Thanks to Czepeku for sponsoring today's video!
Subscribe on Patreon: / czepeku
► How to have a great Session Zero: • Do THIS before startin...
► INDEX
0:00 what's the point of DMing?
2:00 the players
4:30 the map dragon
5:50 investment
8:55 managing expectations
11:50 conclusion
Music from Epidemic Sound
Need music for your videos or streams? Here's my referral link: www.epidemicsound.com/referra...
► FIND ME ONLINE:
ginnydi.com
/ ginnydi
/ itsginnydi
/ itsginnydi
/ itsginnydi
The real point of DMing is to increase my capacity to procrastinate planning.
This is the true answer
Day of session this week I made a new world map with a frickin mercator projection, a nice battlemap, a new party favorite NPC, and a ton of cool lore that somehow also required a ton of math. I keep saying I'm gonna get better at spreading out my prep and instead I just just keep getting better and better at cramming 😭
I actually had to cut our last session short because I had procrastinated until the DAY OF the session. I could see the disappointment on my players' faces, and I felt like shit. Not doing that again. I'm currently still 11 days out from our next session, and I'm having SO MUCH FUN prepping! This is the way, folks. You can be so much more creative, and add so much more depth to your scenarios when you aren't pressed for time.
That used to be me but I like to prep now although 😆
Wait... You plan?
Session Zero is important to find the right types of players for different types of games.
YES!!! I’m “ blessed” to have 3 fun players . I told them it’s there world and they really want to travel it. I need yo break it down for you. A loxodon circle of the spores druid. A change Ling blood hunter order of the lycan, and a sharkin. Yes a sharkin. I told them if you can find a character break down out there you can run um. All this online as I’m a state away. Lol I even plan on each player being th main. Character. From the sea to the fry wild to material plane hopping we ate gonna go there. Btws. The loxodon is the only one in the world. He was pulled there after zuggtomy attacked ravnica and part of the counter attack was a enormous rift in reality breaking through the astral goo between material plane worlds. This is my first time playing in 35 years and I decided to do to most broke ass shit lol I’m insane!!! Having the most fun!! Do a session zero or your hero’s might be zeros.
We need to kill the concept that the session zero is the solution to all problems forever. They are very helpful. Problems can and will arise that session zero can't cover.
@@jamesnought7489 re-session zero. Lol
Session zero is one piece of the puzzle!! I think it's super important to remember, though, that conducting a great session zero does not magically make everyone who attends that session zero into the "right" players. That's why I specified that part of successfully communicating expectations is being willing to recognize if you've chosen players who are not a good fit!
Came down here to say this. I'm running a Session Zero tonight, specifically to avoid what OP was asking about.
"To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of their dice."
Almost Pratchett? :)
Perfect.
"vimin"
This is the way.
@@streganona5544Conan the Barbarian I believe
The dinner and drinks comparison was actually surprisingly helpful for me to visualize the concept in my head lmao
Mine as well.
this was my experience in my first game. No one was invested, and I was criticized for "not making the game more fun". The problem was no one knew what they wanted, they just knew I wasn't giving it to them. It felt like I was putting on a show, not playing a game. I went through 2 dnd groups before finally gelling with my third. Even when first playing with my current group, I had to learn that there is a difference between investing and hardcore roleplaying. I finally feel like I'm with a group that really appreciates what I do for them, and it makes a world of difference.
Holy smokes! I totally understand this feeling! It can be so difficult to even understand what you "want" in a game. It took me a pretty long time. I found myself with a lot of "roll-players" when I really wanted to "roleplay". So, now that I know this, I can better find people more suited to my gaming style.
First off, I'm glad you're with a much better group. The first group sounds like they needed to be left in the dust---most players, in my experience, give first time GMs a lot of slack, or at least they should. As for hardcore role playing, everyone has different comfort levels with that one--the DM needs to be a little flexible when it comes to this and meet players where they are at. Many folks aren't comfortable play-acting role play--unless you have some theater people in your group.
@@alexabel8010 Yeah, 5E D&D tends to be terrible for that, since it has such a large player base with varied interests, there's a significant chance you get a group whose preferences just don't align with yours. 5E D&D is in many ways the RPG without a true identity, because it tries to be many things to different people. This makes it a game that brings a lot of different players together but not always for the better.
Glad to hear you've found a group that appreciates your work!! I think that's a key piece of the puzzle: your party doesn't have to be *perfect* but you do have to feel like the compromises you make don't ruin your enjoyment of the game... and the positive feedback certainly helps too 🥰
What's worse is players who say they want X, but they won't actually engage in it when you do it. Sandboxes are the worst for this. A lot of players say they want it, but when they get it decision paralysis sets in.
In the game I’m currently playing, I gave my character the noble background and told the DM that the family’s rank was up to him and I’d flesh out her backstory and family history accordingly. We get to Session Zero and I quickly notice that my character’s family name is now on the DM’s world map as one of the major kingdoms on the continent. I was abruptly put in charge of a rather noteworthy chunk of the world building, probably because I’d told him ahead of time that I have a tendency to write too much for my characters and he decided to capitalize on that. Needless to say, I am very invested in this current game.
This! I love this experience as a player. It's surprising but really rewarding when you get to flesh out elements of the world that your character inhabits and be tied directly into plot-relevant goings-on in the game by virtue of it. In the D&D campaign I joined a few months ago, I suggested based on my character's background that perhaps I used to work in the scriptorium of a temple to the god of knowledge, and that my mother was one of the priestesses there. The DM turned that into my family being the temple keepers and well-known members of the community who were close to many of the other temple keepers to other gods (who happen to be major NPCs/quest-givers). Instant investment in the game world, connection to NPCs, reasons to accept the call to adventure, etc.
I had something like this happen. A few sessions in the DM said basically "I need more of a plot for this, I don't know where to go." I told him here's what my character is looking for and hoping to accomplish. Here are some connections we might have asking the party (in particular, almost everyone had a connection to either they fey wild or shadow fell). We were able to put some stuff together.
