We love all the Hades characters - but how well do they portray their original Greek Myths? Join us for a chill overview of the pantheon and beyond as we take a look at the care and creative liberty SuperGiant took with their mighty new roguelike! (And hey, maybe you'll learn something along the way!)
Follow the Digital Dream Club on Twitter!
/ digidreamclub
#Hades #HadesGame #SuperGiant
0:00 What's All This Then?
2:50 Chthonic Gods
16:46 Olympian Gods
33:35 Other Myths
43:01 Wrap Up
45:02 A Very Special Blooper
Big disagree on Hermes. In Hades, he knows so much more than he lets on. He knows you escaped. He knows you met Persephone. He knows you are bound to the underworld. But he keeps quiet about it because he knows how bad it would be if the other gods found out. I think that covers your trickster, mischievous, playing people criteria.
Yup same! I was a bit disappointed with that rating!! I would probably give him a 8 or 9.
I'm pretty sure he also knew Skelly's identity and had a few bets going on. Hermes was such a troll (like Obi-Wan levels).
And he lets Zagreus know that he knows. Pretty sly, imo.
Dude he does know so much more like damn he knows when persephone is home and fucking tells you he's not gonna say anything cuz it'll get way worse if everyone found out and if you think about it, it makes so much sense cuz he work with Charon he'll have to know if he goes down there often
_Agreed._
The thing that screamed Greek Mythology to me in this game: If you pick one god over the other, they will RAGE and try to kill you. This sounds pretty accurate to me, based on how many myths I've heard mentioned so far of the gods ruining someone's life over a minor inconvenience. And afterwards, they immediately calm down. Angering Aphrodite was SCARY. She really matched what you mentioned about her Myth version.
I remember watching OSP's playthrough and them getting to a choice between I think Artemis and Aphrodite and they were all like "Oh no, this is like the WORST choice possible! Whichever one we pick, we lose!"
@@CJCroen1393 Where's that playthrough? I REALLY wanna see them play that
Well, gods being dicks to another gave us the whole Odyssey so yeah, pretty on point !
enraged aphrodite is the worst thing in hades, got me an embarrassing amount of times
@@anonguy772 DId you end up finding it? It's here kzhead.info/sun/fdttcZmBo32td3k/bejne.html
Sisyphus is actually pretty humble and mellow in the game because he has been in hell forever. He actually mentions how he used to be a king and that he wasn’t a good person. The whole boulder thing did mellow him out.
Where's your profile pic from?
@@melancholygirl7793 My pfp is by Kaneoya Sachiko. One of my favorite artists.
@@blossomi.2824 Thanks
The guy knocked out thanatos and stuffed him under his bed after he came to take him to the underworld. This literally stopped death from happening for a bit.
Actually there is more to this version of Sisyphus in the game but it doesen't come from Original greek Mythologie but from the french philosopher Albert Camus. He wrote an essay in wich he compared Sysiphoses pointless punichment with the human codition and hopeless search for meaning in an pain and workfull life. His resingful attitude is ,in this essay, the only way how Sysiphos came to peace, by acepting his fate, knowing its unfair and meaningless, through wich he himself gave it meaning. And under this aspect Sysphos is one of the best depicted charackters in the game as well as the game itself is the best depiction of this highly philosophic theme.
My favorite was Nyx. An often overlooked goddess, she's one of the most powerful and oldest gods in Greek mythology. So powerful that even Zeus fears her. However it's her personality that makes me love her. Unlike the Olympians, Nyx is beyond loving and kind, and she loves and coddles her children. She's also the only god in the game to explicitly say "I love you" to Zagreus, even though she's not his biological mother. Even in mythology, her motherly personality is exactly the same in the game despite her power. She's never depicted as vain or petty, just an all powerful goddess everyone fears, except her children whom she deeply loves
She isn’t a goddess technically, she’s an embodiment of night. Similar to how thanatos is the embodiment of death.
Persephone says ‘I love you’ when Zagreus dies after their first meeting I thought.
@@sablonanime650 arguably she's on a level beyond even the Titans. Isn't she a daughter of Chaos itself?
@@SamSphinxyes, she is
She's Gaia's big sister, yeah.
Not to be very very gay but more specifically regarding Achilles and Patroclus, Achilles wasn't pulled out of Elysium because Hades needed someone to train Zagreus, rather Patroclus was not originally meant to go to Elysium (I assume he was supposed to go to Asphodel) but Achilles signed a pact with Hades that would mean Patroclus would take Achilles' place in Elysium, which then led to Achilles being hired by Hades to train Zagreus. All in all, great video y'all! I consider myself verryyyy into Greek myths but I learned more than I expected. Really enjoyable in general!
I came down here right at that point HOPING someone pointed this out. Achilles wanted the best for the man he loved even at the cost of paradise for himself
Sir you are very very gay alright
I thought Patroclus was supposed to be locked in Erebus before Achilles made his deal?
@Genaki Ningen That argument is completely disregarding how Ancient Greek culture worked. Men having relationships with men was normal in ancient Greek culture. There are many examples of this in mythology: eg Zeus and Ganymede, Apollo and Hyacinthus, and Heracles and many many male lovers. There is also famously Alexander the Great and Hephaestion, who notably compared themselves to Achilles and Patroclus with regards to their relationship. With regards to Achilles' family, it was a requirement to have children. Just because Achilles had a wife or children doesn't mean he wasn't in love with Patroclus. Having children was a duty, you had to have a lineage to pass on and cement your legacy. And before you bring up Breiseis either, she not only was viewed as a war prize or loot, but Achilles also said after Patroclus died that he wished she had died instead. Let's not forget that Achilles had his own ashes mixed together with Patroclus' so that they would be together even in death. Not with his wife. If you were to use that same argument on a pair regarded as a heterosexual couple, it would be seen as nonsense. There's no reason to view Achilles and Patroclus' relationship any different. It's not like the view of Achilles and Patroclus as lovers is new, either. Plato famously had a debate about whether Achilles was the erastes (lover) or eromenos (beloved), with Plato's conclusion being that he was the beloved of his and Patroclus's relationship. And of course once again Alexander the Great as I mentioned earlier Achilles went into a rage because of the death of Patroclus. Not because of Breiseis, or his wife or kids, for Patroclus.
I still never understood why Patroclus wouldn’t have been eligible to go straight to Elysium, though. He was a warrior and a kind person, went out in battle, and seems to fit the character description of the type of person who’d have gone to the realm of “good” and heroic souls in the myths. Damned if it’s not great storytelling for the game, though.
