TPH E17 | "Match Bullets Suck at Hunting" : A Rant of Sorts
2022 ж. 2 Там.
11 879 Рет қаралды
Today we are discussing on article we recently read, and took issue with. Here we discuss our thought process behind Match Bullets and their role in hunting.
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We’ve discussed how I feel about the match bullets. They’ve done everything I’ve needed them to do.
I hunt with a custom 6.5 PRC. Been running the 147eld-m. Havent had one not exit on game from 60yd-515yds. Know your weapon be proficient on shot placement. Bullets don’t bounce off game animals !!!
I prefer the Federal Terminal Ascent bonded 175 gr. from my .30-06. However, I’m in Mississippi and shoot at whitetails inside 3-400 yds, usually inside 200. Lots of bullets will kill animals. The key is to know your abilities as a shooter and know the abilities/limitations of the cartridge and projectile you’re using. Pretty simple. Also, I’m from the school of 2 holes is better than 1, I like a through and through. Just my 2¢ from my experience. I also like the Swift Scirocco projectiles. I’m not a fan of the jacket/core separation on larger game.
Seriously, one of the best hunting/shooting podcast out there.
Love the content, keep it up. Found this channel recently and have really enjoyed it, good stuff guys.
How about an episode on copper bullets like the Hornady CX and Barnes TTSX/LRX?
Great show thanks and I need more Alex Jones impersonations lol
Thanks for watching! I told him it should be in every episode.
Lol. For the record we really enjoy the 7mm rem mag with berger vlds 168s through 180s. Devastating on elk and deer.
Love the podcasts man, I listen while at work in my air pods and you guys always hit shit right on the head 👌🏼
Thanks for listening!
Soooo...my 300 short drops 44.8 inches at 500 yards with a 185 berger VLD. And I'm shooting a pretty low velocity load for that rifle at 2830fps. The last elk I shot at 660 was crushed and dead before it hit the ground. The wound channel was horrible. The heart was jello. The hide did catch the bullet and I believe I still have it. Funny though a coues buck I shot at 440 with a Match king took a round in the lungs that punched through and was dropped with a follow up that went through the front shoulder and lodged in the opposite hip. Shattered the hip. Ruined the ham and most of the shoulder and stayed intact mostly. All the burgers we put in rib cages, I mean that animal is dead within steps. Idk..whatever
Honestly i think a big problem is most people dont have a range past 200yd near by. For me its an hour to get to anywhere i can shoot past 100.
Long range shooting is beyond my abilities and experience. Longest shot I’ve ever taken at any game animal is probably with a bow. Most deer I’ve killed with guns have been within 50 yards and I’ve shot at a deer with a bow at 70. Just where I live and the type of hunting I’ve done hasn’t allowed me to take long shots and I’ve never practiced shooting any of my guns past 50 yards. I’d like to get into semi long range shooting some day but I’m need a better rifle than my 30-30! I still like listening to what y’all have to say.
Listen guys we love yalls content! I've been chasing my tail for several years about "the perfect whitetail load" I'm seriously considering running my og this year which is a 168gr amax. Should I not be scared to shoulder shoot a monster with one?
There is some merit to being concerned about light, soft bullets at high impact velocities. I've encountered a 2 year old Midwest whitetail buck shot in the scapula by a young lady with a .243 95 gr. SST. Muzzle velocity was near 3,200 fps and the buck was at 90 yards. We tracked down the buck the next day and put it down. The initial shot did a number on the shoulder meat, but didn't make it to any vitals. I know the SST isn't exactly a match bullet, but the construction is similar. Had the buck been at 400 yards and the projectile going 1kfps slower at impact I'm sure we would have watched him fall.
A great podcast every week!
Thanks for watching.
I typically shoot inside 3-400 yds. My projectile of choice is the Federal Terminal Ascent, bonded. I’m from the school of two holes bleeding is better than one. My 2¢, although only speaking about whitetail from my experience. Lots of bullets kill animals. Knowing your limitations as a shooter and a projectile’s limits are the key.
The issue I have with long range hunting is, when you're shooting at game at 800, 1,000 yards and the time of flight is in excess of a second, it doesn't matter how proficient you are, if that animal moves as you've broken the shot, you cannot allow for that variable. External and terminal ballistics are not your primary considerations if you gut shoot the animal and it runs for miles.
ELD Match or BTHP work better on coyotes? Have a 9 twist 22-250 and was looking at the 75 grain.
