Christopher Hitchens and Tariq Ramadan Debate: Is Islam a Religion of Peace?
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Christopher Hitchens and Tariq Ramadan Debate: Is Islam a Religion of Peace? Moderated by Laurie Goodsteing, October 5, 2010 at 92Y.
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Simple question. In how many countries with a Muslim majority would this debate even be allowed?
1 maybe
Not many, if any, but we're having it for them. The power of technology means that anyone can access it if they really want. Many don't, but some do. The power of education is slow and can only chip away at the forces of religion but eventually it works.
@@IusedtohaveausernameIliked Incidentally, this is actually why many of their holy texts immediately teach them technophobia. Anything to keep them ignorant.
zero
Simple answer too, In Indonesia (I origin from here) moslem more 200 million ppl , malaysia as well nothing new to do inter religion discussion or debate like this in fun, respect and friendly environment
If you have to debate whether a religion is peaceful, it’s probably not peaceful…
Is that a quote from someone, if not I think you have a quote there :D
More like some people want it to seem violent
This reasoning seems to imply that the moment somebody calls for a debate they automatically win.
instead of "probably" I'd use "most likely"
@@Herodotus77 Yeah but how many debates have you seen about whether the Jains have a peaceful religion or not?
Does anyone else wish that we had Christopher Hitchens right now? What an articulate thinker.
I miss Hitchens, he was brilliant
I get the sentiment, but I think it's misguided. If you like a speaker/whatever so much, then try and emulate him. The same goes for other popular historical figures.
we still have alex o conner and genetically modified skeptic😊
Not really....he supported the immoral lie and Iraq war that killed millions.
@@thomasbayer1843what's misguided about saying "that person's mix of experiences and intellect would be valuable right now." Emulating someone doesn't bring that person back to life, lol - it just brings your perspective into focus.
Having watched all these debates at the time, it's great to see them getting a fresh audience over a decade later. Watching him get ill and die in real time was horrendous, he was a bit of hero of mine at the time. What was staggering was how he was able to maintain his whit, charm, humour and immense rhetorical skills right up to the end. He was a shadow of his former self physically, but the mind was still extraordinary.
Even in death he’s a beacon of intellectuality that’s inspiring young people like myself to do better everyday. It staggers the mind to think that most of what he put forth in his lifetime still rings true. Hitchens is the man.
I too grew up as a slightly younger contemporary of Hitch. And every time his odious brother opens his mouth, or pens his latest vitriol, apologia or misplaced belief he was a fraction of his sibling - I lament the death of the wrong Hitchins.
@@rick-potts Have you by any chance seen the first hitchens vs hitchens debate from 99? I too have long held a deep dislike for Peter and was surprised to see, he does indeed have a sense of humour. It's one of the few videos of Peter in which didn't leave me with a dull ache in my jaw.
Indeed. What's great about this debate is how even his Muslim opponent can't help but laugh or smile at several points in response to Hitchens' charismatic points.
So true.@@rick-potts
Islam is so peaceful that christopher hitchens cant roam freely in a islamic country but Mr Ramadan can freely exist in any Christian majority country....
It's peaceful when you stay tf off their land. Why does he need to freely roam a land he doesn't belong in?
What, you think Muslims can freely live in Israel? Are you riding a short bus rn?
@@lolmanyeah1 muslims dont belong in us uk you mean
@@lolmanyeah1yeah tbf that's a very good point
Muslims deserve ridicule for following a delusional pedophile . End of story
I respect the fact that when Hitchens knew he was on borrowed time, he used it to make as many public appearances as possible within the limits of his health to voice his opposition to religious fanaticism, instead of just resting and spending time with his family and friends. He was at the top of his form until the very end, and that's the best tribute possible to him.
Agreed, well said.
Only to discover that he was wasting his time debating a fake prophet, double-faced serial rapist like Ramadan.
@@honeybabou6119 Whoa, dial it down there, Babou. I think that Tariq is extremely unctuous and dishonest here in his arguments, but if you are going to accuse him of being a serial rapist, can you post links to news articles or accusations by former victims of his alleged assaults? That's a fair request, isn't it?
@Greg Brown No problem. I'm French and Ramadan is very famous there so his legal troubles were/are a very big thing.
@@honeybabou6119 Nah it's far from a waste of time. Not only is this guy a monster, he's a monster who can't even fake a coherent worldview. Both his person and his ideas are repudiated, and I think that is a more complete victory.
When Hitchens says "Demands that you believe the impossible do not lead to peaceful outcomes.”, he is offering a tidy version of Voltaire who once said "Anyone who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.”
Citing Turkey as a Muslim country liberalizing has aged like milk.
10 years later, Mr. Hitchens was and is Right
Ramadan was prosecuted in 2018 in Switzerland for multiple rapes. In 2023 total was 5. He is finish
well they turned out to be the less barbaric side ...by far
@@WilliamTyndale007lol not like Israel has a moral leg to stand on
@@Maxibo234thats called a deflection.
@@Maxibo234you must be an abdool
Tariq Ramadan's Example of Turkey as a secular democracy aged horribly.
unfortunately
Anything related to religion ages horribly.
@@WVK23 touché. Religion talks the most about "GOD", but produces the most ungodly societies.
Turkey still is a secular democracy what are you babbling about.
@@izzomoses7994 the more Islamist turkey becomes the more it slips down. 2012- 88 in democratic index, now at 110. It's now hoping to showcase itself as the leader of the islamic state. Wikipedia remains banned...press has very limited freedom, 'insulting erdogan' amounts to almost blasphemy...Thousands are in jail or on trial for bogus terrorism charges...Turkey would rate at the very last in democratic index, yet some people would say it's 'still a democracy'. Religion poisons everything especially monotheisms.
Mr Ramadan says many Muslims are people of peace. He never tries to show that Islam is a religion of peace.
It is not , is your comment peaceful????
@@laminoor566what 💀💀
@@laminoor566 The commenter is pointing out the hypocrisy of Mr. Ramadan's conjecture, in the realm of actions speak louder than ancient written words.