I dunno about you but the Hermes I met was *incredibly* trickstery, he kept appearing as my first god boon in Asphodel BEFORE any of the actual gods I equipped boons to guarantee showing up first. And when I took him he would be like "Oh were you expecting someone else?" or something else that sounded smug and cheeky. I hated it but also had to respect the hustle. I learned a bunch of new things from this video! Especially interesting were the story variant where Medusa stayed a priestess for Athena, and about Hypnos' other weird powers which all make sense as part of the domain of Sleep.
He sais something like "they'll be there soon". Such a troll.
Don't forget he was the only one of the Olympians who really knew what was going in the Underworld but kept it to himself. Seems like something a trickster would do.
Didnt theseus once try to kidnap persephone and got chained to a chair until herakles freed him ripping his butt apart
he did and its hilarious he even had this epithet in mythos that can be basically translated to assless
That dude was such a bitch in the myths lol
Really it was his pal, Pirithous who wanted to kidnap Persephone and Theseus just went along with it. That’s actually why Hades allowed Heracles to rescue Theseus but not Pirithous, it wasn’t really Theseus’s idea. Still a hilarious punishment though.
Oooh so more personal beef to beat on Theseus : trying to kidnap mom
@Douglas Bonbeck still yuck
the depiction of ares could me more akin to how sparta or the romans saw him as being mars being more dignified in his perception
That's a fantastic point!
@@TheDigitalDreamClub Yeah Athens made it seem like he was dumb and overly violent god (I mean granted he kind of is but the Athenians brought it to 11).
Yeah, I was going to bring that up to. It seemed like they were simplifying Greece as just Athens when it included a bunch of other city states who worshipped the gods in different capacities.
@@admin.slayerenryu5217 Athenians: "Ares is overly violent!" Spartans: "That's ridiculous, how is it even possible to be 'overly' violent?"
@@shemjaza Only to his enemies😃
I feel Hypnos needs a higher score cause we do get flash backs when we go to sleep so it might be him
Brooo i never realized that untill now! Like were literally sleeping and its all hypnos fault!
@@enternamehere7942 how dare he make us recall our daddy issues 🤣🤣🤣
@@gagedavidson2020 frfr like bro im trying to not to have daddy issues🤦🤦🤦🤣🤣
When we first learnt that Persephone was Zagreus' mother, it was because he asked Hypnos to make everyone at the house of Hades fall asleep so he could sneak around Hade's belongings. Hypnos even made Hades fall asleep to help Zagreus, and I think this shows he is somewhat more powerful than we can imagine.
Mythological Nyx: If you're saying I play favorites, you're wrong. I love all my children equally. Hades Nyx: (sippin on nectar) I don't care for Hypnos.
[Hades] Nyx: Hypnos must learn the sleep without my aid.
She cares about Hypnos it's that Hypnos is like an addict
also hermes is smart in the game he is the only omlympian god who is aware of what zageus actual goal was or knew that he made it to the surface
Here's an addition with some justice for Dusa: I spoke with a friend of mine who is also deep into mythology and he brought to my attention that the Medusa myth as most people know it was written by Ovid during Roman rule (that is to say, not technically Greek mythology). Medusa proper is just a gorgon, not a priestess turned gorgon. If I were to rate Dusa as just another gorgon who is anxious due to self confidence issues, I would give her an 8/10. Her adaptation is still very cute and appealing so we run into the same problem as the Furies, but overall she's just a funky little monster gal.
ok so have you guys seen the JT Music Hades rap
I don’t think Dusa is Madusa I think they specifically mentioned that in game I believe they said she was a gorgon born in asphodel
So I’m autistic and Persephone is my special interest and I thought I could share with you some of my knowledge about her. I’m currently studying classical archaeology at university so that I can make learning more about Persephone my full time job. As you know, Hellenistic deities were highly multifaceted and they all varied greatly across time and place, and Persephone was no different. Much like Dionysus and Hermes, she carried a great deal of nuance and variation. If one only interprets Persephone through her worship at Eleusis she might come across as a more passive character because that story primarily focuses on Demeter and her loss. However, it is important that we also consider her worship at other sanctuaries such as Locri in southern Italy, along with more individual cults such as the Orphics, Dionysians, and the Pythagoreans. Each of these communities had their own unique perception of the goddess. For these people Persephone was more of a goddess who represented not just new life, but was a powerful queen who more so than Hades determined one’s fate in the afterlife. Her name is Persephone because to certain communities she literally was the destroyer of light, bringer of death, dread queen of the afterlife, holder to the keys of both eternal punishment and reward, as well as the giver of new life. Additionally we must consider her origins in the Mycenaean period where we know for certain that written record of her name predates Hades’. (Hot take here but from my own research Hades was practically invented just to give the Dread Queen a husband to go with the whole oppressive patriarchy thing) But yeah, to say that Persephone is a damsel in distress type character isn’t entirely accurate to her overall perception across the Hellenistic world. This is just kind of a mini essay off the top of my head, but if you want I can totally find you some sources if you’re interested! I could literally talk about Persephone all day every day. Oh and one last thing before I forget! The Hymn to Zagreus that Orpheus sings is practically a literal translation of a Hymn to Dionysus from the 5th century bce written by the Orphics. It was only very slightly changed for the game and when I first heard it I nearly snapped my freaking wrist from stimming so hard. It was great
Something i also find interesting is that Hades is pretty much, all around, not a huge jerk bag compared to all of his other brothers and is actually a good wife to Persephone! My favorite gods/goddesses are personally Hades, Persephone, Dyonisus and Eros, just for the sole reason that they just seem pretty chill
I was really surprised about them rating Dionysus 4/10 and not rating Zagreus. The entire game is modeled after the orphic mysteries not Homer's version of the myths - it's why he's trying to reach the surface over and over. And there's even all these conversations between the two, saying they look alike and even stating outright that they're the same person - a reference to Persephone being the first mother of Dionysus before he was reborn to Semele. It's that same Kore/Persephone rebirth cycle. Didn't Orpheus even say in the game that they were going to write a song about him? And then you have the one of Zagreus, which like you said is exactly the same as the Orphic hymn of Dionysus?
Implying that Orpheus founded an entire religion based on a prank! Brilliant of the creators to both acknowledge their source material, and provide an in-universe justification for splitting Dionysus and Zagreus into separate individuals.
@@ethankaledp8174 Persephone ain’t chill
I was hoping someone in the comments would say this :D
Something that’s interesting to me is how much modern audiences gravitate towards Hades. When I was a kid reading the retold versions of the myths, I remember thinking, “Huh, Hades is one of the only ones who isn’t a jerk.”
