Why Narcissist Hates Good Partners: Sado-maso "Love" (plus Mood Disorders)
WATCH Narcissist’s Betrayal Fantasy: Painful Mommy Separation • Narcissist’s Betrayal ...
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Narcissist's "love" is sado-masochistic because of early childhood conditioning to associate love with betrayal, withdrawal, avoidance, hurt, and frustration-aggression.
In childhood, the aggression is internalized. Hence the masochism.
The narcissist needs to coerce the partner to hurt him within the fantasy framework role of her maternal reenactment. Hence the abuse (projective identification and reaction formation).
The narcissist's sadism is self-punitive and anticipatory: it engenders the very masochistic pleasure of being punished and agonized. This is sadistic supply.
The partner's compliant submissiveness or refusal to engage in her assigned role is perceived as a passive-aggressive denial of gratification and leads to the escalation of abusive sadism.
Submissiveness also leads to escalation owing to growing tolerance and desensitization.
A reactively abusive (or plain abusive or predatory) partner is perceived as maternally loving and caring. This ameliorates the narcissist's abuse but creates abandonment anxiety and infantile (regressive) dependency on masochistic supply.
So, the narcissist is in one of two states in the shared fantasy: sado-masochistically gratified by a punitive mother figure - or sado-masochistically frustrated by a truly loving mature partner.
The former leads to attachment, cathexis, and dependency and then to attempted separation-individuation from the maternal figure via devaluation and discard.
The latter leads to sadistic and coercive narcissistic abuse and a power play. The narcissist must have his way or annihilate the frustrating object.
MOOD DISORDERS
Mood disorders exist when the changes in mood are not secondary, not mediated via a cognitive distortion, such as grandiosity or catastrophizing.
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Sam Vatkin told no lies. When I was kind and submissive, it made him more angry, filled with so much contempt. When I tapped into my evil dark side, he bought me a car.
Vaknin.
Whoa
same here.
Reminds me of the things I have read in Jungian literature regarding the interplay between the Anima and Animus and the proximity of that psychological structure to the Shadow. Men and women who have within them undigested/primitive psychological attributes/ideas of the opposite sex are drawn to the dark and destructive version of the feminine or masculine.
Can you please expand on this my friend@@IlIlllIIllII
They ẹnjoy quarrelling, fighting, ... Good people bore them immensely.
You are confusing narcissists with drama queen borderlines.
A normal person can not survive in that crazy environment Either you end crazy or an abuser too
I agree that is sadistic. They can push the most calm and happy go luck partner into a state of madness and if you fail to fulfill that fantasy that every person is out get him/her it will be punishment for being “weak.” these people live in a state of jealousy of partners that are not like them!
There was always a smirk and pleasure on his face when I was upset with him. He enjoyed when I was angry.he loved chaos thank God then divorce is almost done.
Omg I can’t stand ppl like that my x was the same way whenever he seen me happy playing video games he would purposely say something to put me in a bad mood and ruin my day to the point where I told him not to be at my house when I got off work so that I can relax and be happy.
Exactly what happened to me too. I only caught him twice in 30 years... After getting me all riled up he turned around with a big poop eating grin 😁 on his face 👀. And my divorce is about finalize too!!! When it is I'm going to do some kind of celebrating 🥳. Glad I don't drink anymore😊 Blessings to you in your recovery from the PTSD that this abuse creates in their victims. ❤️🩹🙏❤️🩹
Same 🙄
Same. Only caught the shit eating grin once, when i has lost my cool and she got the reaction she wanted. Otherwise it was just attempts at control of my mood by building me up to bring me down.
Yes, after my ex husband at the time ghosted me and asked to see our daughter after ghosting me and during the visit when I had my back turned towards him and turned back around I saw him with a weird smirk on his face. Just ridiculous and sick!
I always suspected that “my narcissist” just took it out on the whole world for the pain it had experienced as a child…and listening to you, Professor, I more and more feel that all narcissists are eternal children revenging upon the world for the pain they experienced in childhood and that never go away….really very unhappy and poor people.
😢
So true...
Yes ..that's why I feel compassion for my narc ..which I shouldn't feel I guess, cause it opens him the door again and again 😢
@@claudiae7473 Yes, that’s the point: we should realize that they suffer, but we should not feel responsible for this suffering…the only person in the world who should deal with it is their mother, so let’s leave them alone with each other, what do we have to do with it?
@@user-dp1dj9or4e you are exactly right!
