Get Triangles Taste Better t-shirts here: cottonbureau.com/p/3V9S9Y/shi...
The fourth episode of The Recipe with Kenji and Deb is out, and it's all about Grilled Cheese. You can listen to it wherever you get your podcasts. Here's a link: play.prx.org/listen?ge=prx_49...
On the show we pull back the curtains on the recipe development process to show you how we arrive at our final recipes, and how you can make them your own.
00:00 - Cold Open
00:23 - Intro
00:47 - I Start My Grilled Cheese Recipe
01:47 - I Start Deb's Grilled Cheese Recipe
02:57 - Assembling and Cooking my Sandwich
05:06 - Cooking Deb's Sandwich
05:40 - A Grilled Cheese Disaster
05:43 - A JAM
07:53 - Cutting (Triangles Taste Better)
09:10 - Five Minutes of Extended Grilled Cheese Philosophy
Deb's Frico Grilled Cheese can be found here: smittenkitchen.com/2013/10/fr...
My grilled cheese recipe can be found on Serious Eats, here:
www.seriouseats.com/serious-e...
I also have a version with a frico crust in my book, The Food Lab, which you can order here: booklarder.com/search?q=kenji
This is my chorizo grilled cheese video, which is by far the most popular video on my channel: booklarder.com/search?q=kenji
This is one of my late night grilled cheese videos: • Late night grilled che...
Here's an old and awkwardly voice-overed video on grilled cheese: • How to Make a Better G...
Here's how I make a really good kimchi grilled cheese: • Late night kimchi gril...
Here's how to make an extra-gooey cheese pull: • How to get a perfect g...
Here are 14 tasty ways to shove things into your grilled cheese other than cheese: www.seriouseats.com/grilled-c...
I don't take sponsorships or do promotions of any kind, so joining my Patreon or purchasing my books is the best way to support my work. / kenjilopezalt
You can get any of my books, The Food Lab, The Wok and Every Night is Pizza Night) wherever books are sold, or you can order signed and personalized copies to be shipped anywhere in the world from here: booklarder.com/search?q=kenji
Had to include the shot of Ramsay's grilled cheese with two metres of solid cheese in there like geological strata
Gangster move lol. I only recognized it cause I watched uncle Roger’s video lol😂 food version of Tyler Durden’s film stunt haha
Kenjis shots at Gordon and Uncle Roger always make me chuckle 😂
that... was definitely a gangster move on Kenji's part... loved it
Haha! I wondered what that was. Thanks for the intel
Came here to find out whose tragic sandwich this was. Was not disappointed.
that Ramsay jab. I love it
I couldn’t figure out what that clip was 😂
I still cannot believe how a well saesoned, multi star cook like Ramsay can mess up a simple grilled cheese like that 😂 I even tried to recreate it with all the fancy hard cheeses (without the burned bread tho) and I still don't get it 😅..
@@oskar5222he recently said on his Mythical Kitchen last meals episode that he was being rushed to get the video filmed and was told by his editor that the footage looked better on camera, if I remember correctly, so they didn't make a second take.
5:34 Had to get that beautiful dig in 😂
@mythicalkitchen
Combining the emulsifying salts from the American singles to help emulsify the other cheeses is such a good trick that is slept on. You are a true master of the Kraft of grilled cheese sandwiches.
Kenji toasting up the inside of the sandwich is very validating. I know its not a revolution but it's been my technique for the last 15 years and knowing Kenji approves warms my little heart. I'll need to add that salting step next time.
very much agree with you, celilpz! Many of us have been doing our grilled cheese sandwiches in this way, long before Kenji! (I also, secretly, have always added many slices of almost fully cooked, extra-thick applewood smoked bacon to my Grilled Cheese Sandwich. It has been a football Sunday thing in our home for 50 years! Some family members also ask that I slip a few slices of jalapeno in their sandwich! Thanks for your comment! Happy Cooking !
While I am pro- triangle cutting your grilled cheese, that's not how I do it. I always have tomato soup with my grilled cheese, so I cut my grilled cheese into four "sandwich fingers" along the long side. I find the long shape is better for dipping in my soup with every bite. But if I ate a grilled cheese without a dipping soup, I would cut it into triangles.
