This and That: 2019 U.S. Figure Skating Championships (Nathan Chen, Alysa Liu, Jason Brown)
On this episode of "This and That," Scott Dyer joins us to break down the action from the 2019 U.S. Figure Skating Championships. Alysa Liu made history by becoming the youngest senior champion ever, while Nathan Chen, Madison Hubbell and Zachary Donohue and Ashley Cain and Tim LeDuc also earned gold at Nationals. Mariah Bell, Bradie Tennell, Jason Brown, Vincent Zhou, Ting Cui, and Madison Chock and Evan Bates also achieved standout performances in Detroit.
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Time stamps! 3:11 - Alysa Liu 15:43 - Bradie Tennell 26:11 - Mariah Bell 29:24 - Ting Cui 33:04 - Gracie Gold NYTimes article 38:30 - rest of the ladies' field (Hannah Harrell, Starr Andrews, Amber Glenn) 42:30 - Scott's thoughts on developing basic skating skills 45:48 - Nathan Chen 47:03 - Jason Brown 48:14 - Vincent Zhou 51:34 - Jason Brown again 54:27 - Tomoki Hiwatashi 57:30 - rest of the men's field 58:18 - Nathan vs Hanyu 1:01:58 - Deanna Stellato/Nathan Bartholomay 1:06:35 - Alexa/Chris Knierim 1:12:26 - Denney/Frazier 1:15:45 - Nate Bartholomay's posture problems 1:19:19 - Tarah Kayne/Danny O'Shea 1:27:30 - Cain/LeDuc 1:32:29 - Hubbell/Donohue 1:37:33 - Chock/Bates 1:40:54 - Hawayek/Baker 1:42:05 - McNamara/Carpenter 1:43:27 - Manta/Johnson 1:45:32 - moments of the week 1:49:38 - Russian Junior Nationals
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alysa liu is an absolutely adorable and talented little peanut, but i do worry about the immense pressure that comes from being a national champion so young. she has such a lovely bright personality on and off the ice and i hope she has a good circle of people around her to keep her healthy and grounded as she moves into the jgp circuit. i do fully think the title would’ve gone to mariah or bradie had they not had mistakes in the free, though, and that was the expectation. i wouldn’t have minded - mariah is a gorgeous expressive ray of sunshine on the ice and although i’m typically not a fan of bradie i thought her short program was amazing at nationals. really a shame things didn’t go so well in the free for her. all this and i haven’t even watched the video yet, lmao. i got a little overexcited.
Anyone else feel like the mics at US nationals were super hot? Even smaller movements on ice were very audible and the moments before the kiss and cry as well. I loved to hear tracy talking to Jason after his short tho, no lie
Alysa should not be attempting quads right now. I’d love to see her work on her triple axel technique, because she takes off at almost a standstill. She will be on the Junior Circuit next year, competing against Kamila Valieva. In my opinion Valieva is far ahead of Liu when it comes to skating skills and performance. She did a great job, no doubt, but there’s a lot of work to be done before quads come in the picture.
Kamilia will win it in the short. There will be a 10+ point difference between Alysa and Kamilia after the short that a 3A won't be able to close in the free.
So confused by that technique! Doesn't losing your momentum make the triple axel much harder? But then again, maybe the fact that she can jump in spite of the slow down is a testament to her talent. I'd want to see every single triple looking reliably solid and fully rotated before quads come into the picture.
@@himetsuki whats all this but but but... Shes only 13!!! Why are people expecting she should be skating like a 20 yo
Because of Kostornaya and Trusova. Even Trusova was much better than Liu in PCS department at 13.
@@SergejKrolik Good point. And that's not even mentioning the Japanese ladies who almost always have strong basics (espeicially when it comes to knee bend).
Haha! Was just going to shut things down & then....THIS..I need my This & That. Not addicted at all.
I have no problem admitting I am addicted to this show. Thank you Dave and Jonathan!
I know Alysa skated well & amazing to land the 3axel, but her jumps were kinda small and her skating skills & program components wasnt as good as Mariah or Bradie. For me, Mariah was the champion, she had improved so much, Mature & beautiful program , beautiful jumps and spins and skating. Looking forward to watch her in the Worlds.
Mi Lim Alyssa was clean, but her jumps are average and some are under rotated. Her skating skills are just average, I wouldn’t give her more than 7 in any of the 5 components. Which is reasonable , given that she is a 13 yo Novice.
Reminds me of Tara skating
Mi Lim I totally agree with u and I think Mariah really deserves it because she has been on senior level for much a longer time than Alysa
@@JustSmileBiitch i was surprised why Alysa is competing on Senior levels in nationals at the age of 13. They really have different bodies.
@@nicolechan4807 Mariah was captivating that night. Mature & Beautiful.
