Why Many Rhythm Gamers Despise Friday Night Funkin': A Code Analysis | Tech Rules
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The following mods were shown during this video, in no particular order:
Vs Whitty by Sock.clip, Nate Anim8, KadeDev, bbpanzu: gamebanana.com/mods/44214
Vs Carol by bbpanzu: gamebanana.com/mods/42811
Vs Tricky by Banbuds, Rozebud, KadeDev, Cval, like a lot of other people: gamebanana.com/mods/44334
Vs Zardy by SwankyBox, Rozebud, StarnyArt, KadeDev: gamebanana.com/mods/44366
Vs Shaggy by SrPerez, Cony: gamebanana.com/mods/284121
Salty's Sunday Night by Tsuraran, Maqua: gamebanana.com/mods/43252
SSN Peppered: Follow @Tsuraran & / _tsuraran for updates.
Check out our Discord, Infinite Azure!
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I excessively talk about unimportant things on Twitter: / radhewc
Hey everyone! I know it's been a while, but hopefully the video kind of gives you an idea about what I've been up to lately. I wanna give a huge thanks to KadeDev for always being willing to provide help and for convincing me to make this video in the first place! I really hope I was able to do it justice! More videos coming very soon! Oh, and a few corrections/additions: I mentioned that the Week 7 input system MtH made was put into Kade Engine, but it wasn't just a copy/paste sort of thing. In fact, the way that the detection works is completely different, (keyboard callbacks instead of doing it in the update loop, to prevent frameskip-related issues) so it was pretty much overhauled. Simply stating that KE uses the new input system isn't really doing all of that justice. Also, it seems the Week 7 issue that I've mentioned has been fixed, as some of you pointed out. I think what we're waiting on now when it comes to desktop release/source is just extra modding support, which is great! Now would probably be the best time to do that, as everyone's more than likely going to want to update their mods to Week 7 when the source releases. Closed captions coming soon, by the way! I go pretty wildly off-script when I'm doing the voiceovers (Not to mention they're like an entire hour before I condense them to the most important parts) so just give me a bit to transcript everything!
Glad to see you diversifying your content to encompass whatever you'd like to talk about rather than just what does well.
yooo you're back
amogus
Yeah I am waiting for the FNAF 2 deconstruction as well
@Rhys Dittrich yes please
"But FNF is not a horror game!?1?" As opposed to those other horror classics that have been on Tech Rules: Space Channel 5 and Spyro 3.
spyro 3 made me piss myself in fear
I still see purple dragons in my nightmares to this day
Except one of which(Channel 5 ) being one of his LEAST popular videos, and completely ignoring the fact that the by far most consistently popular videos on his channel have been horror/creepy games he's dissected. FNF, Doki Doki, Baldi, creepy anti-piracy measures in games being 4 of the 6 most popular videos on his channel. Try again with a better strawman, moron.
@@gasaiyuno6021 I mean, I wouldn't really say that baldy is a horror game, I think he even mentioned that in the video itself, and the creepy anti-piracy video is mostly him debunking them. More like 2 outta 6
Exactly. They are trying to box him in. The channel is called tech rules not horror game rules
"hmm today i will try other rhythm games like etterna or osu" *clueless* *accidentally gets into touhou*
It’s funny because Touhou can be considered the FNF of STGs from a certain perspective
I mean, some stages are linked to the music to trigger certain attack waves, and the jams are Fuckin dopamine, so yeah
No.
@@greenD7244 Considering alot of shooter games were made to kill you and to make you put more money in an arcade machine, i guess that makes sense
Oh, don't get me started with NotITG stuff.
I think what people need to realize is that Friday Night Funkin' was not expected to hit this level of popularity. It's a Newgrounds game, and was a good one at that, but it certainly wasn't as polished as a game this popular usually is. While they prepared for mods, many of the things people did had completely unexpected effects, including fast songs being damn near impossible on the old engine. And yes, while these things were issues, we're talking about a version of the game that hadn't sprung to the popularity it had yet. People were asking more from and bashing a game that the devs hadn't even had a chance to fix yet. They were just unrealistic requests and criticisms simply because the devs didn't know about them beforehand, they didn't have as large of an audience to point out these things. Heck, they fixed a lot of the stuff in Week 7!
If only they made week 7 open source...
A TheAdvertisement comment under 100 likes? Impossible.
You're so right about everything. People have to remember that this is literally a 4-person indie dev group working on the game in a garage. It was CLEARLY not intended to be a huge game for every kind of player, and it's CLEARLY being worked on. Rhythm gamers bash on this game like it's marketed as the GOTY newest triple-A title or something
Adding to this, I feel as though they believe the devs literally don't care, all while the devs are adding to the game and polishing it. Before Week 7, the base game felt unplayable to me, but the update fixed so many charting issues and added loads of options that make the game much more customizable to your preference.
Guys no you cant have an opinion because (non-casual rhythm game) is better!!! Fnf is bad because i dont need to spend 10 years grinding for an fc for a singular song!!1
The issue I have with rhythm games is that easy difficulty is so easy but they're doing it WRONG. They can still have just as many buttons as the hardest difficulty, but have them face the same direction. The issue I had with FNF is that I cant listen to the rhythm and press the buttons to the rhythm on easy/medium. To have the rhythm fit with the buttons you must play on the hardest, but every single note is a different direction and that is obviously the hard thing about rhythm games, it isnt the rhythm, its usually not the speed, its the fact that it can go Left right left down up left down right right left up down right up. It fumbles with your brain. Spamming right 5x in a row really fast isnt hard but you can do it subconsciously by only having to listen mostly. So, yeah, I couldnt get to enjoy it too much
Yeah. Sometimes easy is hard because how slow it is.
This comment made me instantly remember Love Live School Idol Festival. The game itself is good but the easy difficulty is really boring.
@@muckdriver many rhythm games now usually have a scroll speed slider
Holy fucking shit y e s The reason a FUCKTON of rythm games are hard to get into are because you want to play TO THE BEAT but easier difficulties almost NEVER follow them along well enough and harder difficulties are impossible to play because you're a noob. I remember my cousin showed me Osu in 2017 and i thought it was shit because it didnt follow the rythm and was weird to play, then comes 2020 and i start watching Osu videos and learning about top players and im like "Daamn i remember this way back, i wanna play it"
@@UmCaraNormalnumPlanetanormalthere r some games like rhythm coaster that keeps a very similar rhythm but keeps its buttons simple. Hard mode involves more buttons but usually keeps a similar beat. Also, project diva has an item that turns it all into a single button and project Mirai Is similar with its touchscreen version.
Talking about rythm games, I'd love an analysis on Parappa games as they have quite a unique scoring system where you can go off-chart, improv and be rewarded for it.
Yeah, especially Um Jammer Lammy. You could hit all the notes perfect and go down to bad, then you could spam and go all the way to cool in only a few turns.
This reminded me of ad-libs from groove coaster
I second the motion!
I remember spamming and got cool lol
@@bingusdingus3999 *that god damn baby*
I love how everyone just immediately accepted the fact that this game has the spooky month kids. They were just like "ok cool I guess this is happening now"
They fit in really well. There's probably plenty of fnf fans who've never even seen sr pelo but love those kids.
ITS A SPOOKY MONTH
Actual facts LOL, and Im kinda shocked that they consider spooky kids as Newgrounds OG characters when AFAIK they debuted in youtube. I consider them like guest stars actually, eventually being tied to newgrounds much like how Bayonetta's exclusivity eventually made her like a pseudo nintendo character
@@MicroBihon No they made their first appearence on new grounds. Whenever SR Pelo releases an episode for spooky month, he releases it on newgrounds a couple minutes before youtube
hello fellow suction cup man fan
I started playing osu! mania after getting bored of fnf, and it made me realize how bad fnf was with inputs. I always thought it was my fault when I missed bc I was so focused on scoring well. I do like the more percussion oriented charting of mania type games tho, since it focuses on consistency instead of hitting fast out of sync bursts
but then you get your freedom dives
@@lickilicky5288 yeah freedom dive does have some interesting rhythm but it's not the worst. I guess it depends on the song and difficulty. I play around 3 to 4 star maps on 4k.
same, when i first switched to using kade engine for mods like bsides I thought that I was cheating since I was so much better than on the base engine
I tried osu and I had the opposite problem
@@tydude lo
Honestly respect to you for not highlighting bad examples of charting in mods. I really hate "cringe" culture and how it's perfectly normal to mock people's first attempts in a creative endeavor, and seeing you not sink to that is reassuring.
Problem is these trash charters refuse to take criticism and whine when someone rightfully calls them out. They act like they know how to chart like a god and say their spammy ass charts are just "too hard for u LOL GIT GUD" have you seen the casanova rechart? Well from what i have heard the devs made fun of it because the original charts were just an "april fools lol u made a better chart than we could ever make lol ur trash kid" so why are we condoning this behavior?
@@kha0ticdud3 I wouldn't know, since I don't play FNF and I'm not involved in the modding scene. I will say that that is extremely immature behavior that shouldn't be condoned, but calling out their work as trash still doesn't actually do anything to fix the problem, it just furthers the narrative that they're innocent people just trying to make what they love and they're being cyberbullied over the internet. One thing I _am_ involved in is the fanfic scene, where people like that are common. And yeah, they're childish and it's frustrating. But there's not really much to be done except roll your eyes and move on.