Wow. This explains everything I experienced perfectly. I used to always feel like he hated me the most when I was being the nicest to him. I told him I was trying to be a good person and he would always say, “trying means nothing.” I also felt like he was constantly pushing me so that I would react negatively to him. He even went as far as to randomly bring up a bad memory between us during a fun and happy moment and it would always start an argument. It was like he had to ruin all good moments. He once compared me to his mom and he told me he hated his mom. I asked him why he would want to be with someone who reminded him of his mom if he hated her so much and he could never answer that question. I ended things with him and he continued to hoover but I keep my distance, too much torture and I cant take that. It’s so sad that someone is only comfortable with abuse and chaos so they will create it. It’s a terrible life to have to live.
I also told my ex the same thing, if I am all of those disgusting things you call me why do you even want to be with me? This was after I moved out. He called crying apologizing, the very next day couldn't stop himself from calling me a whore. Because I wore a tank top. In TEXAS where it's over 100 outside! What you said is right, it is a terrible life to live.
My heart sank reading this…… “trying means nothing” over and over and over I would hear this, never could please even when I was “trying” so hard
Wow.thanks so much- you helped me. I met a guy online dating & it was so so; like I'd been sucked dry by a vampire. & that was without even meeting him!! I thought I was used to all narcissists do as an ACON. BUT his lovebombing was so so rapid + a heady concoction of Victim (him).
Now I understand how he turned on me When I wasn't as compliant & submissive to his hints at sex/ & grooming me online. When I told him I couldn't have sex before marriage; as a Christian; it was like I was at war with him suddenly. I changed in the brief whirlwind online dating "romance"(??) & he lost control. He became vile towards me. He then said; he'd erase all we'd written back & forth. He had to have the last say always. I no longer speak to him. He even said he Hated my lectures( ? What?) & I saw him as a "lost sheep"! Maybe I did.
Familiar..
Their brains are totally twisted so please just let them be and love yourself first before anyone else. You only have you no matter what you do it will never be enough for a NARC. You can do everything for them and still, you will never be good in their eyes cause they are just empty hollow souls inside.
Yes! And NO ONE is good for them, NOT ONE! To think of all the decent cute women my ex-husband engaged, it's just pathetic. They go on to have really great marriages, and I hope to find a decent man one day too! Love yourself you are right!!
And so boring to b honest. When it isn't about them there's nothing
@@kimberlyfloyd1009that’s is my mother too
That explains why my ex covert narc discarded me for a woman who's the one wearing the trousers in the relationship. A friend observed their dynamics and commented that it looks like she's mothering him like a strict mother would and, as she does, he keeps quiet as a scolded child.
My narcissist told me many times that he felt like he could tell me anything and I wouldn’t fly off the handle. I thought that was a compliment at the time. He then started to try to trigger me. He said 2 out of every 10 interactions with your partner should be negative, otherwise it means you don’t care. I thought it was the strangest thing I’d ever heard. We lasted 7 weeks.
@@brosephbroheim6428 no, I didn’t get the sense it was about superstition. Looking back it seemed like a warning…he knew it would get ugly when he started to devalue me, and it did. I think he was planting a seed, basically saying it would be a good sign when we started to have issues and argue. What a strange group of people. What a horrible life. I hate that I still feel for him, and wish he could be different for his own benefit. What an empty life. It’s so sad.
Another lecture that resonates and makes me reflect on the moment when I refused to abuse my ex narcissist. He even said out loud "Wow, we didn't have a single fight for the past 5 months?" At that time I had no clue who he really was, and I thought he wanted say how successful we were and that it was a good thing. Now I see he wanted to point out the lack of chaos and abuse! Shortly after he moved on from passive aggressive comments to emotional abuse and triangulation. I was shocked when my friends told me he posted another woman on his social media. I felt very strongly his intent to stab me in the heart and push me to do something similar. He succeeded to hurt me, but thankfully I could ignore his actions and run. I just lost all respect for him and never wanted to come back. His attempt failed and he deleted his profile, out of shame I assume. It's been a year or more since then and I feel so grateful that I came across this channel, learned about this phenomenon, and now I'm able to work on myself with Sam's gold advice.
@@LilyRose-fp4zw that is truly how I felt. After the anger of betrayal passed and when I learned what is happening to him, connecting the dots from his childhood to present moment I couldn't be angry or hurt anymore. I felt sad that he has to suffer like that, my pain is easier to deal with than his. He taught me an incredibly valuable lesson for looking out for the same behavior in the future, so it wasn't that big of a waste.
