Blacksmithing For Beginners - Working With A Coal Fire
2024 ж. 12 Мам.
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Blacksmithing For Beginners - Working With A Coal Fire. This video discuses how to build and maintain a coal fire
Blacksmithing For Beginners - Working With A Coal Fire. This video discuses how to build and maintain a coal fire
I have watched a number of your videos on blacksmithing and may I say how much I appreciate your superb command of the English language, your interesting structure of the contents of a video, the expert and to the point hanďling of the anvil,your forge and the hammer together with various anvil tools. You dont waste time getting to the point and neither do you patronise the video watcher. Thank you sir. You sure are an excellent blacksmith and an example for me to follow and strive to command your skills....! From Philip in Kleinfontein South Africa
Great vid I just started with coal and this was one of the best instructions thanks
Yet more excellent info and guidance. Thank you Dennis
Great Teacher, thank you for a nice clean lesson... no distractions... just good clean delivery of information.... wish you the absolute best.
Thank you for putting this together Dennis. I have been smithing for awhile now but felt like I needed more instruction on how to manage/run the fire. This helped me a lot. Something that I would like to hear you talk about and use with your diagram of the fire pit is an oxidizing fire and a reducing fire. How to create one and prevent the other. How to tell just what one has going at any given time. Thanks again.
I guess I need to redo this video. I thought I had covered this here but you are right I was heading in that direction and overlooked it for some reason. ThanksI explained how an unattended fire can burn hollow but the unwanted side effect , that I forgot to mention, is an oxidizing fire because the air is not consumed by the fire before it reaches the steel. This unconsumed air can then react with the steel and cause it to burn like a cutting torch. So an oxidizing fire is any fire that is being supplied with more air than is needed for complete combustion. This could be from a hollow fire or a solid well maintained fire with a heavy air blast. A true reduction fire is not possible in a solid fuel forge because there is no way to force an excess of fuel through the system the same way you can with a gas burner and furnace arrangement. The best we can achieve is a neutral fire where all the air is consumed in the lower half of the fire and the heat is driven up to top half of the fire. The top half of the fire is neutral because the fire from the bottom half is supplying the heat needed for combustion but the upper half is burning by consuming the air around the coals not from an air blast that must pass over the metal. If this type of fire is maintained you can theoretically hold a piece of steel at a welding heat for any length of time because there is no air to react with the oxygen on the surface of the metal.
..Thanks Mr.Denis !! I have learned a lot from your explanations and demonstrating. You are Truly a Gifted and Knowledgeable Teacher...!!!
DF - Thank you very much for the lesson. I have been having issues keeping my fire up for some time now. The first two or three hours are good, then I would start losing fire. None of the books I had not read had stressed packing down from each side into the fire instead of from the top. Following your method, yesterday hour ten was as good as hour one. Now if the hand was as good as it used to be! Thank you.
Dennis, what a great explanation of forge management and fire maintenance. Well done , sir!
Extremely helpful information! Thank you so much!!
Thank you. I watched video several more times and everything came together. Love that solid fuel over gas.
Excellent video!!
Great class.
Thanks so much. I really needed this video!
Thank you for the informative video !
Thanks for sharing that precious knowledge !
that was great :-) very big help :-) thank you
Amazing video. Thank you!
So glad I found this channel. Awesome info! Thanks for sharing! Definitely subscribing. 👍
Great information, thanks for sharing
thank you for the class im just starting
thank you for the free education!👍
very informative , and i learn.t a lot ...ty
Thanks Dennis
Great info, thank you for sharing 👍
Excellent tutorial
thanks sir for the lesson
Thank you sir👍🏼 ...
Excellent video - thank you!
Blacksmith basics from the beginning, nice one, take care Tim
Great video for me, coming back to blacksmithing after a long time away. I work with a standalone pan forge with a hand crank blower out the middle, about 16" diameter, around 3" deep. The last part of the video really clarified how I should work with it, I've been way too light on the amount of coal in the forge at any given time which probably explains a lot the problems I've had. Thanks!
Thanks for the great video. I still struggle maintaining a good coal fire and this has some nice explanations that I had quite heard before.
Denise you're the man. Best forge videos ever
Damn Clinkers!
So glad I watched this. Keeperlit🙌
Im not a beginner but I still like to watch to see how others do things, sometimes I get a little inspiration doing so... Thanks for the Vid.
Thank you
Great explanation
Hey there Dennis. I really appreciate videos like this detailing how things like a coal forge work. To be honest it all looks rather complicated but I'm sure once you've been at it awhile then I'm sure it starts to become second nature. Right now what little forging that I "have" done has involved using a gas forge so I've not tried using a coal forge yet. Hopefully soon that will change though. Many thanks for a very detailed and educational video. And you now have a new subscriber
DF thanks guys ..really interesting..looking to build one...
