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Today we're diving into the WHOs, WHATs, WHYs, HOWs, and WHEREs of Z Banding
Links to Printable Files:
Testing Z Wobble Tower:
www.printables.com/model/3936...
Axial Thrust Bearing Mount:
www.printables.com/model/3134...
Motor Mount (without) Thrust Bearing:
www.thingiverse.com/thing:533...
Leadscrew Cleaners:
(2 I like)
www.printables.com/model/6361...
www.printables.com/model/4518...
Lead Screw Covers:
www.printables.com/model/7847...
Motor Shims:
www.printables.com/model/8016...
Purchased Parts:
Integrated Leadscrew/Stepper Motor:
www.amazon.com/dp/B07YQR3X1K?...
Plum Couplers:
www.amazon.com/dp/B08QV7SVH7?...
Thrust Bearing:
www.amazon.com/dp/B0C7KY7MPD?...
POM Nut:
www.amazon.com/dp/B088FPNVVF?...
Oldham Coupler:
www.amazon.com/dp/B0C542V7MQ?...
@MaxyMeanderings
-Maxy
Like what I'm creating? Follow me on...
Socials:
Insta: / maxymeanderings
#3dprinting #ender3v2 #zbanding #zbinding #
Something most don't know about stepper motors: Inside them is a spring-washer type pre-tensioner, it preloads the motor and keeps it from rattling if you shake it, guess what side it's usually on though? The bottom(bushing upwards when used in the z-axis like this), your gantry weight might be sufficient to deflect this spring and cause irregularities as the print gets heavier. You can tell by watching the coupler while giving it a little push down against. Your thrust bearing is probably fixing this. On mine I took the motor apart and relocated the sprint to the top so it pushes down instead, resulting is a more stable Z-reference.
Genius! This is a great tip, it very noticeably reduced Z banding for me and it's so easy to test if your motor has a spring-washer configured this way. Thank you!!!
Any chance you can show or reference a video that explains this?
This is one of the best produced 3d printing videos I have ever seen. Engaging at every segment.
"Self lubricating" is code for "material lost to wear acts as a sort of lubricant".
No, it's material dependent. Stainless steel, titanium, glass for instance aren't "self lubricating" no matter how they wear. Brass, copper, white metal alloys are, because unlike those, they shed flat plates that slide across each other. Same for plastics, nylon, ptfe, UHMW, POM/delrin contain internal lubricants that are only released with wear, some are even impregnated with oil, they all need an initial break in before this happens. PLA, ABS to name but two, do not.
@@m3chanist Wh "no" , what i say wrong? Of course worn material can be either a lubricant or an abrasive, both is possible. Besides very confused comment. There aren't "internal lubricants" in the plastics mentioned, it's purely low surface energy causing the material to be low friction, chemically induced property. PTFE PA etc are not impregnated with oil.
@SianaGearz I didn't say they were, I said they can be and are in a variety of engineering applications. I'm sorry for your confusion, read more carefully. What you said that was wrong was that material lost to wear acts as a kind of lubricant, as I pointed out, that is only jn some cases, that it is material specific, not a blanket catchall.
@@m3chanist ☝ This!
@@m3chanist they were talking about "Self lubricating" materials specifically mentioned in the video, not all materials. they were and still are correct.
Wow this video is great, you deserve far more views and subscribers. Really well researched and exposed, amazing job!
Excellent video! These kind of deep dives are the best 👍
Phenomenal show, sir. Great enthusiasm and top notch experimentation.
Quite comprehensive. Great stuff. Appreciated how much effort you put into it.
I've subscribed without even watching the whole video. The intro was so captivating.
I wanted to thank you here. You changed my print quality. With this training you gave. Everything changed for me. I was not at all satisfied with the quality of my print. But when I did what you said. The result I got was unbelievable. My print quality has improved so much that there is no difference with resin. I would love to have a place where I could show you the results. And see how the quality is. It looks like it was taken with bamboo printers. With this tutorial, you showed me that it is possible to get a good quality print. And it is not a wish. I am very sorry that I got to know your channel earlier. I wish I had seen this video earlier. thank you. Thank you generous man. Thank you for your great advice. Please continue your work and post more tutorials. No matter how much I thank you, I have thanked you little. Thank you, kind man. thank you❤❤❤❤❤❤🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏thank you thank you
Thanks for all your testing!!