Like you said the importance thing is know your limits and the limits of your equipment. However while it sounds like the article is making a very general statement I would agree, why use say a nosler custom competition when you could use an accubond. I gladly give up a bit of bc to have a controlled expansion bullet that will work at a larger range of velocities. The game matter through also I’m picking a very different bullet for coyotes then a would for Cape buffalo.
Every time I’ve shot a deer with a Hornady eld-x inside 100 yards the bullet has blown into pieces without ever making it to the offside shoulder. Perfect example of a hunting style bullet acting pretty similar to a lot of “match” bullets.
What cartridge was you using??
I’ve seen a lot of examples like yours and from what I’ve gathered, the eld-x is more suited for a “longer shot” or at least impacting at slower velocities. So pretty much it’s reliable expansion is at a slower speed but on short shots when it impacts at high speeds, the bullet just breaks apart because it is more suited for expansion at slower speeds therefore it’s a bit of a softer bullet
I recently watched ballistic gelatin tests between ELD X and ELD M; I'll have no issue using a ELD M in my 22CM for deer next season, based on the results on the Ultimate Reloader channel. BTW, dude should be shooting F class with his 7mm Rem Mag.... just sayin'.
Most target bullets hollow point and polymer type type have thinner copper jackets than the equivalent hunting bullet, this leads to bullets that open up more violently and work just as good as varmint type bullets in most cases on varmint/predators. My experience anyways.
A lot of people don't like eating heart or liver but our family tradition we always had it with onions in camp. Just saying that match bullets and the damage and fragmentation can really destroy these organs. Yes they will put a game animal down fast placed correctly.
Hunting is hunting. I've changed my mind. If ya got enough , the time to practice and equipment is crucial. Get a 7 prc and a ziess scope. Range finder and some correct dope. Spend a week at the range testing your optic and it's and your limits. Long range can be achieved, but it's a costly game to play correctly. It's above my $$ and skill level personally. I prefer to stay at 350ish yards and in. I hunt with traditional flat base bonded bullets and they loose there punch at long range.
One of the things I find hilarious about articles like the one discussed here is that the author craps on cup and core bullets and yet one of the bullets that continues to find success year after year is the Remington Core-Lokt (and the Hornaday Interlock, Federal Non-Typical, etc). Personally I like to get close when hunting (grew up in a county that's archery only and old habits die hard) and even now most of the places I hunt I'm not taking many shots past 150 yards and I set a hard limit for myself at 250 yards because I know my capabilities to shoot under field conditions is not what it is from the bench, especially in the last couple years because I don't get to spend as much time practicing as I could before.
What do you guys think about the nosler ablr?
I only hunt with match grade projectiles!😂
300 PRC, 212 ELD-X, Lapua Brass, And Retumbo. I've shot Deer, Elk, Antelope, and even a couple prairie dogs. Works great hunting and ringing steel out past 1000 yards.
and thats a hunting round
I think the biggest problem with long range is bullet flight time. And what I mean is that the animal could move in the time that it takes a bullet to get to it. That's what we can't control at all. Whereas shorter shots even 5to600 yards this isn't a issue because the bullet is there before the animal can move much. And it has happened to me while coyote hunting, but it doesn't bother me as bad when it is coyote or hog like it does the majestic animal like deer ,elk etc.
So, are the old chambers not able to use any of the high bc bullets. 7mm rem. Mag. Has been shooting 1000yd matches for decades. Can I use any of the new bullets to improve on the wind deflection?
Most 7mm rem mags are 1:9 and 1:9.5 so you should be able to stabilize the lead core, longer and high bc bullets in that 160s to mid 160s no problem. The 175gr ELDX, for example, is recommended for a 1:8.5 twist so likely wouldn't work for a traditionally twisted barrel.
If y’all like this article. Go watch a few videos of the “The Gunsmith”.
