Demystifying Underrun Heels And Understanding The Importance Of Good Structure In Horse Hooves
Learn more about hooves and hoof trimming here: myhorsecoach.com/courses/hors...
In this video I talk about understanding how underrun or underslung heels happen with horse hooves. We start off with understanding how a force is applied to a hoof when a horse is moving and standing, to understanding what makes a hoof biologically and then cover why certain angles are better than others and why. By the end of this video you will have a full understanding of the thumbnail picture of how each hoof shape in it is important to recognize and how you can apply that in your life with horses.
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#horsehooves #underrunheels #hoofcare
Thank you for an excellent explanation. The first time I realized the "spaghetti" structure of the hoof was in a video of a newborn foal. I really appreciate the tools you use to illustrate principles, and your obvious teacher's enthusiasm to communicate them. Cute little critter helper.
Thank you very much :) Yes, newborn foal feet are fascinating, great learning from them too!
You have really dove into hoof anatomy deep. Man I love it! Looking forward to all your work!!!
Thank you! I'm glad you're getting something out of it :)
Wow, I cannot thank you enough for this incredible visual/explanation. Very cleverly done and for the first time I actually think I grasp what is going on. Cheers.
Oh Graeme !!!!!! I am overwhelmed with all you do to help us (me) to understand the hoof . This is very excellent explanation .
thank you very much! :)
@@StableHorseTraining ❤️❤️🐴🤠
This is excellent, you are an incredible teacher ! And thanks for presenting Shadow 😘, all black, what a beauty !
Thank you very much :)
🌟🐴The EQUINE hoof. Thank you for your continual teaching in all phases of this topic, giving visual and verbal instruction. I really appreciate your emphasis on the importance of the angle, and the integrity of its structure for the horse to have healthy forward movement.🐴🌟
Thank you! and you're welcome :) I'm glad this was interesting for you
You good teecha. Thank you. Feet are foundation of whole horse. I worry about feet and legs all the time. They are a miracle of a gift to us. I look for you every day first thing. I’ve missed y’all..
I really appreciate the compliment, thank you. I've been busy here so I haven't been able to put out many videos lately, I should be able to get back on track soon. Yes, the feet are very important and without them we don't have a healthy horse at all. I have a small request though, can you modify your comment at the beginning for me please? It can be interpreted by some as disrespectful (I'm positive you don't mean it that way) and I would be remiss if I didn't quickly ask. Thanks :)
I celebrate the clarity of your wisdom, thanks
Amazing video! Super helpful!
Oh that was awesome! Very cool, love science 😁 🐴🐎👍 Thanks Graeme
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks
Thanks for the great video! It was done nice and simple, which made it easy to understand. I can't wait to get to my horse and take a look at his tubules!
Very interesting and helpful.
truly, such a fantastic video. thanks so much for sharing. can't wait to try this on Blender....
Good info
Thanks :)
Brilliant video, thanks.
Thank you! and you're very welcome
Very clear explanation - thank you!
Glad it was helpful! You're welcome
Thanks for the demonstration 👍🐎
You're very welcome!
Thank you for posting,very good information.
Thank you, glad it was helpful!
Brilliant video. Well demonstrated
Thank you. Glad you liked it!
Amazing video - thank you for the time put into this
Thank you :) and you're welcome
This is very interesting 👍 thank you Graeme. Many things we don't know. You are a good teacher explaining step by step 👏 the sole with the bars really looks like a owl, with the two feathers on the head, the eyes and beak. Amazing ! I didn't know you had a black guinea pig. I thought they were both white with coloured patches. He is very cute l
Thank you Martine! Yes, we have 4 guinea pigs now... two newer ones that are younger along with the two older ones from before.
@@StableHorseTraining ah great thank you 👏! They are so cute little things ! What sex ? Will you neuter the males ? They have quite a short lifespan. I had one long ago and she passed away quietly, of old age round 6 or 7 one afternoon. I'll always remember that afternoon. I was so upset.. She used to scream when hearing the door fridge. She loved greens so much.. And her little walks in certain places round the flat, because unfortunately she wasn't clean.
They're all boys. No girls or we'd have a larger family already I'm sure...