Incredibly well done video! Definitely subbed and look forward to more from you!
Thanks a lot for this clear view man,
Excellent tutorial! Thank you!
That was pretty good. Well done and thanks.
A lot of good info and follow through. No mention of the belt conversion which is claimed to also eliminate z banding.
Super helpful. Thanks!
The most critical thing with leadscrew alignment is that the bearings and nut are all in *exactly* the same relative position to the linear axis the screw is driving. The screw being straight is irrelevant if the top & bottom bearings are at different distances from (or laterally to) the linear slide! That is probably why the top bearing caused problems - the opposite end was not in line with the nut, so it was causing lateral force on the nut near the ends of the travel. It applies to the industrial machine tools I work on, and equally to 3D printers or any small CNC.
Heres to your videos getting more views and hopefully more subs! Also congrats on getting a sponsor!
Love the presentation amazing thanks for your research
i became one of the 2K subs cause of this vid, keep goin!
What a great video! Fun to watch, too. :) Thanks Maxy,
Thank you for sharing! Good idea about the thrust bearings, something I haven't tried. I recently just installed a dual Z axis stepper motor kit, the box says it's from Creality, but I'm not sure if it's authentic. Anyway, the kit I bought came with anti-backlash lead screw nuts aluminum mounts for both stepper motors. I still had to put a shim for the originally located stepper motor, but no for the other side, I'm guessing the gantry bracket for the original spot wasn't drilled properly or bent at the correct spot. When I was aligning the lead screws with the stepper motors, I left all the mounting screws and lead screw nut loose first, and also moved the X axis gantry all the way down for better alignment, I even removed the printer head so I could go as low as possible. I didn't know about the top mount could cause issues. When I installed mine, I moved the X axis gantry all the way up possible, so that the top mounts are aligned the best way possible before I tightened them in place. I might leave mine in for now, as I don't see any Z banding issues with my prints.
Note that brass oldham couples like the ones you showed aren't supposed to work well under compression, when an oldham coupler that responds well to compression is installed the lead screw isn't constrained laterally at the X axis, in those cases constraining at the top _is_ a good idea because otherwise the lead screw is underconstrained. There are bearing-based oldham-style couplers like the "wobble wings" and the suchlike that are designed to work under compression, also bear in mind that thrust bearing are great but can introduce vertical motion in the lead screw if they are not perfectly perpendicular to the axis of the lead screw, which can be tough to ensure
Great vid... I struggled to find good info on this issue when I decided to "sell" prints B4 actually learning how to "print" prints🤷... lol
This brought back memories of my old tevo tarantula. I have to do something with those parts and upgrades I bought for it, one of these days.
Now I get to see this masterpiece again 😉
i have a og cr10 and found pretty much the same thing. the things that helped the most was oldham connector that was filed(mine did not slide smooth) and lubed and getting rid of the top guide. plum coupler didnt change anything for me and antibacklash made things worse. i got new leadscrews after the oldham and i so disernable improvements. only other thing that helped along the way was replaceing the stock extruder with a direct drive and a mains bed heater with insolation. going to give the motor mounts a try because why not.
Nice video quality !
Great topic, thanks 👍
Great advice ! I solved the leadscrew issues by, THROWING THEM AWAY and replacing them with a belted Z mod. Z hopping is MEGA accurate now and my supports just snap clean off. Next thing I will do is install linear rails because those POM wheels are a huge problem aswell....
Now overhaul it again and switch it to a belted Z axis set up 😂 Jokes aside, fantastic video and quality, very informative 🙌
Thanks! 3 things that I would like to test still: A banded Z setup, Linear rails on the Z Gantry, and the Wobble X attachment.
@@MaxyMeanderings Those are some fantastic choices! As far as linear rails I was reading KevinAKASam's (belted Z mod creator) documentation for the belted z and he advised against it. Reason being is the POM wheels allow you to tighten the concentric nut and create friction, where as the linear rails have 0 friction. Problem is with only 1 stepper holding the entire X gantry, the X gantry will fall once the printer is turned off if the Z axis has linear rails. Having that friction from the POM wheels ends up helping the single stepper hold the gantry in place, or at least gently bring it down.
