when green screen actually makes the movie better
#sincity #videoessay
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Turns out there's so much to say about the production of Sin City that I couldn't fit it all into one video. Last time I talked about how director Robert Rodriguez convinced Sin City creator Frank Miller to co-direct the movie with him, and what the impact of that collaboration was on Sin City's dedication to capturing the art and style of the originals graphic novels. This time I'll be looking at how Rodriguez utilized green screen and other digital technology to make that classic Sin City art possible.
Written & edited by Danny Boyd
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One thing I wasn’t able to mention in the video that’s really neat:about the effects work on Sin City: each of the three main stories that make up the movie were done by a different VFX house. And so each has a slightly different visual identity, the final story (with Bruce Willis) being the most stark for example, with some of the most extreme shots of chiaroscuro. -Danny
That's a funky fresh choice of them
"when the green screen actually makes the movie better?!?" every movie that isn't a drama piece set in the modern day is going to use some green screen. i guarantee you wouldn't want to watch a movie without green screen. typical movie reviewing knowing literally nothing about movies
@@ccshumshum8104 Typical internet smarty-pants contrarian reading a sentence and immediately no longer paying attention. If you had actually listened to the presentation, you would understand that it's talking about how although usually the difficulties of using green screen can affect a scene negatively, in this case the unique visual style of the film meant that they paradoxically made the scenes better.
@@Elriuhilu actual braindead rtard. if i was the contrarian it would be the generally agreed upon norm that green screens are terrible and they would be rarely used, which isn't the case. vfx isn't a bad thing, which is why it gets used. this is a video thats made because a "kino"phile realised he couldn't keep convincing himself that every instance of green screen is terrible like the internet film circlejerkers keep telling him
Is that partially why the bar scene was shot more on set? Or was that due to how many characters appeared in the scene at one time? Just wondering if this was a creative or logistical choice?
It's incredible how NORMAL the overlydramatic and processed the lighting shadows and colors are, and it doesn't bother the audience. You perfectly described that and I love the behind-the-scenes clips to show the difference. Fantastic videos!
The facial prosthetics were far more distracting than the wild lighting, for me at least.
"and it doesn't bother the audience" It made the movie completely unwatchable for me. I'm not just saying that to be contrarian, it's literally a sensory overload of contrast and sharp detail that makes me nausious.
@vinny142 I can see that the comic would probably bother you to. It's kinda hard on the eyes at points
Probably because the whole movie looks like that. It's not "jarring" and "taking you out of the movie" if it's ALL like that!
@@vinny142Do yourself a favor and don't watch the French movie Renaissance.
You really are filling that large hole left by Every frame a painting, and more, with your own take with these video essays... and that was a fantastic channel. Simply really great content.
God I miss Every frame a painting
Wait what happened to every frame a painting?
Right!
@@ColAlbSmi They basicly couldnt justify the amount of work they put into their videos for themselfes and thus ended it.
@Joyexer Apparently, they've just worked with David Fincher on a Netflix docuseries about the history of cinema, directing a few episodes themselves. I haven't seen it yet, so I can't say much about it, but it seems like they've been busy themselves with other projects. While they have said that the channel has run its course and is done, closing that chapter and embarking on new adventures and projects, I wonder of they'll ever return to YT one day...
Great video essay. Who knew green screen tech had come so far! 🤯 when I first watched this movie I had no idea how they pulled off these super dramatic shots with so much BG separation, but now it makes perfect sense. Super creative, thanks for sharing.
Didn't expect to see you here, glad to see you can appreciate a multitude of things (what your channel creates and a greenscreen critique)
The fact this looks better than some block busters is crazy
Hello there :) And I know, for real. It all blends to seamlessly, but you really have to see it to believe it. Thanks so much for watching. I really appreciate the support. -Danny
who cares.. your life has to be really dull to watch dumb movies like this and care to this extent
Hey! Sent you a message on instagram.@@CinemaStix
Sin City does not get enough credit as one of the best comic adaptions ever put to film. Everyone discusses Marvel and DC but this movie was special. I think they tried to recapture the style in the Spirit and then the sequel but it never got close.