Last year pre-OG, Nathan and Hanyu had to endure some of the worst scrutiny from the media and social media alike. Nathan, hyped up as the inventor of figure skating by US media, imploded during his SP and Hanyu admitted to feeling the lowest he's ever felt before the Olympics having to face comments from people (including some Japanese media) hoping he would lose/accusing him of lying about his injury/telling him he should go kill himself while dealing with the anxiety surrounding his injury. Fast forward a year later, and we have learned nothing. It's the same Nathan versus Hanyu bullshit all over again with a hyped up Nathan (care of NBC) and an injured Hanyu. I just hope that both skaters will skate to the best of their abilities at Worlds. I hate that they both have to go through this whole media circus act all over again.
Amen to this comment.
Amen
their both diffrent skaters really also Nathan is facing the challnge by juglling Yale and skating the the USA Media and fans worried how he will do this season by the two but it's his life he might just ignore the media about it plus last year on socai media or the media their is always tonis and he a smart kid
So... I realize Nathan gets the bigger TES... But... Am I the only one who doesn’t get IT? Like, I don’t get how we’re comparing the SS of a Nathan and a Yuzu. Or a Nathan and a Javi. And Yuzu brings some crazy and innovative and ground-breaking jumps. Yes, Nathan was great at Nationals, and much improved, but I don’t see him in the same league as Yuzu, even if he can score more points and technically beat him.
@@meaganbooks179 Not to discredit Nathan but other skaters go to school and juggle everything else too, he's not the only one lol
I just love honest analysis. Bless. This is the right approach. Not shady. Just honest. Love it.
KennyDreadfuls
JASON WAS FABULOUS!
That short!
You have rescued me from listening to my sons watch KZhead videos of other people playing video games they own. So thank you! 😊
:) You're welcome.
That's a thing? Ugh. I'm sorry!
TB ugh yes. They watch the silliest things. Other kids opening Christmas gifts, playing video games, product reviews of again toys they already have, it’s so stupid. 🙄
@@lauriebrewer4724 And I thought I watched stupid stuff!
Laurie Brewer I have a husband who watched the silliest things too! 🙄
Huge smile when i saw this was uploaded. 😀 So happy you guys are back!
Sue Olson
did you hear the crowd boo when chock/bates received their scores??? I was only watching on tv but it felt like the crowd really wanted c/b national champions over h/d, and I agreed
Rocking the boat won’t create calm water.
I didn't hear any boos, but there were some humphs.
i was there and definitely heard boos then too
So happy with this upload! Thank you! 🤗🙏🇵🇹
Had to cut out watching Super Bowl to watch The Skating Lesson! Good decision! 😆
Habitually checking KZhead for this video!! Yass🙌🏻🙌🏻
:)
Yay! Looking forward to watching this!! Thank you!!
The reason why Johnny got hate message wasn't because he said Nathan could beat Hanyu or Nathan might win World's, but he said he "couldn't imagine Hanyu beat Nathan"..... it's not even an open statement. It doesn't matter if somebody else said that but Johnny is Hanyu's idol so his words will affect him.... Anw I personally believe Nathan could beat Hanyu and Hanyu could beat Nathan,until the last performance Hanyu never performed his FS clean so Nathan has a big opportunity, esp with 4Lz that Hanyu doesn't have, but who knows, may the best win
Hanyu has two Olympic Gold Medals. Johnny has a world bronze medal because someone too many combinations. I think Hanyu will be just fine :)
He will make comments the way round when he faces the Japanese medias and to all the Japan Ice shows audiences. He is just a joke.
TheSkatingLesson LOL love it.
If both were 100% clean as Nathan was here, it's hard to say. depends on what each one did and where they skated. If it was in the US Nathan would likely get the edge.
@@marycoyne1889 the judges draw is out and even tho the Worlds will be in Japan, thre will be no judge from Japan, US and Russia. It will be interesting
I just wanted to pop in and say to Dave, I have really been appreciating the TSL email list! I get the email from the email list waaay before my youtube notification pops up and it's nice to have the extra bits of info from TSL
Glad you enjoy it!
hey! where can i sign up for the email list? Would love to get updates as well
Aya email me. theskatinglesson@gmail.com
chock and bates gave me life.
Dave I was hoping you'd post tonight...literally said YES aloud when I got the notification. Thank you thank you!
Enjoy!
Ditto.
Thank you as always!
You're welcome!
8:59 the men describe but fail to title “The Sotnikova Effect.” It’s when PCS are bumped by the energy in audience who have presupposed expectations that history could be made with this performance.
Keep doing what you’re doing... your show is awesome!!!
Kate Holcomb thank you!
Thank you. Scott is a joy to listen to: please have him back!
He will be back!