The true form of Islam is to act kind. Most moslems forget about a word 'Akhlak' that means good attitude. This.. is, actually, the main Mohammad message. But, many of them seems to forgetting it and too focused on sins/worship issues. And not about social relationship between individuals. Islam, even in it's communal form, actually very individual based religion. I mean, you need to fix yourself first before looking outside. Judging, prejudice, and in this case... Feeling 'holier' than others is also a sin.
Why do muslims keep assuming their religion existed before Christianity 😂 This liar sneaked it in at 46:00 and then covered it by other issues which is often their Dawah tactics when debating for their religion of lies.
Mr.Hitchens already warn us since 10 years ago,..but many still asleep until now.
10 years ago is still 20-30 years too late.
bloody west shame on you and this bullshit piece aka hitchens has advocted for destruction of whole country IRAQ . while debating either islam is peaceful or not you people have shown your true face as power hungary nihilistic individuals who have long history of violence killing 135 million red indians than 80 million in ww2 and now 5 million+ in post 9 11 wars and presently in gaza...how dare you to judge us on peace you dont deserve to sit with us....
That’s what makes me the most frustrated. This man warned us so much, but people are too ignorant. See universities right now and the protests. Hitchens wouldn’t be happy at all
Guys, don't worry about losing Hitchens. I found him only a few months ago and he's changed my worldview and I'd say my life. Even in death, he's doing more for me than many who are alive. What is death when you truly lived? Love from Nigeria.
It's weird when you find anybody that makes an influence on you and then you find out they are dead, I went through the same thing with Hitchens. It honestly feels like he could still be alive just based on the fact that I probably would never see him anyways
His thoughts,his books and audiobooks, his utter greatness and fierce intellect will live forever more.... Lenore (I am fading here,the raven from Edgar Allan Poe narrated by Christopher Lee on KZhead is absolutely necessary to hear!) CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS RIP AND MAY EVERYONE SPREAD THE WORD AND KNOWLEDGE WHICH IS ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL IN THESE VERY CHALLENGING TIMES!!!!
Ex-Muslim antitheist here from Pakistan. I left this evil 7th century cult in 2016. One of the best decisions of my life. Glad I'm not part of this evil and barbaric cult anymore
Very well written Eja and Christopher thanks you post hum and surely would have been touched by the gratitude for your absolute kindness and yes, his ideas and his fierce intellect will live forever !!!
@@christophervolk6087 that was undoubtedly his strength,no doubt about that!!!your voice and many others totally reflects his point of view,he surely would have been touched by all this kindness because Christopher was absolutely kind in the first place without any political attachment,no, just being genuine and smart (as in knowledge)!!! he's surely missed but by no means forgotten!!!!⛅
Christopher Hitchens was a brilliant man, sorely missed
We miss you Hitch
Man do we need him today, RIP Chris ❤️
I think he would be both horrified and saddened if he was still around today as our governments have welcomed this cult and sold us all down the river.
bloody west shame on you and this bullshit piece aka hitchens has advocted for destruction of whole country IRAQ . while debating either islam is peaceful or not you people have shown your true face as power hungary nihilistic individuals who have long history of violence killing 135 million red indians than 80 million in ww2 and now 5 million+ in post 9 11 wars and presently in gaza...how dare you to judge us on peace you dont deserve to sit with us....
He'd have been mocked and ridiculed to the point normies see his name and cringe. Doesn't matter how smart you are or how reasonable your logic is, the media controls who see's it and how they see it.
I forgot who said it, but: "If you think life after this one is so much better, then why are you wearing a seatbelt?"
Tariq is an expert at talking without actually saying anything.
@truth searcher Tariq is the master of incoherence and bullshit.
He was found guilty in multiple charges of rape, some against minors
Exactly. He and his type, are so frustrating.
Very typical of religious folks
@@reddevil211287 His "type" are muslims. Watch ANY muslim apologists, even the lauded Hijab. It's pure rhetoric, with varying degrees of sophistication, very highly observable in Hijab's case, but pure rhetoric and no substance. It is the appeal to idiocy and ignorance fallacy that all religious apologists use in makign a point. And it makes me fume
"Turkey is on it's way to women rights and out of theocracy“ That aged well
Omega oof
sigh
We're one of the first countries that gave women rights to be chosen as presidents.They may continue slandering us,but the fact is clear.
@@myk1137 that was before erdogan buddy. Turkey and Iran both share similarities in that they where pretty progressive until the violent troglodytes took over. Iran seems like it could come back anytime now though. Idk about turkey.
@@myk1137 pretty sad things have devolved.
I just realised this episode is over 10yrs old!!!! We knew about this 10years already, still 💯 relevant, wow, legend
Christopher is a genius taken far too soon.
In other 10 years we’ll probably be making comments about it being 20yrs old yet, politically, the landscape is still unchanged
This was 10 years ago. And we are still “debating” it. And it’s harder to debate it now. Islam isn’t a religion of peace, based on what I heard 10 years ago and NOW.
Ramadan’s comment about a moderate Turkey did not age well
ikr
@NazTdawg UK abdools? u must be a CP's crybaby fan. watch CP busted: kzhead.info/sun/gc2EnJujjXh_lqc/bejne.html
Nor did Tariq's reputation as a scholar
Turkey's going just fine as it is. It's biggest problem is it's economy.
@@muhammadedwards8425 may Allah help erdogan and imran fix their country's economies. ameen.
Eight adult Muslim women have filed rape charges against Tariq Ramadan. It takes extraordinary courage for a Muslim female to accuse her rapist. Her culture and religion blame her for her own sexual assault. I wonder how many other victims have remained silent.
u have a source for that?
@@TheOneTrue_SadmanGoogle…
@@TheOneTrue_Sadman It's all there on the Wikipedia page about Tariq Ramadan. And you can't say it some kind of Islamophobic attack. Muslim women filed the charges. Tariq's defense against the rape charges is that it was consensual sex. That makes eight adultery charges from a expert on islam.
