The Golden Order is the most dominant philosophy in the Lands Between, yet it rests upon crumbling foundations. Goldmask, the most loyal to its ideals labours to uncover the truth of its failings and remake it to bring forth the Age of Perfect Order.
Editor: Creators Studio - creatorsstudio.co.uk/
Intro: 0:00
The Birth of the Golden Order: 2:19
Fundamentalism: 15:28
Those Who Live in Death: 28:08
Goldmask: 36:41
The Perfect Order: 48:20
This is an extremely expansive video that not only looks at the Goldmask and the Golden Order but also the following subjects: Radagon, Marika, The Crucible, Law of Regression, Causality, Those who live in death, D Golden Order Hunter, Fundamentalism, The Age of Perfect Order, Brother Corhyn, The Erdtree, The Elden Ring, Runes, Mending Runes and More!
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CREDITS AND LINKS
Big Thanks to Last Protagonist for his fantastic videos that influenced some foundational ideas in this video: / lastprotagonist
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Images used from Fextralife Wiki: eldenring.wiki.fextralife.com...
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Soundtrack is Demon's Souls, Dark Souls, Sekiro and Elden Ring
I do not own the rights to Elden Ring, all rights to FromSoftware
#eldenring #goldmask #radagon
Thanks for watching guys! Remember to subscribe for more Elden Ring lore. Let me know your thoughts on the Golden Order below!
Fatherless take right here.
Knowing that Elden Ring seems to have an obsession with duality (characters with two names, alter egos, double entendres, etc.), Melina's dialogue in the cutscene where she and Torrent find the player's body always struck me as kind of strange. The quote is, "One of his/her kind is sure to seek the Elden Ring. ...Even if it does violate the Golden Order..." This just seems like odd wording to me. It's obvious that the word order in Golden Order is meant to have multiple meanings; a group of likeminded individuals devoted to serving Marika and the Golden Lineage (like an order of knights), and a representation of the Greater Will's control (which it calls order), but there seems to be evidence to suggest that it also refers to a _command_ given to its adherents (as in being ordered by one superior). I find it interesting that adherents don't say, "I am a member of the Golden Order", but rather, "I serve the Golden Order", which seems to imply that they carry out this command. This might explain why the Golden Order is less about order through enforcing peace, but more about upholding a narrative that has been imposed on the denizens of the Lands Between.
The Goldmask ending was the first one that I did and I don't feel the same way about GM. To me, the Golden Order represents a utopian view; the conceit that you can plan out the entire future of the world according to some formulaic plan. GM is actually the biggest zealot of them all. If you like your memes then he's the 'Real Golden Orderism has never been tried' person. He can see the flaws better than anyone but he wants to give it one more roll of the dice. The removal of the Rune of Death is a perfect example of the Law of Unforseen Consequences. 'Hey, guys. Imagine if nobody ever died. Wouldn't that be great!?' Now imagine if a God, no better than men, had that thought. Look how that ends up panning out. Then Marika tries to tap out of being God (shattering the ring is a suicide attempt IMO because she IS the ring, in a way, but that's another discussion) and ends up being pinned up inside the Erdtree to keep her from doing any more damage. She's a totalitarian. Why would she be chosen by an outer God that embodies a completely totalitarian view of imposing a single order on all of existence? Also, I'm not convinced that Corhyn even has the slightest clue what GM is on about, anyway. As far as the visions of the burning of the Erdtree go, while the literal burning of the Erdtree is involved in progressing, only a couple of endings involve destroying the thing (it seems as if some are fighting OVER the Erdtree rather than against it in some cases). I believe that the fire in the prophecy represents conflict; the inevitable conflict that will result from attempting to impose a single order on to all of existence. The prophet character starts with a flame spell. The adherents to the Golden Order possess the means of its destruction and they are cast out like lepers and marked out for alienation. People like D just embrace this flaw and get stuck in to the conflict with gusto. He'd be just at home with The Recusants or Mohg in another life, truth be told. Godfrey is that on fucking steroids. This is what Goldmask and the perfection of the Golden Order mean. That golden halo around the ring is the rebuffal of falibillity. The purging of dissent. No more questions; no more deviation; no more schisms; no more free will. The world that is created after that is no more inviting than the Chaos ending. We can all wax on the subject but I'll give the final word to Bruno kzhead.info/sun/n9ijeZd6j314mpE/bejne.html
@@thevo4100 my take is that fire represents *change* or a departure from how things are, which the GO abhors. There’s like ten different types of flame in the lore and all are linked to an enemy of the GO. I agree that Goldmask’s ideology is basically “more fascism”; the flaw he identifies is Marika finding the cosmic cheat code that let her regain free will.
the oneness concept sounds very similar to the flame of chaos
Without context, the image of Goldmask T-posing into nothingness while Corhyn kneels in abject despair is absolutely fucking hilarious. 10/10 video Smough. This man has not missed once. Incredible.
Thank you Lloyd, really really please you enjoyed it
@@SmoughTown It makes me happy to see you always interacting with your community! But. When dragons 👀
@@TrueHylianKnight It's on my list!
@@SmoughTown LET'S FUCKING GOOOOO
Wordless T-Posing to assert Dominance actually saved the world, who would've guessed.
When we use the mending rune of perfect order everyone eternally t-poses
THE POWER
How else do we assert dominance over all other orders?
@@jamesnorman9160 don't let e sports judges here you talk like that... tea baggings out now don't want them coming after another meme lol
Perfectly balanced as all things should be
He knows its a video game so he knows every one is t posing before the player spawns
Goldmask is such a different Character to most Souls-Born Archetypes. He keeps his sanity right till the end, he does not try to betray us, and he generally strifes towards a goal that is both Lawful and Good. A wonderful addition to the story. So often you see characters getting obsessed or turning Evil once they see their world image shattered.
Yeah, he just saw the entire Order take an L and said “Huh. How can I fix this?” and then he did it
@@hoarder1975 Gigachad Goldmask
Word it’s just too bad that he never talks
It helps that he was willing to accept that there was a problem. So when his worldview is shattered it’s more like “THAT’S the problem” instead of “OH GOD, EVERYTHING I THOUGHT WAS TRUE WAS A LIE!?!?!?! WHAT NOW?????!!!!!”
@uNnHkP8mza Considering the events that take place he couldn't really afford to take time to talk or risk losing his place in his calculations. The guy was figuring out the mathematical rules of the world without any sort of abacus or paper, just his mind and body as his tools. I wonder if his posing was actually a form of notation of his own design, to keep his calculations 'recorded' as he went. Hence the minute but complex adjustments of his fingers.
Golden Chad Mask: Comes to the lands. Discovers that the GODS were wrong Fix it T poses Dies without saying anything ever.
I mean, yeah, pretty much...
refuses to elaborate
The virgin Corhyn vs. the Chad GoldMask.
@@lucaswilliams3732 The Virgin Corhyn: "Noooooooooooooooo! You can't just criticize the Golden Order, it's perfect as it is!!!!" The Ever Chad Goldmask: "..."
As all things should be
The idea of a man essentially creating the perfect way of life, an unending paradise from pure mathematics is giving me an existential crisis. Thank you for telling his story so beautifully.
Thanks Dylan. Was my pleasure
I'm not a religious exper but I love doing research about them now university is taking much of my time . If I remember right the Jewish God created the world with mathematics but not sure 100percent But if so the idea is not that farfetch
Some people claim that just the right use of mathematics can also help them to make predictions about the future. Do with that knowledge what you will.
@@GrimReaver the universe is basically made just by mathematics and rules even the things that break our own established laws of physics like black holes and time itself maybe one day we will be able to comprehend such knowledge
@@Kazuhira2249Only mathematics isn't the right choice, we also need a lot of logic and knowledge to understand what is actually happening around us and how things are made.
I had no idea Goldmask gasps when you tell him Radagon is Marika, amazing detail. Nice catch
This man is just causally pumping out an hour worth of content a week and each video is of incredible quality. Man is top of the top in terms of Elden Ring lore.
Don't make me cry Bob
@@SmoughTown "aaaand Sir Gwideon UwUnir, the all loving"
he talks slow asf and repeats reddit posts and definitions chill bruh
@@quantumnutblast9988 Why exactly did you feel the need to reply to this again? Lol
SmoughTown is good at bringing genuine insight as opposed to just compiling scattered lore bits in a watchable format
Rogier is such a cool character. Can handle himself in a fight, a scholar and wise. He also can trace ranni through the black knife fingerprint. Can see the flaws in the order, and wants to save those who live in death. It's sad that we can't get him Rannis cursemark before he dies he could have achieve something great.
I wonder what he would offer as advice in terms of the Goldmask vs Fia endings if you get both runes.
@@geordiejones5618 I think all are half measures and ranni has the only real solution to all this from what I have understood . . . Either that or the dung eater ending because it’s funny and the only thing these horrible people aside from dog pope deserve.
