In this edition of 32 Thoughts, Jeff and Elliotte begin by revisiting John Tortorella's outburst on the bench while refusing to leave after an ejection. Then, the guys unpack the Golden Knights' use of LTIR, and the hockey world's reaction following the acquisition of Tomas Hertl.
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0:00 - John Tortorella's outburst on the bench while refusing to leave after an ejection.
15:21 - The Pittsburgh Penguins going backwards for the first time in Sidney Crosby's career and the aftermath of the Jake Guentzel trade.
26:27 - Elliotte provides an injury update for Canucks netminder Thatcher Demko
27:46 - Unpacking the Golden Knights' use of LTIR, and the hockey world's reaction following the acquisition of Tomas Hertl.
37:42 - That topic bleeds into a discussion around "no-state-tax teams" and concern regarding competitive balance in the NHL.
41:34 - Jeff and Elliotte also discuss the San Jose Sharks, who have now committed to a full rebuild.
43:40 - The fellas then move onto a number of trade deadline topics, including: Linus Ullmark staying in Boston
47:29 - The Evgeny Kuznetsov deal.
50:01 - The Byram for Mittelstadt trade.
57:17 - The Winning Jets picking up Tyler Toffoli.
1:05:00 - Later in the pod the guys turn their attention to the Arizona Coyotes as their search for new land continues.
1:07:17 - The crazy OT decision in the Wild-Predators game.
1:11:31 - The guys answer your questions in the Montana’s Thought Line.
Email the podcast at 32thoughts@sportsnet.ca or call the Montana's Thought Line at 1-833-311-3232 and leave us a voicemail
This podcast was produced and mixed by Dominic Sramaty and hosted by Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman.
The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.
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Torterella deserved an explanation on the flubbed calls. I know how fast the game is which makes it tough, but the referees need to be accountable to both teams, the game and also the buying public. This "cone of silence" they operate under only allows for suspicion and then speculation. To many times have we seen the magic make-up calls because of a phantom call, too many times we've seen those ticky tacky calls that kill momentum. Whether the game is is in November or a standings defining game in March doesn't matter, if they screw up they need some form of discipline that the fans are informed about!
Could you imagine if a ref was penalized for poor performance .. instead of penalizing coaches and players for pointing it out. The refs need to be accountable. People are left in the dark and questioning the league officiating. In this case Torts needs to be allowed to voice his side so we know what happened. Turns out standing up to the refs is as serious to the NHL as crosschecking someone to the head.
Torts' reaction is great for viewership. He is passionate, referees need accountability and upon review his reaction was spot on
Upon review, he should have been fined $500,000 and suspended for one year. When you're ejected, you should eject or be suspended.
He isn't passionate, he is just childish.
I don’t care what anyone says. We need people like John Tortorella in the sport. He wears his emotions on his sleeve. He makes things more interesting
@@toke7342 Marchand's a turtle, Torts ain't.
@@chrisgooglemaps2108 Torts is the most talked about coach in the league and he is a huge reason why the Flyers haven’t sucked this year. Not to mention he has made the playoffs numerous times and won the Jack Adams award in the last 20 years. How is that irrelevant?
@@toke7342Tort's doesn't spear players nuts like Rat Marchand.
@@toke7342I hate the way Marchand plays. Slue footing unexpecting players from behind is gutless. Feel free to defend his actions.
@@toke7342I hate the way Marchand plays. Slue footing unsuspecting opponents from behind is gutless. Feel free to defend his actions.
I’m on board with Torts! There has to be some accountability with ref,ing!
You can see Torts mouth something like “Get him over here. I wanna talk to him before I leave” and 3 of the officials are there telling him no. I was wondering why as you normally see refs offer their explanation to coaches
Coaches have been thrown out of games for years. If he just left when he was told he'd be available for the two games.. He's been doing this for years.
A regular official would go have a conversation but not Wes- He is too arrogant
Officials will never be held accountable in post-game interviews--the question of game management would be posed every time and the NHL doesn't want that spotlight on their favor of certain teams/players over others.
Hockey is my favourite sport but it always pisses me off that the NHL is the only one of the big four team sports in North America that doesn't allow their officials to be interviewed after the game like the NFL, NBA and MLB do.
It's a Zebra Mafia. They can and will screw you and there's zero accountability.