Isn’t that pretty much how British people cut their toast into ‘soldiers’ for dipping into soft-boiled egg?
@@fordhouse8b Maybe? I'm not knowledgeable about British cooking, but it sounds like the same idea.
This is a genius move 👏
On the podcast, Deb said she does the same thing! I'd never thought to do that before.
💯
I find the "cheese melts into sourdough bread" problem is lessened if you toast the inner half of the bread first, much like you do with your version of grilled cheese. It essentially creates two crispy barriers for the cheese to melt within, rather than the cheese seeping into the sourdough itself
Toasting both sides is how I was taught to do it growing up. Kind of blew my mind when I talked about this with other people and realized it wasn't common!
Even if you toast it, sourdough tends to have a very open structure (i.e. larger holes) than many other bread types. I can see the toasting helping a little, but quite a bit of melty cheese is going to end up within the bread. I love sourdough, but it isn't the best for grilled cheese IMHO.
Compared to other bread types*
It still happens, and in general sourdough is just a really poor choice for grilled cheese. It doesn't conduct heat well so it's very liable to have the burnt outside not melted cheese inside problem, it's hard and crusty so you don't have the crunchy outside with a gooey inside, it has a tendency to scrape up your mouth which is unpleasant, and I tend to agree with Kenji that it's not a good flavor pair with melty cheeses. It can be a valid choice for a general hot sandwich, but grilled cheese and burgers are two things people try way too hard to make fancy. It should be simple. Compound butters and cheese mixes that still melt are the only real things you can change while still being a grilled cheese, and even there you can go too far and make it soemthing completely different.
@@Mezmorizorz Doing the inside first means you don't need to care about heat conduction through the bread. The cheese is going to be mostly melted already just from between sandwiched between the two hot sides. Sourdough also tastes fantastic with cheese, and it's not fancy -- literally the most basic and ancient version of leavened bread in existence. In other words, I could not possibly disagree more.
Adding some garlic powder to the pan along with the salt is my go to
Hm, I'd put it in the sandwich. Garlic burns very easily and gets bitter when it does.
@@xojasberry377 Yeah, this is the play. You gotta go light on it or the whole sandwich tastes like nothing but garlic, but just a little bit adds a real nice depth to it.
oohh I gotta try that!
I use the rosemary salt from that dude who can cook. Very tasty on a grilled cheese!
Sprinkle coarse garlic salt over the top at the end when it's out of the pan but still hot
I ran across a 4-yr-old Ragusea clip where a local chef used brioche buns, pressed with a brick, for grilled cheese and I've been loving that.
I like smashing the bread down after dropping in the pan, and then adding a lid for extra gooey cheese. There's so many great methods out there!
Agree! Brioche is my favorite grilled cheese bun! (I confess to maybe adding an additional hunk of salted butter to my bun before the grilling, and I also confess to the use of a bacon weight to flatten the brioche bun!). Happy Cooking!
Adam Ragusea?
Lay some chop stick train tracks on your plate and set your grilled cheese sandwich on them. That bottom side remains crispy, doesn't steam itself into soggy territory.
There are so many ways to make what seems like such a simple sandwich. The catch is that they are all deeply personal and people are passionate about THEIR version.
I love the cheese crust, but i like to fry the outside of my sandwich normally first and THEN fry the cheese onto it. Best of both worlds
"If you happen to have a Control Freak" Control Freak costs $1500. I do not happen to have one lol. Great video, can't wait to listen to the pod.
lol I looked it up and closed it very quickly after seeing the price
Kenji, you left out my all time favorite tip from you: hitting the warmed bread with a sliced piece of garlic. It’s why I like you tho. Never a right way to do something. Cheers.
Finally! Someone puts the butter in the pan. So much easier than buttering the bread. After the first flip I go into a 350-400 F oven for 3-4 minutes. Guarantees completely melted cheese. Anyone else?
