Beyond All Reason Gameplay Guide & Competitive - Some games from my first real day playing 1v1 in BAR! Warning, not much commentary because im a sweaty tryhard
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Maps: Red Comet Remake, Zed Valley
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Winterstarcraft, Beyond All Reason, RTS
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Ah, there's my BAR video for today.
Yea I was hoping for it too!
I can really see Winter's Star Craft background coming into play here. Super quick and tight micro, and just overall great control. In the larger games it's been easy for me to spot inefficient eco/base management or questionable choices, often feeling I could do better, but if pitted in a 1v1 like this, it's obvious that Winter would destroy me.
Stopped watching a few months ago but these BAR vids brought me back
Same
Loving these BAR videos!
not gonna lie, the amount of eco you destroyed with singular grunts in the first 8 minutes was some impressive micro
And impressively bad response from the opponent. Like, damn; it's not THAT hard to intercept xD
T1 bots seem a touch OP, they're like zerglings, and without ramps and chokes it turns into lingbane spam without the banes...
@@catbert7 you will notice that winter was always making sure to attack along another axis at the same time. I noticed the defender getting seemingly distracted.
@@atrtsh Tier 1 needs that kind of power to stay relevant - Edit : i mean im sure it can be tweaked a bit, but in general i think tier 1 always needs the ability to scare the opponent with swarms, no matter what stage of game
I will say these 1v1 matches makes the game more digestible to view and understand what’s going on than the large scale matches. At least for someone that’s somewhat interested in getting into it.
For sure
It's ftp! Download and play vs bots!
Keep the BAR videos coming, thiss is an amazing game.
The flanking by blue at 45:00 was amazing, he baited wintr into attacking and then hammered hs troops. This is exactly what I like about this type of game.
Another thing to keep in mind that flanking units do more damage depending on how far the attack angle is, up to 180 degrees
Been really enjoying the BAR gameplay, Winter. I do love SC2, but it's very refreshing.
This map has so many builds, once you get in the higher levels of skill you will realize the enormity of builds on this map.
Joined BAR about a month ago, love the new interest from Winter, and also although it isn't anywhere near as polished nor refined as SC2 gameplay, I do see the hints and strategies being reimplemented, tried and tested in BAR... I basically had to re-learn how to play RTS going from SC2 to this game, but I can see how you were able to transfer most of your skills and strategy. Nice
Goopy is technically 3-4th best player. The top 2 are Raghna and Governor touche. Rag and cartouche are ridiculously good, but they only show up once in a while or in important events
Old zero K hand here Fight/Attack move is almost all important in these The amount of efficient fighting that happens when using fight is crazy In SC2 terms, It's the difference between attack moving and then normal moving marines, and move commanding them right into the enemy. Exceptions being artiliary and bombers I adore that you're on these games, they're some of my favourite RTS's ever after total annihilation
watching him cancel his third mex without knowing it and play the whole game with only 2 base mexs was tough
lets make BAR the most popular RTS
I agree on your decision to spam grunts. The maps are so small and grunts are so fast and versatile, maneuvering for local superiority almost always triumphs something more top heavy.
What might solve the T1 only in 1v1s, is playing less open maps.
Build Scout planes along your bomber squadron to see way more or even take a hit for the bombers
Keep going my man, I love watching your reaction time. You might even want to play one single game before you sleep so hopefully your brain will process the scenario s of your game.
Good wins, and kudos for playing Core.
That one raiding bot in the first game took out like ALL the eco =O 37:00: This was an instructive battle. They both had the same type and number of units but Winter lost 5 to Forged's 2, presumably due to line of sight issues from lack of formation.
you know what would be really fucking cool? a unit tierlist!! i know it's really early for that prolly, but i'd really fancy my tierlist!
NICE
that bomber probably needed to go home to restock
Really been ejoying BAR content. Very cool !
ty
nice
have you tried playing through the scenarios? they can be pretty fun (just ignore first two since they're pretty much tutorial stuff)
Winter, would be nice to have some more indepth game mechanics video, like auto grouping, issuing commands to the unit from the factory like patrol etc, and such
What playlist is playing? I love the music, and know it isnt the ingame BAR music, is it on spotify or something?
It's the in game music, I think winter has the little playlist widget disabled from being in the bottom right.
these are company of heroes 2 themes...