I've been entirely too excited for this. ❤️😁
:)
Thank you, guys, for this!
Scott was such a lovely addition! I've been looking forward to this video and it was well worth the wait 😊
We will bring him back!
I needed this today. Great as always.
Shannon S
Great episode guys!
Looking forward to watching this. :) Thank you!
You're welcome!
Have Scott on again, just loved him..and he's adorable!
Marylou Reiff we will!
Bradie is so consistent when she practices.... She skates beautifully and hope she will be more consistent when she competes. She works SO hard....
Rachel Chang She really does work hard. I think the placement at Nationals will give her some fire for Four Continents and to claim a gold there would be well deserved. We’ll just have to wait and see...
In preparation for the Super Bowl, I will listen to TSL!!!! :-)
Brent's Lucky Slot Channel
What's a Super Bowl?
Snaps to Nathan. I totally got it! Love “Men On...” Love that you know about it!
Thanks for this video guys! I've been waiting for your take on the event. I think as wonderful as Alyssa is, it is too early to think of her as the Second Coming or something. She is just 13, any many things van happen from here to 2022. I did like and appreciate that her programs were age appropriate and she can grow artistically from here. I saw much improvement from Bradie from a year ago, she needs that fire to want to show that she deserves to be in the top US spot. Mariah has all the ingredients to be a champion. The FS score was huge (I know national scores are most of the time inflated), but if she had a stronger consistency, she could win a national title.
My god, Dave...sometimes I almost think you aren’t scheduling your life around pleasing us. I’ve been waiting for this video for FAR too long! Better late than never I guess. ;)
We had a change in scheduling the other day. We were thrilled to be able to get Scott to join us this weekend.
Loving it! Glad it was delayed.
The Ice Age show is amazing! I can't stop watching it now.
PwT
This got me so amped up for the Yuzu vs Nathan showdown
the very first time since the olympics games
I was so excited to watch Nathan Chen's free skate. Especially the stepsequence. *Fangirl mode activated!!* I was like.. "Ooooo!!!! This guy really takes notes!" Cause he was there in Rostelecom to watch the others and especially Hanyu. It's normal to be worried about Nathan facing challenges to train while attending university but he is ONE TENACIOUS competitor. His presentation seems so mature and different compared to his pre-Olympics or Olympic programmes. This is really exciting. Every day, I wake up to find news about Yuzuru Hanyu cause I just pray for him to be healthy and happily in shape. The top men are going to pack a tough competition for him and he's gonna love it. I am really excited for Worlds right now cause the men are really upping their game. This is sports and I adore the current competition!
well i believe Nathan knows but he loves and it's his life Yale Education is really important to his family also Yuzuru Hanyu is his idol plus he won't do the 4CC even it's in CA USA Fans might worried but they can't do anything about it just respect him and i hope he dose his best that's
i think Mariah is always destined to break my heart. 😭
Such a gorgeous skater!
Cornelian, she is always so close. She is one of my favorite skaters and I wish she'd just kill both programs
She's my new Sasha
Same!
'Two snaps up!' for this edition ;-) Really enjoyed the discussion, as this year's U.S. championships really gave us a bit of everything--truly 'the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat'.
Great video. Just heard that Alysa is a huge fan of team Eteri, and she studies their videos to improve her jump techniques. Hope to see her more in the future.
yayyy I’ve been waiting to hear your opinions on this! 🙏🏾
Scott was such a delightful guest. He comes across so well
jeff brown we loved having him on and will bring him back!
Madi & Zach doing Fosse would make my life complete! I too have not liked their free this season but I still adore them. Madi & Evan made me very happy this competition, it’s so nice to have them back and Montreal is a great look on them.
20 minutes in and anxiously awaiting the discussion of the wildly unexpected pairs performances
AND not disappointed...I almost spit out my tea when Scott was talking about everyone skating with their mouths open. There was also so much mid-program on ice conversation going on out there. Chris did a lot of explaining to Alexa during that free skate!
Thank you Jonathan for mentioning that the US pairs have differences in terms of height and distance on their throws. They are all scored too similarly at US Nationals. I wasn’t thrilled by the missed under-rotations and overall lax judging of the pairs event. Maybe they should bring in an international panel. Cain and LeDuc were the only team who delivered really, but let’s not pretend their pair elements are that strong.
Yay I was really hoping you'd do a US Nationals vid x x x
:)
Thank you! I hope when you will talk about Russian Juniors Nats you will mention Ksenia Sinitsina, she took 4th place after the super trio.
