When audio signals pass through a capacitor they sound different depending on which kind of capacitor is in use. Why? And check out our newest KZhead channel / @octaverecordsanddsdst... Octave Records.
When audio signals pass through a capacitor they sound different depending on which kind of capacitor is in use. Why? And check out our newest KZhead channel / @octaverecordsanddsdst... Octave Records.
As a retired analog microchip designer with 35 years of experience, I have a good practical knowledge of capacitor characteristics. Caps have three basic electrical characteristics: capacitance, equivalent series resistance, and equivalent series inductance. Depending on the circuit in which the cap is used, one or more of these might be completely negligible. Film caps have much lower series resistance than electrolytics, but most of the series inductance is in the leads, so there is not much difference between the two types. In audio circuits, resistance and inductance are almost always negligible because the frequency of operation is so low. At audio frequencies, series inductance is practically zero. Series resistance along with the capacitance results in a tiny phase shift of the audio signal, but it's not at all clear that such tiny phase shifts are audible. Rather than providing an explanation, Paul, all you've done is *declare* that film capacitors sound better than electrolytics. To provide an explanation, you would have to deal with the capacitor characteristics I described above, by *showing* how an audio signal is altered in a way noticeable to the human ear. For example, tube amplifiers sound different from transistor amplifiers because tube characteristics are different from transistor characteristics. Almost all audio amplifiers provide gain by using a feedback circuit to control distortion. Tube amplifiers have inherently much lower gain than most decent transistor amplifiers, and end up having much higher distortion, mostly in the odd harmonics, than transistor amps. It's that distortion that is actually pleasing to the ear, and for poorly known biological reasons, "sounds better" than an undistorted signal. That's the sort of explanation you would need in order to explain why "film capacitors sound better than electrolytic capacitors. To be thorough, you'd have to provide a representative circuit schematic of some amplifier and explain exactly why using one type of capacitor in one location produces an audio signal that "sounds better" than if using another type. Also keep in mind that electrolytics are not used very much in audio circuits (except perhaps very low frequency bass circuits), but almost exclusively in power supply circuits.
Alan, don't tubes produce even order distortion rather than odd order distortion?
And Alan, dielectric absorption might be the biggest factor. Yes ESR and ESL are important, especially for bypassing and circuits that pulse (switching regulators) but DA is the most likely differentiator. Agreed, lead inductance has no bearing at audio freq. Pease wrote articles about this, calling it a memory effect. Also a changing voltage and/or bias voltage across a cap influences the charge available which changes the capacitance. This might be a minor effect.
Well while you've been gaining book smarts for 35 years, he's been listening to this shit for about as long, so I'm gonna take his word on what sounds better
@@TheChadPad I guess you can't read
@@philipwebb960 They produce both. Clever designers use staging and topologies which tend to cancel even harmonics, so in practice it's more of a myth than reality, that tube circuits produce mostly even harmonics. But considering the overall frequency distribution of distortion harmonics, it is generally true that tube circuits produce more energy in low-order harmonics and less energy in the very high-order range, compared to class AB transistor circuits, for example.
I'm still really curious about the answer.
I could be wrong, but my take is this. Capacitors are not actually perfect,,, actually they filter imperfectly. (They will "leak" freqs that should be blocked and "lose" freqs they shouldnt.) Different caps result in different styles of leak, just like transistors and tubes have different clipping and compression. ,,,, but i could be trippin.
@@tsmspace Shrooms?
@@dannyverhamme7970 capacitors,,,, are like snowflakes. In a pile of snow they are all the same.
OMG! MICROFarad...one millioneth of a Farad, not 1,000th! (More coffee Paul!)
Old video but if you're still curious it's because different materials charge at different speeds. There is also the issue of linearity where some types of capacitors don't charge and discharge with as smooth a curve as others.
This video doesn't address the question posed in the title.
you just did not listen
why, it's mostly because of the ESR rating and capacitance, generally speaking, in a well engineered circuit, it would not matter, for example you can replace the caps with "better" ones (for your own definition of better), and it won't make any difference
@@PeterBoaMan I must have missed it. Can you please tell us the answer, since you now know it ?
Because of their makeup
Well, it's a question not a statement, lol. Maybe if it said 'Why capacitors sound different' then your point would have a leg to stand on.
I wasn't looking for information about capacitors in an audio-specific set up, but I found myself watching the whole video anyway. Nicely done!
My background is psychology, so I really appreciate these informal, but informative monologues. Thanks to my fellow listeners for their clarifying commentary, I.e. distinguishing the powers of micro and milli.
the shortest answer to the title is ESR and tolerances. Two years back I visited a web page that went in depth talking about tone caps, there were even audio samples. You can have two capacitors of different types with the same exact Farad and voltage and the tonal differences are due to differences in tolerance and equivalent series resistance.
there is more to it than that
That didn't answer the question. At all.
But it did probably sell a few $1000 PS Audio power cables...
He did though
@@HakeemKaree He explained that they sound different, but why do they sound different?
I feel like the question posed at the beginning was never fully answered. The writer asked if swapping a cheap cap with the same specs as a fancy dancy $$ cap had any audio differences.