@@geordiejones5618 I think Rogier will say just combine EM ilke when the great houses of the Erdtree and the Moon were joined. Fascinating, isn't it? That the Golden Order was pliable enough to absorb practices that contradicted itself in the past. -Sorcerer Rogier
And has the best drip.
You realize Fia has just been brainwashing him and then zombifies him when his usefulness has ended, right?
Dungeater: Gets high on feces to curse everyone Fia: Molests corpses to bring back natural death Goldmask: T-poses to correct gods mistake Truly ever brilliant and the most enlightened soul in the lands between.
T-pose = "religion is cringe; embrace the dominance of math"
@@blugger atheism preaching is cringe af dude.
@@curts7801 it's no atheism, it's *math*
@@blugger Damn that's crazy. Let me call James Cameron to dive back into the Mariana trench, so he can find out who tf asked.
@@Snoike and without ever saying a word..just,act and causality,ever brilliant math. I'm sure there is similiar concept in nordic mythology :)
The fact that Maliketh was the only one who could deliver Destined Death gives him a Grim Reaper vibe, I love it.
hes definitely got to be my second favorite behind godfrey both dudes are just absolute alphas
@@popmmog-7 Rick, Soldier of God would like to have a word
@@linkholder i cant wait for a mod to make soldier of godrick a ridiculous and cinematic fight
@@popmmog-7 they’re gods and the best compliment people give them is “alpha male” lmao
Every pantheon needs its god of death
"Tainting its truth" is an extremely telling phrase when it comes to the Golden Order. The truth is the truth. It cannot be tainted because it is absolute. At least in the inflexible way the Golden Order believes truth to exist. A belief can be tainted, though. That is what the Hunters find intolerable.
Well said
That is the thing. This is a world and order built on such ideas. Corrupt the idea and the very real physical world follows suit. The realm of ideal shapes is intrinsically part of the impure world of the living. So not only can you corrupt the truth, this will change reality to suit this action.
@@jacobfreeman5444 Then burn it all away. To try again with a clean slate... ... ... Inevitably, someone or something will meet this Fate.
@@absolstoryoffiction6615 Isn't that literally the Lord of Chaos ending? Just melt it all away...
@@jacobfreeman5444 Pretty much, yes... In simplicity but there's nuance with that ending. You destroyed the Elden Ring, only leaving Destined Death behind. You didn't reset the Elden Ring.
Goldmask's finger movements are reminiscent of the Two Fingers relaying messages from the Greater Will, and I see Brother Corhyn as Goldmask's finger reader. I think he might be communicating with the Greater Will itself. We even see that at one point his finger goes still and stops moving (much to Corhyn's despair), just like the Two Fingers at the Roundtable Hold do when they're waiting to hear back from the GW. It seems too similar to be a coincidence to me, that this idea of finger movements relaying information about the Golden Order is mirrored so closely between the Two Fingers and Goldmask.
Goldmask basically being a human Two Fingers communing with the Greater Will directly seems so obvious to me that I'm surprised he didn't mention it
It's an interesting parallel but it makes no sense for Goldmask to actually be communicating with the greater will, he only stops moving because he gets stuck on a problem and resumes once you give him the answer, while the two fingers stop moving because communication with the greater will takes a really long time.
@@Rusty_Spy Why the fingers then?
I think you have the right if it. Especially as it would make sense for the Greater Will to be seeking a way to mend the Elden Ring. Perhaps they’ve been unable to do so this whole time because they don’t realize Marika isn’t whole, and it’s only when they realize Radagon is Marika that they’re able to “solve” the equation and create a fix for the Elden Ring. I think that’s why Radagon came to be in the first place. I haven’t finished the game yet or watched others’ theories on this, so I could be way off on this, but it seems to me that at some point after establishing the Golden Order, Marika was feeling torn about the Greater Will. It seems reasonable to me that she would cast aside the part of herself that was blindly loyal to the GO and GW in order to make her own plans, and that this became Radagon who we know is a GO fundamentalist. Obviously she wouldn’t want the GW to know she’d done this, and it’s possible even Radagon himself didn’t know. Is that way off base? Could be I’m missing some important puzzle pieces.
@@HeartlandHunny I don't think the Greater Will wants to mend the Elden Ring. It's said that the GW has left the Lands between and only the Elden Beast remains as a vassal of its will. The Elden Beast at least knows Radagon is Marika since the Shattering because it sealed them both as one body. And the Elden Beast doesn't seem to want the Elden Ring mended in the first place since it blocks our way with thorns, makes Radagon fight us and then fights us itself to prevent that from happening. Marika is the one who guides us to burn the Erdtree and mend the Elden Ring. I think Goldmask's goals are more in line with Marika's, since like her he is in favour of critically analysing the Golden Order philosophy to improve it (one of Melina's dialogues says Marika declared her intent to search the depths of the Golden Order, believing that the time for blind faith was past them). The adherents of the Golden Order themselves such as the Finger Reader Crones seem distinctly more loyal to the Greater Will (whom they commune with through the Fingers), than Marika herself.
Goldmask T-posing while Corhyn cowers in fear is more than just a meme, as Goldmask poses as a T for Truth, whereas those like Corhyn choose to remain blind and faithful when faced with that which shatters their view of Order.
That's also implied in Corhyns blindfold too :)
I want the ending where gold mask and miquella create an order of unnaloyed gold. Settled by genuine intellectual perfection from gold mask, and the bewitching empathy and personality of miquella
Well, there are only endings associated with the Tarnished who see Grace - only those who see Grace have any viable vision to be Elden Lord. Unalloyed Gold is very different than Golden Order Fundamentalism - it's an alternative to the concept of order, order itself being considered an impurity.
@@monsieurdorgat6864 I....don't think so. The Order Of Unalloyed Gold is similar to the Golden Order, with the exception of only two aspects: 1. It accepts members of all forms and races, including those rejected by the Golden Order. 2. More importantly, it does not acknowledge the authority of the Outer Gods, and has created tools specifically made to ward off their influence. The Order is pure in that it is untouched by the biases of outsiders,or the choices of the Outer Gods. The Outer Gods, including the Greater Will, are not immune to bias, as their opposition of each other leads to them attempting to suppress each other and other forms of power at all costs. Case in point, the Greater Will using the Golden Order to wipe out the Fire Giants, oppress the Crucible, trap the Eternal Cities who wished for an Age of Night, etc. If Order itself is an impurity, than chaos is the only option, and we don't exactly see the Haligtree filled with Frenzied Flame converts. The Order of Unalloyed Gold is Order purely for Order's sake. It does not care for the divisions, allegiances and deities of any faction, instead seeking to create a stable Order using the tools it has. Nothing more. Nothing less. Order's true purpose is to provide sentient beings with rhythm, function, safety and a cause to live for. That is the meaning behind seeking it. And that is what Unalloyed Gold seeks.
@@alyseleem2692It's not the *order* of Unalloyed Gold, it's just Unalloyed Gold. You trying to impose a false dichotomy of "it's either order or chaos" is the point. The entire dichotomy is one set up by Outer Gods, and are philosophies that do not serve the people of that material world. Miquella is calling out philosophical bullshit. He's taking the practical, scientific route. It's not the Order of Unalloyed Gold, or the Chaos of Unalloyed Gold - it's just gold. Unalloyed Gold isn't as shiny (unalloyed gold is dull in color and sheen), but it's pure and honest. In Miquella's philosophy, there's no need to persecute anyone for any abstract principle. The only thing that matters is the blunt, obviously reality in your face. After tons of abstract philosophizing, he decided simple and clean is best.
@@monsieurdorgat6864 Do you know what the basis of Order is? True Order, in lieu of the studies of Fundamentalism, is a mathematical problem governed by two laws: The Law of Regression, and the Law of Causality. Both said Laws apply, quite literally, to everything, and are universally true for nearly all beings, though in what form is the question which is pondered by Fundamentalism. In addition to this, an Order is used to refer to the state or manner of Law in any specific Age, as well as the faction behind it. It includes a God, a Lord, and all that follows. Case in point, the Golden Order, and before it, the Order of Dragons. And yes, it is an Order. The aim of Unalloyed Gold is to instate Miquella as a God, but without the help or influence of Outer Gods, and create a world of true equality, unity and Order. And yes, the philosophical and literal alternative to Order is Chaos, as the lack of Order allows other forces to stake their own domain, and leaves those without it without law or guidance, thus leading to chaos and disruption. Order is ,simply put, an arrangement that allows things to exist coherently in a manner understandable to sentient beings, giving way to meaning. That is why every ending counts as an Order, with the exception of the Frenzied Flame, because whether good or bad, they all serve to define existence in specific terms,thus counting as Order. Order does not require oppression or conflict. The only reason the Golden Order required it is it's nature as a flawed Order, dictated by outside forces, unsustainable without the existence of both outside help and a common enemy, thus leading to prejudice, suffering, war and injustice. What Lord Miquella was attempting to create was an Order that was self-sustaining, just and true to itself. A flawless Order. Gold in the Golden Order is a part and parcel of it's sacraments, incantations and imagery, as well as the greatest symbol of it's philosophy. It is the symbol of Order. But Gold, under the Erdtree, is strong, but impure, and such impurity is what makes it imperfect and, ultimately ,harmful. That I why one must seek Purity. That is why one must seek Unalloyed Gold.