@@MaxyMeanderings Yeah don't use wobbleX on a dual lead screw setup like on your ender, it needs quite a bit of weight to work properly. It was really meant for ball screws I think but I've seen those get a lot cheaper
My modified cr10s pro v2 prints good quality with the old micro swiss setup. I have z hop enabled which helps reduce z banding.
EXCELLENT video my guy! I have 2 Ender 3’s and I have dual lead screws on both of them along with direct drives! You have explained what I have been having trouble and have noticed! I have noticed the screws are really not lined up properly, and it’s just a few mm if that. And that really makes a difference. The trouble with belts is that they are like chains on a bike or motorcycle. You can only tighten them so much until you’ve stretched them all you can and have to replace them. So belts (in my opinion) are not on option for me. Any way great video, subscribed!
great review, everything is great!
Thanks. You helped me.
The #1 most thorough set of tests/results and solution options on YT. My issues are around z-binding (mainly), with no discernible pattern in the layers. It's been a total pain to trace down and I'm pretty sure it's a combination of the anti-backlash nut and sub-standard linear bearings, but good luck trying to find a set of well made bearings that are any better than what Creality uses. Again - really good video and I've subbed.
In my opinion & experience as long as we let the top end hang free and allow the linear rod to hold its position. Best is increase to 10mm rod or use linear guide the Z. I use a PLA printed z Lead nut and it really zero down the blacklash. Sometimes some parts of the machine need NOT be metal to cut out vibrations and noise. Part of your printed band seems like uneven extrusions not totally z-band. I am not sure about converting to belt to stop my blame on the Z-Leadscrew bend. Anyone tested can share your views too. Bear in mind Z is the least movement axis among all bed slingers. Thanks for making this well presented video ❤
Please explain the jargon. What is PID tuning please ? Palm Nuts ? PID Tuning ? We beginners need explanations of technical terms we have not heard before. Thank you !
Thought I clicked on a larger KZhead channel because of how well the quality of content was, keep it up. Also I'm going to definitely try some of your recommendations
I cured my Z banding by revisiting the math of how many rotations or steps needed for x number of millimeters. Mine was off by just a fraction but, the accumulation was dramatic and contributing to Z-Banding.
The just about to be released, Ender 3 V3 with CoreXZ kinematics seems to be a good approach with no lead screws. How would CoreXZ compare to linear rails? Of course, the Ender 3 V3 is nearly double the cost of the Ender 3 V3 SE.
good video, AND, funny, I built my Prusa I3 almost entirely by myself. my Z threads are old-fashioned M5 threads and yes, they are loose at the top AND go back and forth (not extreme!) and that's why I ended up here, I still have to see what I can do about it BUT I'm in no hurry, the printer works well enough so it will get better with time! Healthy and Friendly Greetings from the Netherlands everyone! Rob
damn, editing & content quality fooled me into thinking you got like at least 1 mil subs... so pro, fingers crossed
You see your problem isn't the lead screw at all. Mine is bend but there is no sign of wobble on the print. I have done all "bad" practices. Fully tightened the POM lead screw thing to the frame while you are supposed to leave it untightened. I added a bearing at the top which is supposedly really bad but I need it to stop the lead screw from vibrating with my high acceleration. The problem instead is Creality leaving the screws too loose from the factory. Specifically the ones holding the Z Gantry so technically the X gantry. There are several screws that you can tighten to lock the parts with the V wheels. Essentially you have to first make sure your X gantry is level then fully tighten the eccentric nuts so that the inner wheels are jamming the outer wheels. Then tighten the brackets while making sure it stays level. After that you can untighten the eccentric nuts again and check for play. If you have done it correctly your X axis doesn't want to wobble anymore it will want to naturally be straight. After that you can tighten the eccentric nuts to the correct spec so slightly touching but its really not required as the outer V wheels will do all the work. What that does it prevent jamming on the lead screw as your X axis will always be level. I think you are putting way too much thought into it while for the Ender 3 v2 Neo (my printer) there really isn't much to it. From the factory there was 0 banding. I replaced the brass with POM because it promised better accuracy and it indeed only has 0.05mm difference between moving up and down. As long as you move the same direction its 100% accurate. Only when going up then down vs only going up does the 0.05mm come into play. Also my printer needs 398.94 steps per mm instead of 400 for the Z.