It certainly is closest to original source. Nothing is closer, not even the Walking Dead.
Its very good, but for me, "Watchmen" is #1 😁
@@friedrichjunzt Watchmen might have been faithful visually, but it deeply misunderstood the story and themes of the comic. Sin City is the one that got both right.
I can't stand any of the superhero Hollywood movies... I love (Ba)Sin City. What a classic
Watchmen was very good... especially the full version that included Tales of the Black Freighter but no giant space squid loses points for me.@@friedrichjunzt
Granted green screen was not a new phenomenon when “Sin City” was made but it was so different and well executed. Rodriguez understood Miller’s vision and the appropriate use of colour was just beautiful.
This is the exact opposite of Ian Mckellan crying during production of the hobbits because he was acting on set alone on a green screen. That warmth is still felt despite how artificial everything looks.
I think the difference is that in The Hobbit the characters interact in a more natural, realistic, empathetic way, which is much more convincingly performed by the actors when they can put themselves into the emotional vibe of the scene. It's much easier to get into a specific emotional mindset if you are surrounded by things that help make it feel more real, like realistic set dressing and other actors who reinforce your emotional vibes with their own. In Sin City all of the characters are super intense and hyper-real to the point that they aren't normal people with naturalistic reactions, but living embodiments of character traits with appropriately styled behaviours. They don't have "real" emotions, only the ones that advertise their listed traits, so the emotional vibe the actors need to get into is not a true reflection of reality and is thus not as affected by the lack of grounding that real sets and scene partners provide.
@@ElriuhiluI think the big difference if that the actors on LotR were together so much and formed such a bond that the Fellowship actors all got tattoos afterwards. It was a 2 year shoot bonding together. The Hobbit was not.
To follow up on this, just watching some of the behind the scenes shots, it feels much more like stage acting, rather than film acting, and then switching to film acting for the closeups. I refer to stage acting as a sort of "blown up" more exaggerated style that can be seen from the back row of a theater. In this case, it lends itself super well to a comic book style which is already over the top and I'm sure the directors on this leaned heavily into that. What sucked for Ian McKellan (and I get it, even though I'm well versed in black box theater, improv, etc) is that you're trying to create much more nuance and honest and authentic characters and you have nothing tangible to react to. At least with the way Sin City was filmed, you could be on the set of "Our Town" and get those kinds of performances Edit: 7:42 the mention of playhouse theatre, that makes perfect sense@@Elriuhilu
He wasn't "crying" and he did have a point especially about the hobbit. He had already done LOTR at that point and had already seen how with love and care a film adaptation of a beloved written work could be Elevated by green screen and CGI... He knew that the Hobbit was a slap job soulless cash grab in comparison to the original work and be knew the money was there, the talent was there, the effort and focus could be there... But the studios rushed it out as quickly as possible. There's NOTHING soulless or cash grabby about sin city and I don't really see how that movie turning out as good as it does correlates to how Sir Ian McKellen's comments on the Hobbit.. js
@@StygianNightmare Ian McKellen cried in the literal sense when he became overcome with emotion during the filming of a scene in which he was alone in a bright, blue room pretending to have a meaningful conversation with people who were not there. The other person was pointing out how this movie shot many scenes in exactly the same way but they didn't feel as soulless as the ones from The Hobbit. It's a comparison that makes sense to make.
SIn City was a uniquely blessed movie - it had a bunch of very experienced and talented actors combined with an art style that made green screen not only viable but desirable, and a director who is something of a one man band, making it easier for him to shoot out of sequence and allow all these (expensive and busy) actors to be able to come in only for a few days without it feeling off or weird. Can't be done for every movie but it worked out so well for this one.
