Money Shifting The 2023 Nissan Z - What Happens?!
I Money-Shifted From 3rd to 2nd Gear While Driving The 2023 Nissan Z.
Money Shift Complete Engine Teardown - • Catastrophic Engine Fa...
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Money shifting is a driving mistake that can catastrophically ruin a car's drivetrain. Essentially, money shifting is when you shift to a lower gear than what you were anticipating. This can cause the engine RPM to raise above redline, cause the driven wheels to lockup, and can cause clutch slip - all of which can result in big damage.
In this video, we'll discuss what is money shifting, what happens internally when a car money shifts, and what the consequences of a money shift are. While driving a 2023 Nissan Z on track, I experienced my first money shift. After over 15 years of driving manual transmissions, I've unfortunately dirtied my clean driving record. But we can learn from my mistake! So enjoy the video, and don't do what I did.
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Comments be like "this wouldn't have happened if you shifted properly." No kidding haha! A fellow misses *one* shift in 15 years of driving tons of different manual transmissions, and y'all tell me I'm clueless. 😂 Thinking it'll never happen to you is a bit arrogant; sometimes people make mistakes. Happy Friday everyone, enjoy your weekend!
This proves it... clueless. LOL
I've made mistakes in the past. I'll likely make mistakes in the future. I feel ya. 🤷♂
These people have a case of inflated ego - remember guys, don't try to constantly prove yourselves on every little thing. Instead of acting like smartasses on every occasion possible, try to engage in conversation in a more chill and polite way with your fellow people, even if online.
The commenters have also probably never raced around a track. Glad you got out of it scot free Jason.
Yep it is. If you try to do a money shift with that car you really have to force it in the gear. I think it's how they make make sure that car with smal engines like mine 0.8l NA don't get damaged by a money shift.
The average person after money shifting: cries Engineering Explained after money shifting: "So let's talk about what's going on here."
I was going to like this, but it’s at 69 likes. Nice!
i noticed i was the 70th like then unliked
just in case if there's a damage to the engine, this video will cover some of the cost to repair it 😂
@@haydenwadsworth7575 i was gonna like it but it has 244 likes. No more likes is needed
@@aceburgers8801 liked now because it’s not 69 anymore 😕
The classic Japanese street racer technique to avoid the money shift is to use a reverse grip on the shifter once you hit 3rd gear. You hook your shifting hand backwards by rotating it out (palm away from your body instead of facing it). That way if you accidentally shift to the wrong gear you'll go to 6th by accident instead of 2nd. Killing your lap time is no where near as bad as killing your wallet!
But the steering wheel is on the right for cars in japan, isn't it?
@@naksitanantalapochai4010 .... their gearboxes aren't backwards either. Wow they really just do it to be cool and it just works that way for us. I guess it would prevent losing a race from an accidental upshift but risk a money shift.
That's what I've always done. I never though it was anything that special, I've never missed a 3rd - 4th gear shift.
That's what I do and it really helps a lot. Also to not death grip the shifter because that will definitely make you mess up. Be loose and direct with it.
time to try this on my 5-speed honda! *accidentally misses 4th gear from 3rd and shifts into reverse*
Not only did you openly own up to a mistake, but you teach us what and why it happened. Amazing!
Man’s trying to make the money to pay Nissan back for a new engine and gearbox! 🤣
@@rikkiseddoaye 🤷🏾♂️, you got to what you got to do 😂
@@rikkiseddodid you watch the video? He did not damage his engine. The shown engine is from another guy.
Takes a lot humility for showing us your mistake. Thanks EE!
he's profiting of it, no humility... he's gaining and promoting herself
@@six8810 Let me see you do a video on your high dollar mistake!
He's putting up the video to get the money to pay for it.
@@six8810 Are you sure you know what you 're talking about here?
@@boywonderrr71 well that guy doesn’t have 3miilion subscribers and isn’t making 8-10k per video to cover his high bill
Been there done that. I was on track and money shifted my S2000 from the top of 3rd to second mid corner. Engine saw north of 11,500 RPM. I did a full inspection of the pistons and valve retainers afterwards and got lucky. The engine is still running strong to this day!
well, that engine is made for super high rpms and if there's one company from which i expect the engines to survive a money shift is Honda.
that's gotta be the only engine that could survive that lol
You hit a super secret second V-Tec at that RPM
Honda's secret bonus RPM dlc
I built a b18 ek9 that the owner ended up doing that to once. Smoked a little afterwards, think it bounced a valve and damaged a stem seal but otherwise ran perfect. Hondas are good engines.
A slipper clutch is also a viable solution. Its a purely mechanical system used on motorbikes - when torque is the correct direction it acts as a normal clutch. But when torque goes the other way the clutch automatically (and rapidly) opens. The idea is to prevent rear wheel slip on corner entry as you downshift. It's considerably more of a problem on motorbikes, and the solution came long before electronic control for everything. Technically we aren't so worried about rear wheel slip, but back torque is what is destroying the engine so its simply a different purpose for the same action. Probably a relatively cheap solution with little development required to implement
good idea. but I wonder if implementing a system like that could backfire if the clutch were to spontaneously fail (no longer transfer power to the transmission and wheels). but I don't know. engineers have overcome some serious technical limitations before!
@@nup5 It's a pretty simple system. Very, very similar to that in a limited slip differential. Essentially just a ramp and some springs. Otherwise its an entirely conventional clutch with entirely predictable results. They've been in use for over a decade on production sports bikes now, and obviously longer than that for race bikes. I've one on my own bike built 2007. So its not like an untested or experimental technique, its going to be the most tested and likely most reliable way to solve the issue in my opinion.
