THE 4K FAULT - There's some good news and some bad news... but mainly good!
For quite a while now I have been mentioning what I call 'The 4K Fault'. This is because I found five 4K discs in my collection in a short space of time which would no longer play all the way through. The sound would skip, the image then started to break up and in most cases the disc would eventually seize altogether meaning a reboot of the player was required. I had to wait a while to investigate more thoroughly but I have now done that and having re-watched around 35 to 40 more 4K discs I had in my collection only one more with the 4K fault has turned up. In this video you will get all the details.
Mentioned in this video in Cinema Retro Magazine. Three issues are published annually and at the time of typing this the magazine is about to have it's 20th birthday. Quite an achievement in the modern world but not surprising when you see the quality achieved in every single issue. To subscribe go to this page and scroll down until you see the payment buttons: cinemaretro.com/index.php?/ar...
I also mention Jeff at Films At Home who has recently changed the name of his KZhead channel featuring all things home movie and his channel can be reached here: / @jeffrauseo
I don’t think having to continually buy movies twice is an acceptable solution to faulty discs. I hope this issue gets resolved by labels as I myself can’t afford to keep double and triple dipping just to get a copy that should successfully do what it was supposed to do in the first place. Would people so casually dismiss brand new book purchases that had missing pages?
Home video discs have always given a few problems. 4K looked for a while like it was going to be a major failure rate but thankfully it's far lower than feared. Buy with confidence and if you do come across a faulty disc in the future hold off buying a replacement until you can grab one for a tenner or less. It's not worth worrying about. John.
On Amazon Canada I return them when faulty.
@@moviecollector5920 You’re right,John, but I’ve grown so weary of double dipping, no matter its impetus, that I just want to minimize it as much as possible. I love your channel and hope to see more content.
Just a follow up hearing or reading about an American pressing plant whose quality control was so bad that down the line many discs were going into laser rot prematurly. Mostly the discs affected were Warner DVDs even new discs were faulty upon first play. It would be interesting to know if European or US versions of the same disc showed the same failure rate. Mike
@@robertrobitaille320 I don't know they'd accept them when they're years old over here Robert. John.
Surely the studios should be replacing these discs free of charge seeing as there is a manufacturing error
If people start to send me the correct contact details and addresses then I'll compile them all into one place for everyone. John.
After dealing with laser rot with my previous LD collection and then running into a similar issue with HDDVDs, I tasked myself with learning about and building a media server. Now when I buy a disc, I immediately rip it to my server. One benefit is everything is viewable on any TV in the house and a second is by using a home theater PC and a program called JRiver, I’m able to create movie night playlists where I pick a few trailers, some custom bumpers for my home theater and then add the night’s movie at the end. It’s much more fun on movie nights plus having a hard drive backup gives me peace of mind with my very expensive media collection.
👍🏻😎
That's a good solution Chris. So far I've re-purchased five discs I think so it's not exactly been that costly. I think I've only spent £39.50 replacing the faulty discs. John.
How do you deal with the hdr layer?
@@jon4715 what do you mean by “deal with”? I use makemkv to rip the entire movie file (not the entire disc). I can deselect any audio tracks I don’t want, subtitles, etc. The ripped file plays through JRiver media player on an HTPC in my dedicated cinema room and through Plex/Infuse via Apple TV in all other rooms of the house.
Nice video as usual. As @chriswhite8717 mentioned, I too have a media server that I rip my DVDs and Blu-ray onto and it does a very good job of things. However I am after a Blu-ray copy of "Kelly's heroes" if there is a copy available. That film is a classic and it is well worth watching.
I hadn't watched my copy of Jaws in about a year when it played flawlessly. I put it in the player after watching your video and sure enough...My copy froze up around 31:30. Coincidentally (fortunately) I had just ordered the film vault edition. The idea of rewatching my 4k collection with the purpose of looking for this flaw takes any pleasure out of the movie experience.
That's the stress I also found with the situation when the first five discs with the fault turned up in quick succession Robert. The good news is only Hunter Killer has turned up since - two faulty copies as it goes. Check for residue on your copy of Jaws as it may be something simple. I've re-watched a lot of discs and the problem is nowhere near as common as I feared so this story is more good news than bad news. John.
Thanks for sharing some of your disc collection with us, John. Always a pleasure to see and hear an enthusiastic cinema fan's insights.
Thank you Boss. It's always easier to talk in front of the discs and simply pull them out. John.
I have a Panasonic UB9000, and I have no 4K Discs that skip or stop playing. Something strange is going on here, this is not normal.
Have you re-watched all your discs though? I haven't. Only found Hunter Killer (two copies of it now) with the fault since the first five showed up in quick succession and I've re-watched a lot of discs since then but nowhere near all of them. John.
@@moviecollector5920 Yes, I rewatch all my discs every year, and they all play perfectly. This is a very strange issue that you have.
I had a problem with my Oppo 203 not playing a lot of my 4ks. I sold the Oppo for a Panasonic ub9000, and I haven't had any problems. It plays all my 4ks flawlessly
Out of hundreds of 4K discs I've bought, only one has died that I'm aware of. Usually with any issues I have like the ones you described, I either need to do a firmware update or clean the disc with a microfibre cloth and then it will work perfectly. With a lot of US discs, I've noticed there's some off-gassing creating a weird coating on the inside of the cases. Even though the underside of the disc usually looks clean, they still usually skip or freeze unless they've been given a good clean with a microfibre cloth first. It seems even the slightest imperfection will cause these hypersensitive discs to play up.
I've been through all of that Rocky. None of these things have proved to be the solution for any of these six discs. It does seem to be laser rot. John.
Same here
Finger prints will cause problems at the disc edge and using a microfibre cloth is definitely the way to go. But as John says, that's not always the issue.
This is an important video and should be watched by all 4K UHD collectors. I do believe the problem is 'laser rot' as you have already suggested. I have been sent three new replacement 4K discs in the past month by Warner Bros (UK), Universal Pictures (US) and the UK Fox distributor. (If you're past 30 days, then most retailers will no longer honour a replacement, but you can contest this.) In my case, all three titles showed discolouration near the disc edge, indicating that the aluminium layer was starting to oxidise. Even if I am wrong on this, all three discoloured discs were skipping or showing image blocking. The disc perimeter is usually the place where the reader layer changes. If there's oxidisation at the perimeter, then you have to assume that's the reason discs skip at roughly the halfway point of the runtime. My understanding is that if the disc edge is not properly sealed in manufacturing, then water vapour/air ingress can cause oxidisation. If I might suggest, Movie Collector, please do not let the studios and distributors off the hook by saying that you'll just buy replacements because 'they only cost £10'. The studios and pressing facilities should be aware of precisely what is going wrong here, and have a duty to replace faulty items. The Consumer Rights Act 2015 makes it quite clear that despite 30-day returns or extended warranties, it is incumbent upon manufacturers to produce electronics devices and software which are fully functional for up to six years. If you get no joy with the retailer, then get the studio to replace the disc. Most will do so without question, but may ask for the disc to be shipped back. I prefer that latter option because the studio or distributor can extract the details of the stamper machine and hopefully investigate. If none of the above works, then I suggest you open a small claims court case against the retailer or manufacturer.
Evening Martin. I've been in the home cinema tonight with Trevor from Double Bill Movies and we've really done a job on the new 4K of True Lies and achieved pretty good results with it. I think we may try to do a video about it in the morning and put it up on Trevor's channel. Back to the 4K fault. I'll have a look for the discolouration at the outer perimeter of the disc as I haven't spotted this previously. I'm not too bothered if it's only a handful of discs that have gone down but I was thinking the overall problem would be much worse. The hassle of sending discs back isn't something I relish the thought of but if a load more faulty discs turn up then I will start doing just that. Thank you for confirming my findings. Many others have done so too so I think we can state with some authority that this problem does exist even if it's not as catastrophic as I was fearing some time ago when the first five in my collection turned up in short order. John.
@@moviecollector5920 Thanks for your reply, John. I used to manage laser disc and DVD quality control at a well-known label and we always traced 'laser rot' back to the specific pressing facility and stamping machine. Problems were typically in batches, so the issue could usually be contained. I've met you a couple of times at BFCC, John, so we'll have a chat at the next one, I'm sure!
Kudos to making this video and highlighting all the 4k disc faults. I had my similar share of these 'disc rots', either they froze up or stopped playing. All heartbreaking. This is a list of titles that I bought from the US that died on me: 1. Scarface (2 discs and died twice) 2. The Shining 3. Hobbs and Shaw 4. The Doors 5. Apocalypse Now 6. Raging Bull (Criterion 4k) 7. Shaft (Criterion 4k) 8. Shazam 9. Gladiator I never had so many Blu-rays that died or froze on me. I have three players in total that tested the above titles (Sony x700, Panasonic UB420, Panasonic UB820). It appears that there might be a QC issue over at the US plants or the ones manufactured in Mexico. I never had any UK discs that died on me (yet!).
Thank you for posting this. Quite a few reports of one or two disc failures that correspond to what I call 'the 4K fault' but nothing quite as extensive as the list you've put up. I have getting on for 300 discs and I've only found six faulty discs so far so it isn't as bad as I first feared. Keep your eyes open for cheap replacements which is what I've done - £39.50 only so far for five replacements which is pretty darned good. John.
Thanks for this video. I thought it was just my discs doing this. My copies of Dunkirk, The Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Rises have all frozen at the same point on repeat playing. I've had to replace them. I have the same Panasonic Bluray player as you.
There are quite a few fellow collectors confirming we all have similar issues. High humidity causing disc rot to set in has been suggested and this has a ring of truth for me as we used to live in the wettest part of England i.e. Cornwall. John.
My copy of Jaws also stopped working and I had buy another. I had around 20 more discs fail on me but these were all Warner bros titles. I gave away my HD-DVD years ago because of Warner Bros discs all stopping working. It’s very frustrating. Glad someone done a video about it.
I think it's down to manufacturing flaws Byron whereby the silver layer starts to break down after heat from the laser. Fortunately the problem isn't anywhere near as bad as I feared when I found those first five discs in quick succession. Only one more has turned up in recent re-watched of so many 4K discs. John.
Hi John, thanks for bringing attention to this issue with 4k discs. This explains the problem I had when I watched The Magnificent Seven 4K from a pre-owned disc. It froze up at around 50 minutes but after skipping a few minutes it worked fine. Thankfully that was the only time I've experienced the fault.
I can skip through the fault on a couple of mine but others won't allow it other than a skip to the next chapter whereupon I then have to try to go back to the ending of the affected area. It's all a bit of a palava at times but at least these discs don't cost hundreds of pounds and they're cheap to replace. The general consensus is that these faults tend to occur at layer changes or thereabouts which does make sense. It also looks to be caused by high humidity so don't ever live in Cornwall like we used to because it only stops raining five days a year down there!!! John.