Isn't this up to the manufacturer to fix it? In any case, that's why we call it "ender"
Excellent video, but you missed the "wobblex" adapter, they are amazing.
2k subs is criminal
@ The end of the Video I was just about to watch "Curb Your Enthusiasm" and heard the theme song in your video, Magic. No idea how I got to this video, but you are entertaining. Thanks.
My stock fixed coupler was from factory extremely misaligned. So fixed coupler is a no no for me. But if you get one that's well made, I agree is a better option.
One question: - In the Oldham Coupler design, you do recommend removing the top constraint, right? Thanks for the awesome quality content. I have a Sovol SV06 Plus, and I want to eliminate the Z-Banding once and for all.
Yep, I recommend removing the stabilizer across all setups.
@@MaxyMeanderings Understood, thanks for the reply!
You’re tone/presentafion to the audience has a kind of Acerola flair. Which is a high compliment from me.
i looked into oldham couplers 9 years ago for my 3d printer and they weren't available in a usable size. they were also expensive.
Any place to buy the thrust bearings, no longer showing
Can you post links to the Oldham and Thrust Bearing / Pom u used in the video?
Just added them
I was really wondering, why there were no "lead screw stabilizers" on my Prusa. Seems like they had done their homework.
One thing I can print the motor shins when I have the motor z rods out and realized there way off
You can throw 1000 dollars into precision ball screws, but your extruder is the limiting factor. Uneven extrusion is the cause of the artifacts that are non-rhythmic. A leadscrew will always give a rhythmic artifact pattern.
So once again, purpose built items beat all; still though, there are issues sometimes caused by the print, and those can be frustrating to try to flush out..
Very throughout, nice!
Wobble X?
Why this guy only has 1000subs? Is this his sub channel or something
Wow I'm surprised you i ly have 1k subscriber's You're pushing 1M quality videos! I subscribed very easilty
Amazing
Fantastic production quality!! Great information too. You gained my sub.
Nice repair chap, think the caps may not have registered as it takes time to charge and those small testers time out
z acceleration can also affect this issue try lowering it from the usually default value of 500 to 200/100 and you probably might reduced/eliminate the issue in a few of your configurations.
I found printable motor mounts to help with XY alignment online and upgraded to polymer lead screw nuts and old ham couplers. No more Z banding that appeared out of nowhere!!
please, where u finding the xy motor mounts?
@@wilsonmachado8695 search for Ender 3 V2 stepper mount on printables, I tried posting a link but YT isn't liking that.
Search for Ender 3 V2 stepper mount on printables, I tried posting a link but YT isn't liking that.
@@wilsonmachado8695 search for Ender 3 V2 Z stepper mount on Printables.
@@wilsonmachado8695 search for ender 3 v2 z stepper mount on printables
what is the files for this test called
The Link is now in the description
WAW...INTERESTING :) VERY IMPORTANT TO LEARN :) THANK YOU FOR SHARING :) THANK YOU FROM ISRAEL :)
dumb question, why not just put a distance sensor on each axis and actively compensate in software? if the nozzle isn't where it should be, move it until it is. sure you should get rid of most of the mechanical error but it seems like pushing water uphill to attempt to get rid of every mechanical source of error. you could even build a fancy machine learning model to control for any wobble at some point that has to be a cheaper solution than all these hardware upgrades.
That's a great point... Perform a quick X and Y offset in between the layers to compensate for the nozzle shift caused by mechanical issues with the leadscrew
@@MaxyMeanderings yeah some kind of PID loop
I use anti-backlash pom nuts but if you don't use z-hop anti-backlash really won't do anything for you. The single Z screw is the downfall of virtually every entry level bed slinger.
Excellent video; Z-wobble can be a real PITA to resolve, especially for n00bs, so this should be a great resource. 👍 Technically, POM _does_ need lubrication, but, IIRC, only if it's loadbearing, which in this application is absolutely minimal. So, even though it's not required, a dab of PTFE or silicone lubricant should be fine. There are a few types of co-polymers of POM, such as POM-C which contains ~10% PTFE, so no lube at all would be necessary. 🤓 Oh¹, and *_Old Ham_* made me both laugh and cringe in equal proportions; it's pronounced as _hold 'em,_ but without the _H._ 😂😬 Oh², how I wish I could run this video through an audio filter to replace every _"ZEE"_ with a _"ZED",_ but that's a _me_ issue, lol. 😜 Subscribed!