In TA the bombers needed enough speed to drop bombs, so you couldn't just stay stationary and drop. Maybe its the same balance in BAR.
BGH ftw! Remember that and feel old!
Question: Is walking the com early really worth giving up that 300 build power? I know construction turrets are a thing, but surely that boost to early aggression is worth more than getting mexes 5 seconda earlier
well you simply dont have enough resources on most maps to truly utilize that much build power. Also on maps with a lot of obstacles the com can essentially block almost the entire front line when backed up by units/rezzers to defend and repair it nothging can go through.
Use it to get out a engi then walk or something. Don't leave factories alone, they suck without help
Commander being on the front line is vital to early defense and aggression. Fast tower build and expansion, repair for units, D Gun punish.
@@DigitalHawk96 dgun is good, but why not just make more that twice the amount of units your walking opponent can and walk around them?
@@AidanNaut0 turrets are, pound for pound, more cost effective with better stats, being able to pump out front-line defenses with your commander is vital to your ability to expand the turrets will deal with comparable amounts of units, D Gun for if your opponent rushes a small number of chonkers
what button to press to make the square building in stead of just the line I make the lines but can never do the multiple
I wonder if there are SC pros who are getting into BAR too
ZLO and TAG_Rock play BAR. ZLO is actually a very good player already
Moarrr BARrrrr!
due to units not firing through each other, formations actually play a role in this game. with what youve got if you add the control on the shaping and surface area of your units when fighting youll be unstoppable!
37:00 showcased that quite nicely.
Do they not fire through each other? They did in TA, and I remember it being a point of controversy when Spring implemented the "no firing through each other" thing. Some Spring games had reverted to the TA model which makes massed rockets extremely powerful.
@@isitanos there are units that can at times and units that cant, but most of the time a unit behind another cannot shoot. clumping units is bad. one unit i found is not too bad with this is the medium assault tanks, they fire from behind another unless the turret of the one in front is in the way.,
What’s up with not putting the metal extractor in the center? I’ve tried to look it up but can’t find an answer.
It doesn't *need* to be at the center to mine, and you can save a few seconds by minimizing how far your commander has to move.
I really really want to make an air open work with this, but I cant see how I could
Why don't people build a factory first? Wouldn't it be worth it for the build power?
1:04:55 no gold base my friend ^^, I mean no geo :P
Hold up, how did you rotate the bot lab like that?! I had no idea that was a thing.
The bracket keys, to the right of P
Need scouts with the bombers
I wonder when Winter will discover the power of the shuriken in 1v1
Shuriken?
@@calebwilliams586 Yes, the T1 light paralyzing drone. Winter kept making T1 bombers in his match against Forged1212 after his initial bombing run, and continued to bomb his army, however, the bombers are very expensive and don't do great damage at all against army. T1 bomber for Cortex costs 150 metal, 4600 energy. The Shuriken costs 48 metal and 1300 energy, so about 1/3rd the cost of a bomber. That means, if you have 5 bombers, you could instead have had 15 shurikens. What they do is paralyze units which they attack. If you have 15 shurikens supporting a ground army this is extremely strong for people who went air early. Those 15 shurikens will paralyze 15 enemy T1 ground units approximately. That could be 15 medium tanks which are unable to shoot or do anything at all, only sit there and get shot by your own units. If in his match against Forged1212 Winter had build Shuriken's instead of continued building bombers and throwing them away uselessly against Forged1212's army, his final push where he lost all his Thugs to his opponents army in the middle would have turned out very differently, and likely he would have won that fight since he would have had something like 15 shuriken's instead of useless 150 metal bombers which died before even doing a single pass over the enemy army.
@@luka188 interesting. Do the shurikens dodge anti air better or something?
@@calebwilliams586 They don't, against anti air they are basically paper planes (All planes are, except flying fortresses) but obviously stunning your enemy units is far more effective than doing negligible damage with ineffective bombers. You could see the bombers did very little damage against the enemy army, while a unit that is stunned can't do anything, so if you have like 20 Thugs and your opponent has 30+ units, most of them medium tanks (The strongest T1 unit pound for pound), and you have 10 shurikens which will stun the tanks while you move in your units (Same cost as ~3 bombers), the tanks wont be able to do any damage while you can effectively dispatch them. Stunning a 200 metal unit with a 50 metal unit is very effective in early fights. For example, a pawn and a shuriken can beat a thug very easily, while they cost less metal. While if you try to use pawns vs thugs, even 3 pawns are likely to lose to 1 thug due to the unit match up. Watch some replays by more advanced players, you'll see in 1v1 quite effective use of Shuriken's regularly by the player who went air if anyone does.
