Type 93 Long Lance Torpedo - Long Range Hole Poking Device
Today we look at the famous IJN Type 93 torpedo.
Sources:
US Technical Mission to Japan - www.fischer-tropsch.org/primar...
www.amazon.co.uk/Naval-Firepower-Battleship-Dreadnought-Friedman/dp/B01B98BO6K
www.amazon.co.uk/VIOLET-LIGHTNING-Blueprint-Japanese-1941-1942/dp/1646286588
www.amazon.co.uk/Torpedo-Complete-History-Worlds-Revolutionary/dp/1848322151
www.amazon.co.uk/Iron-Men-Tin-Fish-Torpedo/dp/1591146232
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Pinned post for Q&A :)
Drach, another masterpiece, many thanks !!
(gonna post again, sry) Years ago, the History Channel gave us the program "Dogfights" and "Battle 360". For the naval episodes of the first and the entire program of the later, how accurate are they?
Can you do an episode on Vasa?
Not really a serious question, but do you know of any stories of ghost ships or haunted naval vessels that'd make for a good All Hallow's Eve special?
Given the centrality of the stab in the back myth to nazi ideology was the kreigsmarine ever able to shake the stigma associated with the kiel mutiny? If not how did this stigma effect the navy's influence within the high command.
"dumping pure oxygen and kerosene into a cylinder would make the torpedo travel really fast, but instantaneously and in all directions at once disassembling itself and any nearby people with considerrable enthusiasm" this is why I love Drach
A super funny way to explain that the torpedoo would explode... xD
Fun Fact! In Rocket Engineering Circles, this is known as a RUD: Rapid Unscheduled Dissassembly
this raises the question of "when was wernher vod braun in japan?"
von
Entirely unacceptable behavior for a torpedo that was intended to smite the Emperor's enemies
I love your understated title. Calling a Long Lance a "long range hole poking device" is like calling a nuclear warhead an "enhanced negotiation tool."
This made me laugh so hard thank you 😂😂
You must have a warhead yourself. Bald, I presume? Looking angry all the time?
That's right.
I'm so glad I decided to read this random comment 😂
Which it is!
Japan had an unexpected ally for defeating the US Navy in the Pacific - the Bureau of Ordnance.
you mean the Bureau of Disiordnace, perhaps?
The Bureau of Graft and Corruption you mean.
I like to think the bureaucrats from the German TVA and the American BuOrd are kept in a special nautically-themed section of hell designed for lazy, negligent torpedo designers.
@@gastonbell108 I don’t know much about the Germans, but the US designers probably did about as well as they could with the resources they were provided. The people to blame would be those that decided to not fund proper trials before equipping the navy with the torpedoes and those that refused to accept the field reports of failures. Both of those are going to be above the paygrade of the torpedo designers.
Highly recommended viewing - “Failure is like Onions” by @Drachinifel He covered the story of America’s torpedo fiasco in great detail. The comments section was enlightening as well.
"they hadn't yet invented the Machine Spirit" *Sad Techpriest noises*
TECH-HERESY!!! One does not 'Invent' the Machine Spirit! The Machine Spirit is an aspect of the Omnissiah and the Machine God
I had to double take that machine spirit comment when I first heard it. "Wait. Machine spirit.... Did he just?..." "Smite the Emperor's enemies" ah. Yes we've reached 40k in naval discussions. Excellent.
It has nothing to do with "inventing". They just didn't bother lighting the incense or applying the sacred unguents to the Machine. Of course it didn't work.
@@MrTorchboss I think he has made parallels between the Imperial cult of 40k and the Japanese worship of their Emperor during WW2 before
One does not invent a machine spirit. HMS Warspite is one example
The Type 93: one of history's prime examples of 'Just because you can't do it, doesn't mean your enemy can't'
More like: Just because you _won't_ do it, doesn't mean your enemy won't. Suicidal madness like this was in very short supply among the allies.
@@tremedar I'd probably call that an addition rather than a substitution, but still, point taken.
@@tremedarIt's wasn't a suicidal madness. If it were, the torpedoes would not have been used during the war or became successful during the early phase of the war. Japanese have successfully figured out a way to turn the dangerous idea into an effective and manageable weapon, while the Allies could not and gave up. If the Japanese failed in its development, they would have not used this weapon. Type 93 Long Lance Torpedo was a successful invention of the Japanese people
@@korggg123 Manageable? When allied navies finally recovered from the initial sucker punch, Japanese ships starting dropping at a precipitous rate, and not an insignificant number of them because someone shot those torpedo mounts and detonated the fuel.
@@tremedar If you want to say something as vague as 'not an insignificant number', then at least bring in some numbers. Japanese ships started to drop at a precipitous rate after the mid-phase of the war because the US gained superiority in both naval and airpower in terms of number (more than 100 aircraft carriers including CVE capable of deploying hundreds of aircrafts constantly) and technology (radar-guided fire control system, computer-assisted AA batteries, guided torpedoes, better damage control system, better aircrafts, etc) NOT Japanese ships randomly self-exploding during the battles
BoO: "This torpedo can't possibly exist!" Everyone: "Why???" BoO: "It works!"
BuOrd: "A working torpedo? I smell HERESY!"
Kamchatka: "SEE! I WAS RIGHT! TORPEDO BOATS EVERYWHERE! THEY ARE IN THE TREES!"
@@SephirothRyu i see torpedo boats ........with type 93s from the future
i think if there are torpedo boats in the trees either you're in Florida or something has gone terribly wrong
@@robertserafini560 Both Kamchatka and BoO fit under that description.
“... the Americans are known for having a lot of guns” You astonish me, sir. I don’t believe that I had ever heard this before.
It is known
As an American I obviously have never heard that stereotype as well. *Glances at nearby firearm safe...and it's sibling safe* I doubt it even has a grain of truth.