@@alyseleem2692 I just need to establish that the game literally says that Miquella *abandoned Golden Order Fundamentalism* - he didn't perfect it, or alter it, or purify it: *he abandoned it* . This is what makes Miquella's goals different from Goldmask's goals, and why Miquella ceased to make incantations after he abandons Fundamentalism and instead focuses himself on craft and alchemy, making unalloyed gold items rather rather than using the powers of outer gods in the forms of sorceries and incantations. So Goldmask is the one who seeks to perfect the Golden Order by segregating its philosophies from gods like Marika/Radagon, and he also understands that prejudice isn't necessary or sustainable within order, and entirely possible to structure within the Elden Ring if corrected. But Miquella's goal is different. Unalloyed Gold is a physical philosophy, where Goldmask (and you) are still relying on the philosophy of phenomenology, still obsessed with classifying things arbitrarily into labeled dichotomies you yourself arbrarily create. For example, Goldmask looks upon Misbegotten and the Living Dead as integrable into a philosophy of Order, saying all differences have their place. Miquella, on the other hand, doesn't subscribe to the notion of saying that having horns, wings, etc. would make you "ordered" or "chaotic" - they're just horns and wings. There's nothing more to understand. Goldmask seeks to integrate all things within a concept of Order, where Miquella seeks to eschew the concept entirely and seek objectivity, and sees Order as always a subjective label.
Telling Goldmask the truth is one of the most oddly satisfying moments in Elden Ring. With that gasp, you hear the pieces finally connect in his mind.
Based on the visuals, I would say that the Mending Rune of the Fell Curse (Dungeaters) corrupts the existing Elden Ring - the lines that are already drawn become infected. The Mending Rune of the Death-Prince adds on to the Elden Ring - a new circle appears (the hallowbrand, which represents the Rune of Death that Marika split off), and is placed noticeably at the navel which suggests fertility and the cycle of life and death. The Mending Rune of Perfect Order encircles the Elden Ring, protecting its existing state and preventing it from fracturing again.
The Mending Rune of the Death Prince actually encircles the rune of Destined Death, returned to the Elden Ring after you Defeat Maliketh. In this way it enforces Life in Death as one of the parts of Elden Ring's fundamental rules of life.
CMIIW but the hallowbrand is not the rune of death. the rune of death is the red vertical line with downward arc on top of it (the opposite of marika's upward arc rune) we see after defeating maliketh which then released to the lands between. that's when the rune of death returned into the elden ring. the hallowbrand is godwyn's (prince of death) rune, added to the elden ring if we choose to mend the elden ring with it.
I think it also prevents the rune of death from being removed again too.
The rune of the death prince is different from destined death
@JoeyJoJo Shabbadoo The rune of death doesn't become part of the elden ring after you kill Malikith, it's just completely free to go wherever
It may be a hot take, but I'm of the opinion that both Goldmask's and Ranni's objective is the same: Make the Elden Ring impossible to be influenced in any way. Goldmask does it by hacking into the mainframe and injecting his firewall into the Elden Ring, while Ranni does it by bringing the Elden Ring along on her eternal honeymoon in space with her husband/wife.
Wow you’re good
Well, not quiet. Goldmask leaves it at the mercy of the god who may or may not be at fault for everything that has happened, whilst ranni tells all the lovecraft rejects to fuck right off, its her time to be demiurge.
I'm a little concerned that gold mask's solution is to remove the very concept of free will from the elden ring though 😅
@@andrewjazdzyk1215 I will never understand how someone can come to the conclusion that Goldmask wants to remove free will for the common people. He doesn't want to remove free will; he wants to prevent _gods_ from having free will. The gods should be fundamental solid foundations that are unchanging and stable, not prone to emotional instability or bias. _That_ is what Goldmask takes issue with, not humans being humans; he takes issue with _gods_ being humans.
I would say they are opposite approaches to a similar goal, remove the corrupt deities. Ranni wants to remove them by getting rid of the totalitarian gods. Goldmask wants a perfect god.
Hearing you describe regression like that made me realize that the Three Fingers and the Frenzied Flame essentially want the same thing, but cranked up to apocalyptic levels by melting everything down into one primordial sludge.
Exactly. Which make so much sense considering the 3 Fingers and the 2 Fingers (I.E. Frenzied Flame and Greater Will) used to be a part of one whole. The One Great, referenced by Hyetta. Like you said, both are trying to similar things through very different methods. Become "One" whether through chaos/primordial sludgification or Order in the way of systemic control.
@@ATC43 that's actually incorrect. Hyetta is wrong.
@wwrr rrr ... I'm not exactly sure what this is supposed to mean.. but okay I guess?
@@vyor8837 one very logical way to prove this is just by the fact that the two fingers and the three fingers together form 5 fingers: a complete hand
@@Paulito-ym4qc except that the two fingers are made of the middle and ring fingers and the three fingers have a thumb, middle finger, and pinky. It wouldn't make a complete hand.
I like the theory that Radagon embodied "Regression" and Marika embodied "Causality". This is displayed in earnest when Marika shatters the ring (representing the cause and effect of her son dying) and Radagon trying to repair it (to bring it back to it's former state)
Radagon and Marika really captures the Law of Duality it's beautiful
"shrivelled zombie like shells with grey skin, they've lived far too long without death" They're just like me
I think the reason for Marika's behavior could have to do with the fact that she was not a god but Uplifted to godhood and was unable to part with the thoughts and behaviors of mortality. Though as the two fingers state, she was indeed the best choice, but the position took it's toll upon her.
Seemingly the best choice looks to be willingness to serve the greater will. Why were the tarnished raised? Most of them would sell their own organs to be able to become Elden Lord. Why was it that some were chosen and others discarded? For many, like the Omens, it was something fundamentally wrong with the person's ability to recieve and be recieved by the Erdtree. They could not align with the way the Greater will would like to do things. Until the Greater Will seemingly changes his mind and rechooses everyone, excluding the Albinaurics at least, from grace. The fact that Morgott is chosen speaks volumes for the state the order of grace is in, not only Morgott's worthiness.
There's a really interesting duality in ranni and goldmask's endings. Ranni isolates the lands between from the outer gods, and goldmask isolates them from vassal gods. and of course there''s the imagery of the night and stars vs the sun imagery of goldmask, a dichotomy mirrored by the carians conflict with the golden order.
There's a really strong theme of order Vs freedom. Goldmask solution, encasing the elden ring, bear a strong resemblance with the concept of an isolated system. A system which doesn't exchange matter or energy. Where everything can be KNOWN. Immune to externalities. The perfect system to express as a mathematical equation. And in doing so doomed to become "static". While Ranni is the opposite, willing to sacrifice whatever order and certainty left in exchange for her "journey"
Does Ranni really isolate them from the outer gods? I thought the Dark Moon was an outer god.
@@TheSm1thersthe dark moon is seemingly a form of divination, which is supposed to draw the stars to the Lands Between. By this, people would search out their destiny, not necessarily MAKE it, and be lead by an invisible hand rather than a literal hand.
@@xavierthomas5835 I don't think that's all it is. It's clearly a supernatural entity of some sorts, and that Ranni can essentially take the place or Marika strongly suggests it being an outer god imo. I think you're probably right about the last sentencd tho.
@TheSm1thers Well, we notice that the black moon was so that the Nox could draw the Lord of Night. Seeing as how not much is known about what the dark moon is, I reason that it is essentially a replacement made, or found, by ranni. Why would the Nox choose to work with a chosen one of their sworn enemy unless she had something significant to offer? That, however, is pure conjecture, so take it with a grain of salt. Secondly, I don't particularly know of any evidence that suggest the dark moon was sentient or not, unless you have a supply. Genuine question, no ill intent, I've simply remembered certain parts and not others of prior videos.
Love vaatis stuff to bits, but man you really do keep elden rings lore alive imo. So nice to have consistent and long form lore discussions, and even better than that, ones that don’t just assume all of what you’re saying is fact, but invite actual discussion among the community. Love your stuff pls keep it up.
Thanks Blake
Yeah I don't think vatti is concentrating on Elden ring cause he did about may e 4 video or 4 in total
Compared to Smough, Vaati is just an item description reader with a nice voice
I'm going to be polite and say that Elden Ring lore might not have appealed to Vaati as much as dark souls. I like Elden Ring, but I like the darker, more desperate feel of Dark souls series.
@@adsasfasfasfsddddddd thx for polite answer nows dats when somebody have a different idea or opinion we automatically get out the gun and diss record
From the start I've seen the Lands Between as locked in stasis by the Golden Order. Perfect order is the absence of movement, void of life. The absence of Death removed the potential of growth from the Lands Between creating a perversion of life. Perhaps that realization led Marika to act against it. It is safe to say that stagnation from within ultimately caused corruption and destruction in the Golden Lineage. The tighter you try to hold onto something, the more viciously you crush it in your hands. Perhaps it's no wonder the Fingers are the material representatives of the Golden Order.