I guess the true lesson is they’re all jerks, just in different ways lol
Starting to see that is a running theme of underworld gods. Realms of dead tend to have lots of rules so you need a lawful person to run them, a thankless but needed job.
I guess it makes sense in a way. The sea, the sky, they're inconsistent. The dead? They stay dead and that's that. Death is one of the most stable things on earth, so it makes sense for a god of the dead to be consistent.
I will say for the Furies, when I was reading up about them I found that they are less the embodiments of jealousy, rage and murder and that those are the things they punish. Meg punishes infidelity and people who break promises/trust, Alecto punishes moral crimes like anger and Tisiphone punishes murderers (hence why she's constantly accusing Zagreus of murder). From this perspective, Meg actually lines up for Hades really well considering that when you do romance other people, Zag talks to her about it and keeps her up to date with developments that are happening outside of his relationship with her. As one last aside, as someone who is polyamorous, jealousy doesn't prohibit those kind of relationships, it just means they require more communication. Now, Meg herself does admit that she's not jealous so if they were going for the personification of jealousy, they definitely could've pushed it further, but I think if they were going for her hating cheaters then the amount of communication her and Zag have about his other partners is telling enough that she feels strongly about dishonesty and secrets in relationships which does line up well with her mythological counterpart.
I was looking for someone who was saying this!
For a "pedantic rant that completely disregards the game's internal logic purely to look at its adherence to original mythology" this is so nuanced and level-headed and chill and I love how some of the things that you take points off for are also things you acknowledge make the story of the game better. I learned tons of about Greek mythology too so thank you very much!
That's the vibe we go for. Glad you enjoyed it!
Hey, with Hermes being a bit of a trickster, I think it’s important to remember that he is separated from all the other Olympians. He’s helping you in secret with Charon (hence him having no “Duo” boons), and knows that the story Persephone tells is a lie way before it’s told. He is playing basically everyone, which lines up with that sly trickster aspect
I'd argue they showed off Hermes intelligent deceiving side well in that he knew more about the situation with Zagreus and Persephone than any of the other god, and was constantly keeping them out of the loop. Also that Thesus is a meat head in mythology in that he straight up forgets to fly the right flag when returning home which kills his dad, and tries to go down to the underworld and kidnap Persephone with his friend.
In the game achilles said that he gave up his spot in elysium for Patroclus that’s why he couldn’t see him and why he worked in the house of hades serving him
I'm not knocking the game because it is an excellent story with a sweet romance. However in this case she is completely wrong. In the earliest sources that mention anything about the life of Achilles none of them describe Achilles as having a romantic relationship with men. The most stretched interpretation would be that he had mourned the loss of one of his closest officers and friends.
You cannot understand how happy as a mythology buff i was to hear about dionysus and zagreus playfully trick Orpheus into thinking that Zag was dionysus because that was an actual mythological conflation with Orphic Dionysus (aka the crazier one). He and Zagreus were often either confused or just kinda interchangeable, the only difference being whether Zeus or Hades was the father for Dionysus and Zag respectively. But yeah I geeked out at that bit
I think a lot of Sisyphus' design/attitude in the game takes inspiration from Albert Camus' essay 'The Myth of Sisyphus.' At least, that's how I interpreted it. Regardless, super great video! I appreciate the research and time that goes into everything y'all upload :)
In a Reddit AMA the writer said he didn't actually know that. It was a happy coincidence that he reached a similar interpretation of the myth to Camus.
I made a similar connection between Sisyphus in Hades and the Camus essay. But good to know about that Reddit AMA.
A t h l e t i c t w i n k~
Didn’t Persephone crush a nymph Minthe for just flirting with Hades. She argued with Aphrodite over Adonis.
she turned her into a mint plant lmao
@@crazytidy2426 pfff- so- she pulled a pun? Cause- cause Minthe, MINThe XDDD
@@madmouse1016 More like its the origin of the plant's name, like how Narcissus turned into the Narcissus plant, or how Echo became a literal echo
@@CrownofMischief let- let me make a pun TvT
Persephone was very chill with Leuke, even made her tree (the white poplar) into her sacred tree. She was pissed off at Minthe because that one bragged about how she was so much better and would steal Hades away from Persephone.
I love that the god of hunting, life and children is more edgy than one of the gods of death Also the Greeks wrote gods that they hated, love that
Yeah, Artemis is badass and Thanatos is gentle, doesnt match what we associate with "hunting" and "death" now-a-days 😂 And despite what was said in the video, the Greeks didnt "make up any gods they hated" but more like different parts, cities, cultures etc. inside Ancient Greece & surroundings believed in all the gods but held certain gods in higher esteem than others. Like the people of Athens believed Athena to be their patreon goddess so they worshipped her and depicted "her rival" Ares as a stupid coward, while for example the people of Sparta absolutely loved Ares and depicted him as the mightiest of all gods. Like a noble woman would seek help from different gods than lets say a sailor boy, depending on what aspects were most important to their lives. So what myths and depictions we know of today are based on & biased by who actually documented them and most sources we have are from Athenians.
@@Mercyfalls I mean... To be fair Thanatos is the god of _MERCIFUL_ death so I could see him being more gentle than say...a god of violent deaths... Also as someone else once said the idea of making Death a Tsundere is genius because chances are they wouldn't necessarily have very good social skills/a good grasp on social norms.
@@diamondseraph9369 Thanatos is actually the god of all deaths with exception of deaths in the battlefield. In a war there is so much death that three Keres sisters (they are also sisters of Thanatos) was needed for all deaths. At least one time even Hades himself got in a battle to collect the souls and was hurt by Heracles in this same battle.
"Persephone retrieval arc" sold me on this channel
Dudes: Zagreus was a minor god in Greek mythology, usually conflated with the god of wine, Dionysus. He was worshipped by the followers of Orpheus, and according to their beliefs, he was the son of Zeus and Persephone... Lol. Dionysus brings THIS UP!
And pulls a prank on poor Orpheus xD
Yeah, from what little I was able to research, this part of the game pretty much checks all the possible boxes you could have checked for Zagreus, even the ones that conflict with each other. XD
actually have no idea where u got that chaos thundere thing because i saw it as them being just too alien and old to understand a lot of things, like a parental love or zag's attempts to honor them they are making an attempt and they told it themselves that it took them time t understand that they want nix around, and when they did they just keep mentioning her to zag and how they wish to see her again and how they reacted almost rude to zag being friendly and gifting them because they didnt understand the intent but when they did they started saying things like "ah, i enjoy our meetings" or "u entertain me" or "there is my favorite son of hades" so i'd say chaos just way too antient and it takes them time and effort to understand or care for some things but when they do they definitely care i honestly think chaos is just top notch character-wise
Zeus’s “screw everything with a pulse” mentality is brought up by other gods when you get combined boons ( and by hades) I think the gods are trying to keep there air of perfection around there nephew that they are just meeting (Edit) hermes is the only one that figures out that you actually can’t leave the underworld but decides to keep it secret from the other gods
There is even a dialogue that Zeus gives with a boon where he says “I suppose even down in the Underworld, you would have heard such tales of me, young man. They’re all untrue, hahaha! Except the tales of my bravery. Those are completely accurate, though all too modest, in most cases, I must say.” Definitely think these stories he is saying that are untrue are the ones about how he couldn’t keep it in his pants.