Great review and in particular highlighting the 4K freezing issues. Jeff at films at home mentioned this problem a while back and had something to do with the processing straight after COVID. I'm still surprised there are still a few copies of 4Ks out on the shelf but hopefully the retailers will honour a refund or exchange. Ah, the Cross of Iron, what an amazing film although I was taken back by the opening credits of the film's music of children singing in German. Only my children who attend a German Kindergarten learned this song and was taken back when I heard them sing this out loud and immediately thought of this James Coburn classic😂.
I still haven't watched Cross of Iron so I'll keep my ears open for the children singing to the opening titles. Many fellow collectors have reported the 4K fault with their discs and a good cause of high humidity has just come in which rings true for me. The heat from the laser and then sitting on the shelf during consistent rain for many months might just have tipped the six discs I've cited over the edge if they had manufacturing flaws to the reflective layer. John.
Great video, as always, John! The only defective 4K I've dealt with thus far has been Elf. But I returned it and the new copy worked great. I always look forward to your videos! I'm excited to hear what you think of Dune Part Two when you get to it.
How many 4K discs have you watched for a second time though? That's when the problem turned up for me as I was taking a fresh look at some regularly to ensure my reviews were consistent. John.
@moviecollector5920 upon a rough count, 10, I've rewatched 10 all the way thru. There are many many discs I've gone thru again to make my 4K reviews, but not an entire rewatch. Still just the one disc for me. I'll keep you posted if I encounter more
I remember when Blu-ray first hit the market. Whilst we all appreciated the higher (for the time) resolution, it was both temperamental, slow and required updates. Perhaps this would have been acceptable if it's predecessor was VHS, but, DVD was both reliable and of reasonable fidelity. It's a great shame some of these problems still persist.
The stupid name of 'Blu-ray' didn't help either Andrew. 'HD DVD' was self-explanatory and everyone would have known what it was and the inevitable benefit but the Blu-ray label helped to kill the home video disc market. It seems to have recovered a little owing to the more widely adopted '4K' label now but the damage that was done is never likely to be fully undone. Hopefully the title of this video won't make people think there is a generic problem with the format and therefore 4K is not worth purchasing. I hope it's more of a good news story because it was looking for a while to me like the format was a disaster. Thankfully it's nothing of the sort. John.
@@moviecollector5920 That's good news. There needs to be a studio-recognised file format which allows viewers to legally store movies however they wish, negating potential issues with disks. Pigs may also fly, who knows?
So how long before you have to replace the replacements. Seriously, if that was me then I’d have given up buying discs altogether! Luckily, I have never had a faulty disc and I own around 1,500 discs, mostly BDs but around 700 4K discs. I use a Panasonic UB820 player but did have loads of disc freezing issues when I had a Sony X800 4K player but the discs would always play fine the second time and have ben flawless on the Panasonic. The so-called “disc rot” was especially prevalent in the DVD era, something to do with the paint seeping into the disc surface causing a sticky residue, but I always assumed that quality control had massively improved with BDs and then 4K discs. I mean they are almost impossible to scratch so they must be more resilient than DVDs, right?
@@DoctorHades Like I said... Allow people to download files, not order disks. They can then store them however they wish. Disk, hard drive, memory stick, punch card, paper tape, etc... 😉
@@DoctorHades Read through a load of the comments on here and you'll find plenty of people reporting similar problems. It's to be expected with any disc format but with us all sharing information we might get to the bottom of it for sure. So far it looks like high humidity is the biggest cause of laser/disc rot. Don't live in a wet climate seems to be the best advice... and never pause a 4K disc! John.
Actually I do not think it is an issue simply based on the 4K disc side but has to do with the player, too, even if you cross checked with another Panasonic player. I believe the reason for these issues is technically related to a combination of two or three factors such as the laser, the error correction and the thin layers. All of my 4K UHD (mostly German releases, some international UK / US - and nearly all titles you have shown here) do run without any issue, since I opened more space for better cooling around my Panasonic DP-UB9004 so it's not getting so hot anymore. In case I place the player on top of my AVR I will encounter similar issues on every second UHD cause the device is running too hot. The only UHD I have persisting issues with is "Hunter Killer" indeed. It displays increasingly weird pixeling and sound artefacts around the scene when the russian captain is introduced to the bridge crew by J. Butler what might be around 45-50 min. into the film (as far as I remember) and then finally stops, while the blu ray is fine. I gave the 4K disc to my audio/video dealer who tried it on his OPPO player and it worked fine on it without any issues. Unfortunately OPPO players aren't built anymore. So the disc can't neither be damaged nor be the only problem. My cheaper Sony UHD player on which I cross checked the 4K showed the same issue particularly at the same time stamp and on the Panasonic the issue persists exactly at the same timne stamp, too. So, seeing the OPPO did not care about a maybe existing flaw of the 4K UHD layers I'd say it's mostly a question of error correction inside the players. 😣 Btw. I never ever had any similar issue with a blu ray, only with 4K UHD. My cent. Cheers PS: maybe you can check your "faulty" discs with another high end player of different brand in future and do a review of a better brand/player on your channel. Truly appreciated. Thank you.😊 😇
Good comment there Steffen. I had considered the heat to the player issue so moved it away from all other equipment some time ago. My other player has nothing else around it and never has had but the same faults in exactly the same places are displayed. It seems that the whole run of Hunter Killer discs has a poor silver reflective layer as both my discs have the fault in just about the same place as your copy. Fortunately mine are just far enough apart that I can play one and stop it when the problem first appears, chuck the second in and it will continue from that point and go to the end having started beyond the point where that second disc has a fault. What a palava! John.
Panasonic ub9000, 820 and 420 turn off the automatic feature. Will solve heat problem. Player will take few seconds more to turn on. But good idea to give player space to breathe.
@@robertrobitaille320 I'll have a look for anything still set to 'Automatic' Robert. Thank you for the tip. John.
@@moviecollector5920 only speaking for panasonic models I mention. Its under system panel tab, than you have a quick start option, turn it off. No this trick is mention. Only on a forum. It work rihht away. Now my player are cold. Before they were hot even when not in use. Of ub9000 is much bigger model it les of a problem . I just turn it off now. Have this model since 1 year about. Cheers.
@@moviecollector5920 Interesting. Thanks John. As I said, it has to be a combination of more than one factors as that "old" high end Oppo player plays that same disc without an issue.🙄 I'd still be interested in a different player...
I had a factory-sealed 4K of Willy Wonka with severe freezing and juddering problems about 50 mins in. When I ejected the disc and checked the playing side, I noticed some sort of oil on the disc. Wiping it off resulted in a modest improvement, and I was able to fast forward a few minutes and finish the film. So I would recommend checking even sealed copies of discs to see what you are putting in your player.
I've noticed that is highly prevalent on discs manufactured in mexico, I wonder if specific factories use more of that oily shmoo than others lol
I've only ever come across a residue build-up on a DVD before but a few people have reported this oil like film on some discs. It's not the problem with any of the six 4K discs I've cited here but high humidity has been suggested as a cause and that sounds about right to me. John.
Hello, John. Interesting video, yes. Actually I reported some problems with 4K editions of Interstellar and The Road Warrior, really strange. Having played both on a friend's Panasonic player, the same issues in the same minutes of reproduction. Waiting for the replacement discs. Thank you and warm greetings.
You are the first to report the same 'fault' Juanjo. I do think it's caused by flaws in the silver layer so down to manufacturing errors that are exacerbated by the heat from the laser which then causes the rot to set in. Invisible but deadly! John.
Some of the extra problems associated with 4K discs are specifically technical. 4K discs have many times more "pits" than Blu-ray and especially DVD. Let's say a DVD has 100 pits, a Blu-ray has 800 pits and a 4K has 5000 pits. For that reason, the fault tolerance 4K is quite small. Let me explain. For example, a micro scratch/smudge on a DVD will affect 2 of the 100 pits. However, that same damage on a Blu-ray will affect 16 pits and on the 4K it will affect 100 pits. Therefore, 4K is far more susceptible to minor damage/scuffs. I hope this helps. Joe O'Donnell
True, but the susceptibility to scratches was well known to CD/DVD, so a hard coating was made a feature on Blu-ray. I've yet to find a scratch on even some of my oldest Blu-ray discs.
That certainly does help Joe. Thank you. It seems that the silver layer has to be more perfectly manufactured than any previous format for the disc to survive long term if it's going to get through any significant error rate. John.
@@joshzwies3601Same with me. The only issues that I've ever had are whether or not it's a manufacturing error in the first place or the coating has been distorted in some way. I've had distorted coatings before when I ordered from the US throughout the Summer period. It must have been heat etc that affected it. I have also bought second hand blu rays from CEX before and the coating didn't look right at all! My player couldn't read the disc and after several attempts at cleaning, the disc was ruined and beyond repair. Only happened a handful of times over the past 8 years or so though!
Yeah, the density of pits is much higher, and you're correct that it is less fault tolerant as a result. I've had DVDs and Blu Rays which have arrived with visible scratches on them in the post, and they still played perfectly well. With 4K, most visibly long scratches have caused players to stutter and halt -- so when they arrive with any, I tend to return those discs straight away.
A triple layer 4k bluray has a maximum capacity of 100GB , double a standard double layer bluray. 3 layers of 33GB ad opposed to 2 layers of 25 GB. Issues that arise are more the extra layer than the extra capacity of the layers themselves.
I’ve got most of those you mention, but no issues yet - thank goodness! Any films that haven’t had a 4K release that you’re hoping will? I’m hoping for the original Mary Poppins… ☂️
The trouble is with this flaw in some discs is that you only find out when you re-watch a year or more down the line. I can't think of any films I'd wish to have as a 4K. It's something I'm quite often asked but perhaps because I have most of my favourites on film 4K discs are not as important as they otherwise would be. John.
I've had this happen to several discs and like you I've replaced most. A few are the same as yours too. Based on when I lost some I've linked it to a period with lots of rain and the resulting consistent high humidity as my house is not climate controlled and I live in Jamaica. On some of them I could actually see the rot. This will also explain why I have lost so many DVDs over the years. What I decided to do is remove all my discs from the cases, place them in sleeves and put them in a container with packets of desiccant to remove any moisture from the air inside. I am able to monitor the humidity and temperature from outside with a battery powered monitor I can see from outside through the container. Sounds extreme, but so far so good.
Marc, I had an email notification from KZhead with your comment and I've mentioned humidity to a lot of other commenters since because we lived in Cornwall until a couple of years ago and that is the wettest area on earth so your suggestion certainly holds water! Sorry about the awful pun. Enough reports have come in from other collectors to now confirm there is a problem. Perhaps many more will start using 'the 4K fault' label because it does seem to sum it up. John.