The problem is everyone knows the officiating is bad, but the stripes are doing exactly what the BOG is asking them to do; that is manage games to manufacture parity. They're keeping games that shouldn't be close, close and sometimes helping teams that shouldn't win, win.
Slimeball behavior and it's illegal to question it.
The officiating in that game was horrible. Don't blame him at all.
Justice for Torts!
Justice for Crosby!
For idiot and childish torts.
Torts had every right to be pissed
Torts wants to win. I respect his passion for the game. He's one of my favorite coaches.
hes an ass
Whatever the NHL thinks they are doing, they aren't. Their credibility is taking a beating and protecting referee's is becoming a farce. The referee's need to be held accountable otherwise it's a farce.
The NHL treats their officials like garbage. Maybe the reason officiating isn't better is because a lot of guys who would be good officials pass up the opportunity because of bad pay and the poor way they are treated by their employers.
That doesn't discount that this is bad on the NHL. The league drives fans away with crap like this. This is entirely a Bettman and his lawyer mentality. This entire thing was created by an inability to input interpersonal communication into different aspects of the game. Until Bettman is gone this won't change, it's a feature for him
@@RRaquello If that's one of the principle reasons then let's look at the facts and make an assessment. I'm not opposed to holding the league accountable if what your saying is the case.
@@brianlyon7225 He definitely puts his nose where it doesn't belong that's for sure.
Free Torts Free Torts
Sports betting has made the game and officating worse. Torts is a legend.
The league has hated the Flyers for decades, they just aren't hiding it now.
Stephan Auger incident with Burrows. Never forget. Then you have the weasel Ron Mclean defending Auger. When it was proved Auger was having personal vendettas with players, Ron gave the most insincere non apology "apology" seen on tv.
But thats Ron McLean. He is the sports equivalent of Joe Biden.
Ron Mclean was a referee though, makes sense.
Auger was terrible. Something you now have in common with him, for the weasel comment.
Wes McCauley kicks puppies
I feel like Jeff was about to bring up the argument before Elliot cut him off, but players coming back to play before fully healthy is COMPLETELY relevant. Mark Stone was not completely healthy when he came back last year to compete in the playoffs, neither was Kucherov. Guys play through injuries every single year specifically in the playoffs because that’s when their play and the games matter the most. How on gods green earth are you going to police players from coming back early from injury? I’d like to think we’ve gotten to a point where nobody thinks it’s a fake injury anymore. Everyone recovers differently, everyone has different pain tolerances. You absolutely cannot tell someone when they can and cannot come back from injury. That is a brutally slippery slope, and it’s the reason why nothing will change.
Torts is awesome, the refs suck anyways. Need more coaches like him.
Torts, broken hand, let me guess, he punched something, I'm an old school hockey player about torts age, I punched a steel door recently and broke my hand, the Dr said, your not a teen you know. Go Torts.
Actually just got hand surgery lol
Torts did nothing wrong 🗿🍷
What I miss in your discussion of the situation is that the direct cause of this was horrendous calls at the expense of the Flyers - when there is a lot at stake for the Flyers. So the refs mess up mutiple times in a very one-sided direction - and there IS no accountability for the refs it seems. At what point - as a coach - when you see refs consistently make massive mistakes that are costing your games are you allowed to say something?
The "pull your goalie and lose the 'extra' point" thing is ridiculous. How many times has that happened in 20 years? Has it even been more than once? And at the end of the day, the extra point is almost meaningless. Look at any year since the loser point has been implemented. Only once or twice in all that time has it ever made a playoff implication.
In Bettman's universe, you can't question officiating even a little. Because the NHL is a sports betting league. More than a hockey league. That's why the ridiculous over the top treatment of those who dare to question referee competence. Always follow the money.
They need to really change the salary cap rules to use after tax dollars and not pre tax.
On the LTIR issue, the League should have to sign off on anyone returning from LTIR and players who are on LTIR at the end of the season are not eligible to play in the 1st round. On the Income Tax issue, teams in states with state income tax should be lobbying to the state to reduce or eliminate the taxes.
The refs are clowns these days
If reffs manage the game ...what about betting?
NHL getting LIKE Baseball say one word out you go....
Wes is beloved in Vancouver for flooring Brad Marchand with a shoulder check. 12 is perfectly fine, I was watching crazy crap, and we were allowed to watch Eddy Murphy back in the day.
