Small Innovation With Big Impact - Cylinder Offset

2024 ж. 21 Ақп.
76 590 Рет қаралды

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  • The "famous hudson hornet" has a bit of a story about this... as Smokey Yunick was the mechanic on it.. he wanted to offset the bores like this but they wrote in the rule book "you can not offset bore the cylinders in the block from factory position" so Smokey Yunick offset the crank in the block...😂 and moved the gearbox across aswell... always thinking 1 step ahead of the officials

    @bingysbackyard@bingysbackyard2 ай бұрын
    • That's genius.

      @ARockyRock@ARockyRock2 ай бұрын
  • The very first polytechnic course I did when I became a motorcycle mechanic ( about 40 years ago ) , involved stripping and measuring an old ( already old at that time ) Briggs and Stratton lawn mower engine . Those engines today would be perhaps 60 years old , and they had cylinder offset . I recall that because I had never considered the possibility and was questioning my measurements . I don’t recall the amount , it wasn’t enough to see with the eye , but it was there . I think 1 or 2 mm . Honestly , I’ve always thought it was a normal part of engine design since ( maybe they are pushing that offset further now ) .

    @grantfuller2016@grantfuller20162 ай бұрын
    • It is indeed a normal part of engine design. A small connecting rod angle on TDC keeps the piston held towards one side of the cylinder, which prevents it from rattling in the bore as it changes direction. But that is, as you found out, only a couple of millimeters or so.

      @fredrikbergdahl2988@fredrikbergdahl29882 ай бұрын
  • This "Offset Cylinder Design" was First used by the Rambler Car Company in 1908. Other Designs are an, Offset Connecting Rod, shaped as 'b' or 'd' - where the "circle part" connects to crankshaft-conrod journal - the "Top of vertical line" to piston. The connecting rods (con-rod) used in this Video are standard "I-rods" - centered equally to the con-rod journal and are almost exclusively used in engines. Experiments with "b & d" conrods go back some 50yrs and both were found to create "Piston-dwell" at TDC & BDC, depending on - degrees of offset. Patents for Offset Cylinder and b & d Con-rods have Expired, are now Public Domain.

    @arlynspencer5430@arlynspencer5430Ай бұрын
  • This "désaxé" principle was followed by top-class designers such as Henri Toutée. Hard to say who originated the idea, but it certainly dates back to the early 1900s. My 1934 Chenard et Walcker has slots cut into the lower cylinder areas to accomodate the bias of the connecting rods! The balance problem is probably why the forward face of the flywheel casting includes a hefty annular integral "balance" (?) ring. I was thinking about machining it off, but your timely explanation is making me re-think!

    @paulshubsachs4977@paulshubsachs497728 күн бұрын
  • Small amounts of cylinder offset were originally introduced many decades back to counter piston slap.

    @andrewwmacfadyen6958@andrewwmacfadyen69582 ай бұрын
  • This is known as the desaxe design. It has been used frequently over the decades. The true endorsement of it's advantages would be it's use in racing engine design and offhand I don't know of one, although there must be, given the constant quest for advantage in racing.

    @turboslag@turboslag2 ай бұрын
  • Don’t know if he was the first but smoky Yannick employed these principles in his early days of racing

    @North700@North7002 ай бұрын
  • Some air compressors use the offset for the compression stroke I've found too.

    @gavmansworkshop5624@gavmansworkshop56242 ай бұрын
  • Piston pin offset, pin height, rod length, all things to consider. Thanks for the cool video.

    @cjespers@cjespers2 ай бұрын
  • Changes the mechanical advantage the connecting rod has against the crankshaft in the begining of the power stroke

    @PerpetualMan22@PerpetualMan222 ай бұрын
  • In your animation the connecting rod hits the cylinder wall and the poison exits the cylinder at bdc

    @ColCurtis@ColCurtis27 күн бұрын
  • it has always been there as part of a kinematic analysis! it was waiting to harness

    @alejandroesteves8903@alejandroesteves89032 ай бұрын
  • Great video!

    @richardcasey7521@richardcasey75212 ай бұрын
  • offset piston pin in v motors ! same thing ?

    @chrisjarvis4449@chrisjarvis44492 ай бұрын
  • Every flathead Ford v-8 had it plus offset wrist pins.