@@annegreengables6367 Which means 8 woman can loose their lives.
@@TheOneTrue_Sadman"and in October 2020, Ramadan was formally charged with raping a fifth woman." Wikipedia source: Tariq Ramadan visé par une cinquième mise en examen pour viol". Le Monde.fr (in French). 23 October 2020. Archived from the original on 24 October 2020. Retrieved 24 October 2020.
Thank you Christopher for your elucidation! Many years ago - you knew about the danger for the free world.
This debate aged so well.
It didn't, Hitchens point of view aged well and thats not a good thing for the west
Even battling cancer, Hitch still thinks on his feet and demonstrates his vast knowledge and towering intellect. Miss you Hitch.
He was always intellectually shallow and retarded. A bully who should be laughed at and be thrown into the dustbin of History where he belongs.
@@TheEverFreeKing 🤣🤣🤣 so Ramadan speaks a bunch of gibberish, asks you to ignore evidence and you eat it up because his "argument" agrees with your skewed and narrow world view. Talk about shallow and laughable 🤣🤣🤣
The old Islamophobe and misogynist Hitchens.
@@akashsom8357 The logic can only be understood by logical people. I don't guess your very logical. BTW, I don't waste time watching flies on garbage cans. Sounds like a hobby for you.
I miss him too, terribly.
How does one identify a religion of peace ? It’s extreme practitioners would be extremely peaceful.
@ali bazzi may I ask. I've seen some muslims claiming that "islamic states" as in incorporating islam into the laws are actually not what islam aspires to have (A journalist, Mehdi Hassan wrote about it). Do you agree with that? To what extent is shariah law a part of Islam? Does "islamic type of government" exist in Quran at all?
@@piratassarajevo4293 Tbh most muslims aren't taught enough about their religion. I am actually studying Fiqh (islamic jurisprudence) in Cape Town, S. Africa. Most muslims are not middle-easterners. Point being that Islam is both a world wide religion and it has a history that rivals any of the older religions in complexity. I'm going to say some things and I will elaborate on each that anyone wants more information on. Although there were many Muslim countries, none were Islamic states. There is misunderstanding on the meaning of sharia, it is not Islamic law. Sharia is a metaphorical description that encompasses how a Muslim should live their lives. Muslims are okay with western laws, until in stops us from expressing our faith and love of God The Quran was not a comprehensive book. Similarly in physics, in Islamic theology it's as if the content is purposefully incomplete. It is implied that although there is a good path, the Quran doesn't touch on why's, how's and what's about the stuff it says. Not because there aren't reasons but because it's our Jeehad to figure it out Meaning that, as of now any muslim Scholar House does not lay claim to having a universal Sharia or even Fiqh
@@muhammadedwards8425 so in reality, it's better to keep the state secular (even when the majority is muslim) since islam doesnt really stipulate how the government+law should be established? And shariah is the product of cultures+different interpretations rather than a fixed guideline from quran....am I understanding it correctly?
@@saadidrissi3181 Firstly, Sharia literally means the straightest path to a source of fresh water. It is metaphorical for 'the way one should live their life'. And there is no agreed upon Sharia, the way people use the word now. Secondly, I mentioned most muslims don't know enough about the history of the practitioners of Islam and about Islamic concepts in general. Therefore, using their opinions on law is not a indicator of the religion itself. Also contrary to the opinions of those muslims, Islamic scholars have a long tradition of legal pluralism. Meaning different laws apply to different groups in society. Christendom follows Christian law etc. until two groups are involved. I think many muslims might be more open with this idea if they knew about their history Lastly, I mentioned metaphorical basis', the Quran is not a scientific book of miracles. No muslim scholar of the Quran who does his work would believe that because that does not correlate with the reasoning for it being revealed
l don't think any religion is totally peaceful. Sorry, there is one, Jainism.
A religion that has an aim to convert the entire world to follow Islam only says how peaceful it is. This claim alone is says it’s lack of respect for all non believers
Interesting how Tariq Ramadan starts off by equivocating and saying that the question of peace is the wrong question. Im not an expert but the idea of peace (not killing each other) is not complicated.
Professor Ramadam sounds like a defense attorney trying to save a guilty man from being executed.
And knows he is gonna loose.
😂 and even before the verdict is read deep down he doesn't care what the judge thinks.
Such a good analogy 😂
Lmao
Before going to prison for rape.
Ramadan refuses to directly answer questions. He just goes on and on and completely avoids the question.
Which question ? I can give you the answer.
@J what are talking about? Can you be clear please and say exactly what you want to say ?
@J Ramadhan is a brother in humanity and we share the same belief.
As would you if you had to defend failed & stagnating societies blinded by medieval beliefs.
@@BeppeRGDL true
Christopher Hitchens was like family…… Your sorely missed Sir !!
Mr Hitchens. May you RIP. Your wisdom is just as relevant today as it was then. Will we ever learn?
"Demands that you believe the impossible, do not lead to peaceful outcome." Damn, that's a strong line.
the religion does not make these demands. its human custodians do that. religion neither good or bad. rather, it is both. evil is necessary to measure good - and vica versa.
No one said Religion is peaceful there😀
@@TheAdamwest29 why is religion good and bad, who told you that, and why should I believe it, where is the proof? People are good and bad, it has nothing to do with religion. Religion is a weapon for mass manipulation, there is no proof of any religious claims has ever happened.
@@MrScunna Can't you accept them as they are
@@TheAdamwest29 "the religion does not make these demands. its human custodians do that" There is no religion outside the minds of humans.
What a giant of a man! You will be sorely missed, Mr. Hitchens.
Exactly!!!....A True Voice of Reason, and Logic....in a chaotic world
@@RomanAquilaNothing logical at all about Christopher, a low IQ moron.
He is gone, but do not despair. Uphold the mantle. It is a many-arrowed burden but those of us that bear it know the weightlessness of reason despite our armor. Tread forth in his name.