@@olivialambert4124 ahhh. yeah I'm out of my league here, thank you for informing me!
@@olivialambert4124 I've always wondered why slipper clutch doesn't exist on cars. Is it due to bigger clutches and flywheels?
@@gregorypaulgeorgem6037 Theres a number of reasons it could be, but ultimately I think its just a matter of timing. When slipper clutches started to become popular on motorbikes the race cars were already using semi automatic gearboxes, complex ECUs, and electronic assists. So naturally that moves to the sports cars and renders a slipper clutch largely useless. I think most car manufacturers care more for performance than money shifts anyway, and adding a few hundred dollars to the price to eliminate a problem customers aren't thinking about isn't on their mind. Then when they did care to prevent it you already had all the electronic assists so it was an easy matter of adding a little code. Maybe in a different universe they transfer to cars. It would likely take a different clutch material, but sports cars already use a more grippy material to make the clutch smaller anyway. Flywheel wouldn't affect it at all. I wouldn't think the size of the clutch would make much difference. The massively higher torque from a car motor might, but there's a lot of different clutch materials able to provide more grip to counteract that. They're just typically not used as much as they're more "on or off" and thus harder to smoothly pull away from the lights with. Personally I found no difference after a few days of use but it sounds like older people find it harder to learn.
I’ve driven manual-transmission vehicles for almost 15 years and it finally happened to me during a spirited driving session on a mountain road. Luckily I recognized what was happening and immediately depressed the clutch before things got crazy. It happens …
What was the outcome in terms of the the ending and transmission condition afterwards?
I just did this in my brand new GTI. I was having a little fun but was nowhere near the redline, so I doubt a shift from 3rd into 2nd would have damaged the car. But it still freaked me out and thankfully I didn’t let the clutch in, realized my mistake like you did
@@n16161 especially if youre turning a bit and being pushed in the seat ive gone from 8000rpm in 4th to 3rd in an old vtec prelude 😂 and it shot to 10,000 rpm for half a second but i didnt let the clutch out all the way thankfully but it did jump up way over redline. Surprisingly nothing broke and still runs good for an old 1993 engine
@@repingers9777 "10,000 RPM" 😂
@@CadillacDriver h22a literally built like an f1 engine wish it was fast as one 🤣
I money-shifted to 10500rpm in my old RX8. Absolutely nothing happened, owing to the absence of valves! Trackday continued...
Ha, amazing!
Haha dorito spin fast
I guess you can't really money-shift a rotary. Haha
@@kiefershanks4172 owning a rotary is a money shift in itself 🤔
@@knightsportsfc3s under rated comment 😂
>”what kind of damage can you expect “ Me : Emotional Damage!
Man card took a ding... but that's just the voices in my head
* Aggressively throws slipper at the floor *
Bro, you are the goat. In a world where no one wants to take responsibility for anything, not only did you do this but you made a whole video explaining what you did and all the consequences and repercussions of it! MAD RESPECT FOR YOU!! All these clowns here acting like they never done this before are just keyboard warriors. Drive manual cars long enough and this happens!! I only drive a lowly Si and ive been there done that! Good stuff man!!
well, considering my car literally doesn't allow me to shift into first gear from any other gear unless im below 10 kph, i'd say i've never done it, and with higher gears it's pretty easy to feel the direction the stick is going in so I don't somehow accidentally shift into 2nd from 3rd.
@@dubl33_27 Well, I've only driven automatics and I've never money shifted 😎
I did a similar thing in my Scion tC. Went from 3rd to 2nd at 7000rpm. I saw the tachometer go well past 9k. Seven out of 16 rocker arms flew out of position (I think this saved my bottom end). However a few of the rocker arms got caught between the cams and valves and ended up bending 3 valves. No valve to piston contact however. Slapped on a used head and she’s good as new now
Ayyy
Same thing in a RSX type -S in 2005 did like 11k rpm's. New valves and intake cam.
You could analyze the audio frequencies to figure out the RPM reached by the engine. Should be relatively easy to eye-ball it looking at the spectrogram.
Admittedly, I love this idea! Not planning on following thru though haha.
@@EngineeringExplained c'mon buy a 400$ scrapper then scrap it when you're done 😂
By ear my guess is 10k (RIP engine)
@@AruEsse except it's a 6 cyl, not a 4 cyl, so the sound would naturally be higher pitched for a lower RPM. I worked it out above to about 8400 RPM.
I checked it an it went briefly to 7900 rpm (using the third harmonic at 395Hz)
"Clutch by wire" might be the worst phrase I've ever heard.
What's potentially coming is disturbing! kzhead.info/sun/jL6LY6qFaXeEgIU/bejne.html
"Wire by wire" - all old-school wires are eliminated and everything is a computer
They could integrate it into the voice assistant. Hey Siri, let out the clutch!
Thanks Jason! Been watching your vids for almost 10 years now. Appreciate all the educational info you share with us. Keep it up! 👏🏻
This is by far one of the most informative and overall well put together channels, kudos.
To all the commenters about "proper shifting." - s*it happens. We all probably stalled a manual transmission, we all have made some mistakes. He could've just disguised this video as another educational one, but he included his mistake and recovery, so be glad for his humility and cut him some slack.
No i've never stalled an engine... never driven manual :)
Yup. If you've been driving a manual transmission for any length of time, you've done this.
@@ThexXxXxOLOxXxXx a friend of mine stalled an automatic car once 😳
Haters gonna hate.