@Baxi Tabaxi FAX like the only things that really werent ruined were wii sports and scooby doo. However, because of the tricky (no shade to the devs, i absolutely love that mod), madness combat has pretty much been either infested with kids or shippers
@Baxi Tabaxi I feel like I need to give you a turing test before I actually engage with your point.
@Baxi Tabaxi i wonder what its like to live with a brain that requires you to rant on someone elses comment with 3 replies, then call them a stan when they dont care about your opinion, it must be nice...
The "Newcomers get scared of getting into other Rhythm games because elitism displayed by the community" is a serious topic that happen in a lot of places and doesn't get enough attention. It always reads to me like people want their interest to be niche in terms of members (to be "special"), but mainstream in terms of reach and acknowledge, which it can't.
I can't agree more. FNF's not the only game to have this issue, I've heard the exact same criticisms levied towards Guitar Hero and Osu- All these games pretty much hit mainstream popularity, they get a bit of disdain for some features and mechanics being weird or missing, many fans of these games have yet to discover that there's an entire genre of games like them, and as a result these fanbases are pretty much separated from the general rhythm game community. I've been thinking a lot about this elitism issue with fighting games. A lot of newer players kinda assume you need to be good enough to beat an EVO champion to enjoy most games, which isn't completely unfounded considering how many times I've fought NA's strongest Faust player in Guilty Gear on ranked matchmaking. And it's kinda compounded by the general disdain towards changes made to make the game more accessible to newer players. What got me past all this elitism, however, is how FGC content creators are making an effort to open discussion about these games, addressing the elitism and teaching newbies how to play. I've yet to really see channels address this elitism for rhythm games, and I think opening discussion like this would be the most important thing for the overall community.
@@rapidemboar4625 It's basically what happens to anything and everything under the sun. Books, movies, games, sports, music, fishing, knitting, house decoration, people always do this and there doesn't seem to be any real way to remove the phenomena.
THIS. I have always loved rhythm games since I was a kid. The genre introduced to me through Guitar Hero, then me moving on to Osu!, Project Mirai DX, Deemo and other games. I barely tapped into the community because every time I do I see the surface elitism and I feel incredibly intimidated by it. Despite playing these games for so many years I feel like a fake fan who isnt hardcore enough since I cant do the ultra difficult songs in these games even with so much practice. I know there are nice people and not everyone is like that, but I see that attitude enough that I dont dwell in the community for too long.
Other groups are starting to call it "gatekeeping" It surpasses any specific group and goes to the behavior. If someone tries to block out newcomers, that's usually what it can be called but I've seen it catch on in the fighting game community and other gaming places but it's up to the people of it appeals to them.
@@rensten4893 Gatekeeping can be justified in a sense of not wanting to totally turn off newcomers but rather to keep out people who might change the tide of the demographic to a more casual audience, which is understandable to a niche audience when so much entertainment is already dedicated to a casual audience. It would be like if somebody demanded the rules to a board game you like and are really good at be changed because somebody else wants to play too but doesn't want to take enough time to learn how to be a better player. At the end of the day, the game would be less fun for the core playerbase and knowing casual audiences would soon quickly abandon it for whatever the flavor of the month game was. The point is-- you wanna get into any community? Spend more time in it, adapt to the meta rather than demanding the meta adapt to you. This is why SFV was dissed by Street Fighter veterans and ArcSys is currently killing it.
Regarding your video content you should be free to make anything you want. Please don’t feel boxed into horror making horror videos 😁
I mean he doesn't do youtube for money so he should be able to do whatever the hell he wants
@@bendy514 even if he did is it wrong to change it around?
hello Haigs
I CAN'T EVEN ESCAPE YOU ANYWHERE WHY ARE YOU EVERYWHERE
@The Iron Armenian aka G.I. Haigs I lost count of how many time i've seen you in the comments of videos I like
Honestly I just like that this brought more people into the rhythm genre. Even with its coding flaws.
Yea I personally have a soft spot for it because of how popular it is and how so many people have fond memories of it that we all can share together
I sincerely believe that the final version of Friday Night Funkin' needs a key rebinding setting. I cant manage hitting Up and Down right after one another, so I'd much prefer to just have my inputs be A, S, D, and F.
you do realize you can rebind keys already right?
I think it's way too late to change the default settings
week 7 update has this
@@shokanshok3198 Oh Thanks
@Kadir Garip Well, you press the keys on the keyboard.
People seriously said "oh it's not a horror game" or "there aren't any hidden mechanics" as reasons to NOT do this video? Your channel name is Tech Rules, not Horror Game Breakdowns or Secret Game Mechanics or smth.
They think only horror games and gsmes with tons of secrets use tech beyond coding, which they don't consider worth discussion...
I'd actually like to hear him talk about some concepts that evolved over time, things like rendering the screen. I didn't expect this channel to be horror only and I hope it won't be.
@@dennyg3315 no, it’s not overreacting
@@dennyg3315 how is that overreacting at all. it isn’t your channel to decide what’s interesting and what isn’t
@@termsypoo He said in the video that the reason was they doubted the video would be interesting/ didn't see a good topic in it, not that they didn't think it fit the channel, so the original comment's point is moot. This guy isn't saying that the video wasn't interesting.
"It's not a horror game" Buddy, failing the song in the final stretch is horror enough
Or going into Week 7 blind and getting hit with Tankman (figuratively - this isn't a mod) ascending in Guns.
"It's not a horror game." Bob: Are you challenging me?
@@jasonwalton9553 especially tricky
Aaaaaand lemon demon
Nah, seeing anyone fail a song in fnf is horror
Went from ragequitting dadbattle to beating foolhardy in 2 months. “You can get better by having fun” is the most truthful thing here.
@@meatman69696 "bRo It ToOk YoU tWo MoNtHs To BeAt FoOlHaRdY? PfT i aM sUcH a SuPeRiOr bEiNg EvEn ThO i CaN't EvEn SpelL
@@meatman69696 cry about it
The latency problem is more problematic than you made it out to be. I am a casual at rhythm games and still felt it and how annoying it was. They really need to look into it
Oh, it's you! I love your exposing videos, man.
Agreed. I've played one other rhythm game for any length of time and the latency and dropped inputs were absolutely unacceptable for me
@@Dani-tu5gi it's a broken game. i can barely make it through a song in ddr but i know how to hold down a beat and i can tell the difference between a note that's on time and one that's not. apparently that's sacrilege to these people, they're just playing it for "fun(???)"
@@tsvtsvtsv youtube commenter discovers playing games for fun and not focusing on the problems
YOOOOOOOOOOO A 30 MINUTE VIDEO LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOOO. love you tech rules :D
ay kade
Mmmm
Eyyyy
Hey I know you might hate getting asked stuff while enjoying something but do you know if the creator of Whittiy is doing alright
Ikr
To be fair, ninjamuffin did call himself "the yanderedev of rhythm games"
A red flag as big as your oldest brother having his waifu in front of the Vatican City flag as his profile pic.
That sounds like self-deprecating humor to me
@@ragemode2627 ...do you know from experience??
Does he respond to every single e-mail he gets?!
@@KetsubanSolo about a month ago about 3/4 of the devs deactivated their twitter accounts and became less active on the site since, I assume they're working on the game rn, with ninjamuffin doing some coding and working on making music as a side thing
I don't really care for FNF but as a muse dash player I can relate to the feeling of being attacked by elitists, since muse dash gets a lot of the same complaints from elitists about it being "too easy for dumb babies" etc. when I just wanna chill and press buttons in time to the music.
elitists needs to understand that many people play a game to have fun and chill not to always try hard and try to become the best and it's kind of the reason i liked fnf because it isn't that hard at all really accesible and simple and fun to play and most of the good mods with good songs that are considered "difficult" really aren't that hard imo so all what i do is having fun with banger songs(except if the chart is boring which yeah kinda screws it up at times) and little question is muse dash free or a pay to play game? i would really like to give it a try and see if i can enjoy it
Does people really say Muse Dash is easy? I bet they never even tried the PC version or never played Taiko No Tatsujin.
I was going to say that if people enjoy FNF and want to get more into rhythm games, muse dash is probably a great place to start. The immediate skill ceiling on a lot of rhythm games can be super high right off the bat, and I feel like MD is just a lot easier to get into purely because there aren’t a lot of buttons you even need to worry about. I actually really enjoy muss dash as a casual rhythm game player, and I think it’s a good stepping stone for people coming into the rhythm community from FNF, which is honestly a really good thing imo
Muse dash too easy for dumb babies? are these people talking about a muse dash from another universe or smh?
@@pattrojo6229fr
I don't know if there's a technical limitation that prevents this, but any song that's recorded at something like say, 120.5 bpm could have its BPM set to double the value (e.g., 241 bpm) and charted as if it's at half-time. Girlfriend would be headbanging at an insane speed but the song would chart accurately without needing to change the tempo.
Girlfriend brain damage? A small price to pay for salvation.