I think this is correct. I do this same technique at work when people request a grilled cheese. Though my mom always buttered her bread before hitting the pan. I've found when you butter before you get a richer more butter friend thing, otherwise it's more of a true toast cause less fat on the bread overall
I disagree. You have proposed to dishonor the legend of the Grilled Cheese with some kind of baked cheese hybrid. If you are having a problem melting butter, check out the use of a weight (bricks from the landscape can work) and cook in pre-heated cast iron, IMO!
@@michaelsalmon6436 I prefer to call it the pan-roasted cheese sandwich. 😉 I suppose you could just put a lid on the skillet to replicate the bowl diners cover them with to ‘bake’ it. Don’t care for the weight, I like my sammy original sized. Cheers!
The king of all bread/cheese variations is Welsh Rarebit. Nothing comes close.
Specifically, Gary Rhodes recipe for rarebit. It's the absolute best
@@joshmore7175 ooooh I gotta check that out
Clarified butter is best for grilled cheese, it doesn't have the moisture so doesn't collapse the sandwich plus I infuse it with chili flakes and strain it for extra flavor.
I absolutely love your videos, you use evidence based practice and I’m so here for it. I have become a more efficient cook in a short time of watching how you navigate the kitchen and a more efficient cook will become a more prolific cook. You are an excellent teacher. I also appreciate that your videos don’t feel overproduced making them feel so approachable. No notes, great vids thanks for sharing!
You and Deb just elevated my grilled cheese game! Thanks!
My mother would make a factory line of grilled cheese for her 5 hungry hippos.. this leads to her cutting the sandwich into thirds. I continue this tradition even when cooking for myself. The steps are perfect for dipping into the tomato soup..!
I absolutely love this series paired with the podcast. Kenji and Serious Eats will always be my first stop for anything I want to cook and/or experiment with
Because of the podcast, I finally was able to make a turkey meatloaf (Deb's) that I liked. All previous ones have been failures. I never would have discovered it if it weren't for the podcast (though I added greens to mine which I loved).
The video I didn't know I needed, or deserved. Thank you Kenji, you are a god.
I started toasting the inside after I saw you grilled cheese recipe years ago. Makes a huge difference. I like using mayo on as apposed to butter but I do add a little butter for flavor.
I truly love how butter, bread and cheese as a combination becomes this complex for a video. So much thought, keep it up Kenji! Love it man
Sauerkraut on grilled cheese = my favorite
Honey and pickles is mine
Gotta be stir fried kimchi for me
@@joe8133 I was thinking pickles on the sourdough version when he said it needs a filling. Maybe sweet ones for that sandwich though I much prefer sour ones.
Yessir @@cheef825
@@cheef825 kimchi grilled cheese with some sharp cheddar mixed in is so good
My standard cheese toastie/grilled cheese is a hybrid of these two. It's pretty much Kenji's method most of the way (I'm shocked to learn that not everyone toasts the insides of the bread before putting the cheese in!!), but right when it's almost done: an extra little bit of butter, throw a load of fine grated parmesan in, bread back down. The parmesan crusts up in about 15 seconds and give you both the buttery crusty bread and the added cheese layer...
that double bite at the end got me so hype. loved the look of your grilled cheese!!
I like Blue Plate Mayo spread on the bread to be toasted instead of butter. Also some Italian grated cheese on the outside to give that additional contrast and umami. Love seeing variations to enlighten a simple sandwich to greater heights. Thank you!
Toasting the inside!?! Salt in the pan!?! What black magic and wizardry is this? Just tried and wow, I didn't think the humble cheese toasted sandwich could be improved by such a margin. Love it.
There’s a great opportunity to combine two great methods. I’ve been doing the crust on the outside for a few years. I toast on one side, flip, add cheese to the toasted side, flip, add cheese, flip. I love the idea of toasting both sides of the bread. Next level!
Both look delicious!
Really cool how there are new tips and tricks to learn about something even as simple as a grilled cheese. We're definitely going to try salting the pan and the inner fry next time we make ours!
I agree with your Point of Entry
omg yes! I ''discovered'' toasting the inside of my grilled cheese and it's a game changer. So much crisps.
