This video shows how a cross country flight in the alps ends up as an outlanding.
The flight starts at the German Alpine gliding school in Unterwössen in Bavaria (DASSU - www.dassu.de), and heads south into the Austrian alps. The weather conditions were marginal for cross country flying. I took off in a group with 2 other gliders and we hoped to make it out of the Alpine foothills and get deeper into the alps where the weather was more favourable.
Things I try to remember about outlandings:
+ Choose a good anchor field/area early
+ Consciously adjust mental state from cross country to staying up / landing
+ Take a long final to slow things down
Great source of outlanding fields - landewiesen.streckenflug.at/
Great base for flights into the alps - DASSU - www.dassu.de
I’m interested in what you look for when searching for thermals when you get into outlanding mode. Also your tips on making safe outlandings. Let me know in the comments.
Music credits
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Nicely done, couldn't have chosen a better field
👋 Hi Tim, I love your channel. I'm honered to have you visit mine!
Very nice video - thanks for sharing your experience here!
well done! I liked your discussion/ decision making, video, and graphics. The end, just before landing with the camera looking back at you and the back of the glider with the wings was outstanding! Never saw that view on anybody's videos. Now, new subscriber.
Thanks! I'll try to keep them coming
Fantastic video, looking forward to watching more, cheers
Wunderbar, mate.
I remember my first Alpine landing at Briancon in France, like you we were doing a lead follow and I became low. It was late in the day so the sun was not heating the rocks and the valley was un-landable for 80kms to the South which was our route back to Sisteron where we had come from I was in an Astir CS and my friend was in his K6e he had the advantage of being lighter and could climb better in light thermals but as soon as I left the sun and was in the darkness of the valley it was only going to be an Out landing. In those days Sisteron had a map of the Alp's from Their Airfield to Germany and East to the then East/West Buffer zone and it had a system of Pin Flags all over this map that were colour coded. Each colour had a description of what might happen, Red being Glider wrecked and pilot injured with Green being a good field and No damage or injury. There were 2 or 3 other colours and the field at Briancon where I landed was Orange colour on my return to Sisteron that evening there was lots of Singing and wine being given to me and the Song sung was about "Being with the Cows" Unknown to me I landed in a field where the outcome should of been a wrecked Glider. I know that on the approach I had to fly under Power lines and on touch down the field was split level with a drop of about 3/4meter which I floated over and touch down a second time in and stopped. We had a River and Railway line to cross with the the Glider having to be carried out in bits to the Trailer much to my retrieve crews Groans and Moans but I was safe and No damage to the Glider. I flew 3 days later with the then Club CFi to the site in a two seater and he said I had done a good job to come out of it un harmed or damaging the Glider that was back in 1987.
That's one hell of an experience! Lucky for us all these days we can take the outlanding map with the coloured pins with us in: landewiesen.streckenflug.at/. Maybe you can find your field on the map and see what the grading is today.
Sounds like St Blaise. Under the power wires, then over the ditch and then stop before the next ditch. Le Rosier is a little better.
magnificent landing mate!
I hope people appreciate the time you've put in in your video edit and that the wide view lens changes perception of closeness of objects (border) It's always good not being the first one going into a paddock, you know its okay. The sharp bump just after touch down is a testimony to build quality of gliders, except for the LS brakes 😀 I once landed out during a contest in a field full of gliders, it looked like an airfield, a Discus BT even did a marginal low pass with his turbo running.... I have great memories of numerous outlandings, so I'm not a sofa pilot I think hèhè. To me it looked as an almost dead air mass, I think in that valley at 500m above the floor there was no chance of getting away, not enough energy passing trough the cloud deck and not enough wind. Keep flying in all sorts of weather, your learning curve will be steeper in marginal conditions!
yes the marginal weather is where most of the learning is happening. It certainly exposes you a great deal more on a day like this compared to a day where you find +3 m/s climbs with your eyes closed.