@@StableHorseTraining ah ok👍 yes, you would have many babies in charge 😀
Brilliant, just what my girl needs. So glad I found this......excellent explanations
Thanks!
Great explanation
Thank you!
Thank you, it was very interesting and very useful for teaching others how to understand the hoof biometric
You are welcome!
Very interesting video. Not only that hoof on the left has the worst angle, it also has a shoe on. I wonder what should be done to the hoof when someone wants to transition from shoe to a natural hoof, if the horse should use boots for a while, if any products should be used where the nails were to help prevent any sort of infection, or if nothing should be done except trimming and waiting for the hoof to heal on its own.
Transitioning is usually a slow process if the hoof has gone really far down the wrong path like the foot on the left. In some cases boots are handy and help the horse, but not all need it if they don't get forced to do things that will hurt them at the time.
My horse has been shoeless for 6 years and his hooves look like the red example. We’ve had the same farrier for 6 years and last trim was very close. My husband, who stated he knows nothing about trimming even made a comment that they were trimmed differently than in the past. Two days later my horse was treated by the vet for possible laminitis. He was very sore on all 4 feet. X-rays were taken, all good. My question is can these underslung heels be corrected and how would you go about it? Thank for all of the great info you put out in your videos!
Yes, I do believe they can be reversed but it takes time. I always tell people that it takes about the same amount of time to fix it as it did to make it. My very first recommendation is to trim often, weekly almost, at the minimum of twice a month though. The changes that need to be made need to be made often for the first little while so that the hoof doesn't go backwards. It's a big deal to miss a cycle too and I always regret it with my own horses when I go past 3 or 4 weeks for a trim as I'm then fighting the deformation and changes that have been made because I was late to the trim. A normal hoof trim cycle should be about 3 weeks and I think that is attainable after a few months of staying on top the initial setup trim for the heels to come back under the foot and stand tall instead of smashed over. As I can't see the hoof you're talking about, that's the best I can do for recommendations on how to trim. There are good rules to follow, which is why I created a course about it, but each foot is different and requires an understanding of what the hoof looks like before saying much or it would be a bit irresponsible of me to make a suggestion.
@@StableHorseTraining thanks so much! The information you share is invaluable.
@@rhondapopowich3904 did you get help? do you have any info on the set-up trim to help crushed heels? four farriers have failed to IMPROVE my mare, just trim all around amd apply a wedge shoe so the angles of the hoof itself are not changed.
@@judymiller5154 I ‘m afraid not 😑 just had the same farrier trim a couple of days ago and my horse is so tender footed now. I consider my farrier a good friend but will not put my horse through this again. I have gotten the name of another farrier we will try . Really hard to find a good barefoot ferrier in my area. 🤷♀️
@@rhondapopowich3904 I've been exploring glue-on shoes with tabs, thinking hubby and I could manage them ourselves on a monthly cycle, if we could just get tips on the proper trim techniques (he is an ex-farrier). However a gal just showed me pics of a great rehab she did using pads inside boots, which would allow for easy weekly trims! I already have the boots, too. Will look for frog support pads as caudal support is another key. Let me know how you progress ❤️🐎❤️
I learnt a lot thank you
my pleasure, thanks for letting me know
Excellent!!!
Thank you!
Thanks!
Thank you very much!
Thank you for a well done presentation. Looking forward to any more you might put forward. Question. Can the hoof that is running not as perpendicular to the ground be trimmed in such a manner to correct it over time? Loved your shadow by the way. That was one furry cup of cuteness.
Thank you! I have a few more planned and in the works. Yes a hoof can be fixed, it takes time and I always advise people that it can take as long as it took to get that way. Being diligent and consistent is the priority here too as waiting too long between trims can set things back to the beginning quite quickly.
Wow! Brilliant 3D computer modelling, which really helps with understanding what's going on with a horse's hoof! I'll be watching it again to firmly embed the information. How DO you find the time, Graeme, to learn all these skills as well as looking after the horses, teaching riding and being a husband and dad?!!