@@parkerking6410 agreed
no, Zeus is more screw everything with a second X chromosome. He wasn't much for diddling men. Poseidon on the other hand has no qualms about diddling anything with a pulse. He got together with the Gorgon Medusa and Euriyale which produced Pegasus and Orion, respectively. NO I AM NOT REFERENCING OVID'S VERSION OF MEDUSA. SHUT UP! ATHENA DIDN'T DO SHIT AND SHE IS OFTEN PROTRAYED IN A VERY UNCHARACTERISTIC WAY BY OVID WHERE SHE IS SELFISH AND TEMPERMENTAL BUT STILL DOES NOT TAKE AWAY FROM THE FACT THAT HE IS NO DIFFERENT FROM ZEUS WHEN IT COMES TO WANTING TO BANG SOMEONE BECAUSE THEY'RE PRETTY/HANDSOME BY BASICALLY FORCING THEM TO DO SO. There is also the other version of Tantalus' myth where he takes Pellops , Tantalus' son, to Olympus to get down and busy with him.
Honestly I just like to say that most of the Greek gods are just yes sexual. Like... Is it alive? Yes? They're attracted to it. Is it not alive? Yes? They're attracted to it. Is it an inanimate object? Yes? Honestly probably attracted to it. Is it an animal? Yes? Hate to say it but probably attracted to it. Are they mortal? Yes? They're attracted to them. Are they immortal? Yes? They're attracted to them. Can they move? Yes? They're attracted to it/them. Do they have a pulse? Yes? They're attracted to it. Are they the same gender? Yes? They're attracted to them. Are they the opposite gender? Yes? They're attracted to them. Do they not fall under one particular category? Yes? They're attracted to them. Are they related in any way shape or form? Yes? They're almost _DEFINITELY_ attracted to them.
@@diamondseraph9369 I'm surprised that there was someone more horny than Zeus in the mythology. Zeus had to ban him so that he could keep his title- I'm talking about Ixion of course, who was really attracted to Hera and banged a cloud nymph made by Zeus that SIMPLY looked like her Poor Nephele, came into existence to immediately be violated.
Hypnos does put everyone to sleep in the House of Hades at some point to let Zagreus snoop around in this kind of dream state and that’s how he finds out about his mother, so they didn’t completely nerf him.
About Athena you forgot to mention the Medusa head design she has on her waist, in mythology it's a symbol she has on her shield to scare her enemies, I was glad they added it at least somewhere in her design
I totally missed that detail! Great get, and thanks for the addition!
Sisyphus’ laid back character actually shares a very uncanny similarity to the existential essay “The Myth of Sisyphus” which talks about the mythological figure and how he would eventually mellow out and accept his place in Tartarus after realizing his task is not completable. The creators have said that it was unintentional but it’s an interesting coincidence
"One must imagine sisyphus happy"
With the design if Orpheus, I'm guessing its a reference to the comic series "The Sandman". In the series Orpheus is the son of a character know as Dream the Endless who looks a lot like this game's design of Orpheus. This is just a guess though.
I think it's partly that but mostly that they're drawing from the same well reference-wise, namely Robert Smith from The Cure. Funnily enough, Eurydice does mention that Orpheus was tanned and curly-haired when alive, suggesting that he just "went emo" after dying, which honestly, mood
Let's not forget that Dream/Sandman's alternate name is Morpheus as well
Neil Gaiman is married to a singer...perhaps Sandman Orpheus and frontliner Eurydice is a nod to Amanda Palmer as well?
The helm of darkness didn’t just grant invisibility, it also allowed him to essentially become darkness itself. The fear of the dark coming with it, so essentially hades can become fear itself with the helm. Also chaos while being the primordial originator, was also a place. I know this because after Hera tried and failed a coup of Olympus. Zeus tied her up and dangled her over chaos itself. Constantly threatening to drop her. Until Hephaestus frees her. Also it’s great to hear someone explain how batshit insane Aphrodite is. She’s responsible for a lot of tragic fates in the myths. Especially when they are for her own gain. (The myth of Atalanta comes to mind)
I dont want to take your fun, but Chaos is not a separate place in greek mythology. His name is literaly used for the Air or the Gap or Void. Hera was hunged up from Olympus in the Sky, so she was stuck in the air, not in another place called Chaos. The only other "dimension" in greek mythology is Tartarus, the place full of storms and magma where defeated gods are chained (most people believe this Tartarus to be the place where wicked humans are punished, but it is actually very different places, one is in Hades, the realm of the dead, while the other is even bellow Hades itself).
Thanatos is non-violent death, which can still still be painful. A lesser known being, Makaria, is actually 'blessful' death
The depiction of gods and goddesses varied from city to city. Athens paints Ares as a violent meathead and Aphrodite as a vengeful sex pot who’s not a fighter but Sparta viewed them differently. In that city, Ares had a more dignified and protective light, being the patron of soldiers. Meanwhile Aphrodite was seen as more warlike and was often depicted with a spear, which is true her middle eastern roots (as her cult came from Phoenicia in the form of Astarte).
Historians are unfortunately always going to be biased towards the accounts of the people who wrote the most stuff down through no fault of their own. I’m not surprised that the Athenian depictions have lived on so prominently. Very interesting!
@@nomen4787 yeah I find it fascinating how city states viewed the gods differently, and how this led to fleshed out, multi-faceted personalities of the gods.
I feel that we see limited aspects such as Zues and Ares good sides and Artemis's soft side because these are the fronts they are presenting to Zagreus more so than anything else
Skelly "jokingly" mentioned that he was schelemeus one time so there might be something there but idk greek mythology that much
Asterius also comments that he recognizes the name, and Skelly later says that he never said he was lying, only that he knew Zag would never believe him.
Can confirm he's Schelemeus.