Sounds like the two of you and Mr. Black are good for each other. It would be ok to see Mr. Black on your guys pod cast but it’d be better to watch Randy the Angry Gunsmith, I mean Randy the Real Gunsmith on Hornady’s pod cast. For my self I would use eldM and eldX on game but at slower muzzle velocities. And keep flight time around .75 sec. I’d Aldo go very heavy for cal. A lot can happen from the game being spooked or just taking a step, let alone even a gust of wind . Yes it’s fun to shoot game out far but seems to be more of a pride or arrogance issue or keeping up with Jones type deal more then any else. Kinda like the monkeys in Jungle Book. “I wanna walk look you, I wanna talk you….” I like what Miles from Hornady said recently about guys not really having a 1/2 minute rifle like they think they do and should stop taking 700 yard shots. Not sure why Americans don’t talk about Nathan Foster. I do not believe no one person comes close to his knowledge and experience. (If so, who? I’d love to hear them out) Though Nathan is not wrong, and I believe way more correct than you two. I desire to have more gun then what’s needed rather then less when it comes to big deer and elk. I’d rather hit’m harder then the standard and very much rather then just under the standard. To be condescending toward belted magnums is just a typical American arrogance. But just so you both know, I paint my 7mag and 300 win mag belt black. Yeah, that’s right. I get another 550 or so more feet per second and another 1500 ft fb’s of energy just by doing that. It’s called the Chuck Norris Improved! But really I believe if your going to target practice on game at distance: 1- Get the best training 2- Have a 3 man team that trains together regularly 3- one guy spotting in the best bino’s possible. The second guy actively videoing on the best camera possible. I like how Rogee has two guys shoot at the same game. 4- Have known and readable wind. 5- Have top equipment: range finder, wind meter, etc 6- Be able to actual read wind! 7- Make the time to set up properly 8- Practice Practice Practice A fat azz from Go hunt posted a vid where he wounded a bull elk and claimed he missed. Then said it must be ok cause it was later seen breeding. Just like a fat guy to say such a thing. I do believe guys are wounding and losing more game then others by not being properly prepared. Not sure how anyone can argue with that. All this said, what I’m going to say next is off topic and may seem not to fit the heart of what I wrote above. But we really all need to be born again, having our names written in the Lambs book of life. To get saved by the grace of God needs to be top priority! The lake of fire 🔥 is an eternal torment and don’t seem like a real bid deal until you end up there…. Repent! Jesus is King
Looking for a new upper for my AR-15 lower with more power and distance, should I go with 6.5 Grendel or 6mm ARC?
The Grendel has a lot more bullet availability and is proven at this point as a hunting cartridge. I would run with that if It was my decision.
Just found your channel and so far i am a fan. i realize this is an old video so this may go unread which is fine, But my main concern with the long range hunting trend is as ive seen mentioned by you guys you average shooter is not a 1 moa shooter, and they arent shooting several hundred or thousand rounds a year. you also made the comment that even experienced shooters would have difficulty accurately judging the wind across say a canyon at 1k or more. so now you have shooters that are not sub moa shooters and not experienced wind callers that got some fancy new rifle and scope and have taken it out to the range and hit a gong at 1k and think oh i hit the gong i can shoot animals at this distance which is faulty thinking. it is as you say if you are going to hunt you should know your bullets performance at different ranges and your personal capabilities in shooting and in my opinion should always try to get as close as possible to increase chances of a good shot. but the amount of wounded animals lost by inexperienced people i have seen over the last say 10 years has gone up substantially and even know people that have seen an animal ranged it and said oh thats only 850 and turn around and walk away until they are over 1000 just to say they killed an animal at that range which is where i disagree. Even experienced marksman can misjudge wind and have trouble in inclement weather so the closer you can get to minimize the human error factor the better in my opinion, but many people are not like this. as far as bullets go shoot a bunch and test them out and choose the one that fist you and your goal best doesnt matter if its labeled "Match" or not, ive seen both fail in different scenarios and ive seen both perform well well in different scenarios.
108 eld m works just fine for ARC
I am the most ethical hunter of all. I get deer and mule deer by putting salt on the tail. Some people don't think it is necessary to have a quick death on a varmint or predator shot. But I agree with Wade. Dispatch the animal quickly and humanely, i.e., do the conservation and caretaking and don't be a dick about it. Cue the laugh track, I have hunted often with a .308. Also, most shots are 70 to 225 yards. Also, the .308s are 2700 fps. Now, my latest favorite is the 7 PRC, the ELD-X at 3k. However, I know I could hunt with an ELD-M, especially at longer ranges. Use the right tool for the job. Also, I agree with a point made here. The market is not making anyone buy anything. People want something, the market responds. With the exception of .224 Valkerie. I know zero people who have that caliber but I will see it on the shelves, at times. Also, I happen to have by accident a box of .308 Marlin Express. And now zero people who shoot that round.
smk the best big game bullet l have found, j live in some best elk and mule deer country
My favorite projectile is a rock. It is the 1st form of not real hunting!