"You'll get better just by having fun." I agree with that statement all the way. Considering FNF was my first rhythm game. I knew other rhythm games was harder but after seeing my improvement in such a short time, I decided to try others ones. I'm playing games like OSU and such and it's really fun. Yeah sure, there are so many players better than me. So what? I enjoyed the game in the 2 months I've played it and I can keep up with the "hardest" mods. Regardless, continuing spitting those facts.
man i feel you, i kinda hit my skill cealing and not seeing much actual improvemen but i still have fun on rhythm games, so you definetly dont need to be "good" to have fun on other rhythm games
I'm extremely good at fnf. I decided to try Osu and BARELY got a C on the first song after 5 tries.
This is what I love to see with FNF, when it inspires people to play other rhythm games(speaking as an avid rhythm game fan, been playing rhythm games over the last.... 18 years, love them to death)! Honestly, this is definitely the healthy mentality to have with them. Improvement comes with the fun, and then if you REALLY wanna improve, get to that higher level, you can. Hell, I do it with every new rhythm game I play! I hope more people like y'all keep enjoying rhythm games, and finding those fun experiences, your favorite bops from each game you play, all that! And as a personal recommendation, look up Muse Dash! It's a pretty simple rhythm game, very fun and visually engaging, and there are SO many good songs in it(it's 30 bucks for the Just As Planned pack, basically the full game, but that guarantees you all but like one or two DLC packs, and they're constantly adding more DLC over time, so you'll have PLENTY of content to enjoy)!
To me most other rythm games i played waren't that fun but that's just my opinion.
@@nintendork9207 My friends encouraged me to play FNF and I really enjoyed it. I just like the music while enjoying doing the notes. it took me 3 days to beat ballistic and that was the first ever song i did on fnf. Sure i didn't go through the problems others had. Now tho, i think i can try other rhythm games now that difficulty ain't a issue with me.
This dude is totally right And the terrible charting thing is really horrible sometimes As a rythm game casual/old gamer it felt kinda hard for example mid fight masses charting was bad tbh and comparing to what i was used to it felt like crap to play it (even if the music is good)
>mid fight masses charting was bad tbh i mean you’re not wrong
Ah yes the charting, as someone who's played rhythm games in the past as well I can agree that sometimes it feels god awful. However I always keep in mind the fact that a lot of modders/mappers for FNF have never done that before thus ending in wide variety of results.
@@Hakarasan well It might be a bit pardonable if they never did that before but damn If they're going for the "i will make the most spammy map ever to make it hard" thing it's just bad like yeah your songs are good but why don't you let casuals enjoy it? Mid fight masses got some bs charts even on easy and tbh i even tried to maybe remap it a bit so at least I could enjoy the song without using KZhead
Also take in mind, i grew up with guitar hero as my main game so you could see a bit of the problem i have with spammy charts
As a more casual gamer I gotta say, yeah mid fight masses' charting is horrid. The fact that they joked about the charting being created by the devil was cheeky and funny but it was bad. The charting for Parish before the dude that came along to do all the charting actually looked fun.
As someone who's been way deep into Stepmania and ITG for the last decade, the charting of a majority of these songs, as well as the terrible latency/offset, was a HUGE dealbreaker for me liking FNF, and I'm so glad it got addressed here. I WANT to enjoy this game, but those two issues are a huge hurdle to get over first. EDIT: 2 years later and there's still no offset options. Title of this video is still wholly accurate.
Wait, i thought it was fixed in the Week 7 update.
@@ssseee3ds463 they fixed (most of) the charting and button inputs, but they have yet to put in any kind of options for offset calibration for lag.
@@ChaosUnown oh okay, i understand now. thanks for responding me :)
Agree agree agree. I love ITG, and exactly because of what you mentioned... it's hard to enjoy the game.
As weird as the charting looks, it's mostly a first attempt at something like this. Shit who's to say future prominent charters start with fnf
as someone who’s played the bass for the majority of my life & who knows at least a thing or two about rhythm games, hearing you describe the gameplay issues in the first half of this video made me SQUIRMMMM latency especially is the bane of my existence when it comes to this stuff - hell, i even had a real life instrument i had to ditch because the string material was stretchier than i was used to, so it would release from my fingers later than i expected it to & it made me off-beat. i think what i’m trying to say is i really appreciate how in-depth this video goes! that, or i just wanted my pain to be understood djdhdhd
Hats off to tricky 2.0: literally made features to say “f you” to the most common strategy by just adding fire notes
@@bostondabman6351 What about SSN
@@bostondabman6351 What about Shaggy? What about Amogus? What about Neo, HD, and other re-charts of the original FNF? Sky? There are way too many mods I can name off the top of my head that aren't note spam.
@@Ze_eT shaggy has nine notes, Hd is Fnf but cleaner with added mechanics that were gonna be in the game but they were scrapped and sky got deleted and the recharts are just some notes taken out to make the game better
bostondabman 1 What about Smoke em Out Struggle?
@@luxthewriter in the dialogue he thinks your cool also he doesn’t follow the same formula as every mod: Calm Mad Then final form
Honestly, what I want are rhythm games that actually feel good to play even at easier difficulties. It feels like, possibly because the needs of “elite rhythm gamers” dictating how levels are made, that they make easy and medium levels just to say that they have them. Like with Beat Saber how many levels only really get good and fun at hard and above. I don’t really care about scores and combos. I just like hitting things to the beat of some damn good music. Edit: Did not expect this to get this many replies so quickly O - O
As someone that is average when it comes to rhythm games its so frustrating to play levels in lower difficulties because you can tell they didn't focus on making it feel good to play. In some games theres songs I want to play but they are only on ultra ultra hard difficulties, no normal or even hard, just the upper tiers of difficulty.
@@fm9473 - Yup. I'm definitley not against hard levels. In Beat Saber I downloaded two fanmade maps (Shelter by Porter Robinson & Madeon, and Back in Black by AC/DC) and they were stupid hard. If I'm remembering right they're both listed as "expert." and when I finally managed to beat them it was totally a thrill. Problem is, I don't always want to go that fast and hard. Maybe I'm tired that day, maybe I'm just not feeling it. But no one actually wants to make the "noob beatmaps" and it sucks.
Rhythm Heaven :)
@@KlutzyNinjaKitty As a Beat Saber mapper, allow me to give my two cents on this. Maps of all difficulties exist. I recommend bsaber, you can search difficulties/genres/etc. There my not be a map for every song you want, but hey, then you could map them! Difficulty names on many custom maps aren't much to go on if they only have one difficulty, especially for people who make only like one map. I recommend finding a mapper you enjoy more than the songs, you'll find that each mapper has their own style. If you still can't find any well-mapped songs, check out the (post-2018) ranked maps! Despite the stigma of it being super hard, there are maps for all players there and they are all curated to be good. .... Thanks for coming to my TED Talk
Anime rhythm games are surprisingly casual friendly if you don't mimd pretty boys and cute girls in anime form. Scores are based mostly off your members in a unit though but as long as you have fun with the songs scores shouldn't bother you much since they don't take away anything from the songs
I used to be a fnf player who thought mashing my way to hellclown means that I'm actually a good player and after I switched to osu mania fnf just became a nightmare to play, even my favourite mods just became repetitive and not fun at all. I am definitely appreciating how good I have it with mania
eWwW OsU pLayEr EwWWwwW (this is a joke pls dont take this seriously)
I used to be an fnf player than a friend introduced me to the roblox pvp versions and then I started cleaning the floor with people and then I started installing better games than roblox and then I forgot roblox existed and then I got rusty and stopped playing all together along with abandoning my favorite roblox fps game, impulse my beloved
waaait, mash to hellclown? do you just mean surviving the first two songs, or what because Hellclown has those hurt notes that make mashing not feasible
@@alecrutz6979 He means mashing the first two songs
@@bumblebeegamerreal oh ok
Finally, someone recognizes the struggles of playing a rhythm game on a chromebook.
@Sians5769 Indeed
This game actually is a horror game, just only in the code.
also visually
@@elliot_rat the game looks beautiful what do you mean?
Tbf it is a neegeounds game. Not exactly a high point for coding
@@illford6921 the art style looks like actual vomit
@@elliot_rat how exactly?
Just want to say that I love this kind of criticism. My issue with the criticism it got when it first really took off was that it was hard to find detailed info at least for me. Gotta be honest, a lot of it felt like "it's bad cuz it's bad" and excluding content creators, a lot of it was also kind of condescending towards people who enjoyed the game. That's not to say people in the community were all nice either. As you said, it was basically just bad faith arguments back and forth. I stepped away from rhythm games in general after hearing my 50th "this game sucks" without any further elaboration. Though I have started getting back into them. They are pretty cool. I'm not very good but I don't really care honestly. If you're like me and hated the discourse surrounding this game but still enjoyed it and wanted to give "real" (other) rhythm games a try feel free. It's a cool genuinely skill based genre about self improvement and growth more than anything. At least from what I can tell.
man i need that thanks
I saw soooo many poeple say things like "this is not a true rythm game" or "you like it only because it's popular". So this comment made me happy.
