HSS High-Speed Steel? New Sharpening Jig for DIY Watchmaking Lathe Gravers (part 4)
2024 ж. 1 Мам.
493 Рет қаралды
Part 4 in my Watchmaking Lathe & Graver video series...
In this video I 'hone' my sharpening techniques and make a high-speed steel graver from 3/16" steel bar stock, using a bench grinder and 5 different grits of diamond sharpening plates - plus an extra surprise step at the finish. Will I have more success cutting on the lathe than my last lathe video? Watch and see!
Check out the other videos in my watchmaking lathe playlist:
• Watchmaking Lathes
#watchrepair #watchmaking #watchwithmike
Great video.Mike.Thank you.
Thanks Angel! 😄
Well done, Mike you're making good progress. Glad to see my suggestion of using the ali spacer worked 👍
Spacer for the win! It really made a difference! 😄
Hey Mike: My name is Mike also :-). I am also a watchmaker and a musician. I'd love to help you out with your graver endeavor but I don't have any way to take this discussion offline. A couple of things I can mention; You've still got things sort of backwards. The way I was taught to grind lathe tools was to hold the HSS blank BY HAND while grinding. When the blank gets too hot to hold it needs to be dunked in water. Doing that will lessen the chance of drawing the temper down. Secondly, they make grinder angle guides to help you set the angle from the wheel to the tool rest. You ALMOST always want to rest the tool on the tool rest while grinding and have the tool rest as close to the wheel as possible to prevent the "incident" you experienced. So, set the angle from the tool rest to the wheel at 45 degrees (angled AWAY from the wheel), lay the blank on the tool rest so you can control it, and grind. Yes, hog off most of the material at the grinder, finish up on the diamond stone, and hone/polish on hard Arkansas stone for the best cutting edge in my opinion. Another tip: you can grind lathe tools from carbide drill bits, end mills, even if they're round. In fact, having a round graver might actually help cutting conical pivots. You definitely want to find smaller graver blanks. The 3/16" you showed are more suited for use with a cross slide. You really don't want anything more than about 3mm square for watch work. Carbide and Carballoy graver blanks are your friends. Most of the time only a portion of the SIDE of the graver is presented to the work in either a "face up = diamond up" or "face down = diamond down" presentation. Cutting with the very tip, especially with carbide, is usually discouraged. I have used the tip to make a mark on the blue steel for reference but not to actually cut with.
Hi Mike, thanks for all the tips! I will be acquiring smaller steel rods to make into cutters soon. I like your tip about hand holding the steel, and dunking when you can feel it warm up. I am on the fence whether to upgrade my tool rest for the grinder, Or whether to make some kind of jig to help me hold the correct angle. I figured that once I get enough tools for cutting, I will just need to touch them up from time to time… At least that is my hope!
Great stuff man! Glad that spacer worked! I love that sharpening jig! Looks awesome! I think it was the vibration that caused it to loosen. I think that jig was intended to be used by hand so its understandable that it came loose. I think this took a lot of time and elbow grease but the end result is worth it! Take care Mike!
Thanks Johan! I definitely broke the rules how I used that sharpening jig. Glad I didn't break anything else!
Hey Mike! Your simple bent pad on the original tool worked out super nicely it seems. But you got a new tool which is even MORE better.... :D A couple of more things out of this latest video. First, please do not wear fabric gloves at the grinder or at the lathe if you get a chance to run a bigger machine. A touch of your skin might cause an abrasive "strawberry" but it's far better than the fabric gripping the wheel and whipping down into the guard space and twisting the snot out of whichever finger in in that part of the glove. Hands only or at most a very fragile and easy tear glove such as simply solvent handling nitrile gloves. Nothing fabric. Close fitting leather might not be TOO bad but I'm not really sure of that either. Second, with HSS the metal won't grab like some softer alloys might do. So grinding above the axle is fine. And when griding at or above the axle you can then set a close spaced rest which will deflect any parts that jump out of a jig or out of your hand. You are very lucky that the blank did not wedge in more tightly. At BEST it might have ground the wheel to a halt. At worse it might have resulted in shattering the wheel and then heavy pieces would have flown out the front opening. And that's a nasty way to need to change your shorts even if you avoid all contact with the flying pieces. Check out a few videos on wood turning tool sharpening and you'll see how the tools aways are pointed up and contact the wheel above the axle. And if you were to build a bigger tool rest the bar on that jig could rest on the table rest and use a clamp on stop so the jig sits in the same position. You still want to slide it back and forth across the wheel's face. But it would always stay in the same geometry even after dipping. And in effect you'd have a jig similar to that used by the wood turners. Third, don't worry about a little blue on HSS. It's