Very informative and timely to me since I'm upgrading some vintage speakers. Replacing all the old electrolytics with polypropylene ones, perhaps Mundorf oil based ones. Great video. Thanks!
Sometimes “I don’t know” is the correct answer and making stuff up just confused the hell out of every one
You see sir that's where you're wrong, Every opportunity that you genuinely don't know the answer is an opportunity to completely twist things up in the most creative way that you were able to devise on the spot, it's a challenge if you will, and you see you already don't know the answer so should somebody come along and try to tell you oh yeah you're so dumb well you already know you don't know the answer so screw them it's not going to hurt you or you ego in anyway, and the hilariousness should some of this twistedness catch fire and take off it's priceless. Lifes of game, and a scoreboard/count of who's winning the losing isn't necessarily as obvious as a lot of people seem to think. Carry on now with that backbreaking old burden Truth...,
@@dont.ripfuller6587 What?
@@marklowe7431 um... I don't know? 🤷🏻♂️
What was "made up"?
In short: some caps have more electrical resistance and unwanted inductance than others which could emphasize certain frequencies and diminish others and cause phase shifts. Electrolytic caps have relatively high internal resistance because the electricity passes not only thru metal but also thru this paste with water and salts, which doesn't conduct perfectly. The chemical reactions inside can also create tiny tiny gas bubbles which when created and vanish create variations in capacitance and resistance that manifest as noise. Because of their build with rolled up foil, they tend to have more inductance also which makes them better suited for low frequencies like filtering the 50/60 Hz out of line voltage. Now if these things are built with great care, these effects are smaller than with cheaper ones. Still, generally one would put a non-electrolytic cap in parallel to short any radio frequency interference.
It's simple ac LOW FREQ AUDIO electronics Paul, not rocket science. C=ak/d & xc=1/2 pi fc, ESR= ESR=DF*Xc=DF/(2* π*f*C. If you as a "HI-END" source buy quality parts; COTS, ISO 900X and screen them properly then there should NEVER be a CAPACITOR failure in your boxes if the design passes muster. Caps, if made properly have similar finite lifetime as OTHER solid state electronic. Paul is a BS artist. Really, at Paul and his competitors prices you should be getting milspec, ever hi-rel traceable products. Hi-End audio thrives on fear/ ignorance. Fear you say? Yes the fear that your system won't measure up to your lawyer co-workers at you're pot/alcohol & cigar bar party. Just kidding, Paul. We love you.
one thing to remember when using an Electrolytic cap, it has polarity, if you put one in backward it will explode and smell really really bad :)
K Carney Only a polarized cap. Non-polarized caps don't care what direction they face. So long as it adheres to Feng Shui mythology.
The interference is high frequency AC on top of the DC. Your film cap is parallel to the motor and shorts the AC component produced by the motor. It does not short the DC cause caps don't conduct DC.
powertothebauer in short (pun intended), your unwanted motor interferences are A/C signals and are passed (shorted) through the capacitor in a rather brute force way: parallel-connected to both inputs of the DC motor. BUT for speakers, the connection is in series, like a paper dolls_chain holding just their hands, and so imagine one of the dolls is very little so she simply cannot stand to be shaken too hard with a large-duration pull, but indeed does very well when transmitting little alternating waves through herself. The little waves are high frequency because the speed of electricity must always move at a fixed speed throughout any conductor. That is what those formulas tell us. Why it wasn't put in simpler terms for an undisciplined hobbyist- well it is not your fault for not understanding because the electrical properties of motors are not externally apparent. They're what we consider black boxes of a sort, that nobody knows how they'll react until they're probed by meters or carefully connected. I suppose just that you're not careful because the manufacturer specifies a value and you simply throw it on without paying much attention. No big deal, we experiment more is all, but we also realize that DC voltage is not going to fry up your speakers if the current is next to nothing. Lots of other components that would be fried up by DC are actually fed little amounts of DC in a technique that is called biasing. Think of chip biasing as the old vacuum tubes being warmed up before they could start working, except this DC biasing has to be continually applied because of other characteristics. Of course the chip would fry up with a high bias-current, but resistors and especially capacitors block that from happening, which in the latter is related to how low frequencies behave more like DC while INSIDE any component. Clearly pure DC does not alternate, but AC signals can be biased to the point where the most negative troughs never reach 0V, and look on a scope like pulsed DC. You're probably only familiar with balanced inputs and 0V grounding, not these signals that legitimately 'float' above a 0V ground.
The letter author explicitly asked "if they have the same specs (i.e. capacitance!), what is technically different and how does it translate to audio?" You then proceeded to suggest the poor audio quality is due to using the wrong size capacitor (using a 4000 mfd electrolytic vs. 0.01 mfd film cap). Total nonsense answer.
can you connect your speaker to compare with cheap mundorf 47uf Mcap tin cap(white.color) vs 47uf Mcap Alum vs 47uf Mcap supreme silver oil vs 47uf Mcap Supreme silver/gold/oil EVO. Does it sound different ! Live Video have ? 😍😍. ( can u do a video with that can ? It will be very Fun to try )......."//
A Micro Farad is one millionth of a Farad. Sorry I couldn't help myself. Thanks for all the great info. Love the vids!