I am crying now literaiiy. He truly is missed. Oh Hitchins the voice of reason.
Yes.
What a great intellectual and debater why i found you so late really world is missing you.🙏
A devote Christian here, it's funny how I would rather side with an atheist than a Muslim.
Will Smith's Oscar slap may have been heard around the world, but the Hitch slap is heard from beyond the grave. RIP.
"Hitch Slap" LMAO 🤣🤣😂😂
@@Dark_Force_Of_Wishes search for _Hitch Slap_ on KZhead. Hours of entertainment!
@@magnetiktrax That's Assault. Hitchens Assaulted People By Slapping Them.
Hope it reaches and resounds the nut in the grave dead somewhere in the middle east.
@@Dark_Force_Of_Wishes You're assaulting people online with your stupidity. Rather have a HitchSlap.
When Ramadan was asked about Sharia Law, he answered with a whole lot of nothing.
His entire performance was _A whole lot of nothing._ His best defense was addressed before he even said it, when Hitchens stayed up front that claiming the “bad” Muslims, ARENT _real Muslims._ They misread the text and are practicing “anti-Islam” he claimed. In reality, if you read the Quran, Sira, and Hadiths, you will with absolute certainty quickly find conscription to murder or subjugate other humans.
imagine my surprise
Did ramadan really say it's a tiny minority of clerics that believe in the death penalty for homosexuality, apostasy, etc? I'd love to see this supported with facts. Once again, the religion is peaceful. It's just that all of these Muslim majority countries keep getting it wrong somehow.
@@scr3am811 your reference doesn't exist, can you provide a link so we can verify your claims?
@@scr3am811 still waiting for you to provide a link, and what does it say in the Qur'an about apostasy?
I feel like Tariq Ramadan doesn’t actually believe in his own rhetoric. He is simply taking a contrary stance and bending his words for the sake of attempting to gain the upper hand. Which he is unsuccessful in doing. Edit: Have since read about Ramadan’s extra-curricular shenanigans. Undermines his credibility further
I agree. The more you pay attention, the more you realise what a snake he is. He is very good at implying, in a very sophisticated way, that his opponent is racist and Islamophobic. See 1:14:15. He refuses to answer the question and constantly straw-mans arguments. At one point he said that Muslims can't have progressive societies because they are under authoritarian rule, and then immediately accuses Hitch of an "essentialist" view (in other words, a veiled accusation of Western bigotry) and says "don't say that Muslims can't have a progressive society." He is so dishonest.
I truly loved this man and prayed for him everyday. I missed my chance to meet him in the early 2000s. My daughter obtained his book and he signed it. A treasure of mine. His non belief didn't make me an unbeliever. I will always admire this man!
So in your words he is burning in hell
Christopher hitchens (peace be upon him) was an absolute gem to society. Forever missed.
may the gods feed him honey!
Worms are upon him...but i see your point!!!
What He is eating is sweet alright, sweet to those who he abused and accused of wrongdoing.
He talked rubbish.
No, you just couldn't understand him.
"Islam preeches separation between state and religion" Dude... please... just... no...
"Tariq Ramadan literally pounced on me like a wild beast," says Henda Ayari kzhead.info/sun/etKndt1orHibZn0/bejne.html
⁹⁹⁹⁹⁹⁹⁹[9⁹⁹⁹[[9[⁹⁹⁹99⁹⁹⁹[[⁹⁹⁹⁹⁹⁹⁹[[⁹99⁹⁹⁹⁹[[99⁹999[po""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" ccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccfccccccccccccccccc ccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc cccccccc"cccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc"ccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccfcccccccc ccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc 5AM said the is55555ccc"ctytyt5t5555555555
@@glenncolotti3670 aaaaaaahammmmm
@@glenncolotti3670 Tariq Ramadan: The rock star scholar and the rape claims - BBC News kzhead.info/sun/jat8n9F-nYuhi5E/bejne.html
@@glenncolotti3670 "Tariq Ramadan literally pounced on me like a wild beast," says Henda Ayari kzhead.info/sun/etKndt1orHibZn0/bejne.html Further investigation. Tariq Ramadan: the devil in the body - May 23, 2019 (France 2) kzhead.info/sun/jaaPlcmwbWePfWw/bejne.html Tariq Ramadan: ex-partner testifies and denounces "moral violence" kzhead.info/sun/lq1uqqygpWibpGw/bejne.html Tariq Ramadan: The rock star scholar and the rape claims - BBC News kzhead.info/sun/jat8n9F-nYuhi5E/bejne.html Tariq Ramadan and variable geometry "sodomy" kzhead.info/sun/ipVwgZSDr2KXmoU/bejne.html ..........
If you shout the phrase "god is great" as loud as you can, you might get some weird looks. If you shout the phrase "allahu akbar" as loud as you can, people duck and run for cover. That alone says a great deal.
Deserves more likes. This is the fundamental pro lem, islamic text(s) endorse killing.
Hitchens WON this debate hands down! Brilliant man!
The moral high ground is readily available to any religion that doesn’t support roving bands of state sponsored serial killers to murder their wives,daughters and sons for disobedience to their dress code,going to school,adultery or homosexuality.
You're so simplistic. You should listen again. There's no winner or loser here. Just get beyond that black and white scheme
Christopher Hitchens was an intellectual giant. His knowledge of history, politics was unmatched. This guy mentioned Turkey and Hitchens cornered him within seconds, telling him about Cyprus occupation, Kurds rights, Armenian genocide. He was in a league of his own, sorely missed.
He'd be horrified of trump's betrayal of the Kurdish people as we are.
@@thedoctor.a.s1401 How exactly did Trump betray the Kurdish people? Was it like when Obama let them be conquered by ISIS?
@@asdfjklol man American right wing people are so dumb I don't even understand
E RR Trump is a moron while Obama is a intellectual giant. Makes youa moron also!
That is because you are bias and you don't know the real facts of history. So whatever bulish invented facts, Mr. Hitchens comes up with, you really like to swallow it.