called High Speed Steel because it is tolerant of being heated up in use even to a dull red. It won't last long at that heat but it's full restored as it cools. So a little blue on HSS means less than nothing in terms of any harm to the steel. Fourth, On the honing. In the video if you look at time stamp 15:12 when you are showing off the nicely polished face. Notice the bright white lines at the edges of the diamond face? That's where the soft leather and the way you stropped it sideways piled up and rounded off your neatly sharpened off the last diamond plate sharp edges. What you were doing is much the same as someone stropping a knife if they drew it back off the leather than pushed it ahead and cut into the leather. And while the edge angle is too blunt to cut into the leather it would roll the soft leather up in a little wave and round the edge that was just stropped on the draw side of the point. I'm sure that is why you still had to push fairly hard at the stock in the lathe. But hey, it looks like you're much better with the cutting edge positioning. Even with the honed dull edges from the leather you were getting curls. So you're well on the way. The way out of this soft leather stropping issue is to switch to a hardwood such as maple for your stropping board. No leather, just the wood. Charge the face of the wood with the polishing compound. And do not slide the face of the tool sideways like you were. You want to only draw back so the two cutting edges at the end are only pulled across the surface and never pushed. So don't slide it sideways but pull it off to the side. And don't go over the edge and snap down since that would dull the extreme tip. Just pull back and leave the full face on the surface, lift slightly for the return then press lightly and draw back again. A few of those and you should be able to see a shiny face wtih no hint of a bright line at the edge of the face diamond. This total lack of a glint line is the same as we look for when sharpening a knife. So go back to the second finest plate for a little, then the finest plate. Then deburr as you did on that finest plate. Then to the lathe and you should be getting curls with only light pressure. Sorry for having written another "book". But dang it, you're SO close! These are all tricks and techniques I've picked up from my other shop stuff that covers just about everything other than the small jeweler's lathe. But soon....
Hi Bruce, thank you so much for the detailed suggestions! I can visualize everything that you are saying, and I'm going to give them a try. You have encapsulated many points that other people have brought up, and condensed them into a very good synopsis! I'm especially looking forward to trying the compound on wood instead of leather. I feel like I am close… 😄
Great job !!!! and yes your going to want some much smaller HSS rod for gravers I wouldent use the leather strop to finish the graver, its going to round over your cutting edge. AKA dulling your cutting edge and point.
Hi Sonny, I think you're on point (no pun intended) with the advice not to use the strop. It made it pretty, but I also think it rounded it off like you said. I'm seeing/reading that an Arkansas stone might be better for final polish. Need to shop some more, I guess! 😄
@@WatchWithMike I get very good results using a good quality (some of the cheaper ones are junk) fine Arkansas stone. Some of the hard white ones are good enough, a black or translucent one gives a finer finish. For sharpening gravers, you should be using the stone with oil. You’ve got enough oil when you can see streaks of oil bleed out of the stone as the graver tip passes. There are some videos on KZhead where you can see this clearly. Try to find a way to sharpen gravers reasonably quickly. HSS gravers can blunt quite fast, especially when you’re learning to turn. Ideally you want 5-10 sharp HSS gravers ready to use so you can switch to a sharp one the moment the one you’re using gets dull. You’ll be far less likely to try to use a dull graver if you can just reach for another sharp one, as opposed to stopping your turning and getting out your sharpening gear.
@@mercuriall2810 Great points! I did another sharpening session with oil on a variety of different gravers, including the carbide Waller ones I showed previously. Messier, but it did the trick. I've been acquiring a variety of cutters behind the scenes and experimenting. I think an Arkansas stone would be a good investment. And I agree that it is best to pre-sharpen a bunch so you don't have to stop what you're working on! 😄
@@WatchWithMike Here is the thing. for a good cutting edge you Do Not need a polished surface. you want a little tooth to the edge 1200 is highest id suggest going. and you want your grain to be opposite of what your doing. drag with cutting tip parallel with sharpening plate.
@@sonnymoorehouse1941 interesting point about leaving some tooth on the edge. The tutorials I have watched often talk about getting a mirror finish, which is the opposite. Also, that sharpening jig doesn't let you run the full length of the stone front to back, since the heel rests on the table adjacent to the stone. i'm trying to figure out why that would matter! 😮
Mike I was stunned to see you hand holding the graver while sharpening. You need to purchase a tool rest attached to the grinder before you use the grinder again. Just my thought.