Sounds like a tiny bicycle in German
A Farad is the unit for electric capacitance, I think this is what he should have told...
Great Info? Well what a Con-Artist he is! More expensive ergo must sound better....? If you buy something way too expensive it has to be good, right?
This is a better explanation about different types of capacitors: kzhead.info/sun/it2thZmtoWluYGw/bejne.html
For comparison, a AA battery holds ~6000 farads. Not that you can compare the two, but just a bit of perspective :)
Absolutely brilliant explanation Paul! Thank you for all your efforts.
I had heard of running different quality caps in series like that to get better quality sound, but didn't know the why's and wherefore's. Thanks for the explanation!
Hare deLune Not different QUALITY caps, but rather different TYPES, e.g. film cap bypass of a larger electrolytic. The film cap make the electrolytic behave in a more linear fashion.
Darin Brunet O.K., thanks! : )
Parallel not series
mathyoooo2 Yes, parallel, not in series.
Thanks again for another informative, educational and simply put explanation in layman’s terms. Your a great teacher.
Your, YOU'RE....pick Juan! 😁
I do agree with Paul on his views of capacitors. From some of the comments I read, he may not have explained it to a deep enough level. He did not talk about dissipation factor of the dielectric. Capacitors are not perfectly efficient devices, electrolytic capacitors will tend to hold a small charge even after being shorted out. Electrolytics have a ripple current rating, series impedance etc. I personally like using film capacitors whenever space allows, because they sound better than electrolytic caps. I have not tried the super expensive audiophile film caps to see if they are substantially better than the run of the mill film caps.
What else to say, THANK YOU so much for this video, regards Mr. Paul.
"It's got what amps crave. It's got electrolytes"
It is amazing how much I learn with your videos, as a former Electronic Engineer who abandon the career for computer science, I have the basic knowledge but I love how easy you explain all these complicated topics. Thank you so much.
So, You are a 'rocket surgeon' lol, yet Grade 5 English grammar eludes you?
@@mr.blackhawk142 English is not my native language but I speak 3 other languages how about you?
After watching, I still don't know why capacitors sound different.
Paul, thank you for teaching all those cool stuffs freely and for not making it a secret (like the paralel capacitor trick). byebye be well and thank you for your generosity have a very good day Paul.
Wow thats was amazing, thanks for your experience Mr. Paul! I hope you are fine in this Corona situation! best whishes
I am really enjoying these videos! Thanks
Great video, thx a lot. I have 2 questions. I checked some speakers with just a capacitor as crossover for the tweeter and they all have different capacitor values between 1.5-4.7 µF. Is this because the manufacturer wants different sound or the tweeters are different or the amplifier is different ? How do I choose the right capacitor for a tweeter ?
Thanks for answering my question Paul! I always look forward to your video at the end of my day.
Very nice description thank you. New respect for film caps. Would love to hear thoughts on Ultracaps like Maxwell and Skeleton, have you tried those in power supply?
ultra caps are like electrolytic on steroids. they use exotic materials that are optimized at a nanotechnology level to store as many electrons as close to the other plate as possible.
Summary: "capacitor is _any_ two conductors that are insulated from one another...dot!" and the various electrical properties associated with the capacitor depend on myriad of physical factors. Like the surface area of the conductors, insulating material, distance between conductors etc. etc. etc... And these cause myriad of effects that an ideal capacitor seen in circuit analysis doesn't have such as polarity, unwanted series resistances, inductances... susceptibility for DC-bias etc. etc. and all of these effects can and probably will distort the signal that's passing trough the capacitor if it's in series with the signal. That's why we have gazillions of different kinds of capacitor technologies and they all have their places and prices. But all in all it matters only if one can measure (or if you're an audiopho-- audiophile, hear) the difference.
Mtaalas: thanks for writing, very well explained
Great video! Thank you for teaching us.
Finally! I have been searching for this exact info for a long time, and you nailed it. Explaining it only the way someone with such technical knowledge combined with a down to earth radio personality can do, a rare gift indeed. Thank you Paul and keep it coming.
That was spitting gold, right there, at the end. I must say... thank you, for that idea! ! ! Wow! ! ! 😳
at last someone telling me about the crossover and bas mid and tweeter. 3:55 into the video. I am fixing my old Magnepan MG II speakers and looking for capacitor info. thank you for all the nice videos you upload . Jan From Sweden.
Good job, you completely failed to answer the question.
Spot on , Nick , it reminds me an old song from Frank Zappa : " We're only in it for the money" ; )
At a certain point, you have to sell snake oil when you're asking thousands or tens of thousands of dollars for A/V system components.
The answer is, Dissipation Factor. www.reliablecapacitors.com/oldRC/www.reliablecapacitors.com/pickcap.html
you don't even listening.......he already answer, paper cap are great passing sound then electrolyte.
@@tukangboboBut EVERYBODY already knows that.
The thing that’ll REALLY make your head itch is the fact that the energy doesn’t actually flow through the wire. 🤔Thanx for explaining crossover caps. Never had to use any in a guitar amp so I wasn’t sure what they were doing in some cabs.