It is a Obviously an Anti Americanism (As I type off handed and pulling cleaning rod out of my 12 gauge Browning)
This reminds me of a comment from another youtuber on Atlanta class cruisers - "And they put on so many guns that the firecontrol system simply couldn't control all them at once. What a uniquely American problem..."
I'm so confused by this, I thought Americans were renowned for their pacificism and abhorrence of firearms and violence in general?
Drachism of the day: "Seeing as they haven't invented the machine spirit yet"
quick pass the sacred unguents we must appease the spirit of the bomb, by the omnissiah
*as long as the Omnissiah isn't discovered TOO soon, I'd enjoy my AI as long as it doesnt try to take over the world.*
That could be seen as heretical talk depending on how the Adeptus Mechanicus views the existence of the Omnissiah before the creation of their order.
What are you talking about. Kamchatka is clearly a cursed machine.
*yet*
The RN tried Oxygen fuelled torpedoes before the Japanese took up the idea. The RN torpedoes had a nasty habit of exploding. The Japanese found the reason for this was the tight radii of the bends carrying the oxygen caused localised overheating. They overcame this by enlarging these radii thus keeping the bends cooler. My father was an Electrical Artificer (EA) in the RN pre WW2 and responsible for torpedo maintenance aboard ship. He said that he met several groups of visitors from the Japanese navy who gleaned a lot of information from us even though anything of interest was supposed to be covered with sheets. They were still at the time allies of ours, well supposedly. We saw post war the quality of Japanese engineering so really it’s no surprise that they produced these torpedoes.
Nevertheless it was surprising to us at the outset through at least the Battle of Tassafaronga in November of '42. You can thank the US Ordinance Bureau for much of that as they were saying the Japanese couldn't make a torpedo as good as ours right up until we had an intact Long Lance in our possession.
In Milspeak the title would look more like: Device, Hole Poking, Range Long.
still can never forget that wonderful beverage, the Hot Chocolate Flavoured Drink Type Orange
Ships, sinking for the use of.
@@Orlunu orange hot chocolate sounds like the most disgusting thing ever invented
@@Around_blax_dont_relax tasted a lot like Terry's Chocolate Oranges, was quite good actually - maybe enhanced in the perception by the "hot drink in a cold wet field" effect, though
@@Orlunu Or the "oatmeal bar" thing that came in MRE rations, which was tooth-shatteringly hard and which Marines used to joke about being able to sharpen bayonets with.
5:53 "The torpedo would travel at fairly high speed, just instantaneously in all directions at once, disassembling itself and any nearby people, with considerable enthusiasm."
A significantly emotional disassembly
I had to pause the video just so I could have a hearty laugh at that one. Brilliant stuff!!
Sounds far more exiting than "it expodes".
@@kaltaron1284 but we must acknowledge how RUD that would have been.
@@trinalgalaxy5943 RUD?
Minor correction: The denotator wasn't too sensitive, it was adjustable--and overzealous crew will often crank it up as much as they can just to make sure it will explode. To be fair explode the torpedoes did. Later the torpedo manufacturing team will state that "supplying our soldiers with sensitivity adjusting tools is our largest regret of the war".
Were the crews supplied with much information on denotator sensitivity? Unless properly trained cranking it up to 11 would be the normal response in a lot of cases.
@@somethinglikethat2176 I can't recall that on top of my head but IJN is not a prime example of friendly workplace where sailors were beaten every night in the name of "spirit injection", so it's somewhat understandable that information didn't get to the bottom. Plus turning the sensitivity down might sound a bit too cowardly for the taste of IJN officers unless you want to be nailed to said torpedo you may want to avoid saying that. Lastly there's the misconception of "our torpedo didn't explode it must be the torpedo, certainly not our aim" and US navy wasn't kind enough to correct them about it.
@@ArmoredNeko Considering that they actually built a piloted torpedo makes this so eerily realistic that I wonder how much hyperbole can even be used.
@@ArmoredNeko if you use a cheater you might be able to crank it up to 11.5
@@ericvantassell6809 probably a bunch of bored suicidal engineers did it
Good God! The Japanese actually tested their torpedoes..? What madness is this?
And with real ships!!!! 😱😱😱
@@mogaman28 the ship would soon to be scrapped so no losses except a precious metal that could otherwise be scrapped
Its like they were actually trying to win a war
You have outdone yourself, that was so filled with Drachisms that I kept having to rewind due to me laughing too hard.
Exactly, Drach is as funny as his content is interesting.
Rewind isn't the right word but, I don't know what the right work is
Funny thing is, I mentioned Drach in the comments to a TimeGhost video and somebody there was saying they felt Drach was boring and humorless... ...yeah, I have no idea either :P.
This is a golden one for drachisms. I think the last time I laughed so much was when the 1stPS came out.
No wonder Kevin retired his drachisms lists. Who could keep up?
Ah, the Long Lance. As famous for it's effectiveness as the Mark 14 is infamous for it's failures.
opposites like the respective DD tech trees in WoWS one good guns but badish torps at least in low tiers and the other very good torpedos but dogsh*t guns until t10 when the guns actually work ....just
One was very difficult to get to blow up anything, with the other the difficulty lay in getting it to not blow up things.
@@Master_Teaz i dont know what are you talking about but WG made japanese torps unuseable and made them opsolite by shity sweds (thats wgs policy to you "OP now, shit later".). Edit: I gave up of that game long long time ago no longer in it.
The yin and yang of the torpedo world
The mark 14 rarely fails...to fail.