Yo, and I thought I was the only one that only mainly saw "it's bad because it's bad lmao stfu"
No matter the situation those types of arguements are utterly god awful & deserve to be ignored entirely it sucks since for some short while everyone was like "FNF has the most wholesome fanbase ever" & that joyride is finally kinda crashing down altho I kinda knew that would always be the case either in that some just might not see the more toxic sides or it just eventually happens but I don't mean that in a pessimistic way it's just the good & the bad every fandom has that but I do agree it's so nice to see some give actually well structured arguements the internet in general is filled with a lot of that kinda bs
I've been a rhythm game player all my life. While I do understand the problems plaguing it (and it's what making the game 'unpolished' for me), FNF is absolutely still fucking good. It's like Parappa with DDR gameplay. Hopefully it doesn't deter you from rhythm games though. There's a lot of them with different gameplay and maybe you'll find a new one you'd like. It'll give you a perspective on why others have that (terrible) take towards FNF - but this is why they'll make a full proper game.
Another problem in Friday night funkin is the difficulty spike from week 1 to week 2, during week 1 you just chill, few moments later you get beaten by 2 kids obsessed with Halloween because the charting is complicated and messy, there are notes that look like double notes but they aren't, you need to do multiple inputs quickly and easy difficulty isn't easy at all
skill issue (jk)
it’s because the games lies to you the actual weeks are 1 dad 2 pico 3 mom 4 spooky boys 5 mom and dad christmas thing then 6 and 7
love how he's showing tricky freaking tf out while talking about other rhythm gamers hating the game lol
@Baxi Tabaxi what?
@Baxi Tabaxi are you 12? Its a game on newgrounds, not good vs evil jeez
@@leaffinite3828 edgy 'popular thing bad!!!' kids tend to be 12 or 13 yeah
Holy hell you could easily swap out the last 5 minutes of this video to talk about the Beat Saber community XD. Seriously I hate that "fun comes second, break your face to finish this song" elitists. Folks really can take things waaaaaaaay too seriously.
Exactly. I'm not the best at beat saber player, but I'm not too bad either. Something like 19,000th globally in ranked. When I try to play levels that the best of the best play, all I can think is "why?" There's practically no rythem or flow to them Its just wrist-breaking arm flailing to music.
@@Omegapork YES EXACTLY! There is a flow that makes a good song truly special and 99% of insane 1/2 mod songs dont have it.
@@Omegapork the beat saber maps at high difficulty do follow music, if you are playing the right music genre (speedcore, hardcore, and generally really high bpm tracks), this comes from a decent VSRG player that has spend a couple of days in BS. There are a lot of bad maps too. And this happens on any, literally any, rythym game. The thing is: some peoples (including me) play for having a really hard challenge that they can only overcome by training. When you get used to the highest difficulties, you start to crave for something more. The challenge of beating a track that you couldn't before, the great sensation when you feel when you finally do it. It's like doing drugs, in facts, I consider rythym games the best type of drug. Beat Saber is still on it's early days and mapping has to mature a bit, I'm pretty sure in the following months or years we will start to get interesting and really well flowing maps.
any rhythm game has difficult songs, it's usually just up to you find easy songs to play
@@Omegapork >wrist breaking arm flailing to music >no rhythm idk that sounds like rhythm to me
I semi-seriously played etterna for about 6 months, mostly just trying to have fun with it, but about 5 months in, i joined their discord and asked for tips on improvement. Instead of tips, I just got relentlessly shit on by some top players (talking about you yoshi cloud man) in the community, because i wasn't that great. There is definitely a long way to go in the rhythm game community in terms of being friendly to newer players.
The etterna community sucks a fat one lol (that guy you're referring to who I remember included)
the etterna community should burn in hell
wah wah internet people rude to me?? wttffff
Well you don’t have to be a jackass whether your online or not.
@@kaletaa1949 sometimes people just suck.
A part of me that is worried about FNF is the sheer number of mods coming out. And especially since the OFFICIAL new game is gonna take around two years before its gonna come out. I fear that the mods will burn out the game and fans will be quick to compare the games to the mods and rather opt to playing the hundreds of free mods instead of buying the game. Just a thought. Also fanbases always ruin everything
Damn mate... you just made me remember Undertale. Thankfully, I don't have any idea on what had happened when the Undertale modding and fanfic scene started appearing. I immediately dipped out of it, and thank goodness I immediately dipped out on this too(i.e. being obsessed with FNF, like everyone else) when mods started appearing. I was like, "...well shit, ain't this second coming of Undertale?"
@Baxi Tabaxi The problem isn't the fanbase, trust me. The real problem is the fact than there a children part in the fanbase. Remember when Whitty was cancelled? Yeah, that wasn't the FNF fanbase who did this, it was again, the kids part of the community*.
Same, I’m sick of seeing every single thing rapping a blue haired boy.
True this could be really a problem especially since some mods got really high quality recently like indie cross and hotline but I am still waiting for the full game and hope for the best
Dang dude lay off ben shartpiro Or idk nihilism channels ? Any ways nothing new with fandom toxicity just stick to chill ppl and that’s it. Edgelord always ruin everything
as someone who starting playing other rhythm games because of fnf, i love this game as a introduction to rhythm games. Its simplistic nature made the game very easy to pick up and learn and as i reached a point where i felt i wasnt being challenged anymore i switched to other games and without this game i would not be able to play other rhythm games
Same I didn't switch yet because I still enjoy the mod songs fnf has but I will probably start to alter between fnf and osu
same i still play fnf but i also play osu mania
Seeing Woops FnF videos, taking on all the 'tough' mods without even batting an eye made me realize just how nutty long time rhythm game players are. In the meantime I can't break into double digit difficulties in Stepmania 5 because I have trouble with high scroll speeds and slowing that down makes it difficult to tell what order notes come in. My attempts to find charts in this odd middle difficulty have been fruitless. Funnily enough a lot of fnf mods hit this spot
Yea after the vid with whitty I knew rhythm veterans would crush this game Edit was a vital spelling error
@420 but vaxei doesn't play mania
lol he does so much clickbait
@@mathieu3318 no? It's just art for the thumbnails, and the titles are always " rythym game veteran vs. (List mods here) FnF" And he is a rythym game veteran and he's one of the top beat saber players in the world, and I quote " I was second for a short time, top 10 for a while and top 32 for even longer"
@@abirb6421 He failed on tutorial looks very veteran to me. And also suffered on week 1
11:40 Most rhythm games do actually have anti-mash systems, it’s just that it’s handled far differently to what FNF uses. What most games do is set an “early miss” timing window to something like -200ms before the note, subtracted by the gap from the last note. That way if you hit a note that doesn’t exist, it won’t detract from your score, but you still can’t mash out. FNF however based it on Guitar Hero where the “early miss” timing window is -infinity.
"early miss" timing in guitar hero is only -infinity in Guitar Hero 3 and Clone Hero, im not exactly sure what the numbers are for other games but its definitely a lot less than infinity
@@LysiX There’s a difference between pressing a button outside the timing window, and tapping too early for the note to hit, which is what I mean by “early miss”. Games with anti-mash have a large “early miss” window that has lower priority than other judgements due to how overlapping judgements work. However, some games opt to not really care about the specifics of their anti-mash, and rather than having it be a devoted timing window, they just set it to whatever happens if you press too early to reach any other timing window. This is what Guitar Hero, Audica, Flash Flash Revolution, and FNF do. Also, the “early miss” window is infinite in every Guitar Hero game, regardless of which engine version it’s on. In Guitar Hero it’s relative to strumming instead of holding a fret due to how the mechanics work.
Could you explain this "early miss" concept in more detail? You existing comments in this thread don't do it for me.
@@Adamantium9001 Some rhythm games use an “early miss” timing window as an anti-mash tool. Say, -500ms, unless it overlaps another note: in which higher judgements will take priority relative to the earliest note the receptors are at.
@@crimson-foxtwitch2581 That's not really explaining it in more detail; it's just repeating yourself. So I guess I'll have to do more of the heavy lifting here. In a 4k game, WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENS if you input a left arrow during the early-miss window of a left arrow? What happens if you input a left arrow during the early-miss window for an up arrow? HOW does this behaviour discourage mashing?
I thought this was gonna get into the weird trend in a majority of rhythm games where they're really more about reacting to visual cues than feeling any sort of rhythm. At most, the rhythm acts as a sorta timing guideline while the visuals give you most the information, and at worst, the game is actually easier to play muted because the rhythm can actually be misleading.
this is my problem with fnf tbh- and especially because it won't let you push buttons to the beat in spots with no notes - when i played, it felt more like i was relying on hand-eye coordination than actually playing a song - and coming fresh off project diva (okay, coming fresh off project mirai on the 3ds)... that didn't really work in my mind, as (and especially for harder/faster songs like gaikotsu gakudan to riria) i'll sort of tap the screen or press buttons idly trying to figure out the song, sort of, and then coming to fnf where it penalises you for that (i guess to keep players from rolling their hands on their keyboards and winning - but if that's a strategy you have to actively fight against (presumably because it works somehow but is obviously now how you're meant to play it at all) then uh... maybe rethink a few things about your game?) i was like "yeah, no, i literally can't play this. this is not how i vibe." lmao-
Don't worry about focusing on horror games, I love watching any video where you delve into a game and show us stuff we wouldn't otherwise have known. Keep it up bro
Thank you for accurately summing up basically every feeling I have about FNF, as a longtime rhythm game player of average skill. That "average skill" bit is important because it helped me understand both sides, pro and anti. As a longtime player, it wasn't hard to look at videos of the game and some of the mods and say "Oh, wow, that lag is really obnoxious, how are people okay with that," or "This person has probably never made a note chart in their life, that doesn't look remotely fun, it's just hard for the sake of hard." But as an "average" player (primarily of Stepmania) who's struggled with community elitism and with finding fun charts that are in my skill range (because as with many scenes, the people who stuck around had long ago reached the skill ceiling), FNF looks like a fun pick-up-and-play kind of rhythm game. It's a very simple, classic setup in a very neat package. So yeah, great video.