I'd love to see a video detailing more of what you've described here. For examples, details like whether any damage is visible under very bright light or whether the discs appear perfect. Sometimes scratches on 4K discs are very difficult to see until you've got them under the brightest of lighting conditions. If the discs appear perfect, whether you've tried cleaning them with damp microfiber clothes (to remove any potentional leftover residue leftover from the factory) before giving up on them. I've got well over a hundred 4K discs in my collection, but I've only played each disc once as I rip each to a plex server and play the full digital versions from there. If you could post a list with all the titles you've had issues with, I'd be able to compare notes by trying to play some of my discs a second time as all they've done is sit on a shelf since their first rip. What I have seen before is discs being scratched straight out of the factory, being scratched because of becoming loose during shipping and rattling around in their cases, and lastly being coated by a lubricant out of the factory that should have been washed off that I've had to manually remove. (Edit: Fixed some grammar)
I've had them all under bright lights and all six look perfect. No residue is evident when cleaning. I've been through everything and mentioned the problem several times in previous videos to generate suggestions and input and nothing so far seems to have fitted as a solution but I'll keep an open mind. It does seem to be laser/disc rot and possibly caused by the fact that I sometimes write notes for review videos and therefore have pressed pause. The best advice for everyone therefore seems to be obvious. John.
I'm glad to learn skipping or freezing discs are not a problem only I experience. I rent BDs and UHDs from time to time and have found out my Sony UHD BD player is extremely sensitive to scratches, fingerprints or other dirt. So the first thing I do when I receive discs via mail I drop them into my ultrasonic cleaner with fresh water and a drop of detergent, then gently rub off the solution after eight minutes with a paper cloth. If I'm tool lazy to do that it's very likely the picture freezes after a while. So far all discs played fine after thorough cleaning.
One day I'll get one of those disc polishers to see if that can solve the problem but the evidence so far does suggest laser/disc rot on the six discs I've cited in this video. What a bummer! Still, it was looking much worse initially so it's been a bit of a relief to find only one more faulty disc after that initial five all turned up in quick succession. John.
I've been collection blu-rays for less than 3 years and don't have that many 4k titles, maybe 3 dozen, and only 4k that has frozen/skipped is Criterion's Midnight Cowboy 4k, brand new. Image would freeze for about 5 seconds, then suddenly on its own skip ahead with a few minutes skipped over. I cleaned the disc carefully with micro fiber, no luck, it would freeze repeatedly exact same spot in film (where Dustin Hoffman tumbles down stairs at disco party). Amazon replaced it and replacement plays perfectly. I have several of the other 4k discs you had trouble with in this video, but all of mine played perfectly. FWIW I use a budget friendly Sony UBP x700m player and have been quite satisfied with it. I'm thinking some of these 4k discs are printed/manufactured in different facilities with different quality controls maybe. Thanks John!
Another report has come in for Hunter Killer with the fault in the same area as the two discs I have. It is possible it's a batch production issue but I think it's more simply poor silver layers and the laser heat sets in disc/laser rot that it left to fester on the shelf. I'm open to alternative theories and solutions though of course. Plane had a problem from new so that one went back. The others have all been years down the line when the problems made themselves known. John.
Glad you got replacement discs and didn't have to pay much John. Mine seem to be ok for now. I notice you have the 101 release of Snowtown on your shelf. That's a great release but very difficult to watch. I doubt you'll be doing a review of that on your channel 😬😂
Snowtown is a powerful but disturbing film. It's not one I'll ever forget but it's also not one I'd recommend to anyone. A great example of independent film making. John.
I've seen this on Gandhi 4K. Contacted the retailer and got a replacement. No issue on the second copy. I have a Panasonic player. I have heard from another channel that non-Panasonic had had problems with 4K discs.
I think all players tend to vary from different manufacturers Axel but this issue I've reported is consistent on both my Panasonic players on all the discs cited. It's possible a different make might manage to error correct one or two of them but if I'm correct in my assertion of laser rot then the problem is only going to get worse so eventually nothing will play any of them successfully. John.
Had this issue with nearly all of my new 4K discs. Then I googled the problem, and one message board recommended giving new disc a gentle wipe/clean with a soft cloth should help. Have done this on several occasions and though I’m not saying that this is a definitive solution, for me it does help.
That hasn't been the case with any of my discs Lee. Glad it sorted your problem out though. John.
Great video! I'm glad someone is finally bringing this issue out in the open. For this reason, I make sure I have a blu ray version of the movies I buy in 4K. It's upsetting that 4K discs are so fragile, especially since they are more expensive. Unfortunately your solution is not a viable one for most people, because you have to purchase another copy & you have no guarantee the same issue will not pop up again at a later date. I hope the studios figure out which manufacturers are responsible, but I'm not holding my breath as they are trying to push the industry towards the digital age where we don't own our movies:(
It seems that high humidity caused our problems so if you live in a wet area of the world then possibly the solution is to run a dehumidifier in the room you keep your discs. We moved a few years ago and the problems appear to be behind us now. John.
Thanks John! I've been relatively lucky: no failures yet on my few 4Ks. The only significant failure I've had in my collection has been my 21-disc Laurel and Hardy DVD set from years ago. Almost all of those discs are unplayable now (luckily I backed them up to digital files ten years ago.) I'll buy the re-released set at some point. I often find wiping discs before playing with one of those optician's soft cloths you get with spectacles helps. Too many discs get chemical reactions with the plastic cases, I find. Even worse are digipacks where the fumes from the glue creates a sheen on the discs over time. That hot summer of 2018, several boxsets had opaque discs that I had to wash - when all else has failed, I've dunked discs in hot, soapy water and wiped them with a soft dishcloth. That's actually got several discs working again. My attitude is that if they've already failed, it can't hurt as an absolute last resort! The only bad thing was that I once didn't spot that a pan scourer had got mixed up with the dishcloth. Scratch one disc... so to speak! 😄 Dominic Husband
Apparently labs are spraying the playing side of discs to stop them sticking together when they're in stacks Dominic and that's the residue you've come across that has to be cleaned off. I haven't come across any of those yet but I still have another couple of hundred discs that I need to replay before I know how many or if any others have gone down. None of the discs I've cited in this video could be rescued by any amount of cleaning. The most likely suggestion to the cause of the problem is high humidity and as we lived in Cornwall, the wettest area on earth, that rings true. We moved more than two years ago so hopefully our problems are behind us. John.
@@moviecollector5920 Ha ha! Yes, I live right on the Devon/Cornwall border - the view out of our back windows look over Cornwall. It is is indeed wet most of the time! Discs going wonky is a major concern. When Entertainment in Video ended some of their distribution deals a few years ago, so many films went out of print. If anything happens to my Dark City Blu-ray. I'm stuffed! I'm beginning to think I should import a region A Blu-ray player. That way my 4K player would cover me for 4k, Region B and Region 2 and the US player would sort me for Region A and Region 1! :D It's terrible that this situation has happened on such new discs. I accept that after 40 years, some CDs might suffer a bit and even some early DVDs and Blu-rays. But there's a serious problem if it's a new format. The only one of mine you had there was Tenet. I'll have to check it as it's been a few months. I'm sure cleaning wouldn't have sorted things on the 4Ks. I've been reading and watching videos about 4K failures for some time. Cleaning's been a lifesaver on Blu-rays, CDs and DVDs, though. :)
@@moviecollector5920 Hiya! Yeah, I'm in Plymouth and overlook Cornwall from my house. It certainly is wet most of the time!! 😆 Just had a look at my 4Ks. All are fine except for Tenet. It still plays, but there's a definite discolouration developing at the edges of the 4K disc. Damn! 🙁 I picked up Tenet very cheaply some time ago (£5 on Amazon), so I can cope with picking it up again, assuming the problems are now sorted.
Very interesting you should mention Dante's Peak on LD John. I have the exact same issue with the NTSC disc, in fact it's the first disc I ever had an issue with. I've had that disc in the collection for over 25 years now, impressive 5.1 demo material back in the day.
And it's a great film too. We tend to watch that and then Twister a few days later... or possibly vice versa. Both are NTSC LaserDiscs and it seems to suit the computer effects work which still holds up a realistic look owing to the lower quality. I can't imagine what they'd both look like on 4K home video disc these days but imagine a 35mm maser print on a home screen of those two and that's probably how they would look. John.
When I buy 4k disc, I usually tool through by running fast forward. If it doesn't stop that way, it's usually fine. Quick question. I don't know where you buy disc but don't they le you return and give you a replacement if it is the disc problem? Just curious cuse 4k, quite a few have problems like this not like bluray disc. Thanks by the way for introducing may good items.
I returned PLANE but that was a new purchase. Disc/laser rot takes a while to make itself known so then we can only return to the manufacturer which is a bit of a faff. I can't be bothered with that over a cheap home video disc. John.
Yes, happened with some of my 4K discs. Lord of the Rings Extended Edition TTT comes to mind. And recently M:I - Dead Reckoning and the new Aliens Special Edition. These are long films and the working theory is that the switch from the second to third layer on 100 GB discs trips up the player. The stuttering or complete lock-up is then mostly later in the movie, which ruins the fun quite a bit. The recommendation is to always clean your discs with a microfiber cloth (not in a circular manner, though! From the inside to the outside, please). Even brand new ones have some sort of residue from manufacturing on them. And on Sony players turn off 4K upscaling.
I second (agree with) your comment about turning 4K upscaling off, on Sony players. I noticed this setting would make some of my low quality old DVDs look worse with upscaling turned on.
I think the Apollo 11 disc is a single layer but I may be wrong. There's not very much on it though. They all played fine originally and then a year or more later the problems have begun. 2001 in particular, is getting worse and worse which points to laser/disc rot. John.
I had frequent problems with lots of discs on my Sony player until I turned off the 4k upscaling and also adjusted a couple of other settings after finding a video here on You Tube about that player.
@@DavidDunneUK It is possible there's something in the Panny players David but I haven't come across it yet. Please let me know if you come across anything. John.
Return of the King was freezing in two chapters.
I usually have issues with Paramount titles here in the States, they always seem to freeze up in the middle of the film and I have to shut off the player and restart the disc and it works. A friend of mine told me to clean the discs first because the disc will sometimes have an oily film on it from the case. Thanks for the video.
Your problem sounds like a memory issue. I have a friend over here with a Sony player giving a similar issue. The fault I've detailed is thankfully much rarer than I thought at first. John.
Hi John, I have find the slightest scratch or mark can disrupt these disks, even in the best of players, I would recommend giving the disks a good clean before playing ,even when they are brand new. Also there is a chance your laser has caused damage if you like to pause the disks a lot for any period of time.
None have any marks or scratches at all. The laser heat does appear to be the way the flaws in the silver layer are revealed as indicated by my experience with Hunter Killer when I did have it on pause during the second viewing. It then immediately staggered until a complete lock up. John.
I have found a cleaning has helped even with no visible marks.
we clean our discs before every viewing, and blow compressed air into the player too, discs that previously froze at the same place every time magically stopped, almost never have the issue anymore
@@tompoynton I haven't tried compressed air. Still funny that two players display identical results on each of the six discs cited though. John.
@@moviecollector5920 I agree that is odd
Ah laser rot! So many memories of having my Sony MDP laserdisc player!
We're going through a whole lot of LaserDiscs lately and so far we haven't turned up any more with the dreaded laser rot. Most are about 30 years old though so perhaps the problem was mainly seen on earlier discs. John.
Thanks John . It is a problem once in awhile for disc rot
Enough reports have come in to seem to confirm it Craig. Humidity seems to be the best suggested cause because we lived in Cornwall which is the wettest area on earth. John.