5:49 "And it turned out that if you dumped pure oxygen and kerosene into the combustion chamber the torpedo would travel at fairly high speed... just instantaneously in all directions at once. Disassembling itself and any nearby people with considerable enthusiasm." "Explaining that this was entirely unacceptable behavior for a torpedo that was designed to smite the Emperor's enemies... didn't really tend to work out that well. Since they hadn't yet invented the machine spirit and in any case working out which bit of the torpedo you were supposed to talk to or possibly scrape off the wall was somewhat difficult once it had decided to launch a several hundred meter search into the realm of the honorable ancestors." 😂😂😂That Drach British humor 😂😂👌
He does it better than most ;)
It makes you wonder how many people were killed
@@davidvasquez08 I suspect not many. A hazard like that, quickly becomes a major "don't do this" talking point. To be honest... what the Japanese were doing was basically making rockets that didn't actually fly. Yeah the old phrase about how it's not rocket science? well... next best thing really.
Oxigen: stored in a tank called "Secondary air tank" Japanese sailor: i'm really glad this is just air Japanese officer: yes,...yes... it's only air...
Edges nervous away from the “air”
Mind if I light up a smoke?
@@GaryCameron Japanese Officer: a what?
@@GaryCameron Sounds like a lucky strike.
Mark 14 Torpedo: Who are you? Type 93: I am you, but better
B.E.O.R.D: Who are you? Japanese Navy: I'm you, but competent
One didn't want to blow up anything and the other wanted to blow up everything.
Btw nice pro pic from Genshin impact
Bureau of Ordnance: impossible!
@@weldonwin Its BUORD not BEORD
"Slaps the top of the torpedo" This ones got explosive acceleration... instantaneously in all directions , a pure enthusiats dream.
Torpedo Salesman: *(Instantly gets detonated and sent to the land of Wind and Ghosts)*
@@weldonwin you mean to the realm of the honorable ancestors
I worked for Hitachi in Australia for 20 years in their power systems division. In the foyer of the Hitachi HQ building in Tokyo there is a Long Lance torpedo with cutaways on display. Its held in respect for the tech it had back in WW2.
@Socucius Ergalla Best routers money can buy no less.
Ah yes, the old if we didn't think of it, it must be impossible.
Would be funny if not for the lives lost. And the fact it still happens today.
And it's follow up. NIH. Not invented here.
I'd like to say that in the 21st century we've outgrown this type of narcissistic thinking. But as time has progressed we've quintupled down on it.
"The Vulcan Science Directorate has determined that time travel is impossible". Daniels - "So much for your career".
@@heftyjo2893 The more things change eh?
In 1940, BuOrd saw no reason to worry about the Type 93, because their Mark XIV was absolutely perfect.
Congress slashed funding, which eliminated testing the torpedo in the mid 30's.
USN's greatest enemy in WW II: Bureau of Ordnance
After the War, BuOrd was succeeded in 1947 by the USAF as the greatest enemy of the USN.
And ranking after the USAF as the USN’s #2 and #3 enemies: 2) Hyman G. Rickover 3) Union of Soviet Socialist Republics I think the line actually went: “The Soviets are our adversary; the Air Force is our Enemy.”
FDR was in the running.
That and American Politicians telling the Newspapers that Japanese read, The Japanese don't drop their depth charges deep enough and have too light a charge and American submarines started being sunk.
@@bencruz563 FDR was a former Assistant Secretary of the Navy; had ADM William D. Leahy as his Chief of Staff, and made sure that his Naval Aide became the first Captain of USS Iowa (and protected the Captain from any adverse career consequences when Iowa was run aground in Casco Bay, Maine). After Truman succeeded him, it was observed that the President’s office was no longer “a Navy wardroom”. Now, if you’re talking about moving the Pacific Fleet from San Diego to Pearl Harbor, and relieving CinCPAC ADM J. O. Richardson for opposing that move . . . HST, an Army Artillery Captain in WW1, was considered to be a much bigger enemy by the USN-particularly after USS United States CV-58 was cancelled five days after her keel was laid (allowing the funding for the carrier to be reallocated to the Air Force’s B-36).
Japan - "Behold, the Type 93" The West - "Does it have fancy nickname?" Japan - "No." Samuel Morrison - "How about Long Lance?" Japan - *Holds chin for a moment thinking... nods vigorously* "Yes, that will do nicely."
Firing a Type 93 at the start of this video would result in a hit 10 minutes after the end of the video (40,400 m (44,200 yd) at 61 to 65 km/h (33 to 35 kn wikipedia))..
really put things into perspective about the range
The IJA General in command of the landing at Bantam Bay was on one of the ships the IJN sank during the Battle of Sunda Strait and had to be fished out of the sea. Given the nature of the relationship between the IJN and IJA, we can only suppose that the torpedoing of the Army transports was, indeed, an accident. There's a famous photo of the Mogami as she was slowly retreating from Midway. What's striking about the photo is that you can see multiple torpedoes hanging out of the side of the ship. Clearly they were trying to get rid of them, or failing that, get them as far away as possible. I've always wondered what would have happened if the plane taking the photo, probably a Dauntless, had put a few rounds of .50 cal into those torpedoes.
Those weren't torps hanging out, they were her triple torp launchers and they were swung out in the deployed position because, as you mentioned, they were trying to manually jettison the torps after the fire started. There was no more pressurized air to launch them, but they could be loaded in groups of 3 then swung out and pushed out of the tubes into the sea. Them oxy-fuel torps bite both ways, I guess.
@@gastonbell108 Are you sure? Because if you look at that photo carefully it looks like the conical ends of 2 torpedoes forward and a 3rd trailing into the water aft.
@@MakeMeThinkAgain If we're thinking of the same photo of Mikuma fleeing Midway, the drooping part is one of the smashed tubes in the triple launcher. They were left deployed (swung out perpendicular to the ship) when it was abandoned (after they kicked out as many torps as possible) and before the huge explosion that wrecked her midships, which was when the photo was taken.