Thanx for commentary and a few points of camera views
Very well shot and edited. Looks like you were scratching there for a while....Well done.
Actually thats was a good down wind, cross wind and a nice 30 second final appraoch, hard to fault. In NZ we normally come in a tiny bit steeper to get over the fence, that almost all North Island paddocks have around them, and then full brake, to stop as quickly as possible to avoid any unkown ostacles. Your paddock was a dream!
Killin it!
Well done! nice landing
Gran decisión!
Nice landing, I would have gone to St. Johann airfield, 10-15 km down the valley, since the sky did not look very promising I would have left earlier and higher. From there a Towplane would have brought you back to Uw.
Rigid wing hang glider here... that transition deeper into the Alps was impressive - although, at somewhere around 70:1 glide angle, I suppose it's doable ;-) I always admire the sheer performance of your gliders, it's truly awesome. When watching any glider vids, I always get this "come on, it's time to land, you're way too low" sensation - only to see you do another 10 searching passes for that low save thermal 😆Nicely done outlanding.
Thanks! Though I think most glider pilots also dream of 70:1 ratios. I saw a lot of hang gliders just last weekend in the alps. First time I'd seen any. I'm glad there is still a community out there.
Good job!
I think the approach was too long and flat with very little brake so you touched down with a lot of energy and neutral stick with very little brake out in your flare. If an overrun potential formed, cow in the pasture, walker, drainage ditch you had no option to manoeuvre shorter without a solid hit on the ground. It’s a hay paddock, trying that approach in rougher terrain like Australia or NZ would not be so forgiving. Steeper and more brake allows you to have less energy in the flare, hitting your aiming point and you can either shorten or extend for very little attitude change closing or opening brakes. No doubt a good experience for you and handy having a glider already on the ground reducing alot of stress. I had a few flights in the alps and learn those northerly are dead! Sadly lasted all week while I was there. You’ve gained a subscriber though.
Yes you’re spot on. This is probably the most shallow I ever flew an out landing. Knowing the other glider had just done the same does take a lot of the anticipation out. Nord Stau (northerly winds) in this part of the alps is really a pain. 100km south and they are having the best days of the season. NZ is on my list! Did my powered commercial license there and I’m still kicking myself for not doing some gliding
You have chosen one of the best club to fly from, the rest is less important. Well done. Pilots operating at UWO are very friendly and they would share lots of useful info that can be very important for a flatland pilot like myself. During my visits, a good soaring day usually ended with a delicious BBQ or a large bottle of weissbier. It is a fantastic place and much less dangerous than flying in the French Alps in my view. Enjoy your time there.
Absolutely. DASSU (www.dassu.de/) is a great place. Hope to see you there one day
@@the.flying.adventure I used to tow my Sport Vega from Cambridge to Dassu. Jan, Stefan, Felix and CFI Philip were all very helpful. I am currently a member of London GC. Sadly, I am very busy this summer. May be next year, I could consider arranging a trip to UWO. Do you normally live/fly in the UK?
I live in Germany so I'm very spoilt for options and weather. I did do my first solo in the UK at Upavon many years ago :)
Very nicely done. As a retired instructor I would have been more than happy to sit in the back while you did that circuit and field landing. One comment was incorrect about your closeness to the right side of the field. As you correctly have the boundary on one side so you have manoeuvre room in the event of a late seen obstacle or an overrun. Happy soaring.
Thanks, good to hear! I think the camera lens can make things look a bit closer than they are but that field was plenty wide enough. The issue that doesn’t show up well in the video is how wet it was at the eastern end. I was in no hurry to touch down in the mud!
As a highly qualified sofa expert :), I think it was a mistake to look for a thermal going second time along the empty ridge. I would rather try a middle of the valley on the second pass and a small hill on the other side - south from the ridge. In case of the wind from whatever side, the hill could have a bump above it. But the very first mistake is to go far away from the airfield in so unpromissing weather.. But the landing was really nice.