Thank you very much! That's a good question! How on earth do I find the time... It's a slow and steady thing I guess 😊
@@StableHorseTraining Poco a poco.
wonderful video and graphic explanation!!!! may i just say that I think you mean that the hoof tubules are stronger when force applied is PARALLEL to their lines. The force vector of the horse's foot landing is at a nearly vertical, but slightly angled forward line to the ground, wich is perpendicular to the force vector. The hoof tubules lines that as closely as possible mirror the verical force vector line of the hoof/leg hitting the ground are the strongest. Thus, they should be parallel to the way that that the hoof comes to the ground (the force vector , which is kind of like thinking of the bone of the leg)
Definitely perpendicular, 100 percent not parallel. I appreciate the compliment though.
My question to you. Do horses experience separation anxiety? Your new beauty almost looks 'stuck' in place. The tlc you give all the horses is so beautiful to watch. I love how they learn to trust you.
I believe they do
I was hoping that you would have explained the heels better at the end. Which one do you recommend?
Which one what? I'm not sure what you're asking.
Thanks for sharing makes a lot of sense. Are gaited horses angles of their hooves any different than non gaited?
Not that I have experienced
I love shadow
Thank you for this. I really appreciate your passion for the horse’s hooves. I have always trimmed our horses’ feet and really enjoy it. We rescued a horse with a large calcium deposit on the inside of her right front leg and,after trimming her this weekend, she was a little sore. I inadvertently took a little too much wall off the toe but got her balanced out and she is walking better. I still need to do her front left but she doesn’t want to put much weight on her right quite yet. I am a little bummed that I messed up.
Thank you! Sorry about your horse though, that's hard. With time it should get better I expect and just have patience :)
@@StableHorseTraining Oh, hey. She is better than she ever was. She's walking with zero limp and she pretty much had since we rescued. Thank you so much for what you're doing. I've registered for your course.
That's excellent! I hope you get a lot out of it
@@StableHorseTraining I've done all our horses' feet for around 30 years with the past 26 as barefoot. I do mustang rolls on them and am aware of some schools of thought being to do everything from underneath, which I like. I've done a little filing on the front, mostly for cosmetic purposes but am going to do everything from underneath from now on to keep an eye on the walls.
@@windridr66 that's excellent, I really hope it all goes well :)
so I have a horse with underrun heals for 9 years, several barefoot trimmers tried to correct and it has not happened, Tried glued on with wedge, cast with wedge and maybe nothing worked because they came off quite quickly (no heels?)and trimmer had 4 to 5 week intervals. Since 9 months I trim myself, now every week and so his toes get shorter, but how can I manage to get to grow heel? He lives on gravel and especially in summer wears a lot. But I have not found hoofboots that don t rub his low heels. I do ride him in hoofboots with thick pads Easy care OldMacs. The easy boot gloves always came off in a canter. But even those rub for turnout. Side not he was on sand only for the first few years and did not grow heel either. Have you done a uprighting heel video or section somewhere?
I don't have a video specifically addressing underrun heels for trim as each foot is different. This video was supposed to be the one that provides the education on the "why and how" and then it would be up to the trimmer to look at the hoof and see what needs trimming off. As I can't see your horse's hoof, there's no advice I can give that would be responsible. I can say though that wedges are the absolute worst thing that anybody could have done as it make the situation worse and I very much expect that after 9 years it probably is not fixable as there should be bone loss on the pedal bone and long term lack of caudal (back of the foot) build up of cartilage. My horses all live on gravel 24/7 365 days a year and it's a struggle to keep up with their growth.. Anyways, my expectation is that you're leaving "long heels" which continue to be crushed under the foot and dragged under. This is a problem that requires weekly trims and while the toes are important, the rest of the foot is more important. Heels, bars, quarters and making sure the back of the foot does not hurt. Way too much to cover in a comment on KZhead unfortunately.
Very good video Graeme. Very clear and logical. I have 2 questions. First, in the middle hoof I noticed the hairline was not straight. I was taught that indicated imbalance in the trim that could compromise structural integrity. Do you agree? Second, I have a pony that genetically has very contracted heels with very upright feet (we call them club feet here). My teacher said that I should trim to the shape nature made her and not try to trim her feet to look like a normal foot. What are your thoughts? I always trim her to what it seems her genetics determines and she has never had hoof problems or lameness in 20+ years.