Well yeah, even the default standard ending where you repare the elden ring normally says that all your basically doing is proping up a stagnant order while goldmasks ending is a whole new golden age. Ranni ending is best though, cut the world off entirely from the greater will and outer gods in general so that mortals are responsible for their own destiny.
Marika is the one who removed death from the ring to begin with though no?
@@theresaplatypuscontrolling5464 yeah, like they said, Marika acted against the golden order
That stagnation is the reason for the incursion of rot too, as well as the spread of deathblight, frenzy, and the formless mother for that matter, given the unending rivers of blood to come from the eternal.
@@theresaplatypuscontrolling5464 Marika had Maliketh seal Destined Death because her most unfavorite child, the Gloam-Eyed Queen, went around murdering demigods with her Godskin army. And the Gloam-Eyed Queen was defeated, the Rune of Death was sealed away by Maliketh, the Godskins lost their power to commit deicide. The lore doesn't specifically say the Gloam-Eyed Queen is dead, but it's likely that she was sundered in some way. There's a lot of hints that the snow witch (Ranni's teacher) and Melina are her present incarnations.
The beautifully tragic irony is that all factions abide by the laws of causality and regression. The many souls combine into one in Rykard, the grafted, the gargoyles, the death bird's rancor pits, the godskins, the graven stars, the living jars, even the warmth accumulated by Fia, etc. Each faction mirrors the others in their form, but they're condemned to eternal strife because the content of the belief is different. Word to the wise!
I was so confused as to why every humanoid enemy was a zombie. I don’t know why it never occurred to me that it was because the rune of death was sealed away and they were actually undead.
I don't think they're undead, just unable to die. Their minds and bodies are atrophied, and they've gone mad. You can see how desperate they are for death in the ruins under Agheel. Though, there is contradicting evidence in Agheel's Flame saying, "The dead gazed at the skies over the lakes of Limgrave, praying that the dragon's flames would burn them to ash." I guess I don't really know, it all seems pretty vague.
You ever see those slow moving blobs on the ground?!? Those poor tortured souls were once human but can't die! and those spikes they stick you with??? Bones!
The opening cinematic states the Greater Will has abandoned the Lands Between. So it’s basically just Elden Beast vs Marika
Something that people often gloss over when talking about the state of the Lands Between. It abandoned when the demigods started warring against one another, and we have evidence that it's absent. Most importantly, the Two Fingers haven't the slightest clue what is going on. Seriously, they're a lost cause. Early in the game they make it out as if the Greater Will granted grace back to the Tarnished in order to kill the demigods, but we know that to be a complete lie as it is confirmed that it was Marika who granted us grace again. Then they spur us to grab 2 great runes and seek the Elden Throne in order to become the Elden Lord. Except, when we finally get there and defeat Morgott, it's blocked off. This revelation shocked them enough to "fuck off" and seek communion with GW for a supposed 1.000 years per Enia. Why would the Two Fingers, envoys to the Greater Will, not know it was barred off? Then finally, we have Gideon Ofnir who in my opinion pretty much just cements the fact GW is gone with the following line: "Go, if you would. Take no heed of "cardinal sin". "The Two Fingers lost their purpose a long, long time ago." The Two Fingers purpose was to be the envoys to the Greater Will.
“Erm, Goldmask’s ending is the worst because the Greater Will has more control” - 🤓 “A war that led to abandonment by the Greater Will” - 💪😎
@@Razhork The two fingers didn't react to the Erdtree being barred off because the only person who tried to enter before us was Morgott, and the Fingers tell us that the Greater Will abandoned the demigods specifically.
@@filippogrimaldi7228 You're not processing the actual implication here. The Two Fingers are envoys to the Greater Will. They exist in the Lands Between to directly represent the Greater Will and commune through the Finger Readers. Except, the Two Fingers haven't been communing with the Greater Will, because it's long since left. Why would the Two Finger of all "people" not know that the Erdtree is barred off? If anyone across the Lands Between should know about this, it should be the Two Fingers, no questions asked.
It abandoned the Demigods after the Shattering due to none of them being worthy vessels to bring about a meaningful Age. Melania's scarlet rot ravaged Caelid. Radahn was left a monster of his former self. Ranni cast away her Empyrean Flesh. Miquella was spirited away by Mogh, who wished to create a dynasty that revolved around his Blood. Morgott was never a "proper" successor due to a heritage he had no say in and wallows in self-hatred for. Godrick is a snivelling coward whose practice of grafting made him more reviled than he already was. Praetor Rykard spoke blasphemies against the Erdtree and essentially became Serpent-Satan. Godwyn's soul died leaving his 'living' body behind which corrupts the Erdtree with Deathroot. In short, that's why the Tarnished are here. They are the only entities left from the Golden Order who are able to achieve and advance their own demi-godhood through repairing the Elden Ring
God, this whole video is amazing. The parallels between the golden order and religious fundamentalism irl is staggering. Orders subsuming the practices of other orders, heretics whos existance expose flaws being demonized and hunted, people from the highest echelons to the lowest becoming doubtful, etc etc. Fromsoft really knocked it out of the park per usual. * Also, i like how goldmask and miquella's ideas intersect. Miquella seeks to create a new order seperate from the gods, a golden order without alloying. Goldmask seeks to repair the golden order, by removing the alloyed metal, the gods.
I like the consistencies between Miquella and Goldmask but I think there are some fundamental differences. Miquella's intention was to create a cult of personality around himself. I think he is the most heroic demi-god, but there's always issues with cults of personality and how they can become fanatical (see Dune) as well as consolidating all the power under one person, which still has the potential for corruption due to the flaws of the gods as Goldmask points out. Whereas Goldmask was someone who basically transcended an ego and worked in a world of pure philosophy and mathematics. I think of him very much as a pure mathematician, only wanting to prove the flaws of a formal system and bring consistency to it but wanting no power himself.
The Golden Mask quest line was my first play trough in Elden Ring. I enjoyed the mystery and the sweet outfit I got as a reward 🤩
I think something that could have been worth looking into is Goldmask himself. He doesn't appear to be an ordinary Tarnished by any means, looking most similar to the Onyx or Alabaster Lords (even seems to have the folded pointed ears behind his mask), or perhaps the strange enlongated forms of the Commoners (regardless, different than all other Tarnished we are faced with.) This brings up interesting questions of both the definitions of Tarnished and his otherwordly behavior, if he may in fact be a being originating of another world. Additionally, i think it worthy of note that when viewing Goldmask as a player phantom in someone else's world, he has wildly different poses, including either kneeling on the ground in his first position or clutching his head violently while stood before the Erdtree
Do you have a source for that last part?
You're the first person I've seen to quote Kreia. She is such a fascinating character in a wonderful game no one really talks about and that makes me sad. Thanks for the great content.
For a while I had a hard time understanding what Goldmask was going after, but now it does seem like a rather interesting choice. Despite all that has happened, Goldmask remains a man of the faith so to speak, and firmly believes the Greater Will's design will work if the elements tampering with it were taken out of the equation --- in this case, Marika messing with the Elden Ring, and thus altering it from what the Greater Will had in mind for the world, for seemingly her own self-interest. It has some echoes of the Protestant Reformation that Christianity went through in medieval times, and Martin Luther's belief that the Catholic Church and Papacy were flawed human institutions bound to screw up just like everyone else, and were ultimately unnecessary for one to make a personal connection with the ol' sky daddy. To compare to another ending, in a way it's like Ranni and Goldmask looked at the same issue, and came to opposite conclusions on the root cause. Ranni thinks God is the problem, meanwhile Goldmask thinks people are the problem.
Doesnt gold mask wanna remove the gods from the equation? Or at least remove as much tampering as possible?
@@iamMildlyUpsetWithMostOfYouTub he wants to remove the lesser gods which are basiquelly people and create a new system that would work directly under the great will who is an outer god. Ranni on the other hand believe that the greater will itself is the problem and that the people should not be relying on gods at all, instead finding their own place in this dark and dangerous cosmos.
I do find that what's interesting is that both ranni and goldmask's endings are both essentially "good" endings with one pursuing freedom and the other pursuing idealism and coming to their best possible conclusions for everyone.
@@voltaalta1307 I think most endings are good from the perspective of the person trying to accomplish them. Rannis wants to break away from the influence of the outer god and let the world make its own path. Goldmask wants to perfect the current system, creating an eternal, harmonious and unchanging one that cannot be meddled with. Fia wanted to embrace those who lives in death within the golden order. Dung eater wants to create a cursed world where all have to share the omens suffering. (probably the least justifiable but dung eater isn't quite sane and bringing justice to the omen is at least a good cause) Shabbiri wants to destroy the world entirely and put an end to all the unessesary suffering.