Ashley Cain is barely squeaking by on some of the pair elements and yet she seemed to have twice the confidence of Alexa Knierim at this event. Alexa is very talented and needs her fire back. The Knierims have to be patient with this process. There was too much going on this season with them moving to a different country in September and then switching coaches midseason. It looks like they've been trying to reverse or change some of the technical things Aljona had them doing that they weren't comfortable with. Alexa seemed rattled after their triple twist went wrong. But I think this was more than just a mental thing. They've been legitimately making changes to their elements and technique in a way that you normally wouldn't midseason. Their demeanor at this event did seem off and a bit unfocused. For a pair that has never had an ounce of lift trouble, they should have looked shocked after a skate in which they missed two lifts, but for some reason they didn't look surprised by it. Maybe his wrist has been more of an issue than they've let on. I also think they should change the Bruno Massot one-arm lift as it seems like it could get off balance on the takeoff. It's odd to hear of a skater needing wrist surgery, I wonder what Aljona had them doing. I'm curious how Cain and LeDuc do under the pressure of Worlds as the only US pair there. Her concussion situation seemed to alleviate some of the pressure at Nationals and got them back into more of a underdog role. But at Worlds it will be a different story.
Why don't Alexa and Chris beat up all the teams who finished ahead of them so they can go to Worlds?
Thanks for the links to the Ice Age Russian shows. The pairs kids and mozart kid! The judges and Zyena!!!!Quite something to behold. Complusive viewing despite not having a clue what they were saying.
Karen Keating 💯
Omg. The magnifying glass!😵☠️💀☠️💀👽☠️💀
KennyDreadfuls 💯
Dave, waiting for you to do a teaching video on the Rhythm Dance and all its requirements. The notations like hieroglyphics, I need you to break it all down the way you did jump features for +5/-5.
after being a fan for such a long time, my highlight of nationals was kaitlin and jean-luc FINALLY getting a medal!
Tuktamysheva's 3axel is completely different technique - she has a huge kick through and step up, very much like most men do it. Liu's 3axel is more like Asada and Kihira. If Liu's axel looked like Tuk's, I would be much more confident in the jump surviving puberty.
Precisely, couldn't agree more
Also, loved the In Living Color reference - what a Wayans family gem
Wish you had commented on Andrew Austin - I wasn't familiar with his back story (of having lost a ton of weight in the past year), but it gave us all warm fuzzies when they covered it on Skate Radio. LOVE that you think of Whitney as Deanna's prom song. Was thinking the same, especially as she's mouthing the words during the lifts. You know she practices that move with the back of her hair brush.
Two reasons i support Bradie’ Lutz Loop. 1- it’s the first year of a quadrennial. Now is the time to get it out. 2- if she plays it safe and does well, it almost reinforces a less aggressive approach.
I'm not sure she has 4 years with her back. This is really her moment to go for it. I think she should keep training it, but go for consistency at Worlds.
TheSkatingLesson disagreeing only because i want to see her for 4 years. You do have a point, unfortunately
I was so pissed when I found out Deanna and Nate did not get the 4cc spot:( I really really loved Bradie's short, that was my favorite nationals moment:) Thanks for posting!
While I don't think Tarah and Danny have been that much better than Deanna and Nate internationally this season, I do you should have to get even just one solid international score before being sent to 4CC. Fans tend to really overvalue US Nationals skates.
Scott really well articulated what bugs me about Bradie's choreography in the long program.
Hooray for your return!! 😃… Re: H&D's disjointed FS -> **le sigh** … I just don't see the conceptual through-line between that grandiose intro and the "Kissing You" love story we actually watch play out. Like, if you're going to tease this tragic love story of *epic* proportion via prologue -> you'd better give me a tragedy worthy of such dramatic opening music-or don't promise it. Especially if it's just a clunky way to signal _'Romeo + Juliet Program'_ - to make us do the heavy lifting / fill in your storytelling gaps… H&D have such a unique fusion of raw, earthy power + a knack for subtlety and nuance-but this program almost seems designed to thwart any chance to showcase everything that makes this team so very special. Even these characters feel forced to me-like two great actors who've been terribly miscast and who, despite their best effort, still can't salvage the project. Madison deserves someone more complex than this cartoon Juliet (i.e., all *wide-eyed loving* + *oops-now-I'm-dead* - oh, plus her cameo in that opening 'trailer' for, like, some random epic action movie[??] that *certainly* had _nothing_ to do with "Kissing You"-the _Lifetime Original_ romantic *weepie* we tuned in to see…) Just such a total miss for me. I really hope it doesn't jeopardize the momentum / goodwill they've built up over recent seasons… It just seems not-implausible that even with two clean(ish) skates, they could find themselves buried at World's beneath two Russian teams and maybe even a Canadian.