Thank you Ross, I take that as a very high compliment coming from you. Those are two excellent questions actually. Good observation on the middle foot. Here's a rule though: We don't trim to what the outside looks like, we trim to what the sole tells us. First off, I never moved the hair out of the way so my 3D image may be slightly off, but my intuition when modeling the foot put it there. The bump could be smoother. Anyways, it's hard to say if there is a compromised structure with the slight wave in the hoof wall at the coronet band. This could mean that the quarters are jamming up and need relief, but some feet that are half way between fixing will have this. I would be keeping a sharp eye on that change for sure. In an ideal world we would have a more smooth curve and not that little bump, so in the end, yes, we want that to smooth out. If the sole says that the foot should stay in that shape for now, then that's what we do, if the sole has more of an arch to it, then that foot at the ground level of the hoof wall needs more of a trim to relieve that bump to arch with it and in turn would relieve the bump to relax back down. Either way though, I would be curious and ask how the structure is being compromised if there is no flare, no cracks and no splits. A jamming of the coronet band (usually at the toe) can lead to abscesses (very common in the case of the left foot as the hoof wall jams inwards to the coronet band and not just upwards) but not common in other locations. For the club foot (I recommend some studies by the late Dr. James Rooney who calls it more appropriately a "stump foot") I too do not recommend trimming to the "ideal shape" that we see in the middle foot. In fact the foot on the right is just that, a foot I have been trimming over the last few years from an almost parallel to the ground coronet band, to one that is responding well to minor changes in the heel height over time, always in accordance to what the sole says. This horse is still young and can likely made the biological adjustment to a more "normal foot" but I don't force it. Does that make sense?
@@StableHorseTraining thanks Graeme. Your explanation is very clear. Our horses would seem to agree with you.
Hi there!!! Thank you so much! Unfortunately my ex race TB has the 3rd hoof… very low heel How do we correct this?
I have found it rare to see a TB come out of it as they are set up from birth to have incredibly poor feet and as such the pattern is super hard to break because the internal structure just isn't there to have the foot stand up. That said, if you're diligent, it can be done I believe. This involves VERY regular trims and proper ones that will improve the internals. Most farriers will tell you to shoe it, if you aren't already, but that's how that horse got there in the first place, so I don't suggest that. It's a lot to explain and requires spending time to get the education for the job and likely trimming your own horse to be honest.
You are so impressive, but as I'm only a horse lover, not horse person I have a novice question. What if a horse is always on pavement. Such as maybe a mounted police horse,,, do they need shoes ???
Horse shoes on pavement is the fastest way to cause damage to a horse's foot.
So interesting. And so timely, Would love more on how trimming will help mobility. There is a poorly trippy tippy toes pony nearby. Very upright hooves. I think better trimming to get him off his toes might help. Reduce his tripping? Do you think the farrier would need x-rays as a guide? Nothing to do with me but curious as to whether improvement could be made. Love your videos 😊
Without being able to see the hoof I can't make any recommendations. Your observations are subjective and not possible for me to interpret in a way that would allow me to suggest a type of trim. I do think x-rays are quite helpful, but many farriers have absolutely no idea of how to read them or interpret the pathological problems incorrectly etc.
@@StableHorseTraining Yes of course you would have to see for yourself. I just had a google to see if there was a particular training to look for in your farrier. Here we have the Worshipful Company of Farriers. I was reading there is the Diploma and the Associateship. With the latter being the certificate you need to look for if you need remedial work doing. Then there is the Master farrier. Handy to know. I also didn't know that here, it is an offence to carry out farriery or call yourself a farrier if you are not registered. So it's hands off us practising on British hooves! However, I reckon you can't know too much about everything horsey, so owners can know what's what, and how to talk to the professionals who will care for our friends. I think your videos are fascinating. I turned over the little tubes in my brain for hours figuring how they affected all things hoofy. Made so much sense. Perfectly explains why you should try not to skimp on getting regular quality trimming done. Love how your friend had to think about whether he approved of your nerdyness. So sweet.