I couldn't answer this question myself for a while, but eventually I found out that I really enjoy watching the player characters grow and experience new things. A player completing their personal quest, or finding that long-lost relative is just... *chefs kiss*
Yes!! I think this would have to be my honest answer too. Getting to see my party members have meaningful experiences while engaging with the world and characters I've created is the best feeling.
Between this video and Matt Colville talking about how short adventures are the way to go over long campaigns... Man I wish I'd seen these before I built out my last game. Thank you for this, Ginny! You make my games better.
Literally every week when I sit down to prep, I put on Matt Colville videos in the background. He reminds me that DND is supposed to be fun, and if I let my anxiety drive, that is not the direction I end up going 😅
I do long campaigns, but I leave a lot of flexibility in the world and story and do not flesh them out very far in advance. This allows me to be responsive to player input and direction while still presenting something of epic scope.
Matt's video on different types of players would help here I think. It sounds like they were more audience members maybe with a splash of murder hobo and alot of DMs expect all players to be very active and I have found it isnt the case and when I accepted that my games got better
@@rikidog2682 Same! Again and again. His videos are a gold mine, and really takes you back into what's important instead of getting lost inside your own head and expectations.
*me over here with my 60+ sessions over two years and my players salivating for more* Uhm...hi? I don't know what happened, but it's working?
The point of DMing - there will be a game. My sessions would drop to about 20% of what they are currently if I didn't DM.
Right there with you. When it started for me, it was either, "I be the DM, or there's no game at all."
Loved the metaphors to other activities! That's how it is in my experience. I'm lucky that a couple of my best friends really enjoy RPGs, but not all of them do. And different styles, more light and comedic vs more crunchy or dramatic, just appeal to people differently so it's natural for the group to shift a bit depending on the game/campaign.
One of the best campaigns I ever played in was a world where the DM created a port town and added some basic features. But then we players got to add our homes, bases of operation, and local features important to our characters. During the entire campaign we never ventured more than 100 miles from "our town". It was kind of an expanded "Keep on the Borderlands" type campaign. But we were invested in it. We owned businesses. We had to deal with pirates, bandits, corrupted grave sites and tombs, and eventually an invading orc army.
Oof. I felt this one. I have a good friend who was so excited to run a 5e game for us with her own bespoke world. Spent months writing out backgrounds, interweaved plot points, fleshed out NPCs, and a Big Mystery. It was amazing....and it tanked in three sessions because our group just doesn't do that. We roleplay but it's more Monty Python than Royal Shakespeare Company. She wanted the latter.
Seems like campaigns generally last 1d4 sessions before it falls apart.
I dunno. I feel like silly characters have a place, even in a serious setting. Though Session Zero is a great time to talk about what sort of mood you want the campaign to have. Like, "Are we expecting Lord of the Rings or Looney Tunes?"
A good dm makes the game about the players. Not the other way around.
@@chrisg8989 But sometimes the DM is just excited about a concept, and I find that an excited DM is the best kind of DM. It's up to the players to decide if they're excited for the concept as well. Of course, the DM has to communicate the type of campaign they'd like to run well beforehand.
@chrisg8989 but good players also interact with what the dm presents to them, if the players just go completely off roads or start to trample the world (not saying that happened here) or if the interests of the group and the dm just clash, it stops being fun to dm too, its about cooperation sometimes it makes more sense to play in different groups that provide a better fit for the games everyone wants to play
One thing to bear in mind as a DM, is that you may have spent weeks or even months preparing the setting for a new campaign, while, apart from may be an overview before the campaign and maybe during session zero, the first session will be the first time they get to interact with the world, so it could take them a few sessions to get the feel for the setting and warm up to it. Also, as Ginny says, as DM, you need to set expectations and the feel for the campaign before hand, and if you do not know already, what the players expectations are.
Yep! I've seen games struggle to get off the ground because the DM is just too excited to share all the complicated lore they've created. You may have players that really want to become invested in your world but feel overwhelmed with the amount of knowledge you're providing them with. You're so right that you need to 'warm them up' and help them experience the world manageable chunks. It's like trying to read a book and the first page is just an info dump - you're going to put that thing down pretty fast!
100%. It's easy to blame players and some of it is warrented, but it's also a little silly to expect people to be as enthusiastic a you as something that you put YOUR heart and soul into. The biggest thing I learned by being a player myself for a bit is that staying totally engaged all the time is... pretty tough, actually.
My favorite bit of advice for involving players in the creation of the dnd campaign world is to make their back stories the main story of the game. I like coming up with a setting that sparks their imagination and then getting together with them in order to create their individual stories that will weave together. Sure the stories are usually clunky and a bit soap opera-y. But when the evil king is the fighter's long lost brother that he hasn't seen in decades it's immediately more interesting than it just being an evil king
I'd add to that, that in my experience of 10 years+ Dming, I noticed, that clunkyness and "convenient relations" are totally fine 90% of the time. There is no audience, that can point out your plotholes. The only audience are your players and they WANT the BBEG to be their long lost brother.
Hey ginny I’m new to dnd and you have been so helpful. Thank you 🙏
So glad to hear that!! Hope you're enjoying it so far 🥰
YES! This is something I've run into. I run a Ravenloft (Curse of Strahd) campaign for two different groups. Group A. are experienced RPG'ers , most of whom I've known for over thirty years. They love roleplay and emergent play, but also love slaying monsters, collecting magic items, etc. Group B. are most inexperienced with tabletop RPGs (for the most part) and have trouble, or seem to have little interest in roleplaying (one player even ROLLS A DIE to have his character make decisions), and rarely "engage" with the world other than to fight things, run from things, or fuck with stuff (i.e. "pranks" and goofy behavior doesn't really fit the tone of what's happening in game in that moment). It's frustrating, but I do think it has a lot to do with both experience with tabletop rpgs (which are very much not passive), and MORE experience with videogame rpgs (which are a more passive entertainment form). PS - During session zero and session 1, I tried to get the players in group B. to flesh out their characters backstories but barely got anything from them. Ten sessions in, they could barely even remember what they DID come up with, lol. They just have little to no interest in having their CHARACTERS engage in the campaign and treat the game very much as a passive type of entertainment. They never discuss what their characters plans are, never talk in-game or out-of-game about what they've learned, what their goals are (short term or long term, even with prompting) who they've met, what they've seen, etc. It's like starting from scratch every session, sigh.