Thank you for the wealth of knowledge. So many of the finer details and answers to my own questions, you have addressed for others here in the comments. Well worth the time to read them.
I'm about to begin some light forging. This is *most* helpful. Well organized thoughts and a very good presentation. Thanks...subscribed!
Thanks man im just getting started actually just built forge today
Excellent video. I'm going to build a forge for coal. This has been very informative. Keep videos coming . Thank you
Well I just learned some stuff. That really helps a lot, good lesson. Looks like I'll be building a different poker. Lol. Subscribed!
This is amazing. It's very helpful. Thank you, Sir.
Awesome video. I learned a lot of what i've been doing wrong. I wondered why my ball of heat floated up and then died off. Thank you so much for this!
many thanks for your explantions and videos. they are a great help in my firtst steps in blacksmitting. I've built a fire pot accordingly to the spec's you've given and it works perfectly. Tryed and succeeded a forge weld w/o flux as well. Greetings from Belgium
I like your style:-)
Wow! On your fire control I been clean all the dust.I been adding wood papers in a bbq fire starter basket .Tommorro getting that hose setup. Thanks again Sir
I'm hoping the thread is still active. How do you keep the fire small? You know, to do some localized heating and conserve fuel? Great video, great teacher. Thank you.
thank you.. its helped me alot. acutally am going to start a work work with coal.. i m going to make a furnace with coal i mean coal seams.its helps me how to maintane a fire .thanks
Just got my first anvil. Its crap but should get me started. I'm learning alto from this video. Thanks.
Thanks so much. Some of this I just kind of knew intuitively, but I had never had it explained point by point. I have had several moments where I knew something was wrong but no clue what. So I would just tear apart the fire until something made itself obvious...That is some wasted effort to say the least, I'm sure I am not alone in this.
Dennis, many thanks for a very informative video. I'm starting up playing around with forging but I've never even seen a coal forge in real life so I know nothing at all about one or how to maintain it. Thanks to your video here I now have a clue at least so when I start really getting into the forging then I will have to try that out. Right now I've got a home made gas forge that I am using. Now while it seems to work pretty well it "is" small so right now I'm very limited on what kind of projects I can do. With a coal forge I believe I could go ahead and do some much bigger projects. Once again, many thanks! Keep up the good work sir.
It can be really an advantage to get out the dust and slag or you could end up with a so called "black fire" that grimes the iron and produces more slag (if the fire is hot enough to melt the dust and ash) and so on.
It's quite a coincidence that you made this comment now. The old firepot that I used in this video had a large opening at at the base so most of the dust just fell out the bottom. I've since replaced it and I have been noticing lately that the fire is a little harder to manage. I'm not having the scale or grime buildup you mentioned there is just more non combustible dust that I now have to deal with. I just recently came to the conclusion that I needed to rebuild the grate to solve the problem.
you are great at what you do ,sir. thank you for the video
I have a question though is there a certain type of coal to use?
I'm using a soft bituminous coal. It's what is available here.
I have asked a couple experienced blacksmiths about the preferred coal to use and both said bituminous. Don't remember why the harder anthracite wasn't, maybe doesn't coke as well.
Very helpful,,,, My first attempt was with a flat bottom rivet forge, it did not go well. I am now ready for a second try with a fire pot,,, thanks.
I recently discovered that the klinker after your done and it's cooled off you can toss it in your garden or compost pile ! Or add it to Manure it still has Minerals at a point so that's just an idea put it in flower pots ! ???
Just found your channel, I really like how well you explain everything your doing. I’m interested in getting into blacksmithing as a hobby. What basic tools should I look at getting to get me started?
Of course if you have the ability to set up a welder, drill press cut off saw etc. That is were you would start because that will pay for itself by building just about everything else you need but as for blacksmithing I would concentrate on building ( or buying ) a really good forge. Everything else can be makeshift but if you can't heat the metal properly that will really limit what you can do. 90% of blacksmithing is reshaping metal and that is all done over the main body of the anvil so any large heavy block with a hard surface will work as an anvil and any type of hammer work to move metal. I used regular machinist vises for years until I found my first post vise and vise grips were my first tongs. The important thing is to get working any way that you can. Take classes or find any smiths working in your area that can help you out. You will figure out what you need by figuring out how you want to work. Everybody has a different opinion on it and you will too when you are done.
keep em coming friend. I think I'm going to start building bot coal and Propane forges and try to sell a few along with jigs, fixtures etc for knifemakers along with all of the other stuff.
