Sibelius: Symphony No. 5. New York Philharmonic, Leonard Bernstein (cond.) Sony Classical
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Thank you so much dave! I was absolutely shocked in the begining of the video, thinking I'm about to watch just another entertaining video about something i love, and being greeted with a birthday blessing from you. It has made my day a very happy one! On another matter, you haven't done the Scarlatti sonata escapade for a long time, and I suggest sonata k 380, wich is a great showcase of scarlatti's spanish side, and seems to me as a sort of dialogue from inside his soul.
@avishaikahane771414 күн бұрын
You're very welcome, and thanks for the Scarlatti recommendation. I'll keep it in mind. You're right--past time for another episode.
@DavesClassicalGuide14 күн бұрын
I have just this moment been "treated" to the last movement of Sibelius 5 on BBC Radio 3, conducted by a certain Santtu-Matias Rouvali. All I can say is that by the end of this aural experience (in which the complete absence of emotion was by no means compensated for by the presence of EXTREME detail) I finally understood what you mean by modern young conductors micromanaging their recordings. Thank you for your seemingly endless music appreciation course which has transformed my life and revitalised my listening experience.
@timbakerbartholomew7 күн бұрын
I've abandoned the 3rd program. France Musique Classique Plus for me!
@neilford994 күн бұрын
Well Dave, you have done it, now. For as long as I have known Sibelius 5, my reference recording was Karajan/Berlin, for the mastery of the accelerando in the first movement. But...that Bernstein finale is something else...It reduces the Karajan version to a beautifully polished but rather cowardly display of orchestral beauty, without getting to the soul of Sibelius. Bernstein, however, lets it all hang out! He masters the accents, the dissonances, the rhetorical phrasing. Karajan's version, however dearly I love it, is Karajan. Bernstein's version is Sibelius.
@markokassenaar438714 күн бұрын
Your comments ring true for this listener who purchased the LP when first released. Also your comments on the sonics were absolutely on target. Enjoying your channel. Keep up the good work!!!
@martlet53014 күн бұрын
I'm a bit surprised "The Reference" wasn't Karajan's from 1965 or so. How they used to flog that recording in the British press, and let's face it, it's a great performance. Still Dave I wholeheartedly agree on your assessment of Bernstein's effort. I'd even stick my neck out and say between Bernstein's Sibelius Fifth and Mahler Third, they're the best works he ever recorded...period.
@maximisaev697414 күн бұрын
Hello Dave! I am waiting eagerly for Leos Janáček to appear in this series! Best wishes Fred from Kristianstad.
@fred690414 күн бұрын
Most of it will begin and end with Mackerras. And maybe Dorati.
@e.heckscher157613 күн бұрын
@@e.heckscher1576 Well, that's too bad, as he's overrated. Ancerl for Sinfonietta, Jilek for Jenufa ....
@terenceollerhead368013 күн бұрын
Had the recording you are holding up in the LP version. Now have two separate Sony CDs that pair Bernstein's Sibelius' Fifth with Ormandy Philadelphia recording of Sibelius's First. Pohjola's Daughter is on a disc of Sibelius Tone Poems mainly performed by Ormandy and Philadelphia, with Bernstein neatly inserted in between. CAN'T GET ANY BETTER !!!! Another winning video, Dave...
@FREDGARRISON14 күн бұрын
i like it when i get the reference recording exactly wrong; this was a most valuable video
@horacenyc49214 күн бұрын
I was thinking Davis/BSO
@e.heckscher157613 күн бұрын
Interesting, I'm of a similar vintage to you Dave and started collecting around the time you would have been. I was lucky to get the Davis BSO set in a Philips box on release, and luckily I now know they are considered good entry performances. After all, I couldn't afford multiple versions back in the day. I don't remember reading much about Lenny's Sibelius, but then again, I shied away from the domestic US releases because I thought they were technically at a lower level from the Euro ones. I do remember the 60's HvK Berlin performances were always highly regarded, but after I heard them I never thought of them as being totally representative, being more in the HvK lush sonority style that he is known for (I call it the Strauss filter because of how it paints everything with such post romantic lushness). Anyways, long story short, I owe it to myself to listen to more of Bernstein's Sibelius. Not that it matters but my favourite 5th has been Barbirolli's 1959 Halle performance for the elemental portrayal of the Swan theme and gnarly dissonance in the closing measures.