I mean in her earliest recorded (and surviving) Hellenistic myths Persephone is specifically referred to as “the Terrible, Dread Persephone. Queen of the Underworld, Feared among all Men” So I gotta wonder what myths were lost that earned Persephone such a reputation and titles. And why did the Hellenistic Greeks strive to change her reputation so much?
Another great note on Thanatos, yes, I know, I'm late, but HE HAS HIS SWORD. Thanatos has only gained the Scythe in more modern interpretations, but classically, he has a Sword, and you can see it still strapped to his hip in his design here. As if it's his trusty blade, and the Scythe is something he is trying out or learning more about.
Another reason Hades wears alot of rings in this game is because when Zagreus was born, his tiny feet burned his fingers!
Wasnt Zagreus stillborn, so his feet werent on fire?
@@shayfarrelly6789 born alive, then “died”. After your first escape it’s mentioned that Zag’s feet when out shortly after his birth, leading to the fact that Persephone didn’t know Zag was alive.
One thing I liked about Hades is that they explained some of the inconsistencies with the mythology as mortals either stretching the truth or the gods straight up giving them misinformation. Like Zagreus and Dionysus play a prank on Orpheus to make him believe they split from the same being, which has mythological precedence. And apparently Zeus in here had a habit of seeing a really cool Greek Hero and saying "that's actually my son" even though half the time he had nothing to do with them, and apparently it was Zeus that told everyone that Theseus was Poseidon's son(which he is in the myth), but Poseidon in-game denies having anything to do with him.
I'd argue that though the characterization of Persephone is good in that they give her agency that isn't considered in the original abduction myth, I think there is some room for improvement in the depiction of her role in the Underworld. There are multiple original stories that showcase her power, influence, and importance as Queen of the Dead and I feel like that's downplayed in the game immensely. In that sense she feels less powerful than original myths, like she was heavily feared and revered lol
We don’t have any surviving myths detailing why she was referred to as “Dread Persephone, Feared among all Men.” We know she had that title, as that’s how the Hymn of Deméter and the Iliad refer to her. But we also know that following the return of writing to Greece they went out of their way to make here into a much “Nicer” character (which is probably why those myths of the feared queen of the Underworld didn’t survive)
How? She took charge once she got into the underworld; She's the one that allowed Hades to make peace with his family. Many instances in the game characters actually praise her, even Zeus did.
@@Kingdomkey123678 we actually have at least one story. In the Odyssey, Odysseys became scared in the underworld, believing that Persephone would sent ghosts and the Gorgon head to torn him appart. So she have powers over all dead things too just like Hades.
Fun fact: Cerberus can be roughly translated to mean spotted. So, in mythology canon, Hades named the three headed guard dog of the underworld 'Spot'.
They mention Thanatos being god of peaceful death in the game! - may be spoilers - if I remember correctly, Zagreus asks Thanatos about Achilles' pact (or asks him if he know him? I'm not sure) and Thanatos basically answers Idk, I didn't bring him here because he died at the war. I was so surprised when he said that because I thought Thanatos brought everybody to Charon and Charon took them to Underworld. Turns out no, that wasn't the case. I thought it was cool, Supergiant deserves every bit of compliments they get.
I wonder if Orpheus' design was a choice to give a nod to his part in Neil Gaiman's Sandman series. In that series Orpheus is a tragic son of Dream (named Oneiros in the series).... And if you've seen Dream with his absolute goth look and insane hair.. it fits quite well.
I just found your video and it's great, thank you for that! But as a big Ares girl I would like to point out that view on him is always one sided. As Spartans which were guided by Ares were Athenians' biggest competitor the second ones liked to portrait him as barbarian douchebag to discredit Sparta. And since Athenians were better in writing and spreading their myth we are now familiar only with their perspective. For Spartans Ares was the ideal of manhood and courage ( which again contradicts athenians' portrayal of coward). Also unlike many other male gods there is no myth regarding Ares taking woman by force. And in Sparta women were much more respected and well treated unlike to other polises, especially Athens. Which may set the idea that Ares also establishes the standard of woman-man relations and drinks his respeect women juice daily. Moreover, there is another myth where he kills Poseidon's son because he raped his daughter and he was at rage when Achilles killed one of his Amazon daughters. In general Ares was one of the best god dads who cared deeply for both his sons and daughters. I also remember reading the information that in other polises Athena guided the elite and upper class whereas Ares was worshiped by commoners and mothers sent him their cries to protect their sons in war. Overall, I was filled with joy seeing such a great and fresh portrayal of Ares as this polite mastermind. Especially with such amazing and hot design.))) P.S. Sorry for my grammar. English is my second language and I still have a lot of to improve
Even if you don't have confidence in your grammar you only made one mistake, which is great! I'm American and my grammar has a mistake of some kind pretty much every day.
Don't mess with Aphrodite Diomedes: spear go brrrr
A lot of people have brought up that the trickster side to Hermes does get some nods in the game, but one thing I haven't seen brought up is that the game eventually heavily implies that he's the one behind Skelly being hired as a punching bag for Zagreus. (Hermes will slyly mention Skelly's trinket if you're using it, and Zag can question Skelly about it later and iirc Skelly will rebuff Zag's questions and allude to it being a secret he's not supposed to reveal.) This is fun because Hermes was one of the later gods added into the game during early access, and he's also one of the gods that shows up later in the 1.0 version of the game as well, so he makes a few jokes about how, yeah, he's the fast one, so he should've shown up sooner.. But he's actually been helping Zag behind the scenes from very early on! I will say that for most of the stuff you mention as deviations, they do tend to have at least a few lines here or there acknowledging it. Like, Demeter has a lot of lines alluding to Zeus's less than savory reputation (and I think it comes up occasionally with other gods too), so there's definitely an indication that Zeus might be putting on a bit of an act with Zagreus. And much like Sisyphus, Dusa does have some lines about having been a different person in the past. Actually, there's even a line from Eurydice where she asks Zagreus if Orpheus still has a cute mop of curly hair, to Zag's confusion, so even the weirdness of his character design gets a nod. Not to invalidate this video at all, I think it has a ton of good info! I mostly just find it interesting how the more I hear about the original myths, the more I realize there's nods to them in the game. Almost as if SG is tipping their hat and saying "yeah, we know, we're making a deliberate choice to deviate from the original myth here."
It definitely detracts from Hypnos' accuracy that he got saddled as the comic relief. He's still a very memorable character though
Two things to add: I was kinda sad that they didnt include the gorgon head on Athenas shield, because in archaeology whenever you find a female statue with a gorgon head it is Athena. It is a pretty integral part of her armor. Also another great example of Athenas association with war is that Sparta also worshipped her and had her as a city goddess. Which obviously makes the war(s) between Sparta and Athens even more interesting.