I've found the discs do freeze and skip if even slightly scratched, but given the commonality of what you're reporting, it sounds like an issue with your player. *p.s. Jeff Rauseo is also a great source of info. Appreciate the efforts of you both.
It the player sometime not. Have different player to test, different brands dvd player.
Two players displaying the exact issues on the same discs though Jim does seem to confirm it's not the player. John.
I did see the 70 mil print of dune two. I loved the way it looked, and I loved seeing the film grain. You did hear a little bit of the flicker from the projector during the quieter moments not to big an issue for me and my mom who was with me, said it was like watching Star Wars back in the theater in the 70s.
That's the way cinema should be Jesse. It was all part of the magic of the movies so we're lucky that there are still a few cinemas that can still give us that magic. The IMAX GT 15/70 projector is huge and because of the incredible work it's doing for us is louder than anything else. I still want to get to the BFI IMAX to see this 4K blow-up for myself but a lot has been getting in the way and still is. John.
What player are you using? Many discs that had playback issues on my Xbox Series X now play perfectly on my Panasonic UB820. Giving the disc a gentle wipe with a microfibre cloth also helped with playback on the inferior XSX player
A pair of different Panasonics. Sony seems to be the worst offender for error correction but every make and model seems to have different capabilities in that regard. It looks to be laser/disc rot so it's only going to get worse until in the end no end of error correction capability will play them. John.
I had the same issue with Jaws in the same scene. At the time I was using the Sony X800M2. When I had freezing with 1917, Batman and a few more, I got the Panasonic UB820, no freezing problems unless the 4K disc has an oily reside on it. I always double check the desk for this residue. Once the disc us clean, no problems.
No residue on any of these discs Paul. Sony's don't seem to have such capable error correction abilities as Panasonic players but I dare say some that will no longer play on a Panny would play on a Sony. Disc rot seems to be the cause with my six faulty discs. John.
Hey john, sorry to hear you’ve had that kind of trouble. I just did a quick count. I have 328 4K disc I had no idea I had that many I would’ve guessed 200 so I think that’s a fair sample and I’ve had No such trouble of that kind. It’s my opinion not fact, but I think, without a doubt the 4K format is definitely more sensitive than Blu-ray. If there’s the slightest mark ,smudge, finger print on the disk it will miss track, freeze or whatever you want to call it. i’m sure that’s the first thing you check so I can only assume it’s a defect in the manufacture I can’t imagine disc rot so soon. i’ve collected CDs from the beginning, and only one or two actually had this rod many years after you could actually look at it through a light and see tiny pin holes, which caused the CD to miss track. I’ve only had one 4K player, so I can’t say much, but over the years I’ve had multiple Blu-ray players, and again without a doubt some played better than others. For instance, I had a Denon player, and there was five or six movies that simply would not play upgraded to a pioneer elite , and it played every single one of those movies so there is that. I do happen to have the UK version of the shining that I just recently got and of course I have my US copy that I’ve had for years which I know, plays flawlessly so I’ll watch the UK version tonight and if there’s any issue, I’ll let you know in the next video.
Afternoon John. Well, it's afternoon here. I do suspect that pausing some discs to write notes for a review video may be the cause of some of the discs failing, particularly HUNTER KILLER as that happened immediately we resumed viewing. That does indicate laser rot to me but I'll keep an open mind as none of us can be certain. It would take a lab to do research on the faulty discs to stand a chance of getting to the bottom of this conundrum. I've had the discs up to bright lights and can't pick out any obvious problems. I've cleaned them, tried them in two players (identical faults entirely on all of the six discs cited) and even used them as frizbees to see if that teaches any of them a lesson but nothing's worked. Good luck with your UK disc of The Shining. A few others have recently re-watched theirs on this channel and report that all is still good. I hope my second copy is still fine and hasn't rotted in its case owing to the glue on the cellophane wrapping! John.
@@moviecollector5920 hey john, I guess we’ll never know exactly what’s going on. I have paused movies, and when I went to resume, I’ve had the whole player freeze and malfunction powering down the player and turn it back on, fix the issue and rewinding and playing over the spot that I paused it at it played through just fine so I’m assuming the disc is fine and just the player got confused and/or froze like computers do sometimes. but I could see were pausing it for extended periods of time could possibly damage the desk itself, but again, you would think and hope that the player itself would never damage a disk, so never really thinking much about it before my player throws up a screen saver on the screen after only a few minutes of pausing, but I never really thought about the laser on the disc . I certainly won’t be pausing the disc for any extended period of time. I’ll just simply stop it, I think that’s just good practice from now on at least that’s what I’m going to do. so thanks for bringing it up this topic as it should be discussed. Hopefully I’ll come across a video where somebody will ask a manufacturer about this Have a great afternoon. See you in the next one.
@@johnmbell4642 It's possibly when a disc is paused at a layer change on the outer perimeter of the disc John and probably only then if there's a manufacturing flaw in the silver layer of the disc to start with. Or it might all be nothing to do with it but perhaps something we all need to beware of until more evidence comes in. John.
Fingers crossed, none of my 4k's are faulty although 1917 did freeze on me a few times but after wiping the disc clean, it has worked perfectly!!
Latest possible suggestion for a cause is high humidity. Even a dehumidifier running in our media room at our last address doesn't appear to have been able to keep the air dry enough if that turns out to be true but it certainly has a ring of truth to it. Damp setting disc rot in. Quite possible I think. John.
Very informative video John! I had similar issues a while back but was only happening sporadically. Most discs were fine but the odd one would freeze or sometimes not play at all. After a little research it turned out the issue was my Samsung player which needed a software upgrade. However because Samsung no longer manufacture players they had no interest in helping me. I ended up buying a new one but went for Sony instead and I must say their customer service is leagues ahead of Samsung who I won't be doing business with again. Thanks for doing the video. Top class as usual. Regards Alan
Thank you Alan. I hope this all came across in a positive manner because initially it looked like I had a disaster on my hands with five faulty discs turning up in quick succession but when I started looking further I only found one more - Hunter Killer. What a relief. Samsung never did have a particularly good reputation with their 4K players. The reports about Sony players indicate they don't have such good error correction capabilities as Panasonic players but if you don't have any discs with this possible 4K fault then they should cope with everything fine anyway. It looks like my collection has suffered due to living in Cornwall until we moved over two years ago because it's the wettest place on earth! John.
@@moviecollector5920 oh it was very positive John. Like yourself I love collecting 4k discs with a passion. My credit card isn't perhaps quite as keen 😅 but such is life!
Whenever I have had issues with 4k discs skipping (particularly layer changes on 3 layer discs) it's been dust or grime on the laser lens. Definitely worth stripping the player(s) down to clean before you go replacing any discs. Recently I imported Trainspotting in 4k from US and had issues at 38 mins(the first layer change. Cleaning the lens on my sony x800m2 did the trick nicely. Possibly a tolerance issue that certain discs have issues if you have a less than standard cleanliness level on your player. Laser rot would both surprise and horrify me. Hope you are well John, keep up the good work sir.
Two players with identical faults on each of the six discs does seem to point to a disc problem Floyd. It's still possible it's caused by tiny, invisible scratches somehow applied by the player but this seems unlikely. There has been a plausible explanation from another collector who lives in a particularly humid part of the world and that is high humidity. As we lived in Cornwall until a few years ago that suggestion holds water! John.
@moviecollector5920 Thanks for the reply John, perhaps I'm suffering from a case of denial..... whatever is going on its not filling me with confidence.
@@floydianpink2524 I would always expect an occasional disc failure with any digital video format Floyd but it appears I've had more than anyone would fear because of the wet environment. If you're in a dryish area then you probably have nothing at all to worry about. And even if a disc or two do show up sometime they've been cheap for me to replace so they probably will be for you too. So far I've spent £39.50 replacing five 4K titles. Peanuts considering what real films cost. John.
@moviecollector5920 I live in Aberdeen about a mile from the North Sea so now I'm even more worried!!! I have nearly 400 4k discs so it's definitely causing some anxiety. Thankfully my only issue thus far wa is the Trainspotting disc which I managed to rectify. It's very strange that the issues people are having seems to be with layer changes on 100GB discs.....
@@floydianpink2524 We now live in a fairly new build so there's little chance of damp getting in. If you're in a house with a bit of condensation or humidity perhaps have a dehumidifier running during the night in the room with your disc collection. It may not be humidity that's the cause but I don't suppose we're going to find out quickly, if ever, so it's probably a good precaution. Cornwall is a seriously wet area so if high humidity is the cause then we were ripe for the picking! John.
That's funny the scene you mentioned in Jaws that faults is exactly where my brother and I snuck into the theater and watched that movie. Our parents wouldn't let us watch it so we went to see another movie then snuck into Jaws. The head coming through the hole in the boat is exactly my first memory of the movie. BTW, I was only 12. Made an impression for sure.
I was only 11 years old when I first saw it. Jaws is probably a big reason why I've enjoyed cinema so much... until the big downgrade in 2011 I suppose but I'm still able to enjoy occasional real films in cinemas so it ain't over yet. John.
Great video John , interesting how you never get any trouble with a standard Blu Ray and i have got nowhere as many 4ks as you but i have, i had to bin 4 myself Tenet locked up half way through strange you had to buy it so many times i think 4ks are very fragile its a shame really .
I've only got one knackered copy of TENET Paul. It looks like I had to purchase more than one replacement but the fact of it is that I couldn't leave that copy in the charity shop for only £3.50 so that's the one I'll use from now on. The First Edition pack from HMV was only a tenner so I nabbed one of those while they were virtually giving them away. It hasn't been in a player yet and might never go in one. If 4K discs are more fragile it's surely got to be down to the data being so tiny. I can put up with the odd failure because they're so cheap to replace bur for a while it looked like the majority of them were failing after sitting on the shelf for a couple of years. High humidity has been suggested as a cause and that makes sense because before we moved we lived in Cornwall which as we all know is the wettest place on earth! John.
I bought my only disc from overseas on Amazon a few months ago. It was a 4K version of The 5th Element from StudioCanal. Every time I tried to play it, it froze at the same spot - where Bruce's mom called while he was on the ship waiting for the opera. it took about 3 weeks to get it to the US, shipped from Australia and I ended up returning it...very disappointed. Reviews said it was a much better version than the US version because the bitrate was higher. I still haven't replaced my Blu-ray copy. I've found that the 4ks really need to be cleaned thoroughly, otherwise they can also run into problems
Many have reported that 4K discs require cleaning sometimes before they will play properly Gary but I have never come across that particular problem. I have had one disc that had a fault from new but there was no residue on it or anything obvious so it must have just been a flaw during production which does happen occasionally. With regard to The Fifth Element, when I did a review of that disc I had many comments tell me the US version was the superior release. Bit rates and all that sort of thing aren't as important as many tend to think but it does mean you can put a KZhead video up, slag something off and get loads of views. Slagging off videos always seem to generate a bigger following. This particular video is supposed to be more of a good news story because the 4K fault is not as big a problem as it first appeared to be. In fact, it's a tiny problem so I think you should give the US 4K release of The Fifth Element a try and see what you think. John.