@michaelk605711 күн бұрын
Thanks for a very informative discussion. The Fifth was the first Sibelius composition I heard in concert, with Gaetano Delogu and Czech Phil in 1979 (if memory serves). A studio recording exists on Supraphon that Mr Hurwitz praised in his talk about S5 some time ago. Apologies for this sentimental comment. I agree completely that the Bernstein NY Phil is THE reference.
@libor412814 күн бұрын
Believe it or not I'd never listened to Lenny conducting any Sibelius. The 5th is a crackerjack recording! Now listening to 3 after 7!
@neilford9913 күн бұрын
Hello Dave. The reference recordings videos are great. Love them. Here's an idea: your favorite (not reference, but your personal favorite) Sibelius symphony recordings. Each one.
@badger149214 күн бұрын
Oh, btw, I'm a big fan of your books and videos. My birthday is April 30th.
@badger149214 күн бұрын
Thanks. That's already been done for each symphony. Just look at the Sibelius playlist.
@DavesClassicalGuide13 күн бұрын
Happy birthday to our friend ! On another subject, will you review the new Enescu symphony cycle on DG ? I was very pleased to see this release even if I think the Lintu cycle is kinda better.
@juliendupre870414 күн бұрын
Yes, I will cover it.
@DavesClassicalGuide14 күн бұрын
Sibelius #5 is the symphony I like most from Sibelius. However, the ending is strange and unsatisfying. May be I should look up Dave's older videos about the piece and learn a few things from him about that
@caleblaw349714 күн бұрын
Just switched on, and here you are! What better welcome can there be? I love this Bernstein Sibelius 5. Speaking as a non-muso, I feel the ending is amazing, and I've heard quite a few recordings where it sort of goes a bit squidgy! Bernstein - and Colin Davis (Boston) are brilliant.
@artistinbeziers791614 күн бұрын
I'd hoped that you'd acknowledge Karajan's recording of the 7th with the BPO as a reference recording (it's stupendous and my personal favorite), but it didn't get the greatest review on Classics Today and I have no idea what other critics thought of it.
@richardkavesh829914 күн бұрын
It's not a reference recording.
@DavesClassicalGuide14 күн бұрын
Interesting. In the rest of the world it seems to be Karajan's 60s DG recording.
@UlfilasNZ14 күн бұрын
No, it has always been very highly respected (including by me), but not as a reference, especially in light of Karajan's multiple versions of the same work.
@DavesClassicalGuide14 күн бұрын
@@DavesClassicalGuide I meant more in the sense that you hear it spoken of in reverent tones, I had not been aware of the Bernstein so much until I read critics from the U.S.
@UlfilasNZ14 күн бұрын
@@DavesClassicalGuide But as you discuss in this video, Bernstein also has multiple recordings, and his Vienna recording is more well-known than Karajan’s mono Philharmonia or his digital EMI. I would wager that a lot of people don’t even know Karajan re-recorded it.
@ecriturecinematographique298713 күн бұрын
One of Glenn Gould's desert island discs.
@DiversityKool-AidAbstainer12 күн бұрын
I need to listen to Bernstein 5th (Columbia) again. I tend to not deviate much from Blomstedt and Segerstam. San Francisco and Salonen released Sibelius 5 recently.
@sjc120414 күн бұрын
Hey, Dave, just watched your interesting video about symphonies 1780-1880. However, I have no idea why but underneath the video itself it is completely blank therefore giving me no opportunity to tick a like or make a comment. Hope this is not some You Tube thing going on here. With reference to that video, and I'm sure you have a very good reason not to mention them, but I wonder why the Berlioz Fantastic Symphony, Schubert's 9th Symphony, the Franck symphony and the Bruckner 4th did not get onto your excellent list with which I entirely agree. Also entirely agree with the reference for the Sibelius symphony.
@petercable776813 күн бұрын
Because I wanted to pick 10 and those were the 10 I picked. There is no other reason, nor is there any particular reason why the ones you list should have any special priority over the ones I listed. Let's not overthink these things.
@DavesClassicalGuide13 күн бұрын
Thank you for interesting videos! I'm quite new to classical music, but I would like to know if you have recommandations for minimalistic classical composers or pieces. Arvo Pärt is of course one of my favorites. I enjoy lot of symphonies and massive pieces also, but minimalistic classical/neo-classical is sort of form of meditation for my soul. Thanks! Greetings from Finland!