As a comic book lover, nothing comes close to the first Sin City. An absolute masterpiece
Scott Pilgrim is a close second
Watchmen is great too, but for different reasons
@@preppen78 yes. The movie or the series? I really loved the movie
@@glassosiris the movie. I haven't seen the series
And then there was "One Piece". Makes this movie look like childs play.
Absolutely loved this - nice to have it split into two parts for added depth! Really want to watch Sin City now
:D
I always thought these scenes were actual sets that the actors were in. Thank you for making this video! I really enjoyed your narration and insight.
Thank YOU for watching! :) -Danny
I remember the DVD for Sin City had a special feature where you could watch the movie sped up with all the VFX removed and it was hilarious to see that practically no sets were built at all and there was zero location shooting
@TheJadedJames At first I was disappointed when watching this video..finding out how much was green screened. But now I am impressed with the movie all over again for different reasons this time. This video is one of them😃. It is a movie I kinda forgot about, really.
Must have been so fun for the actors when they first got to see final scenes. Going to rewatch tonight!
I've always respected Rodriguez for pushing the boundaries of feature movies shot digitally, and his disdain for the dogma of Hollywood film making. The industry might say that a movie like Sin City is impossible, but Rodriguez and his friends not only make it, but they make it faster, cheaper, and with more artistic integrity then anyone thought possible. His digital studio (aka his home) in Texas is an absolute marvel in efficient workflow and innovation. His Protools/Avid workstation is insane. Look it up if you want to see magic happen at warp speed.
None of those vfx were done at his studio. They were all made in Montreal.
As a professional editor I wanted to take a moment and compliment you on your editing. Your content has been consistently well cut and presented. Keep up the good work.
Thank you! I by no mean get fancy, but it’s one of my favorite parts of the work.
I remember seeing this in the theater and being blown away. I was talking about it to anyone who would listen, but no one really seemed as blown away by the movie as I was. I haven't really understood why because it is awesome. I really enjoyed this. I had never seen most of the behind-the-scenes footage. I had no idea how creative they had to get. I wonder how hard it was to act with all the fluorescent colors.
The best comic adaptation. Nobody's ever come closer to preserving the original artistic feel of a comic than this.
...maybe Dick Tracy.🤔
I've seen a lot of movies, but never thought much about how they were made until I started watching your channel. This stuff is mind blowing.
Agreed, superb channel. The best book I've read about how films are/ were made is Sidney Lumet's "Making Movies" As a fan of cinema, its fascinating
I think a large reason for it working well is how the movie was stylized to be a "comic book movie", to proudly present itself as "unreal", therefore the uncanny-ness of it all was not only accepted, but expected. Not only that, Sin City itself is a character, almost an antagonist in a way because of it's corrupt nature, and you wouldn't be able to feel that "character" as much if it was a set, much less if it was shot in like Detroit or something
300 and Speed Racer also suceeded in creating a comic book movie as well, while being very different from Sin City.
This really shows how impressive the acting was in this movie. There was practically 0 set, yet every second of the movie you felt like they were exactly where they were portrayed to be
i actually wasn't aware of the way sin city was made... i'm even surprised that i haven't looked it up as the movie is so visually unique. I honestly wish more real life comic book adoptations did this. It's a really pleasing and satisfying result that gives the same kind of feel that comic books gives you, with style and contrast like you mentioned. Damn, that Justice League movie would have been good in this style. All the scenes would just have been so much better if done like this.
It’s not easy.. it’s not easy.. the other two movies that tried this I think weren’t sucessful.
@@npcimknot958 i could imagine. But if more worked with this kind of style i guess the work flow would evolve. It's an obvious choice for comic book movies. Max Payne would be another title that this would fit perfect with.
One of the best film channels on KZhead that succinctly reminds me how awesome and distinct movies, especially genre films, can be. Thanks for the clear passion you bring to your videos. 🙏❤️
Rough to see Bruce Willis enjoying his job and life in general so much more such a long time ago.