I think that is the best way to do it. Put it all out there - see what sticks and go with it. At least you are on the right side of the the border. I stopped selling years ago because of the hassle at the border and shipping costs. You certainly can't go wrong with supplying the knife making trade. It's got to be a money maker - I'm not interested in it. LOL
DF - In The Shop- I agree Denis! I'm sending a few different fixtures to a knifemaking friend. she will test and critique. I'm just going to design and build several ideas and ask experienced friends to test and critique, take the best of the ideas and put them on a website. Maybe some of my KZhead friends would add a short to their videos. it might help me get off the ground...
You know if there is anything I can do to help - you got it.
DF - In The Shop- thanks brother, I will when it's time. I will be in touch.
thank you for this video. I'm just now getting started in blacksmithing I built a forge and use a hair dryer for air. ( will 1 day improve the forge) but for now it's a brake drum with a hair dryer I also don't have anywhere I know of to buy coal local so I use lump char coal some I buy and some I make. now all that being said my question is do the techniques you described apply to the char coal as well. thank you for your time and sorry for such a long post
Doug Franklin Wood charcoal was the fuel used by blacksmiths for centuries in England until they cut down all the trees, and then they were forced to come up with another fuel, coal (coke). So there should be some info on using charcoal for fuel.
Can you recommend a good place to order coal from? I am new to this and live in a very un-coal-y area of the US (down in Louisiana). Love the videos!!! Please keep them coming. Thank you!!!
I would start by finding the blacksmiths in your area check out the local craft sales and gift shops if they know of anyone. Also most people interested in blacksmithing make a living as welders or machinists so you can check the local shops if they have anyone. You can also join abana.org ( Artist Blacksmith Assoc. of North America ) and find your local chapter. Every state has at least one. I believe Tractor supply still sells anthracite coal in bags?
DF, thank you for taking the time to respond. l am not a welder by training but do quite a bit in my spare time. l will absolutely follow your advice. Thank you again. Have a great weekend!
A very helpful and informative vid. ❤ Request/suggestion: on the off chance you ever get around to reshooting an updated version there are 2 things I would have liked to have learned more about, and I think a lot of people wpuld find it helpful too (apologies if youve already since covered these in separate vids) 1) The different types of fuel and how fire management differs betwen them. The coal in this vid looks like bitumenous (guess), but anthracite and MET Coke seem to be equally popular choices, and ive seen at least one vid of someone using bulk feed corn. 2) The different parts of the fire (reducing, etc), and how pot size and the amount of airflow can be optimized for the type of work you most commonly do. Thanks for the educational content. 😁
I am using bituminous coal and it is the only type of fuel that needs any special handling. Anthracite, charcoal and coke do not clump together so they naturally fall into the center of the fire as it is consumed. Anthracite and coke do need a constant air supply to stay lit but that is pretty much all there is to it. I have never used coke but there is good video called "why coke forges are the best" that I would recommend for that.
@@df-intheshop330 Couldnt ask for a more concise answer. I'll search out that vid. Ty and +1. 👍
very informative video. One point I didn't get, is necessary to keep providing continuous air supply even if the fire is very hot. During 1/2hr brake did you stop the blower. Thanks
I'm using a hand cranked blower so the air is off anytime I move away from the fire. Once the fire reaches the temperature you are after it is only necessary to supply enough air to keep the fire at that temperature. To much air at that point will greatly increase the chance of burning the steel.
@@df-intheshop330 you have no idea how much you help me in learning coal forge. I really appreciate your help. Again thank-you sir for posting nice tutorial.
Hello and thanks for all the information! I´m just starting out with blacksmithing and i find your material to be the best i´ve seen on youtube for this purpose. I used coke in my first attempt on building the fire and found that it came in big chunks, leaving a lot of space between them and i think it affects the temperature of the fire. Do i need to split them to smaller pieces in order to get a better fire?
Yes you are aiming for pieces that are about 1" in diameter. This was probably used to fire large boilers so you will need to hammer it down quite a bit.
DF - In The Shop Thanks, i'll do that.
What's your opinion on clinker breakers, i.e. the vertical moving type that looks like a mushroom vs the turning type with a wide and a narrow, tapered side?
I never use the one on my forge. Maybe it's something that is necessary if you are using coke - I don't know but I've built several forges with solid grates and had no problems with them.
Hi thanks for the video. My fire dies down after a while and it's mostly red coals and a blue flame, will the steel get hot enough with the fire in this condition? Do I need to load more coal into the forge?