I hate it when people make some horrible note spam and pass it off as “hard”. A hard song isn’t one that’s a bunch of random spam, but one that is actually made well and has challenge in following the beat
@Shin Shaman Uhh, try to be a part of a game fandom with like 10 people and you will understand why introducing your favorite game to others is necessary for the game to alive (in short, try to be a Caligula Effect or 7th Dragon fan) Everyone is a beginner at some point, “weirdo”, newbie will become the “real ones” someday.
@Shin Shaman Detach your brain from the adrenaline silo, please...
@Shin Shaman any weirdo can and should be able to join any group he wants if we’re talking about a rhythm game. I don’t see how me saying that bad attempts at being a hard song by spamming notes is dumb is related to you trying to have a small and elite community while also wanting the thing associated with the community as famous. The only thing your comment proves is that you are an absolute asshole that no one would want to be near. This is a fact, not an opinion. If you think your community on a VERY popular game needs to be very elitist and so all mods should just be note spam to the point of wearing a blindfold and having a seizure on the mouse simply so that people who want to enjoy a game can’t enter your kool kidz klan is stupid, and you deserve to not be allowed to ever be associated with the game ever again. Leave. *Now.*
@@AbyssDwellerthetokutuber Just ignore Shin, he's been copying and pasting that stupid thing everywhere in the comments.
One more aspect to the accuracy vs mashing thing is that I've found a pretty distinct difference between Japanese developed rhythm games vs western ones. Japanese rhythm games tend to focus entirely on accuracy, and don't penalize the player at all if they hit inputs when there's no note there. Rather, they score solely on how close to one specific input your input of that same button was. For example, in the Hatsune Miku games you can spam any button any time (so long as it's not near an upcoming input of that one button) and never get penalized for it. I find that this system really helps for improvement and for adjusting to different difficulties since you can even go down a difficulty and still maintain the same muscle memory from a higher difficulty with more notes in the chart, since you can still hit those notes and not be punished for it. Meanwhile western style rhythm games will actively punish the player for hitting random inputs whenever. Look at Guitar Hero for example, how your score and combo drops every time you strum even if there's no notes on screen. If you start getting used to higher difficulties, you'll actually start to get worse at lower ones thanks to unconsciously remembering "oh, there was a note there" and hitting it when there was nothing, and then you suddenly lose your combo.
The "punishing of random inputs" is definitely a factor I can't get past whenever trying out a new rhythm game, because I tend to completely follow the rhythm and hit notes that aren't there on easy/easier charts when I'm trying to full-combo them, since there will be similar notes there in the more difficult charts anyway, or when I want to just have fun playing an easier stage without the dedicated effort of pushing through the next difficulty level. Whenever a rhythm game does that, I'm just turned off by the whole experience and tend to delete it because that limits the experience to only challenging charts for me and doesn't really allow any wiggle room to encourage growth between difficulty stages.
I have played GH since GH2 , and that has NEVER been an issue. You should almost never be thinking "oh, there was a note there" when playing Easy vs. Expert because the info you're getting about what to hit next is very clearly coming down the fretboard, not some half-remembered version of an easier/harder chart. The only time this WOULD be an issue is if you're playing Performance mode where the fretboard is removed and you're trying to play by memory (or by playing blindfolded/back to the TV, etc.). Or, alternatively, you're mis-reading what note you're supposed to be playing because it's coming at you faster than you can simultaneously read the pattern and move your fingers accordingly. It sounds genuinely baffling to me that anyone could, say, FC a song on Expert no problem, drop down to Easy, and struggle to FC that because they're trying to play notes that aren't there. Just read the notes that are actually on the fretboard and you will have basically 0 issues in that regard. If a part of a song on Expert has a 3-note gallop but on Easy is a single note, if your goal is to FC Easy why would muscle memory ever tell you to play a gallop over a single note? Hell, that's not even an issue for me on more "Japanese-style" rhythm games such as Osu (which I actively play right now) or Stepmania (which I don't play, but I did at one point). I've never at any point started playing the notes for an Extra difficulty chart on an Easy one except to joke around during breaks.
>project sekai >one of the strictest input systems choose one
I can't fault the Guitar Hero games for doing that, the big selling point was to make the player feel like they're playing some sort of guitar so having extra inputs make those nasty little squawks is part of it. Same for FNF, it messes with the call n' response feeling if you can blast random notes. I think everyone's glad the new input systems exist but penalizing extra hits was the right call at the time
@@shukterhousejive ALso, i feel like having the squawks is a good indicator to you that you're strumming unnecessarily. Keep in mind that, on guitar, you can fret however much you want, but it's the strums that will make the noise and break combo.
you know i do find it kinda funny that We went from FNAF to just FNF in terms of communities that are controversial in their own game genres. what? is the next craze gonna have the acronym FN? and then F -oh fuck that's already a meme-
The only rythmgame I ever really got into is Dedede's drum dash on 3DS. It is interessting to hear the analysis either way tho.
Late, but finally someone of true culture
I always thought the arrow calibration is slightly off in FNF
it's very off, if you actually play to the music it would be 80% good and basically no sick
I only play in hard because in normal the notes are unsynchronized but sometimes it's kinda unfair. cough* cough* ROSES LAST PART cough* cough*
Some people think that too. A KZheadr I watch (YuB) played the tutorial and got jokingly pissed about the chart being off the beat.
Me too
Isnt the offset is caused by hardware and software issues?
I agree with one of the last statements that you made. That the antagonistic way that hardcore rhythm gamers talk about FnF and it's fanbase sets people off from trying other rythm games. I've personally felt this... I feel like FnF is really approachable in a lot of ways, and acts as a gateway for people to discover more about both Newgrounds and other Rhythm games, both things that a lot of the people playing it may have not known much about before. So the way that instead of being welcoming to people new to the genra they just sort of backtalk how easy FnF is and that it isn't a real rhythm game is extremely antagonistic in a way that drives a lot of people off from feeling like they'd be allowed to play the other games. Like, okay. So if FnF is apparently really easy and I struggle even a little bit with a lot of it, that means that I would just suck too much at the other rhythm games and just shouldn't try. It's a bad atmosphere that I wish didn't exist.
"So if FnF is apparently really easy and I struggle even a little bit with a lot of it, that means that I would just suck too much at the other rhythm games and just shouldn't try." EXACTLY, is an autodestructive sentiment, and the community and the genre only loses for it. I remember when I started playing project diva, and for a long time I had to struggle with feeling "unworthy" because I could barely do normal clears (not even full chains). I kept on and improved, so these days I don't mind, but newcomers shouldn't struggle to enjoy a game they paid for just because elitism.
those people probably don't know that easy maps exist in other rhythm games too lmfao coming from a person who can clear 5* on osu!mania and 25's on quaver
I competely agree, The way some older rhythm game players talked about fnf definitely pushed a lot of potential players away, especially since a lot of the fnf players are kids. My first rhythm game I actually enjoyed was fnf and was my gateway to rhythm games but seeing the responds from the community was disappointing and made new players coming from fnf not want to even try to play. Also idk why older players are acting the game supposed to be perfect or that it can't be easy? There are easy maps in every games and fnf is obviously entry level for new players. When I had tried to play games like osu mania before fnf, I felt kinda intimidated and was mad at myself that I wasn't good (not saying osu isn't good for beginners but it can be more frustrating for them) Fnf is good for new players since it gives a more beginner safe zone and most players are beginners! This is literally the best chance for other rhythm games to get newer players lol.
why the heck is every comment as long as an essay
@@noone1863 because the vid is literally a video essay so of course ppl are gonna respond in the comments as such with longer thoughts
Your statement about the modders trying to one-up each other couldn't be more accurate
Hey if you want another casual rhythm game, try the Rhythm Heaven series!
Rhythm heaven is the best rhythm game series
Or Project Diva
or Parappa the Rapper, Taiko no Tatsujin, Vib-Ribbon and Scratchin’ Melodii
I actually play rhythm heaven and it’s one of my favorite games in general
or Just Shapes and Beats, Project Arrythimia (It's not a copy, It's not a copy, It's not a copy), or Beat Saber, although it's a bit more intense as it's in vr.
Friday Night Funkin helped get me into rhythm games. I had played a few before, but this game really got me hooked because of it’s style. It got me to try more rhythm games and now I really enjoy them. It also got me into Newgrounds and I learned more about those characters as well.
fnf made get into etterna and osu!mania
same bro, except I knew (but forgot) about newgrounds
try DJMAX RESPECT V, it's very well made, if a little expensive, but usually goes dirt cheap on sale
Rhythm Heaven Fever got me into rhythm games but then fnf got me into osu!mania.
Fnf made me a madness combat fan
I think an interesting video you could make would be on tomodachi life, I'm still surprised how much detail such a simple game has
Same! I've had my game for 3+ years and I still like going back to play it every now and again, I hope it gets a good port like Miitopia
Yes, it's fantastic
The famous pen island
I second this
Yes.