I always perform a full backup whenever I get a disc, used or new. Makemkv checks hashes and will fail if there are any problems with the surface - around 0.5-1% fail and require a return/refund in my experience. All discs I've purchased which have passed the initial backup test have so far remained perfect (Blu-ray and UHD aren't very old) but when they do inevitably fail then the backup will suffice. I suppose some people might not want to deal with computers, but entropy comes for everything so there isn't any other option if you actually want to keep your media. The ONLY way to prevent eventual data loss is to make bit-perfect copies and transfer them over time to new storage formats.
How do you play Dolby vision? My TV does HDR10+ playing the mkv files. I extract only the movie to save some harddisk space and I can play the movie directly without going trough the warnings and menu. With 32 TB of movies. I've got 2 fails the recent one from arrow Seed of Chucky.
@@pieter6361 Various players and tvs can do it. I've seen DV working with android TVs and external boxes like Nvidia shield and apple tv. Software for example would include options like Plex and Jellyfin.
@@pieter6361 Looks like my other comment got deleted but you can play back with apple tv etc using jellyfin
Many others have reported similar issues to what I call 'the 4K fault' now and it does appear to be a real thing but a minor problem at worst. I've worked in IT for too long so I don't want to have to bother with RAID 5 arrays and backup systems any longer. Work out the cost of doing all that properly and you'll be into the thousands of pounds so it seems that the best solution is to just replace the occasional disc that fails. Don't live in high humidity areas and never use pause is probably the best advice. John.
Had no issues with 4K since I ditched my Sony 800 and changed it to a Panasonic UBP820. Sonys players are well.known for freezes. It's not the discs It's to do with the player not handling a BD100 triple layer disc. The 3rd layer is the issue. BD66's are fine. Panasonic eliminated most of their 4K freezes with last yrs firmware update
My two Panasonic's give exactly the same results on all six discs cited in this video Russell so it is the discs. It's possible another make and model of player will successfully error correct some or all of them but if it's rot caused by previously living in the wettest area of earth (i.e. Cornwall) then the rot isn't likely to get better and eventually I expect nothing will ever play them at all. Then again, the laser rot on that Dante's Peak disc never seemed to continue rotting throughout but I'll have to check that again now that I've thought about it. John.
Yeah, I really miss the rock solid quality of the DVD and early Blu-Ray era (Warner Bros. notorious quality issues aside). The discs came with a scratch-resistant coating that unfortunately isn't as well implemented on 4K Blu-rays. 4K discs are so notoriously touchy. The slightest spec of dust is enough to cause playback issues - I always check the disc pretty thoroughly because of that. And I'm fortunate that every single issue I've had was fixed by a thorough cleaning. I guess I'm lucky that I haven't run into any of the issues you're reporting though - although, a lot of my 300+ 4K discs are untouched - guess I need to remedy that.
I've just had notification of a comment come in that suggests and seems to confirm that high humidity causes disc rot to set in. That has struck a chord as our last address was in Cornwall which is the wettest place in the world! John.
I had that problem with Nicole Kidman movie Nine, on Blu-ray, I Got a replacement, at Christmas time 2023, as I was trying to re watch it, it went blocky at the beginning, so I got the replacement, and that horror was also on that disc too, so I had to bin them both. Going to wait a future 4k version now. So your not alone with this problem. Could be to do with when a company decides to spray an antibacterial agent in the case of some movies and storage time it transfers to the back of some discs, in warm temperatures. And can cause disc rot, and it shows as white cloudy formations on the disc and in the box.
That's all good information Nigel. High humidity has also been cited as a cause which rings true as we lived in Cornwall which is the wettest area on planet earth! John.
I’ve had Two discs with issues one Of them was a scratch on my 4K of Captain America the first avenger and the only other one I’ve had a problem with and the only other one I didn’t see a scratch was my 4K of Belle From shout factory, I did just buying a whole other copy which was not cheap, but it plays just fine. I am wondering if the Issue is regarding certain manufacturing plants because I know in the days of laser disc some pressing plants discs had more rot issues than others so I’m wondering if it could be the adhesive issue for the layers used in making these discs?
It's possible it's tiny, invisible scratching on the outer edge of the affected discs but I can't see why some discs would get the problem and others wouldn't which is why I currently favour a flaw in the silver layer. If it's rot then it's not going to get any better but different players might be able to successfully error correct until the rot spreads too far. High humidity has been the most likely suggestion for my problem so far and because we lived in the wettest area on earth (Cornwall) that does seem to hold water! Several people have suggested the fault could be down to a single lab. I'll have to put a microscope on the inner perimeters to see if the six discs cited give me any clues in that regard. John.
I have had a few instances of a 4K disc stopping. I always assumed it was linked to memory or play time and generally, switching it off and back on again (in time honoured fashion) and then going to the scene just before the point it stopped fixed it for me. Next time this happens I will make a note of the point it stopped and what fixed it.
That does seem to be a memory issue with your player Daniel. I have a friend with a Sony player (I think) and he has the same issue quite regularly. John.
The only disc I’ve had issues with is the Fright Night Steelbook import from the USA. At the time I imported my copy the fault was a known issue but I just had to have a copy. Just fast forward as I got to the error and pressed play once passed and it played the remainder no issue. This time around with UHD the QC does seem to be lacking quite a bit. Hopefully they’re figure it out and issues will become a very rare problem for some people. I’ve also heard quite a few of the players have issues with higher bitrate which exhibit similar issues.
Perhaps the important tenet with the six discs I have the fault on is that they all played fine the first time around. Nothing seems to be evident on the disc faces but maybe if I ever get a disc polisher thing then I'll find miracles do happen. John.
I’ve had issues in the past with Blu-rays too. The Toby Maguire Spider Man 1 & 2 stopped playing after a few years. They can’t even be recognised by any player I own (5 players in the house) It is a shame these issues pop up and I think you’re correct with your assumption it’s the amount of data squeezed into the disks.
@@MartinPearman High humidity has been suggested as a cause and that does seem to ring true given we used to live in the wettest place on earth - Cornwall. John.
Hi John! Im giggling abit lol! I just had this when I did my Criterion The others with the kids and blip blip it cut out . I had only opened it new and the same with my 2001 ASO which I just replaced a few days ago for 15cdn. I see it today on amazon for 12 lol. It is very frustrating when this happens especially when youve gone to the trouble to accumulate good company to join you during a screening hahah Really appreciate this video hope all is great across the pond. Will be looking at my new copy of Avatar 4k I just found today. Fingers crossed no skips haha Cheers John D in BC!
Gawd, there are quite a few reports of faulty discs coming in Dave but I think that's to be expected with a video of this nature. We all need to keep in mind that the good news is it's not many discs, possibly not even 1 in 100. That might be worse than any disc format that's gone before but given how tiny the data on these discs must be perhaps we should expect it because they are still cheap CD type discs. What a shame the original indestructible CD disc didn't come to fruition and was replaced by these cheapo discs which seem so prone to failure. But they are cheap and that's the point I'm making because I've managed to replace five of my faulty 4K discs for a total of just £39.50. I hope you can sort out your copy of The Others and 2001. Sometimes there's a thin film of residue on new discs which I've seen form on a DVD after the first screening. I hope you enjoy Avatar. I have the 3D Blu-ray and if it had have been a 90 minute movie I think I'd have really liked it but I think it's too long at an hour longer than that. The sequel is even longer so unsurprisingly I haven't seen that one. John.
Great video John. I had a problem with midnight run 4K which I returned for a refund. Also had an issue with dead pool 2 but after wiping the disc it cleared it. When I first watched my copy of jaws it wouldn’t load the disc saying copyright etc. after a few attempts it started working. Strange. Oh watched Aliens today. Major improvement on the Blu-ray in my opinion.
The six discs I've cited all played fine the first time they were watched David so that's the conundrum that has baffled me for possibly two years. High humidity appears to be the cause of the disc rot if that's what it is. No longer a problem as we moved a couple of years ago. Trevor from Double Bill Movies came over with True Lies 4K yesterday. First impression was awful but we managed to make it look pretty darned good by the end of all our experimentation. Video coming soon but the main one will be on Trevor's channel as it's his disc. We both blather on about it for about 20 minutes so hopefully people will enjoy it. John.
Yea high humidity is a good shout. I'm looking forward to that video john.
I've found the slightest mark of dust can jam a disc. I've just had that with Jaws. Cleaned the disc reloaded the disc and played the chapter fine. Now had problems with the deluxe Star Trek The Motion Picture 4K original and TV cuts. Would always jam and break up. Rectified by a settings change on the player. Now absolutely no problems.
Interesting. It's as though the player is trying to do more processing than it has power for. I don't think I have any 'enhancements' on within either of my players. But these discs did play fine when first purchased so that's a factor to keep in mind. John.
Hey John, I have three 4K players two Sonys and a Panasonic. About 10 discs act up on the Sonys, stutter or freeze, but will play through when restarted. A few bad ones I returned and the replacements played fine. I have one disc E.T. that doesn’t like the Panny, but plays fine on the Sonys. I don’t have any that I know of that played fine, then acted up at a later time. I have about 1000 Blu-ray’s and never had an issue with a single one. At my age they’ll probably last longer than I will.
I think these variations are the different ways players handle error correction Gary. The fact that my faulty discs all played fine the first time through points to laser rot and a good suggestion of humidity levels has just been cited as the cause of disc rot from a fellow collector in Jamaica who has had a lot of similar problems. Makes sense to me. John.
@@moviecollector5920 Being in Oklahoma, high humidity, you would think I would have experienced this, but maybe your discs on your side of the pond , are slightly different? I remember when vhs tapes began to deteriorate, it’s always something. I have the Abyss showing up this week.
I have a Sony UBP-X700 and a Panasonic UB420 4K BD player. I always give the disc a rinse with warm water and then gently pat it dry sandwiched in a lint free towel. I then try the disc in the other player before giving up on it. So far none have failed completely.
There are reports of the differences between Sony and Panasonic coming in and that appears to be down to the error handling withing the different makes. What doesn't work on one may still work on the other. The fact that all six of the faulty discs I've come across all played perfectly the first time through suggests a malaise has set in after that first play and that's why I've suggested laser rot. It does make sense, particularly now that humidity levels have also been cited as a factor. John.
Could it have to do with the heat generated by the player. I notice mine gets pretty hot, and I don't like to pause my movies because of that. I've had trouble with The Thing during the transition from the autopsy scene to the next and the opening titles on The Shining. It even caused my bluray of Mad Max Beyond Thunder dome to have trouble early in the movie. When I remove discs from the tray, they are hotter than when I removed them from any other type of player I've had in the past.
I did move the player away from all other equipment just in case there was too much heat build up. The second player didn't have any equipment around it. Both give identical results but heat from the laser does seem to have exacerbated flawed areas of the silver layers within each of the cited discs. Fortunately I didn't come across any more other than Hunter Killer when doing back through 35 to 40 of them so the problem isn't anywhere near as common as I feared at first. John.