Oof it's tough having such a clear comparison between the two groups! I hope you're still enjoying your time with Group B though
@@GinnyDi Oh very much so! Been playing D&D/TTRPGs with those guys since the early 90s, back in the AD&D 2e days! Even running games for sub-par groups is experience to apply to future games; so it's a net win. 😀
I have a table like that, a bunch of friends with absolutely no experience with TTRPGs. I switched them over from 5e to Shadowdark to give them a more old school dungeon crawler with a lot less characters and a lot more poking dragons with a 10 foot pole. A lot less friction that way!
you should run Paranoia with the second group
I've found that it's very common for new players to default to mostly goofing around in their first campaigns, at least for the first 6 or so sessions. We forget that roleplaying games do not come natural to most people. Goofing around and doing the dumbest thing that comes to mind might not be very in-character or genre-fitting but I'd argue it's incredibly important to the development of a player. It's like a toddler that wants to pick everything up and throw it off the table. You have to test the limits of what you can and can't do and see the consequences so you can understand how to move in the fictional space the game creates. I've observed that the goofing mindset continues until a major "oh ****" moment occurs. An NPC they like gets majorly hurt or dies, their shenanigans burn a bridge that can't be rebuilt, they stumble their way into being the only one who can solve a huge problem, etc. Then the player may still goof off sometimes but will start to see the potential of the medium and experiment with other tones.
"Fighting and Looting" That is more than my players do. I often have them stand around and DO NOTHING. >Hey, the city is burning down, there is a giant portal with demons flooding in. A young girl in a very expensive dress and 4 knights with golden armor run out of the city, right past you. >I look at them. >okay, they keep running. One of the Knights asks you to come with them without stopping >I don't do them, I watch them leave and then look at the city >Civilians are being cut down and eaten by demons as the city burns down, with the portal above them not closing they had no chance. You can see the Magestower within the city >I watch it
Oh wow. They do know which game they're playing, right??
This sounds like their characters (and by extension, them) are psychopaths who enjoy watching the world burn.
i have one player like that. its fucking annoying, makes you wonder why they're there at all. Luckily everyone else picks up the slack for the most part.
A hooded figure comes up to the party and takes their gold and silver ... *doom music kicks in*
@@zix1257 one player like that is probably there because they like hanging out with the group or with another player in their particular. (I have made huge strides in getting my fiancé to actually role play, or at least back up my role playing actions). But if the whole group is like that, something weird or toxic is going on.
The hardest part I've run into is the 'kindness gap' where a player will sometimes prefer to not have fun and burn out than 'be mean' - and people often have a difficult time discerning the deference between rude and honest. I had a player tell me 'having fun' for 5 games, then heard 3rd party they were bored, addressed it with them (which initially was uncomfortable for them) then fixed it next session - but they had 4 'bad' games because of that communication gap.
A lot of people have a hard time saying "mean things" and end up being cruel through kindness. Constructive criticism is incredibly important, but can be very painful to give and recieve. (Especially to people we like and don't want to upset) The most recent time i had to give negative feedback was after our most recent session. Basically the bbeg was in custody and after giving his monologue used Eldridge blast on himself in the gap between being tied up and having antimagic cuffs put on. (Was originally a vitriolic sphere but that probably would have killed everyone) That entire scene felt incredibly railroaded/forced and ended the session early and was incredibly frustrating. The next day i told the DM to stop rushing through stuff when he's low on prep and just focus on moment by moment narration. Turns out he was already out of prep and was very unhappy with that scene too. Constructive criticism hurts to give but sometimes the person agrees with you and needs the reassurance to make changes. And sometimes they are immune to feeling bad about it and will gladly change to accommodate your request to whatever extent they can.
The best way to receive feedback is to explicitly ask for it. I've found that making a general question like "Did you guys enjoy the game?" will always bring an "Oh, yeah" from everyone. Nobody wants to be mean and it's a too broad question. Asking about specific things like "what do you think I can improve for the next game?", "are you enjoying this thing / story / rule?" or simply what they want to do next will give you a better understanding of what's going on.
This was eye opening, because I've always thought providing content was the GMs primary function. I did not consider that there were things both GMs and players could do to help one another make the experience better outside of session zeroes. Thank you for making a great series of videos that make me think!
I think that's been a historical problem that makes DMing feel like a LOT of hard work. I love giving my players responsibility to help keep them engaged but also lighten my workload!!
@@GinnyDi: A recent example in my campaign: The party ran into some hunters in search of a legendary beast (The Dune that Walks) as part of a periodic, ritual hunt important to their culture. This would entail them having some ritualistic things like formal greetings and whatnot. Rather than come up with some wording myself, I told a player who plays a gnome who comes from an archive of knowledge that his character would have heard of these Hunters and their ritual greeting and invited the player to come up with the wording. He did a great job coming up with something that I probably wouldn't have thought of while still incorporating my world-building. The fun kicker is that this character isn't always as competent as he thinks he is, so the player also suggested ways in which his character might botch the greeting, which of course was a nice role-play opportunity.
Know your party. Reward all engagement with plot hooks. Solicit feedback after every session. I prefer to do so obliquely, for instance, asking my players in one-on-one text messages what they though of another player's actions. This can easily lead to honest feedback. Last, but not least, improv, improv and improv. When a funny idea comes along, justify it and put it in the actual plot.
Players building the world themselves is one of the best parts of being a DM; when new players suddenly do it's tremendously affirming, especially when it's different to what you've written.
I have a great table, and generally, we don't have any issues. But I've recently been dealing with insecurities about my GMing, which makes me panic and try to take control of everything, which is obviously not fun for the players, making the situation worse, and a downward spiral begins. What I'm trying to say is, I kinda needed this video right now. Thank you.