Great video. The United States Bureau of Ordnance was a complete disaster. You would think they were working for the enemy. This is the same Organization which was responsible for the terrible American torpedoes which cost many lives in the first two years of the war.
To be fair, the British equivalent was almost as good at doing what they thought their job was (stifling successful weapon systems) as the US Bureau was. Non-bureaucrats think that the 'job' of those bureaucrats in organizations such as the Bureau of Ordnance was/is to design and successfully provide good, operational weapon systems for their respective militias/navies. No, the purpose of these organizations is to maintain employment and budgets for those organizations. To do so means that you need to diligently amend aggressively maintain that your designed and produced products are superior to every other product possibly produced by any other organization. In that sense, the equivalent Bureau of Ordnance Soviet, WWII German and almost any other large bureaucratic organization always results in such thinking.
I would add the fiasco of ordering South Dakota class turrets for the Iowa class when the designers intended to install the type 2 sixteen inch guns. A small problem of too little turret and too much gun. Had to rush develop type 7 guns to fit. These were about 8% less powerful than the type 2s which were already built, left over from the cancelled Lexington's.
@@francoistombe I had understood from Garzke & Dulin that the decision to develop a new lightweight 16” gun for the Iowas was driven by overall weight and space design considerations. That’s now a fairly old book, so has there been new research/revelations about this?
I believe that the US military/navy was not very effective in peace time, at least until WW2. The various wars that the US was a part of until 1945, usually had them make huge mistakes, poor decisions, have technical difficulties, poor commanders and in general lose a lot. But the US has the resources to recover from those early defeats, and the skill to learn from its mistakes and replace its worst officers. It then kicks butt.
@@glennsimpson7659 I believe that was the cover story developed to play down the goof up.
So what you're saying is that a type 93 was actually faster than a Swordfish torpedo bomber if there was any form of significant headwind? 😂
Could you imagine if a swordfish somehow dropped one of these things? The pilot would have to dodge the water spout from his own hit on the way out. 🤣
@@Ralph-yn3gr It probably weighs more than the Swordfish.
@@RCAvhstape It almost does. According to wikipedia the Swordfish I has a gross weight of ~7500 pounds while the Long Lance has a weight of ~6000.
how schizotech the warfare actually , great Britain possesing knowledge to make jet engine yet using canvas and wood airframe to do heavy lifting.
@@jalpat2272 I highly recommend reading "bring back my stringbag" by Lord Kilbracken. It is an excellent account of service with the Swordfish. The point being that it actually worked better than any thing else alot of the time.
My good friend Ted when he was alive told me about being hit by one of these, the crew were closed up at their gun andit was his turn for a smoke , he was sent down onto deck so he could have a smoke, he did just that and the ship was hit in the side, killing the gun crew, Ted survived.
On which ship was he serving?
I'm in the SCUBA business and work with high pressure pure O2 on a regular basis. Soon as this video started I was screaming "Are you crazy!". High pressure O2 is intolerant of any errors or mistakes, and as you so colorfully described, will show what a oxidizer is all about.
High pressure air is pretty intolerant of errors as well… Faulty SCUBA cylinders have ended the lives of a number of divers refilling cylinders.
yeah the only reason this isn't "rocket science"... is because these things travel through water. Pretty good start to the drive for an ICBM though. But one thing I read as a child that stuck in my mind so hard I still remember it clearly 35 years later.... is a description of a man taking a charcoal grill made of sheet metal, filling it with charcoal, adding a lit cigarette as an ignition source, then using a ladle with a 20-foot handle to pour LOx onto the charcoal. the resulting explosion incinerated the steel sheet metal so thoroughly there was no shrapnel. The only thing left was the legs of the grill along with the support ring attached to the legs, and those were half melted. Um... yeah... so... THAT is what pure O2 does. This is why you don't smoke near it....
@@allangibson2408 While true, the thought of everything deciding it has immediately decided to become flammable is a little less comforting. Pressure is scary.
These were the days when rum or laudanum was considered a perfectly acceptable way to get teething babies to go to sleep. 😂
It is incredible that Japan spent so much resources to test their torpedoes while US pretty much didn't lift a finger to test Mark 14s. Putting this video and the one about Mark 14 side by side could teach a thing or two.
Japan seemed to have people with overly large egos in the high command, while US had them in Bureau of Ordnance. The issues with Mark 14 was in large part due the people in the original design team not wanting to admit they made an error. Japan also had a massive issue of a lot of their plans relying on the phrase "if everything goes according to plan" and thus failed when things didn't go according plans in a bad way.
@@SampoPaalanen in an explosive way
*two drach videos simultaneously screaming at me* - I have learned that I cannot focus on two things at once.
Japan spending those resources on the torpedo was part of its problem: where the US invested in its economy, which could then be geared towards war production, Japan ended up transporting Zero's from the factory literally by Ox to the ships, because trucks would break the planes and there was no rail. The longer the war went on, the more obvious it became that Japan was a paper tiger.
@@bubbasbigblast8563 Without mentioning the japanese mentality flaws as well, especially in their command
Yeay, the long lance episode is finally here... going to watch now. BuOrd was right about one thing: THEY couldn't even begin to make a torpedo like that! 😜😤😆
CHRISTIE!!!!!
As designed, the Mark 14 could at best be considered a seagoing party accessory that made pretty lines in the water beneath your ship, made a nice clanging sound, and occasionally showered you with sea spray and/or bits of American submarine. The Long Lance may have been more functional as, you know, an actual weapon, but it was also less fun at parties.
@@aaduwall1 Pity all those fine BuOrd people (using the term loosely) were always so far, couldn't properly enjoy the fruits of their work... There's a lot to be said in favor of the Stalin school of handling bureaucrats.