*Thought:* wouldn’t it be way more interesting/unexpected if it were *Zach* [/Romeo] who died in his partner’s arms at the end-with Juliet’s own imminent suicide implied during the closing notes of “Missing You”? [It would be no less faithful to the source material].
probably behind the French team, and hopefully the Canadian teams (or even the Russians or chock and bates), which I would totally support as this year H&D is not doing it for me
Also, I think it may be a shoma vs yuzuru vs nathan showdown if shoma can peak. Don't count shoma out
But shoma has high spins and footwork and PCS. If nathan and yuzuru make mistakes and shoma only makes 1 or 2, he can win@asilem
Depends on severity of flaws. Nathan beat shoma at gpf 2016, 2017 but shoma beat nathan at worlds 2017 and olympics 2018@asilem. Shoma has PCS and spins over nathan. nathan (i suspect) has a higher bv over shoma. So it will come down to who misses more, GOE on all elements, PCS, etc.
I know nathan beat shoma at worlds 2018, but shoma was injured. Nathan, I suspect, may not have felt as much pressure at 2018 worlds given it was a post olympic worlds and when he had to skate, everyone failed before him. I wonder if nathan gets more nervous for big events (other worlds, olympics) and if so, has he grown and is now better adjusted to handle such nerves. Shoma seems to handle the pressure better. However, I do wonder if shoma is on the decline after the olympics, but I would not count him out of the world title. I suspect, based off tradition, he would get 2nd (because he just does) with nathan and shoma getting 1st or 3rd (do not know the order)
In terms of pressure, Shoma feels less pressure whenever Yuzuru competes cos the media attention, pressure goes to Yuzuru 1st. This is by Shoma's own admission in interviews. At WC 2018, Shoma was the main Japan man, the bulk of the pressure fell on him. He was injured yes, but the pressure/responsibility of retaining the 3 spots was still there While Nathan is the main men's single for USA, he is the one bearing the main responsibility. Under the new rules, Worlds will be the 1st time Yuzuru, Nathan, Shoma will compete together. I think for Nathan & Shoma it will be abt who handles the pressure better. For Yuzuru, his physical condition.
Nah it's more Yuzuru vs Nathan
For once I was glad to hear the Y&R theme because it meant this was finally up!
You are constantly criticizing Trusova for bad prerotating jumping technique and juniorish programs. Still Liu with blatantly kiddy programs, poor skating skills and terrible 2.8Axels suddenly has great performance and decent technique )) Again hypocrisy at their worst. If judged fairly - Harrell should be at least 3rd and Liu shouldn't be on the podium. It's just that USFed so desperatly needs to create their own star and artificial story of success that they are willing to exploit even kids when they are obviously not ready for that. I strongly suspect that there were some deals behind the scenes with several sponsors/media companies to make a scoop even before the skate of Liu - and Tech Panel was instructed to not notice Liu's URs if she don't fall. I believe that such approach is actually harmful for US skating. They are always too hasty to boast their achievements even if they are not solidified yet (like it was last season with Bradie) - and it's gonna bite them in the back again and again. It would be much more wise move to investing resources in slow and steady developing of skating schools and couches instead of relying on one lucky talent. P.S.: here is more objective review of USNat IMO kzhead.info/sun/hsd9psath6V_apE/bejne.html (use captions and automatic google translate to understand atleast something - if you are curious enough.. also mushrooming means overscoring in russian skating slang)
Thank you. For all of this, thank you. Well said.
Trusova is nearly a senior. Liu isn't even a junior yet.
I compared Liu with Trusova in previous season when she was 13 y.o. - the same as Liu.
SergejKrolik I think they’re similar right now tbh. I don’t think Trusova is a more mature skater than Liu by any means, even though she’s older. This is all irrelevant anyway considering the way PCS is scored nowadays.
lol, no Trusova now is much better in skating skills, performance, interpretation, composition and transitions than Liu. Anyone with common sense wouldn't argue with that, I hope. And it isn't because Trusova is that good in PCS department.
Drop dead gorgeous is also my favorite comedy! My best friend and I have a yearly watch party with WAY too much wine. True story.
I'll be delighted to hear what you think of Ice Age Kids! It's all on youtube for free, and I watched it with the terrible autogenerated subtitles. Worth the total confusion, the kids are amazing! Especially Sofia Akatieva, part of Eteri's next gen. (Great episode here too!)
OMG I JUST got to the point where Jonathan went FULL INSPECTOR CLOUSEAU and held up the magnifying glass saying "well, when *I* went back and took a second look....". I DIED. DEAD. SHUT IT DOWN. OMG I PEED. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!
Pairs was my least anticipated division to watch but oh boy was it a doozy. I shamelessly love Ashley and Tim and I’m glad they won, I just hope they don’t crash from this high. Their win was my moment aside from Nathan and his GORGEOUS quad lutz. Like, wow, boy really got that jump back. I agree with scott about Tarah... her crying on the ice and wailing in the K&C was very bizarre.