I just noticed he wore a pin representing the flag of the 1956 hungarian revolution. It just goes to show he was a true humanitarian speaking up against tyranny be it political, theological or both. The world is poorer without him.
" it's been changing and revolving" at glacial speed.
The comment section is full of very astute observations. That's refreshing ! Thank you !
Sometimes words of people like Hitchens is a slow burn. I remember watching this video almost 10 years ago and at the time I was a believer of Islam (come from a moderate family) , but as the years rolled by thanks to the Internet and others like Hitchens, the fog of programming since childhood started to fade and now has been cleared up. Thank you Hitchens!
Same for me with Christianity. I can't believe I wasted so many years believing in a fairy tale.
what made you leave Islam?
@@hamzakamran2485 personally, although i watch christopher hitchen occasionaly and other atheist debaters, I do not think I will leave Islam for anything.
@@TurkiAlbaqami cool. enjoy defending muhammad's r8pe of aisha at 9
@@Cantbearsed447 the liberal west that you all give your right arm to immigrate to. Yeah! :))
The Muslim guy talks a lot but says very little.
Tariq Ramadan accused of rape in Lyon: a fifth complaint added to the file The facts allegedly occurred in May 2014 at the Sofitel hotel in Lyon. While interviewing Tariq Ramadan in his suite, *the victim recounts having been pushed around and then raped several times by the Islamologist and one of his friends.* www.leprogres.fr/faits-divers-justice/2020/07/29/tariq-ramadan-accuse-de-viol-a-lyon-une-plainte-ajoutee-au-dossier
@John Martinez discover-the-truth.com/2013/09/14/bible-child-marriage-in-ancient-israelite-times-paedophilia/
I've listened to him speed x2. This guy said quite a lot of things...
@Vinnie P. Give him a chance mate, it's worth it.
@Vinnie P. I know. That's why i didn't want to listen to him in the first place. But then i gave him a chance and he's a very sophisticated guy and Hitchens' argument seems, all of a sudden, very shallow.
Great words from a dying man..RIP
As a Greek person I could not find anything more offensive than Mr Tariq Ramadan’s claim of the diversity and culturally accepting environment under the Ottoman Empire. Mr Ramadan would do well with further reading about the tyranny, slavery, genocide and atrocities committed on the communities of Greek, Pontiac, Kurdish, Armenian and various other inhabitants who occupied the land PRIOR to the invasion. Terms such as slavery and forced conversion must have skipped Mr Ramadans vocabulary.
Yes the Ottoman Empire, just like any empire is nothing to be proud of, or aspire to. We are meant to learn from history and not repeat it. The average man or woman is peaceful until they are Instigated by harm, but they have the restraint to deal with it in a humanitari way. Unless thay are corrupted by teachings such as religion which instructs them on how to deal with such situations which can twist their inate moral compass.
Im from Kosovo and I can confirm you are brainwashed and bringing forth a revised version of history meant to topple the Ottoman empire. Greeks speak Greek. Greeks are orthodox Christians. Greeks still have their own culture. Greeks have their own churches and schools. This was true for 1200y. Then Europe and liberalism came. Look at Greece now. What a shitstain on the planet. Im not sure whether im in frikkin Spain or Greece. Stop believing your brainwashed grandparents or white supremecists revisional historians. Read a frikkin book about facts and form your own opinions.
👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻💯%
Ειλικρινά έχω μείνει μαλακας, συγγνώμη για την έκφραση, με τη τοποθέτηση του τύπου. Ολόκληρα τα Βαλκάνια ματωσαν κατά την περίοδο της Τουρκοκρατίας και είναι εξοργιστικο όταν διάφοροι "ιστορικοί" προσπαθούν να πείσουν τον κόσμο ότι οι βαρβαρότητες των Οθωμανών δεν έγιναν ποτέ. Ευτυχώς ο Hitchens τον έβαλε στη θέση του. 👌
This isn't the case at all! If greeked really were treated as you describe, there wouldn't be any orthodox greeks left, isn't. The present proves his point. But offcourse as people always do, afterwards people who realy were not treated that bad for that time in history, start to invent their own history as they want to perceive it. This is mostly politicaly motivated.
People need to cut out these comments like: "We need Hitchens today!" No, we don't - what we really need: That you and me step in his footsteps, fighting for truth ourselves. And to raise another generation who will speak the truth once we are gone. The Hitch is dead - and if we'd really understand him (and other great thinkers), we would not mourn but take matters into our hands.
Well said!
Well said! Civilised peoples everywhere need to embrace reason over dogma!
excellent comment
Right on!
I think his friends and family might disagree.
Christoper was definitely one of history’s most intelligent and articulate humans to ever walk the earth !
LoL. Not in the top 10 million. Smart man, but not an Einstein or Newton
It hurts to know I'll never get to meet Christopher Hitchens. What a hero!
Luckily we have his discourses recorded...yay for technology??.. except for A.I. ..that will possibly be the boss of the world by 2030
The Islamic man is very emotional in his approach. Hitchens crystal clear and logical in his thinking. They are definately not equal in this debate.
Certainly Tariq had good points, islam fundamentally is wicked, but certainly the perception of the believers is adapting to secular standards so i think that it will end up like Christianity, with people that can question the religion adn the worst that you can get is having to deal with an angry Karen
@@DarthVaderfrif you need to rerhink your religion and make fundamental changes to it. Then that in itself makes it nonsense.
He struggled to contain his anger behind a very thin veil.
@@DarthVaderfr you do know that there are much worse things to come of christianity than the occasional angry mom right??
Have you seen the Monty Python team dismantle a very suspect christian bishop? #lifeofbrian
"You may have a problem with religion more than you have a problem with Islam." Uh yeah. That's been his stance all along.
No, he always kissed APARTHEID israeli arse. #BDS
@@auntiesemite9295 no, he really didn't.
Great episode great havinf dilly on !