The BuOrd spent 10% of it's energy designing and testing torpedoes and the other 90% denying, ducking and dismissing issues about said torpedoes. Almost like they were pre-war civil servants who cared more about pleasing their political patrons and preserving their pensions.
@@gastonbell108 Pre-war? Take a good look at the post-war period. James Q. Wilson's Bureacracy is a good start. Or the libertarian anarcho-tyranny literature. Or watch Yes, Minister, ffs. It's gotten way worse.
1:28 for those of you out of the loop, the reason it was named "Year 8" is because the year 1919 was the 8th year of the Taishō period when the emperor Taishō reigned over Japan.
“Reign-dates” are the [initial] bane of the Western scholar trying to convert chronologies in Japanese history to match the Gregorian Calendar. Add that chronologies starting with Buddha’s Birthday, the dating assigned to Jimmy Tenno, the various Shogunates, post-Meiji reign dates become simple. Meiji, Taisho, and Showa cover the periods of substantial international interaction for Japan in the 19-20 century. “Dai Beikoku Banzai”
After the USS Washington destroyed the Kirishima two escorting Japanese cruisers fired type 93 torpedoes at 4000 yards and all of the missed which was remarkably at such a short range. More remarkable was that the USS Washington missed the cruiser Atago at the same range with its main guns. A shootout in a closet with no hits.
They had discovered how to wage peace.
The IJN had 2 "torpedo cruisers", the Oi and Kitakami, that carried 10x4 torpedo mounts, that's the ability to fire 40 type-93 torpedoes. This was on a standard light cruiser hull. Pound-for-pound these cruisers had the most ship-killing potential of any ship in the world. These were old Kuma-class light cruisers that were only modified to be torpedo cruisers in Mid-1941. Strangely, roughly a year later both ships were converted to the fast-transport role. Neither ship played any part in the crucial cruiser battles around Guadalcanal.
Imagine a shell hit on one of those if it hadn't launched any torpedoes yet. That would have been an epic explosion to have witnessed in person. With the added benefit of nobody is going to survive that at all so they're likely wouldn't be too much suffering
@@the_undead yeah, there were was at least one lucky. Hit in the Battle off Samar that blew up a heavy cruiser
@@stevehofer3482 if you're talking about the cruiser I think you're talking about there have been dives on the said cruiser and the torpedoes are all intact so that was something else that exploded on that one I don't know if it's known or what that was but I really can't be bothered to go try and figure it out. Also with what I know about these torpedoes and the physics of explosives one of these launchers with a full set of reloads would likely blow a ship in half unless it was on the size of a battleship, liquid oxygen is not something to be messed with
In the case of the Asiatic fleet at the Battle of Java there was no reliable post battle analysis because of it's one sided devastation. It wasn't really until the battles around Guadalcanal that an appreciation for both the Type 93 and superior Japanese night optics was demonstrated decisively.
imagine if they had germany's acoustic guidance technology that could have been a weapon far ahead of its time.
i read a couple months back about their homing torpedoes.
US had the Mark 24 "mine", otherwise known as the Fido acoustic homing torpedo, usually air-dropped on U-boats which had just submerged. Supposedly illegal to drop on a surfaced U-boat to avoid the chance of any survivors telling the tale back in Germany.
@@grizwoldphantasia5005 more likely would be that these weapons were incredibly expensive so if other options were available because the U-Boat is right there then they would likely be told to take the other choice.
"Sir, they're launching torpedoes." "Idiots. They're well out of range." "They would appear to disagree, sir." Such a holesome device.
Sorry but that just blows.
Also, boo!
"Almost near invisible" The Japanese could've solved the problem by painting the Type 93 purple to make it extra-sneaky. Well, if they were Orks at least.
They did! Or have you ever seen a purple Type 93?
I saw a video from 1944 analyzing the night action off Empress Augusta Bay in 1943. In it, the narrator claimed "recent actions in this area have brought to light the existence of a new enemy torpedo with unprecedented range and speed characteristics... and that enemy cruisers are outfitted to carry these torpedoes" referring to the Type 93. It always amazes me how US Navy intelligence could remain ignorant of such an important weapon, nearly a decade after that weapon was developed, and after more than a year of fighting against it. It would be like a current opponent of the USA not knowing that the SM-6 missile exists.
Well, they did not know the actual caliber of Yamato main guns until they could measure the holes left in the escort carriers after the battle off Samar.
"Smite the Emperor's enemies..." That almost could have been a 40k reference. "They hadn't yet invented the machine spirit." Yeah, it was.
I'd love to hear more about HOW we got that document on the Type 93 in 1940!
+1 indeed!
That was an interesting bit left out of the presentation.
@@theartofthereel455 as much as I would have liked to have seen that included from what I can tell based on these videos, drach is not super keen on the whole intelligence side of things so he tries to leave as much of that out as possible as intelligence is much more complicated than most other things history related
It came in an E-mail.....🤣
According to Hara, the IJN torpedo expert who was there during the battle of the Java Sea, they also managed to torpedo an island.
It's good thing they didn't manage to torpedo a volcano. 🙄
@@mpetersen6 oh dear
I'd have loved to have been in the room when Allied intelligence found out about Mogami's quintuple friendly fire kill.
*Stunned Silence* *Quietly begins to draft a Navy Cross citation for Mogami's captain*
Presidential unit citation?
@@JohnSmith-kg2rt Renames the ship to USS Mogami and awards the full crew citizenship
@@adamperry9755 now the real question was the Mogami really the SOE special agent USS Helena ......
@@JohnSmith-kg2rt Or did Mogami's torpedo officer owe someone on the transports money after a late night of gambling?
One day Drach will also cover the British and German torpedoes and we will have a full set of suicidal self-guided submarines.