@@ThexXxXxOLOxXxXx Lmao I managed to stall an automatic a week ago
Miss shift occurs because we are human. With that being said, you hit the nail on the head about getting lucky. Thank you for admitting to an error and teaching people about said error and how to car manufacturers try to avoid it from happening.
Manufacturers can implement fixes but one can also adjust technique. Palm faces left for 1-2, straight down for 3-4, palm facing right for 5-6. I also don't recommend gripping the shifter hard for 2-3 -- just straight ahead with bottom of palm and fingers straight back to avoid transferring lateral forces while turning. Seems to be effective for me even when hooning around in the twisties.
Man you really love your craft it is impressive id mutter under my breathe and hope no one saw but you take the opportunity to share and teach on something so many would love to know more about. Love the video man you can probably outshine 99% of us driving knowing the mechanics and honestly most engineers can visualize the problems but can’t explain them which makes you upper tier for sure.
Hey EE. Thanks for taking time to explain things like these. I have not driven a manual car for close to 10 years but have recently booked for a manual sports car which is expected to arrive next year. Been watching all sorts of videos since then to try and understand cars better and to refresh my memory on MTs, so thank you!
Exciting! My folks just got a manual car for the first time in about a decade, and are loving it! I also taught my girlfriend to drive stick this summer, and now she owns a stick car! It's really the way to go!
Recently started driving a manual car... Never really drove one daily and it's very nice, even in traffic😂... I learned how to drive with a manual transmission car but all my cars were automatic.
@@jasonandrews7355 I feel like it's got nothing to do with "which one is better" but more of switching things up. I've drove a manual all my life and I'm a die hard manual fan, but I recently drove an auto for the first time and I LOVED it, now I understand why people like autos. I just feel like there's a use for both.
Yes, the rev limiter works for only upshifting and/or full throttle conditions while in lower gears. I'm fairly sure that shifting to a lower gear by accident has happened to almost everyone who has been driving manual transmission cars for many years as I have.
I can safely say this only happened to me once on my entire lifetime, but I wasn't racing so no damage occurred
I don't recall it ever happening to me, and I have many years in cars (roughly 60% manual, by milage) motorcycles (100% pedal shift, 0% auto) and large goods vehicles (100% manual, with splitters and range changers thrown in to make things more interesting). I have reached over a million miles on each of those, as I spent a large portion of my working life driving or riding for a living. I've never heard the term in the UK, but as we sit on the right and shift with our left hand, the tendency is to pull towards us so that may make it much rarer, along with the fact that automatic transmissions have historically been much less common here, so most drivers over about 40 never consider anything else and were taught manual shifting from the start.
It’s almost happened while downshifting but I’ve always caught it before I let the clutch out
@@phillee2814 I would think that shifting while driving work vehicles would not entail speed-shifting, which is typically when dangerous engine rev conditions would occur. (Unless your work vehicle is a race car)😏
@@davepaturno4290 Maintaining momentum oh hills is critical in goods vehicles, so fast shifting skills are a prerequisite. Getting it wrong can stall you out completely, and make you resort to a crawler gear which will make you a rolling roadblock and drink fuel like a thrsty camel. But I would not have done as much work driving and riding if I didn't enjoy it, so although that accounted for the vast majority of my milage, it did not exclude reacreational riding and driving - I only really mentioned it as explanation for the high milage I've done. So although none of my work vehicles were race cars/bikes/trucks, they were certainly not the only vehicles I drove/rode. Never seriously competitive, but had some fun, then moved sideways into race marshalling.
I absolutely appreciate your work, very few people out there are willing to explain it step-by-step, I think your channel is great, I have learned a substantial amount from you, Thank you
Thanks for watching Michael!
No you haven't Michael lol. You've learned stuff that requires experience and either you or this ding dong have any of that
@@ClaytonYatescarenthusiast Thank you for the complement, you are probably right, my 33 years of wrenching mean nothing, God Bless
@@ClaytonYatescarenthusiast cope.
Consistently one the best KZhead channels. Very detailed but well-explained concepts.
Very excellent awareness on your part for similarly saving it, most of the time you don't get happy endings like this. I''ve been in care with a friend who went on to do greater things regarding driving who i once witnessed similarly save and it always impressed me, that somehow unlike the many dozens of other such cases, the reaction was just fast enough to avoid the worse situation.
These videos with formulas are your best content. Facts - conjecture = Good content 👍
Grabbing the stick properly you can avoid ever money shifting - its a side effect of putting too much of your arm muscles into shifting, not allowing the stick to naturally centre itself
Yup, open/loose palm, not death grip
@@lukerinderknecht2982 rotating your wrist inward also helps.
Bingo
cars that have an auto centering type shifter helps prevent money shifting too, because you can feel where its going. I can see money shifting happening more often on vague feeling shifters
It's correct. Forcing the gears is better because in hard conditions like racing, it's more difficult for the transmission to stick the shifts
I thought I knew what this was but after watching I know so much more. Thanks EE!
I love you. Most KZheadrs would try to pretend this never happened. You make a video detailing precisely how you damaged someone else's car, technically. Just wonderful
I once tried to downshift to pass and went from 5th to 2nd (instead of 4th). When releasing the clutch felt like standing on the brake I pushed it back in. Took less than half a second, no damage done but I was really mad at myself.
I did this myself when test driving my weekend car, over two years ago and that car has given me nothing but smiles since!
If you drive a car with a manual transmission long enough, it will eventually happen to you. We're human and prone to making mistakes from time to time. The fact that you reacted properly and disengaged the clutch shows that you are in-tune with the car enough to handle it, so I wouldn't sweat it.