@@AL-lz1hb It was my understanding that you just can't market yourself unless you had the certification, but you can work on your own horse or help a friend as a friend. I'm not sure exactly but I believe it's like that. I would hate that kind of law here in Canada and I know a lot of people would agree. So many "farriers" are so poorly trained in understanding hooves that they are the ones in fact that are causing the problems. "certified" means nothing when the schooling system itself is so horribly flawed.
@@StableHorseTraining The Worshipful Farriers say how we have the associateship farrier cert that people come to do from other countries because they don't train to that level like we do here. Also the Govt site states doing any farriery is illegal without a Cert. Another registry site clarifies Farriery saying it is any preparation done for the purpose of fixing a shoe. This can be iron shoes, glue on, velcro etc. It is very clearly saying hands of those Hooves unless you are registered. Although doesn't it create a loophole for anyone being able to have a go on retired and unshod horses? I'm not sure? The law seems unclear. IMO. having barefoot horses, I would want the option of filing out any little chips before they became cracks. And I've seen sellers of removable shoes selling little shaped files with their products. Easier to manage than a big heavy rasp. I agree many owners probably make better trimmers because they love their horses and study what needs doing. Probably for ages! I think being able to adjust the foot as and when, to balance it is such a good thing. It frustrates me to see horses, locally (many of them elderly,) waiting months for their trim. They start tripping and hooves start going out of shape. And now I can understand how it's too much pressure building on those tubes! And how it can't all be fixed in the next big trim!! Too often here we find laws are made (for safety etc) that stop good people doing good, while the bad people continue to do as they please.
Underrun heels are often mistaken for heels that are too low, but they are actually heels that are too high/long and then collapsed
That's true.
yes, but how can they be corrected? four farriers have applied wedge shoe, but the hoof angles stay the same!
@@judymiller5154 that’s my question too!
Wedges have the exact opposite effect and always make the problem worse. Correction always comes from proper trimming of the hoof on a very consistent and regular schedule of 3 weeks or less.
@@StableHorseTraining well I live rural and am just done with the 4th farrier! It was his 3rd chance and he left toe and took heel, actually dropped her dorsal angle by a degree she couldn't afford to lose! Where can I learn the details of what you call "proper" trimming? Mare can be barefoot as we dont ride much in the blistering summer heat, she has a good, big foothills turnout and I will trim her myself!!
What is your opinion on Jaime Jackson's theory of the wild horse hoof?
I haven't read up on that guy in forever. What was the theory you're thinking about?
@@StableHorseTraining Whether or not the wild hoof is the ideal proportions
Yes this is a good video, too. But you made this very clear with today’s video. I’m sure you’ve covered the treatment to get hoof no 1 and hoof no 3 (Gracie’s?) to look like Lena’s in the center. But it’s in a training/teaching video. It amazes me how somebody can fix those 2 hoof problems. Wonder, too, how long it takes, whether the more slanted one is harder to fix, for example. And the frequency is also extremely important. Maybe every 3 weeks instead of 4. . Can you ever do trimming too frequently? Probably wouldn’t be helpful to do that since there has to be a certain amount of growth between trimmings.
Yes, I made a course on it :) myhorsecoach.com/courses/horse-hoof-trimming-101/ While I don't cover exactly what a solution is for exactly particularly issues, the concepts are firmly taught and in place to get there. Every horse is different and as such it's quite hard to determine how long it takes to fix things. It takes almost a year to grow a whole hoof from top to bottom and many rehabs require at least 2 full growths.
@@StableHorseTraining wow. I had no idea. Thanks, Graeme! Can you tell me where you get your hay?
Washington
@@StableHorseTraining in the US? What’s the name?
The company I use here is first choice hay it's a Canadian business that sources from Washington from various farmers
How about: grow, synthesized, generated, formed ?? But “born” ?? Nah, I don’t think so 😂 Very nice demo👍
also you have to think about the tendons in the legs and what they are doing
True, but outside of the scope of this video
Do u still have the hackamore video?
kzhead.info/sun/ZKWKl9KBfnibfnA/bejne.html
So how do you adjust an underrun heel or an upright?