Apparently at one point Aphrodite was actually a war god
There are some small little details that do reference to the leyends of the characters, like how Achilles' trinket makes you take more damage from behind, dyonisus has the pine cone wand, the demeter simbol being a plant instead of a snowflake (for being the "ice" upgrade god) or how hermes has the "side hustle" boon might be a reference to how many domains he has.
34:59 isn't there a thing where Achilles says he gave up his spot in Elysium to stay with Patroclus?
Someplaces says that Zagreus was a god of hunt and rebirth. I think it's quite neat that Artemis tries to befriend Zag and even asks him to go hunting with her, since both of them share an aspect.
I mean with Theseus, he does often use Athena’s boons and fighting him is fucking hard. His defense is a fucking impervious and he fights pretty cleverly. Also! Dionysus not liking him because he abandoned his wife on an island and so wine man went to her! Because that was a thing that Theseus did!
the thing about Persephone tho is that she should look scarier, or at the very least not like a middle aged mom who works at the ymca greenhouse every other day. she was not referred to by name in ancient times because she was the literal Queen of Hell! nobody wanted to get her attention because she was so damn powerful and scary and associated with the dead (and minor detail but some descriptions say that Persephone had darker hair when she was in the underworld and light hair on Earth)
I think what probably gives Hades his overpowering feeling in this game is that the player sees him through Zagreus' eyes. Hades makes little contact outside of the underworld, but within it he is the absolute focal point. Thanatos really is done well, considering one of the main stories where I remember him from is one where he appears rather human (the Iliad). I also gave bonus points to his design for having the sword by his side. The sword is actually a detail I saw on him a fair bit in the myths I know. I think the scythe is probably a more recent addition, but I did see a painting of the character Mors (Roman parallel) that had one. Apparently, according to Homer, it was Aphrodite who caused Zeus to be the sex machine he was. So, yeah, she's got power all right. I can't remember who wrote it (possibly Homer again), but towards the latter part of the era that much mythology comes from, a more heroic side of Ares appeared (this would become Mars to the Romans). He was an iron-fisted leader, tactical genius, had knowledge from experience, and had endless courage. I noticed that side was more present in the game. So I gave him a few more points given that he appeared to be that later depiction (but still named "Ares"). I like the little reference to early myths of Dionysus and an individual who was called "Zagreus" (a god associated with rebirth, interestingly) they included in the game. I'm wondering if in-game Theseus might have had a bit too much water from Lethe or something. I'll have to go through some dialogue to see. He may have lost some of his former intelligence that way. Also, curiously, I often read stories where Theseus would go to Tartarus for his attempted pass at Persephone. As close as the pun is, I'm pretty sure Medusa says herself in the game that she was formed from Medusa's blood like the other heads you fight. But, maybe she was just trying to distance herself.
Hermes in just about everything: A really nice guy 👍🏻
They don't really gloss over the terrible things Zeus has done. Maybe what you mean by "glossed over" is that whenever Zeus talks, he makes himself look good which fits his proud and narcissistic character. Zeus just makes his exploits more 'palatable' but when Demeter brings up how sick his jokes are, she's disgusted. Even the other gods kind of dislike Zeus in a more "putting up with him" way.
1. One of the more interesting things is that Zagreus has some odd connections to Dionysus, see OSP's Dionysus video if you haven't already. 2. One of my least favorite parts of the game is that Hephaestus, my favorite Olympian, and Apollo were both left out of the game. I don't know why they decided the Daedalus upgrades would be based on Daedalus, a mortal man, when Hephaestus would have made slightly more sense. Apollo in some legends the god of the sun and Artemis the goddess of the moon. They could have given them boons based on the sun and moon and split the archery based boons between them.
15:12 My only problem with your ranking of Thanatos is that he’s missing his primary design detail. The one consistent thing about his appearance are his wings! Almost every depiction of him in Greek mythology includes his wings.
One thing that I love is that they didn't shy away from Patroclus and Achilles being gay. If they had, I would say that I would have less respect for them, but then again I probably wouldn't have even known in the first place.
this is exactly the video i was looking for, thanks for making it even if it's not widely appealing!
One thing I actually thought about was actually who the Gods are presenting themselves to. They are talking to Zagreus, someone who at the start of the game they think is trying to come to Olympus, so they are trying to make themselves come off as presentable and more refined. So take Ares, who wants to make himself come off as more refined than he actually is. Basically they're trying to make themselves look good to motivate Zag with the promise of a family.
Okay, but can someone please explain to me why Hypnos's keepsake is literally just a pouch of gold?
maybe since his brother is the shopkeep? can’t think of anything having to do with his actual myth, but the connection to charon could be why
Seeing his keepsake gets me confused everytime i see it, i keep thinking that its charon's.
@@enternamehere7942 Yeah same
Bruh I thought it was some red poofy undies for some reason 😂😂😂
Maybe he expects you to buy some freaking pillows or something idk.
Did I hear a the Orion Experience reference in the Dionysus part lol
I’M FEELIN’ DEVIOUS YOU’RE LOOKIN’ GLAMOROUS LET’S GET MISCHIEVOUS AND POLYAMOROUS!
This was a great video that deserves more views. What do you think of Ares's weird attraction to Nyx as depicted in the game? Was Ares ever very lustful in myth? Also happy for our boy Thanatos for his 10/10 depiction.
he laid plenty of times with aphrodite, the only olympian who truly liked him, and he was a god so he is lustful
@Genaki Ningen Why did you write an essay to me in youtube comments? I didn't read it.
@@jamieohjamie ya theyre the same person whos just straight up homophobic about patrochilles as if supergiant "made" them gay so do not listen to them
@@actualcatboy5762 "alphabet" lmao
@Genaki Ningen You either need less or more friends. Also Hypocrite much? You're complaining about people reading too much into things and misinterpreting, but you're the one imagining the potential details of sexual intercourse of characters for no reason. Do you look at every couple on the street (and apparently video games) and think 'damn, she's gonna spitshine his wang so hard tonight'? Ew. Also, what's up with complaining about minor pseudo-incest in the game when your point is inaccuracy? How can you complain about mythological accuracy without noticing that all the gods were railing each other with no regard for incest?
With Skelly in the game, there’s a fan theory I really love where he’s actually Odysseus, since he is a self proclaimed ‘Nobody’, and while he claims he was a famed sailor who died in Chyribdis, he later claims that ‘Skelemeus’ persona was a fake (which I mean it’s obvious), but he only ever claims that he was not Skelemeus, not that he was not a famed sailor.