@William, I take the BUS, or hitch-hike, bc I can't afford 'cabs'! BTW, try to stay on SUBJECT here OK! lol
I have a 7 band graphic eq that I'd like to change the lower frequencies. Is it possible to change the capacitors in certain frequencies to get your desired effect? For an example, if I want to change my lowest frequency of 100 hz to 50 hz and the second frequency is 125 I'd like to change to 80 or 85 hz. Also, how do I determine the slope at which the frequencies roll off? Thanks for any help you can offer.
Ever try it out? I want to halve the freq of the low pass filter on my eq and am thinking of just soldering an identical cap to the legs of the film caps already in the filter
i love working on speakers. interesting video. one question how do we calculate how much microfarad would be right for with the speaker. suppose we have 4 Ohm tweeter and 8omh woofer. also what all products are required for a cross over and how do we calculate those products value?
Still does not explain why two equal capacitors have different sound (if any). The only argument here is that the more expensive ones must sound better!
Ventsislav Simonov A voice of reason amongst the noise. I built your diamond buffer headphone amp a few years back. Turned out very nice.
in my experience, low value caps compared to high value/quality caps of the same type whilst passing signal, shows a difference in frequency fall off in dB very much sooner in the low value cap. In my view, low value/quality caps are close to a bandpass filter.
It is audiophoolery, basically. If we were talking about RF, where the type of capacitor plays a big difference, yes. But for audio frequencies, not by a long shot. You don't have any capacitor in which the inductance is significant at frequencies up to 20KHz. But the placebo effect and being in denial to the fact that one spent much money for nothing? Well, that is significant.
semahnai I guess capacitors work differently in your part of the world. Must be a gravitational delta coefficient difference. Or simply that your understanding is hokum. You shouldn't try to design anything electronic.
Ok, I need proof on that. Show me tests being done on oscilloscope, live (I don't accept bogus images), showing differences in audio distortion caused by different caps. By the way, I don't have audiophile hearing. I can't hear above 15KHz. Thus, I can't hear supersonic frequencies, like 48KHz or so.
1:06 erm... a capacitor will not pass battery voltage... really? / i don't think that's a great description...
Personally, I feel the “What is a capacitor?” could have been explained more clearly. At it’s fundamental level, a capacitor is an analogue electronic component capable of storing and releasing an electrical charge. The rate at which it can store and release that charge is determined by its characteristics. Some graphics would also helpful. I graduated from university in Electronics and Communications Engineering. Power supplies and audio circuits were a big part of my course. For people who don’t know what a capacitor is, the video isn’t helpful.
MatchstalkMan I don't see "What is a" in the title nor do I see any misleading click bait graphic in the thumbnail that disappeared in the actual video, so sorry if it wasn't what you wanted but you shouldn't have expected anything that wasn't indicated in the table of contents.
MatchstalkMan so do more expensive capacitors sound better? If not what makes certain electronic sound better than others?
Best explanation of what capacitors do I’ve heard!
A capacitor's function is to store and release energy. It's definition is to offset inductance by 180 electrical degrees.That is why we can power factor correct inductive motors so when done correctly Cos Phi is almost equal to 1.000
Great work. Very knowledgeable.
Capacitors will pass alternating current above a particular frequency, and block direct current. A capacitor essentially stores a static charge that the alternating current signal alternately charges and discharges. This is how is passes on alternating current - because the stored charge on one side of the capacitor creates an exact opposite charge on the other side of the capacitor. The amount of charge (in volts) that can be stored dictates the amount of alternating current that can flow. Capacitors and inductors in combination form what is called a resonant circuit. Resonant circuits form the basis for all tone controls and all analog signal filters of any sort. The different types of capacitors - made from different physical materials - have different properties. Among those properties is also a degree of inductance. And the different types of capacitor have different amounts of inductance. Interestingly, inductors also have a degree of capacitance. The trick is to combine inductors and capacitors in such a way that you get the right amount of capacitance and the right amount of inductance in resonant circuit for what you need. An inductor is similar to a resistor, but is frequency dependent. A resistor inhibits the flow of direct current, and an inductor inhibits the flow of alternating current above a given frequency. Thus, a capacitor filters out low frequencies, and an inductor filters out frequencies above a particular point, and what you get is a band of frequencies that the resonant circuit will pass. Some inductors are just resistors working with an AC signal, and other inductors are coils of wire. Transformers have an inductance and a capacitance rating.
Hi Paul. Off topic question here, and one I assume you get asked a lot. I remember back in the late 70's a friend of a friend had a system comprised of homemade bookshelf speakers and what I would assume was a class A amp/receiver and turntable. We played a lot of vinyl, (rock). Volume was never a consideration. The sound "filled" the room, and you could hear every individual instrument. To this day I've never heard anything that could compare. I have always aspired to recreating this sound, but nowadays with most sources being digital, I have never really come close, (mostly due to budget constraints). I recently came across the Dayton Audio APA150 for under $160. It would be powering two Polk 200TSi speakers. Media sources would be digital so I am currently using a SMSL SA-50 amp paired with a Signstek HIFI USB to Coaxial S/PDIF Converter Decoder Mini USB DAC PCM with 2704 chipset, (I also use an audio EQ extension on my PC to accentuate the highs, mids, and lows). What is your opinion of the Dayton Audio APA150 vs. say... the Emotiva BassX A-100 , and could your offer an alternative DAC? Am I at least headed in the right direction?
another question ignored by Paul
This is the best explanation yet, that I've heard on how this works... Thank you for that Sir
What - no praises for the subjectively excellent sound quality of Rubycon Black Gate capacitors?