Have you communicated this with your players? Many people run into problems with feeling like they aren't doing as well as they could be while DMing. Though I can attest to the fact that it's very difficult: Talk to your players and trust that they tell you the truth. If they say you're doing great, great! If they say you could be doing better, ask for constructive criticism and don't take cheap shots to heart. It may even help in some cases to take a little break from DMing, perhaps have someone else take over for a bit, to realign with what you yourself enjoy about D&D. None of us are perfect, I certainly am not, but we do tend to over-analyze our flaws, while I'm certain you've been providing your party with much mirth and merriment even if you have trouble believing so at the moment!
@@marcelmittendorf833 You know, reading this reply, my initial reaction was that I'm constantly talking to my players, trying to get constructive criticism from them, wondering what works and what doesn't what needs improvement, and what worked really well. I'll admit, I'm not getting a lot from them on that front, other than "It was a fun session" sentiments. But the one thing I haven't talked to them about is my creeping insecurities.
@@nomennescio1737 In my experience, talking about my insecurities was the only way I could actually get over them. The first time, after 2 and a half years DMing, that I came out of a session thinking "Wow, I had fun, everyone seemed to have fun, that was great" was... transcendent. Unfortunately getting there was not easy at all. I sincerely hope you find a way beyond those insecurities, but knowing you have them is the first step. Voicing them, even here in the wild expanse of the internet, is a strong move in the right direction. At least it was for me, I am not a trained... anything.
@@nomennescio1737: It can be tough. In my experience, people aren't often very good at providing explicit cues as to who you're doing. And the problem with asking them for feedback is that it runs the risk of being contrived at that point, and not really sincere feedback. So you either have to think about ways you can do that without making them feel bad for criticizing (e.g. focus on what they feel is working, not on what they feel is not), or watch for the less explicit cues. When you elicit an emotional reaction to some development, that's always a great cue. Engagement and banter is another.
@@nomennescio17371 thing you can do is end a session by asking the players what they liked AND what they didn’t like. U can also do the whole, everyone give me 1 thing u liked and 1 thing you didn’t. I honestly wasn’t sure how they were taking being the honor guard during a wedding last session, where I kinda just skipped through the wedding ceremony itself, skipped the speeches at the reception, things of this nature. Probably saved myself a sore throat from talking continuously for an hour or more (and all the prep work I didn’t have to do!). They loved. Kept the game moving. But one of my players did mention that a GM he knows would totally have done the entire wedding. Which is realistic..but too much, for me and my players. But maybe for some groups, this is what they would enjoy. Admittedly, this method isn’t 100% foolproof for insecurities. Honestly, I think I feel more insecure when they DON’T tell me something they don’t like. But ask for specifics. Maybe you introduced a new mechanic, or a rarely used mechanic. Ask them specifically on that. Stress that their honesty is the best way for you to evolve into a better GM for them. Btw, many important things did happen with the PCs, just not during those big moments for the bride and groom.
Here to confirm that I don't post about my two campaigns which run absolutely great. I am way too busy prepping great content for players who actually care and are there for the same reasons as me. I already feel like bragging about it now so I wouldn't post. But we exist! Finding the right people takes patience, luck and as you said good communication about what you want.
Same here! I'm a player, but my room mate is GM and we have been playing the same campaing for 2 years, having small spin-offs and prequels sessions and stuff to flesh out a universe that we all build together. Wouldnt dream of changing my group.
I really agree with your point on world building with your players. I'm a huge fan of doing this. Some of my favorite tactics are to have my players come up with how their characters have interacted with places or events in the past and share it as an impromptu scene or story. For instance: "The last time one of you visited this town you got into a bad situation in the market. Who would like to share?" I try not to single out players since it sucks to be put on the spot and I try to leave the prompts fairly open. Maybe the rogue got caught stealing, maybe the barbarian got swindled by a snake oil salesman or maybe something happened to a character that lets them explore their character a bit. Maybe the cleric found their faith through this bad situation, maybe the warlock saw the love of their life with someone else and decided to bury their pain in their occult studies. Maybe the paladin lost her temper and trashed someone's shop, giving her something she feels guilty about. These are all opportunities to build up their characters and the world. The players remember the market where the bard got mugged and I now have a group of thieves that I can put into encounters, my market also now is dangerous to travel through at night. You just have to listen to what your players tell you and build off of it. "Yes and" the heck out of it. This works for traveling as well: "Two of you encounter something unusual while away from the group, you don't think the others will believe it but you're pretty sure you both saw it. Who would like to share?" This gives players a chance to roleplay to convince the others that they saw something wild or to be skeptical. Most importantly, it gives me as the DM something mysterious that two of the players have a reason to go after for future plot hooks. If the scene isn't great, that's fine. Not every scene will be a winner and you just move on to the next bit. But the more I've done this the more my players jump in and get creative. It takes some guts to take your hands off the wheel but it's a lot of fun when your players get to drive for a bit.
I've had issues - mostly with inexperienced players - of players not really understanding that the DM is there to play and have fun too, and they're not just there to enable everyone else's fun. I've had a few campaigns fizzle out this way, but once I found a reciprocating group everything became much more enjoyable.
Yep!! Unless you're being paid to DM, it's as much about you having fun as anyone else 🙌🙌
Corollary: If you are a player and love what your DM is doing: Please tell them! Repeatedly! Speaking of which, you always give great advice on your videos Ginny, and I always enjoy watching them :) And your music videos are the best. I had both of my children singing your TPK song at Christmas this year.
I use the "Start/Stop/Continue" method with my players: "What should we start doing that we aren't doing yet?" / "What are we doing that needs to stop?" / "What works that we need to continue doing?"
As someone that was forced to DM or not play at all you are one of the most helpful people to help me learn what the heck to do and how to do it. Any tips for a baby silver dragon your party may have um adopted? Thank you so much for all your hard work and quality!
Ooh that's fun! I think its worth looking at the Drakewarden Ranger subclass to get some ideas of how the dragon could behave and scale (heh) in game
@@GinnyDi Thank you so much I will. Right now my son's Human monk is carrying the newborn on his back in a sling as we had not idea lol
My solution is a difficult non-combat encounter they can realistically fail: "You enter the grounds of the villa, and see guests entering inside, their invitations checked by a steward. There is a lot of armed guards around, as you suspected from intel. A direct confrontation is a likely TPK. The necklace will go on auction later in the evening, according to the schedule given. Good luck." Essentially - replace the direct game mechanics (spell slots, action economy) by different game mechanics (using inventory / tools / utility spells / etc.) to achieve a (difficult) objective, rather than getting rid of the mechanics. Most players (IME) will adapt and will have even more fun. The downside is that, if any future encounter isn't as engaging, they'll be disappointed (also from experience).