Sisyphus in game is more based on that philosphical saying "one must imagine sisyphus happy", rather than his mythology. I think it just means although him rolling the boulder up the hill has no meaning in the end he should still find a way to take enjoyment out of it just as people should take enjoyment out of their life even if in reality life is likely meaningless.
Poseidons beard looks like kelp or seaweed or smth
Patrocleus and Achilles with the mirrored poses is heat
May the divine blessing of Asclepius bless your work in The Covid Lab
30:00 I think Hermes is represented as a smart guy at least in one moment of the game. He has a dialogue which states that he figured out Zag isn't really going out of the Underworld to get to Olympus. Which is more than anyone else on that mountain has managed to do.
A note to talk about for Sisyphus is that there is an existentialist essay called “The Myth of Sisyphus” where they take Sisyphus’ punishment and compare it to concepts of existentialism. In this essay, it puts forth the idea that Sisyphus is actually able to find joy in his predicament through his mindset. I’m not really doing the essay justice, but I have to wonder if the game developers took note of this essay and used it to base who Sisyphus has become for his character design in Hades.
Replying to bump this further up in the comments section because I was going to say it myself. He’s still inaccurate to the mythology of course but it’s a cool philosophical allusion!
Hermes has a wager for you to beat charon so many times in a row so he does have a mischievous side in the game too.
oh my god, Vall-hal-A soudtrack in the backgroud🥺✨💗 thanks you so much for this video!!
Every picture of Poseidon I’ve seen he has that same beard
I disagree with Charon, in the stories he appears in he's actually pretty chatty and talkative so the fact he just grumbles, grunts and I guess screeches (?) in the game seems kinda off to me, I'd give him more of a 7 or 8 considering in pretty much every other aspect he's depicted very well
Love seeing videos here!
Tbh, I don't really like how Ares is usually depicted in Pop culture. Like, this edgy idiot who only thinks on war. He has a softer side too, he is one of the few gods that doesn't have any major myth where he is molesting a women (and Tbh I can't think of any minor one either), there is actually a myth where he avenges his daughter after a son of poseidon rapes her, which most of the other gods neither understand nor think is right since she was "only a girl", there is a trial and all. He is the father of the Amazons, he is the patron of Sparta, which... I mean, it's not precisely a "Huga huga" mindless destruction society. Yes, war is central, but they believe in him as a God of... Soldiers, mostly? Enyalio. Which is the closests Greece gets to Mars... Dunno, I just think making him a brainless sadistic idiot is just... Too lazy.
I know this may not be valuable information but; The Goddess of Youth is Hebe, one of Zeus and Hera's Children among Ares and Hephestus, the 4th Wife of the Greek Hero, Heracles, And Demeter is the Goddess of the Harvest but she is The one credited to control the seasons, Therefor Persephone is not the Goddess of Spring but she is in one of her titles the Bringer of Spring, The Only thing that Persephone has Domain over Is the Underworld, as she is the Underworld's Queen
Orpheus isn’t emo, he’s a traditional 80s goth based on Robert Smith from the Cure :)
Just gonna say that dusa should be a 3/10. The story of Medusa being a priestess of Athena came very late compared to the stories that she was born a gorgon with her sisters
I think Orpheus's design is supposed to be based on Dream from The Sandman, because in The Sandman Orpheus is Dream's son.
@The digital dream club to add to 35:00 not only did Hades take Achillies out of Elysium to train Zagerus, but in exchange Patroclus was allowed to take his place there, its why hes so morose and upset at being there becuase he feels he doesnt deserve his place and he's seperated from his lover.
One of my favorite videos.
Great video, loved your analysis! I just wanted to make a nitpick and say that Medusa originally being a prietess of Athena at 38:12 was a version presumably only created by the roman author Ovid; earlier versions normally didn't mention she and her fellow gorgon sisters being anything other than monsters.
I think we do get a good showing of Poseidon's temperament when you decide not to take his boon when two are offered at the same time. Even after you cleared his trial he does not appear to be completely calmed down. At some point you are also tasked by Poseidon to kick Theseus's ass on Extreme Measures 3. PS: You did not rate Bouldy, but we all know he is a 10/10.
I love Artemis too, so let me add one more myth about her.." When a woman made fun of her mother , that although she gave birth to only 2 children they both became gods while this woman had 12 (6 of each) and they were simple mortals, Artemis and her brother Apollo punished her by killing her 6 boys in a wild hunt and slaugthering her 6 girls in front of her eyes." talking about ruthless rigth there !
You love someone who murdered 6 innocent children? tf did the children ever do to her? just punish Niobe and leave her kids alone it's not their fault their moms a dumbass heck if anything I kinda feel bad for Niobe,she was a bitch but didn't deserve to see her kids slaughtered,no mother should but i guess compared to other dieties Artemis is "chill" as you can get
@@whytho1534 yeah also it's mostly just a myth so all I take from this is that i really like Artemis attitude and character. That's what i mean when i say I love her. And surely Niobe didnt deserve this but still that's what it makes this certain "story" so appealing. The exaggeration.
I'd like to add that whenever you beat Than (or tie with him) in a duel he'll give you a heart to increase your max HP. He's essentially giving you (his best friend/crush/lover/whatever) something to help make you stronger so you can go further in and essentially help keep you safe. And even he is keepsake helps you to get stronger (and incentivizes you to not take damage) with him even acknowledging that you have it equipped and offering to take care of all the enemies so that you can get stronger...and if you have Mort equipped he'll comment on how he's glad you're bringing him (Mort) along so that he (Than) can keep a better eye on you.... All of this shows even further how he's actually really gentle and caring and...dare I say...kind of merciful (I mean, his keepsake could have incentivized taking more damage to increase damage output or killing enemies regardless of whether or not you take damage to get stronger which would possibly be more fitting for a god of death (or Ares but ignoring that)...but not really a god of _MERCIFUL_ death) in the fact that he doesn't want you to get hurt. He even tells Zag at one point that "I want you (Zag) to come back _VOLUNTARILY_ " presumably at least partially because he doesn't want him to die a painful death and would rather him come back of his own accord. So yeah, definitely gentle. And also probably one of the most wholesome and adorable characters in the game at least in regards to his interactions with Zag once you really delve deep into the hidden meanings in his interactions (and assuming you're fluent in Tsundere like I am).