It will still be possible to heat metal in a fire like that however the metal will have a tendency to burn very quickly because the air blast is not being consumed by the fire. It is always better to add coal regularly to the outside edge of the fire so it has time to coke before it reaches the hottest part of the fire.
This video is perfect but what is the best coal for blacksmithing?
This video is for bituminous coal or sometimes called soft coal.
Thanks I like the way you teach. I know most blacksmiths treat anthracite like the bastard step child, but could you do a show about it and how it differs from coal of raw coal and why it is not an acceptable fuel. It's all that is available in this area.
Anthracite is a very dense coal that burns very slowly. That is the main reason it was popular for home heating. There is a lot of BTU's per pound and there was little danger of the fire running out of control. Bituminous or soft coal is a dirty coal by comparison. In the fire the impurities burn away and the coal turns to a very light coke. This coke is ideal for forging because it burns very hot and very fast when you add an air blast. Unlike anthracite which only burns from the outside in, coke is vey porous so the air can get at the entire cross section. For the short time that I used anthracite the only problems I had was that it needed a constant air blast to keep the fire going and to get the higher temps that you need for welding I needed to build a much larger fire to maintain a neutral layer because the air blast does not get consumed as readily as it does with soft coal. So I do agree that it is less ideal than soft coal or commercially available coke but so is not working. There are plenty of people out there using anthracite and doing good work. It is a different product so you need a different approach, thats all.
could this forging material heat 316 SS rod 3/4" thick to hammer to 1/4" bar?
What about a forge that is just a big V with a long pipe providing air below?
Is it possible to use wood coal? I heard that for knife forging it is the preferred form of call to use. Is that accurate? What are the advantages and disadvantages?
Charcoal is an excellent fuel. It does get consumed very quickly so the forges tend to be larger to handle the extra volume
Do you buy your coal already busted up that small or do you break it up yourself?
any chance you could cover an old furnace, mine has bellows and pumps air from the side 3 inches above the base of the fire
The only video I've seen on this has been from Rowan Taylor. He uses a side draft forge and gives a short but good explanation on how to set it up and use it. Sorry I can't help you much - I've never used a side draft forge. kzhead.info/sun/arCjls6wq4mibJs/bejne.html
The torch you use to start your coal... is it propane? I can only find ones like that for MAP gas and I would prefer one that I can connect to a standard propane bottle like the ones for bbq grills.
It is propane. The torch is made by Bernzomatic . It had the internal threads to fit on a 1lb tank. I also bought one from Harbor Freight. It has a nice torch head but the hose that came with it is really stiff.
Thank you. I have finally assembled the tools I need to begin forging after many years of wanting to learn the craft. Your videos are a great resource!
Would really appreciate some help with my forge, i use a similar design but with the air tube below with a soot trap, and i find my coke (after a few hours of forging) getting coated in ash, no clinkers form, but i can distinctly see the coke covered in a thick white ash, now this ash restricts the coke actually burning, this coke is very large, like full sized coke and it just gets coated :( idk what else to do, ive got a poker that does nothing to get the ash off, the only way to get it off is to wait for it to cool and bang it on the anvil one by one
Unfortunately I don't have much experience with coke because it isn't available here. I would guess that the size of the coke is much too large for your forge and it can't get hot enough for the impurities to melt into a clinker so it just cakes upon the outside of the coke. I would try breaking up the coke into walnut sized piece and see if you still have the same problem. I'm thinking that with smaller piece you will have more surface area burning which should create a hotter fire and produce clinkers?? If that doesn't work you will need to contact the guys that use coke all the time through some forum like I Forge Iron. Sorry I couldn't be more help. Please let me know when you do find a solution to the problem.
Can you do this with a wood fire please? Thank you Really helpful
Yes but you need the charcoal from the wood fire to get the heat you need.
Something I wish you had discussed here was the type of coal used.
I'm using a soft Bituminus coal.
Would this same method apply to coke. Can you do a video on a Coke forge?
Trench Forge Armory a coke and coal forge are the exact same thing. When using coal you burn it into coke and this substance is what burns.
TheBcm27 but Coke is not coal even thought coal burns into Coke. But yes to some degree you are right. Thanks for the reply.
In my experience, the coke forge operates quite similarly. The main difference is obviously that you skip the whole burn-the-coal-into-coke step. That means you don't get the "cakes" of coal that were shown lying on top of the fire here, since that whole step has been done beforehand. Lumps of coke also seem to move more loosely in relation to eachother, so I haven't really had any big problems with the cavities forming at the bottom, as coke tends to more naturally fall into the void. I think coke fires can be a bit more difficult ot get started, so I often have some charcoal or build a wood fire first, and then proceed to coke once the heat is properly established. Hope this helps!