Yep, I'm going to do that from now on. I put a little mayonnaise on the inside, too. Maybe that's another bad habit.
My best grilled cheese is made in my air fryer. Once I made a bad one as an experiment, then got the time and temperature adjusted correctly, they come out perfect every time.
My wife was baking bread at Whole Foods for a bit and she would bring home a fresh loaf of Semolina bread with the sesame seeds on top and sliced thick. I'd use it to make us grilled cheese on the flat top with american cheese, bacon and fresh grilled tomato slices. Tastes so good enjoying it out back on a cool fall evening, it's like a creamy tomato soup in sandwich form. mmmmmm...
Triangles always taste better
Excellent song, excellent timing !
Ever since I was a kid, I've been adding parmesan (from the can) to the outside (after buttering) in order to get the crispy bits on the outside, and I'll often add room temp mustard (to the inside) if I'm wanting a bit more tang
Hi Kenji! I am a big fan of your great work on seriouseats! Congrats on your success. Well deserved! I am happy to subscribe to your channel. Happy Cooking!
If I'm doing it with regular sandwich bread, I microwave the assembled sandwich ~20 seconds before buttering or grilling it. The rehydrated starches make the bread chewier at the end, and it helps the cheese get a head start at melting. Then, grill it to get a hard, crunchy surface. The combination of crunchy surface with chewy bread is great. I also do this when making toast.
You have to cut the sandwich in half diagonally, however, you also should cut it at a 45 degree angle on the way down. This exposes more of the sandwich interior and exposes the innards more. It gives the impression of more meat on the sandwich if there is any. Learned this from Chef John who learned it from Bobby Flay.
Every time I cut a sandwich, I hear you saying, “triangles taste better,” in my head.
Both sandwiches look amazing. Got to try them both.
Love the tat btw! Reminds me of my years in 日本. My favorite tree of all time 💛
Yummmm…. Grilled cheese for breakfast! Purrrrrfect. I’ll open it up and add a little slaw to mine once it’s all done. I like a bit of crunchy freshness mingled with the melted cheese (cheddar + Swiss + ..) Thanks for all these additional tips. That cheese on the outside looks awesome! 👍 (will cut into triangles :))
Totally agree on diagonal cut. Also, American cheese slice with other cheeses is my go to! From now on, I will need to try this song…love it and now will also be my grilled cheese song
Ramsay will never live that grilled cheese down.
I'm a huge fan of grated cheese for a riff on the grilled cheese sandwich. I think a 3-4 cheese blend is the way to go. YUM, just yum!
I’m so proud of myself. I love a grilled cheese and it was the one thing we always had ingredients for when I was a kid. I came to my perfected grilled cheese and it’s pretty much exactly the same as Kenji’s. Salt the outside, toast both sides, different types of cheese but one is always American. Cut into triangles.
The best grilled cheese I ever had was in Ann Arbor, MI. There used to be a little neighborhood market that carried just the absolute basic groceries, candy for the kids in the local school, and in the back, they made lunches and dinners to go. They used soft white bread from Zingerman's Bakehouse, I don't know what kind of cheese, and you could have it with or without tomato slices. I always picked with the tomato. Then one day, I asked if they had any greens they could put on it. I was thinking something like arugula. But since I said "greens" and they often cooked Swiss chard and kale for some of their other dishes, they put them on the sandwich. I would have never thought of that, but it was SO GOOD that from then on that's how I ordered it!!
I recently started mixing a bit of pesto and some dried jalapeno flakes into my cheese mixture. It's amazing.
GREAT tip about the salt! I'm in Seattle too!!!
I have been doing kenji’s recipe without knowing it was his. I feel validated ❤
Grilled Cheese with caramelized onion and pickles cut into triangles is my favorite
Sounds yummy!
Caramelized onion (or even just raw sweet red onion) always puts it over the top, just the perfect balance for the salty cheese.
I made a sourdough grilled cheese with spiral ham last night, A+. 1 slice velveeta, 1 slice swiss with plenty of mayo on the inside to keep everything loose. Dipped in the standard campbells tomato soup.