Man you guys get it about match bullets! I exclusively use the ELD-M in all my hunting applications for all distances with my cals in 338 LM, 300WM, 30/06, 308 Win, 243Win. High Shoulder shot, massive expansion, all energy dump inside the animal's CNS and forward locomotion (hydraulic, and hydrostatic shock, as well as fragmentation). Sometimes their is an exit hole. I've never had an animal travel more than 40 yards, most are DRT. Keep up the great work!
Not a long range shooter and agree on both sides of the fence. But i see these dudes shoot at the kyl rack or texas plinking and cant even touch steel. If you cant put a bullet in the bread basket every time dont take the shot. End of story. Nice vid gents
I know dogs don't like a 69 or 77 smk on a 22 creedmoor shot many vmaxs an blitz kings our of a 223 but deer coyotes whatever I've shot at with the match bullets doesn't handle it well
From hunting coues white tail and Muleys down by the border in Arizona. A 400 yard shot is considered a close shot. 5-600 is a pretty average shot.
I've been wanting to go hunt deer around Yuma wellton area, is there any good spots out there?
@@ChrisEdling honestly don’t get out to Yuma very often, maybe once or twice a year.
Eldm , A-Tip, sierra TMK BERGER types are legit big game bullets. Also please stop this ELK are big huge boned animal. Take a shoulder blade from a whitetail and an elk and the elk is a MM thicker. That's it. Also your not shooting through a 800 pound animal only a section of it. These animals are not armored where bullets bounce off.😂 Good pod cast
Can’t speak to 1000 yards…yet, but inside 200 yards the 225 eld-m turns the organs of a whitetail to jelly for a quick recovery.
🤙🏻🔥🇺🇸
.243 win with the 105 grain amax is aa deer killer...
What kind of “match” bullets is this author talking about? Things like the Hornady ELD-X and the Berger VLD hunter? Or is he talking about things like Nosler CCs?
Everyone knows 62gr green tips are the best elk cartridge on the market. Dunno who these guys are but sheesh, get with the times...
Based on his analogy, hunting with a rifle further than bow range isn’t hunting. Hunting with a bow further than you kill your prey with a rock isn’t hunting. Lol😂 things evolve.
Curly and Moe trying out logic, it did not go to well. Certified proof that garbage in equals garbage out.
Hey, I’m a tenured Professor of Logic from the University of Science. You must not have a dog house.
I've lost two big bucks using 105 grain 243 match type Burger bullets I will not be using match type boat tail hollow points again. Have killed many deer and coyotes with regular cup and core hunting bullets. The best are all copper bullets for deer in 6 mm caliber
Try the 108 ELDm
@@jdcamo1 this year used a 85 gr barnes 243 tsx and got a nice 10 point wt at 350 yards
Was it a vld?
I know the Berger vld pencils through if the tip is clogged
@@markoeberhardt3132 I think they blew up, one was definitely a shoulder hit. The jacket is too thin.
These boys obviously don’t hunt bear country gotta shoot shorter shots but man I’ll take copper bullets all day
Can someone please come up with acceptable and regulated distances for what is "Hunting" vs what is not considered ethical. Does the animal have to be standing at a certain angle within a given range? What if the animal is laying down? Is this no longer hunting? I watch video where someone shoots an animal at 800 yds and people say they should have walked in closer, screaming "this isn't hunting"! Then I see a video where someone shoots an animal which is bedding on the opposite hill and people scream this isn't ethical or sporting. And yet another video, the hunter come over a hill and end up behind an animal about 20 yards and people cry foul! Please come up with standard rules so all these keyboard hunters can quiet down ...... I hope everyone can see the sarcasm in this.
Match bullets don't perform well on large game they don't expand in fact its illegal in many places to use match ammo for big game because it's not going to give u enough performance when hunting moose large bears caribou elk etc where match bullets do have merits is specifically predators like coyotes fox possibly wolf and whitetail deer even every major ammo maker does not recommend match ammo because for game animals hunting specific ammo does better at dropping these game animals I have no experience hunting anything other than blackbear coyotes and moose mostly moose hunting and bullets that don't expand r useless or moose especially at long range I cannot speak to deer hunting or antelope
Its not hunting 😔. Its long range target practice on animals. Big difference between someone whos an actual hunter, and has the skill to stalk within 100yards or less of there pray. Vs a guy sitting on a hill somewhere halfmile away in bluejeans sniping a animal that has no fair chance. I think super long rang guys n gals are skilled shooters but poor poor hunters.