Reading this made me feel so warm inside
Dionysus despite being my favorite Olympian by far is something I will agree is too mellow in Hades to be considered accurate. He and Poseidon are my favorite Olympians in the game for being so chill, but both of them sort of dropped the “literally will tear you apart” and “attempting to kill multiple sailors” bit
the thing about hades and wealth is a bit backwards because it actually comes from the times romans conquered greeks and engaged in some god-stealing they had this habit of mashing foreign gods with their local gods and sometimes were quite sloppy in it so hades basically by mistake got mashed with both the local got of the dead Pluton AND a god of wealth Plutus Hellenic hades was not a god of riches, so while it makes perfect sense for supergiant to make him one in a game and it technically IS mythos-accurate, there is some depth to this particular fact not a jab, im just a mythos-nerd myself and thought its an unteresting bit of lore
I think the minotaur at one point talks about how he was always this way, but he was angry and hungry in the labyrinth so that's why he was the way he was before dying. I might be misremembering
Can't wait for your analysis of the new characters that will appear in the second game.
You nailed Aphrodite
I don't know if someone said this, however, you missed one. the bolder. personal rating 10/10
Sisyphus does mention after a while that he was a different man in life who did some bad things, so there’s definitely the implication that his punishment for who knows how long has mellowed him out so he would be different from his myth version
Oh, another thing about Thanatos and Hypnos. In the actual myths, they actually do not dislike each other, they are very good brothers. So good, in fact, that they sleep in the same bed together. As *full grown adults*.
Thank you SO much for acknowledging Dionysus’ complexity! So many people just don’t know about it and that’s sad. I would have given him more points, though, for two reasons - one, they were still pretty on the mark (compared to the monstrosity that is Percy Jackson’s version), and two, because they split Dionysus and Zagreus into separate people. Without Zagreus, Dionysus loses a bit of that complexity, but it’s forgivable for the game’s purposes.
I thought I'd give my two cents about some of the Cthonic gods: *ZAGREUS* It's true that there's not much we have to go off of for our favourite prince of the Underworld, BUT what we do have associates him with Orphic Dionysos, so it's such a brilliant detail that the two of them decide to prank Orpheus. It's all a bit complex and convoluted because the Orphic mystery cult was wild, but there's a fragment from a lost epic (big poem) called "Alcmeonis" which goes: "Mistress Earth, and Zagreus highest of all gods". There's other stuff involving Protodionysos/Orphic Dionysos/Zagreus/Whatever about being dismembered by the Titans and reborn, which is mentioned in "Hymn to Zagreus" in the game!!! The many conflicting associations with a whole pantheon (excuse the pun) of different gods is pretty much all I can talk about, though, and it's great that they managed to put that in the game with the little details! Another little thing is that Orphic Dionysos was the son of Zeus and Persephone, so that voiceline with Zeus suggesting to Zagreus that they pretend they're father and son is another great detail. Another little detail that harkens more to the Roman equivalent is Zagreus' identity as the god of blood - one of the four humours of early Roman medicine. The term used for an excess of the blood humour was sanguine - a word we still use today with the same meaning! The Romans thought that if you were sanguine (had an optimistic disposition, like our dear Zag) you had an excess of blood. So, overall, I'd give him a 9/10 for accuracy. I'm marking him down for the fact that Supergiant put the whole Dionysos Zagreus thing on the back-burner for story purposes, which is totally understandable and the right choice. *CHARON* There's nothing in mythology that actually connects Charon with Nyx. Our main source for Nyx and her offspring is, of course, Hesiod's Theogony - and Charon as a mythological figure doesn't seem to have existed in the times of Hesiod and Homer (8th century BCE or thereabouts). Charon's purpose - people-wise - was to provide reassurance. Shades were depicted with wings, and often Charon was ferrying souls across the lake Acheron (as opposed to its river form or the Styx) so shades were completely able to just walk around or fly across to get into Hades. This means he existed as more of a formality. The idea of the Obol was used by poets as a way to jab at Theseus, because he was the one who allegedly caused the custom to start (more likely most poets doing this weren't Athenian and hated Athens and trying to shove their idiotic symbolic king in EVERYTHING) and Charon was often depicted as just some old man demanding for coin. One of the only surviving myths we have for Charon is one in which he defies Hades and receives retribution for his defiance. He probably would have been able to talk. Interestingly enough, there's a Sumerian deity that ferries dead souls to the afterlife and it's completely plausible that the Greek deity was modeled off of this Sumerian one, explaining why Charon doesn't show up in epics like the Theogony or the underworld is barely described at all and without Charon in the works of Homer. Overall, Charon gets an 4/10 - he's got the whole guy-who-hoards-money-and-might-ferry-you-across-a-river-if-you-ask-nicely thing down, but his physical appearance strays somewhat from mythological canon and he's not a son of Nyx, nor is he as threatening as the Charon we all know and tolerate in Hades. *CHAOS* It's only really later depictions of Chaos in which they're described as a primordial originator, mainly because more modern poets wanted to add a bit of flair to their theogonies. More reliable and commonly used sources depict Chaos as the primordial goddess of the lower airs, and mother to the other airs - Darkness (Erebos) , Night (Nyx) , and their children Light (Aither) and Day (Hemera). Chaos was also depicted as female - most of the gods came from Mother Earth, Gaea, and those that didn't were born of Chaos, Mother Air, if you will. Both Chaos and Gaea, as well as primordial Eros (not to be confused with the son of Aphrodite of the same name and godhead), Tartaros (literally meaning "the pit"), and Chronos Aion (not to be confused with the son of Gaea of the same name and godhead) emerged fully-formed at the dawn of creation according to most sources. Ancient cosmology is exhausting. With the earlier depictions of Chaos in mind, it makes a bit more sense why they would be slightly mischievous and whimsical, but I definitely agree that it does feel slightly off. Same thing with Zagreus, I understand why they chose to go with the primordial originator Chaos instead of the lower-airs-mother-of-mother-of-mother-of-all-bad-things Chaos, the delayed benefits thing works really well and I'm not sure how they would have put it in otherwise. It does bug me though that time and time again people favour the edgy primordial Chaos over the slightly more true to mythology lower airs one. 8/10 *THANATOS* I won't bore you for much longer - I just wanted to briefly mention Than as in Greek mythology he's pretty much always depicted as an old man, like Charon, for the same reasons as Charon. In Roman mythology, however, the opposite is true and he's depicted as a young man, like the Than we all know and love. I love love love the butterfly motif he's got going though - butterflies symbolised the soul and mortality in Greek and Roman mythology so that's a great detail! 9/10 - they went with Roman Thanatos which is a completely understandable choice and the one I'd have gone with too, but I am nothing if not a pedant. EDIT: I forgot about the wings. how did I forget about the wings. 8.5/10 for lack of wings?? Anyway, that's it! I love any opportunity to ramble about Cthonic/Underworld/Orphism stuff so I love this game !!!! And I loved your video !!!!!