@marttivirtanen226214 күн бұрын
Thanks for asking. I made a video on just this topic that hopefully you might find useful: kzhead.info/sun/d6aklteriZmEZas/bejne.html Have fun!
@DavesClassicalGuide14 күн бұрын
@@DavesClassicalGuide Thank you Dave!!
@marttivirtanen226213 күн бұрын
Interesting. Going off of my own anecdotal experience of what I’ve seen most often cited I would have thought the Karajan/Berlin on EMI would get the nod (Glenn Gould, for example, cited it as his favorite). And Karajan had undeniable Sibelius cred, with the composer having called Karajan his finest interpreter. I once mentioned that to a very smart conductor, who tartly replied “Yeah, but it was only after Sibelius’s death that Karajan started going downhill.”
@stephenswanson33414 күн бұрын
I believe Glenn Gould was referring to the DG recording.
@UlfilasNZ13 күн бұрын
Hi Dave! Watching your reference recordings made me think that most of the consensus choices points to late fifties/early sixties productions. Was that period a kind of golden era of classical music?
@marceloforones693914 күн бұрын
Yes, it was.
@DavesClassicalGuide14 күн бұрын
I always am disappointed when we don’t clearly hear the fff timpani. Tx Dave. Bd is July 22….
@jacquesracine957114 күн бұрын
Obviously most of the references recordings come from the 1950-70s period. But it’s interesting, what is the latest modern released recording you consider as a reference?
@nikeeta1914 күн бұрын
When we get to it, you'll see it!
@DavesClassicalGuide14 күн бұрын
It's interesting that you say none of the other Sibelius symphonies (other than 2 & 5) have reference recordings. I would have thought that an obvious reference for No. 7 would be Serge Koussevitzky with the BBC Symphony Orchestra. Personally, I don't care for that recording, but it does tend to be the one everyone compares other recordings to, which kind of makes it a reference, does it not?
@twwc96014 күн бұрын
Not.
@DavesClassicalGuide14 күн бұрын
I think it was a reference of sorts up into the 1940s. For its subtleties and grasp of structure, it was almost legendary.Harris Goldsmith in HF did a Sibelius symphony survey in the '60s and mentions it favorably. But the problem is that it was available only as a "Society Set" and not readily obtainable by the average collector. Plus, it was a 1933 live recording and sonically subpar even for its era. I've checked, and RCA had deleted it in the USA in the early 40s. I'm happy to own a set of near-mint shellacs but its reference status expired about 7 decades ago.
@bbailey781814 күн бұрын
Bernstein isn't the reference for the 7th as well? The first one I mean.
@Lamprocles22114 күн бұрын
The critics in my college years were mostly malcontents, and one compared this interpretation unfavorably with the Kousssevitzky. The DG Karajan makes a fascinating comparison with this one, which was my first Fifth.
@morrigambist14 күн бұрын
Yes, Karajan is splendid.
@DavesClassicalGuide14 күн бұрын
Koussevitzky's is very fast, by the way. No lingering.
@bbailey781814 күн бұрын
I will always be championing Bernstein's Sony Sibelius symphonies. It's THE reference set to own IMHO. No. 1, 3, 5 & 7 are particularly special, even 'transcendental' if you like the term.
Thank you so much dave! I was absolutely shocked in the begining of the video, thinking I'm about to watch just another entertaining video about something i love, and being greeted with a birthday blessing from you. It has made my day a very happy one! On another matter, you haven't done the Scarlatti sonata escapade for a long time, and I suggest sonata k 380, wich is a great showcase of scarlatti's spanish side, and seems to me as a sort of dialogue from inside his soul.
You're very welcome, and thanks for the Scarlatti recommendation. I'll keep it in mind. You're right--past time for another episode.
I have just this moment been "treated" to the last movement of Sibelius 5 on BBC Radio 3, conducted by a certain Santtu-Matias Rouvali. All I can say is that by the end of this aural experience (in which the complete absence of emotion was by no means compensated for by the presence of EXTREME detail) I finally understood what you mean by modern young conductors micromanaging their recordings. Thank you for your seemingly endless music appreciation course which has transformed my life and revitalised my listening experience.
I've abandoned the 3rd program. France Musique Classique Plus for me!