To be honest the royal navy loves cannons and distrusts everything else in some way. It's only relatively recently they agreed to build anything that wasn't an artillery bunker that floats. They put a pub on it to remind everyone it's actually an RN ship...
Damm, I just watched a 28min documentary of a Japanese poking hole device. Your story telling makes every topic interesting
These are literally the highlight of my day, I love your narration style "...the torpedo would travel at fairly high speed, just instantaneously in all directions at once disassembling itself and any nearby people with CONSIDERABLE enthusiasm." It's a shame you can't provide voiceovers for history related videos that are used to teach kids in school, I bet they would learn way more.
"Traveling at considerable speed, but in all directions at once, disassembling itself and any people around it with considerable enthusiasm." You never disappoint Drach. Thats why i give you a dollar a month.
The Long Lance of Balance. A weapon designed to bring balance to the Pacific. Gen. Imamura, 16th Army to Cruiser Mogami March 1, 1942: "You were supposed to destroy the Sith, not join them."
Drach’s Anti Torpedo Defences will be sorely tested. The ghost of Jackie Fisher smiles at the Long Lance....except when used on the RN or one of Britains allies.
One defect of the type 93/95 torpedo that isn't mentioned here is the very large error envelope of the guidance system. At 10k yards, the error envelope was five or more times the length of the ship it was aimed at. Therefore the need for mass firing of torpedoes hoping for a few hits. When they were put into submarines as the type 95, this had the paradoxical effect of encouraging the sub commander to fire at such extreme range that his chances of a hit were minimal. Long range was the achilles heel for the use of the type 95 in submarines. Had it only a 5k yard range the whole policy would have been more in keeping of the American sub fleet, get in as close as you possibly can and fire a full spread. Chances of a couple of hits was almost 100% then.
Sometimes when reading WW2 naval history, it feels like the Japanese were the only combatants whose torpedoes weren't an endlessly-troublesome disappointment.
Once the British dropped magnetic pistols, their torpedoes did the job as required. I also believe that the Italian torpedoes, though no world beaters, worked as designed. Not sure about the French, but they had such interesting variations of sizes and and launchers that it would be surprising if they were no problems with them as a weapons system.
From the three major players with a navy in world war II they were the only ones that didn't go for a magnetic detonator which kind of helps because contact detonation in torpedoes was a very well understood mechanical process, from what I understand the British ditched magnetic detonators at some point in 1940ish which means that they ditched them faster than the American stitched their magnetic detonator cuz they realized that this is not going to work
Of all the major players were they the only one that didn't use magnetic detonators in the beginning at least. I don't know about the Italian torpedoes which is why I ask. But if that is the case then that would easily be why because the 30s 40s and 50s the technology does not exist to make reliable magnetic torpedoes. We're just going to ignore the mark 14 as a thing
Anyone who played silent hunter with full realism and mods: "They launched their torps at WHAT DISTANCE !?!?!" :)
The misuse of the Japanese submarine fleet is an underappreciated aspect of the Pacific war.
Their whole sub-antisub thing was kinda a mess.
They should have been better at the end of the war...considering most of thier navy was underwater
The Japanese really learned their lesson after the Pacific War by having the most capable ASW navy in the Indo-Pacific region (aside fron the USN).
Yes. That would actually be a good video for Drachinifel to work on: the total mess and utter waste that the IJN submarine fleet became over the span of WWII.
@@paulsteaven TBH, if memory serves me, they are generally BETTER than our navy at ASW, and inferior at Anti-Surface Vessel.
Look Bureau of ordinance a WORKING weapons system! Wonder how meany Tech-Prests it would take to make one of these monsters
Actually, BoO was quite capable of making working weapon systems, the real problem is that Congress kept starving the USN (and thus BoO) of money. You've got to remember, the Cold War is the exception to US military/Congress relations (which generally went with 'fuck you military' from the Congress side and existential screaming from the military side)...
@@TheTrueAdept Yes but.....the story of BuOrd and torpedos is well understood and it isn't just funding but arrogance and over-confidence by the 'experts'
One Tech-Priest and several Thousand Mech-Serfs, laboring for at least two centuries, most of which would be spent performing scrying rituals to determine in they had the Omnisiaah's favor to commence work
@@earlyriser8998 And testing samples against cliff sides... "But Senator Delayme they all ways explode when they hit the cliff."
@@weldonwin multiple servitors, and thousand of litres of sacred unguent, alongside multiple sacrifices to the local shrine of the toaster
I think we need a "The thought process and mistakes by the Buraeu of Ordonnance" video series... ;-)
That's a lot of videos. Drach would be making videos until the heat death of the universe.
How to Lose Friends and Alienate People
My Grandpa’s LCS(L) would have been split in half, but the ship’s shallow draft meant the torpedo went right underneath where he stood and kept going. It was submarine launched so probably the Type 95. It’s odd to enjoy a video about something that very nearly snuffed out my chance to exist.
I just imagine those lookouts on those transport ships and the minesweeper observing the Austin and Mogami going it and being like "Hmm, that's a pretty nasty scuffle going on over there. I'm really glad that we're not---" *SUDDENLY JAPANESE TORPEDOES*
The second best thing, after the video itself, is the "Long Range Hole Poking Device" in the description.
I think it should be the "Long Range Stealthy Hole Poking Explody Device".
As opposed to the American Mk 14 short range hull knocking device?
@@88porpoise A pacifist torpedo?