    @donrothwell1421@donrothwell1421Ай бұрын
  • We have used longer rods and shorter strokes in the past Over-square allows higher RPM and less piston slap. This is due to the angle of rod and piston is less.

    @SJR_Media_Group@SJR_Media_Group2 ай бұрын
  • How is the connecting rod going through the cylinder

    @camaro92026@camaro92026Ай бұрын
  • In my university this construction was called dezaxial pistons. I learned it 20 years ago. God knows when it was constructed. So its kinda old.

    @edgarasvas@edgarasvas2 ай бұрын
  • Doesn’t this in balance the engine

    @thomaslindell5448@thomaslindell544829 күн бұрын
  • when this offset would gain enough,all the engines would have been build like this,long ago. but buildingcost,to overcome the specific needs for this style engine are probably higher then the gains.

    @73-carina18@73-carina182 ай бұрын
  • So thinking about this, If you had a 90* V12 or 190*boxer engine, with offset cyls, its possible to counterbalance it completely with almost no weights.

    @TravisFabel@TravisFabel2 ай бұрын
    • Can you elaborate ?

      @johnnysodak7261@johnnysodak72612 ай бұрын
  • I have to wonder if you had a boxer engine with both blocks offset would it be balanced.

    @martin-vv9lf@martin-vv9lf2 ай бұрын
    • Same thought! :)

      @Eduardo_Espinoza@Eduardo_Espinoza2 ай бұрын
    • The air cooled vw engine has the pistons offset about 1.5 mm

      @andrewirving3982@andrewirving39822 ай бұрын
  • I have wondered about cylender cant and offset combined. Small amounts. Some of my questions are in the offset what happens with cam timing and duration ramp rates. Then, flame time and piston speed down the cylender. Fuel flame speed. It seems in an offset torque would increase. Cylender cant may also improve Torque. It may also improve piston side load. Just thoughts.

    @Hjfvvdst@Hjfvvdst2 ай бұрын
    • Cylinder....

      @billjenkins3699@billjenkins36992 ай бұрын
  • I think this would be perfect for a boxer or flat engine layout :)

    @Eduardo_Espinoza@Eduardo_Espinoza2 ай бұрын
    • It would be very strange for a boxer. Because of the opposed cylinder layout, in order for both banks to have the correct offset one bank would be raised higher, and the other would be lowered. I feel like that would create problems with assembly and strength, and may make it harder to properly lubricate and cool the motor.

      @yummyhershey5902@yummyhershey59022 ай бұрын
    • I think the offset technology can only be realized with an in line engine.

      @motorradmike@motorradmike2 ай бұрын
    • The fb20 has asymmetric connecting rods

      @bugsmousey9183@bugsmousey91832 ай бұрын
  • Connecting rod failure is almost always attributed to failure of the rod bolt & the rod bolt is under the most stress at TDC at the end of the exhaust stroke & at the beginning of the intake stroke… that’s when rod bolts break & an offset cylinder makes it even worse. Yeah, you might make more power with a severely offset cylinder, but it comes at a cost of reliability.

    @loganshotrod4x464@loganshotrod4x4642 ай бұрын
  • Effects on a two cycle engine such as non symmetrical port timing , increased transfer velocity, effect of a longer stroke mechanical leverage, and a longer power cycle.

    @billygriffin3079@billygriffin30792 ай бұрын
    • Maybe ring catching prevention too = bigger ports :)

      @Eduardo_Espinoza@Eduardo_Espinoza2 ай бұрын
    • Probably an easy mod to the jug if you drill for bigger studs idk about sealing the base

      @matthewfredrickmfkrz1934@matthewfredrickmfkrz19342 ай бұрын
  • In offset engine, It might in turn produce friction during the compression cycle.

    @shaikkareem1637@shaikkareem163727 күн бұрын
  • Cylinder offsets are as old as the 4 stroke engine. And depending on the engines use, can be great, or a huge liability. When off throttle, with high compression ratios, it's not uncommon to break the piston or the rod, or both, with the severe rod angles on the up stroke in off throttle scenarios.

    @shawnmcatee895@shawnmcatee8952 ай бұрын
  • I expected to see more torque as the power stroke happens at a little more leverage from the crank.