Excellent video! I've been reading about capacitors all week! Nice timing. I just took the lid off of a Yamaha B-2 last night. If I can get it to work, I want to do a full restoration. Living in Japan, I got it as junk for $200. It turns on, but no sound. If anyone has restoration advice for the B-2, hit me up! Thanks!
Unplug and not turn on! Have a tech look at this. There are plenty of posts about refurbing this amp on diyauidio. B-2 amps that have not been maintained by a tech "frequently" kill the vfets. If you are lucky, your problem is different as the B-2 uses vfets which are unavailable. Regardless your amp may have some vefets that are still good and can be sold. Good luck
John Reardon Always best to have a few on hand from which to use parts. I use to own 3 back in the late 70s. Good luck with the project.
Paul,We've been using Sprague electrolytics in Fender guitar amps for years now.The prices have been going way up.Starting to use JJ caps.Half the price. Illinois Capacitors are the budget ones but look cheap.Orange Drops have been used widely for coupling caps.I've started using the 150s.They sound a little smo6other to my ear.What do old filters sound like?I tell people old caps are like looking through an out of focus camera and new filter caps are like dialing the focus on.Have you ever messed with a Fender tweed Bassman? How about an Ampeg SVT?The SVT has six 6550 power tubes,700 volts on the plates and 300 watts of humping bass tone.O.K.What's a good guitar tone ?Listen to AllmanBrothers Band,Eat A Peach,Mountain Jam.Duane Allman does a guitar solo towards the end, after the drum and bass solo.It'a a one four chord progression,kinda gospel sounding.A 50's sunburst Les Paul through a 50 watt Marshall amp with one or two Marshall 4-12'' speaker cabs.Duane gets everything from sweet and clean to full on tube saturation.The Marshall is a copy of that Fender Bassman 5f6-a circuit.Here's the funny thing about Fender amps.I read an interview with Seth Lover and he said Fender amps are nothing special.They are so logical and straight forward,easy to work on and built with common parts.If I was gonna go on a trip across the cosmos in a space ship,I'd take the old hand wired Fender.You could teach a class on good layout just from looking at it.Other people have said it.Leo's genius was layout and grounding.Sorry,this wasn't supposed to be so long.I fell down the rabbit hole.Happy Listening and Playing.
The greatest mystery of electronic technology will always be things with the same specs performing wildly different in real world applications.
if I'm using one 6.5 inch subwoofer rater at 200 watts RMS. plus one 5 inch woofer midrange rated at 100 watts RMS. and the tweeter already has an electrolytic capacitor of 47U 100V. which capacitor do I need to limit the subwoofer? and which capacitor would be proper for the woofer-midrange? and should I replace the electrolytic capacitor that came with the tweeter? BTW. which assortment kit of film caps do you recommend for home audio? thanks
Hello Paul, what brand of capacitors do you use in ps audio equipment ?
Dear Sir, Hi how are are you? hope you are doing great and well, I have a problem I bought 12" woofers for my stereo and they are playing like 6db higher than the ones I replaced, they produce too much bass in order to play the stereo I have to put the bass control on -4 db to get a decent sound, I wonder if you can recommend me a capacitor to place in to dim the bass out the speakers, and if you sell it, I can purchase it from you? Thank you very much, Luis
I'm sure there are people who have endless discussions about this, but I'm not one of them.
No mention of dielectric absorption? Look on the web for articles back in the day by Walt Jung and Richard Marsh. They did some very interesting work on why different caps sound different back in the 1980's.
I used polypropylene and polystyrene caps in my crossovers. But no matter what type of caps are used caps are known for creating different kinds of distortion. Two caps wired in series (as opposed to a single cap) with a DC V applied to the common point between, eliminates phase shift and keeps the cap layers tight as the voltage/current constantly change. Creating a biased XO, or what JBL called Charge-Coupled Network™️
Milton Crosbie JBL used a 9V battery to apply biasing between 2 polarized caps creating a stable non polarized cap. When tested, it didn't have any audible or electrical benefit and was abandoned in subsequent models.
Darin Brunet actually all the K2 & Everest models from 1993 up to about 2014 used the biased XOs. With the last ones using a biased circuit instead of the battery. The resulting sound is cleaner, with the distortion removed. I also read that Vandersteen used a bias XO on at least one of their models. Then at the time JBL Pro came out with the M2 Reference Monitor with dsp enabled Crown amps and active XO, Greg Timbers did the same with the last Everest he worked on, except using ML amp.
Paul McGowan: always interesting. From the title I thought the question had to do with brand and not merely types of capacitors.
As much as he gives info out in these videos, I bet Paul is learning from our comments as well sometimes. Anyway I appreciate the daily videos from an "old head" in the audio gear biz.
mrlithium, Learning is always, or at least SHOULD be a TWO-way street! I went back to 'school' in 2006, to learn to be an electrician, but I was AGHAST at what they were teaching students. One very popular teacher actually told us that FLOURIDE in our water supply is good for us!?! Needless to say, I got OUT of there ASAP!!!