Man ever since the sponsorships of FanDuel and DraftKing officiating has been up and down. I'm not into betting but I had watched a Panthers game and the calls weren't being called in favor of the Panthers so my pops said I wonder what the betting lines look like. So I watched FanDuel's odds and they would switch every sog and then a power play came. They locked out the betting for a good 3-4 seconds and completely switched the favorite odds, money line, and over/under odds. So the bet you placed before the power play didn't count towards what would happen on the powerplay.
Teams should have to be cap compliant in round one or in future play in rounds
The past few years have seen the Sharks trade Burns, Meir, and Karlsson. That looks like a full teardown to me. They anticipated being really bad - just not really, really, really bad.
Bradshaw would be an epic coach. I'd oay to see him vs Patrick Roy in a last man standing match at intermission
The problem is literally that tortorella wouldn’t leave. He delayed the game. I’ve been a USA hockey ref for 15 years. If we throw a coach out and he won’t leave we run the clock until he does. NHL refs have no such recourse. The nhl took a stand bc torts wouldn’t leave the bench after being thrown out and there HAS to be repercussions for that. That’s why it was 2 games and $50k
The line up should have to be under the salary cap max at any point, as well as the playoffs, so some players should have to be sat if a team used the salary cap loophole. Also professional sports contracts should have flexibility based on taxes paid to compensate for higher tax in some cities over others, so a player should get more money if they have to pay higher tax to make up for it so at the end of the day the player gets the same amount no matter where they are....another thing should be a form of living out allowance where if a city is more expensive players should get extra pay to make up for the higher living expenses.
Bettman and Daly hate Torts.
The Penguins have been going backwards since they resigned Malkin and Letang. What did you expect to happen with that situation?
It's inevitable for any team that has been good for a long period of time. Detroit, Chicago, now Pittsburgh. Later, Tampa. Even teams that were good and didn't win, like San Jose. You can't go 10+ years without ever getting a top 5/top 10 pick without it showing up later on.
@@RRaquello It's not inevitable at all. GM's and legacy players could just realize that the best thing they could do for the fans is to move on while they still have trade value instead of signing retirement contracts just to fade out their careers in mediocrity at the expense of the people who supported them along the way.
@@spearson103 the GM is under a lot of pressure in these situations. Look at Tampa’s situation right now with Stamkos. Should they re-sign him? If they don’t they catch hell not only from their own fans but from all around the league for their ingratitude to their greatest player. As a Flames fan I remember the same thing with Iginla, and there it went on for about five years of unending hand wringing and soap opera of “What To Do With Jerome?”. A GM has to be ruthless in these situations for the good of the team, but they’re often not allowed to do what needs to be done because of ownership and attempts to appease the fans and not look bad to the public.
If you dont play in any game after the deadline you sit the whole playoffs or at LEAST 2 rounds.
Players can be fined, coachs can be fined, what about refs? Why are refs the only 1s in NHL allowed to do what ever they want and never have to answer to anyone? Can you all say with 100% certainty a ref has never made a call or mised a call on purpose ? There needs to be someone in charge of monitoring refs and doing something to refs that make their own calls! Obviously if some one argues with a ref it is bad but when refs carry that too far and hold a grudge and decide the outcome of games because they are bitter is pathetic!
That's just ignorant. Refs are held accountable as well. If you think refs don't get evaluated and given more or less games based on performance you're crazy. And they weren't even bad calls? The trip was a trip. You can't hit a guy in the face during a line change. You can't overly berate a ref, and they generally give LOTS of slack. But there's a limit to how much they allow. Now sure, sometimes there have been some bad calls, but it's so much easier sitting here watching it in slow mo than trying to keep the peace and call the game real time. There's so much arguing, pushing, shoving, and little penalties every second of the game.
You can't run the pens like Toronto. Dubas seems to destroying the team
Mitts is gonna surprise a lot of people.
I really hope Vegas misses the playoffs.
They are 6 points up with 17 games to play, no chance unfortunately.
If teams are already rushing their insured players back for the playoffs, making them wait a few games or a round will give them more time to rest. What a dumb take by the guy who says that will cause them to rush players back. He stood his ground on it too.
Bettman and the NHL refs should let the players and coaches decide the game on the ice. I hate when coaches and players get ejected for being a bit salty.
Respect for Wes is hilarious, they're not "teammates" they're not a sports team - they're refs. They follow the rules, it's not a boys club, follow the rules properly, end of. Wes is a terrible ref, he screws up calls every year, constantly, and is never punished by the league like other sports. The NFL and Soccer both punish and suspend refs, but the NHL is the worst run league in sports. Like are either of you gonna talk about how BAD the calls were? Why are you joking about it like it's okay.