28:20 lol
Couldn't you just walk into their base with commander early on and D gun their comm?
Edit: I asked the discord. In 1v1 you die if you D gun the commander and unlike team games, the commander who didn’t D gun lives. Therefore if you D gun the other commander you lose the game. Yes and here’s how it would go. Due to D Gun range, when a commander D Guns a commander they both die no matter what(one from D Gun, the other from Comm explosion). So in an 1v1 I don’t actually know who wins but maybe the guy who shot?
@K Geo I tried in custom vs a bot. He survived with 1/3rd hp and I died instead. I think it might be hard coded
I love the game, but it's sad to see the multiplayer meta getting stuck at low levels - 90% of the time especially with low player counts. "Only Zerg rush" :)
Tanks are better at flat maps are they not?
yes
Also more closed off maps. Reason being, some terrain can be bypassed by bots but not all. A Frontline of vehicles vs bots the vehicles usually win
Yes, but, it's important to note Vehicle's cost more metal, both in total and also per tick, and this map has unusable wind and your starting position only has 2 mex's, which makes vehicles not really viable to start with, since you need to spend more metal here than on other maps due to having to build solar instead of being able to use wind, and you have less metal available to start with. Higher level players would likely start bots and then transition to vehicles after the early stage and getting some basic expansion to where they have enough metal income to support the vehicles.
@@luka188 Vehicles are not only viable but for starting players it's meta on that map.
1v1 Masterbel when :)
Whenever he wants :)
To sweeten the deal, if I win, I offer to review the game with him!
@@MasterBel2 sheeeeeeeesh
Quite uneven matches. I think they should balance better their matching mechanism.
play against 30-40 ts players :)
Would love to see some Supreme commander Forged Alliance Forever on here!
I've tried playing FaF after I've played Bar. It's not bad, but it makes me want to go back to BAR.
@@krux02 wait so you would say BAR is better?
Unless you're into the Com Upgrades, BAR is pretty much just an upgrade to SupCom. What I would like to see is some Planetary Annihilation. THAT is definitely different, super cool, and criminally underrated.
i wanna like this game but its just dots from too high up and looks unimpressive you cant see any of the action! its like spreadsheet simulator
If there is only one build - how is this game EPIC?
Don't get me wrong I like you approach and effort to show something different and I'll bet this game is loads of fun BUT to be honest a cast looks on screen not that attractive because all is very small not to say tiny and the movement and action are looking very slow or ponderously. Its more the big picture and I miss the details and cinematic action. I'll guess its a different feeling when you play it yourself. Just my 2 cents. What about "Iron Harvest" casts?
He hasn't done a cast of BAR yet, other than a minute at the end of one of his 8v8 games. A cast would be where he could get the cinematic perspective you want, and it does look sick. How fast it looks depends on how close you zoom. There are plenty of people casting BAR games that you can check out. Also PA and SupCom. They get quite epic, like Winter's 4v4, with all the Nukes flying.
Wait this game is FREE for now? MTX? What's the deal? (After searching....) OPEN SOURCE? WHAAAAAAAAAA??????? Open source RTS... this could murder the market with something amazing. One can hope. Imagine the programming talent this will attract. Right now, to me, it looks like an absolute APM fest, which means it's not for me. I like strategy games but this level of micro... Goopy is currently #2 on Duel.
Wait what? This game is probably one of the RTS with the least micro. It has a ton of conveniences like area commands where most RTS would have you click stuff individually.
why does he spam movement so much i dont see the point
I hate that map. It is open from everywhere
Cold you switch off music next time ? Your vids and cooments are great but I prefer my music. Thx.
For such a micro intensive game, the unit control is frustratingly clunky.
?? You mean the bombers? They work fine as long as you don't give them new orders every half a second, while they're in the middle of lining up the last bombing run you gave them.
Hearing this game called "micro-intensive" is hilarious. Keep them coming.
request to disable in-game music. I beleive a lot of people watch your brilliant gameplays in 1.5x speed. music is broken :(