Dear Prof. Vaknin, your video’s are very detailed and useful. I lived many years with a “classic” narcissist. In the 80ies and early 90ies. I had some time to reflect on all that and other PDS. I would agree on a lot but have 2 observations. There were no obvious signs that there was a problem with his mother/parent. I really think she was a good enough mother. There must be other factors that create the desease, like genetics? I think you are often describing psychopathy but call it narcissism. Finally narcissism and psychopathy are one spectrum from grey to the darkest black. You call yourself a malignant narcissist, which is actually a psychopath, or a narcissistic psychopath. I do not see you as a narcissist. You are behaving and performing highly and effectively, and it puzzled me. Your video’s are the living evidence of that. So if any PD applies to you, I would go for highly performing and highly intelligent psychopath. My narcissist finally got noticed by a female psychopath who was desperately looking for a pray with money. She was not young. She was low educated, low job, not pretty, malformed but otherwise decadent, amoral and very highly sexually provocative to the point of touching men. She spent all her money and time on make-up, nails, tan and new very inappropriate provocative clothes. This was in an international scientific environment where she became a secretary after sleeping with her boss her way up. She was despicable and everyone knew that. Especially men and including my man. I was working there too as a scientist and knew the situation. I was the good partner to him all that time. I was the exact opposite of that secretary. She hooked on to him and showed him around as her pray. I am sure he took her because she was worth nothing. But it turned out very differently. Two later she married his salary. He wrote his properties (including my money) on her name only. Disinherited my children. All this when she was pregnant of the only child. When the gold digger had all his properties on her name, she was officially declared “handicapped” after a mysterious accident with a ball in the garden and a corrupt MD, and did not work a day anymore in her life. She was only 40 then. She was a full blown parasite, golddigger and psychopath. He lost everything. His trips now was bringing her to the hairdresser by car, to the nail shop, etc. He became her personal taxi driver. I think she used her illness as a reason for a sexless life. Finally she was only handicapped to make him work and also fully pay for her. I would appreciate your views on the above points. Thank you and best regards.
@@lievevancamp1548d
But why doesn't the narcissist go for a punitive partner in the first place? Why all trouble in having to coerce a loving partner into a punitive one?
This topic isn’t boring this is life saving information
Basically narcissists hates stability in relationship
They can't support for so lomg because they just pretend to love. Actually what they feel is something else like toxic attachment
@@alexsky104 they don't want love because they don't understand love that's the whole game 🤔 Narcissists feed on your vulnerability but mentally healthy partner see your vulnerability as your human flaw...
Self sabotage
Exactly! I was unfortunate enough to fall in love with someone that I’ve been friends with for 9 years.For that he has made me pay dearly by making me his emotional porta potty and is rejecting me and making public knowledge of it. I have suspected that he is a covert narcissist for awhile now, but I don’t want to believe it. My therapist said “This guy screams narcissist to me.” 😂I said, “no, it’s not his fault. He’s had a lot of trauma in his life.” Ok, well, whatever the case I can’t allow myself to be treated like that and I’m just going to have to get over it. It sucks because I still want to be friends, but whenever we hang out we have such a connection that I won’t be able to get over him, and he will love that.😂
I wish they taught this in school back when I was a kid. Ive said this for years, me being easy prey to the narcissist. Thanks for your work Prof. Sam 👍
I have sad this for 3 years, that some people create their own depression, because of their thinking, or their cognitive distortions. For instance, a covert narcissist with self-entitlement will feel “hurt” or “abused” when they are confronted with boundaries from others. It is the narcissist’s own skewed thinking that causes their “depression, which was (allegedly) sourced by the non-existent victimization they experienced.
When I first started dating the narcissist he would say your too “friendly” don’t speak to anyone your too goofy be serious for once…. Later down he would say I’m a mean person & nobody wants to be around me
It must be why the narcissist I dealt with didn't hoover. It makes sense. I was very kind and understanding towards him despite his lies and betrayal. Hatred feel horrible. I didn't want to engage in abuse. I can't imagine what would have happened if I had kept him around long-term. He didn't destroy me, but I certainly had to take some much needed rest and self-care time. Healing takes time no matter the length of a relationship. Very insightful information as always.
I'm in the thick of it - right between the devaluation/ discard phase, which is one of huge pain. His smirk when he sees my hurt is very telling. All value is gone. His life is full of less than one year 'relationships' so I am right on schedule
Please leave now you change everything and take your power back I walked away from mine ❤
He will try to get you back a fucking million times even if jusst as a friend and will keep on abusing u as a friend... once you decide to leave block and delete him everywhere nd go somewhere he cant find u
Stay gone...10 years in & same shit
Sounds exactly like the ex I dated. Hated both of his parents and spent the whole time we dated steering all conversations to his life long grudges against his parents, his ex wife he divorced 18 years ago,and all other women he dated briefly. I just became another woman to idealize, love bomb, devalue, and project his punishment and blame onto for his life long grievances against the women in his past, and those that hurt , mortified,or slighted him sabotaging any chances for a loving healthy relationship.