I think ive been lucky John , I have most of those 4ks with no issues apart from the Shining...which froze on Jacks all work and no play scene. On my Sony X500.. however on my Panasonic ub820 it played fine 🤷♂️
Judging by most reports on here Andy, Panasonic players are more competent with error correction than Sony players. Not always but most of the time it seems. If the fault is rot though then it isn't going to get any better so if deterioration continues then eventually the faulty discs will pack up altogether. John.
I have the same problems on my Sony player. Have you tried unplugging the player, and then plugging it in again? Killing the power always fixes it for me and then the movies play to the end as they should.
It's an identical issue on two different players. There have been many suggestions as to the cause but the only one currently holding credibility is a flaw in the silver layer exacerbated by the laser which explains why they're good the first time through but after sitting on the shelf for a while the rot has set in. John.
Hi John, looks like you've got a lot of comments on this one so don't know if you'll see this but 4K discs are unfortunately more vulnerable to playback issues by design. Without going into too much detail it has to do with the data being closer to the surfaces of the disc than on regular blu-ray discs. They can come with sticky marks, fingerprints or a kind of vapour or film on the disc from the factory, that off gassing effect can also be caused naturally by heat. Also because the quality control of products nowadays has gone downhill there's going to naturally be more defective discs. Cleaning discs can sometimes solve these issues. I use a soft microfiber lens cleaning cloth, slowly breathe on the disc as a coating, then Wipe from middle to edge of the disc in a straight line all around to clean all areas of the disc, then use the other side to wipe it off. Remove the disc and use a damp rag to clean any residue from the inside of the cases, then wash the cloth with warm & soapy water. Hope this helps.
I had figured that the data would be tiny compared to previous disc formats so would be more likely to cause issues. There's nothing on the six discs cited but it is possible there is invisible scratching around the outer perimeter caused by the player although that seems unlikely as it hasn't adversely affected every 4K disc in my collection. Laser/disc rot therefore seems the most likely cause and it's been confirmed that high humidity is a cause of this. We lived in the wettest area on earth until a couple of years ago so that does make sense. By the way, I always try to answer or respond to every comment as I appreciate them all. Thank you for taking the time to give me your thoughts about this problem which has turned out to be a much smaller problem than it first appeared it was going to be. John.
Hello John, A very interesting look at failed DVD's. In my professional life, for 20 years running a studio Screening room, I would always advise not to run DVD's for clients to view, as I had have similar issues to what you have had over the years. These would not be feature films, but for promotions. It would be embarrasing for a DVD to stop mid-play and then loose the promotion. Once I pointed this out, we used a different format. For me DVD's are fine for home only. Blu-rays were even worse to try and play, as the menu's were not easy to pause, and to be kept paused until the screening was due to go on (Internal screenings). Again we would normally not show Blu-rays and use another format. Once DCP's got established, every early promotion came on DCP which made more sense, and was so much better. Loved your Vlog. Always very interesting. All the best. Spoolbox.
Sorry for the delay in replying Fred. I've been a little tied up working on a video for Trevor at Double Bill Movies as he brought the 4K of True Lies over so we went through all of that quite thoroughly. An interesting disc that we managed to get to look rather good in the end. Back to the subject in hand though, I always get a little concerned when I run a disc for anyone in here. I'm actually more relaxed screening a film which probably tells me something... like I'm nuts perhaps! To be serious, these discs are home videos and we've been taking them too seriously. If I took home video more seriously I'd have a massive RAID 5 array and an even bigger automated backup system to try to guarantee longevity. What a major investment that would be so I'd rather just purchase a few home video discs and not worry about it all. I should have been at the PPT AGM the other day but when I finally looked at how to get there it seemed almost impossible other than driving and getting around the country in a car now is also almost impossible so I didn't make it. I want to see that VistaVision projector in the metal. John.
I had a similar panic-inducing experience recently. It started with a glitch in The Godfather (just before Michael goes to the hospital). It had played fine once before, but now it consistently broke up/skipped at the same point. Cleaned it, didn't help. Figured it just went bad and set aside (actually bought a new copy to take its place). Then I was watching Reservoir Dogs. Same scenario. "That's two disks gone bad," I thought. Worrisome, but not yet panic-worthy. Then "It Happened One Night" did it. Crap. And so did "Jaws" (same nighttime scene as your experience) and "The Final Countdown." Okay, this was now endemic. I thought how I was storing the disks (I keep them in binders) might be at fault. Was I killing them? I noticed, though, that all the problems seemed to be around where I'd assume a layer change is (about 45 minutes in). My player is a VERY early Samsung model that I bought just as UHD came.out. Maybe it was tired. I replaced it with a new Panasonic. All the problems? Gone. The Godfather and Reservoir Dogs disks I'd set aside play fine. No skipping in Jaws or the others. Perhaps some element in the Samsung's optical pickup circuitry had degraded and it had trouble reading around the layer change without too many errors for the error correction to handle. I dunno. But for me the solution wasn't replacing the disks. It was replacing the player.
I have two different Panasonic players and both display the same identical faults to the frame. Different players have different error correction capabilities so it's possible another make or model will get through a faulty part of a disc but for how long if it's a rotting issue? I think I prefer a disc problem to a player problem as we may find we'll all be replacing our players every year just so all the discs continue to play. High humidity looks to have been the cause of my problems which are now behind us because we moved out of the rain forest of Cornwall a couple of years ago! John.
Just a thought could this be a problem with your player laser being over driven. What happens if you play a new disc a few times over…
They all seem to be fine for a while but once they've been on the shelf for maybe a year the rot seems to have set in if the manufacturing flaw is there. John.
I have lost a couple of HD blurays over time but not yet a 4k but I have only been collecting since Jan 2022. Two were however faulty on delivery, both US imports. The last only a week ago. It would freeze etc in two places one 40 mins in and the other at 2.45ish both over a few minutes so probably not a layer change. Visually perfect but neither fibre nor wet cleaning got rid of the problem but what it did do is shift the problem to a slightly different place and changed the visual effect. I eventually resorted to quite vigorous wet scrubbing with warm soapy water. All it did was shift the problem by a few seconds. Both my players showed exactly the same shifting fault. I concluded that I was moving some invisible residue around. A replacement is on its way from WowHD right now. I have about 350 4ks so small percentage but it is a worrying feature for collectors.
I started re-watching many of ours as I was getting so concerned but fortunately I've only found one (Hunter Killer) more since those original five turned up in quick succession. John.
I have a couple discs with faults. Mortal Engines and Back to The Future 2 both have some issues with skipping or locking up. I thought it may have been the player, but seeing all this it really does make me concerned for the longevity of the format. I don't think I've ever had a problem with any of my regular Blu-ray's. It makes me not want to pick up 4K discs as much as I would have.
Sometimes it will be incompatibilities with the disc and player Jordan but I do suspect laser/disc rot to be the main issue. Slight marks on the discs are more critical on 4K too. If you do find any discs that have definitely gone down though hang around to get cheap replacements like I have. Only £39.50 in total for five replacements so far. John.
I've Just seen a video suggesting a couple of setting changes on the player that could maybe make a difference. He suggested turning off the 4k upscaling completely and changing the cinema conversion mode to video. I've set mine to his recommendations and will see if it helps at all.
That sounds a little unlikely to me but I'm open to suggestions so I'll have to give it a try. Thank you for letting me know. John.
@@moviecollector5920 The logic of it was that 4k upscaling can overwhelm it or something. Probably depends also on the individual case. I've set it on my player anyway and will see if it has any effect. So far, I was able to watch a disc that usually skips on a certain point, but that could also Just be happenstance.
@@1000000man1 It seems like a rather odd bug but stranger things have happened so I'll try it. Thank you for the update with one of your slightly problematic discs. John.
Always a good video movie collector!
Thank you Scott. John.
You have a great collection. I like that you haven't just been the typical collector, and bought everything that releases. I just find that ridiculous. I buy movies that I like and have watched in the past, or others that have been highly recommended or reviewed. I like to think of it this way; that your collection is a reflection on yourself. Whether it's nostalgia etc.
I do purchase quite a few discs just out of curiosity too though but they're generally fairly cheap (to say the least). I planned to keep this channel to a high standard from the first video I ever created for it so that people would be able to watch just about any video and expect it to be a serious look at whatever the subject was or is. A few of my purchases during this time have been to review the discs so I have quite a few that I'll probably never watch again and one or two that I never watched all the way through as I know the films off by heart and could write the scripts out verbatim... Alien for example. Just watched enough of that to say how closely it represented a 35mm print. John.
Hi John, This is a fascinating article on 4k. Ive not taken the 4k plunge yet. But like do many i still keep an eye on news stories etc. I know 4k has had its stumbles with mastering, encoding & distribution. So laser rot might be in the mix. As these discs are pushing the current limits of whats possible on optical media. Reading some other comments regarding fingerprints and dust on these tiny pits. Do new 4k discs still come out the box with the factory slip resin? Its a gentle lubricant which is sprayed over optical discs at pressing stages. I ask as if the grease is covering the pits your laser is working harder. Washing it off with your fingers gently under a trickle of warm water and a tear drop of Washing up liquid and allowed to dry or wipe with a glasses cloth is a trick i used on Cd's to blu ray. It probably wont help 4k discs that lock n stop at mixed intervals, but... it might be worth the experiment for the titles which stagger then fail. It might help.
I've not seen any film or fluid on a 4K disc ever so perhaps it's something that's done only in certain labs around the world and I haven't come across one yet. To leave a residue on though would be a manufacturing flaw so hopefully any lab making that mistake will have sorted out their processes by now. That's not been the problem with any of the six disc I've cited in this video though. High humidity appears to have been the cause and that rings true because until we moved we lived in an area where it rarely stopped raining. John.
@@moviecollector5920 Hi John The residue isn't a full "liquid" as such. It's a soft aerosol lubricant grease that's applied. If you have a brand new disc freshly unwrapped you may not have noticed, as no doubt like many your fingers never touch or go near the data face on the underneath as you handle physical media with respect. But... on a new/just opened title if you gently run your fingers along you notice the texture or sensation of something greasy or slightly slippery to the surface compared to an old DVD or CD where naturally it was either never applied or, worn off over time. But all pressing plants now use it as it helps disc cakes from sticking together. The full "audiophiles" treatment on a new disc would be to clean the underneath with lukewarm tap water and washing up liquid, then (this where I only perform the following on special title as a just in case) after dried, gently wipe with an anti static cloth on the top of the disc and the plastic jewel case and on a Dvd or Cd run through an ultrasonic cleaner, and once every 3 - 6 months, I'll wipe the DVD, Laserdisc and Blu Ray tray with the antistatic cloth. It might make a small difference. It certainly worth having a try on the gentle wash as the others mainly make a difference when the player is using an on board DAC and not as Digital Transport. Mind you.. just after you video KZhead pushed a short video from a smaller channel, where his Panasonic UB820 has started having issues you mentioned and he went and bought a new player replacing his first (only three years old) 820 and that fixed his issue in the video, which is really sad if that's the now lifetime of a high end player. £500 every 36 months is a lot. Especially when I have Laserdisc players and DVD players pushing almost 30 years old soon. Hope some if it might help. Regards
@@jefffan171 It is possible something is aging in the players but for both of mine to display exactly the same fault on each of the discs I've cited in this video - identical staggering and everything else in exactly the same places seems a little unlikely. I did consider getting another player to start with but another £500 outlay for something that would return a few years down the line would be a waste of money. As it currently stands I have purchased second copies of the affected discs for £39.50. I do expect to find a few more but some of them I won't be bothered about so I'm hopeful that now we're living in a drier climate we won't get a repeat of what went on with our collection prior to the move. If there has been a residue on any 4K discs I've purchased then the laser must have dealt with it okay. By the time I had to clean each of the six discs with the 4K fault there was certainly nothing on the playing surfaces at all. All were a few years old by then of course because they all played perfectly the first time around so I had no need to look at them at first. John.