Well Dave, you have done it, now. For as long as I have known Sibelius 5, my reference recording was Karajan/Berlin, for the mastery of the accelerando in the first movement. But...that Bernstein finale is something else...It reduces the Karajan version to a beautifully polished but rather cowardly display of orchestral beauty, without getting to the soul of Sibelius. Bernstein, however, lets it all hang out! He masters the accents, the dissonances, the rhetorical phrasing. Karajan's version, however dearly I love it, is Karajan. Bernstein's version is Sibelius.
Your comments ring true for this listener who purchased the LP when first released. Also your comments on the sonics were absolutely on target. Enjoying your channel. Keep up the good work!!!
I'm a bit surprised "The Reference" wasn't Karajan's from 1965 or so. How they used to flog that recording in the British press, and let's face it, it's a great performance. Still Dave I wholeheartedly agree on your assessment of Bernstein's effort. I'd even stick my neck out and say between Bernstein's Sibelius Fifth and Mahler Third, they're the best works he ever recorded...period.
Hello Dave! I am waiting eagerly for Leos Janáček to appear in this series! Best wishes Fred from Kristianstad.
Most of it will begin and end with Mackerras. And maybe Dorati.
@@e.heckscher1576 Well, that's too bad, as he's overrated. Ancerl for Sinfonietta, Jilek for Jenufa ....
Had the recording you are holding up in the LP version. Now have two separate Sony CDs that pair Bernstein's Sibelius' Fifth with Ormandy Philadelphia recording of Sibelius's First. Pohjola's Daughter is on a disc of Sibelius Tone Poems mainly performed by Ormandy and Philadelphia, with Bernstein neatly inserted in between. CAN'T GET ANY BETTER !!!! Another winning video, Dave...
i like it when i get the reference recording exactly wrong; this was a most valuable video
I was thinking Davis/BSO
Interesting, I'm of a similar vintage to you Dave and started collecting around the time you would have been. I was lucky to get the Davis BSO set in a Philips box on release, and luckily I now know they are considered good entry performances. After all, I couldn't afford multiple versions back in the day. I don't remember reading much about Lenny's Sibelius, but then again, I shied away from the domestic US releases because I thought they were technically at a lower level from the Euro ones. I do remember the 60's HvK Berlin performances were always highly regarded, but after I heard them I never thought of them as being totally representative, being more in the HvK lush sonority style that he is known for (I call it the Strauss filter because of how it paints everything with such post romantic lushness). Anyways, long story short, I owe it to myself to listen to more of Bernstein's Sibelius. Not that it matters but my favourite 5th has been Barbirolli's 1959 Halle performance for the elemental portrayal of the Swan theme and gnarly dissonance in the closing measures.
Thanks for a very informative discussion. The Fifth was the first Sibelius composition I heard in concert, with Gaetano Delogu and Czech Phil in 1979 (if memory serves). A studio recording exists on Supraphon that Mr Hurwitz praised in his talk about S5 some time ago. Apologies for this sentimental comment. I agree completely that the Bernstein NY Phil is THE reference.
Believe it or not I'd never listened to Lenny conducting any Sibelius. The 5th is a crackerjack recording! Now listening to 3 after 7!
Hello Dave. The reference recordings videos are great. Love them. Here's an idea: your favorite (not reference, but your personal favorite) Sibelius symphony recordings. Each one.
Oh, btw, I'm a big fan of your books and videos. My birthday is April 30th.
Thanks. That's already been done for each symphony. Just look at the Sibelius playlist.
Happy birthday to our friend ! On another subject, will you review the new Enescu symphony cycle on DG ? I was very pleased to see this release even if I think the Lintu cycle is kinda better.
Yes, I will cover it.
Sibelius #5 is the symphony I like most from Sibelius. However, the ending is strange and unsatisfying. May be I should look up Dave's older videos about the piece and learn a few things from him about that
Just switched on, and here you are! What better welcome can there be? I love this Bernstein Sibelius 5. Speaking as a non-muso, I feel the ending is amazing, and I've heard quite a few recordings where it sort of goes a bit squidgy! Bernstein - and Colin Davis (Boston) are brilliant.
I'd hoped that you'd acknowledge Karajan's recording of the 7th with the BPO as a reference recording (it's stupendous and my personal favorite), but it didn't get the greatest review on Classics Today and I have no idea what other critics thought of it.