I’m devaluing my ex narc when he reaches out to me - weirdly I feel he re-valuing me as a result lol. I’m not in any denial though that if I was to show him love and respect, I would be devalued again. Weirdo.
He used to tell me that he loved my meanness
i once told him that I'm not his mom. i had no idea how on the nose i was with saying that considering this scheme that's actually playing out
Interesting how everything that is wrong with us as people come back to our parents. His mother was so toxic and selfish, and the golden child thing should have clued me in better, but you can't know what you DO NOT know! That's ok he can hate my guts forever. I will never be sorry for being a kind loving person who wanted to heal those parts of him that were so broken. Only God can do that now! I'm out.
Yes they hate the said of us that is good 👍 and 🥰 they see it as a weakness
@@andresandres1666 maybe, and he wanted a nice nurturing non icy mother.
My narcissist would often mention feeling "trapped"... I see, now, it's because I was a "good mother" and continued loving him unconditionally. Although he cheated on me with his ex the entire 3 years we were together. I always held on to "hope". Thank you, Professor Vaknin. Since watching your videos and lectures, I recently deleted him from social media and am trying my damndest to go no contact.
Bad habits are best replaced with good habits...Take a leap of faith...into a totally new you...set yourself free...to not look back. {Volunteering is a great escape from patterns of thought💖🕊️🌱🎯
I'm.so sorry you went through this! My narc ex would say the same - how did you know he was cheating on you with his ex??
I’m so happy for you. Be happy for yourself
Go no contact for eternity. There is nothing good that will come of having a narcissist in your life at all. If I can do it. So can you…
Why the need to own the narcissist? ‘MY’ narcissist? Why ?
Wow! This is scary if you are the type of person that is very loving.
I had pretty severe depression as a child. Both my parent's treated me rather poorly and would become very aggressive if I asked them to treat me with more respect / kindness. If I expressed anger at them they would explode into a rage so I completely disassociated myself from my anger. Your explanation that depression is anger directed inward makes a huge amount of sense. When I became angry I would hit myself to relieve the stress.
Please seek therapy. I hope everything works out for you ❤
Now I understand why he had nothing but contempt for me, whilst I was only trying to help him. Thank you Sam
As a borderline i also feel love is connected to pain ..throughout my life relationships felt like i only lived when feeling pain
I am shocked and overwhelmed by this lecture, I thought after ten months of research what these people are all about, but what Sam said, just shook me to the chore. I am on the healing path, whilst my husband, the narc, has moved in with my friend, also narc. So this is where he belongs, this is all really sick and twisted, I really don't want to bump into them. After everything I have done for him and his kids, he just took advantage of me, walked all over me!! He has damaged me and my daughter, and are now living in my little town, with my friend. Two narcs happily ever after, how sick😢
Same here but my neighbor who he got pregnant! It’s a match Made in hell and the next thing to do is totally remove yourself from the equation because if misery loves company for those two devils the more the merrier.
It is their version of temporary happily ever after though…it was never your definition so don’t waste any energy on envying that which caused you such harm. Good riddance. You will always be on top 👍🏼
Thats like constant stress. Energy from hell. I tried to manipulate narcissist but I got tired very quickly. I can't live like this giving so much of negativity.
This is how he reacted when I withdrew. Physical emotional economical abuses.Self destructive they are , but they never let one live in peace. Peace and happiness are what they hate, they force you into separation.He tried to hit me and kill me several times before separating.
I am starting to realize... That my childhood.. it conditioned me to view pain and instability.. I think it's love. And I've been seeking out more abuse ever since I was a teenager and got married to abusive husband #1
I have forever felt unlovable, ashamed and I sought out pain In romantic partners. I'm in my 30s now and I literally just look for it now. It's self destruction via someone else , mostly romantic partners
Am I the f***ing narcissist
Same happened to me, my mom was narcisstic but we made amends towards the end and I also married a very abusive partner and actually I felt forced in the marriage, sorry you 2 had to experience that.
@@JenniferNewLife144 💜
@@JenniferNewLife144 I'm sorry for what you went through also.