I did exactly the same a decade ago and i'm still scared to pass a car on a one lane road
Haha I just wrote something similar.
Did exactly this in my recently aquired NB Miata. It's my first manual car, and I was still learning and fooling around with downshifting. I'm more careful with shifting now. lol
Caught myself nearly shifting from 5th to 2nd on the highway. I was going to 4th. These things happen sometimes, luckily I'm so petrified of moneyshifting my daily I took a second look before even moving my left leg and went "OHHHH boy".
5th to 2nd would have been a disaster lol!
@@fruitygranulizer540 holy smokes you went on a journey to get from 5th to 2nd! I had an old Mazda Protege from 1996 that had absolutely trashed bushings - thing was vaguer than the essay prompts you get in college. You were guessing which gear was which, definitely managed to touch second a few times coming from 5th😂
If your 2nd goes to 60mph and you're doing 60 in 5th then it's not so bad
I did kind of the reverse, overtaking a truck on a highway, was going back up to 5th again but hit the 3rd instead. That sudden braking and revving was a quick scare that I thankfully instinctively hit the clutch again to do it properly this time. No damage done as the reaction was quick enough, but lesson learned no doubt.
@@AdderoYuu I would say just pushed too much to the left, given 5th is on the far right. A habit to never do this (...with a properly tight shifter and no weird 7 gears or such) would be to just push back and let it drop to the middle
Thanks for explaining this. Only did this a few times while driving my '99 TDI Jetta. Of course, I immediately pushed in the clutch and coasted while I selected the correct gear. The stock transmission on that lasted 180,000 miles.
Re: Clutch by wire - I have recently read an article from an ex-employee of a car manufacturing supplier (think something like ZF) regarding clutch-by-wire. The TLDR of it was that it is indeed a better solution for multiple reasons (one of them being fuel economy as well), however it was put on ice because the benefits didn’t outweigh the costs (which weren’t too hight to begin with, but still it made the car slightly more expensive). If you would think this topic is interesting, I might try to get you in touch with the author of that article (I don’t know him, but he’s a fellow Czech, so maybe I’d be able to get hold of him).
actually, Hyundai already uses this type of clutch-by-wire in their iMT manual transmission cars
Dual clutch transmissions such as in the GT500 basically use this, but do away with the clutch pedal completely.
@@dundonrl That's no longer a manual
@@MadScientist267 There's no torque converter, no planetary gearing, no clutch packs. It still has synchros, a direct drive train through the transmission with synchronizers and a clutch. Just is its a computer controlled manual.
@@matthewone7907 Mazda aswell iirc on their Mazda 2 mild hybrids. Allows the clutch to disengage automatically in order to freewheel when using cruise control, prompting the ECU to shut the engine down and restarting it with the integrated starter generator assist motor when the speed dips below the set speed.
Same happened to me during the test drive of a Skoda Octavia TDI, in 2004. The engine went up to 5500 approx and the emissions light was flashing like a Christmas Tree. Apparently the engine didn’t suffer permanent damage, despite these modern diesel cars are long stroke so the piston speed was really high… for an oil burner. Thank you for the quantitative explanation, really very nice.
Takes a brave man to let others learn from his mistakes! Love the video.
Good breakdown as always. I’ve done the same thing although I was at a lower speed. After doing it, I began to place my hand with my palm on the inside of the shifter nob to ensure I didn’t go from third to second and it has worked well. I typically do that only for the 3-4 and 5-6 shifts. My hand is in an opposing grip for all other shifts.
My wrx shifter is kinda weird, there's no real "H" - you can push the shifter left and right while it's already in a gear. So I found the safest way to go to 5th is to first push it all the way to the right, while it's in 4th still, then up.
Another type of money shift without fully shifting: At high speed downshift to 1st and not letting the clutch out. So far no harm done. But the primary shaft in the gearbox and the clutch disk will spin at crazy rpms like 5 times the redline.. 30k rpms or something like that. Clutch disk explodes and may rip the transmission housing. Case study: agricultural tractor goes uphill in 1st gear. Max speed in 1st gear is about 5km/h. The hill gets steeper and steeper until wheels slip on the ground. The operator presses the clutch and let it roll backwards (still in 1st gear, but clutch disengaged). The backward roll from the hill ended in 30-40km/h. The tractor split up at the bottom of the hill as the clutch disk (quite heavy in tractors) exploded and ripped apart the bell housing. Tractors many times don't have a chasis.. so the engine-transmission-rear axle is one rigid body bolted. Bolt the front axle to the front of the engine and bolt the cab on the engine-transmision-rear axle.. so if the engine and transimssion is split, the whole tractor splits in two! It is to be noted that the engine-transmission housings coupling is under a lot of stress from the weight of the tractor, unlike a truck/car where this coupling only support the gearbox weight an not the whole rear axle and all the weight of the vehicle.
Also when you are revving out the motor, giving it all the beans, the engine tends to torque over more than normal (especially if the motor mounts are a bit worn or old). This causes the shift linkage to go out of alignment slightly, making it easier to get the lever into the wrong gate. I did this once at the track (willow springs), and could tell something didn't feel quite right when grabbing forth gear coming into turn 7. Luckily, I was able to clutch super fast and keep the engine from zinging itself to the moon. Some cars were known to be easier to money shift, like the E36 M3, and earlier subaru STI.