Arizona Coyotes ownership has many radio stations..which is a declining business…just let four of their midday radio host slots go. Deep pockets may still be thematic here but trying to forge ahead with purchase of land and building a new arena complex..how realistic this happens soon enough..
It is not happening. IF ANY public funds are being used there will be a vote, and maybe 1 in 10,000 people there watch hockey. Even if they are building the Arena with their own money if they want tax breaks or anything like that, there will be a vote, there are government watchdogs in Arizona that have the ability to take civic governments to court.
The officiating for the league is a joke. Inconsistency is the only consistent thing that can be said about it. And it gets worse in the playoffs. Call the book, not an interpretation, and be the same. I've seen so many games go sideways because of the officiating or lack thereof. Put a guy up in the sky, give the 2 refs on the ice earbuds, and start having some consistency where you can call the things that were missed in the flow, or have a better view on it from the booth above. While it is hard to do, we can do things with the technology and ability we have now, to make it a battle they can succeed in, instead of creating time and time again, that not only is this acceptable, but more of the same is to come, you're taking away from the very game you're trying to promote.
the league has gotten douchbaggy. Coaches all the time question calls, get loud, and get angry. what the crap is with a toss and suspension for questions call or yelling. Sorry but thats bs
I don’t know Brad Shaw and he might be a good coach but his coaching record is not impressive. That could have something to do with bad teams that he coached at other levels.
I'm just walking into europhysio
"someone told me". I don't know how many times elliot says "someone told me". Who? Who told you?
Those would be Eliot Fraudmans "sources" The girl who sells popcorn, the parking lot attendant, the sit usher and the Zamboni driver.
Remember Stephan Augier,worst referee
I've always wondered why Brad Shaw has never gotten another HC job after his stint with the Islanders as an interim. That must be 15 years ago by now. He did a great job with a not-very-good team in his short time with the Islanders and it was when he was with Columbus a few years ago that they had their best stretch. He's someone the Devils should take a real hard look at. He could be ideal for their team. Also, Sidney Crosby will be a New York Ranger. Bank on it. Every big name ends up with the Rangers eventually. Crosby will follow Gretzky and McDavid will follow Crosby. They only missed on Mario and that's because he couldn't play for one team while owning another.
Losing Shaw was also a big reason Van fell flat in Boudreau's follow up season.
@@BillyMais If I'm not mistaken, I believe Shaw was also the defense coach of St. Louis the year they won the cup. Not 100% sure about that, but I think he was.
hockey is teaching people to accept authority and shove your true feelings down deep.
no cap in the playoffs is such a joke just make a rule where if a player gets injured in the playoffs, his money comes off the books. ACTIVE SKATER SALARY CAP. It’s not hard to fix this broken system
Torts really didn't do anything wrong. Neither did Wes. No reason to kick Torts out, though.
Wes didn't do anything wrong, but there was no reason to kick Torts out? Okay..
@@misschrysalis Coaches yell at refs all the time. Nothing new this time around.
If a player goes on LTIR they should not be allowed to return in the first round.
you should be allowed to go on to LTIR, but you would have to play (& be activated) either 2 or 3 games before the playoffs (and play at least a shift in each period), which is just short of a week...
I think the next time McCauley refs a Flyers game, he might get accidentally run over. Just saying.
I'm glad Torts doesn't coach the Oilers - he'd be kicked out of every game for the amount of holding and cheap shots NOT called on McDavid and Draisaitl but yet all those players need to do is look wrong at their opponent to get a call against them
The refs should be fined and suspended too.
this is why hockey fans want bettman gone. hurt feelings and egos trump the game.
Flyers have become crybabies.
How about Pro-rating the salary cap based on the person income tax level of the state or province. Take all 32 teams, determine a scale factor for the % of personal income tax that a player would pay in each state or province. Base each team's salary cap number on where they rank on the scale from highest income tax to lowest. I would think that means that Ontario and Quebec teams would have the highest cap number, then Manitoba, likely then California, probably a couple of other high-tax states ahead of Alberta, and so on, down to the lowest cap number for the no-tax states.