For those who don't know, frico is a traditional dish from a North-Italian region at the border with Slovenia. It's similar to a rosti, and it's made with high fat cheese, usually Montasio. I like Deb's idea of using the name frico for this cheese crust effect on the sandwich. In fact I wonder if Montasio could actually be the best cheese to use for Deb's recipe. And just like the actual frico, I agree that onions would be a great addition.
I never thought I'd see a "recipe" for grilled cheese! I'm making one now, trying your double-toasting method. I often use the "frico crust" method, but I put the cheese in the pan AFTER grilling the bread, so it isn't lacking the toasted flavor. The frico is just the final step.
Kenji, first of all I am chuffed that you and Deb went with Radiotopia for your podcast. Second, like you, I've been using a variety of cheeses in grilled cheese for the last 40 years because it makes the flavour so much more interesting. A bit of bleu is particularly intriguing. I was kinda shocked you gave Deb such a hard time for cutting her sandwich the way she wanted since you are always the voice of doing it the way that suits the person (even though I'm guilty of iconoclasm, too, and as Chef John says, "pointy food tastes better"). Anyway, thanks so much for sharing what you have learned--it has made me a better cook and a better person, too.
These videos make want kitchen things i never knew i needed. First a salt cellar and now a butter bowl with a knife spoon thing
Another great video. My wife is the same as Deb; cut the sandwich across. So... I do exactly what you did, I cut her sandwich across and mine diagonally. I attribute her view to being born and raised in Texas.
Cutting the sandwich on the bias is the best. In addition, a good pairing with cheese is mustard. Tomato soup and grilled cheese sandwiches are the ideal match. Cheers! 👍🏻👍🏻✌️
I sprinkle salt and MSG which is awesome. I also think toasting both sides of the bread is key. Growing up I always cut my grilled cheese like Deb because it can make it a little easier to get a good dip/scoop of soup.
I laughed out loud alone in my kitchen when Kenji whipped out ELTON AND GEORGE to time his cook
Haha he triggered my HomePod 3 times during this!
chef john's inside out grilled cheese got me through many summers of babysitting a bunch of little kids. will try this one out!
New song in my cooking playlist 🎉
Toasting the inside is brilliant! I add an ever so tiny schmear(literately 2 drops) of yellow mustard to one side of my bread. That little bit of acidity and spice seems to balance out the richness of the cheese and butter.
I do a little frico on my grilled cheese, but I do it when the base sandwich is almost done, i.e. the bread on both sides is toasted and the cheese inside has started to melt. And I use parm for it. Do love a good sourdough for grilled cheese.
I like all grilled cheese, but favorite bread is shokupan. When I make a loaf we always have grilled cheese and egg salad sandos.
We all saw that Kenji, that shot at Gordon classic LOL always a wonderful video :)
Our go to method: Any kind of bread (as long as it is cut thin) Butter in the pan A little mayo inside on both sides Sharp cheddar slices Crisp apple slices (not necessarily pealed) under the cheese Cut as a triangle Grill on first side Add more butter, flip and finish Yum I will try grilling the insides of the bread next time.
Angle all the way!!
I season my butter with Italian seasoning prior then spread on the bread. So money with tomato soup 👌
My dad always made grilled cheese and peanut butter sandwiches growing up. Still my favorite unlikely combo.
Whenever I've made a cheese crust, I've toasted the bread with butter/mayo like normal and on flip I'll add the cheese to the pan so the already toasted side gets an additional layer of cheese, if that makes sense. Requires a few more flips, but get the best of both worlds. That being said, I agree with you about the greasiness and it's not my preferred way, but good once and a while!
"You're not eating grilled cheese for your health" Yep! I've learned a couple of things to try for my next grilled cheese. I will still always add a thin slice of onion to my grilled cheese sammies.
Add a shmear of raspberry jam to the inside and CHEF'S KISS!! ❤
You are right on the angle cut
both look super yummy. i am a big fan of the cheese crust but with debs miss the outer toasted layer. thus i kinda make kenjis version and after flipping it put a bit of grated cheese next to it in the pan to after toasted both sides pick up the crusty cheese with the top of it.