@@blackbloom8552 True! At the end of the day it's trying to change a world with no direction to have one so there isn't a wrong answer completely although interestingly enough practically everyone who wants you to enact their will has done something heinous (Ranni is the entire reason the Shattering is as bad as it is with killing Godfry, Fia doing a good bit of no-revive killing and being Fia, Dung Eater existing, Shabbiri implied to have given the Nomadic Merchants the worst fate possible etc) but Goldmask who T poses Another one too you could also consider the Shattering Ending from the perspective of the Tarnished trying to make the most out of a new age that, while shattered from its past and now nothing like what anyone pushed you to go for, is yours for the making untampered by anyone else's schemes for a new world.
The best long-form lore in the business, can't wait to watch!
Too kind, I hope you enjoy!
I quite enjoy these videos. I always liked Goldmask, A character who isn't a blind fanatic yet remains loyal to an ideology is something I feel like I haven't seen in other Souls games (though I was never a deep follower of DS2 and DS3 lore).
My favourite hypothesis as to Marika’s “transformation” is that Radagon was created to bear the curse of the Fell God during the war with the fire giants. Along with this he ended up bearing the Greater Will’s influence on Marika - going out on a limb one can wager that Marika was essentially mind-controlled before that point. Her “changing her mind” about the Golden Order is simply the consequence of the Radagon half being the one that ended up with any and all influence of the outer gods on Marika; making her motivation much less ineffable and more human - revenge against her enslavers, for which she was willing to sacrifice her first consort and her children with him. (All of which happened against her will.)
Could be. One of the Great Big Mysteries of Elden Ring is how are Radagon and Marika connected. Was it two becoming One, or a split personality type thing?
@@lemmonboy6459 If my timeline is right, the war with the giants is the earliest mention of Radagon. After that he was just around as a hero of the GO. My best guess is he simply came to be during that fight. Going also by the cutscene in his bossfight, I don’t believe there ever was a separate Radagon running around the Lands - he’s more manifested by the one body they share. That’s why his beliefs are diametrally opposed to Marika’s - he is everything she didn’t retain. (This is also why Ranni isn’t Rennala’s daughter, she’s of Marika and Radagon, raised by Rennala - see the cuckoo symbology, Rennala being given an egg etc. Also while I’m down this rabbit hole, Renna the Snow Witch is just Rennala’s alter ego to practice cold sorceries that would be a step too far at the Academy that already wasn’t 100% comfortable with moon magic. Ranni used the Renna alter ego because she was inspired by her “mother”, who taught her those parts of the Carian traditions kept a secret, doing so. The blurb for the Ranni’s Dark Moon sorcery all but spells this out - where other cold spells say Renna taught them to Ranni, this one says Ranni met the dark moon guided by her mother.)
I always thought that radagon was a manifestation of the greater will meant to control Marika. I didnt think about the greater will outright controlling her mind but when the split between Marika and radagon occurred it makes sense that one half retains that loyalty/control
Love your thoughts! You should release a channel too!
@@DavidVallner Ranni can't be of Marika and Radagon though? That's how Miquella and Malenia came about and we know that their curses are BECAUSE of that fact. There is never any mention of Ranni bearing any similar curse at all.
I like Goldmask a lot. :) it’s super interesting to have a character who doesn’t seek to fight, but seeks to understand. He’s kind of like us; trying to put pieces together, and understand why things aren’t working, what’s the source of conflict.
I wish we could have radagons bolts. Those explosive bolts he throws at us during the boss fight are a lot cooler then just throwing disks at people.
-Sir Gideon who knows mostly everything -Lord Smoughtown the ever knowing :Straight up though man you’re probably the one KZheadr who has done the most in-depth breakdowns and has the most understanding of elden ring. You even retract statements or build upon previous ones with further knowledge and understanding. It’s very impressive work in aspects of time, dedication, and the effort put in to give us such content. I cannot thank you enough for doing such a great series and bringing it to us all.
Thank you William! I will keep doing my best to produce interesting concept. There is still so so much I want to talk about in this game
Honestly wouldn't mind it if in a dlc or patch we get an "age of the crucible" ending where we can restore the world to the state before the Elden ring appears, bringing back this diverse life and making the world chaos, not like the frenzied flame where the world burns to ashes. Everyone just living in a state of Chaos, with the good and bad that entails, no golden order or greater will shall interfere with a group of people and their beliefs and more because they don't exist, but the world may also now be a vacuum of power where outer gods are trying to become the new order and fighting one another through their vassals. I think it would be an interesting ending tbh PS: sorry if this or my replies are a bit wordy, thank you for your time in reading regardless, I just really love this games story and the weird moral gymnastics the ednings bring because there is no definitive good ending this go around Edit: just another PS, but, I love the philosophies presented in Elden ring and the discussions they start up this game is beautiful
When you think about it, the Ranni ending is actually the closest to that in how most people understand it. Removing the elden ring and the influence of gods from the lands between and leaving everything to have a right to exist as it is.
God I wish there was a Crucible ending. I just love the lore that surrounds it, and it makes me dislike that the Frenzied Flame stole the title of Chaos from the Crucible
@@eamonmcandrews7707 true, but that ending, at least in my opinion, is it's own separate age ran by ranni, that's her age of stars and it's speculated that the moon might just be an outer god in it's own right just not a heavy on actually controlling the world. The crucible on the other hand would just be a, this is now free territory ending where there is no definitive ruler or Lord, like snuffing out the flames in dark souls 3, the age of fire ending and there is no Lord of hollows to take up the mantle of the dark lord, the age of humanity is unknown and up to interpretation unlike the Lord of hollows where the age of dark is led by you and the sable church or the age of fire where the same cycle will continue. It's left blank and without rule or purpose, Although Ranni's ending, in my opinion, is the best one morally. End the age of the golden order and replace it with a gentle age of the stars
@@kaesarslaanestis4524 I agree with the notion more that the flame of frenzy is a pessimistic ideology where life must end to end suffering itself. A point of saying there is no point to another age unless we burn it all away. I don't think they meant to make it replace what the crucible was but I do think they pretty much swept the crucible under the rug as a footnote in the frenzied flame philosophy
@@projectdelta8702 You are right on the mark about what the FF is. I was just trying to point out my frustration with them using the word ''Chaos" with association to the FF rather than the Crucible, which in my opinion is way more fitting.
Excited to watch this! Personally I found goldmask ending to be one of the "good" endings. At least the best of the elden lore endings
Defo one of my fave endings!
@@SmoughTown what's bad about the Age of Stars ending? Everyone is freed from fate, and have their agency is returned.
@@linkholder Removing the order from TLB leaves it open for the Outer Gods to have their way with anyone still living there, or at least that’s the problem I have with it.
@@linkholder m'y Guess is that the stars will have a easier Access to the Land betwen wich mean more eldritch abomination. Also the dominating élément will be a cold dark Moon so maybe some kind of long and dark winter ahead. Futhermore when you hit ranni After becomming her consort she say "that's what i'm getting for conforting myself in désillusion" (note the perfect quote but désillusions is used) I choose to think if that as a some kind of doubt Rani arbort in the guidance of her Moon ... Or the stars in général
@@marchereve3280 She says "It is what I deserve... for surrendering to delusion" it means she had hopes to marry a decent Lord but now she's disappointed and heartbroken that her Lord is actually a violent idiot. But everything else you said is correct. The Age of Stars fundamental principle is embracing the uncertainty of fate in whichever form it may take. The take I get is that Age of Stars is the True Ending, Age of Order is the Good Ending, Age of Dispair and Frenzied Flame are the Bad Endings, Age of the Duskborn and Age of Fracture are Neutral Endings.
Great video man, thank you for bringing us the story of Goldmask’s work. If brother Coryn had watched this video he wouldn’t have ended up dead in the game. 😄
Im really happy to hear that you enjoyed it. He is such an interesting character
Interesting theory that Goldmask means to isolate the Elden Ring from any worldly gods. It's the exact opposite of Miquella's Unalloyed Gold, which rejects the influence of the outer gods.
I was honestly thinking that with the greater will abandoning the lands between, the Elden Ring and its power are now completely in control over the lands between while simultaneously being disconnected from the outer god. The unalloyed gold needle is The sword and the Elden Ring of perfect order is The shield
But the outer Gods need Worldly Gods to serve as their Vessels anyway.
Indeed, but we are told from the very beginning that the greater will abandoned the lands between. Leaving its vassal beast to merge and become God itself. The outer God controlling the lands between dipped and now it's up for grabs amongst its eldritch kind, all while the vassal beast is blindly keeping the concept of Order alive without the Greater Will. Regardless of its shape, there must be Order. Marika may have pulled off the greatest cosmic heist by tricking an outer God into making its power physically manifest, only to then betray that outer God and have it abandon the realm while simultaneously forgetting it's manifested power behind. It's brilliant. The power of God is no longer out of the hands of the people. They can shape the world as they see fit
Oh god, Goldmask is Martin Luther. Fantasy protestantism, with all it's potential and vulnerability.