This! Happened to me in a 318ti at Mid-America Motorplex (now called Raceway Park of the Midlands). I was in 3rd going to 4th and hit 2nd. I did the same as you, in fact I didn't even get the clutch all the way out before slamming the pedal back to the floor to prevent damage. It's not only the torque of the engine moves it on the motor mounts, but the g-forces in the corner also contribute to pulling everything to one side. In that corner in that car, a straight pull from 3rd would always go very smoothly right into 2nd. To make the 318ti shift in that corner at mid-america, I had to shift into "6th." Well, it would feel like I was shifting into 6th gear, but I was actually shifting into 4th under load and with some g-forces in the corner. The Scion FR-S I just sold had stiffer engine and transmission mounts to help prevent some of these issues and make it easier to shift in the corner under load.
@@mnntropy5615 Yep happened to me twice in my 2006 Miata. The engine mounts get a little soft and the engine and gearbox are in a slightly different spot than usual while cornering. The first time, I was upshifting from 2nd to 3rd and caught 1st, the wheels locked and I spun. I pushed the clutch back in as soon as it started spinning, so the RPM didn't exceed 7000. The second time was due to not filling enough transmission fluid. (Turns out my 5-speed likes 2.5 qts, not the recommended 2.2 qts.) I was downshifting from 4th to 3rd and caught 1st. It didn't quite go into gear, so I had slowed to a normal 1st gear speed by the time it popped in. I now have solid EDPM engine mounts.
Don't forget the Honda
Even before STI.... my 1990 Legacy RS was NOTORIOUS for being easy to money shift... That said they're also NOTORIOUS for having sloppier boxes than a $10 hooker
Yep, learned it on 6th gen camaros with drag racing. On launch, it binds and makes it very difficult to get into 2nd sometimes. Poly motor and trans mounts are a big help with it
In motorcycles you can have anti hopping clutch with partialy slides when you drop too many gears down, preventing your engine from damage.
Slipper clutch?
i wonder if slipper clutch (or similar mechanism) could exist in cars where single plate clutch is the norm
on a bike you need slipper clutch to prevent crash in corners. It is almost impossible to damage the engine by downshifting on a bike. Because of strong weight shift to front, rear wheel will slide every time. You can make slipper clutch on a car, but it is quite complex and expensive thing. Much simpler just electronically lock such possibility.
yea, came to comment that a money shift is quite spicy on a motorcycle without a slipper clutch!
Oooh, I like that!
I learned a lot from this video! Keep up the great content!
Knaaawledge. Never driven a manual, hope to get one soon. Appreciate your videos.
One important observatuon is that the synchros make it harder to get in the wrong gear (because they have to spin up a lot). Whether it's enough to stop you depends on the transmission and how hard you're shifting. In most cars I've driven, downshifting to 1 at high rpm would take a lot of force or time.
In my experience I’ve only found that true for first gear. One can definitely money shift into second or third with little additional resistance. Definitely not from experience. Only suckers money shift. That’s why I drive a car with a cvt. Try money shifting that.
@@danielwatson5595 How is replacing your belt?🤣
@@danielwatson5595 CVTs are absolute garbage. Have fun with that. Edit: Also, you can _totally_ money shift a CVT.
@@uhoh_bent2445 all transmissions will fail eventually even manual transmissions LOL CVTs are actually quite efficient they just aren’t as cool from a racing perspective
@@danielwatson5595 lol. Cvt is known for the money noshift.
I actually thought it was called money shifting because it tears up your gearbox, which makes it sound like there's coins in your trans 🤣
Thought it was money shifting cause it tears up your account balance, shifting your money into a _brand new_ used transmission!
It's probably called that because you're likely to see your money disappear when the money light comes on
xD I love this
Oh man, glad you had good reflexes! I did something similar on my 2016 Golf R and also managed to avoid catastrophe. I did view to logged over-rev conditioning and took a 6500rpm redline engine to 7600rpm. Thankfully it shrugged it off without an issue. I sent two consecutive oil samples without anything out of spec.
This channel is the best. Great video thank you
I almost money shifted my new WRX a couple years ago on the highway (going 6th to 5th at 80mph, hit 3rd instead). Caught the issue real quick when the car engine braked really hard. Probably not technically a money shift since 3rd will go up to around 80mph redline but still seemed really harsh on the engine and drivetrain. It also helped that I had already blipped the throttle for the downshift.
Lol shifting into right before redline or at redline is not money shifting. It’s not efficient, as you’ll use time to immediately upshift, but you were within the mechanical limitations of engine and drivetrain. Not a money shift.
@@danielwatson5595 Yeah note I said "almost". Obviously I would need to have been going more like 90-100mph to make it destructive.
Don't worry, it will randomly throw a rod whilst doing 55 in 6th on the way back from the wendys. It's a Subaru after all.
@@thegibbonisreal lol no doubt
@@pogtuber5146 isn’t “almost” money shifting just normal high rpm downshifting? If peak power is at or near redline are you “almost” money shifting every time you shift with peak performance in mind? I wouldn’t think so.
I money-shifted my '95 Civic a few years back on I-5 going almost 70 MPH. THANKFULLY, I disengaged the clutch before fully releasing it. I'm sure it gave the rotating assembly a workout!!
That's an interference engine. I bet a valve scraped some carbon off a piston. lol.
What type of engine is in the 2020 civic?