I agree with the thermal search. When I watched it back I wished I'd tried the other side and specifically that small kind of isolated hill you pointed out. If there was any warm air it was probably climbing up that hill. However, unpromissing weather is where most of the learning happens in my experience. Landing out is a part of gliding, better to embrace it than to fear it. If you ever consider trading the sofa for something more crampt and uncomfortable, absolutely try DASSU (www.dassu.de/), hardly a better place in the world to learn flying.
You wanted comments on where to search for lift...I would have used a calendar and searched for a day with less continuous overcast :)
I wish my holiday schedule and that calendar would align.
@@the.flying.adventure Probably not the best reply, old and bold pilots and all that.
great!
Nicely executed landing. But if you are team flying, take advantage of that. Don't ever just follow the other glider. Split up and cover twice the opportunities. While in general, the day looked very weak, it looked like you had some strong sink on that last ridge. If there is no prevailing winds, and you hit sink on a ridge, it usually means the air is returning to higher altitudes in the center of the valley, so try that before you get too low. Also, once you flew down the ridge and it wasn't working, for sure don't re-fly the same ridge.
You should have tried the opposit side of the valley. The small hills NW of the Lofferer Steinberge are often good for a low save. It makes no sense to stay at a slop that doesent work.
When you were flying West along the Steinplatte, the weather was clearly not working, so in your situation I would have kept going using every bit of lift on the spurs aiming to follow the valley round to the South to land at Sankt Johann in Tyrol. The valley floor from Innerwald all the way to S. Johann has excellent field landing opportunities having landed at a village called Weng myself many years ago in our LS3 trying to make Sankt Johann in identical North wind conditions. The difference was, I had around 800’ only at the Steinplatte. Given your 2,000’ and with a bit of scratching, I’m pretty sure you could have just about made it to the airfield
Yes I think as we’d just found a climb near the Weitsee we were expecting the Steinplatte to be working better (as I have found from my limited experience). Without trying it we would never know. My guess is still that there was a 0.5m/s climb somewhere in that valley, we just never found it. St Johan sounds like a great place. Next time I’ll push my luck a bit closer to it.
If you learn hang gliding you'd get comfortable with short or small approaches. I often do upwind 360's to burn altitude, widen the last one into a U into final. The extra weight and speed makes sense on weight shift aircraft, but could be a tool under your belt if you ever have to land in a tiny hole with hills around
Yes, I think it’s great to have a tool box of different approaches and techniques that can be opened during any situation. The approach into Unterwössen on RW06 is actually a bit tricky due to terrain and does require a steeper final approach. This field in comparison is simple.
With that overcast cloud situation, where and how should the thermals develop? That was not really a day for cross country flight, especially in the alps. So there was a high probability for an outlanding when attempting cross country however. As there is always a small chance that a glider gets damaged at outlanding, it might be better to skip such a day and wait patiently for better weather. Or pack the glider into the trailer and drive into better weather the day before.
Very well done video: kudos - Field seems quite narrow, and it appears your right wing hit ground at 9:22 after touch down, and not too far from the field edge. Given the overcast, I would not have ventured out a cross country at all. How long did it take to retrieve? I hope you invited the team for dinner....
The low right wing had me worried too. I'd also suggest to touch down with full up elevator (at stall speed) and not to fly the glider onto the ground with speed to spare. Bleeding off all your kinetic energy before touchdown can make a big difference, especially if the runway/field condition isn't known. The stick seems to be moving around the neutral postion during the entire flare and is only pulled back at the very end of the roll out when he steps on the wheel brake.
The team at DASSU (www.dassu.de/) have a wonderful attitude when it comes to landing out. I highly recommend going there to find out. It was my first cross border retrieve but worth every minute :)
@@rmay000 "get down-ites'
Wow, that's really a nice video, thanks! I'm still fearing for my first outlanding, it didn't happened to me yet, but I know it is somehow something that it's going to happen at some time. Looking at the backview at the final part of your video, at 9:22 it looks like your right wing was so close to hit the ground and the wall on the side, I'm guessing why you were not moving a little on the left, was it because of a small lateral slope of the field?