@@akaroth7542 THANK YOU
This is an excellent topic! To me, when playing this game, I became heavily inspired by Radagon’s lore. My build is based upon the idea of completion, thus making full use of intelligence and faith. I enjoy the “flavour” of The Golden Order a lot as well.
Another banger lore video. One thing I would say is that even though the Golden Order accepted other ideologies and beliefs as shown during Radagon's liurnian wars, cracks had already started to appear when Godfrey reigned supreme. Even though the crucible knights fought alongside Godfrey, omens were already considered impure for which Morgott and Mohg were shunned underground.
I like that Golden Mask didn’t do what so many commonly do: decide that something that did evil is entirely evil and throw the whole thing out and even demonize the good aspects for being part of it. Instead, he took the good out of the bad and replaced the bad with more good to create something much better. It, too, will not be perfect. But, it’s flaws will no longer be demonstrated through genocide and devastation.
I’m literally watching these movies like documentaries on religion and history. So fascinating!
Thanks Evelyn
It seems that goldmask has a lot of eclipse iconography, his rune for one and the inside of his mask. It is a dark material that is rimmed with gold. It seems him and Ranni are both using the moon to distance the influence of the golden order. Ranni gives it all over to the moon cutting off the world entirely, meanwhile goldmask eclipses the fickle gods so that the influence of golden order becomes an ephemeral and omnipresent constant.
Gotta say, I'm surprised. Even after consuming all of VaatiVidya's content you actually manage to tell me even more intersting stuff. Your elden Ring stuff is top notch, every single one so far. Didn't even watch this one yet, but I'm pretty confident it'll be worth my time.
I really hope you enjoy this one!
@@SmoughTown No worries, I will ;)
You make some of the best Elden Ring lore videos and make them very entertaining to watch! For that I thank you
I'm so grateful for all the support and kind words! Thank you
@@SmoughTown NP, Keep up the great work!
✨️THE EVER BRILLIANT GOLDMASK✨️
24:05 I think that it could be Miquella that is referenced. He was gifted enough to come up with his own Fundamentalist incantation AND inspire a literal god, his dad, Radagon. There aren't any connections between Miquella and archery nor Goldmask and archery, so I believe that we are forced to speculate.
It would make sense for Miquella to invent that bow as a weapon for himself, given that his eternal youth means he probably lacks the strength for a normal one…
@@Merlin1908 I considered that, but then I realized that the Golden Order is almost entirely made up of warriors which makes the situation weird; this could justify the pulley weaponry being attributed to Miquella just as much as it could explain why he wouldn't be the creator of these weapons. Simply put, if everyone in the family is a warrior, why do we need to force the sickly yet brilliant kid to ALSO learn how to fight in war when he would be better suited for affairs away from the battlefield? Conversely, Marika or even the Greater Will could have demanded that all demigods train to be capable defenders of the throne, Miquella eternal youth be damned. It's hard to say as things sit currently, I think.
I also believe these were made by Miquella, since he's always described as being precocious and inventive in a way that Radagon isn't.
This video is amazing and SO well written!!!💗💞💖💕 It actually got me thinking. Marika's intentions via the shattering of the Elden Ring was to make the golden order "stronger" through conflict, and she had planned on calling the tarnished back to the lands between. Goldmark being a brilliant tarnished, as well as a stalwart believer in fundamentalism (An ideology with Marika as the patron deity) makes me believe that that Goldmask's Age of Order is exactly the type of event that Marika sought. Through the combined actions of the player character (the law of causality) and Goldmask (the law of regression) Marika's plan works, the player becomes the elden lord, and Goldmask functionally becomes the messiah and mouthpiece (finger piece?) of fundamentalism. It's a win-win-win and I think my new favorite ending, thank you so much for this video!!
You are most welcome and thank you so much for your thoughts, its so nice to hear that my videos were worthwhile to watch! Goldmask is a truly fascinating character
Comprehensive, deep, and entertaining as always. You and Last Protagonist are the ones I look forward to most
Thank you Kevin! And LP is one of my faves too!
I think Goldmask might actually be my favorite Soulsborne NPC. Mans T-poses his way into creating a new world order and has sick taste in masks. Really nice to see his whole quest laid out. Interesting conclusion! :3 (I think he's actually a genuinely interesting representation of both a religious scholar and...well I'm not sure which exactly, mans is SOME kind of neurodivergent. Really interesting to see in such a big triple-A game.)
I've never understood why the player still respawns when Maliketh kills us. I mean, in gameplay terms obviously, but lore-wise he *should* be the only one who can actually prevent that.
Same here
I thought it was something something Farum Azula's exists beyond time
It's the guidance of grace that's keeping us alive, not the lack of Destined Death.
Easy Medium Hard Lore Accurate
The answer is most likely simply the fact that Maliketh's rune of Destined Death is incomplete. If you remember, part of it was stolen? The parts that were taken to make the hallow-brands are largely diffused throughout the land in death root. Put simply, Destined Death has been broken. It can't work in a bound form anymore because parts of it are too scattered. It isn't until we UNBIND the fragment that Maliketh is guarding that the power is fully unleashed and killing gods becomes possible.
Brilliant essay! I can't help be think about how much the golden order seems to be an analogy for ideologies and systems irl, as we humans seem to be faced throughout our eras with systems that are imperfect, and nearing their end we always create a good vs evil paradigm, instead of a approaching a solution that possible changes and improves the system. Very easy to see this manifesting within the fascist and communist regimes in the last century, and even in our times it seems we're facing the same issues still. Without this video I would never have understood this part of the lore, thank you so much!
Thanks Bibs! I found it to be an intriguing and thought provoking subject as well
Man, you're the only one who gives me these long, very awesome lore videos in the way that stratches my Elden Ring Lore itch while I play. Seriously look forward to everyone of these and seeing them pop up in my recommendations makes me giddy! Thank you!
Thanks dude! Next couple are already in progress!
You have easily become a top teir Soulstuber like Vaati, ChasetheBro, Zullie, and very very few others. Thank you for your hardwork and dedication to us, the fans, I love the long-form video style. Keep it up!
This is an absolutely brilliant lore video. Youve touched upon the core themes and thrust of the Golden Order, from every angle. I gotta say it again but absolutely brilliant. This needs to be the go-to video when people speculate on the Golden Order and ideas of Regression/Causality/The One Great/Maragon's Motivations. Brilliant.
I view Elden Ring in a similar sense of Norse Myth. The Erdtree is Yggdrasil, The World Tree. Queen Maricka is either Freya or Frigg. The death of Godwyn is similar to the murder of Baldr and the Shattering is Ragnarok to a degree. Granted, there are no Nine Realms, but, the Mountaintops of Giants is Jotunheim, The Royal Capital is Asgard.
@@a-Stalk3r thats a metaphpor for the inner duality of ones actions, have you ever done something that the second you do it you regreat or feel unsure? So you try to fix what youve done but its late and on top of that its what you wanted to do all along but at the end is changes that always hurts and makes you insecure. People look at it way to literally aa "fucking" theres no such fucking thing its just an idea just like a cell splits and reproduces without sex.
There's even a serpent who wants to devour everything! and a wolf that the gods fear as the bringer of their death =)
In those terms under the roots is hell and the mansion is the fire giant realm
The Eternal Cities are Svartalfheim and Alfheim (this probably fits Mistwood imo), Mt. Gelmir is Muspelheim, Concentrated Snowfields is Niflheim, Caelid is Helheim, Limgrave and Weeping Peninsula together is Midgard, and Leyndell is Falconia
9 Realms: 1) Limgrave 2) Weeping Peninsula 3) Liurnia 4) Mt Gelmir 5) Leyndell 6) Caelid 7) Mountaintops of the Giants 8) The Haligtree 9) Farum Azula (underground feels like an entire other world so not mentioned, Consecrated Snowfields is just a secret part of the Mountaintops, and Altus Plateau is the transition from the Capital and Gelmir)
I have to say that when reviewing all the ending for what they are lore-wise, Goldmask’s “Age of Order” is probably the healthiest one for the Lands Between. Yes, you solidify the Greater Will’s hold over the realm, but at the same time, true stability is manifested. Based on my assumptions, death is returned to the world (granting peace to those who have lived for far too long), the gods (present and future) are no longer destructive and maybe perhaps even things like the Omen and the Misbegotten are treated with less cruelty (as these people were hunted as “enemies” against the order, even when they were a created under the Elden Ring’s order).
We killed the greater will when we killed the elden beast.
@@cherrycola4476 Elden Beast isn't Greater Will I think it's manifestation of Elden Ring, which was send to Lands Between by Greater Will
Perhaps. Unless the mending rune functions by removing free will anyway.
words cannot describe how thankful i am to have found this channel- i’ve been wanting to get into elden ring lore for a while but a lot of the other videos i’ve found i just can’t get into. your content is absolute godsend, i love how deeply you go into things and it’s so interesting hearing about the more obscure things rather than just a surface level analysis of the story as a whole. keep up the fantastic work!!!