You trim early and trim often. Underrun heels can be caused by poor trimming practices for sure, but the majority are caused by long trim cycles. To put it simply, if you're rehabbing a foot then anything more than 2 weeks is too long. Small changes should be made almost weekly but definitely bi-monthly. A normal schedule falls no later than 4 weeks, anything longer and you're going to be fighting distortion and mechanical leverage. 3 weeks is good for healthy feet. In the end, the tubules have to be stood back up, to get that you have to remove mechanical leverage that is causing the back to collapse and the front to move forward and up. This means keeping those hoof walls as tight as possible for as long as possible until they stand back up. All without laming the horse in the process.
What program is that? And is it affordable? I need it for other things lol every modeling program I've seen is thousands of dollars.
It's blender and it's free.
My horse has a hoof similar to the red one, how do I shape it into becoming the green one?
While I can't responsibly comment on how you should trim your horses, the underlying issue is lack of timely foot care. For the red foot I would be trimming almost weekly, a little each time can go a long long ways. Then it goes to bi-monthly and then the longest I let a horse go without a trim is 3 weeks. This fundamental change to how hoof care is addressed can be the biggest difference between the green and red one. From there it matters on what is wrong with the foot and how to trim. Personally, I couldn't find a single trimmer that trimmed horses correctly around here so I studying and learnt how to do it myself and now I teach it. I made an online course to cover the basics and I trim three different horses in it, that might provide insight: myhorsecoach.com/courses/horse-hoof-trimming-101/
@@StableHorseTraining thanks for responding. Unfortunately I can now relate to you, I’m learning now as well as my farrier came the other day and trimmed him too short and he’s now lame.
I'm really sorry to hear that. It's strangely common unfortunately, you're not alone at all
@@StableHorseTraining Thanks. Yes it is, and unfortunately my poor boy is now a bit foot sore but luckily only on hard ground. Hopefully he’ll be sound soon. I’ll definitely be looking into doing it myself, I’m just anxious. It’s a lot to learn, and it’s physically hard on your body. However I’ve always been interested in it, so I guess it’s just a sign isn’t it?
@@StableHorseTraining on another note, I really appreciate all of your videos and I find them very good to learn off of. So thank you ❤️
So am I imagining things or do not put shoes on? If not why? Asking not criticizing.
It's a good question. While this isn't a video targeting being shod or not, I generally advise never to shoe a horse. In all cases of the above problem, it's a trimming issue, the shoeing doesn't cause it, it's always the trim. The thing that can link the two together is what is generally taught to farriers of how to trim a hoof to "accept a shoe". That industry is growing through that for sure, but it's slow unfortunately as the "pro shoe" and "anti shoe" groups become so against each other that information can't go back and forth very well.. but I digress. If I were to answer why not to shoe, it's because we don't need such an ancient technology anymore. We've long moved past putting nails inside the structure of the hoof and a big piece of metal on the bottom of the foot. There are far superior technologies that have been on the market for a long time now that have excelled in hoof protection and rehabilitation. The destruction of shoeing has long been documented and proven so I don't think I need to get into that, but the advancement in hoof protection is somewhat still obscure sadly as so few farriers choose to adopt the new tech due to their knowledge base and investment in equipment in the old technology.
look at that one getting jolly haha
Also in bad under run heels it's a good idea to get an xray of the hoof so you can see how the pedal bone sits . If there is excess toe that can be removed and help restore the HPA . sometimes with badly collapsed heels then a egg bar or at least a straight bar be fitted to equalize the pressure around the hoof wall and the heels don't take such a pounding .
Oh good, another know it all farrier has shown up to let us all know to shoe a horse to fix a problem... Come out of the 1600's buddy and join us in the year 2024.
is that a fruit bat on your shoulder?
oh! it's a guinea pig, yeah?
yes, guinea pig. I regularly get put on guinea pig sitting, this was a short moment of that :)
Well at least a farrier that knows the correct way protocol to follow to "help" a horse recover ! You obviously haven't needed or seen a horse with collapsed heels that they are lame . And shoes like can be made from plastic ! Not just steel so yeah I work in 2024 with all materials that I can buy to aid horses recovery .
good, so you put plastic nails in too? The fact that you suggest to put nails in a horse's hoof tells me how far you are from the the 2000's man. Maybe make your own youtube channel and sell your ideas there? There are still lots of people that shoe horses and will agree with you, why come to a barefoot channel and shill that crap here? it's weird...