Much respect for revered late Christopher the beacon of light for humanity
“Islam is a religion of peace” he affirmed raising his voice in a loud threatening way
Because he was slightly raising his voice it means he was threatening? I have seen many of Ramadan's lectures and that is just one of his traits of speaking. It is called passion for the field he works in. Nothing to do with 'threatening'. Kind of sad even that people like you try to poison people with hate while Ramadan has dedicated his life to do his best to create an understanding between people. It shows the contrast between people like you and mr Ramadan and who are the real hateful people
@@rememberpalestine-uyghurs-2918 hahaha cool story bro 😎
😁😄😃😅🤣
@@rememberpalestine-uyghurs-2918 Why religion at all? What possible advantage is there in any religion? With religions I see nothing more than keeping people in line, somewhere, somehow. With Islam its mainly women.
@@toni4729 There's so much arrogance and ignorance in this comment. I can say so many things in response... First thing i want to say at this comment, who are you to ask people why they are religious or not? In the same way i can question you. "why atheism"? Mao and Stalin were atheists, and they were the ones who have massacred more people in their lifetime than many religious wars troughout the centuries combined. It's not up to atheists to question muslims about their beliefs, rather it is the contrary.
Mr. Ramadan's speech is almost substance free although he is good at making it sound as though he says something meaningful. Stark contrast to Hitchens on the first point.
Because all Muslim apologists like Tariq can never and will never directly address the issues of Islam that Hitchens brings up. For all their fluffy wonderful talk about Islam's values of peace, spirituality and family, all of this stuff is used as a shield to hide and deflect the fact that Islam endorses values that are intolerant, authoritarian and violent.
Violence is to be expected when you attack nation upon nation on baseless facts I.E fake claims of WMDs in Iraq, killing millions of innocent people also occupying a nation that welcomed you to their land in Palestine from being oppressed by nazi Germany to being the same thing you run away from to those that welcomed you. Hypocrisy is very strong within must western world you can’t expect to take a number 2 around the world then be surprised when you don’t flush what you did will come back in some form thanks to the wind.
Hitchens stance is mostly humrous and at times mocking picking bits and pieces here and there and that's what people like but Mr Ramadan has refuted it beautifully on ground realities. RIP Hichens
Tbf any religious apologizer doesn't stand a chance against him, muslim or christian
@@ypjoebali96379 drop one point Mr Tariq made
Damn 10 Year old video in HD. Amazing. Thank you.
When Christopher died I felt a huge sadness and loss. Which has only deepened over the passing years. In 2023 I feel that sense of loss most deeply. The Western world is in terrible danger of becoming an extension of the Muslim Caliphate. Who wins ? Not I or any of my loved ones or British Countrymen/women.
Do get involved to change the failing out… it just can’t be that modern society would give into an ideology that says the Jew must be killed. It’s in the Quran I have seen it myself.
If it is a religion of peace why are their extremist not extremily peaceful
even the most peaceful religions have radicals. Even hindus
@@TheTurbanator123 What do extremist buddhists do? Not suicide bombing lmao.
The extremely peaceful muslims you talk about lead humble life’s in this dunya, you won’t ever hear about them. SubhanAllah may everyone find peace and the truth Alhamdulillah Salamu alaykum warahmatullahi wa barakatuh.
@@Zoykzmc They have massacred many muslims in Myanmar for example
First look at the extremists in your own environment/country
Tariq Ramadan is a Swiss Muslim academic, philosopher, and writer. He was a professor of contemporary Islamic studies at St Antony's College, Oxford and the Faculty of Theology and Religion, University of Oxford, but as of 2018 is taking an agreed leave of absence due to being held in prison following two rape allegations
He has since been acquitted of one of those allegations by a court in Geneva. (Comment edited to reflect ongoing allegations).
@@will-ellington He has been acquitted of one charge, there are yet four outstanding charges against him (as well as other allegations related to the rape charges, but not themselves rape charge). He's not coming back to Oxford, that's for certain.
@@ericforsyth My apologies. You are indeed correct. I will redact my comment accordingly.
It’s very obvious he is Swiss from all those holes in his arguments.
@@Zion66666didn't expect a cheese analogy here. Lol. I was serious and stoic reading the comments in this thread and you made me laugh. Thanks.
Thank you! ❤
I wish Christopher Hitchens was still with us...
Hitchens is alive through his works. His videos are still available in KZhead. But in near future, KZhead will probably take them in order to appease the Muslims who will violently demand them to be removed.
You said it my friend. Look at the state of the Western world crying out for a man like Hitchens to surface and take on our enemies and were he still with us I do believe we wouldn’t be in quite the mess we are. He would appeal to our courage and face the enemy instead of Quislings in politics letting in the Trojan horse and good men say and do nothing.
i bet he doesn't
There will be a second coming
He is. Never knew him but only just come across these videos now. His wisdom still spread even after his death. 👍👍👍
Christopher Hitchens was a phenomenally intelligent man and an absolutely brilliant man to debate people on this subject........ and probably anything else as well. He is sorely missed.
It's too bad his brother is such an idiot though
Not by everyone
@@mrpeterson1481 Ouch
@@mrpeterson1481double ouch
He was just a bitter man who like making blanketed arguments. He was perhaps a master of bitter generalization.
Having watched it all, one man is logical and truthful and the other is all smoke and mirrors without adressing the issue.
Great. Enjoy these discussions professional
R.I.P Christopher Hitchens, perhaps one of the best modern writers to oppose the injustices brought on by religion. We still miss you :(
The Hitch was awesome!
+AbconTv Don't be disgusting , get the fuck out of here
+AbconTv Well, he can't because there is no such thing...
+AbconTv No explain yourself. Explain your authority of the disgusting claim that the great hitchens is in hell. If hell were to exist and hitchens was there , I'd go.
+AbconTv "Just trying to make your days alittle bit joyful :)" BURN IN HELL! Lolol. Joyful, he calls himself.
I think Mr Hitchens won with only his entry speech.