I think especially with revenue sharing etc contracts should be negotiated by take home value in some way
Of crosby really wants to win again he shoukd leave or take 2×5
Wes McCauley is a crybaby
These Refs now, think instant replay has made them so wishy washy on calls through out a game. Not game to game, period to period. Crazy thing is refs have no recourse in the public, to explain or see punishment for wrong doing. Players/Coaches can be chirped/kicked out of games to follow with fines and suspensions. Officials just ride off like they cant be called out or questioned. This is a NHL epic failure. The empowerment of the officials is unreal though out pro sports. Its getting worse and worse, even with the technology to back them up.
Regardless of what Torts did, the owner coming out and saying they'll pay any fine is the really bad part. It sends a terrible precedent that league discipline means nothing.
NHL officiating is a joke .....feel sorry for some of these referees.....however some are idiots.....Bettman is a clown....
Man the NHL is stupid.. Stuff like losing a shutout over a minute off the ice is just asinine man Half of the rules you can chuck out the window for being knit picky
Yeah but the refs have no game to win...Torts out for 2 ,Appears,to be stiff,at a very bad time for Philly(appears because nobodys talking!??)
I watched the game and all of the highlights over and over again. my team is in the metro and it's not Philly. calls against Philly were terrible. And the refs decided the outcome of the game. you guys want to pass off torts as a out of control coach and laugh about it. and how Shaw really should be the coach. the poor poor refs. you two are like to corrupt Politian's. I'm officially nominating you two as reining kings of stupid people.
Don't like the no Tax?? Stop voting to give your money to social programs.
How series really is this reffing situation. How many coaches have just acted like Torts in the past. I know there's been a close few, but it's extremely rare, and honestly, while I respect Torts for being strict and passionate, I do think he gets a power trip, and also has a very bad temper. Guy deserves a check on his behavior.
Elliotte son’d Jeff at 35 minutes 40 seconds
35:40
It's Philly, who f*cking cares 🤣
John needs serious anger management
The officials have received no erosion of confidence in my book when dealing with the irresponsible tortorella who should have been suspended for one year and fined $500,000.
Guys, you're overthinking this. Torts is a nutjob. And I think the two games suspension is great. You think he won't remember this next time he has the urge to act up?
Torts behaved like a spoiled brat 3 year old who throws a temper tantrum whenever he doesn't get his way. Lucky for him is that his "mommy" (Flyers CEO aka Soccer Mom Karen) is going to cover the fine so widdle baby boy doesn't get his feelings hurt again.
The officials are corrupt With Betman leading the way. Stop going to the games, stop watching games on the TV, and stop buying their merchandise. Hit them where it hurts and maybe they'll start making changes. I'm tired of Betman's dictatorship, what a punk.
I would investigate the officials for the possibility of fixing the game for personal gain. Betting has become a BIG part of the game today. Almost every commercial during a game is about a betting app. This will ruin young adults and families and the NHL just doesn't give a sh*t. Meanwhile, they take a hard stance when a coach criticizes an official, or wants an explanation.
You don't need to "hear" from the officials. All you need to do is be able to read the lips of Torts. After four f bombs, the ref told him that was enough. Torts followed with at least three more f you's and a couple of other expletives and he got tossed. Then he had another tantrum and refused to leave the bench. This went on another couple of minutes, including him shouting that he would not leave, and that the official had to leave! Sure it's funny, but what is ANY league, authority figure, or parent to do? Exactly what the nhl did, fine his ass and suspend him so the message is clear and unambiguous.
And another thing. As far as "refs need to be held accountable", they are. It just isn't made public. Two things i know for a fact, is that after EVERY game they are given a "report card" from a supervisor. Every call and missed call is scrutinized, and secondly, their pay structure is commensurate with performance. Their pay is heavily dependent on their performance, both for each game and the number of games they are assigned in the regular season and playoffs. All officials get paid on a scale (based on their seniority/experience) that has a maximum and minimum. For simplicity's sake let's call it an even $100 max and minimun $50 (yes, i'm aware they average about $250,000 a season) per game. If they missed two offsides they would be deducted $5 for each, and missed an obvious penalty because they were out of position $20 gets deducted, so they end up only making $70 instead of $100 for that game. In other words, they are held much more accountable than you or i at work.
The problem with all of that is that it isn't public. There needs to be some public accountability or it'll never be believed. I'm not say roast these guys nightly. If there's a call that VERY questionable, just a press release stating what the league thinks about it would help immeasurably.
Doesn't sound believable to me....