Man, I think you are way underrated as a lore KZheadr. Really superb depth, logical throughlines, and deductive reasoning. Your narration is killer too. Thanks for everything you do bro
Smough, again your video amazes me with how thorough you are in your explanations of specific lore elements. How you describe things is the most logical way in my opinion, and literally helps me piece the mysteries of the game together like a beautiful puzzle. Thank you for doing what you’ve always done, which is work hard and make great content. I look forward to more in the future! :)
Thanks so much Teo! I'm really glad that my videos work for you!
I love these deep dive videos. Been subbed since the video on the Hunters’ Nightmare. These videos are perfect for the long drives I do frequently. Thank you
Really appreciate that long support Jarl
I really love how much you collaborate with other content creators and bounce things off people in the community to then put out more detailed lore videos. The amount of time and work that you dedicate to these videos is absolutely astonishing. Thank you for all the entertainment!
I haven't been keeping up with the lore videos for a bit, because of work and other life commitments. Catching up now and I'm amazed at the quality SmoughTown, the dedication to go lore hunting in such an open enigmatic world, and the insightful commentary. Absolutely mind blowing.
So Gold Mask ends up creating a Great Rune that shields the Order from outside influences. It seems he ended up becoming similar to Miquella in the end. It makes me wonder what would happen if the 2 of them met.
They were both involved in Fundamentalism so it’s possible they’ve already met
There’s a distinction though: Miquella sought to block the influence of “outer gods” which are seemingly incorporeal higher powers like the frenzied flame, the outer god of rot, etc. Goldmask seems to want to limit the influence of the “lower” gods (for lack of a better term) and demigods who are corporeal, living beings. I certainly never got the sense that Goldmask was trying to block the influence of the Greater Will, but rather to serve it better than Marika had, while blocking the influence of the Greater Will may have potentially been one of Miquella’s goals (as was the case for Ranni as well as Rykkard).
@@trevorkelly1149 The Greater Will already only has influence through the Elden Ring and it's vassals, so with the vassals removed and he Elden Ring barred from outside influence, any control the greater will had is severed.
@@trevorkelly1149 But Goldmask was supportive of burning the Erdtree, which went against what the Elden Beast/Greater Will wanted. If you read the item descriptions associated with him, Goldmask was actually against the zealotry shown by Corhyn and the Hunters of the Dead. He didn't believe in absolute evil and encouraged a more evolutionary philosophy which was constantly debated and improved over time. He doubted the 'perfection of the Golden Order', since long before the Shattering. He lost all his students because of his beliefs and his intro shot implies that someone killed him by poisoning his drink. I think the Perfect Order rune refers to the Greater Will, as it has shown itself to be as fickle as any human. Followers of the Golden Order like the Finger Readers believe they can commune directly with the Greater Will through Two Fingers, so it makes sense for his rune to refer to the Greater Will. Melina says that Marika herself wanted to 'explore the depths of the Golden Order' and basically critically examine its philosophy in much the same way Goldmask ended up doing.
@@deadshot1995 That quote is very interesting because we always see Fundamentalism associated with Radagon and Miquella except in this one case where it's associated with Marika.
This man has finally explained elden ring better to me than any video I've seen yet. Well done.
Thats great to hear! thank you
43:00 Bars, I'm stealing that. Keep up the great content, I always come out of your videos more fascinated in this game and it's themes than when I came in.
43:00 is something I'd like to talk about at length when it comes to many subjects. Hit deep. Amazing video, and the quote from Kreia is the cherry on top.
When the video starts with a Kreia quote you know it's gonna be good.
As always, me and other lore nerds appreciate the work you put into your videos and for satiating our hunger for lore..thanks man:)
More to come Klefthoof! Thanks for taking the time to watch
11/10 for delivery, discussion and detective work. The way you piece things together is so entertaining. With this episode being so tied to core story, I was skeptical. You've done it again! Thank you for stitching together these loose ties and giving us a better idea of the world we play in.
That's so great to hear! I really wanted to do this subject justice because I find it so interesting
for me you make the absolute best lore videos this video was simply mind opening and really helped me understand so much that confused me before love these super long videos and the fact that you keep making them at such consistent rate is incredible
Thanks dude, really glad you enjoyed it, took me a while to get the script right!
Just subscribed to your channel and my God this video is absolutely amazing and highly recommendable. I’ve been a bit of a lore addict of the Soulsbourne games since DS1. This video is put together so well, thought provoking and narrated. I could go on and on but I’ll leave it by saying I take my hat off to you good sir. I think you’ve cracked the lore on this one
Thank you so much! I really wanted to get this one nailed down because I loved the subject matter
Great video, love how in-depth your analysis is. I think it's interesting to note that there are essentially two in-game interpretations of the Golden Order. The version based on its core mathematical principles, which encourages critical thinking, and the version which preaches dogmatism. One of Melina's dialogues recalls that Marika actually tried to establish the former, declaring her intent to search the depths of the Golden Order to better understand it and stating that the time for blind faith was past them. She bemoans her comrades in the Golden Order for faltering in their support of her intentions. But what would've caused them to falter? I'd say it could only be the Envoys of the Greater Will: the Two Fingers. The Two Fingers preached a dogmatic version of the Golden Order wherein its teachings were absolutely perfect and unquestionable, and anything that defied its beliefs was an absolute evil that must be expunged. Many characters in the game explicitly refer to the Two Fingers as dogmatic. Marika's desires for the Golden Order seem to reflect Rogier's statements about the GO of the past. But since long before the Shattering, it would seem that the Two Fingers dogmatism won out. Every follower of the GO aside from Goldmask, including the Finger Readers, Corhyn and the Hunters, are entirely rigid in their views. And back when Goldmask was alive, he'd lost all his students for refusing to subscribe to this dogmatism and his intro shot implies that he was poisoned because of his beliefs. Much like Marika's comrades, his faltered at the prospect of questioning the Golden Order. Goldmask, in this sense, is the only member of the religion who actually adheres to its principles as Marika intended. This is further evidenced by the fact that Goldmask supports burning the Erdtree unlike every other known member of the Golden Order. This aligns with what Marika wants, but goes against the wishes of the last remaining true representative of the Greater Will, the Elden Beast. While I agree with you that The Mending Rune of Perfect Order directly shields the Elden Ring from Vassal Gods (Marika/Radagon and the Elden Beast), this also results in reducing the power of the Greater Will, which can only interact with the Elden Ring through these vassals. So ironically, while Age of Order Ending limits Marika's power, in doing so it comes closest of all the endings to accomplishing exactly what she wanted.
Enia actually says you should burn the tree too, even if it's a cardinal sin.
@@handtomouth4690 In the end she says you should do what you feel is right, which is pretty significant development.
Absolutely blessed to have people putting in the work to bring us fans content like this. I can’t get enough. Getting into the lore got me back into the game like I’ve never experienced it before. I loved being a new fromsoftware game player and playing through elden ring, I’ve never had a gaming experience quite like it. I’m obsessed with traversing the lands between to see all of this lore come together myself. Thank you so much!
You are without a doubt the best Elden Ring lore hunter in the game today. Your videos are so well-researched and you just knock it out of the park with every one. I hope you never stop making these, because there is soooooooooooooo much more about this game I'd like to know. Thanks for the years of great content.
Thanks Flo! No plans to stop now, so many topics for me to cover
I'm excited to see this, I've had and seen plenty theories and odd bits of lore on goldmask and cant wait to see whats been pieced together. Such a strange character that hardly speaks or moves tied to the order has to have an intriguing story, especially if hes possibly and onyx/alabaster lord and originates from the cosmos.
It might be just because of video game mechanics, but I always wondered why bosses and shard bearers can die a true death at the hands of a tarnished. With all the effort to explain how other enemies respawn along with our own character, why not a throwaway explanation for the powerful enemies? This must be how Goldmask felt. Incredible video as always
They don't, they go back to the erdtree, hence you can channel their power for yourself through the remambrances and their great runes
They don't die, they just recover and might get taken by the Erdtree and eventually begin their body recovering, they die later when we unleash the destined death though.
Nothing you kill dies until you kill maliketh. They start their reincarnation, but as you took the part of reality they stole for themselves, theri importance as players in the game to reform the eleden ring in ones own image is over. Why do they take longer to reincarnate than some random footsoldier? Well maybe they dont, but footsoldiers are plentiful enough that there are new ones constantly.being shat our by the samsara.
Keep the content flowing man. I don't know how you do it, but I'm always impressed with the quality of your vids.