Exactly. This was a show debate, but I'm glad some people listened to it - having already listened to everything else that's online that he's ever done, I just couldn't.
@@shelleymartin1451 usa has the most cases of fathers killed by their children under the age 15 were these children's Muslims..??usa starved millions of children in iraq and Afghanistan soviet union and china killed +200million people the last century why arnt they called terrorrist??
trust me his entry speech couldn't be more wrong
and i don't even like Ramadan at all
@@gamersandotakus2839 forgive me if I don't "trust you".
Mister Hitchens, you are so missed. Soooo missed.
Saying "God is not great" would have got her imprisoned for life, or worse, in a Muslim country.
Seems to me Tariq will only answer to the sort of questions asked by himself ...
Yes that's immediately what I thought.. says false premise/ inappropriate description, then redefines question to suit his answer. It seems his whole schtick is "I have THE answer, your just asking the wrong question"
This is what they all do when they can’t defend the religion or the Quran, or they say if it isn’t in Arabic then it is t correct.
@@marcuslarwa9098 ever heard of “translation”? What kind of medieval are you living in?
@@turkicunion1996 I’m just pointing out what they always do when u being up versus of the Quran that make the religion look bad. They say if it isn’t in Arabic then it’s not correct.
So Yehoshua (Jesus) is supposed to be a prophet of Allah according to Islam ??? How does it work if Allah is not YHWH! In addition, it is the UNFORGIVABLE SIN in Islam to testify to YHWH as the 1 True God! But Yehoshua means "YHWH SAVES”” So Jesus is definitely not the prophet of Allah! Because he only confirm YHWH!
Ramadan has a distinct underlying hostility
Yeah I feel the same way, probably beats his dog, oh wait…
That my friend is what we call racism.
Multiple rape allegations. oops, who could have known..
@@crusinx1234 oh really MO? What is the evidence behind your accusation?
@@RnRanimal Idk man everyone in the comments seems triggered about something. It's a debate. We're here to learn. And the comment makes no sense. Point to a moment where hostility was shown. And I could at least explain myself more, but it's a blanket statement. Hitchens was also aggressive and angry you dont see anyone making a statement about that.
It was a pleasure to watch this debate. Both sides civilized and respectful.
This convo aged like fine wine.
1:13:48 that's a piss poor point from Tariq. For example, something like 75% of British Muslims believe that the Danish artist who drew a cartoon of the prophet Mohammed should be criminally prosecuted and over half of British Muslims believe that homosexuality should be outlawed. This is DESPITE the fact they are living in a completely different country with vastly different cultural values, yet they still hold these rather disturbing thoughts mostly true.
Religion is the cause of all that is negative.
Are you really worried about a cartoon??? Really are you 4 years old?
@@markadkins1225 Am I worried about a cartoon?
Mark Adkins no we are not worried about a cartoon we are worried that there is a huge amount of people willing to fucking kill over a cartoon and want the people who drew it in JAIL OR DEAD. In 2020. In a modern country. It’s fucking barbaric
In the whole debate u found one poor point from tareq, great job but i found more than 8 illogical statements came from ur scholar's mouth so no need to mention such stuff and stop picking sides.
Tariff paints a lovely picture, but it does not resemble anything approaching reality.
I'll give you an advice stop watching Fox news.
@@jakewebdev6428 I'm from Iran so I know a thing or 2 about theocracies and the religion of "peace". Please don't try to defend it , most of us in Iran hate this religion.
@@k2h873 most Iranian people are good and they love their religion more than anything.
@@jakewebdev6428 Thats a contradiction in itself. You can not be good if you hold your religion above all else. With this view it is easy to justifiy any atrocity you want.
Yeah
Hitchens was incredible! Powerful even here, near his end.
Mr. Hitchens worked until the end. I sure miss the man.
It's sometimes extraordinarily difficult to listen to Mr Ramadan without wondering why he does not mention that the perfect man and final prophet, who consummated a marriage with a nine-year old child, also dealt in slavery and spread his message by the sword.
Exactly. Their prophet was a pedophile and warmonger. And the scary thing is they think of him as THE PERFECT MAN.
Yes, those juicey details never get bought up.
Not forgetting his 4 pending rape charges, one upon a disabled girl. It's in his Wiki.
@@truthhurts2879All Hitchens needed to do was quote some of the gems of verses contained in the Qur'an and this ramadan guy would be left utterly defenseless. He had the gall to state that it's the reader who is flawed not the book, what a clown.
Prophet Muhammad and his companions freed thousands of slaves, Aisha was documented a mature, menstruating woman, every battle or campaign was defensive in nature. Try again. Your anti-Islamic polemics and apologetics of Hitchens or Harris is laughably pathetic and astonishingly ignorant!
Can't answer the question, change the question.
Tariq Ramadan accused of rape: "He hit me, then he strangled me, and then he raped me" kzhead.info/sun/jNmvqZ2jh6uYi58/bejne.html
Well, rationality vs religion usually end up this way, cant have a satisfying ending. Otherwise its not called faith but science.
@bigbadb10 "Tariq Ramadan literally threw himself on me like a wild 🐷 beast", testifies Henda Ayari kzhead.info/sun/etKndt1orHibZn0/bejne.html
@Duncan Hackett "Tariq Ramadan literally threw himself on me like a wild 🐷 beast", testifies Henda Ayari kzhead.info/sun/etKndt1orHibZn0/bejne.html
@@Cecilia-ky3uw "Tariq Ramadan literally threw himself on me like a wild 🐷 beast", testifies Henda Ayari kzhead.info/sun/etKndt1orHibZn0/bejne.html
Wow! Talk about being Spot On :) You are one hell of an amazing person!
I so miss Christopher Hitchens!!!!❤
Rather perfect. Hitch looks at the EVIDENCE .. and comes to a conclusion. The Religionist literally tells us to IGNORE evidence .. and tells us what we SHOULD see. It’s practically a perfect example of Religion vs Reason.
I like Hitchens but also I respect Ramadan's perspective.