@@kaltaron1284 that's pretty much what it is
I was privileged to work on a restored PT Boat (658) that carried the anemic Mark 12 and Mark 13's. They had 330 hp steam turbine powered motors. The first 18 months of the war they failed to explode due to the stupidity of the Naval Bureau in Washington. The contact detonators were set perpendicular to the forward movement of the torpedoes which meant when the torpedoes hit a ships hull, the impact bent the detonator and caused it to fail to detonate. The solution was eventually to make the detonators of thicker ,and harder metal. They were not even close to the speed and destructive power of the Japanese Long Lance. When the Long Lance hit a Cruiser or Destroyer it either broke its back or blew the bow or stern completely off. Guadalcanal Diary and Savo Island battles illustrated the massive destructive power of the Japanese Long Lance. Great technical details in this series. Well done sirs!
First time I have ever heard a good explanation of why the US battleships were able to avoid being hit by type 93s during the 2nd Naval Battle of Guadalcanal, even though multiple US destroyers were hit by torpedoes that same night. Thank you very much.
Congrats to Drach! My godfather lost his USS Northampton to these. Luckily he survived and was picked up!
Holy mother of God-Emperor. Solid Warhammer 40k reference. 10/10, would watch again
"Disassembling itself and any nearby people with considerable enthusiasm!" You have to appreciate anything or anyone who loves their job.
Thanks Drach. You shared an interesting detail I didn't know. Their extensive testing program. Unlike the Japanese, we, the US, were too damn cheap to engage in frequent test firings. Therefore our torps were crap at the beginning of the war and for a shamefully long time AFTER the war. Lots of Allied sailors died who need not have died, and lots of skippers were blamed as failures when it wasn't their fault at all. BuOrd denied anything was wrong with the torps. Ferociously. There was PLENTY wrong with our torps. On the other hand for one,in the plus column for us, IJN Mikuma was destroyed when we managed to detonate her Type 93s at the tail end of The Battle of Midway.
To be fair to Bu. Ord. , building something like the Type 93 was beyond THEIR abilities...along with other things like tying their shoes without an adults help or knowing not to lick a light socket.
"Long Range Hole Poking Device"... why didn't anyone name torpedoes like this?
That may be a direct translation of the Chinese term for them. Or possibly "Angry Boom Fish."
@@johnassal5838 We call them 'fish of thunder' in Chinese. Angry BOOM fish is close enough.
@@tomhsia4354 It's probably worth remembering that Robert Fulton originated the navel use of the term 'torpedo' back when it was just a towed sea mine and considering the name was already in use for a range of electric rays the actual English word too is essentially 'electric eel' and an alternative translation of the word could rightly be 'a very nasty shock in the water.'
Because NASA hadn't been invented yet.
Most would be "Medium to Short Range hole poking device", unless early war Magnate Torpedo in which case most would be "Probability not Medium to Short Range hole poking device" Does not sound as good.
Speak to the machine spirits. Love 40K . A master class on how to render an otherwise dry topic hilarious. Keep it going. Brilliant.
Pretty sure that incredible Japanese torpedo TKer is immortal and he plays World of Warships a LOT
Well, at least the Japanese tested their torpedo, unlike the US who just assumed it would work, you know... because 'merica!
Aiming it at the Chinese navy really don't count as testing.
Not just tested- the Japanese TRAINED with live fish.
@@somercet1 Kind of like how the 737MAX worked out. Testing, why do that when the government don't give a crap?
@@somercet1 I studied the subject in ROTC. Depression era US defense spending led to a ton of skimped upon projects. Torpedo testing simply was not in the US Navy's budget. That's the official line. But here is what I learned when I dug into it. Testing wasn't going to be in the US navy's budget until someone made them test it. There were two reasons: First: Some admirals wouldn't take responsibility for failure or claimed success when there was none. They did this so they could maintain their jobs, or get a promotion because if caught screwing something up, then they would be out. The admiralty was also required to compete for money within the navy for their pet projects. The best connected or the most 'loyal' to the navy's over all plans usually beat out other, less savory projects. Testing torpedoes or even developing torpedoes wasn't very high on the list of glamorous jobs in the Navy so the guy in charge basically sold his superiors on the idea that the machine performed flawless despite any testing. On budget and on time. Yes sir because if it wasn't, then kiss your pension good bye. Secondly, : The Bureau of Ordinance was a cesspit of bureaucrats who had acquired enough power to lord over the navy's RD projects and jealously held onto it's political power, refusing input from the field and criticism of it's policies. Getting any money out of them would be impossible. This environment fostered the belief that the torpedo would work, period. Because they said so. And of course, we know that's not true.
@@somercet1 Some readings in History, U.S. might be in order. Prior to the mid-30's when had ANY Congress (from which the $ flows) been open-handed with Naval spending? Aside from the brief post-coital glow of the Spanish-American war, I mean. Only when the "yellow-press" pushed our imperialistic colonial aspirations did the Congress fund Naval expansion.
"Father, we can't eat this fish!" _"Wha- oh God, is it Lent again already?!"_ (Modified Leo McKern/ Ladyhawke ref, pardon, boyz...)
Seriously, you can hear the sheer joy and satisfaction in Drach's voice, of knowing that he's thoroughly outdone himself coming up with the narrative for this video, hehehe! And I certainly had a proper chortle, thank you very much!
5:52: Drach's Brit humor at peak form.
Indeed a brilliant 40-ish seconds of Funny
Italy developing some sort of streamlining to make a machine go faster? I’m shocked! Shocked!
Hilarious! xD
For a good description of doctrine and use of the long lance read the book Japanese Destroyer Captain by Rodger Pineau and Tameichi Hara. Captain Hara was known as the miracle captain from China to the wars end. He as a torpedo specialist designed the tactics and tactical use of the torpedo and his battle descriptions are very good.