This is so eye opening! I lived it and can confirm it is true. I was in 13 yr marriage to such narcissist and since I am a strong push back type of person, and although I am empathic, I always “kept him under my shoe/ in his place”, I pushed back hard, literally abused him reactively and for 13 years his place was “under my shoe”. Then unexpectedly I was pregnant and he was elated, because he was begging to have a child for years but I always said no. So I gave birth, after 13 years of marriage, and as new exhausted sleep deprived mother I had no energy to fight him back. For the next 5 years the attrocities he did to me, sensing I was now weak and not willing to fight in front of the child, he became so sadistic and abusive that I had to engage police, lawyers, doctors , child social services etc. And while I was beyond devastated to see this aggressive war, he was on cloud nine, happiest ever. It is interesting how dynamic shifted: 13 yrs I was in charge and once I stopped fighting back because of baby he became gradually more and more abusive to the point of being dangerous, unhinged wild animal, the horrors he put my family through for next 5 years are indescribable. He had his consequences i.e. police which made him “happy” and then final consequence the divorce and kicking him out of the family house. Once the whole dance was over, after police, lawyers, divorce and all, guess what, I suddenly became good enough again because I fought back, so now he is hoovering me back, because I now dance the dance of pushback. Ps. I hate my late mother in law because of her lazy parenting she crested this monster. I hate him too even more. I can’t get rid of him I swear. The older my child gets the more energy I have to fight this monster and the more attractive I become in his eyes. I hate that I ever met him. Your videos are extremely helpful and fantastically explanatory and very much eye opening. Thank you.
You are really spilling the tea. How silly of me to think i could "heal" this person from his mother wounds. And howany times did i feel my love was being tested amd i refused to become demonic. Crazy how this relationship opened my heart and revealed a capacity for love i never knew i had. The silver lining was that i knew i has a capacity to love unconditionally instead of hate. As the game played on, i finally woke up. Thank God, i healed and am free.
This is an absolutely amazing lecture and validates everything my intuition was telling me about what this person wanted me to become and punished me for refusing that role he wanted to assign to me
Fascinating ! Here I was, on my own, trying to crack the code on what he could be thinking !! No one can comprehend these entities on their own and their twisted ways of thinking/being/operating. Thank you for helping us understand this condition so clearly. This information is priceless. It all makes sense now. Just wow
Yes, it all makes sense now.
Such a complicated inflection.... Imposible to live safely with such person with these inflections. Is it generational?
My stomach was churning while listening, but I appreciate this valuable information.
The way this just cleared my mind up about past relationships. This is just plain ol' Genius, Professor Vaknin. Thank you.
You were the first person I watched when I finally figured out what my then husband was. I'd never heard of the word NARCISSIST. When I began to read about narcissism it was as if someone had been spying on me for the last 18 years of my life. There were so many ah-hah moments, so many.
Throughout our 34 yr marriage, I thought I observed so much of this but.. it didnt add up..right?? My intuition told me so much that I dismissed as my own ridiculousness.. I thought, well no, that cant be.. But, how many times I thought, 'Hes not happy unless hes miserable' and then 'no, hes happy when Im miserable'. It appeared that I really frustrated him when I tried to solve/mitigate his complaints about me- but..( that doesnt make sense, right?) His body language and words rarely matched. He acted/looked like someone who held me in great contempt but his words were opposite..or vice versa. In the last years I began to (imagine?) that I had 'robbed' him of the whole package of his vision of the poor misunderstood but ever faithful public servant law enforcement officer persona- I failed to catch on that he really wanted me to leave/divorce him so he could have the whole package.( The divorce rate is very high in the law enforcement community) I deprived him of Realizing his fantasy of being a John Wayne movie character. Dopey me, I thought I was supposed to try and work on our marriage and our differences. The idea that I was his enemy because i wouldn't finally have enough and leave seemed like crazy angry thinking on my part.. I remember the moment i let myself realize that he would not be 'happy' until I was 'dead'. I wrapped up the last tiny still slightly warm ember of 'me' and resolved to protect it and perhaps resuscitate what was left of my 'fire'. I separated emotionally from him that moment - never told him but he knew. He died of cancer 3 yrs later. I have carried a deep burden for several years wondering if I killed him- by cutting off his supply- (a term i had not yet heard). I suspected, but now I know, there was nothing else I could have done. If I had left him, I would have damaged our children. If I had been hateful toward him, he would have been the victim and I the aggressor, and damaged our children. As he was a well known and admired pillar of our community, no one would have known or understood why I left, and it would have aliented me from our families, community, friends and our children. Your videos have snapped into place the missing puzzle pieces- I can, at last, know I did all I could and finally, put this in its box, shelve it and step forward. Thank you.
One video and suddenly EVERYTHING makes sense! I’ve been searching for an explanation about what happened for months. I could see that he was a narcissist, but couldn’t understand what caused him to escalate and escalate and escalate. Long ago, in my attempts to save the marriage I amped up the love and compassion, learnt relationship skills and practiced them religiously. Love begets love, right? No, wrong! In the end I was literally dying by the hand of his constant emotional abuse. It doesn’t ease the pain, but at least now I understand… Thank you for sharing your amazing insight, Prof Vaknin.