Not all your friends are dnd friends. Best pointy hat quote ever
Lemme get my bubble pipe, I didn't know we were doing TTRPG philosophy over here.
This video makes me appreciate both the tables I play with, one as a player, and one as DM. Both groups are invested in the stories and worlds, and want to play the content the DM has. My players, when asked, told me they want to play what I provide for them, which is a homebrew campaign. The other table is a module with an awesome DM and made it pretty clear what the expectations are.
You have a good point. I was once in a game where I absolutely did not agree with the premise for why the group had assembled together. I spent the rest of the campaign derisively discounting the "established fact that everyone knows" to be a rumor created by a crackpot or one of the villains out in the world. This eventually evolved from grumbling on my part to being gleefully disruptive. However, for the person running the campaign who had sprung the premise on us, it became increasingly aggravating. The whole situation could've been avoided if he had floated the idea ahead of time. I would've asked "are you serious? This is why we're working together?" Upon learning that the answer to both questions was "yes," I would've said "No thanks. Not my cup of tea" and saved everyone time & the trouble of trying to convince my character that the "known fact" had really happened. In the future, when I set up a set of game sessions or a full-blown campaign, I know to ensure that the players are cool with the premise before investing too much time & effort in the planning. Anyway, thanks Ginny for the video and I hope that all is going well for you.
Just put up a poll for my bois: Combat, Rp, Story/World. They said they enjoy all of the above let’s go.
Just because a player isnt engaging with something doesn't mean they dont appreciate it
That's fair! But also... D&D is an interactive game! It's not a movie. It's important that players engage with the game!
@@GinnyDi That is true! I mean to say that I have had players go quiet during lore investigation type moments (one or 2 players drive that interaction while the others are passive) which made me think they werent interested only to have them tell me later that they think the depth of the lore is really cool and that they really appreciate it
Compromise was a big part of me coming into my own as a GM. Finding the venn diagram between what my players what and what I enjoy delivering can be a difficult balance to find sometimes, but always worthwhile when you crack the code.
(Sorry for the length.) The first ever campaign I ran was one that I took over from a friend after he was experiencing burnout. I imagined something more story-heavy with lots of lore and character arcs, because that's what I was hoping for when I was previously a player. The players... mostly wanted lots of combat and PVP and preferred to speedrun the RP side of things. I GMed multiple campaigns and one-shots for this group, and it sort of felt like a chore at times. I mainly accepted that this is what being a GM is like. These days, I GM for a new group actually enjoys the RP and storytelling side of TTRPGs. They give me a lot to work with and play off of with their backstories, read the setting lore, and are quick to befriend NPCs. It was sort of mind-blowing to me that running a game could be like this. As cliche as it is to say, the difference was night and day. My current group comes up with thoughtful backstories, and my first one sometimes they couldn't be bothered to give their character a name. Mild disclaimer: it might seem like I'm presenting by old players as a nightmare, but let's be real-- I was not a good GM at all when I was starting out. I feel like my current are better at having a mutual stake in the campaign, but I also feel that I'm better at facilitating that than I used to be.
I DM because I like to. Also my current DM wanted a break.
As a forever DM, I salute you.
It's either really unfrotunate, or really funny to know I got this on my homepage barely 45 minutes before my next session lol
To be honest i think there needs to be a push for players to be a bit more conscious of the dms work, if you want a good game then you need to engage. 5e players i have met have sometimes been a bit entitled in that regard and when the push is so heavily on the dm to bring the fun and the players dont then the whole game does not become fun. I have been incredibly blessed with very engaged players both in game and out of game, they make art, conspiracy boards, bingos and randomly pop into my dms with questions about the world and their characters relation to it.I also keep player engagement in mind when i start new games. When I ask for people I keep in mind if they would be interested in the system, what is their energy level and general investment. If they were disengaged in previous campaigns i held or played with them then i wont pick them. Pick players that fit your style.
At the same time... when I finally got to be a player, I realized that constant engagement is actually hard as hell and it's especially hard when the DM is playing show n' tell with the new world they're proud of. I felt like an asshole because I've been on the other side so often.
If there is one thing i've learned in all my years of DMing it's that sometimes hard to tell just how interested and invested your players are. I've had the opportunity a few times to stumble upon a player i thought didn't care about our last session telling a mutual friend just how much fun they had and how excited they are for the next session. Now yes, i wish they'd tell me that directly but i'm also glad they're excited about it and invested at all.
Hell yeah - First time DM lately and gobbling up ALL the DM advice.
Gl and have fun. ❤
Oof alot of these points made sense, I'm restarting my campaign after nearly a year break this month. Looking at my old notes made me realize i have an amazing group mainly cause i assembled my group of 5 of vastly different people but whom all love D&D for different reasons. It makes for sessions that vary wildly in tone, from comedy swamp adventure were only one player knows they are being tricked and resulted in the funniest character interactions i've ever had, Or our Druid fully immersing himself in roleplay but so low-key that only i noticed, leading to a complete overhaul of the campaign's villain because he played himself so vunerable in the moment that i took advantage of to ramp up the drama, the table was actually stunned to slience when i ended the game. Let your player's run one-shots in your world it helps everyone feel more connected to your story doesn't have to be woven into the main plot but might provide an new item for the main campaign or an understanding of a location espcially if a characters backstory mentions it.