I love grilled cheese triangles!
Team Triangle for sure. Even before I was onboard with the triangle and cut in rectangular halves, it was always to make long rectangles, not short ones!
I butter the bread first like Deb's but I use I little trick to make it a bit easier; Butter the bread and then lay each slice on top of each other with the buttered sides touching each other. Pop the cheese on the top slice and then when it's time to put it in the pan, lift the top slice off, put it in the pan and then put the remaining slice on top of the slice in the pan. That way they're both buttered when they go in.
Just found your channel and love it! I was looking for a good a Japanese curry recipe and found it, thanks to you 🙏🏻. Any chance you could tell me what kind of go pro etc you’re using to film yourself cooking? I need a good camera for some overhead footage.
Bros cheese geometry when placing those slices was immaculate. The calculations for maximal cheese diversity per bite but maintaining an even amount of cheese in every bite
For me, I love using a bag of shredded Mexican mix cheese. It always turns out great.
I'm so glad that I'm not the only freako to put cheese on the outside as well! My personal choice for how to do it is to toast the bread a bit on both sides, THEN add the cheddar and toast both sides. I also like to use a microplane for the cheddar, it melts so easily that I sometimes even manage to get a pretty decent cheese pull! Another way I get past the greasy problem is an idea I picked up from my boyfriend, you make the grilled cheese like normal but then cut it into bite-sized chunks (I do 3 cuts in both directions for generic grocery store sandwich bread for 16 total bits) and dump them all into a bowl of tomato soup like croutons! I've seen some takes that you should give them a bake in the oven to get a real crunchy crouton experience, but I think at that point we're too far from how simple and easy a grilled cheese is supposed to be. Great video though, I'll definitely have to try salting my pan and toasting both sides! It DOES always feel a bit under-seasoned, and flaky salt is always a nice easy way to get some _heterogeneity_ in there
I grate my Tillamook Cheddar from the block. Somewhere I heard some bagged shredded has a coating so it doesn’t stick together. I find the fresher newly grated cheese melts batter. I also think it tastes better too. I cut mine in the half shortest dimension.
I love the classic bacon and heirloom tomato in my grilled cheese with a pickle. Absolute peak cheese for grilled cheese is Cooper Sharp (it's a blended American and Cheddar combo)
Aldi has a creme de brie spreadable cheese that I used for a grilled cheese last night with cheddar and provolone. It was so good.
I really enjoy the way you’re so ‘au natural’ like I’m there
Thank you for your lovely compliment. I hope my recipe was able to help you in your cooking.
I like using sourdough but I also include tomato and bacon. I like your reasons for cutting into triangles.
I love salting the butter. It tastes great when you’re making eggs too. I need to try the frico and toast the inside ideas.
Thank you for your lovely compliment. I hope my recipe was able to help you in your cooking.
Definitely need an acute angle for dipping into hot sauce or tomato soup. For small hands, cut into a parallelogram.
I used to always cut them in half but since I heard you say to cut them on an angle I'll never go back, imo the most important factor in the angled cut is a more a satisfying topping to crust/bread ratio with each bite. Presentation is also better (larger cheese pulls like you pointed out).
Definitely an angle fan!!!
8:40 Love the sound effects xD
I would be curious to see how these taste with mayo used in place of butter...Alton Brown method...I've been doing bread with mayo instead of butter to grill for a few years now and I really think it's superior. Good browning and salt flavors.
Mayo gives the better browning and crunch but butter gives a better flavor. I spread a thin cover of Mayo onto the exterior and then do butter in a pan.
We used to use diluted mayo instead of butter on our grilled cheese food truck. Better browning, same unctuous texture as butter.
Oooh. I like the idea of toasting the inside. I use olive oil mayo instead of butter on the outside of my bread. It makes a crisper crust, and adds a nice bit of zing to it.
I have been making grilled cheese with the frico crust for a while now and I've found there is no need to skip toasting the outside of the bread. You can simply toast the outside and then create the frico crust because it takes very little time.