Shark boy and lava girl crawled so sin city could fly
Truly
Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow, as well. Came out one year before Sin City and was one of the first movies to take the all-green-screen approach.
It's crazy that the actors only shot their stuff for very short amount of time..... I'm used to hearing about monrhs and months of shooting.... only a couple of weeks sounds crazy..... thanks for making this video. Very eye-opening :)
Shooting usually does take a month or two, post production can take years.
This made me want to watch the movies again. Thank you so much for sharing this. I had no idea how simple and incredibly complex it was to create such a film.
I suspect part of the reason they were able to shoot nearly everything on greenscreen is because every scene is a re-enactment of a panel in a comic book - each being a snapshot in time of generally a small area.
good point
Seeing this in theaters when I was in my twenties was an entire experience unlike anything else. Went with friends, mildly stoned, in an uncharacteristically good mood. It was a great experience seeing this on the big screen.
Another fascinating foray into filmmaking. Thanks Danny, you're fast becoming my favourite and most reliable teacher.
Keep on gettin’ it dude, love these videos and the appreciation shown to good and unique movies, directors, writers, etc.
After seeing this AMAZING, detailed, concise, and beautifully restrained (like Sin City itself. Lol) breakdown you've got yourself a new subscriber. Thank you for posting! This was breath taking. I stumbled here, but man oh man did recommendations really get it right this time. This is one of my ALL TIME favorite films and your explanations have thoroughly explained why it feels/looks so oddly timeless and also why it has been IMPOSSIBLE to replicate. Thanks again.
:D
During this entire breakdown I thought about the words of Sir Christopher Lee who described shooting in a CGI heavy environment as a new challenge that tests acting skills. It really surprises me how actors managed to give performances so convincing, despite the empty and green Sin City set, that I was never taken out of my suspension of disbelief (which someties happens with SW prequels or MCU)
Lee was a legend. 😢
I think it has a lot to do with how you approach it. Here it seems like they approached it like a stage production, which is something most actors are familiar with. Doing more traditional greenscreen isn't like that, and gives you very little to work with.
The star wars sequels were really bad for suspension of disbelief.
to be honest there was not much they had to act out besides mumbling in pain and raw violence. that's why it works. it totally would feel weird if the characters where actually complex and developing with their deep relationships
I remember this movie coming out in the video store when I worked there, and I didn't understand why so many people wanted to rent it. I didn't know anything about comics or graphic novels, or even that there is a difference. I couldn't comprehend why someone would watch a movie about it. But having watched more than 1 video about it, I feel like I missed out. I still might find it somewhere to watch, I guess you could say you've made me curious about this movie
I would highly recommend buying it
All the information you need with no fluff
It's got some really dark, disturbing themes. Be warned
@@Grizzlox I'd hope that was self-evident from the guy with a 1911 slide stuck in his forehead and his neck opened wide :D
@@0num4Always like the guy getting shot with an arrow and just doing a fonzie "Heyy!"
Wow I've been waiting for this for so long. This is great!
so great to see Bruce Willis genuinely having a good time
I feel like green screen elevates the way movie is presented onscreen when done correctly. We appreciate your insights. Keep working hard.
I'm not a huge fan of this film overall, but the look they achieved was fab.
A wild Lloyd!
Lindy we need to save da doggone White race
@@adamcurry8767 it really feels like we bumped into one of those celebrities who's just super duper, like Tom Hanks or Bill Murray :)
how come? would love you to elaborate further!
This film is one of a handful of movies ever made that are actually good. If you don't like this movie, you are weird.
These in depth look at the making of Sin City is fascinating. Please make more.
You got it :)
I think motion also helps delineate between background, middle, and foreground. The billowing coats imply that there's enough space surrounding the characters for their clothes to move. On another note, the full trailer for Killers of the Flower Moon came out some time ago. Watching this made me wonder how deeply the book's author for that film was involved in the cinematography aspect.
I'll have to check it out. Thank you!