I remember the anxiousness I had about outlanding when I started going further from the field. It almost becomes an invisible barrier to fly beyond the gliding range of your airfield. Once you can break down that barrier you will suddenly feel so free. It’s so much more a mental game than a physical skill. I’ve probably done half my outlandings flying out of www.dassu.de/. They have a great philosophy about it.
I think the camera lens perspective makes the edge of the field look much closer than it was. Probably another 15m to the edge. The actual reason I pointed slightly right just before touching down was to prevent being on a direct path to the other glider already in the field.
I don't really undersrtand why you expect ANY lift under that sky
we found some 30 minutes prior and it was the same sky. I expect it was somewhere that we didn't look. I think you'd be amazed where you can find lift.
Beautiful video. Quick question, what's the rubber band beside the joystick for? and is that a parachute you're wearing?
Thanks! The lightish rubber band is part of the bathroom facilities that I bring with me. Yes I'm wearing a parachute. I've never flown a glider without one.
Hi thanks a fascinating video. I haven't done any gliding for decades but used to do a fair amount and the thought of landing out in the UK was scary enough for me. Question: Are you a UK citizen? And did you fly out of Germany and into Austria? If you did - don't know if you did - then what's the legal situation? Thanks and best wishes
Haha good question. It was an international flight from Germany to Austria. I’m a dual citizen so it ought not to be an issue but I don’t fly with a passport so either way it would be an interesting conversation. I think though, as it is a Schengen border, no one is watching.
I think I would never dear to fly over the mountains like that. It looks quite amazing, but it involves a lot of risk. I get why you chose that title.
But it’s also comforting to have very visible risk. Makes it feel much less risky when you can see it clearly. Try it, it’s a life changing experience.
well done and great educational video, which software do you use to project the track on the right side of the screen?
Thanks. That is www.sportstracklive.com - nice simple animation of a flight
@@the.flying.adventure Good to know!
9:13 the true sign of hard mental concentration: sticking your tongue out without knowing it ! 😂
Why you did not land at the Loij Airfield? Only 8km from your Outlanding Point... You could easily reachd the airfield from your hight! Think, you have to learn a lot about flght preparation.
No offence intended but I think you have a lot to learn about gliding. If you limit your thinking to only being able to land on registered airfields you'll miss out on most of what this sport has to offer you.
@@the.flying.adventure Everyone can and should learn! But before exposing yourself to the dangers of landing abroad, you should try to reach an airfield first. Outlandings are not done for fun, they should be the last resort to land safely! By the way, I fly gliders and motor planes for many years, I also know the area you flew in like the back of my hand, landing at this point was just unnecessary. Gut ab und Gut Land, how we say in Tyrol
LOIJ was initially in range but once we had reached the eastern end of our search at the Steinplatte, arrival at LOIJ would have been only +50m without considering the route around the terrain. I admit trading the field that we had for the trip to LOIJ was never a consideration but then once I have an anchor that is more than suitable I rather focus on the climb finding or outlanding than re-anchoring a field. Unless a big change in circumstances is discovered. I’ve never landed at LOIJ. Are they a friendly bunch to glider pilots who arrive unannounced? Good to know, maybe for next time!
@@the.flying.adventure LOIJ is not only one of the most beautiful airfields in the Alps, but also home to the best glider pilots in Austria. Maybe you also visit this wonderful place at the foot of the Wilder Kaiser
Can you tell me the software used for the 3d tracks and the nice vertical labels? Thank you.
yes that is www.sportstracklive.com/
I am so happy that you all survived this outlanding. You indeed were really close to death!
eh?
lucky I grew up in england and can still detect sarcasm
I fly paraglider myself, and can put it down on pretty small fields, so don't worry too much about it. You need a long, flat field though, with no obstacles. I wonder how you know which fields can be used. Do you have possible emergency landing fields indicated on the map?