The personalities in pairs are Must See TV.
Tarah is like that girl in college who is majoring in communications but should probably be studying marketing. The challenge is that she can’t pass calculus so she can’t get into the business school. She also rushed a sorority but decided to drop out of recruitment because she knew none of the top houses wanted her.
SayYesToAwesome As someone who was a math minor and tutored some potential business school kids in calc and who was in a sorority... this is so accurate.
Great show - although there was no comment on my favourite moment: Mariah Bell in the K&C trying to get Rafael to smile and celebrate her performance rather than be so upset about her one mistake. She had me laughing out loud - her joyful attitude makes her my favourite! On a side note, what’s going on in Jonathon’s living room at about 54:30. There’s another person being reflected in the window that is making him smile:)
Patriots Coach Belichick just cleared the room to get some quality T&T before the game.
:)
What I’m confused about re: Gracie is, following Vincent’s Instagram, it doesn’t seem to me like she’s landing the 3-3 yet... I’d guess all the skating nerds on here follow the same stuff and feel similarly, but wasn’t Vincent posting her doing a 3S well after CoR? If she’s just now landing 3S then why did she have 3L-3T and 3F in her SP back in the fall? Why isn’t she training easier technical content, like Polina did last season? That’s what I don’t get... As a disordered eater her NYT article was *really* significant to me. I know TSL ain’t the forum for praising Ashley, but bravo to her for being the one who spoke up to a federation official (must’ve been awkward so soon post-Boston). On another topic: Why was Maria Sotskova allowed to compete at US Nationals under the name “Amber Glenn” :-)
And Vincent's "Gracie's first off-ice training!" insta which was also posted well after Russia.. What on Earth was she doing at a Grand Prix having done no physical training beforehand?? Were they not being honest and realistic with her about her readiness, or did Gracie just refuse to listen to them? Idk that whole situation is a little concerning to me.
Shanna Wallace It’s sounded like she went against their advice. What I don’t understand, which I think Dave and Jonathan also reflected on in their Rostelecom recap, is why she didn’t ask USFS for a bye to Nationals without doing a GP... The NYT article said she entered CoR in order to qualify for Nationals, but, like, wouldn’t they’ve been more keen on letting her compete once she’s, like, training jumps? I don’t get it...
Does anyone else have to turn off their AmazonHome/EcoDot thing during pairs recap?
Yay!
:)
Omg I was sad for Saturday now I’m saved!
Ben Ben
Does anybody know how the worlds spot system works? Like, how high you have to place to 3 spots and so on.
To get three spots, the top two finishers' placements must add to 13 or less. Bradie and Mariah can be 6+7, 5+8, 4+9, etc. In pairs, in order to get two spots, Ashley and Tim must finish in the top 10.
Will you do a T&T about these “skating parties”?
Good episode. The pairs scoring was absurd. Haven didn't rotate her 3S and someone even gave them a +3 for those tiny single axels. Tarah was getting +5s for tiny throws. It seemed as long as you didn't fall down or have a big error, you got a huge score, and there was very little differentiation between okay, good, and great elements. Alexa & Chris have by far the best twist in the US, and you wouldn't know it with the way all the top US pairs got +3s, +4s, +5s on that element. It's one thing to inflate Nathan Chen's score to an absurd level, but it's another when you're inflating scores of all your pair teams that don't usually score all that well internationally. It feels like we let the audience judge pairs some of the time too. As someone who is educated about pair skating, US Nationals scoring is frustrating. When Denney & Frazier and Stellato & Bartholomay scored in the 130s in the free skate (internationally, D/F haven't broken 120 in years and S/B haven't broken 120 in their career), I just threw up my hands and accepted that US Nationals scoring is a crock. Maybe some of the extreme inflation was a result of Alexa & Chris not having a good skate and wouldn't have happened otherwise, but in any event, it was hard to figure out. Even if A/C had had a decent free skate, it seems like it would have been harder for them to move up than it would have been in an international event because of how inflated the scoring of the final group was. This event used to be scored sensibly but now everyone's weaknesses seem to get ignored as long as they don't fall down. How do you even pick teams for Worlds and Four Continents based on scoring that isn't real. The chemistry between Alexa & Chris and Jenni & Todd did seem odd. They seem to be quite happy together behind the scenes and I can only hope that's the case. But if things are awkward at the competitions, that could be affecting their mental state when they compete. Maybe it's just because the arrangement is new, but it was odd seeing A/C trying to lighten the mood after their free skate and their coaches being virtually unresponsive. At least Dalilah used to talk to them. I just hope things settle down for them this offseason and they find happiness with their coaching situation.