The new update REALLY helps, im not so good at rythm games and I literally couldnt complete week 2 because of the issues, but my first time playing it on the new update i completed it. Im hoping i can complete it on hard now lol.
Fun fact: Spookeez used to be so difficult, they had to rechart the entire song! Also, Week 2 was meant to come after Week 4!
tech: bad charting was pretty common in early mods me: *mid fight masses flashbacks, and flashforwards, probably* edit: just to clarify, i love mfm, just not the charting and the kind of pissy response that was casanova when people started saying talking abt the charting i love casanova (the song) by the way
This
Most of mods are overcharted nowdays but I'm ngl I'm a fan of the mfm chart in normal, hitting the doubles it's pure satisfaction.
@@VIXANDRE1498 okay but you have to admit that casanova, even though it’s a joke to charting complainers, just feels like normal mfm charting zavodila really feels like some parts of the old ballistic chart, shiver
@@triangulum_mori I like the old ballistic but I tried to play it yesterday,maaaan.
@@triangulum_mori I did foolhardy first try, but ballistic with the double notes I died multiple times, two of the same note it's the worst thing in fnf.
Honestly I think Persona 4 Dancing All Night was a surprisingly good rhythm game! One of my favorite charts in the whole genre is The Fog. I love how the chart and chorography all combine together to tell a story with an amazing song. It's just the right blend of fun and difficult as well, especially on the hardest difficulty. As a rhythm game fan it took me along time to finally get a King Crazy (no misses at only Great and Perfect) and it's still one of my proudest achievements due to how fun it was.
The thing I hate most about the "Anti-mashing" thing is that it penalizes you more than missing a note, so if I got to a part in a song I couldn't keep up with, it was more advantageous for me to just stop pressing notes, since that didn't penalize me as much especially if I picked 2 of the 4 arrows to actually press. It's especially bad when I just barely miss a note and get both a penalty for missing the note AND for pressing a note wrong. A mechanic in a rhythm game that makes it more viable to not press notes is a pretty bad mechanic in my opinion
the bad and to a degree safe rating in project diva is a pretty good example of good antimash. bad has the same results as a miss and the safe rating breaks your combo if you managed to mash with somewhat good timing
“If the charting was bad, it would be a mess of arrows that aren’t fun, don’t match the song, and serve no purpose” Me: *cough cough mid fight masses cough cough*
casanova hardest *cough cough*
@@camaflasher8381 nah its just whooping vough at that point
Don't forget about Peculiar Colors (the new fnf mod with horrible charting)
@@camaflasher8381 on alt perhaps idk never played it, but on hard i reckon gospel is still the hardest due to having pretty much any health bar drain whatsoever when you miss
@@kalenipclaw5683 its not about if its hard, its about the spam
I guess this explains why I thought the game was absolutely amazing on the presentation front and the music slapped hard as fuck, but still couldn't help but think "Can't wait for all these songs to get mapped in Osu! Mania"
osu!mania LOL
osu players 😶
dnc do not care
@@telesnow fnf players 😶🤮
@@telesnow "FNF good, osu! bad"
One of my favorite rhythm games is Project Diva. The songs are amazing, and the inputs are SUPER responsive. I tried out FNF a good while back and the inputs were garbage in my opinion. Even ignoring the fact that there was no key remapping and you have a SUPER cramped input area (the direction arrows on the keyboard), the weird mapping issues on some songs and the weirdly non-responsive inputs just made the game really unfun to play, which is why I just stopped playing.
5:20 “so in the future we’ll be getting a lot more” Well…
8 months later, still nothing. we're gonna be getting gta6 before this game comes out probably
Well?
What I like about this analysis is that, unlike the rhythm game tryhards, he explains the issues with the game without being salty as shit. Every time I heard some criticism from other comments or videos, it's riddled with passive-aggressiveness. "There's nothing special about the game" or "It's for skilless newbies", basically skirting around the fact that they're mad as fuck that it got popular over their favourites. Turns out people respond well to presentation, context and characters. I love DDR, but most releases are like a sports game, an updated roster with a few UI changes. Even then, some sports games give you a story mode.
I felt this
@oozeman yt this gets said about EVERYTHING so I couldn't care less
@oozeman yt tricky mod
@oozeman yt smoke em out struggle/vs. Garcello
@oozeman yt saltys sunday night
Cool, now send these modders to go fix the terrible Beat Saber maps.
That modding community for Beat Saber has done a good job doing that
They’ve gotten a bit better with OST 4.
i heard there's ahuge beat saber fnf pack coming that's really good, actually
Most if not all beat saber maps i play are good though? Am i missing something?
@@starblast-2246 you'll get it once you play community made maps. there's also a video out there of patterns creators should avoid, and the main osts are filled with them. double directionals are especially common and egregious.
There’s something I love about how the SiIvaGunner team made a tool for the channel’s stupid silly meme videos that is being used to massively improve the game, here’s hoping we get a Grand Dad fight in the full release
My take on how the FNF charting meta is going (and how awful the charting was at the start) comes down to the fact that they're a new community going at it fresh without prior experience. In stepmania for instance, not only do we have a decade of charting experience to draw on for making high quality charts, but we also have a further decade of an official game charts that made all the same early mistakes that FNF has, so we already know what things aren't fun. Whereas with FNF, they have none of that prior experience, so they're essentially forced to make all the mistakes that we had made and learned from over a decade ago. And when some people who's only experience is FNF will turn around and say "this chart is great/fun/the best" when a stepmania player could point out dozens of mistakes and charting issues that makes it unfun, they haven't had the innovation of better or more fun charting, and when they play the newer charts alongside the old ones, they'll eventually start to pick up on what makes the new one better, what makes the old one worse, and what they can do going forward to improve their charting. I'm glad to see both the mod base and the official game are fixing some of the technical issues that were absolutely deal breakers to most rhythm gamers, and I look forward to seeing how this goes in future. (Oh and crazy high scroll speeds make a chart more difficult, but not more fun, literally any other mod would be more fun than high scroll speed but that's just the NotITG player in me talking where barely seeing notes under 3 layers of glsl, confusion offset and column swaps is fun)
legit every mod has double or triple jacks, no stairs, or long notes cuz of ballistic
@@rail5695 And 10 years ago every chart for stepmania had double steps and ambiguous footing. They'll learn eventually.
As a Space Channel 5 fan, I immediately noticed the latency issue because I was so familiar with it, but just as SC5, I still loved the game for the same reasons: the music is catchy, there's ton of personality, the whole game is a spectacle
holy shit a sc5 fan im so glad im not the only one LOL
"I don't want to play footage of a mod that I consider to have bad charting, that seems mean" You can just show Midfight Masses, it's okay
yes
That’s exactly what I was thinking!
I'm completely clueless on that mod, are the charts THAT bad?
Its sad because the songs in this mod are really good, but the chart is so trash that i downloaded the songs on osu, where the chart is actually cool.
I don't know if my opinion is biased from seeing you comment or not, but seeing that mod charting makes me kinda upset.
Yo it's super dope that you're working on peppered it's been my most anticipated mod since I heard of it. I honestly never knew you were involved with the project at all.
FNF and Genshin Impact are actually kinda similar in the sense that it got a lot of people into a genre they wouldn't have gotten into if said game wasn't so easy to get into. However, the reaction between veterans and newcomers of the introduced mechanic are polar opposites. For example, Genshin's gacha system was hated by most newbie gacha players while it was neutrally or positively received by veterans of gacha games. Meanwhile, FNF's rhythm system was pretty well liked among newbie rhythm gamers and pretty hated among veterans of rhythm games.
the newbie's opinion of the game was swayed by their lack of knowledge, which is great for FNF but not great for GI. veterans of the games were able to draw a more nuanced opinion due to simply knowing more about the game, which was good for Genshin but bad for FNF. Personally, while i do have experience in Gacha and Rhythm games, I do NOT speak on behalf of all players of any genre. If you have experience in either field, please don't hesitate to correct anything I say. TLDR: being experienced in a field is able to produce a technically better opinion.
As soon as he started talking about bad charting the "Midfight masses" mod came to my mind
isn't overcharting its main big problem ruv having double notes for no reason being a good example
@@ConsarnitTokkori Not to mention the fact that the engine they made for that mod doesn't work half the time. First it didn't work with doubles, then notes just vanished.
Play stepmania.
@@myleg7012 is that a yes or no
@@myleg7012 it's probably like the april fools update or smth
Honestly, the major appeal of FNF over other rhythm games, for me personally, at least, has to do with the fact it has actual character [literal characters, in this case] and personality Edit: I should note this is mostly applicable to, as I like to call 'em, "shape" rhythm games, y'know, games whose gameplay boils down to "press button when shape in place," such as 4-keys like DDR or Stepmania, or something like Osu! Clarification is being made because I realize I was making the implication that games like PaRappa and Rhythm Heaven didn't have character/personality, which is extremely untrue and those games are wonderful and fantastic
May I offer you: Bang Dream it's an anime girl gacha game, but the rhythm game aspect of it is enjoyable enough on its own IMO. it's for mobile though, so that might not be your thing, but i find the characters to be really nicely developed and all. i think it does a great job with the main stories and giving the girls unique personalities
There are actually a lot of mobile rhythm games that have story like elements, Deemo, Cytus 2, Lanota, and my personal favorite, Arcaea.