Hi Patrick, this is such a debated topic! I just replied to a comment that recommended hand holding, with the benefit being that you can feel when the steel is heating up. When I was using the grinder, I did have the holding jig on the tool rest which helped. But it wasn't next to the wheel… If it was then my graver probably would not have gotten sucked into the grinder! With mistakes there comes knowledge… Thanks for your suggestions! 😄
Mike, My concern still stands, free handling is dangerous just like the incident showed. As for feeling the temperature I use the table and hold the graver, I sure do feel the heat. I also watched you when you first got your lathe and I laughed when I say your excitement. Then I remembered my 1st lathe and cutting nails just to use it. Through the years I have purchased several cross slids, collet holding tail stock everything. Now when I need a tool I just pull the tool out of my drawer. You need to buy these tools as you see the and pay what it takes. Great fun. Patrick
@@patrickspencer4360 that's a big YES to getting more tools and attachments… Empowerment! I have never machined metal before, but now I am walking around looking at how things are made, and thinking that I can do it myself. "How do I make that?..." Practice! 😀
@@WatchWithMike Mike, It has taken me over 45 years of buying machines and tooling. Making one same part takes enormous amount of tools. Now some unsolicited advice, if I could do it all over again I would buy a Sherline lathe and tooling. NOT CHEAP but in the long run cheaper. Buy collets in the size of the materials available for the craftsman. 1/8, 1/4, 3/8 you get the idea. If I had to replace my boley tooling it would be in the 6 to 10 thousand and thats only if you can find the tools. Price a crossslide, a collet holding tail stock not to even getting into the collets. 80 plus of them used 10 dollars. I have a full set. Chucks, 3jaw 4 jaw all you'll need. Again if the Sherline was available when I started thats the way to go. Let me know if I am boring you or out of line and I won't bother you again. If that is not the case l would like to show you some of my tooling if you want to share your email. Patrick
@@patrickspencer4360 Hi Patrick, coincidentally I just bought 2 new used items that will get me closer to my goals. One is a bigger set of collets. Two (somewhat of an impulse buy) is a Unimat lathe that can do bigger metal working and doubles as a mill. Not quite a Sureline, for sure!
Good job Mike! Sonny Moorehouse makes an important point regarding the leather strop - it will round the corners. It mightn’t be visible to the naked eye, but it’s unavoidable. One important point regarding grinder safety - you should never wear gloves when using a grinder or any other tool with a spinning part(circular saws for example) that can snag or grab onto the glove and then pull your whole hand into harm’s way.
Yes I agree with you and Sonny, and the strop won't get used again for gravers! Good point about gloves, I was being chicken, thinking that what did happen might happen, and not wanting to take a flying graver in the palm. I'm mostly a woodworking guy, so this is new territory for me...sharing my trials and tribulations, and appreciating the comments and suggestions! 😄
@@WatchWithMike Speaking of gravers in palms, it would be safer to put a handle on the graver instead of just tape. It doesn’t have to be a wooden graver handle, a wine or champagne bottle cork or for thinner gravers a pin vise works well. I knew someone who habitually used a lump of old rodico as a graver handle until the work grabbed the graver and stuck it through their hand.
@@mercuriall2810 good point and something to think about! 👍🏼
@@WatchWithMike Anything that is comfortable to use and will prevent the graver being pushed into your hand should it catch on the work will do. Even wrapping the end with several layers of paper and securing it with tape should work. The only other safety precaution that comes to mind when turning is eye protection and keeping your hand away from the parts that spin - when using collets there is little cause for concern, but a knuckle getting hit by a 3 jaw faceplate can really ruin your day.
@@WatchWithMike Anything that is comfortable to use and will prevent the graver being pushed into your hand should it catch on the work will do. Even wrapping the end with several layers of paper and securing it with tape should work. The only other safety precaution that comes to mind when turning is eye protection and keeping your hand away from the parts that spin - when using collets there is little cause for concern, but a knuckle getting hit by a 3 jaw faceplate can really ruin your day.
Great video Mike. Can one simply purchase a carbide graver to save yourself the trouble, or is this a rite of passage to do lathe work?
Hi Jimmy, They say that even if you buy factory fresh gravers, you should sharpen them, and regularly hone to keep a fresh edge. I have to say that, even though it takes a long time, I enjoy the process. Carbide seems like the perfect no-fuss easy maintenance solution, but if you want to make specially shaped cutters, high-speed steel is much easier to work with, and is the way to go. At this point in my practice I want to try a variety of cutters to see what I like. I have a feeling that the more I practice sharpening, the more I am going to like the flexibility of shaping high-speed steel to make customized cutters for a variety of purposes . Now that I gave you that long-winded answer, I suppose I am honoring a right of passage like you suggested. 😁
@@WatchWithMike Thanks Mike. Keep these videos coming. I might not be far behind in getting a lathe.😁
16:41 Is this a tutorial on how to make miniature brass balloon poodles? 😂😂😂
lol, I'm just glad it cut! I can also do a giraffe and a snake.