Thank you for calling out the ridiculous judging. I heard that Russian Nationals was bad too, but haven't had a chance to watch the whole event. Here, I felt worse and worse and worse with each protocol I read. I was hopeful that the new judging system would reward the things (like skating skills, performance, GOE, etc.) that is wasn't recognizing in the old system (or that was at least being sidelined by jumping). However, I felt sick when I realized just how much this new scoring system would be used to manipulate scores. It's horrible, honestly. I think it might be about time for me to stop watching if this is the way it's going to go. Even worse is that people are justifying bad judging with "well, it's just Nationals." NO!!! NO, NO, NO!!! Bad judging should be PUNISHED. It takes away from the legitimacy of the sport and hurts both competitors and skaters. I just.........my figure skating soul hurts.
Loved Scott's points on choreography.."Doesn't look like it makes sense.." Totally agree, for years a friend and I would comment.."WHAT was that?"
That scratchy straight line entrance to the triple axel, sigh, didn't deserve anything more than +2 and yet the GOE was ballooned to +3 in SP and to +4 and even +5 to the FP. There's no way the GOE was comparable to that of Rika Kihira's. Dave, you've done in depth research on the +5 GOE and know it your heart the scores were really pumped.
I don't think I even touched on the ladies GOE...
@@TheSkatingLesson Maybe I haven't made myself clear enough. Just saying that you've in depth knowledge of the workings of GOE from analyzing the other comps, hope you'd touch on that in your video. I was hoping USFS would work her up the ranks slowly, and don't want her to become another flash in the pan because of the hype surrounding her. We all know how the puberty monster works.
@@bbitsme7971 The GOE for everyone was inflated. I typically touch on it when it causes the rankings to be incorrect. In this case, the judges were really willing to give the title to Bradie and Mariah. They just lost it. I don't want to be seen as attacking a tween. I will analyze her GOE when she competes against comparable skaters next season on the JGP.
@@TheSkatingLesson XD Love it. I mean, if we should be questioning the GOE of any field, it should be in the men's singles and pairs events.......
Now I want to watch old eps of In Living Color with Dave. 😂
Lol Jonathan just pulls out a magnifying glass 😂 How long were you holding onto to it until you could whip it out?? hahahaha
Can you please review Russian junior Nationals?
Секрет Успеха we will! I said as much at the end of the video!
TheSkatingLesson Awesome 👏 thank you so much 😊
Alysa Liu's head position in the jumps is very similar to Boyang Jin's. I hope she grows a lot taller. Right now it all looks immature and childlike. Her jumps are small. No Wow factor.
Johnathan! 9:40 OMG I had the same issue with Alysa Liu's 3A. Not that I didn't love it, but I felt I had seen the technique somewhere before. Then I went through the other 3As and yes! 10:22 It was 2015 Tuktamysheva. kzhead.info/sun/ddBmoLSnjWWppXA/bejne.html
No hate on Alyssa but, at least Tuktamysheva's posture going into that jump looks better.
Oh ok
I think Asada has a similar technique from the lower body with Liu. Her triple axel usually has a noticeable split-second stop, like a skid on the ice before getting up and rotating. That being said, the best Triple Axel from any lady for me, is still that of Midori Ito (minus her occasional wrap).
@Nathaniel Walker 100%
@Nathaniel Walker omg, someone that understands technique and differences in 3A's on a YT comment section! Are you an angel?
Great show! I too was shocked how much better Maduson and Evan looked. That injury may have been the perfect reset. I do wonder why Alexa and Chris didn't just withdraw. As was said, in such a dangerous disciple, shoukdn't a wrist injury in the male skater be a non-starter? Question: can pairs try a missed lift again or do they get no credit? How can Jonathan not know Men on Film? Oy, vey! BTW, watching the sun set behind Jonathan almost stole the show. Lol.
Also, it shouldn't be so hard to dress Bradie. She has a perfect skater's body. It takes effort to find such unflattering dresses, although I think her LP dress is a step in the right direction. Can you imagine how gorgeous and elegant she'd look in someyhing by Alissa Czisny's dressmaker? Make it happen, Dave, since you know Alissa! ;)
You can't try a missed lift again. Once you initiate a lift, that's what counts as the lift, which is why Tarah cried through the program instead of trying to do it again.
@@jcaslove1 Thanks! That's what I thought.