A friend rolled a homebrew otterfolk character “connected to the otterfolk mob” so now otterfolk organized crime will always be present in my games
Otterfolk in newsie caps and vests asking shopowners for their protection fee
It's important to realize that just because some players don't engage in lore or write complex backstories, doesn't mean they aren't having a lot of fun and appreciate the efforts. I'm playing with a friend who I DM'd 3 campaigns for and am now playing with in his 4th (no longer forever DM!) He's never written more than 2 sentences for backstory and his current aracockra wizard's name is Birdman Placeholder with the standard creature art. He's the exact person Ginny is referring to who doesn't want "homework" in between sessions. But he's getting close to completing his 4th campaign in as many years because he plays weekly. That person deserves a spot at the table. They and their ridiculously-named, no-story-effort wizard who has saved my bacon more than once.
Added note on item 2 (engage in worldbuilding): Sometimes, players need enough world pre-built in order to make character decisions. They need context to play in for that spark of inspiration. Which is to say, world building might be best done in phases. Start with some basic themes, territories, etc, get player investment, then weave new details in as the characters are introduced to it. Which sounds good, until you get players who need that extra push. "Oh, I don't want to ruin your world" can be pretty common from considerate players. You have to remind them it's a *shared* world, and they have a hand in crafting a fun experience. If, y'know, they want to. Definitely invite ideas but don't bully for them.
Thanks for the video. You make excellent points, especially the fact that not all friends make good D&D players. I have been DMing for about a year and 1/2 now, and I got fortunate with my group. I had played in a bunch of different games (as a player) with a lot of different people, and I knew a few people that best matched my play style, so when I started a campaign, I only reached out to those people. We built the world together, and so far, everyone has been very enthusiastic about the game, and the players are very invested in the story.
My last campaign was the living incarnation of this great advice. I ran a bunch of games, even some long campaigns, before I finally started one with a session zero and helped everyone create characters with the direct connections to the world and to each other that THEY wanted. Basically, "I'm making dinner for you. What kind of food do you like?" That was the best campaign I ever ran. NOT because I was a genius storyteller, but because the players handed me the ingredients they wanted me to use and I did my best to make a meal that surprised them but still appealed to their appetites.
YES I always do this. In fact, I also require that my players make their_party_ together and an overarching goal. Whatever that is, that's what I'm focusing on and now they're driven by stuff that they themselves are interested in rather than me just handing them something.
I can definitely speak to the experience of having invested players being invested at different levels. A LOT of my players have been friends who are new players, like I was shortly before them. As a forever DM I’ve definitely gone crazy about it while most of my players have been more casual. But then, they have been new. A lot of the time, my games are focused on helping players learn how the game works by playing it, so being deeply invested in role-play usually comes later, and not yet in some. I love the idea of involving the players with world building! That sounds like it could work well for my groups!
As a DM, I don't have expectations of the outcome. I plan the framework of the scenario and let the players interact. I will attempt to react organically to the players' actions, adjudicating the situations. They can't go off-script if there's no script in the first place. If they go murderhobo and loot, then so be it, the world in context will react accordingly. If they want to chill out in town for a full RP session... then that's what the session will be. As a DM like to see what happens and I like to be surprised -that's where I get the most satisfaction, not so much of having players run through my meticulously crafted narrative.
It's a good way to run it but I can see how some DMs might find it quite draining that they can't make the decisions about the game they're creating. Glad you've found something that works for you though!
I've DM'd this way and you absolutely can still make decisions and have a hand in what happens. You still have constructed the world, the framework, and you have NPCs on the ground. It feels more like co-creating than anything, and no planning sessions end up wasted. 😊
Amen. It's so much less stressful to just set up the sandbox, some moving hooks and rumors, and then let them loose. The world is still curated to the framework I want, with massive "story" events moving in the background, but session prep never feels wasted because the players are making the majority of the "content."
I've felt that pain at many tables. Both as a GM and as a player. But my current table (I'm the ST for a VtM game) is incredible! The players are all super invested in their characters and the RP interplay. They're even writing their own "fanfics" (which become canon, if the players and I agree it's reasonable.)
the brain rot is REAL! You're a great ST and extremely patient! I hate that you've had other tables not pour into the world as much as you do... and I'm glad we get to be a breath of fresh air!!!
@@dovejuniper780 you all are an amazing table to run a game for!
Yes!!! My first step in starting a campaign is to play something other than dnd, we play dawn of worlds to make the map and some background events and lore that way they feel more comfort and grounded in the lore when they write their character! Its great!
I'm getting ready to run my first DnD champaign. I love yours and pointy hats videos. They have been super helpful ❤
Fantastic video, Ginny! "What's the point of DMing" is a super thought provoking question that you got me really interrogating my own choices and style when DMing, in the best way possible. Also, your advice is super solid! Especially involving the players in the worldbuilding. Even if they only want to be involved to a very small extent, such as by adding some details about a location or an NPC as part of their backstory, I think it's a must!
Number 2 was so big for our game. I had a map and some arbitrary lines of nations, and nothing else. So each player named their origin, the culture, and the people that most commonly populated it. It was fun, it game me some different perspectives, and got them really invested.
I've faced these too issues in some of my games with my group. Campaigns quickly turned into players shuffling into the next room simply because it is the next or follow this lead because the dm wants us to go there next. What really helped me was shifting to a more open narrative/world. This has made my games far more collaborative, since I create set pieces/factions/the world and then the players use them to build their story. It has definitely made my time dming easier too since I don't need to supply my players with a grand movie-worthy story every week leading them from one plot point to the next. It's been a blast watching my players discuss whether or not to take a castle ruled by a shady lord, search for a rumored temple or join some raiders on their excursion inland. I can't wait to see where their decisions bring them (and the story) next.
I'm gonna send this to my dm as he seems frustrated with our playing, thanks for making this video!! ^^
I'm sorry to hear that!! I hope you can figure out a way to play together successfully! ❤️
Here's another tip to get players to engage with plot: Mile stone leveling. Let them level to 3-5 fairly easy as you see fit, but after level 5 they only get levels when dealing with main story or backstory plot
I introduced a cook off to our game. One of my players has the Chef feat and they played for the hand (literally and figuratively) of another player. The two characters have shown interest in a D&D romance, so this was an interesting mechanic. There were teams, they rolled to cut up dragon meat and magical veggies, and used combat spells to cook, or speed up the cooking process. They’re more invested in this than when they fought a two-headed dragon!