It's not a reference recording.
Interesting. In the rest of the world it seems to be Karajan's 60s DG recording.
No, it has always been very highly respected (including by me), but not as a reference, especially in light of Karajan's multiple versions of the same work.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I meant more in the sense that you hear it spoken of in reverent tones, I had not been aware of the Bernstein so much until I read critics from the U.S.
@@DavesClassicalGuide But as you discuss in this video, Bernstein also has multiple recordings, and his Vienna recording is more well-known than Karajan’s mono Philharmonia or his digital EMI. I would wager that a lot of people don’t even know Karajan re-recorded it.
One of Glenn Gould's desert island discs.
I need to listen to Bernstein 5th (Columbia) again. I tend to not deviate much from Blomstedt and Segerstam. San Francisco and Salonen released Sibelius 5 recently.
Hey, Dave, just watched your interesting video about symphonies 1780-1880. However, I have no idea why but underneath the video itself it is completely blank therefore giving me no opportunity to tick a like or make a comment. Hope this is not some You Tube thing going on here. With reference to that video, and I'm sure you have a very good reason not to mention them, but I wonder why the Berlioz Fantastic Symphony, Schubert's 9th Symphony, the Franck symphony and the Bruckner 4th did not get onto your excellent list with which I entirely agree. Also entirely agree with the reference for the Sibelius symphony.
Because I wanted to pick 10 and those were the 10 I picked. There is no other reason, nor is there any particular reason why the ones you list should have any special priority over the ones I listed. Let's not overthink these things.
Thank you for interesting videos! I'm quite new to classical music, but I would like to know if you have recommandations for minimalistic classical composers or pieces. Arvo Pärt is of course one of my favorites. I enjoy lot of symphonies and massive pieces also, but minimalistic classical/neo-classical is sort of form of meditation for my soul. Thanks! Greetings from Finland!
Thanks for asking. I made a video on just this topic that hopefully you might find useful: kzhead.info/sun/d6aklteriZmEZas/bejne.html Have fun!
@@DavesClassicalGuide Thank you Dave!!
Interesting. Going off of my own anecdotal experience of what I’ve seen most often cited I would have thought the Karajan/Berlin on EMI would get the nod (Glenn Gould, for example, cited it as his favorite). And Karajan had undeniable Sibelius cred, with the composer having called Karajan his finest interpreter. I once mentioned that to a very smart conductor, who tartly replied “Yeah, but it was only after Sibelius’s death that Karajan started going downhill.”
I believe Glenn Gould was referring to the DG recording.
Hi Dave! Watching your reference recordings made me think that most of the consensus choices points to late fifties/early sixties productions. Was that period a kind of golden era of classical music?
Yes, it was.
I always am disappointed when we don’t clearly hear the fff timpani. Tx Dave. Bd is July 22….
Obviously most of the references recordings come from the 1950-70s period. But it’s interesting, what is the latest modern released recording you consider as a reference?
When we get to it, you'll see it!
It's interesting that you say none of the other Sibelius symphonies (other than 2 & 5) have reference recordings. I would have thought that an obvious reference for No. 7 would be Serge Koussevitzky with the BBC Symphony Orchestra. Personally, I don't care for that recording, but it does tend to be the one everyone compares other recordings to, which kind of makes it a reference, does it not?
Not.
I think it was a reference of sorts up into the 1940s. For its subtleties and grasp of structure, it was almost legendary.Harris Goldsmith in HF did a Sibelius symphony survey in the '60s and mentions it favorably. But the problem is that it was available only as a "Society Set" and not readily obtainable by the average collector. Plus, it was a 1933 live recording and sonically subpar even for its era. I've checked, and RCA had deleted it in the USA in the early 40s. I'm happy to own a set of near-mint shellacs but its reference status expired about 7 decades ago.
Bernstein isn't the reference for the 7th as well? The first one I mean.
The critics in my college years were mostly malcontents, and one compared this interpretation unfavorably with the Kousssevitzky. The DG Karajan makes a fascinating comparison with this one, which was my first Fifth.
Yes, Karajan is splendid.
Koussevitzky's is very fast, by the way. No lingering.
I will always be championing Bernstein's Sony Sibelius symphonies. It's THE reference set to own IMHO. No. 1, 3, 5 & 7 are particularly special, even 'transcendental' if you like the term.