I don’t know a whole lot about cars, but I was able to easily understand this concept, thank you🙏
i love you dude! You did 1 mistake that lasted 4 seconds and made it a 10 minute video
0:08 holy mother of soft bushings! They must be made of jelly! Would definitely contribute to a money shift right there lmao
that’s the old z
Was going to say the same thing. Seems like after all these years, they still aren’t going to fix the manual shifter vibration. This actually looks worse than the older gens, that shifter’s shaking violently
If it’s shaking a lot it’s because of stiff bushing which improve shifter precision but do allow more vibration to pass thru. Soft shifter bushings would reduce movement and vibration but cause a sloppier feeling shifter.
Amazing you are confident enough to admit a mistake and turn it into a learning lesson. Great video and enjoyed the deep dive of the topic!
It's honestly nice to see someone explain this correctly and easy to understand for those who have no mechanical experience. As well as those like me who do have mechanical experience but none of the deep technical data knowledge. And knowledge is power. So here I am getting better at my craft. 🖖
Glad you're OK 👍, you're one of the very few that can not only explain what you experience/know, but can also help articulate it with great drawings!
Agreed I try to understand how all this works but a lot of it is tough for me to grasp.
When I took my car on a race track I discovered that you can shift down gears too early before a corner. It's actually quite tricky to time it, but watching that needle go above redline was terrifying so I quickly learnt my lesson.
After I too experienced the dreaded "money shift" I did some research and there's a very simple shifting technique that helps to greatly reduce the odd's of it occurring. You want to backhand the 3-4 shift the same way you would a 5-6 shift as this mostly prevents any chance of misalignment, and even if there is some you're more likely to end up in 6th gear instead of 2nd like when you're pulling it towards you. This logic can be applied to other shifts allowing you to determine the "safest" way to grasp the shifter for each other gear selection(up or down)
Wait backhand? I always learned you were supposed to use your palm.
@@Trinexx42 Yeah, me too. Btw, the natural plane of a manual is 3-N-4. For selecting 1 or 2 you have to pull the stick out of this plane, for selecting 5 or 6 you have to push the stick out of this plane.
Well, i did the same thing you explained in a friends clio rs and low and behold, 2-3-2 at the limiter in third, rip clutch and tranny and a solid hole in my pocket, the engine is still mad af though, and also he is on his 3rd gearbox as we speak, so i guess it was gonna happen, it was its destiny
He means you face your palms towards the passenger, on the 3 to 4 shift. On 1 to 2 shift, your palms is facing you. 2 to 3, still palms facing you. 3 to 4 turn hand upside down. 4 to 5 palm face u again. 5 to 6 turn hand upside down like 3 to 4. 6 to reverse use right leg.
@@Trinexx42 ...if you can find a copy of GRANDPRIX, watch how the driver holds his hand on the shift lever when shifting up or down. That's what he means
Very entertaining! Thank you Jason. Glad the car was ok. 😁
Did one of these in my 03 Cobra, did exactly what you did, at redline went from 3rd to 2nd. The tach went way beyond the redline and I've never heard the supercharger scream that loud! Didn't hurt anything and I shifted into 4th and continued to finish accelerating!
For me, auto rev matching has helped avoid a couple of money shifts... When you start to put in into the wrong gear, the engine will redline because it's trying to match the speed of the trans input shaft. If your paying attention and notice the high rev, you know not to let off the clutch because it'll break something.
I was always taught by Dad to roll my hand on the side of the shift you don't want, to bias the shift towards your intended need. So in my RHD cars, left hand is shifting, first to second would be with the palm facing away from me towards the pax side of the car keeping the shift biased correctly. Second to third roll over so palm faces me and as you push past the gate the stick moves naturally toward my side and forward. That way the worst you can do is just go straight to 5th and less likely back to first. Nothing is perfect but as a gear changing habit it helps to mitigate the chances of the 'money shift'.
Interesting that you mention this tip. I adapted my shifting to do the same thing in my 2011 Subaru STI. Short shifter and gates are close together, easy to miss shift. Fortunately for me, the easiest mis shift is running through 5th and then missing 6th and going back to 4th when pulling the shift back. The good news is the car is already going pretty fast by 5,000 RPM in 5th so I’m usually going for 6th before that point….not so bad accidentally going into 4th. After one or two such instances I found it more predictable to roll my palm to left side of shifter (LH drive car) when pulling back from 5th into 6th. Works like a charm every time.
I was taught something similar for a regular 5-speed H pattern gearbox, you envolve the shifter with your hand like a "spoon" with the palm on the opposite side of the knob and pull it TOWARDS YOU first then down for second gear, grab the shifter without your thumb finger from the front/top side and pull down for fourth (no palm), third gear goes with your palm on the back of the shifter knob and fifth gear is palm and thumb pushing towards the passenger side
It is so impressive to watch your content
Thanks for showing your mistake and educating us :)
Interesting video, something you alluded to, but didn't specifically mention is the possibility of breaking the con-rod due to the extreme forces! About 15 yrs ago I mis-shifted from 5th down to 2nd (instead of 4th!) at about 75 mph in my '97 BMW 323i, I saw (and heard) my engine scream right off the RPM scale (7k) to about 7300 RPM!! It's redline was 6300 RPM! I wasn't quick enough on the clutch :(, after I dipped it I listened, and all seemed good amazingly! But a few months later, gently cruising at 75 mph again (in 5th!), their was a (surprisingly faint) 'boom' and a sound like gravel being thrown under the car, followed by the back end weaving slightly, smoke pouring out the back like the red arrows!, the dash lighting up like an xmas tree and a knocking noise. I pulled over and I could see a big hole in the side of the block :(, a rod had let go. Later when I removed the engine I could see a rod had snapped in 1/2, and the remaining bit had flailed around and cut through the block from about 1" below the head and through most of the sump! That was an expensive mistake :'( I just hope you didn't rev your(?) Nissan too high!