Just came out of the experience of trying to pitch TTRPGs to one of my dear friend group (who's not the one I usually play with). In the session 0 I told them I only cared about telling a personal dramatic story together, and they said "yes", jumping on shooting character skeletons AND group ideas; flash forward 2 weeks (the deadline was 1 week) and noone has sent me their background yet. A month later noone had given me anything yet so I just let the whole thing die; I saved myself the trouble of wasting time doing pre-campaign prep and we are as much friends as we were before. I had seen the Pointy Hat video, so I knew beforehand! Not all your friends are D&D friends!
Good video. Maybe people don't intuitively think of DMing as the same as "making or creating" but I think it congruent in at least one respect and worth warning people about. "Making or creating" for the sake of recognition and approval from others as the primary motivating factor will always be a gamble. You are setting yourself up for big potential disappointment. Even if you do get what you desire from others the first time around the pressure will always be there to do it again, every time, and even better than the last time. The first time you don't hit, you will feel it. Worst case scenario, you lose interest in a creative exercise you could've kept loving. When making anything its important to spend a little time introspecting about why you are doing it and what you are looking for in the act itself. If its precious to you, take care to make is sustainable less you inadvertently rob yourself of future-joy.
I love that you continue this conversation
I definitely needed this video, great stuff!
I hope it can help!! 🥰
i do think theres something to be said about players not engaging with anything, as was the point of the original post. its always on the dms to make the game fun, to manage their expectations, and to be comfortable with their plans not going their way. but i think that players should humor the dm once in a while. follow the plothook u didnt find too interesting because maybe ur character did. talk to an npc that clearly had more thought and care put into them. dont jump to the first conclusion that reaches ur head. dnd is collaborative, and if dms are willing to put in the work and accept that not all of their endeavors will pay off, so should the players.
All great advice again. Thanks, take care and God bless. 😎🤘🍻
Can confirm, just because you are friends doesn't mean you'll appreciate the same thing in the same way. My long-running table recently had two of my close friends drop out of the game simply because it wasn't fun anymore for them. We still do other things together, but what they wanted out of the game no longer lined up with what we had. It's still hard, because the game was genuinely better with them in it, but ultimately everyone needs to choose for themselves how they spend their time, and just because people have different ideas on that does not mean they are any less for it.
One year ago, I followed the guide you made about the session 0, before the start of my new custom game, with a whole new party. Well... On the 2 next sessions, we lost 2 players who said like "No thank you" and left the group. But, 4 other players stayed, and now we are about to play our 50th session together. The group dynamic is incredible, the backstories of their characters are amazingly deep now, and my world is very complete, thank to everyone's work. So yes, I have to say it : THANK YOU, GINNY DI ! Your guides are amazing, and help me a lot to dm my game.
I'm having to design all my encounters with both combat and peaceful outcomes in mind. I did _not_ expect my players to talk their way out of a boss fight the way they did and had to scramble to recover the plot. Basically they found a gang's base during an investigation but then... bluffed their way into tricking the boss and his henchmen into just leaving. I allowed it because their methods made sense and they rolled well several times. The problem was that they didn't ask any questions or collect any evidence from the boss who left. I managed to slip in some evidence that they didn't realize was improvised and now I've got an NPC for a later subplot
I only even started DMing late last year because I'd just joined one game for the first time in years and wanted more D&D
I loved this video and feel the OP pain, I have had a lot of non D&D friends in the last few of years suddenly get interested in it without knowing that it can take effort on their part for the game to be really successful. Sometimes it just doesn't work and like you say its important to know that's ok. However, it is totally possible to turn a party of combat loot hoarders into role-players, so would encourage people not to give up on them and be flexible with the plot. Introduce them to the consequences of their actions (in a way that doesn't stop them having fun). If they ignore the warnings of the town oracle and go off killing goblins in a nearby cave instead of helping them fend off bandits, maybe have the bandits steal the item they were saving up for (or going to steal) in town. Or incentivise them to engage with NPC's by getting them to prove they are the hero's who defeated the Gnoll terrorising the village to get a discount or other reward. One of best ones I have had was putting in a little goblin that they kind of accidentally saved, but then bonded with over time. Most people are not monsters so don't just kill cute things in front of them for no reason. So, they had something to protect and also made them start to question if the next goblin encampment might be his family or not, making them more inclined to start talking with NPC's. The first 5 - 6 months of that game were slow (largely because I didn't know how to DM for them) but it lasted over two years and has some of my all time favourite moments in it.
Hi Ginny, big fan. I bought the calendar for this year, and I just wanted to say that I really love the quests! They've been really fun and have actually gotten me to leave my comfort zone and do some stuff that is good for me to do, but I just haven't prioritized in past years. Mariska is this month, and I'm already planning to have some friends over to chat and play games. I hope you do the quests again next year! Keep up the great work, always love the videos and calendars.
Thank you so much this was really helpful to get me motivated
Loved this, gave me some additional ideas to keep my friends engaged! They're all newer players and I'm a first-time DM, so I've been giving them a lot of peeks behind the screen so they have some insight into why I'm doing what I'm doing. I also periodically check in with them because expectations can change. If they decide they just want a "monster-of-the-week" type game, I'm happy to shift gears with them.
This is all such solid advice. I'm gonna be DMing my first homebrew campaign in 5E soon and I'm gonna take all of this on board. I was already planning on having my players each design part of the world, but this video has given me more ideas about how to approach them with that, as well as giving people an out if they don't feel like getting that involving in the worldbuilding.
Having been a "forever DM" for an inordinate amount of time, my take is that yes, DMs are generally more invested in D&D than their players - but only because they take on themselves the privilege - and responsibility - of entertaining their players with good stories, engaging encounters, memorable NPCs and the like. Knowing your group is fundamental, as is accepting *their* playstyles and expectations. It's not a competition... I spend more time and energy on D&D than my players, true, but I do like creating stuff to make them (and myself!) have a great time, so who cares? As long as everyone is having fun, that's fine for me :)
8:25 Thank you Editor Ginni. Yes, I tried this with one of my players, after 3 months(!) of asking him about his home town and him ignoring it, I built a town and sent to him. Asking, can you please at least "come up with your family members?". After 4-5 more weeks finally he replied with his parents names, and a sister. Only the sister had any description to her. Can you guess what that description was? "Magic item merchant". You can see what the player was trying to do here. LoL. Anyway, the player dropped out soon after and we never get to go to his hometown.