Capacitors can introduce audio distortion through variations of ESR or capacitance with the instantaneous voltage and current across the capacitor. Consider a high-value ceramic capacitor in a basic 1000hz high pass filter. A 100hz signal will be greatly reduced, but the capacitor value will vary up and down due to the 100hz voltage across the cap. This will introduce 100hz modulation on higher signals, strongest 100-2khz. An X7R ceramic cap's capacitance can fall 50% at it's rated DC voltage vs 0VDC. ESR of an electrolytic capacitor is far from an ideal resistor. It is after all passing a signal through a chemical bath (electrolyte). Lots of opportunity for diode-like effects. Dielectric absorption has been suggested as a factor, but it generally occurs on a time scale of seconds or longer, outside the audio band.
I had a question if you don't mind me asking I'm putting new caps and an old vintage Sony walkie-talkie and the temperatures are like 85°, could I go up a little bit higher in temperature. The ones I have are like 105 with that be okay. I like watching your videos I learned something
Electronics for preschoolers. "Now kiddies, this thing has two legs and it's round! ......"
Are the small film capacitors for tone, polarity sensitive, or can they be installed without worrying about polarity. I have some for my guitar amp, and they don't seem to have any polarity markings on them.
no, they are not polarized, so not polarity critical. Can go in either way.
I will answer, more expensive capacitors usually have a lower series resistance(ESR), large capacitance values(in thousands of uF) are usually electrolytic, these however have poor leakage, so better designs use low leakage types such as polypropylene-however they are physically large and expensive. There are also other factors that determine capacitor quality aligned to the application it is used in too, but in a nutshell ESR is arguably the most important in general in audio. Paul is right about putting a film capacitor in parallel with an electrolytic to lower ESR, however that does not prevent leakage, so a high end design should try to avoid electrolytics. Although if the design is using a linear power supply you really cannot avoid using them on the smoothing section; replacing them with film would be very expensive and you would end up with a box full of capacitors to make up the 100,000uF or whatever you wanted to smooth the DC with. Also note that the better capacitor manufacturers have better noise immunity by better plate design, using higher quality electrolites, and also lower ESR lowers thermal noise. Now why do they sound better?..well thats hard to answer as capacitors are used in many different apps in an electrical circuit; dc blocking, smoothing, filters and so on. So refer to my first paragraph to cover all apps.
I wish I could have had this lesson 30 years ago. Great information presented well.
Paul another highly engaging video, I can't beleave some people give you a Thumbs Down, these people have no idea, keep the good work up👍
I think the reason why people do this is because Paul is not answering the question as well as making some rather large technical explanation mistakes. I like listening to Paul and agree with most things he says in his videos but some are not very good. Entertaining videos though.
What brand and model # of caps do you recommend, nicheon, or ext. For power supply vs. audio path
Ceramic: American Technical Ceramics, AVX, Johanson, Kemet, Knowles, MuRata, Samsung, Taiyo Yuden, TDK, Vishay Vitramon Film: AVX, Cornell Dubilier, Illinois Capacitor, Kemet, Panasonic, Rubycon Aluminum Electrolytic: Cornell Dubilier, EPCOS, Kemet, Nichicon, Panasonic, Rubycon, United Chemi-Con, Vishay Beyschlag Centralab, Würth Mica/Teflon: Cornell Dubilier Tantalum: AVX, Kemet, Vishay Sprague Silicon: MACOM, Skyworks Supercaps: Cornell Dubilier, Eaton, Nichicon, Panasonic, VIshay Beyschlag Centralab
Randy Lott I recommend wima Germany cap's . They sounds like heaven.
Excellent video but I don't think you answered his question, wasn't he asking given the same capacitance as well as all the other parameters like ESR how come film capacitors sound better than electrolytic capacitors ?
I had my Fender Deluxe Reverb in for a upgrading. So called low quality caps were replaced by high quality caps. The guy is supposed to be a certified repairman. However, the amp I got back sounded worse than the one I delivered. My experience so far; be prepared for disapointment.
@@retroflection Might have been that you actually liked the distortion of the original sound better, than the "cleaner" sound? Guitar amps aren't made to perfectly reproduce exactly what is played, but rather add "color/character" to the sound. In a stereo setup you'd want more clinical sound like that of "better" capacitors. I don't know you might already be aware of these things Also I am no expert.
@@gastank43 or maybe those high quality capa have slightly different parameters which does change the sound of the amp. The amp is then 'out of spec' with the designers engineering.
You are such a nice guy! I wish everyone I meet in my daily life is like you 😂 Wish my manager is like you!! Haha.. God bless ya! And thanks for the info!!