Assimilator1, I'm pretty sure it was a press car so he won't have that anxiety wondering when his engine will suddenly fail catastrophically. But you make a good point that just because everything seems fine after a money shift, there might be hidden damage that could show up later when you least expect it.
I remember back when the 7th gen Celica GTS came out, there were numerous instances on the forums of money shifting the car from 3rd to 2nd. It was likely due to the shift gates on that car being quite narrow (I also felt they were a bit narrow than other 6 speeds) and one had to he more mindful while shifting.
Never drove one of those (they're cool though), but ouch. If I remember correctly, the first few years that engine had a problem with the variable-lift system at really high RPM, they eventually lowered the redline or something... So money shift sounds like RIP 2ZZ-GE
I almost did it some months ago, when I was taking off to take a long, fast left turn to merge into a lane. The car rolled slightly to the right in the left turn so _I slightly leaned to the left to compensate. This made my H shift pattern muscle memory to offset a bit to the left compared where the shifter's pattern actually is_ and then when shifting 3rd to 4th, it got back to 2nd. Luckily, having approached the end of the turn for the merge, I shifted earlier and the very moment I started to let the clucth go, I instantly felt the massive jerk building up so I instinctively kicked the clutch back in so I got away with a peak rev of 5000 according to the tach. OMG it was a pucker factor 9 moment.
Thank you sir for your videos!
The 1-2-1 money shift seems to be the worst well I’ve seen the videos of the Honda’s on the drag strip exploding after that so it seems the worst for the Honda’s
I've also seen Hondas survive money shifts. Drag strip Hondas are probably revving really high to begin with, money shifting 1-2-1 at 8000+ rpm to begin with is asking for trouble lol
Honestly I feel like you'd have to bash the living crap out of your shifter for your trans to accept first instead of third. At least, with my tr6060 I feel like that would require a lot of force.
@@androiduberalles I have an older Honda and it doesn't let me shift from 3rd to 2nd over 40 mph and that wouldn't even be over revving it. Would be around 5k rpm
Most cars physically lock out first gear if you're already moving. You basically have to force it in to get it to shift back into first. The cars I've driven all usually played nice if the speed was low enough (
@@LevitiCUZ Honda transmission locks downshifting in speed unless you use double clutch or rev match before shifts.
I've never made a true money shift where something breaks, but I've certainly mis-shifted on occasion. Mostly, hitting 3rd when I wanted 5th or 4th when I wanted 6th. That's because of the spring that wants to return the shifter to neutral between 3rd & 4th; if I don't apply enough force to move the shifter to the right it ends up staying in the middle. Honestly, I don't think trying to electronically block the wrong gear in a manual is a good idea. First of all, part of the point of a manual is that you have to actually think about driving; if you want a computer to keep you out of trouble, buy an automatic. Secondly, it would certainly increase the cost of a manual car. And third, it would invariably fail at some point and prevent you from being able to shift at all. I see zero chance the manufacturers will be putting any money into manual transmission designs, seeing as they reduce the number of cars still available with them almost every year. Plus, it's all moot as the industry switches to all electric vehicles, with no shifting of any kind.
my idea is using a stepper motor and PWM and logic for the neutral springs aka the extra set so if it's going to over rev it adds weight/feel so it won't 💯 stop 🛑 you but it will make it vary clumsy to forcefully $$-shift ( same for drag-mode aka gated shifting so it's really hard to miss as 6-speeds are known to be harder to launch 👌 mcfarland/lero has it down pat 👍 ) the rest of the time is making butter smooth and or allows my to have a mode for the wife for a automated manual transmission same with the clutch 😉 and or flappy paddle's at the track if i get tired/lazybones working on doing that to a TR6060/TR6070 but making my c7 7-speed-trans shift is lower on my priority's in my 60's BBM/hemi charger
Did this exact shift in my 2009 370z. Was a “DOH!” Moment for sure. Never any problems. Solid car.
Your reaction to to save it was on point. I'm teaching my 7yo shifting in my 95 cummins I explained well tried to explain what a money shift was he wanted me to show him... but anyway you saved it then took it a step further and explained it with math. I could not get the numbers but I can actual damage
I could have sworn there was some sort of lockout for 1st. Gear on our golf and up when going too fast. At less going straight into 1st. After cruising in 5th. When coming to a stop was almost impossible. Going into 2nd. In-between made everything much easier.
Can confirm, my Up! has a first gear lockout.
Some cars probably have a 1st gear lock out, however usually it's simply hard to shift into first at speed because the gear ratio is so short. The jump in ratio is much bigger than between other gears on road cars. That means a lot of force on the shifter is required to get the synchros to match speed, and the gear to actually engage.
I have a golf r, it doesn't let me go into first above like 20 mph
There's another tech that would help: slipper/assist clutches. Somewhat common on motorcycles for totally different reasons, but it would slip the clutch more in a situation like this.
Yeah I wonder why cars don't have them. I'm guessing it's because bikes are smaller and don't typically need to last as long as cars.
@@pleasedontwatchthese9593 their clutches last longer bruh😂. their wet clutches so it helps with wear a ton!
God bless I love your videos. Always learning awesome stuff. I’ve always wonder what exactly happened with a money shift. It’s a lot worse than I thought lol
Really excellent video . Fascinating stuff.
Just like a Reverse block gate, you could have a gear block gate by Rpm, and no down shifts can be made.