I have not had any issues with 4k locking up after i switched out my sony player to panasonic, what player do you have?
Two different Panasonics. They do seem to have better error correction capabilities than Sony's but I expect they'd all give variable results. John.
Rosemary’s Baby. My favourite horror film ever, in two minds about getting the 4K since I own the Criterion edition on BD and it’s a great package overall
It also had a Super 8 feature release by Marketing Film International in about 1978/79 but I never saw that one. In fact, I've never seen it since a television broadcast in about 1980 when I was surely too young to fully appreciate all the nuances of the plot. Hopefully this time it will have a bigger effect on me. John.
I will have to test my discs , i have all the ones you mention here John, i will not be happy if they are faulty already its not as if they are years and years old, i have vhs tapes from 40 years ago that still play with no issues
I'm more likely to find a problem Aidey as I have dipped in and out of all of those discs apart from Hunter Killer which looks to have been killed but having it on pause for a few minutes. But relax if you do come across a faulty disc because they are cheap to replace now if you're prepared to wait like I did and get them for a maximum cost of a tenner. John.
@@moviecollector5920 I just tested out one of my favourites in that list Tenet and of course Jaws and both played without an issue. I use the Panasonic UB9000 for my playback John
My third copy of Ex Machina in 4k didn’t halt at the waterfall scene. I wonder whether the 4k fault can be traced to any particular factory or studio? I must admit I was surprised to find one in my criterion edition of Trainspotting, too
You might be right there, it might be an issue at a particular lab and the way they manufacture the discs. John.
i have this problem on a single disc as far as i know not really rechecked alot of my 4ks and now after watching your video im kinda scared to, the 4k disc is the novamedia edition of terminator 2 it freezes in the middle of when the gang storm the building to retreive the t800 arm and chip, its just stuck i cant fast forward or rewind to fix it i need to skip to the next chapter
That's the issue I have on a couple of these faulty discs too so it's not an isolated case. One or two will skip through eventually but a few minutes is lost as a result. The problem is nowhere near as common as I feared when those first five discs turned up in short order but it could be down to me having to pause to write notes down for reviews. Maybe the best advice currently is to never pause a 4K disc. John.
I’ve experienced this with quite a few of my 4K discs. Fortunately, I have managed to resolve all of them to date. After experimenting I found it takes a lot more inspection, as follows: Using a small torch light in a darkened room I first blow away any visible dust/lint before cleaning in straight lines from the centre ring to outside edge using a fine microfibre cloth for glasses. Sometimes it took 2-3 attempts and also inspecting disc tray of player for signs of dust. I ensure my fingers don’t wrap around the edge of the disc when placing on the tray. Some of my problems discs have been: Ghostbusters Ultimate Collection (every film), Flash Gordon, Leon, Rocketman, The Batman, Full Metal Jacket. All eventually played. It was frustrating though. The errors seemed to occur between halfway to two thirds through films from memory, possibly relating to a layer change.
High humidity has been confirmed as a factor in this so that does appear to explain our six faulty discs. We lived in Cornwall and it doesn't come any wetter than that so a likely answer has been established. Don't move to areas of the world with excessive rainfall and never put a 4K disc into pause mode seems to be the advice as a result of this video. It seems like the problem discs you've had have had some sort of invisible residue or something on them. I've tried cleaning my faulty discs thoroughly but no banana I'm afraid. John.
@@moviecollector5920 Sorry to hear that. Hmm, excessive rainfall, guess it’s not really made for us Brits then!😄 I hope you fair better in the future with your 4K collection. I recall an odd quirk with my DVD of Cruel Intentions. It would always freeze at the same point. Though if I started it fresh at a later chapter and then jumped to first chapter it would play without fault. Probably won’t work with 4K, but worth a mention.
@@physicalmediaodyssey It stops raining for about five days a year in Cornwall.
@@moviecollector5920 That’s some record. All the best with your collection, and thanks for the great videos 👍
Ordered Last Night In Soho on Blu Ray. Just watched it. Excellent movie. I Rip my DVD and Blu Ray's to my NAS, No 4k movies in my collection yet.
What a surprise that great film was Clive. But there are plenty of people out there who don't like it so it's not for everyone. I think many of them were expecting a horror film for whatever reason rather than a psychological thriller. I've had my Triumph TR7 since I was a young lad so you can imagine how thrilled I was to enjoy that on screen ride in a TR4 through the West End of London in 1965, Pure movie magic. John.
I had that problem. Triple layer switch. Upgraded my player to midrange, and haven't had a problem since. Also, people online say my player doesn't play cds. No, it does. You have to pick music instead of video though.
Most of the issues do seem to be the layer changes. Purchase a new copy of the disc though and the new disc plays without the fault. Apparently my issues were due to living in the wettest area on planet earth (Cornwall) so now that we've moved the problems appear to be behind us. John.
I have around 4000 discs (4K and Blu-ray) and out of all these I’ve only had 2 that are unable to play. Maybe I got lucky. Perhaps the storage conditions factor in also? What temperatures are your discs exposed to?
How often do you repeat screenings though? I only came across the first five because of work for this channel. Having to pause to write notes may be a big factor. John.
@@moviecollector5920 yeah not that often. Knowing about the issues I will have to check more often now! Disc rot is scary.
@@arunaaa301 Only six discs found in around 300 so far so it's not a big issue. £39.50 to replace five of them is all it's cost. John.
Shocking to see this happening. I know Laserdisc and HD-DVD had serious rot issues, but had no idea this was happening with brand new 4K UHD discs. I've read that certain movies have weird freezing issues on some players but not others. Crazy. Would you say there are fewer of these issues with regular Blu-Rays?
I do think there are fewer issues with standard Blu-ray discs but I haven't done any scientific research into it so my conclusion is anecdotal. I think the data is so tiny on 4K discs that any flaws in the silver layer (or rot) will tend to have more terminal results. High humidity levels have also been suggested as the main criteria for laser/disc rot setting in and that rings true to me. John.
There are so much data in such a small space that even minimal errors and/or in disc or the player causes problems! As long as there are mechanical parts involved… things will happen!
That's a good summing up. Thank you. High humidity where we used to live is the apparent cause of our issues so it seems our problems are behind us now. John.
Will you be doing the 4k review of Aliens as there so much controversy over it and would like to hear your thoughts to it.
Not for a while I don't think. If I do it will likely be with a friend's 35mm print or maybe just one of my Super 8 prints as comparison. John.
I feel the controversy is more over True Lies, I just got my copy of Aliens today and watched it this evening, it looks pretty spectacular, it's reflective of its original theatrical run Regards to the colour timing which was off on the blu ray, even though the blu rays looked very good, Aliens on 4k is now the best home video experience and if you're equiped with Dolby Vision and Atmos sound, then you're in for a treat. Most reviews of Aliens on 4k are very good, the only reluctance was possibly from those who watched true lies and just assumed Aliens would look the same, happy to report that it doesn't. Ethan
@@ethanberry9846 That's good news Ethan. Thank you for the update. John.
Hi John I am still in the Blu Ray camp ,although buying the odd 4KHD with Blu Ray combos as well. I feel sorry for you as this should not be happening especially the original price one buys these discs at! Ihave a mystery with one of my Blu Rays. The combo "The Day The Earth Stood Still" It contains both the original classic on one disc with the Kennau Reeves (abonomation version) on the other disc. Went to play the original movie a while back, gets to the load screen then hangs. Disc is fingerprint free, no scratches etc. My OPPO will play anything but am mystified.The disc will not go any further and this applies to my other players. Now will have to rebuy it though this movie for some reason is not cheap.
The problem you describe there Mike does seem to be a similar fault so I'd suspect damage to the silver layer following the first time through and the heat from the laser exacerbating a flaw. If the flaw is in the right place then the disc won't play at all. What a bummer. I don't usually have repeat screenings of discs for quite a few years but because of this KZhead channel I have been dipping into some of the top discs to ensure latest reviews and comments on quality are consistent and that's why I came across the problem so early. Fortunately the problem is not as widespread as I first feared. John.
5:01 - I was about to ask, too! Because that is a *lot* of discs to be going faulty. However, what if your first player is somehow affecting/ damaging your discs to the point where the results would be identical on other players?
That's possible but unlikely. You never know though. So many comments have come in confirming this 4K fault now that's impossible to ignore any longer. Best comment so far is a fellow collector who lives in a high humidity country and has had many discs fail. He's taken fairly extreme measures to counter the rotting issue and it appears to be working so the best current advice is to live in dry areas and never use pause while watching a 4K disc. We lived in Cornwall which is the wettest place on earth and that is why this suggestion made a lot of sense. John.
@moviecollector5920 Ahh, now that's a theory. And that's right, say no to pausing films! Watch them uninterrupted in one go, just like at the cinema, especially when it's a spinning Blu-Ray, haha.
@@MartinKusimo It does feel unlikely to me that pausing a disc should cause this issue but the probably coincidence of putting Hunter Killer on pause and then re-commencing a few minutes later for it to immediately falter can't be ignored. It is an incentive to watch a movie without a break though so even this possibility can be turned into a positive. John.
Hi John. I was hoping disk rot was a thing of the past with the CD industry being at the brunt as my dad worked at the plant in Blackburn when they both caused and fixed the problem. As for True Lies, I watched it last night on 4K. It does look very modern but the issues are with skin. Arnie & Tom Arnold’s skin looks very natural but Jamie Lee Curtis’ age of her face varies from 35 to 11 with some very bad and unnecessary smoothing. Did it spoil my enjoyment, not at all as I’ve not seen it since it came out on VHS plus the Atmos track is brilliant. Best wishes, Dave
Morning Dave. Trevor from Double Bill Movies brought his copy of True Lies over with him last night and we fiddled and fiddled and managed to get the image looking so much better. Get the brightness down to film projection sort of levels and the difference is amazing. Not an ideal look for a film many of us know too well but I think the 4K looks better than the Spanish Blu-ray, the DVD and the LaserDisc. Well, it does projected on my screen anyway. Sound seems to be best on the LaserDisc. John.