I too was confused by the Denney & Frazier scoring. They had solid lifts on a day of many lift issues, but the jump rotations and throws weren’t the best. They have better pair elements than Deanna and Nate but nothing really stands out. Actually I was confused by the scoring of many of the pairs. Maybe they really should have outside judges from other countries to keep the scores in line. The Knierims had strange skates. They could probably do a twist a thousand times in a row and have none of them look like that. Chris looked injured on that lasso lift. But maybe it was just a fluke and if so, I’d still be sending them to 4 Continents because there’s been absolutely nothing to support Denney & Frazier or Deanna & Nate being a stronger selection for an international event. A peaceful offseason should do the Knierims good though and allow them to regroup and figure out what type of coaching they best respond to. Maybe Robin Szolkowy will give them a jolt of confidence. In fairness to Meno & Sand, they had a high level pair just fall into their lap in the middle of the season and they are in a learning phase during this process as well. Alexa is a huge talent and it’s a shame when you see her confidence not looking fully there. I do think only having one spot seemed to weigh heavily on a couple pairs.
Yeah I agree with Dave on Hanyu vs Chen, it's almost not worth debating because what are the odds Hanyu and Chen will actually both skate 2 clean programs at worlds? I certainly wouldn't bet money on that happening lmao. None of the top guys can consistently throw down clean competitions with their top tech content included, and Hanyu and Chen both have a history of faltering at major championships. It's just gonna come down to whoever skates cleaner on the day. who knows, maybe they'll both falter and Shoma will take the title! He unpredictability of it makes it more exciting imo 🍿
I give this three snaps, in a ( Tom ) Z formation!
I think H/D's FD this year is a misjudgment, but their skating is still there or steadily progressing. So I guess the judges feel okay to reward them for now. R&J is a bad concept for them, but even if they had to do that, I wonder why they didn't go to the more classically powerful Prokofiev score. This movie version is really ultra-lite.
Qacc6 great point!
The fanyus were *insane* on Twitter after this event. Like, literally rescoring Nathan's performance with 7s for PCS and +0s for GOE. I get thinking his components might be high, and maybe the telegraphed quads/3A deserve to come down a bit in GOE, but c'mon - this program is *easily* competitive with a prime, ready Hanyu.
Calm down there, not easily lol but everyone is entitled to their opinion.
@asilem really how u know
@asilem I never saw "fanyus" (I really wish that stupid derogatory name would stop being used to describe an entire fanbase) mention Nathan not being a threat. Not sure where you found this? Lol...I think more rational, calm fans (which is the majority) simply disliked the hyperinflation. I'm looking forward to worlds too, it'll be interesting.
@asilem The true irony of your comment is that I didn't initially know (and still don't know) who were talking about when you said "It's been an ongoing thought anyway in some circles, that every win he's ever gotten is because of mistakes of someone else...and he has no true wins against anyone." Because that's literally been said of both Nathan and Yuzuru. Something that is true however is the fraudulent judging/ scoring that is being ignored in favour of a pitted facade of twitter rivalry and supposed "crazy/insane" fans.
I mean, I don't know the tone in which the rescoring was done. Was it malicious? Or just matter-of-factly? It kind of makes sense to do it just to figure out the international potential of these programs… You can never take the Nats scores seriously, that much is obvious.
The west coast is great from 4-18, then, they gotta cut the cord and come east.
39:20 Dave’s face= any person near me when I tell a story 😬
Stevie Darling
I wonder if tarah/Danny and Deanna/Nate switch partners Deanna /Danny both took from Cindy in Chicago .... the pairs look like it was world trial event vs nationals as I’m sure these teams Kno They’re only One spot.... so I’m sure the pressure was on not to medal but to win.. I wonder if thatnshifted the energy in the arena knowin that 4 continents will prob be the last event of the season hmmm makes ya wonder....
Very good point!
Scott Dyer looks like a majestic eagle.
❤️✨❤️ you guys... Secretly hoping the dad of Alysa does the Salome program alone in his bedroom. 😎 I hope Frank gives Alysa the Michelle Greensleeves exhibition to do. It’s a good program for her right now. I thought Michelle was so beautiful performing it pre-95-96 season before the make-up and hair change. Wouldn’t be surprised if Alysa did a nod to Michelle’s 98 Olympic Year for 2022: Rachmaninov or Lyra Angelica.
1:53:30 I love Zoe Jones
Ok the Zoe Jones one liner was funny but power to her a mother of 3 over 40 and still competing. The sad fact is they were the only senior pair at the British championships. Thank God for ice dance
Peter Davies the ISU needs to make structural changes to help more pairs succeed. It is a dying discipline and countries that have multiple teams are disadvantaged based on how ISU points are awarded. There are very average teams from countries with 1-2 pairs that are ranked much higher than they should be in the ISU rankings solely based on attending competitions by default due to being the only pair from their country.
Did Scott train w/ Frank Carroll?
AG C yes. For four years.
Vincent is so so so much better than Jason. I could fall asleep watching Jason. I thought the judges got it right. There was no way Jason skated better than Vincent.
This Russian ice age is the best thing I’ve ever seen
Tarasova told a 9 yo girl who couldn’t do triples she should do ice dance. Around 33 minutes