My ex would brutalize me physically and verbally and if I cried, which I often did, he would imitate me crying and tell me to go cry somewhere else and walk away.
That's disgusting... why did you even stay with someone like that?
@@jorgesousa6683 you accept the love you think you deserve
Hi I’m a narc, I don’t want to experience this anymore, I don’t want them to punish me
There is no one there, only him in a complex with his mother....Doesn't it remind you of the movie Psycho?! Beyond that we are all supporting players if at all
24:35 my X Narc was always married to his Magnigalant mother , she objectified him and dangelled the golden Carret $$$$$$$ it 's all it was about. I was the slave , 18 yrs of my wages , to his $1200 drug habit a month.. So he didn't work much of this union ,, kept a bank account with mommy in EU .. And stool 140K , internet banking on my way out.. I'm done.. Exhausted .
This is the best video I've ever seen on the dynamics of a relationship with narcissist. This was exactly my experience with my narcissistic ex.
Thank G-d my narcissist died. It was either him or me.
This explains why so many situations left me feeling like she was trying to get me to hit her, call her names etc... it really felt like the more kind and forgiving i was to her the more she hated me and treated me with contempt.
I've never heard it explained in quite this depth, but I feel like I always intuitively knew that something like this was going on with the narcissist I was dealing with in my life. If your overall goal is to keep things peaceful and to avoid fights, there's 0 chance of achieving your goal. They're either mad at you for fighting with them or they're mad at you for NOT fighting with them. They would seem to provoke me, and I would try my hardest not to react (because they were incapable of listening or understanding anyway) but it seemed that the calmer I was, the more confrontational they would get. Or, they would go the other direction and pretend to be "sad" and "miss me" if I gave them space after they were clearly annoyed or irritated by me - all because they wanted to pull me back in to their orbit for another chance to fight with me. Then if I would ever react, even in the TINIEST way like simply asking them if something was bothering them, they would launch into a tirade, telling me how terrible I was, and then they would start giving me the silent treatment. They would pretend like any small insignificant thing I said or did was proof that I was completely the reason for our turmoil. They had already arrived at this conclusion in their minds beforehand, so they would work backwards and exaggerate about something I did. "Well you asked me if something was wrong, so THAT is why I'm mad at you!" After a while, it became pretty obvious what was going on and what their thought process was like: "I want to fight, but I want YOU to be the CAUSE of the fight. So I'm going to be mad at you if you fight with me but I'm also going to be mad at you if you don't give me the satisfaction of being able to blame you for the fight." So again, if your goal was to make peace and get along, you were going to fail no matter what move you made. And because they lack all self-awareness, it's not like you can talk to them about this. You can't just say "I think you like fighting" because they will just take it as another insult and use it as more justification to tear you down and blame you for "attacking" them.
He was abusing me for so long. I decided to stay because I wished he is going to change. I also wanted to have a family. He was treating me so terrible. I have told him so many time, I am going to leave you, if you can not treat me better, because I deserve better, we deserve better. You have a family, loving wife, healthy child, we both have jobs, money what else do you need more? Why can you not be happy? Why do you have to hurt me without a reason? No answear. And ofc to the outside Wrold we had to act, we are perfect together, for each other. But at home, behind the doors, at night.... Was a living Hell. I left him. Divorce is in process. He told me, I ahould have had to leave him earlier, so he would have recognized earlier, what he does is evil. So again, was my fault, that I didnt't leave him earlier, we wasted so much time. He is trying to have me back, I had time, when I thought, he is on a good way to become a better person but he never tells the truth. Even when he is kind, he is playing. I am sure now, after one and half year, that I will never start with him over. I have let him to abuse me 10 years. I hope one day I can forgive my self this. The mmost traumatic time in my life, what should have had to be the most amazing one: I became a wife, a mother... I wish I could start over my life. People! Pay attention to the red flags, they never lie!
O wow this is so deep! Thanks for explaining it! It sooo wierd because even the narc that I once knew... his own father said to me "he needs a mommy, now you can be his mother" 🙄🤦♀️🤯🥱
Thanks to you I understood why the closeted gay narcissist hated me even when I was so good and caring person, your information is pure gold 😊
I think alot of em are closet gay
This is very cruel..And so crazy! I managed with great difficulty not becoming his punishing monster. It took several years. Now I am so glad I stayed a good person! Thank you very much!
Thank you all for the comments ❤ at least I dont feel so alone now with my experience
This is by far your best lecture. So enlightening, so informative and totally on point. This is where I stand up a clap.
This video is very very enlightening and very important to underatand. The begging for punishmemt is extremly hard to see and understand at the moment it’s going on. Only after some time and distance from all that’s happened you start to realize this pattern and how very accurate this video is . Thanks Sam!