The comparisons between the movie scene and the image form the comic were great! It is epic that they were able to simultaneously get so close to the comic book and come up with a striking look that stand on its own.
great video danny boyd :D every time you post i remember youre my favorite channel
:D
This was a great look into the direction and screen effects that I thought were amazing before but after this video I won't look at the movie the same GREAT VID
I love the use of green screen in 300 it flows so well with the comic book style
Yeah, Speed Racer as well. All 3 movies suceeded in creating a cartoonish, comic book style while being totally different from one another.
Clive Owens and Dwight is my favourite storyline, the twists and turns and Dwights personality of trying to be reasonable but willing to fight in the world he was in was always interesting to me
I remember watching this movie in my teens. The hyper-stylized visuals have always stood out when I thought of this movie. This essay really helps clarify the why and the how. They achieved the comic-book look for the live-action film.
Wow, that's actually incredible! Wish this level of creativity could be seen more often...
This channel continues to impress. Great video about a great film.
This has quickly become my favourite channel on yt
:)
LOVED LOVED LOVED Sin City. Thanks for the behind the scenes look at how it worked.
This is a really informative video, thank you for making this!
3:03 - I always loved the color-difference of the joints. Black when the tiles are bright, white when the tiles are dark.
Really good dude. I became fascinated with Frank Miller after reading the Dark Knight when it first came out. So obviously I was thrilled when they planned to make the movie of Sin City. In that time and since I've worked in film and what you've done here is a really good essay. Makes me want to go back and both read and watch again.
Thank you for this video! Seriously! I suffer from a lot of body pain and needed something to take my mind off the current moment. This video took me away from my pain; and I return back to my body with less pain to deal with. Too much info but thank you again and again.
Probably the best two CinemaStix episodes ever. Awesome work.
Sin City has this elusive blend of cinema and theater that makes it special for both actors and audience.
I like videos like these that point out why the movie you really liked, you really liked. It was so different.
Really makes me want to watch this again! Thanks for such a detailed breakdown of the look of it.
Noir is my favotire setting/style and this is one of my all time favorite movies. I never understood why this style was never reproduced outside of Frank Miller's stories. I appreciate you taking me down the rabbit hole of how the magic was made real. Every video more interstingt than the last ,I look forward to your next essay.
I love this movie too, and you speak about it with such respect. great video.
It’s a masterpiece of filmmaking and I couldn’t imagine any other actors and actresses filling the roles of the characters portrayed.
Really great video! Need to go and rewatch this movie now lol
Well done. I enjoyed the story, visuals, and soundtrack.
Amazing fact that this movie heavy on VFX was more akin to stage plays (like Bruce Willis said), but other CGI heavy movies don’t.
been waiting a long time for Rodriguez/miller sin city to get the credit that it deserves! thank you.
These guys need to be in charge of the next Hellboy movie. YES, the story is important, but so it is the unique art style of Mike Mignola, and this is how I'd expect it to be on a Hellboy movie.
Great video, thanks. Might go and grab these films to rewatch again.
One of my favorite movies, thank you for giving it Grace
I knew some of the written version of what they did but I never saw it in action. This is awesome. It's such a unique style. Seeing it come to life is awesome. Thank you for the wicked cool video.
frank miller is such a revolutionary comic book artist. i really like ur videos, they're very chill yet informative and they're nice to both watch as a standalone or put in the background :)
I fell IN LOVE with this film when it came out. Nothing like this was out there. Gorgeous
I really have huge respect for those who created a whole new reality on their sets and then filmed it to tell a story, but it's so fascinating to peek inside the creation of a movie using the green screen so much... Really interesting video, thank you!
Seeing this movie at the theater back in the day was a real treat. I have no idea why they waited so long for part 2. Too many years passed, and nobody cared anymore. Missed opportunity.