It’s fun
dON'T LISTEN TO THEM Go for Project Sekai *wink* It's practically the same? Made by the same developer (only that Sega is involved, responsible of PD), both have groups and stories for them, the Gacha part is similar, the art style is different tho. If challenge is for you, then the charts difficulty can go up to "Master" Wich you unlock by having -10 MISS in a song on Expert. It practically RAINS gems, and events are constant so you don't play for the sake of it. It's fairly new considering it launched no less than 6 months ago. But the community Oh the community couldn't be BETTER. Friendly people ready to lend you a hand, the game being in Japanese?? Don't worry! There's a Discord server with translations for every bit of dialogue you could find! All in all, better than Bang Dream *comically extending you a hand as if it were a contract*
@@job-u6927 i think you could've said this without dissing bandori and my suggestion :) they both have strengths and weaknesses, and are all in all great games. both are worth a play.
Dude you are amazingly humble and positive. I agree pretty much 100% with everything you said when it comes to the community problems between vets and newbies. Keep creating your awesome content dude. Its refreshing each and every time.
*Looks left, looks right* *Breathes* “Stepmania, Eterna, Mania and Quaver are better then FNF” *Half of the internet comes chasing after me*
dont you worry, they'll be chasing after both of us lmao
I've been running for 5 months that's what I'm going at
Rhythm heaven best
it really is
do people seriously like FNF more than stepmania...?
"Why do you have to redownload fnf when you install a mod" beatsaber players:first time
I mean in Beat Saber you reinstall it once and then boom there’s every song you need in FNF’s case every mod has The Whole Game installed with it
@@thatoneguy9582 unless the modder went through the effort of getting rid of the rest of the game so you just download the engine and mod
@@thatoneguy9582 I think its a joke about how the beat saber devs constantly break compatibility and players are forced to manually downgrade because they refuse to just add an official way to play old versions.
with modloader it's literally just a single click
@@azrielsatan8693 that… explains a lot actually i didn’t know that it did that
Well, I feel like I've learned everything I need to about FNF now. I was kind of annoyed how it flooded a number of youtubers I watched, and I couldn't understand the hype, but it seems to please enough people, and I'll cut it some slack. I played DDR as a kid, so it's hard to just go to finger rhythm games, but I'm content to let people enjoy the game themselves.
As a fan of FNF, the game part is dogshit and I just like the newgrounds love letter as well as the music more than the actual gameplay.
This comment right here. You're literally the opposite of a fnf hater.
@@wourydiallo1445 which one? The reply above you or the comment?
@@shookengie370 the comment. Most poeple will be an ass to you simply because you like the game. And some didn't even played the game.
Ok thank you SO MUCH for making this video. I played FNF not too long after the hype started--I used to be hugely into stepmania as a kid, I love rhythm games, and I had a passing knowledge of NG characters, so I thought it looked really cool. The music was amazing, I breezed through the tutorial, pumped and ready, and then every other input was wrong. I'm not going to act like I'm a master at rhythm games, but I knew I wasn't as bad as the game was making me out to be. I was crushed, quit playing after like the first few songs, and ever since, just hearing about the game put a bad taste in my mouth. I thought I was just an asshole for not liking this game. I'm definitely going to try the new week 7 update and see if that fixes the issues--my computer isn't exactly a powerhouse, so that may have also contributed to why it never played right for me, but I have high hopes. Great video as always! I'm just so relieved that I'm not crazy for having a not-so-great experience the first time around so I had to gush for a bit, haha
I actually kinda like FNF, I think the songs are pretty cool. My issue was that it was EVERYWHERE, from kids talking about it, to thousands of YT videos someone making it onto my fyp, the ripoffs, and the really bad ads that would get spammed onto my phone. The rhythm part is okay, but the fact that I couldn’t seem to get away from it being everywhere really turned off my interest.
I'm not the only one?
There needs to be more games like Rhythm Doctor that actually rely on feeling rhythm instead of visual cues and multiple buttons prompts IDK, I just feel like rhythm games should be playable without looking at the screen
Rhythm heavan is a great one. The newer games are even possible to play blind
I do like rhythm doctor but I think the fact that it has very few visual cues limits the complexity of the rhythms. Some of the levels just require you to maintain a single beat for the whole song which can get pretty stale. I think games like the osu! standard gamemode shine because even though they are impossible without the visuals, paying attention to the rhythm will make the gameplay easier. You could turn off music and play the game purely mechanically but it would be much harder.
I get what you mean but that would tone down a games difficulty which is another fun aspect of rhythm games. More rhythm games definitely need to find a good balance of those though. I'd say Muse Dash gets it till you reach the 8-11 songs.
osu mania 1k
I mean the only way you can play Rhythm Games without looking at the Screen is entirely rely on the Charter Ability to make it as Accurate as possible to the Beat of the song that was playing. This on itself is literally Rare, sometimes it's off, sometimes the Chart had a Filler Note that unless you looking at the screen you will not know at all. Especially when we talking about Offset, oh dude, it still a long way to go.
Watching the entire video, it breaks down really nicely and neatly the initial issues FNF had with its design, and how the game's devs continue to improve it into week 7. I played a bit of it and also the Whitty mod and while the chords not registering properly were a bit of an issue, it was still an enjoyable experience and I can see how this is a good springboard for people starting out. The last point you made regarding the elitism issue is, unfortunately, highly prevalent and endemic to the rhythm game community. I can say with full confidence as a long-time IIDX (and other arcade rhythm games) player that once you get past a certain skill ceiling, it becomes a conscious effort to _not_ shit on people starting out simply because you feel as if you've "earned your stripes" (even though you're not even a topranker or anywhere close). There definitely needs to be a shift in culture in that regard.
Weeb
@@BitchChill couldn’t have said it better myself
@@BitchChill Like the pot calling the kettle black, also from a brief look at this dude's profile he's not a weeb but actually from at least some East Asian country if not Japan itself. Can't be a weeb if you're from there.
I play a lot of mobile rhythm games personally, and while some people are definitely show-offs (And why wouldn' they be, they did something difficult and want others to praise them) nobody was really acting too elitist or shitting on others for them not being on their level. On the contrary, it's usually pretty wholesome and encouraging. Maybe I'm just not in those hyper competitive communities like Osu and SDVX, but a fair few guys are really chill and helpful if you ask them for advice.
@@Raptor-tooth Still one
Thank you for the quick update on what the game is, I've never heard of it prior to this video.
i saw the entire video, and i gotta thank you for this one, as a player of the osu mania world cup 2018, it makes me really happy to see someone bringing light to this type of problems we got with the comunity, i get that it's hard for them because they've never played anything else other than FNF, but i gotta say, you really hit the nail with this one, i have nothing to complain about your video and everything you said is true, that being said, i wanted to share an opinion about FNF players and who should play FNF, if you are a casual gamer and you like FNF, play it, and dont listen to others if they say that the game is bad, if you like it do your own thing, but dont argue to other more experienced players about dificulty or the charting of other maps if you dont really know what you are saying, also, dont argue who is the best player in FNF, because very often, those called "pro FNF players" are actually decent players or even good players, but not even close to being pro, if you really want to see the best VSRG players (vertical scrolling rhythm games), go check out osu mania, etterna or quaver, there you'll really find the best players in the world, not just clickbait fake pros, and to sum this up, if you want to enter the vsrg community, i would consider that you play FNF first because it's way better than the other ones to play casually, because of the pain in the ass that other more serious VSRGs are to actually set up correctly, that being said, if you've been playing FNF for a long time and you want to get more serious about it or just get better in the game, i would really recommend you start playing the serious bunch of VSRG, because thats the only way to get to improve fast and even get to pro level in these games, with all being said, i really hope FNF gets thouse things fixed, and even if it doesnt become as hard as other VSRG, i would like FNF to become the first VSRG of the newcomers into these types of rhythm games because it really haves a lot of potential for that. I hope this comment is informative for everyone that reads it as that was the intention, sry for bed england (im for spain), and for the tech rules guy up there, if you need some vsrg pro info for some new video you want to do or something like that, you can hit me up whenever you want, im already on your discord :)
I want a video where you preach the benefits of open source for 30 minutes
That makes two of us, or I guess three since Tech himself stopped himself from doing it
hell yeah, all tech rules content is good content
@@RadikAlice 5 actually
Richard Stallman will be summoned during the video
@Max yes, but only to get in a fistfight with eric raymond over free software vs open source
The veterans vs fnf players is kind of like someone finding a lynel in breath of the wild hard and than someone says bro that's easy try beating a souls game, like not everyone has the same skill, some people will find fnf actually hard and won't be able to beat the tougher mods while veterans blow through them
Well, i was able to find both cases where the fnf community is bad and the rhythm game community is bad. Ive seen multiple times fnf kids who have that mindset where they think every 4k rhythm game is instantly related to fnf; and since there’s so many of them, its annoying. Thats the problem of the fnf community. The problem of the rhythm game community against fnf kiddies is that some people will go as far as to harass fnf players and not teach them or something.