    @philkuusisto1558@philkuusisto15582 ай бұрын
  • Yamaha uses offset cylinders in its 4-stroke, single-cylinder motocross bikes, and probably in some other models as well.

    @jiyushugi1085@jiyushugi10852 ай бұрын
    • I thought that was in their outboard motors didnt know their bikes used it

      @B1g_Tarn@B1g_Tarn2 ай бұрын
    • @@B1g_Tarn I do a lot of translating work for Yamaha in Japan but I've only done a few outboard jobs for them. I'm headed over there next week and will ask my contacts there. If they're also using them in the OBs perhaps they're using them in most of their engines.

      @jiyushugi1085@jiyushugi10852 ай бұрын
  • Seems like an off-center flat engine might be easier to balance that a V engine

    @Galatzo@Galatzo2 ай бұрын
  • Toyota in the ‘90’s claimed to have cylinder offset in a concept car, it also had soft valve springs as the engine was designed to not rev past 4000rpm. I remember all this but not the concept car.

    @daddycool889@daddycool8892 ай бұрын
    • Sounds exactly like the Prius engine.

      @samsungtvset3398@samsungtvset33982 ай бұрын
  • The only reason you would do it is to reduce engine height. And you could reduce engine length if you stagger every second piston. Volkswagen VR5 and VR6 engines used it.

    @kennethprocak5176@kennethprocak51762 ай бұрын
  • They have been offsetting the wrist pin for 50yrs or more. Same effect.

    @terrypikaart4394@terrypikaart43942 ай бұрын
    • Yeah , but only by about 1.5 mm .

      @Cobra427Veight@Cobra427Veight2 ай бұрын
    • To counter piston slap.

      @andrewwmacfadyen6958@andrewwmacfadyen69582 ай бұрын
    • Kind of similar, but not entirely the same benefits.

      @countryjoe3551@countryjoe3551Ай бұрын
  • شكرا

    @rhrh48@rhrh482 ай бұрын
  • Could do an offset connecting rod instead of offset cylinders.

    @tedjones-ho2zk@tedjones-ho2zk2 ай бұрын
  • That work on Renault 12 since 1968...

    @voicucristian4800@voicucristian48002 ай бұрын
  • But doesn't side loading and piston slap become and issue during the comp. stroke?

    @fuckingpippaman@fuckingpippaman2 ай бұрын
    • Yep. Especially in high rpm off throttle conditions.

      @shawnmcatee895@shawnmcatee8952 ай бұрын
    • lower pressure around 1/10 during the compression stroke so less side load and piston slap

      @suncitybooksgeraldton335@suncitybooksgeraldton3352 ай бұрын
    • what do you mean by lower pressure?@@suncitybooksgeraldton335

      @fuckingpippaman@fuckingpippamanАй бұрын
  • And I thought that i had a secret in the 1975 with ofset and longer rod converted a steet bike with a two stroke 7o cc engine 5 hp in more than 15 hp

    @lucientjinasjoe1578@lucientjinasjoe1578Ай бұрын
  • Balancing these cylinder offset engines are a hell. Doubt it will be mainstream.

    @abrokenpal@abrokenpal2 ай бұрын
  • Not for 2 stroke?

    @robertbritton4716@robertbritton47162 ай бұрын
    • i was thinking the same

      @fuckingpippaman@fuckingpippaman2 ай бұрын
  • Toyota 2AR-FE has this setup.

    @robjones8733@robjones87332 ай бұрын
  • Norton tried this on their Manx race engines in the 50's and 60's. They couldn't even measure the difference.

    @watchyMCFCwatchy@watchyMCFCwatchy2 ай бұрын
    • "...in the 50s and 60s."

      @JxH@JxH2 ай бұрын
  • Is the VW VR6 engine offset pistons?

    @hotmav@hotmav2 ай бұрын
  • Could this be done in an opposed piston diesel configuration

    @lordvalentine471@lordvalentine4712 ай бұрын
    • Yes. The visual aspect will look a bit odd, but that would have no operational impact.

      @marvinmcconoughey3547@marvinmcconoughey35472 ай бұрын
  • You never mentioned how much the offset is.

    @user-my3ff5lj6m@user-my3ff5lj6m2 ай бұрын
    • Looks like half of a piston ratio

      @Eduardo_Espinoza@Eduardo_Espinoza2 ай бұрын
    • Not a large number of mm.