Yes, I do envy the paragliders when it comes to putting down. I fly with xcsoar and have the landing options displayed that are catalogued at landout.streckenflug.at/
@@the.flying.adventure I once watched a hangglider and a sailplane come in to the same field where I landed my paraglider. Surprisingly it looked much easier for the sailplane. With the flaps out the sailplane needed less of the field to come to a stop. Of course with my paraglider, I needed much less than both of them, even with the high performance 2-liner that I was flying.
I certainly don't envy the hanglider pilots with their manual undercarrage. I suppose you can never forget to put it down 🤔
@@the.flying.adventureThere was another glider already standing there? Airfield?
Hi, I've landed out a LS-4, too! What is the great software you use to show the GPS positions?
did your outlanding experience make you ever want to fly again or never again?! The tool for the positions is www.sportstracklive.com/
@@the.flying.adventure i think i have maybe 20 outlandings now. Two of them are on my KZhead channel. I've had two outlandings just this year! If doing an outlanding would discourage me from soaring, i would have quit a decade ago.
Fine . Do you have listed fields like they have in France ?
It’s possible to download a catalog of landing fields from landewiesen.streckenflug.at/ and display in xcsoar. Covers most areas I fly.
How do the property owners react to you landing on their land unannounced and without permission, do you ever get any grief?
Yes sometimes they think you've set out to land in their field intentionally, especially when you are more than one glider. But once you explain the nature of gliding (and the insurance cover), they are usually cool about it.
Michael Jordan would approve at that tongue action during landing.
If it was an outstanding, why was another glider in the field?
Team flying. We both ended up finding nothing in the same valley. But that’s the exact same question the owner asked!
@@the.flying.adventure Makes sense.
Hi Next time try to reduce your circuit around the field Also try to use more your air brake to reach an higher angle of descent Priority 1 during outlanding: reduce at max to fly between 50m and 0m AGL The more you glide this way in this area and the more you have the chance to encounter an obstacle (air or ground) Also keep your wing horizontal maximum during the land and avoid hard touch. You were near a catastrophic turn around with the right Tip Happy fly Cheers
NO NO NO. This was nicely done!
It's like golf, you've got to play the course you're on. It’s good to have a few different techniques up your sleeve but also good to keep an open mind about what will work on a given day.
Germany!
It`s an easy game: no sun no lift.
I'm certain there was lift. We just didn't find it. 30 mins earlier it was the same sky and we did find it. That's the game, it's not so easy!
I do not like the title. Outlanding with a glider is a normal thing and nothing that has to be „survived“
Frankly, the weather reports and visible weather did not look too promising…
And we took the liberty to prove it 😅
A rather dumb title. Outlandings are normal, nothing to do with “survive”. Why not call it “How to outland safely in the Alps” or did you look for a click bait?
These are not "how to videos", these are just my experiences and opinions. I guess my videos aren't for everyone. Feel free to unsubscribe.
@@the.flying.adventure OK, Du hast meine Kritik nicht verstanden. Es geht mir nur um den irreführenden Titel, welcher nicht gerade zum Alpensegelfliegen animiert. Das Video finde ich sehr gut gemacht, da steckt viel Arbeit drin und dafür gab ich auch ein „Like“. Alles ist gut erklärt während dem Flug und die Landung im Feld war perfekt. Immer Happy Landing und viel Freude beim Fliegen und Videographieren.
I fully agree. Clickbait title ! Although the video is fine, the title is utterly wrong and not representative of the video or the situation.
Don't put your tongue between your teeth on landing! 😂
Haha. As you can see, I steer with my tongue 😛
puts the brain on sports mode
No hat, no thermals. Simple as that.
Bad weather: an outlanding should be expected. Nothing to "survive". Don´t like the lurid/sensational title :-(
On the lower end of the experience scale I think most of us are happy to survive a flight in the alps, whether it involves landing out or not.