They did the Spirit their own IP and that flopped. Also Sin City 2 was a downgrade and they didnt follow the comics most of the time.
to your point, I really like this movie (the first one) and yet I totally forgot there was a sequel I haven't seen until your comment reminded me. ME: "There was a sequel?" (Comes back to me.) ME: "Oh yeah, I really wanted to see that when it came out and then I forgot it existed."
fwiw I did the same thing with Zombieland's sequel
Best KZhead vid I've seen on the topic. Congrats.
:)
Another thing I think makes this movie work is the actors taking it seriously enough to fully commit to the heightened reality with the intensity of their performances. In many ways this movie (like the comic book it's based on) is an exaggerated version of the old film noirs-which themselves were crafted towards evoking emotions over pure intellectual reflection-except the emotional cues are distilled even further, removing even more of the mundane substrate to reveal the vital essence of emotional stimuli. For the effect to be successful, the viewers must open themselves to it and to make them comfortable with such a direct connection every aspect of the film needs to reflect the premise. If the performances of the cast were not suitably surreal it would have been jarring and I think it would have badly hurt the movie.
It turns out when artists have the time and budget to fully realize a vision, any tool in their toolbox can be used well.
It's kinda similar to the live action one piece. The creator was heavily involved and actually created a great live action anime adaptation.
One-piece ain't to masterpiece but it's very entertaining and earnest. It looks like the crew cared about what they were making
@@whwhywhywhywhywhywhy facts
I had never read the manga or watched the anime but compared to other adaptations I have to say the passion really stood out. I really enjoyed it
who tf watches that shit...
Why does everything have to be anime to you people?
such a fantastic movie. great job. it is just so stylistically spot on. immersive, believable feel to the environment created.
Ur videos are so beautiful man I really wish great things for this channel & u
I don't think I've watched this since I've owned an OLED TV, I'm changing that today. Great video as always!
Keep up this content, such a good watch
I love your use of music in this video
Well complied video sir, I commend your excellent editing and video making skills. Very pleasant to watch.
I think you touched on something that filmmakers should take to heart - this type of shooting works for achieving heightened reality, or surreality, but often not for realism.
Dude I love your breakdowns and I just wanna rewarch Sin City everytime you do a video talking about it 😊
I love it and its quite timeless. I should rewatch these films
Who is Danny Boyd? ;) This has to be one of the top five KZhead channels on filmmaking. Great writing and great narration. This guy is a pro.
I'm taking a master's in English, and your channel has actually helped in making me consider whether I want to write my thesis on adaptation. The problem is obviously that I know you have to be very certain before you start writing a thesis about something you're a fan of, because by the end you may end up hating it.
Write it on "Adaptation"
My best friend and I saw this at the Fox Theater in Atlanta. Seeing this in a 75 year old "movie palace" with such history made this even more special.
Great video! Loved it. The comparison shots between green screen and finished film are fascinating. Is there a resource for all the original shots somewhere...?
More like this, please! Both the movie and the review...
What a great covearge of a great-great topic. Thanx a lot
Again, your side-by-side shot for shot really highlights the masterpiece that is this movie.
Showing how this is done was so well explained…..now I have to watch it again(for the 10th time😊
This was so fascinating. I was so immersed when I first watched Sin City I never wondered about how they did it. And that shows what a masterpiece it was.
One of my favorite comics and one of my favorite movies. Another good cinematic representations of a comic was The Crow. Alex Proyas did a really good job of using shadows and framing to make the visuals fit the gritty, mean feel of the books.
This is so nostalgic to the 2000's for me now. Our cinematic heritage.
Awesome breakdown!! Thank you for this!
Thank you checking it out!
Watchmen is another great example, For those of us that read the comic book it translated perfectly.
keep doing your thing. leading this critical area atm x
This is such a great breakdown! It seems like this approach makes some things so much easier and cheaper for specific types of films. It obviously won't be right for everything, but are there other films that have used this approach since Sin City?
I haven't watched Sin City in so long, and now I need to watch it again. I had no idea how much green screen was used. Very impressive for the time period.