Yep, mentioned at the end. :)
But just thinking, you could have it be able to have it retroactive... like you can change gated transmissions top plate with a few screws to change the feel, this just adds a wire or two and a thing attached to it.
Is it possible that synchronizers could be setup to prevent you from choosing the wrong gear? A few times I attempted the money shift, the synchroniser couldn't keep up and the trans. just whined and wouldn't allow me to engage the gear. I wasn't on a track and realized immediately what was happening and selected the proper gear.
A system that would kick the shifter into neutral if the speec exceeds the expected speed a gear can handle would be neat.
the issue with the z is the auto rev match feature brings the engine up to the correct speed as soon as you go near the gate, it's not once the car is actually in gear. Did this in my 370 once before and its the same system
@@kernoleary1394 I very much doubt any auto rev system would rev the engine over the redline.
@@molozful it indeed does, like I mentioned happened to me with this exact rev matching system
A lot of good explanations of engine breaking.
Sorry for the scare, but thankful for the info/video it spawned.
The slipper clutch, developed by Honda, has been in use for a decade or two, and limits the amount of "bite" in the clutch in just the direction of rear wheel driving engine. It uses a multi-plate wet clutch in which not all the plates drive in both directions, the others being only able to drive forwards - so excessive engine braking causes clutch slip. That is a mechanical system which has proven to be highly effective and reliable. Thus, it is entirely mechanical. I don't beliieve manual transmissions will go away before internal combustion engines do - i.e. electric vehicles will be universal first, and they rarely need to have more than one gear.
With GM's skipshift, you could bypass it by simply increasing the engine rpms before shifting. There was also a bypass device available in the aftermarket.
Why would you buy a manual transmission car that doesn't let you pick what gear you want? It's like buying a lawnmower but it only cuts wet grass.
@@bubbleman2002 GM did that so that the owners wouldn't be subject to the gas guzzler tax. Many Corvette owners bought an inexpensive bypass but I didn't feel like I needed it because when I wanted to aggressively accelerate, the skipshift was inactivated, anyway.
gear lockout is a godsend. helped me A LOT in my early days of autocross
Judging from the title I was thinking “oh noo is this the start of Engineering Explained turning into the TechRax of car KZhead channels”
Oh no
3 -> 4 shift the top of your hand should be on the left-hand side of the shift knob, with your fingers doing all the gripping on the front face of the shiftknob. In this position your arm can only pull the shifter straight back, the only other gear you could possibly grab would be 6th and that would be caused by severely contorting your arm and applying alot of off-axis motion.
Bingo.
Bruh you can hold the knob however you want 🤣. No need to get that techinical about it. It is very easy to shift a vehicle properly. Hes clearly just not great at it🤣. I've never money shifted in my life, I dont understand how someone could. It is like hitting the brake instead of the clutch.
@@siguy3546 things change when you're on the track and need to focus on a lot of other things, and maybe he wasn't used to the Z's manual trans
Dang :( happens to the best of us! Thanks for the explaining. Amazing video as always ! 🎉
I saw this caption under a screen capture on MSN /Jalopnik which cracked me up. "Graying man in red hoodie pontificates in front of a whiteboard." From one graying pontificator to another great video!
The real question is how damage did you to that z with your demonstration of that beautiful money shift? 🤫
watch video
@@Steamrick I did but it was never disclosed if any severe damage was done to the z. Clips of engine damage is from humble mechanics money shift incident a year or so ago. First comment was just a joke
@@jghost910 He outright says that he got away with it
oh no no no no
Love your videos
Amazing info. Thank you
I pulled my diesel dually down to first one time, I swear chunks of pavement were flying out amongst the tire smoke.
Screw tube again no notification. I have 91 Thunderbird SC, have had 9 of these cars but one in particular is very easy to do this, five speed M5R2...4th to 3rd...🤨...
I once did a money shift on my 04 SE-R Spec V. I went from 4th back up to 3rd. Ever since then, I hear a strange noise coming from the gearbox. Sounds like it's in the differential area. The noise only shows up when I'm traveling at a constant speed. Great video btw!
I did a money hold back in the day. Entered a freeway at 60mph in a 2nd gen RX-7. I realized I was blocked out by several semi’s traveling nose to tail. I just kept the pedal down and honed in on the lead truck. I drove well pasted the shift buzzer, when I shifted to third I looked down to see the rpm’s DROP to redline! Gotta love rotaries!
everyone dogging him for missing one shift in 15 years, wants to act like it'll never happen to them. A saying in motorsports is also true for the public roads. "There are only two types of drivers. Those that _have_ crashed, and those that _will_ crash." Same thing applies to mis-shifting a manual transmission.
This is hurting me. That shift really hurts my eyes, my brains, my heart and my soul. :'( Good thing you did not spin out.
Thanks for the video
Great video and I appreciate the explanations and the math. Question, what did Nissan say after seeing this video? Did they appreciate the humility and honesty? I hope so and that you get invited back to the track.
Great information thanks
Honestly a great video
My "lesson learned" was 3rd - 1st in my MR2 Turbo under heavy braking and I got super lucky. Skinny tires meant they locked for an instant when I let the clutch out with all the weight shifting forward giving me an instant to re-clutch and I was saved from any momentary rpm 'zing' that did happen by virtue of the 3S-GTE being non-interference with a strong bottom end.
This was a great video 👍. I can’t say I’ve done that . The only manuals I’ve driven were poorly maintained 35 year old trucks with synchros on vacation. Let’s just say your not accidentally getting it into a gear …especially second. You basically have to rev match to engage at all.