      @JxH@JxH2 ай бұрын
  • Very easy just make a zick zack 6 cykinder engine and it will be naturally balanced!

    @bizmyurt8582@bizmyurt85822 ай бұрын
  • You referred to the crank *counterweights* as a "balancing shaft".

    @JxH@JxH2 ай бұрын
    • It confused me. I thought the counter weights on the crankshaft were primary (countering the weight of the piston and wrist pin going up and down or side to side in a boxer) and secondary forces were generated by the weight of the big end (essentially being thrown from side to side).

      @yodab.at1746@yodab.at17462 ай бұрын
  • I had thought about this in 1979 but couldn't figure out the implications on balancing...

    @kurtdobson@kurtdobson2 ай бұрын
    • Interestingly enough I thought about it as well once in 1976 then again briefly in the summer of 1981. I had intended to build a totally custom one off V12 engine to test things out but I forgot about it until this very moment thanks to this video. Time to get to work.

      @somenygaard@somenygaard2 ай бұрын
  • Sweet jesus! A 13 min vid on desaxe cylinders but never once mentioning desaxe!

    @beachboardfan9544@beachboardfan95442 ай бұрын
  • no way jose

    @zafar78600@zafar786002 ай бұрын
  • My 1934 Massey Harris tractor engine has offset pistons! This is not new technology.

    @davidk4338@davidk4338Ай бұрын
  • Opposite on the way up

    @Bloodcurling@Bloodcurling2 ай бұрын
  • Has to be more friction on one side

    @tonyfree2691@tonyfree26912 ай бұрын
    • Yes minus the power stroke though

      @Eduardo_Espinoza@Eduardo_Espinoza2 ай бұрын
    • @Eduardo_Espinoza of course ! Eve bettin 2 stroke do you think?

      @tonyfree2691@tonyfree26912 ай бұрын
  • This is so far from new, it's ludicrous. This tech is roughly a century old, SMH!

    @Motor-City-Mike@Motor-City-Mike2 ай бұрын
  • All I have to say is " slant 6"

    @65bug519@65bug5192 ай бұрын
  • Just more rpm and less nm

    @frankd.b.9233@frankd.b.92332 ай бұрын
  • V configuration would look "special"

    @Einimas@Einimas2 ай бұрын
    • Yeah, like a VW VR6

      @wandamaddox7824@wandamaddox78242 ай бұрын
    • @@wandamaddox7824 does only a half of the vr6 has this benefit?

      @Einimas@Einimas2 ай бұрын
    • Good point @Einimas I do remember hearing it had issues with vibrations even though they call it the "compact inline 6"which is very ironic Maybe they can make one side normal instead?

      @Eduardo_Espinoza@Eduardo_Espinoza2 ай бұрын
    • I think it is not offset like this video describes. It's weird in a different way.

      @wandamaddox7824@wandamaddox78242 ай бұрын
    • VR banks are offset opposite of each other

      @garnerblair5179@garnerblair517924 күн бұрын
  • Balance shaft? Please look up that term.

    @SchoolforHackers@SchoolforHackers2 ай бұрын
    • counterweight

      @Abigailrp@Abigailrp2 ай бұрын
    • @@Abigailrp Correct.

      @SchoolforHackers@SchoolforHackers2 ай бұрын
  • This was "innovated" several decades ago. Is this AI generated content ?

    @boardernut@boardernut2 ай бұрын
  • Offset cylinder have bad balance

    @yusuffirdaus3900@yusuffirdaus39002 ай бұрын
  • New??? Not so much.

    @davidwickboldt712@davidwickboldt7122 ай бұрын
  • This is nothing new. Nissan has this in some of there older vehicles with smaller displacement engines.

    @mr.joshua2937@mr.joshua29372 ай бұрын
  • This is one of those ideas that net zero improvement over existing designs. But I'm pretty sure someone will give someone some money.

    @timhallas4275@timhallas42752 ай бұрын
  • This is nothing new....

    @tonywood3660@tonywood36602 ай бұрын
  • Find a better description of an offset engine. This is clearly written by somebody who doesn’t have English as their first language and they’re using artificial voice.

    @gerrydrummond3287@gerrydrummond328716 күн бұрын
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