28:30 i havent heard you come outright and say it yet, so im leaving this comment just incase... when you refuse to play their game; when you refuse to abuse them. They translate that directly into: You don't Love me. A very sad, twisted and downward spiral way of thinking. Thank you for your indepth videos. I'm fascinated with human behavior, and i strive to understand it. 39:39 to add to this if i may, i call this giving them the excuses they NEED to justify their actions. Fueling the fantasy further. You are right, they dont want a good partner. They simply don't want to be okay. If their partner does not participate in the shared fantasty, their actions become unreasonable. They would have to be okay with the current conditions, which is ultimately not what they really want 😩
This explains so much about narcissist behavior and motivations and why they push people to the point of breaking.
I appreciate the distinction made here between depression as cognitive distortion that any person can succumb to following a jarring life event, versus emotions and behaviors that result from legitimate mood disorders, and occur in spite of external circumstances (good or bad). I was diagnosed with Bipolar I Disorder and can attest to this. Things in my life can be auspicious, and still I'll struggle with total misery. Conversely, my life can turn to complete sh-- by all objective standards, and I'll feel so euphoric that I don't care about the consequences of my actions, who I hurt or alienate. I've returned to Prof. Vaknin's work following a breakup with a borderline woman exhibiting a surreal and disorienting kind of malignancy that borders on the psychopathic. The most awful thing about the relationship was the cooccurrence of her symptoms with mine, and having been triggered by her in what was a mutually grandiose, intoxicating ecstasy at the time. My manic grandiosity will often mimic narcissism, and when it collided with her pathology, nothing but bad things happened. Even though the results of my manic grandiosity can often be identical to injuries inflicted by people with NPD, distinctions need to be made to get at root causes. Some things are biochemical and I feel that I am more culpable for my narcissistic behavior than actual narcissists. I can be medicated and treat my symptoms. Narcissists have a harder time doing so and it's tragic. Cluster B disorders are very difficult to untangle, and it is best to tell the difference between mood-dependent behavior and the behavior of those with rigid personality structures.
Search for my videos about Bipolar Disorder.
My heart feels like its breaking listening to this... I feel so sorry for her that she is trapped in this existence with no way out...She would ruin good times out of thin air, multiple times a week.. it made no sense.. now it does..
So, the mother modeling love as dependency and coercion and that's the distorted love he knows and comprehends is the problem. So, then on the first date we better to talk about our mothers, right? To see what kind of distorted love we are potentially getting into.
didnt you know, i fell ito a 5 year long relationship with a narcissist.i pretty much lost it all.
My soon to be ex husband would seriously start laughing when I started yelling when he would push me to it! It now makes sense why! Thanks so much for this video it’s helped a lot!
My mother did this again and again in my childhood.
So that’s why they leave good people as they pick the worse people! Makes sense
This describes my ex. I am looking after her cats and painting her condo right now(am I an idiot or what) I have so much empathy for her though. Her mother disowned her when she was 27 years old and then the mother passed away from a massive heart attack about four months later which is really tragic and she's kept the letter. The first 6 months we're amazing, and then after a year, I've been gaslighted into thinking that all of our problems are because of me. Yet I've been giving the silent treatment, she's used sex as a transaction, she's withheld sex and affection, she's giving me ultimatums timelines Etc. She knows which buttons to push in order to get a reaction so she can use it against me. She knows now that I'm not going to settle for someone who's emotionally unavailable and not able to connect on a deep level so it's pretty much a done deal in the relationship is over. And of course she's making me look bad as if everything is my fault oh, and I probably stayed in the relationship too long trying to prove reality to this person and everybody else but you know what, it'll never happen. It's not going to make her capable of loving me. And the way I feel about her, to Unconditionally Love Her is to just let her go and hope she can find happiness within herself without feeling like she has to get that from somebody. I tried to explain to her that she really isn't her thoughts, that they're just thoughts and she's just observing them and they're not really who she is. But I just don't think she really understands how to be, she said she meditates but oh, I think her idea of meditation is just distracting her from her negative thoughts. I don't know. I know the trauma she's experienced, I experienced terrible trauma at the age of 10
You can't love her to heal. She needs to love herself. You actually never loved her she is projecting you to you. You fell in love with yourself. There is no self there for her. For her to figure that out she would have to stop looking for supply and let herself collapse become a loser and go through her blackhole to the new her that exists when a blackhole collapses in on it self. You can't do that for anyone. It's actually your ego seeking supply that your this healer, this empath, you are going to save her. You are seeking love through her as well. Love yourself this person is not there. You can't go through the blackhole with her we all go through that alone.