BEAUTIFULLY explained to such a novice, as myself, in electronics! Now it makes sense. Thanks! I love your channel.
again, I wanna ask will audio grade capacitor sound different (or better) then cheap ones. if yes, it's a good investment?
the capacitor symbol is theoretic, fictitious , but essential to understanding the electrical behavior of an ideal capacitor . A real, physical capacitor has parasitic elements such as ESR and inductance that change the behavior of a real capacitor when compared to its theoretic behavior. A real capacitor becomes a resonant circuit at some high frequency due to the parasitic inductance. A 100uf electrolytic will resonate with its parasitic inductance at 10khz. In order to maintain the effects of 100uf at frequency above 10khz it is necessary to add a mylar capacitor of say 0.1 uf in parallel which will effectively bypass the 100uf at frequencies above 1khz. m.shen
what he was driving and did not clearly define was that the electrolytic is less efficient in passing audio signals but better at storing a large charge. Audio passed through an electrolytic gets cloudy or dark in the upper frequencies as the bulky materials take longer to charge and discharge and don't track the high frequencies as well. The small signal cap with its thin plastic insulator and super thin foil layer reacts more smoothly and efficiently at high frequencies. Otherwise an excellent presentation. think of it this way you might wear size 10 shoes, but a construction boot and a running shoe will behave differently in walking and running dynamics even though they would both fit you. The smaller lighter materials respond to ac changes faster and with truer fidelity.
also, the conductors in the film capacitor ends are supposed to be connected not to each end of the film but more importantly to each side of the film where the film is supposed to isolate two conducting sides on the film and thus form a capacitor
Jako-Priit Raud FINALLY, a correct answer.
everyone makes mistakes even Paul
mrlithium69 True, and I suppose that when he is doing these on the spot rather than a studied reply he is bound to make a few errors here and there. Overall, Paul does a great job making complex issues more understandable to the layperson.
what uf do you use for low freq (to allow High freq), high freq (to allow low freq)?
General question for anyone on here who can answer. In my crossover schematic, they list the farad value of the capacitors, but they also list a voltage rating for them. As long as I match the farad value and get a capacitor that has an equal or GREATER voltage rating, will it sound the same (or better) than the original old electrolytic cap? Thanks.
We must also consider equivalent series resistance. Because capacity × resistance = a time constant. And 5 times that will give charge or discharge times, which does affect sound quality. .
So which one would I use if I wanted my crossovers in my Kappa7 s redone?
Which capcitor will good for audio coupling 1 stage to other stage 10uf or 22uf
THE REASON IS, ESR OF CAPACITORS - See the explanation given below if needed. 1. Capacitors are meant to block DC and to pass AC. 2. If the frequency of a signal (or current) is Zero Hertz (the unit of frequency) - it is DC. And if the frequency is One or more Hertz, then it is AC. 3. We use capacitors with suitable values to block or pass the some frequencies - Higher capacitance values can pass low-freq signals and vice-versa. 4. The electrical audio signals are AC, varies somewhere between 20Hz to 20,000Hz - Here, the lower frequency signals are supposed to be handled by the Woofers/Sub-Woofers and the higher frequency signals are by Tweeters and the mid frequencies are by Mid-Range speakers. We must pass only the intended frequency range to the respective speaker type, otherwise, it may sound strange. 5. The mentioned "different sound quality" is mostly observed on the low frequency ranges - here reveals the actual problem. 6. All capacitors do have ESR (equivalent series resistance - it is an AC resistance, it decreases with increase in frequency) and this parameter will offer some sort of blocking to the lower frequency signals which pass through it. 7. Since the low frequencies needs much current to be reproduced effectively, the current limiting by ESR will be a villain (bass may not be as deep as expected, with lack of expected current) 8. Also, in crossover networks, we use capacitors to bypass the unwanted frequencies to ground and to pass only the wanted frequencies to output, but, with this ESR, those will not be passed/bypassed effectively, and the speakers which are connected to the output will sound different. 9. Polypropylene capacitors (the small yellow one shown in the video) are at-least 10 times better than electrolytic caps in terms of ESR and hence those are called "audio-grade". (Any caps with lower ESR can be audio-grade in fact)
Yep! And an aged electrolytic cap could "develop" inside a ESR value of several ohms, which may conduct to silent tweeters in speakers. Bought some Telefunken RB 70 speakers (made more than 50 years ago) with dead-like tweeters and with weird sounding low and middle frequencies. After caps changing , the tweeters come to life and the speakers have a very pleasant sound.
So they are better because they cost more? I missed the question answer? Edit, found in comments. Great explanation of what caps basically do for a beginner like myself. Thanks for sharing your knowledge from audio design and manufacture experience. It's one of those, 'Well, if anyone knows...' moments for me.
Thinking about trying this in a pioneer sx-450. Do you have any suggestions?
I appreciate the video and it was, as always, very informative. Maybe I missed the point, but I didn't see where the original question was answered: Given two caps of identical value and specs and type (for example, mylar film or polyester), is there any likely to be any sonic difference (when new) between say, a Sprague cap and some no-name brand ?
any likely to be any sonic difference????