Play a real sheen megumi sentai game
@@joshki1962 Sadly that's basically what happens when children show interest in games they like and don't understand, they just get harassed and made fun of instead of people teaching them
@@Mngalahad on god that what it boils down to. Some of these higher skilled guys just need to let people have their fun lol
Lynels are hard when you first encounter them
It's really quite annoying when people complain about it being too easy, there's already a ton of super hard rhythm games, it's fine for there to be more casual ones
This was my first rhythm game and I'm 30. I don't follow the communities, but I saw this game quickly played through it didn't know about mods now I mostly play Arcaea. I stink at it, but continue to get better. When the charting is right you get really into it your head bobs you feel like you're making music, when its off it feels like you are hitting buttons as fast as possible while music plays. The illusion is so easily shattered but feels great when it works
anti-mash is legit one of my biggest issues. As an avid Taiko player, freestyling is big in making the game as fun as it is. Also Spookeez is terrible, it is so off
taiko players freestyling 🤝 osu players cursordancing
Sounds like you don't actually wanna play a rhythm game
@@lenathemaid difference between competative and casual games, also replying to a 2 year old comment fr??
@@lenathemaid Ghost hitting is a very widespread technique among many rhythm game communities, used to keep rhythm in songs with intermittent breaks or strange rhythms. It's not unreasonable to have issues with anti-mash systems that outright remove the ability to ghost hit, especially since mashing can be punished by just making a good input reader and judgement system
@@christophobia6415 that technique needs to be gone
you got a problem when the roblox versions got a better input system that the actual game, lmfao
fucking hellacious icon btw
the... what version???
@@yamforayam4709 yep, you heard it right, the roblox versions. Ik it sounds like a joke, but they unironiclly got a better input system than the actual fnf
@@rubenvp3 because roblox took what fnf had and used better engines because they have more time BECAUSE they aren't doing actual art, coding, music, etc. But none are really bad.
that explains why getting Sicks!!'s in funky Friday is so much easier
Wow! Awesome! Here is quick story- I got to play fnf for about 2 months before my laptop died. Is my fault, it's ok. Anyway now I wait for new one and I look forward to checking out the project you have been working on when I do! Looks fantastic!
I just learned about FnF from Smooth Mcgroove recently, and saw your video and was interested! Great job :)
as you kinda said near the end, this game has brought a lot of attention to other games, One of which is rhythm heaven. the fact that this game is known again is amazing, but the downside is that it’s now that “game that inspired fnf”
fnfnis inspired off of ddr
being a rhythm heaven fan right now sure is something
@@charliepuppy. And rhythm heaven, Search up Rhythm Heaven Girl, its the inspiration for GF
@@astronights Rythym heaven is way better than fnf
@@AdvancedGamingYT Indeed
Oh wow as a big rhythm gamer... This is a very interesting thing to see
same, 8 years of casual stepmania play. Tried the game out, it was alright. I do suggest Tricky's mod, the charting is fun.
@@Larry. Sadly i dont know many mods that have good mapping. Tricky mod does tho, it’s pretty good.
Joshki19 Smoke em out Struggle has good charting IMO, I can play a few parts blind already from just remembering which arrows I need and listening. And I am VERY bad at rhythm games
@@joshki1962 matt is pretty fun to play
@@sushifromasia No
My only problem with FNF is the heavily edgy mood of most of the mods, which generally have a angy powerful character that get angrier and fucks up the fabric of reality for some damn reason. That began with the whitty mod i believe. I only dislike the modding scene due to that, but the vanilla game itself seems cool. And dont forget, enjoy what ya enjoy, no matter what some name and picture online tells you. Edit: Though I admit that the whitty mod author did an awesome job at fixing problems of the base game and create a well made version of the engine to allow modding with greater ease.
I disagree with you. I mean, don't you realise that how video games bosses phases kinda works? Honestly, I personnally think i rather a week with a interresting story with good challenge and some phases called "transformation" than just a week with 3 song in it and that it. (I still enjoy the original game) For example: Don't tell me than you will just enjoy a mod like, Agoti or Tabi i dunno, only if they remove the "transformation" part. I respect your opinion but i feel than reasons like that are kinda stupid. No hate tho.
@@ssseee3ds463 it's only done because of Senpai from week six it has nothing to do with bosses getting angrier and angrier wdym?
@@CorporalTailsDude not just that lmao
@@ssseee3ds463 According to the mod over looks themselves it doesn't seem any other way. I'd say whitty was the only one who seemed that way but every mod afterward is a different story
i'd love to see how other consoles were hacked like you did with 3DS. If there's not too much to say in regards to some of consoles, it would be great to have one video about all Sony/Microsoft consoles.
I think you hit the nail right on the head with your last few points about the community discourse. FNF really was/is never meant to be the "hardcore" rhythm game, there are plenty of other VSRGs out there that fill that niche and are DESIGNED to allow a high skill ceiling. And honestly...that's perfectly fine. I only really played it when it first started getting popular, and had similar initial reactions. You had to look past the flaws in the rhythm game part of it to really understand how much charm the rest of it has. The art and animation work is amazing, the music is so stylish, it's just an awesome piece of content. It doesn't matter that it's "another 4k copy" because its focus was on the presentation of everything with a touch of rhythm game. Gatekeeping is a disease! Great vid! These technical analyses of games are always super interesting to watch
Exactly
Gatekeeping isn't a disease, it's necessary to protect the things you enjoy from bad influences. Look at DnD, Orcs are racist. (somehow) Drows are bad, can't have those. Etc.
@@sora8711 The gatekeeping I'm talking about is when the veteran players actively push away new players because "they won't understand it" or "they won't ever be good at the game". It's not only limited to rhythm games, pretty much every genre with a high skill ceiling suffers from this type of toxicity. No one ever starts off skilled at something, so you shouldn't push people away just because they're new. You need the new players to grow the community, otherwise the game will just die out as less and less people play it. The DnD example sounds more like a difference of opinions, not necessarily pushing new players away from the game thinking all they'll do is ruin it.
@@PizzaLovers007 well see here's the thing even if the game's art, music and overall presentation are very charming, it's still a rhythm game at heart. if stepmania had better accuracy and it was made in 2001, theres no reason why FNF shouldn't. they literally could have taken the stepmania source code and just retool it for the gameplay style FNF was going for, then slap everything else on and call it a day. art, music, and aesthetic doesn't make a game. GAMEPLAY makes a game. if the gameplay is lacking, the game is lacking. if the gameplay is shit, the game is shit. art, nice music and a great presentation cant save you from that. if someone gave you an animated music video and told you it was a video game, im sure you wouldnt believe them. dont do the same for fnf. expect more from these developers. they're listening loud and clear.
besides, adding in more hardcore friendly mechanics wouldn't disssuade the casual players of the game, infact it would help them since the timing would be far superior and inputs wouldnt be dropping all the time.
idk why but microsoft edge notified me about this despite not having my youtube signed in on it. Thanks edge!
I like how this video's sponsor is privacy, yet we have no privacy.
Microsoft Spyware
@@augustogallo3211 Edge has less tracking than chrome even though it's the same engine etc. Google released a smeer article where they incorrectly set up the privacy options of edge while enabling all of them on Chrome to do a comparison which is probs why you've heard it before. Regardless notifications work differently and works the same on Chrome and other browsers. Essentially being logged in is not a requirement because when you set up the notifications it's like a direct communication from the site to your browser and as such your login is known from that time.
@@TheBluePhoenix008 I myself disabled Edge, Cortana and all that garbage. Use Brave Browser and Swisscows
@@toms2oo8 i didn't start a browser war
The base game’s ability to handle note presses is extremely frustrating so that’s why I use Psych Engine. Even though it’s ghost notes fail to function sometimes. It’s still a lot better than the base game’s notes
i had no idea you were working on sssp im so hyped for it
“There are a whole bunch of familiar faces” *zone tan in full view in the background*
She has clothes on surprisingly
@@Coff33Addict Not For Long
this is the first time i actually noticed zone-tan because i don't play the game and all the "fnf facts" video obviously don't point out her cameo, i had to double take
When
@@bobsawyer4608 rewatching the video right now actually, I’ll timestamp it
The one criticism I have, although it's more of a correction: a lot of those harder rhythm games actually do have a story now. Cytus II has a massive story. Arcaea has a story, but it isn't as fleshed out as Cytus II, the same could be said for VOEZ. But yeah, I will admit elitism is a big thing that affected my opinion of FNF. I'll probably give it a try, but I've never been a big fan of 4K rhythm games as it is.
Well it does have a story and plot, but its in development anyway, so don't expect much
Try the roblox version it’s multiplayer and single player with easy songs and hard songs, you can also change the arrow speed and size
dnc do not care
As much as I love Cytus II, it is not that hard. I agree it has a fantastic story that shpuld be fully fleshed out into a series or something.
heck, even phigros has some lore on it, although it told on big text dumps.... oh even dj max has some minor storys told through its mvs
The thing about FNF is how much I enjoy the content itself. I love the art style, and I like listening to the songs and seeing what the community makes. But playing it as a rhythm game, I don’t share those same feelings. But FNF holds a lot of potential as the community is pretty decent.
I agree with you
The input system is why I, a somewhat experienced osu! player, haven't spent much time in fnf. My friend showed it to me, I said it's cool and all, but huge latency and overall unresponsiveness always been a critical aspect for me, so I didn't play much. Like since I got my 144hz monitor I feel 60hz like it's lagging.