David Brennhaugen Yes. Thanks for the reply
I have a bowl shaped hand crank bottom air feed... should I be piling my coal higher in the middle?...
It would be better to raise the sides of the forge so you can make a deeper fire not just a pile in the center.
I've had to put the metal to be heated down in the firebox, and would like to heat longer pieces. What's the best way to get the heat high enough where the piece is longer than the dimension of the firebox?
I usually start by taking two heats at the far end of where I want to forge. That build a heat bank and will allow you to bring the centre section to a higher heat because the ends of the bar are already hot and not sucking the heat out of the centre.. Then it is just a mater of moving the bar back and forth until the centre section heats up. There is a limit to how much you can heat this way but you can usually get at least twice the length of the firepot fairly easily.
I took some advice from watching the above video for the 5th time (it takes a while to sink in) and kept the coal off the top of the fire and allowed the heat to come higher in the firebox. This and some judicious application of the volume/velocity of air at a relatively low, but constant supply has essentially lead me to the the procedure you describe above. Thanks, as always.
and also does it cause a bad smell enough not to do in a close housing area
raw coal does smoke quite a bit but once it turns to coke it doesn't smoke at all because the impurities have burned out. Even though ( with a lot of practice ) you can build a fire with very little smoke you still need to have neighbours that don't mind the smoke once and a while. Most smith either use a gas forge or burn commercially produced coke to get around this problem.
DF - In The Shop thanks so much for replying
Do you use regular coal? The same stuff you would use in a household fireplace. Could you use coke?
Heating coal is usually hard coal and it does not work as well for blacksmithing because it is so dense and burns very slowly. Coke is actually preferred by a lot of people over soft coal for blacksmithing but it isn't as widely available. Coke also needs a constant air supply to keep the fire going so if you have a hand cranked blower it can be very frustrating.
DF - In The Shop . Thanks for the reply sir. Coke is thankfully readily available here in the UK. This is one of the most informative well presented videos on this subject.
What do u use as the sides of your fordge
My forge pan is made from 1/8 plate. I have a removable fire pot that was cast iron but it's now 1/4 plate and I also have a couple of firebricks beside the fire pot to raise the level of the forge a little to make it easier to build a taller fire. I posted a video last year about replacing my old cast iron fire pot that gives you a pretty good look at the forge.
how much smoke does this cause, can i do this in my back yard with houses close to mine or does it make to much smoke
Timothy Chaffee coal fires/forges make quiet the smoke and sometimes stink. My advice would be to get a propane forge
BigBossTussBall thanks
Made a forge out of an old smoker and can't seem to keep coal going right. When it starts burning right it doesn't seem hot enough
You may be using hard coal? It needs a constant air supply to stay lit and a lot of air to get hot. Hard coal sound like glass when you hit it. Soft coal is very powdery and doesn't have a shinny surface when you break it apart. You can forge with hard coal but don't need to do anything I explained in this video, Just build a big fire and give it lots of air. Hard coal doesn't turn to coke. It just burns from a solid to ash.
The smoke from coal is very irritating ... how do you deal with it?
A good exhaust hood is the best way to handle it. Some smiths also use a two canister respirator to filter out anything that gets around the hood.
Is there any particular reason you're using dry coal?
It's the only thing we can get up here.
DF - In The Shop OK yes I buy my coal dry as well and then put it in a barrel with water
I remember reading about that when I started out ( I can't remember what the benefits were supposed to be? ) but nobody does that up here because we have sub zero temperatures for 4-6 months of the year so a barrel of water would be frozen solid.
im sitting here studying my bloody cigarette.
What are some of the differences when using a charcoal instead of coal?
The main difference is the amount of fuel you go through. Charcoal burns away a lot faster than coal so you may need to build a larger forge to handle the amount of fuel you need to have on hand. Charcoal as a fuel is ready to go so you don't need burn off any impurities the way you do with coal. It can be added at any time and anywhere in the fire. It's a great fuel. It burns very hot and very clean. It isn't used more often because most people don't have access to it or don't have the room to make it or store it.
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How come you chose to forge on coal rather than coke? Here in England if your using a solid fuel forge than coke (smithy breeze) is the fuel of choice for 99% of blacksmiths i know.
I don't have any choice. Coal is the only thing that is available and there is only one source for that. I used gas forges for 20- years because there was no one that would ship small quantities of coal up here.
RobSt007 what part of England are you in? I've only forged on coal once and found it pretty miserable! yeah im rather lucky, at work we get 50-75 bags delivered at once so we get a discount price of £10.50 - £11 a bag.
Hi. I just send you an email today. Hope you can help me. Thanks