Gerhardt from Calgary, if you're listening, the answer depends on your level of interest and appetite for technical specifics. Capacitors, like cables and connectors, are the things most customers can see or are aware of. Therefore more attention is paid to them because manufacturers are able to convince the customer of their intrinsic value. Much more attention is paid to capacitors than to resistors for example, because resistors are small and difficult to remove. Capacitors are bigger and with some rudimentary soldering skills, can be removed and refitted with newer and more expensive equivalents. In short, it's another example of snake oil on which this industry is built. I design and build my own range of amplifiers that sound lovely and measure beautifully and I couldn't tell you which brand of capacitors I am using; as long as they are the right value, material and spec, I use what I can get quickly from my suppliers. A basic rule of thumb is to use film caps in the audio path rather than foil caps as foil caps can exhibit hysteresis which is where the cap doesn't discharge completely - like stretch marks in your sweater! Explained here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dielectric_absorption .. Hope that helps
This I can attest to, I have rebuilt crossovers with some expensive exotic caps in my Magnepans and they do alter the sound.
Did they improve the sound...or just alter it?
David Myers I've messed with crossovers in a few of my speakers by buying upgraded versions. I would say altered, not necessarily improved. I wouldn't go blowing your budget on things like this.The caps in my Maggie's are Jupiter Beeswax bypassed by Mundorf Silver in Oil. The main thing that changed is it's a whole different design from stock, the crossover.
The "Tip" at the end of the viddy has got me rummaging through my box of spares to find a cap to parallel with some of the cheap stuff they bung in musical instrument amplifiers...especially valve designs. Thanks.
I like Mundorf AG capacitors for PSU. Once burnt in they sound superb
"burnt in"...what is that?
Brilliant! Thanks Paul.
How do you predict where better caps will improve your sound quality? Thanks
i need an advice about capacitors. on my cheap DAC there are two electrolytics 47uF 25v on signal path ( elna silmic II ), can i change it it film capacitor? i saw somewhere that i can use 20 times lower values if i use film capacitors, all i have to do is to find ones with higher voltage. So my question is: is 2.2uF 450VDC film capacitor enough to replace electrolytic one 47uF 25V? i would go for Mundorf Evo oil series, because i see Elna don't make film caps. Thanks!
No, you should not replace a 47uF 25V with a 2.2uf 450V. No you cannot use 20 time lower values if you use film capacitors when replacing caps.
Not just cheaper parts, but different TYPES of capacitors are made for different functions. Use a capacitor in the wrong application and you can introduce massive amounts of distortion, even among the same QUALITY caps. Cannot simply substitute one for another.
ie: ceramic capacitor microphonic effect
mrlithium69 Exactly, Sir.
I found some $20K/mF caps you should use. They are perfect because they cost more. I guarantee it.
Since when did cost or size have ANYTHING to do with how different caps sound?
This is not a description of a capacitor. You need to learn basic electricity theory.
And what's this about passing through the cap ?
Can I Change the capacitors of an small amplifire to make it a bit more powerful ??? Please tell me!!!
Two caps of the same type and same value must sound the same. The more expensive cap might last longer but when the two caps are fresh out of the box they necessarily must sound the same. Different sound indicates different values and if nothing else caps must perform to the stated value regardless of price. Differences in cap style make different sound.
Not really. The more expensive capacitor might be made with better quality materials than the cheaper one of the same type and value. That may result in smaller non-linearities (the change in capacitance with applied voltage) and that is the key factor in how a capacitor "sounds". With electrolytics, even if they are being used just as smoothing capacitors, a better quality one is likely to have a lower ESR than a cheap one with the same capacitance. That might mean a noticeable increase in ripple voltage with the cheap part, and that can cause clipping on loud signals. You'd certainly hear that.
Thanks for sharing. Maybe you could tell about the why the difference in prizing? you can bye two capacitors with exactly the same data and same electrical measurements (i.e. on an oscilloscope) but the one cost 50 cents and the other 50 dollars.
Fried Mule Different materials, construction method, tolerance, voltage capacity.
Because marketing shows that there will be people stupid enough to buy them.
I listened to 10 minutes of this just to not get any answer at the end. In case you were wondering where did those "dislikes" came from, they were from people like me expecting something about non-linear voltage-load ratio, dc leaking and other measurable effects. Not just ""This is 1 dollar a piece, so it sounds better"
Hello, I am planning to replace the electrolytic capacitors in my Grundig R45 receiver and I want to do it right, but before I start replacing them, I decided to refresh my knowledge a bit and expand the information about capacitors used in audio equipment, what they are suitable for, but the amount of information can get confusing. , and I don't want to do it badly and damage the equipment because it defeats the purpose and after watching several of your videos about capacitors used in audio equipment, I decided to ask for advice on what capacitors to use in the mentioned equipment in the power supply systems and in more critical points, i.e. the audio track because I know that the differences are huge, and when making a choice, I want the costs to be optimal in relation to the quality, and the final effect, where I can possibly save money and where it is not worth it. Thank you in advance and best regards for any answer.
Thank you for sharing 🙏🤩
Are any capacitors manufactured using silver or gold? Regardless of the increased cost, would they have different characteristics?
I need to recap my tube amp and tube DAC. I know that I need to replace them by the same capacitance value. One answer I can’t find though is about voltage rating. I’d be grateful if someone can weigh in: I can choose a replacement capacitor of the same voltage or higher. Many of the nice capacitors sometimes have a higher voltage rating. Although from an electrical point of view it is safe to use, is there an effect on the audio quality to replace a cap with higher voltage rating? Thank you!
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