Imo, spider coulplings are a terrible option for anything CNC. Adds extra play and backlash, which is not ideal (even compared to stock sleeves that are not of a great quality). They're great for something like a centrifugal pump coupling though, lol.
No business having this good production quality
During your testing did you think of testing a belt driven z drive?
Also great video you got my subscription.
Yep, I still want to test a belt driven Z axis, Linear rails on the Z and the Wobble X attachment
@@MaxyMeanderingsI had another idea. What if instead of mounting the motors at the bottom of the 3D printer, what if they were mounted at the top. With a top mount could you sync the motors with a belt at the input shaft so you wouldn't put a binding force at the end of the screw? If this is hard to understand comment again and I'll explain better with images. Alternatively you could mount the motors to the gantry and then have them pull the gantry up this could also allow syncing at the motor level. Lastly is there any board with dual/triple independent z motor control for software syncing using offsets ?
@@RussFoote there's boards you can use independent dual z drivers(really you just need the extra drivers) but I don't think they have some offsets. I've thought of lifting the x axis(z) from the middle with 1 but haven't gotten around to doing that.. there's some belt synced 2 axis systems with screws and there's a corexy on the z/x axis bedslinger printer out there as well. while fun none of them solve some inherent problem that most people would care about so they're not that common. most people just don't need the z to run that fast. you can use biggest linear rails you can find on the z rails that are static though and make that as rigid as you want, you can build a box that rises with the z to stiffen it up too since weight of that is not an issue on a bedslinger.
When I get a bent lead screw I just bend it back and test roll it on a glass surface.
subbed when i saw the microphone
🤘🤘
or just spend 60bucks for dual belt Z kit for elegoo :D it deletes whole wobble problem of leadscrews...and if u want u can combine it with linear rails so POM wheels wont get problematic
okay put your hand up if you thought, like I did, that it was your front doorbell at @00.44?
Have You heard about WobbleX?
Funny, looking at Mark Wahlberg with the voice of Mark Rober.
why not use a universal joint or whatever its called to remove z banding
bro, need to pay your light bill
your motors shouldn't be getting hot. i been 3d printing for 9 years and never had a hot motor, they stay around room temp. i ordered a thermal camera and should be getting it in a week or two and so i can prove it then.
What motors are you using? Never saw a nema 17 that didn't get hot
Best cure for zbanding on and ender 3... get a bambu labs 3d printer.
Ec-cen-tric
idk why iam watching this i dont have a cory XY and not issues xD i litterlay cant get that problem fixed in the way u did because urs is a bed slinger xD but anyway good video
as a polymechanic this hurts my eyes
3D printing is a mechanical nightmare
Anyone else get major tool vibes from his presentation
Like the band?
I fixed mine by getting a P1S lol
ek-cen-tric, not ee-cen-tric
This. So much this. 🤣
why so many z rod gymnastics, just go belted Z mod
Went this way and cant believe this isn't standard.
just get a belted Z mod.
Eccentric pronunciation ek-sen-trik not e-sen-trik
HOW THE FUCK AM I PRINTING A Z SCREW CLEANER IF MY PRINTER CAN'T EVEN PRINT A POTATO ???
That bubble you live in... Is this really video from 2024? All wrong. Seriously. Been there, done that and thats why i dont trust any 3d printing content creator. Your results are better because new parts are better - not weared out. And dont use that electronic level with anything, especially printer.
So "Fixed" actually means "Minimised" .... gotcha.
For the love of god... I'm no stranger to tuning/upgrading tools but this video wore me out before it was 25% done. Buy a Bambu lab printer and make things instead of chasing 🧚♂️ ✨️!!
sure I'll send you my venmo. and I will pick one up. Point here is. not everyone has bambu money. and i think that was the point of the whole video.
Not everyone wants to drop 1K+ when they already have 3D printers. Nothing wrong with keeping the old machines tuned.
probably would have been cheaper and less frustrating to just buy a higher quality printer to begin with.