Do the faults correspond with certain studios? I remember a lot of Warner Bros. DVDs suffered rot and read faults. Also I wonder if the faults exists in discs for different regions. So far no problems for me in the United States.
It seems to be completely random Ryan but what I haven't yet established is if there is one lab that is more prone to flawed disc production. High humidity has been suggested as a cause of this occasional fault and because we lived in the wettest area on earth up until we moved a couple of years ago that does ring true. Remember that you only come across faulty discs once you play them again some years down the line. That's why I've been going through so many of mine. I do expect to find a few more but I'll keep an eye out for cheap replacements which has worked very well up to now; only £39.50 to replace five of the titles out of the six. After how this was looking a year or two ago, it's actually a good news story because the problem is not much of a problem after all. John.
I think it usually has to do with the changing from one layer to another. 100GB films like "JAWS" have 3 layers. Also depends a lot on the players, how "sensitive" they are, especially when playing triple layer discs. My Sony player (UBPX700) also have had issues with "The Shining" (also 100GB), and it always happened in a layer shift. This is very impressive and advanced micro-technology, so it is not so strange that there are some minor issues with playback in some instances. You are lucky with the 4K prices in the UK, I must say. ;)
Afternoon Sem. I too have suspected problems with the lasers reading through the layer changes successfully. But it is odd that the six discs I've cited are all fine the first time around and then they seem to sit on the shelf secretly rotting while awaiting the next spin in a player. John.
@@moviecollector5920 Afternoon, my man ;) Yeah, I agree it is very odd indeed. We'll just have to hope most of them survive the times... You should test those faulty discs on a different brand player, if you get the chance. This feels a bit like DV, where some tapes would not play back on some cameras/players or have severe artifacting popping up, while at the same time play back perfectly on others. For strange unknown reasons.
@@sem_skywalker I had that same issue with MiniDV. A lot of that was probably down to the head reading the tape whereas with these disc players surely it's more to do with error correction. As these faulty discs were fine the first time they were played it does suggest the 'rotting' issue will get worse as time goes on and that seems to be the case with the TENET disc and the 2001 disc which have both got worse as time has gone on. John.
@@moviecollector5920 I will test my "Tenet" and "2001" soon. ;) If it comes down to disc rot, it is quite concerning, the discs being not old at all. We should all download remuxes via torrent and not feel bad about doing so.
There used to be a media called DVD-RAM and it was sort of like a larger version of a mini disc where the DVD disc was inside a plastic case and only once inserted would the little flap at the top move to the side and expose the disc. Felt like that should have been the way forward to at least prevent scratches, but obviously cost is a factor. Maybe USB drives will get cheap enough to manufacture that they switch to those. In the meantime I'm working towards ripping all of my 4K discs to a hard rive bay and preserving them all that way. Wont need to search for the disc anymore either unless the file gets corrupted and needs replacing. Also wanted to add, I have a 35mm scan of Aliens and I think the problem is that those who are making these discs don't fully understand that the detail is in the grain and if you wipe it clean, you get a more artificial look. I also think the color on my scan looks more realistic and lifelike. I've had to try and show examples to a movie buff friend of mine that uses a setting on his TV to smooth out the grain. He still prefers it, but admitted that its sharper WITH the grain.
I expect your RAID is a Network Attached Storage so that should keep you going for a long time. Make sure you still take backups though. I used to be one of a team who ran a SAN (Storage Area Network) for an engineering company and discs would still go down fairly often so despite the failover nature of the system the backup was still the most vital part of the whole IT infrastructure. Any system is only as good as its last backup... and gawd did backups become almost impossible due to the massive size of the storage required by then. Must be just about impossible today. John.
@@moviecollector5920 you're absolutely right. I'm currently looking at what solid state drives are the most reliable, but even then I want a system that ensures reliable ways to backup each film. I hope to have it all sorted out before the end of this year. Also big savings to be had around the holidays on these types of products.
@@innerlightfilms What you may need is a complete mirror system so that the main system updates the other automatically. Even then a tape backup of some sort might still be a good idea but how on earth anyone could store so many tapes as would be required now might be another factor. John.
@@moviecollector5920 thanks, I will look into that. An automatic 2nd copy to replace a corrupted file if that ever happens is probably the best course of action.
I had something similar with Creed 3, it got to a part where Adonis and his trainer are arguing over allowing Dame to train at the gym and the picture started to break up and there were purple and green lines everywhere. I sent it back and got another copy which was perfectly fine.
Apart from PLANE all of mine went faulty after they'd been watched successfully Andy. Sounds like yours was a first time watch with Creed 3 and that's a little different because some discs do arrive faulty. John.
I have had the same problem but I have notised a ring of oil in the plastic boxes. If this oil get on to the surface of the disc it would not play. Have you tried to clean the disc? All my faulty disc play again - sometimes I have to wash them twice. Use the same process as my glasses - 30% or so dish soap and water - then a spray of windowcleaning also about 30% and water. Then I use kind of the most expensive kitchen paper to dry them (no reused paper fiber). After that I do the same process to the plastic cases. Try it
I went through all that Fred. I haven't come across the film issue that we used to get on new DVD's occasionally when after the first viewing the heat from the laser would reveal the residue left on during a flawed manufacturing process. That seems to be what you've come across with a few 4K discs but it's possibly something else altogether. This 'fault' I've been looking into does appear to be the result of flaws in the silver layers of some discs and therefore what we used to call 'laser rot'. John.
The Shining was the first disc I notised this problem with - had to clean the disk every time. I took it out now and saw the case is full of "rings of oil" - cleaned it now and the discs again and they play perfect in UB820 - sometimes also good to reset the Panasonic or leave it without power for a while
The Shining is the worst 46 minutes in and it started to hack - took it out and cleaned it again - this time using my fingers with soap to clean good - passed the spot but then problem some minutes later 😢 Time to clean again and reset the player 😢
@@FredrikiLund It's neither of those things in this case Fredrik. I haven't come across the residue issue on 4K discs yet but had it on a DVD years ago and it's easily sorted. Two players generate identical faults on these six discs so far. John.
My Jaws, John Wick, and The Matrix 4K discs stopped working back in 2022. I think the problem is only with certain Dolby Vision discs. I bought the LOTR 4K trilogy back in December, and the theatrical editions worked fine, but the extended editions won't play properly. The disc starts freezing and then stops playing. The discs are brand new and not a single scratch on them.
Your experience does seem to be remarkably similar to my own Rinal. I've gone looking for other faulty discs that have 'rotted' on the shelves but only that copy of Hunter Killer made itself known. The second copy was faulty in the same area and now on here another comment has confirmed their copy is faulty in the same place. All very interesting. John.
My Spartacus 4K disc from the Kubrick Collection box set ceased functioning on one chapter. Fortunately, the box set included a Blu-ray disc, which allowed me to continue watching.
That's the same fault. I do think laser rot is the catalyst but the initial cause is a manufacturing flaw. John.
@@moviecollector5920 I found it interesting watching this video as I was posting that you mentioned it happening on a couple of Kubrick movies.
I was discussing with a friend the other day that I still have DVD discs from 1997 that still plays perfectly and only had one data rot DVD case in my entire collection but I’m having all sorts of issues with my blu-rays after a couple years and now this with the 4K discs. I didn’t watch the whole video, but from my experience, sometimes this has to do more with the player than the disc itself. The disc will play perfectly on one player and won’t play at all on a second one due to firmware compatibility or even the player’s quality control that keeps getting worse and worse. You can have two exact players and one disc will play on the first but not the second. I know this is a stupid question to ask to a collector, but did you try it on a second player?
That is exactly what I say in the video Marc - two different players give identical results on each of the six discs cited. John.
thankfully i have not had any trouble with my 4ks john please do a review of cross of iron i love the movie love to know what the 4k is like
I'll see what I think of Cross of Iron Mark but if I don't do a dedicated review I'll likely include it in something else. John.
I honestly think 1 out of 4 4K discs I own freeze and stutter. It’s honestly super disheartening when you’re in a movie and suddenly it freezes and you’re forced to mess around for usually 10+ minutes to get it going again. I usually have to turn the player off and on and manually skip ahead to the next chapter (through the actual players chapter select because if you try to skip forward through the freezing point it won’t pass it) and accept missing out on 5-10 minutes where it froze. There’s only one I committed to double dipping and it still had the same problem. I think there’s a lot of factors but I think it’s mostly the players that are the problem. Mine is a Sony, which I found out too late is the worst for it. I don’t think they have the processing power to handle the 80mbps bit rates and the layer changes on the discs. As you said, so much data on such a small disc needs a lot of power and precision to accurately read. And when mine freezes my player sounds like it’s about to blow up attempting to read it.
A lot of people have reported similar problems to you with Sony players since I first started talking about the problems I was having many videos ago. It is frustrating to have to faff about when a disc won't play properly but my six 'faulty' discs all played the first time around and now they won't on either player. High humidity looks to have been the cause so hopefully the issues are behind us now. It seems that you'll have to get a Panasonic player at some point. I think they start at around £100 so perhaps that's the way to go as they all do the same thing providing you can run off just one HDMI port. John.
I have an early Sony player after about year the fault arose. Played discs in second player no problems. Reverting back to orginal player fault remained. After a while got into a routine of cleaning discs with microfibre cloth and isopropyl alcohol before playing. I keep track of my discs history on a spreadsheet among otherthings it list date purchased and when last played. This enables me progressively check my oldest discs by age. My worst discs are usually the longest playing time with triple layers. Giant was the worst but now played ok last time round. Out of around 450 discs have about 3 percent failure rate currently down from 15. The main problem is identifying the origin. Is it the player the disc or a combination. Just my thoughts. Took your advice and got Super 8 enjoyed it not what I expected. You asked about early intresting releases. Should throw it out to the viewers. My guilty pleasures not sure if they fit the criteria are Lone Star Looper and Salt.
I have Looper Mike but don't remember it too well. Interesting movie though owing to the time shifting nature as I recall. I watched 'Giant' on DVD recently and found it to be a bit of a slog to get through. As for the disc issue, two different players here display identical faults on the same discs so it's unlikely to entirely be a player issue. Laser rot/disc rot owing to manufacturing flaws in the silver layers appears to be the explanation. The 2001 disc in particular is getting worse and worse as time goes on so eventually I expect that one won't play at all due to the reflective layer breaking down almost completely. John.
Hi John do you own a copy or previously viewed Scorcese’s THE COLOR OF MONEY starring Cruise and Newman? One of my perennial faves however I’ve never read a positive review for any of the home video transfers. Nevertheless I do recall that cinematically it’s a beautiful film and did see it during its initial theatrical run back in 1987.
I don't have The Color Of Money but I nearly ordered the Blu-ray recently... but didn't. I didnt' see it at the cinema but you remember it looking beautiful and that's good enough for me. John.
I’ve had some like this just get a micro cloth and go around the disc and not across it so quite happy no slipping and No freezing .
That's not the case with these unfortunately Ray. Looks like it is the dreaded laser/disc rot. John.
@@moviecollector5920 but I’ve had the same problem and done this and it works with no problems no skipping no freezing.