False. Hitchens speaks of a time when his white ancestors had infiltrated the muslim lands and caused destruction. Tariq speaks of 1200y islam where peace prospered.
@@dadush4 Wouldn't be so sure about peace, Islam started in the year 610, Ever since then it was constant civil war or war with other countries if you look at history
@@graymatter6661 youtube is eating my comment because im a bad boy using words like "genocide" what a stupid platform.
@@dadush4 ok?
If a religion or philosophy is so complicated and obtuse that people can mistake it's peacefulness for intolerance, it appears we have an enormous problem no matter who the people are believing it.
Very well said
The problem is not the complexity of the religion, but the simplistic and light way people deal with it .
The problem is not the complexity of the religion, but the simplistic and light way people deal with it .
@@nsibtrap8094here comes white washing sins of profile profet and his followers
YES!!! I couldn't agree more. I was thinking about that yesterday while listening to Sam Harris.
Hitchens would hate to see the world we live in today.
the problem is not the interpretation, it is the book. it is very explicit and without any interpretation promotion of violence is clear
yes the Jewish Bible and the Talmud are like that and the Kabbalah says to just conform
Love from India !! True hero hitch!!
So, here we are in January 2022, and unfortunately Tariq Ramadan has been consistently proven wrong about everything.
And profoundly damaging . He would not answer to the question of how the Hadith deals with apostates , to name only one question . This guy spent so much time selling his peaceful “ Islam that apostates leaving in France are scared of ally these “ peaceful “ muslims who threaten them with death .
Questions to antiomoral ideology of islam. 1) Can woman decide for herself, or her `caretaker` have deciding voice? 2) Can nonbeliever marry `muslim` woman? 3) How you should treat apostates from islam? 4) Why peace and freedom are in Islam synonyms to war and slavery(subjugation)? 5) How doas afterlife differs, depending on you being islamist/nonislamist man/woman or ... yourself up and becoming martyr? 6) Why women have to wear these bags, maybe islamist should just po.. their eyes, that will have multiple pros, like they will be unable to k!ll anybody, or it will be much harder?
January 2023 still the same...
Especially him.saying Turkey is moving in a progressive manner lmao
As expected by the history of islam.
Chapter 9 verse 29 will explain everything if Islam is religion of peace.
RIP Christopher…..Sadly, the world needs you now more than ever.
Notice how every “answer” Tariq gave was actually just a rejection of the premise of the question. He then invented his own version of the question and answered that.
Ramadan.exe was successfully cracked!
Like every muslim "scholar"
because the premise was false
Well said.
It's the standard response method when faced with points you cannot address, redirect, move the goal posts and make your position about something else, it's weak and shows you cannot argue your point.
"Islamophobia" is a smoke-screen term. Having a phobia means having an irrational fear. But fearing Islam which wants 80% of humanity enslaved or exterminated is totally rational. Hence, you cannot call this a phobia.
100%
Yup.
it's common sense, survival, rational, and also a love gesture when you see an agitated child that invade your peace, you teach him to stop and focus for a while. that's what will happen to Islam at one point
Excellent argument! I'm going to remember this.
Spot on
I would love to see this debate revisited considering recent events.......Bring back the Hitchens!
Likely some puffy-faced blue-haired wokie shit-idiot on youtube would try to cancel Hitch. He would have been appalled by the censorship today.
Hitchens did not tolerate horseshit. I know few men with this type of courage.
Tariq Ramadan: an ex-companion testifies and denounces "moral violence" kzhead.info/sun/lq1uqqygpWibpGw/bejne.html
@C Hill 7 Nothing courageous about "tolerating" points in a debate, unless you're indirectly asserting that Ramadan has some very well and thoughtful points which would be hard to debate against? Your horsesh*t comment makes no sense. Courageous of me to reply to it? Ha!
@@tablechair1842 "Tariq Ramadan literally threw himself on me like a wild beast", testifies Henda Ayari kzhead.info/sun/etKndt1orHibZn0/bejne.html
@@georgegratindefinois4912 As I said elsewhere much further down the line than here, if that's true, it's horrible, but it wouldn't really reflect on the merits of his arguments here, just like if someone accused Hitchens of a heinous sexual assault, even if it were true, it wouldn't reflect on the validity of his arguments or lack thereof here - and I say this as someone who largely sides with Hitchens.
Allah said in the Qur'an: "Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly." Meanwhile atheists in china for example r rounding up muslim women children elderly..in the biigest brainwashing torture center in the world.. In the hadiths in Sahih Bukhari Volume 004, Book 052, Hadith Number 258. Narrated By Ibn 'Umar : During some of the Ghazawat of Allah's Apostle a woman was found killed, so Allah's Apostle forbade the killing of women and children. " There r many other hadiths like this one about ethics of war prohibiting torture, unlawfull killing of animals, destruction of trees, killing innocent civilans, monks in their monasteres..Meanwhile, stalline, lenine, the chinese regime, the drug cartels, the french occupation of Algeria Tunisia Mali..showed us how "peaceful" atheist secular regimes r..not to mention that most of them today sponsor the zionnist anti muslim terror in Palestine, & many secular dictators in the muslim world. When it comes to trinitarianism, did you know when the church used to rule in the holy city, in Spain, in Serbia..what did they do? They tortured & killed all those who refused to become Trinitarians (Jews muslims ex Trinitarians..) Meanwhile in that same time muslims used to be ruled by strict shariah law resulting in the saving of the jews from the crusades in Spain & peacefull coexistence between Trinitarians jews & muslims before the Trinitarian inquisitions when the church tortured to death all non Trinitarians.
What courage and what wisdom, thank you Mr Hitchens. You are remembered 🙏
Unfortunately he died as a very ignorant man.
@@tajzikria5307 not only is that your opinion, your opinion is just wrong
@@nonstickmeat_ssb 🤡
Lgbqt+#&@€*
@@tajzikria5307 He didn't - you might.
I just looked up Jihad in my copy of the Quran which has an index. It referred me to look up fighting, striving.