Really can’t stress enough how, every time I get in a DM funk, a Ginny Di video comes along to yoink me right outta the funk
Oh and practical advice: in the latest episodes of Worlds Beyond Number (#24 and 25 as I write this) they did something I’m 100% stealing in my own campaign: getting players involved in worldbuilding with 3 pointed questions So for example, my players are about to do a party in a Druid grove, and I’m gonna ask the Druid: - what’s the central dish / drink - how does the grove decorate for events like this - who in the community really gets their chance to shine at an event like this
What a great video! I am just getting back into D&D with the goal of DM-ing my own campaign eventually, so I found this video especially informative and interesting! Brava! 🙌
I think there's also something to be said for compromise. The DM can meet players in the middle between the game they want to run and the one the players want to play. It might not be the "perfect" game, but that's the collaborative element. But of course don't do this if the elements you'd be compromising on are fundamental to your enjoyment.
letting players be involved in the midsession world building also takes a huge load off the DM. For a campaign without a module, at the start of a session, I'd have them roll dice to set an "order". Something comes up like Player X: "I want to find a master potter in the city", DM: "ok you ask around and find one." *checks who is next on list* DM:"Player Y: tell me their name, species, and some stuff about them".... Makes the DMs job easier, and most players love it. (if I had a player who didn't like that, I'd clearly give them the option to not roll/put their name on the list)
"Back to the Ginny who got more sleep" is the best thing you've said so far. So true.
Thank you! really needed this cuz I was going through a similar thing with a few friends recently as a heavily invested roleplayer DMing for a few players interested in combat and looting. It's hard, but I've figured out ways to adapt and help make everything interesting for my players, as well as them for me, so if anything this video only validated my thoughts!
I really needed this! ❤
Great video as always!
I recently overheard one of my players talking to one of our friends about how awesome the most recent session was. Felt fantastic.
I think I’ve been very lucky with my players. We were all brand new to the game when we first got the group together, and our first campaign was honestly not as good as it could have been. However, we all learned from our mistakes, talked to each other like adults, and I think everyone’s having a lot more fun with our current campaign.
my group is starting a new campaign this friday! our first campaign was completely homebrewed and the world was created by my dm and for this campaign he expressed wanting to run a module. so he gave a us options and the group landed on running Waterdeep Dragon Heist. it was a fun way for all of us to choose our next campaign and how we wanted to play. i love my group so much cause we have a good mix of combat addicts and role play lovers and he has expressed liking the challenge of creating something for our large group to enjoy
i'm preparing my first campaign as a dm (i've been a player for 3 years) and your videos are so thoughtful and inspiring! creating a fun experience for me and my players seems so much more about communication that it did before, lol
This was helpful, Thank you, I'll share it. Also, Love your creative ad skits :-D
I mentioned a similar idea on a previous video but the format I use tends to be: The first session is very much "here is a pretty small objective in a much larger world" where all major factions are either briefly present or hinted at. The factions they seem to care most about can then become the main players in the storyline that'll unfold. I know the story world well enough that I know what the eventual Big Bad will be, but which faction is going to be involved in summoning them/which faction they're working for will be determined entirely by which faction naturally slides into the villain role based on how the party play. Also it means players who like worldbuilding but aren't good at it can engage in the first session without knowing who they are necessarily, and then decide "oh actually I like that faction I want to be connected with them in my backstory". The pilot episode of a TV show often has "early instalment weirdness" as the creative team don't necessarily have everything figured out but know the vibe they're going for, and so I just full on embrace that and if anyone's unsure I say "well look, we'll do the first session and then you can figure out where you want your character to slot in once we've got a sense of the larger world."
Amazing video! My attention span isn't great for KZhead videos, but I can always finish Ginny Di content, such great concepts and explanations ❤
Great video!! Awesome work!
My cousin Nick introduced me to a weird game called “Hillfolk”. Session Zero is a brainstorming event on how everyone is connected and their pre-adventure stories. Often a player has a self image that is incredibly different than how others see them. [I played an oblivious himbo in a one shot due to this mechanic]
You have completely described things I've experienced lately. I enjoy playing D&d. Period. I am in a few different groups, a couple very heavy role play, 1 very combat oriented. Two of the RP sessions are very different due to the player involvement in each. I dont mind changing play modes according to which group im with. But i do know that some of the other players could not exist in the worlds of the other sessions. So all that to say thank you. You are so intellectual and such an amazing person.
its kinda fun to see what my players come up with I gave the characters down time to get them ready for an encounter, one invented a museum in the shire and it was so much fun that we used it later on too. one invented the hook for an amulet he heard of and I'm like "he didn't discus this with me but fuck it lets roll." we're on a quest to find the components for said amulet.
Yup, it's all about finding the right audience for your style of game or adapting to the players that you have.
I really love the idea of having players collaborate on the intentional set-up and world building. I wouldn’t have thought of that as an option but it makes me more excited to return to a TTRPG if I can share in the world as a co-creator and not just a player entering into the world.
The way you covered this topic was great, Ginny. Also that skit for this sponsor was great. I'm especially glad you mentioned not needing to burn people's flesh to get access to the maps. That's very important to me as a gamer.
My group used to be the murder hobo type, back when we were young. Now, 40 years later, they are WAY more engaged, way more likely to try and parley, use stealth, or even avoid a conflict that isn't necessary. They like deeper encounters that are more than " jumps out, roll initiative". We have fewer encounters per session, but they last longer, and there is way more interaction. Even if combat happens, they use better tactics, creative spell use, etc. Very proud of them. It makes GMing a lot more fulfilling.
This video helped me realize how important a backstory is especially with 1st level characters. The players' backstory helped in making the campaign setting and motivations on how each of them met up. As a side effect, the Players are even more invested in role-playing. Thanks Ginny!
Great message--and absolutely wonderful gas station review