I like to build 1:700 scale model warships. While not working on them in my spare time, I like to read about the ships or navies of my subjects I'm currently building. So I'm building IJN HAYASUI & reading Hara's book.....again. Paul Dull's account of IJN battles is up next, when I finish Japanese Destroyer Captain. And yes- by many accounts, Hara was the premier tactician when it came to torpedo doctrine & development. And refreshingly ? He is not affraid to criticize what he views as mistakes, particularly where Yamamoto was concerned. The book deserves a space on every bookself of naval enthusiasts. Btw, my friend: can you recommend any other books of this calibre as far as personal accounts in the IJN ? While we're at it ? I'll recommend The Last Cruise of The Emden by Edwin P. Hoyt for you to read. While not a personal account ? An EXCELLENT read there, chief !! 🚬😎
"oxygen loves to react with anything it can get its molecules on" ....literally!
War thunder taught me how good these torpedos were. I fired a salvo on an open map, missed my mark, forgot about them, and then started getting random kills out of nowhere because my torpedos landed enemy destroyers and cruisers across the map.
This is an important (and well done) addition. Not often you see a weapon be such a fulcrum of battle doctrine
Outstanding work, Drach.
Thank you! Your details of this subject was absolutely amazing!
That WH40K reference caught me by surprise!
Q&A: Drachinifel, I've always wondered/felt that the reason why so many Torpedo Defense Systems failed during WW2 is that on the Axis side, Both the RN & USN were using the noticeably more powerful Torpex (Torpedo Explosive) instead of the WW1 filler which was basically TNT, and for the Allies using ships built to RN & USN specs (most of which were built in UK or USA) the IJN was using exceptionally large warheads filled with TNT.... Your thought on this? (Of course, this is when the USN Torpedoes actually went BOOM!!! when they were supposed to!)
This generalisation is not really true. All sides improved the lethality of torpedo warheads as the war progressed (the British by adding powdered aluminium to the Torpex) but it was really the number of hits rather than the power of any particular hit that sank battleships, particularly where air attack was involved. Older ships took fewer hits to sink, as a general rule, but bulged WW1 ships like the Queen Elizabeth class resisted underwater explosions about as well as WW2 designs with internal torpedo protection, and no battleship sank in WW2 from a single torpedo or mine hit in the way that had occurred in WW1 (e.g. HMS Agamemnon). There was a large amount of chance involved. It depends a lot on where the torpedo hits the BB’s side protection system, and the IJN made kills with smaller as well as larger torpedoes. The 6 x Type 91 21” aerial torpedoes that sank Prince of Wales had a 330lb TNT/Hexyl warhead that was within the design parameters for the POW’s torpedo protection system, and a midships hit on the Port side did not penetrate the side protection system. The real damage was done when the port outboard propellor shaft was hit and bent by a second torpedo, which whipped while rotating and opened a flooding path to the engine rooms. There was really no way to protect a BB’s propellers and rudder from torpedo damage (though the US South Dakota’s used a skeg system that might have helped). British aerial 18” torpedoes with small warheads penetrated the Littorio’s Pugliese side protection system at Taranto, and flaws in the Yamato class design of its side protection system rendered it susceptible to damage from all US aerial torpedoes. Also, damage control training was much improved as WW2 progressed and experience gained, and damage control was helped by additional diesel generators and shockproof mountings during refits. So it is difficult to see any linear relationship between increased torpedo explosive weight and more BB sinkings. If that was in fact your query.
@@glennsimpson7659 What I was inquiring about is the Torpex (Aluminized (plus a few other things) TORPedo EXplosive made the warhead much more effective pound per pound (or Kg per Kg) than the WW1 torpedo warheads. This could be why various ships rated to stop the charge weight of a 18" Torpedo (or even a 21" Torpedo) failed. (British = RN) Also, WW1 they often had poor watertight compartmentalization, coal dust and small bits of coal could and would cut the rubber gaskets that seal the watertight fittings. Not to mention all the near waterline portholes that probably would have their glass brake and/or spring loose allowing water to enter if the bow would sink a bit due to damage. I never said a single hit would sink a BB/BC/CB during WW2, but I was wondering if the increase effectiveness of RN/USN Torpedo charges was why ship's underwater protection systems were breached.... Also note that IJN torpedo warheads were bigger than a similar size warheads. In fact the IJN 18" Type 91 Aerial Torpedo in a few of it's mods actually was heavier than either the RN's or USN's 21"! And their Type 95 (submarine Torpedo was also heavy to very heavy for a 21" Torpedo (once again depending on which mod your talking about...)
Really well done Drach
Thank you, Drachinifel.
Loving these videos! And I respect having no adds in the middle of it too, just start to finish education!
I was watching the Mk14 torpedo video a couple of days ago and was wondering if you might cover the Long Lance as well, and here it is. Brilliant!
@Drachinifel your content and the research you’ve done for these videos is spot on.
Hi Drach, you have no idea how many times I have searched for info surrounding these. Love your work and thanks for providing.
Ahhh, energetic chemistry.
Yeah, science!
So named as much for the running speed of the reaserchers as the speed of the reagent.
Love the tone of delivery ,very droll and extremely informative!😂
I've been anxiously waiting! Excellent as usual
Mark, thank you so much for these videos. I learn something new each time. Regards.
Fantastic! And I must say, each video title is better than the last!
Good morning Drach thanks for waiting 'til a reasonable time in the USA this time.
Starts chanting USA in Australian
Also a good time for EU folks, as it's around lunch time.
@@ThatSeanG Or better yet, Canadian. U S EH
No no no, it's certainly all about the US. Everyone knows the US is the only country in the world after all
@@tommeakin1732 The only one that matters is what I think you meant.
Excellent presentation ! Well Done .
Great vid Drach! Thanks for the enlightening info! Love your humor.
I'm really beginning to look forward to my Rum Ration every Wednesday. Great stuff!
A video that shows why the 2nd pacific squadron had a fear of torpedo boats
You, good sir, are a master of understatement. Another great job. Keep em coming!