This session has helped me understand the strange masochistic/ sadistic torture my ex put upon me. I never knew how he would react from one minute to another. His seething hatred of his mother came out after we were married. Thank God I got out and have been free for 2 years. Thank you Sam for educating me and so many others! Shalom
A video outlining the differences between cognitive distortions and mood disorders and how they relate to cluster B personality disorders would be very interesting!
What a tragedy! Listening again.
He had savage delusional Jealousy, and I tried to be empathetic toward his experience and let my experience take a backseat. I offered him complete transparency on my phone and told him he could install cameras… It was somehow beneath him, however, his deranged delusional accusations were not. I asked him one day why he thought I would stick around and try to work with him if it wasn’t because I deeply loved him. He responded point-blank “ to torture me.”
This is so sad. I recognize I used to be somewhere on this spectrum-but managed to mature out of it. Yet I meet others who are becoming self-aware, but still feel fatalistically resigned to such a dynamic.
Absolutely brilliant lecture
Remarkable video!
Thank you for everything
BRAVO !!!
Thank you Sam 👍🏻
Wow! Perfect. This matched perfectly with a perception I had of my abuser. I felt that the fact that I didn't take part in his cruelty and remained compassionate caused him great discomfort. This brings me a new element of contribution to my healing and maintenance of detachment. I am grateful to you for passing on your teachings
Brilliant!!!
Brilliant and clear
Excellent , many thanks for the clarification
Fascinating. Thank you !
Thx! proud to be your 281 001 subscriber
In the first months with my ex gf (love bombing), she was extremely jealousy and afraid of abandonment. She was trying to control my life and my friends, she asked me so many questions, she was so afraid. And she actually told me multiple times "please don't leave me, I don't know if I can handle it". But months later, she changed, she was trying really hard and everyday to make me mad at her for any random reason you could imagine, it's like she was self-sabotaging our relationship.. How someone that was afraid of abandonment, suddenly wants to sabotage our relationship? now I understand. Well, I was caring and helping her with all my love, I told her we could fight together and break any barrier in our life, that I would never abandon her... And then, she tried to destroy my life.. And all I needed to do was just be mad and abuse her feelings to avoid all the destruction? If only I had known this earlier... This makes a lot of sense. Looks like she can't just leave the relationship in the normal way, she needs to recreate the abandonment by her mother causing pain for both of us. Its so sad that she lives this way, and I know her history, she did the same to her ex before me, and probably gonna do the same to his new bf. Prof. Sam Vaknin, do you have any statistics of how long usually a love bombing/devaluation take in average? for example, love bombing = 3 months average, or this is just too personal for each narc?
I’m not a professional in the field. But it takes as long as the Narcissist believes she got you in the palm of her hand. After that…it all goes down the hill. I you try to leave her, the cycle repeats. I speak from experience.
@@Shakespy1979so spot on!
Everything you said line by line happened to me. And the thing is I believed her when she tells me she loves me but we fight every other day. I'm usually not a person of an argument and I was always trying to adjust to her climate to make her happy and make this chaos go away. I thought me giving everything I have can fix her. And after all my efforts, she left and I was confused and devastated. I didn't know she leaving is a blessing for me.
Amazing professor and handsome man!!!
Good morning Looking forward to this episode ❤🇦🇺
Haven't seen you in a while. Glad this one popped up.
Thank you Doctor Vaknin.
You have helped me dodge a bullet. Thanks!
Excellent analysis of depression
Yes omg it’s so true!!!
You're a genius thank you so much!
Man this video really puts the behavior of my previous partner into a context. Eye opening and stomach turning. He pushed me to start to become a person I despise, I was after 6 years starting to become mean, cruel and physically rough. Praise the Lord I got out after 8 years, can you imagine who I would have been after 16 or even 30? Great video to bring the dynamic into focus and give me a proper understanding!
Exactly the same here, also 8 years. He had to call the police on me. I was going to stab him. Never had this with anyone in my life. I'm glad you got out. I did too❤
Love your videos, Professor Vaknin! ❤
All this make so much sense. Thank you for explaining my latest relationship 🙏
Your latest videos have been the best ever.
Your channels are educational
Wow it's like you described my husband and he's proud of this
Well damn… that explains a lot
Unbelievably twisted but absolutely true.
Thank you Prof. Vaknin for more invaluable insight on the human condition.
Both mugs, very nice 😊
Wow what an EYE OPENER SAM!!!! This makes so much sense when you sit back amd think on it!!! Tha k you sam gor this importamt information!!!
I just love Professor Sam. “Good after morning.” I just took a course called Sexuality and Addiction. Very good class.