This is a really solid video! I’m surprised Goldmask and the Age of Order haven’t been covered that much by a lot of lore creators. Since Last Protagonist’s video has heavily influenced yours, I figured I’d transclude the comment I left on his video here for posterity: “So I agree with you for the most part, but I’m not sure I quite by the idea that everyone is unable to die during the Golden Order. Erdtree Burial still existed during the golden age before the Shattering, so most people were in fact dying during this era. What exactly is up with the Hollow-esque enemies and the references to “unending life” are an intriguing mystery, but I do not believe immortality is something conferred on everyone during the golden age of the Golden Order. Perhaps the Shattering messed things up in this regard?” “I am also not sure if Marika’s goal really is to kill the Elden Beast. It’s definitely a possibility, but we certainly do not accomplish that goal in the game since while we do slay it, we put the Ring back together immediately after defeating it in the Elden Lord endings. There is some good evidence for it though from both Hewg and Gideon Ofnir. I also think the reason she removed the Rune of Death was simply because of her obsession with eternity and refusal to give up her seat as the current god.” Now, you don’t seem to precisely agree with his interpretation of this. Your view seems to be more that Erdtree Burials are a replacement for “true” death. In my view, the game is somewhat contradictory on this topic. We’ve got stuff that suggests people straight up just don’t die, but we’ve also got stuff suggesting that people do die, and the removal of the Rune of Death either only affected the demigods, or led to a change in the “afterlife” (replacing the spirit world with Erdtree reincarnation or recycling). I do think the wandering nobles’ state may be linked to the Shattering rather than the removal of the Rune of Death - as the Aristocrat Garb refers to the nobles’ “unending life” in the same sentence as their state after the Shattering, which to me implies their undead state and the Shattering are connected. It’s ambiguous when the conflict between Marika and the Godskins occurred. Personally, I think their presence in Farum Azula and general presentation as an extremely ancient organization indicates that rather than arising later after Marika already became reigning deity, that Marika and the Gloam-Eyed Queen were both rivals for the deity position after Placidusax’s god abdicated. Marika won the conflict and created the Golden Order, removing the Rune of Death to disempower the Godskins. She does seem to be obsessed with eternal life in general - “Queen Marika the Eternal” and all that - so she may have done this regardless of if they were a threat or not. All of that aside though, you’re correct that Goldmask definitely does see the removal of Destined Death as a flaw in the Golden Order. He follows us to the Mountaintops of the Giants to see us release the Flame of Ruin (and with it the Rune of Death). I do think you’re missing a piece in terms of what Goldmask actually doing for most of the game. He’s not just calculating things, he seems to be directly communing with the Greater Will as a sort of “human Two Fingers“. This is indicated by his communication to Corhyn being two of his fingers wiggling, just like the Two Fingers. On top of that, I think Goldmask’s portrayal as this emaciated, nearly naked guy that’s meditating 24/7 is meant to reflect mysticism as a real-world religious practice, just turned up to 11 to be more attention-grabbing and fun in-game. He doesn’t eat, he doesn’t sleep, he’s deliberately abandon his own identity, covering his face with the mask and only answering to a name derived from it, all he does is commune with the divine. I believe I said this on your Miquella video, but it does seem that what Miquella’s trying to do, his Unalloyed Gold, is pretty similar to Goldmask’s Perfect Order. From Miquella’s cut ending we find out that his ultimate goal was to totally supplant Marika as the current deity, re-organizing the Elden Ring to create his own Order. While he seems to be more focused on social flaws than mathematical ones, like the persecution of Crucible mutants and Albinaurics, he similarly sees flaws in the Order but wants to improve it.
Fantastic work, so many parallels to the real world. I always asked myself “would a Roman citizen, or a feudal lord at the end of their eras tell you that their way of life is about to fall?” And I assume not. Just as in the current day there are millions of people saying that our current system is perfect, some so much so they’d revert any progress (libertarians for example) in their futile belief that their system is perfect, and any fault in it lays in those he seek to change it or live outside of it, despite obvious flaws (imperialism, starvation, class contradictions) I think Elden ring is the commentary on the cyclical nature of empires, and how an era must be evaluated for its contradictions and errors and eventually replaced. Dialectical thinking and synthesis is the only way forward as dogmatic though will only result in creating an “us and them” mentality. This is a fact as otherwise one would have to question their dogmatic beliefs, which would contradict fundamentalism itself. Man almost reminds me of that one group of people who’s belief was using dialectical and historical materialism to synthesise a better way forward, to hopefully create a non-idealist way forward to remove the contradictions that have plagued our world since the first lords and monarchs arose… A group of people who are often blamed as the cause of any crisis our system goes through, and are persecuted and destroyed as a way to shift blame from the issues of our system, to the point of making the very idea of their beliefs almost heretic……..
I know what your getting at here, and I disagree, but KZhead comments is no place for ideological disagreements with any depth, but I love how elden ring is so narratively profound that it can spawn such rich introspection in our own world.
@@isaiahgarcia7456 I stand by the first half as empires refusing to die is a theme that started and continued from demon souls. The next half is just drawing parallels, you could do the same with the French Revolution or the origins of capitalism itself. Difference is those two have synthesised a way forward, but proceeded to then become dogmatic about it. Kinda like the milk toast vanilla ending of overturning the golden order with your own one. The mysterious group I was referring to, the very basis of their ideology is synthesis, lack of dogmatism, Hegel’s dialectics (eg. “All dogs have 4 legs” + “some dogs loose their legs” = “most but not all dogs have all 4 legs”). Kinda like the open ending of Ranni, where nothing stays and people are free to change their system. The only thing Ranni says about her age is that it’ll be cold and bring back death indescriminate, no hiding in the comfort of dogmatism, that “us v them” mentality I mentioned. If an idea is good it sticks, if it is not it’s synthesised and another is tried, kinda like that group of people implementing aspects of their “enemy” ideology in order to improve. The parallel is strong cause as I mentioned only science and that mysterious ideology follow this, all other systems from the birth of religion to libertarianism are dogmatic, and have only really changed when faced with complete collapse and even then the trend is to revert to the very thing that caused said collapse. Like the market crashes we live through every decade. But as I said it’s just a parallel that sticks very well, and I think the overall message of the game (and most other From games) is the need to implement dialectical thinking and embrace change, not specifically that unnamed ideology. A critique of dogmatism and the stagnation it causes.
@@isaiahgarcia7456 Well said
That is not what libertarianism is.
@@vyor8837 „No” is point mate Libertarians belive their system is perfect, and any issue in their their system is a result of, for example (making the rich pay, free mecidine, publish transport) . They are all things they would blame for the crisis of our times which come naturally in capitalism (fact) . Liberalism reject everything in the face of their order, they’re ideas, they seek to go back to the glory days of capitalism while ignoring how flawed they are . They belive if their true capitalism was in place (a capitalism flawed and full of issues,imbalances which fuel wars, market crashes, and revolution.) The very idea is flawed and libertarians seek comfort in something that would be tragic for many, and to cope with that they call out socialists, progressives etc. as reasons for the fall. Which is a lie Libertarians take solice in a viewpoint they like, and blame it’s inherent problems on other systems, that’s that do want to change
"It reminds me of the convergence from Dead Space." Man what a fantastic series that was. One of my favorites ❤
I love the longer videos man! Your voice is so calming it helps me sleep at night
This was one of your best so far. And I really loved the reference to kotor 2. Krieas point of belief and needing to be willing to betray that belief if you’re truly convicted, is something I took to heart ever since I played that game many many years ago. It’s amazing to see the philosophy’s of that character reach out this far from its creation. I’d really like to see one of these on who marika and radagan were and how they came together as one god if at all possible.
You know a video is going to be good when it opens up with a quote from Kreia
Your videos are the new Vaati to me, super in depth, great to ponder over when I want to learn and to sleep to when I just want to chill and hear about elden ring, love this lore and love the channel
Thanks Percy, hope you find this one equally interesting. So happy that you love the channel
Yo dude, fantastic video as always. You just turned a character I didn't understand into one of my favourites. Keep up the great work
I cant express how great your content has been. Been sick for a few days and your videos have been amazing for getting my mind off of things. God bless you SmoughTown
The "Age of order" ending best fits the FromSouls series' ideals of trying again until you get things right.
One question is always - why was the Rune of Death removed? Given that the Golden Order sought control and power, what could be a more a symbol of power than controlling death itself? People are always seeking ways to cheat death, to live forever, and the Golden Order provided it. What they didn't account for was how, in the long run, it only created new problems.
I figured it was removed when all opposition to the Order was defeated, because you can’t kill your enemies when they can’t die. Once they obtained all power they solidified it with defacto immortality and the “prosperity of endless growth”.
Before it was removed the godskins and gloam eyed queen had access to god-slaying flame. After removing it only Maliketh held the power to cause a true death. Removing the rune of death is what gave them control over death, before that anyone could use it.
I think that the removal of Destined Death was to prevent the god of the land from dying. Think about it, if the god of the land could die, the Golden order would have fallen apart when Gransaxx showed up at Leyndell.
Never thought id see a star wars quote before a fromsoft lore video to help contextualise whats to come but im all for it!
Bro, I was just looking for a lore video on Goldmask the other day. This is the first one I've found so far since the game released.
Lore daddy dropping some lore on gold daddy 👌🏼
Goldmask is a man that isn’t afraid to challenge his own religion. If it can stand up to scrutiny then it deserves to be what it is. And the Golden Order didn’t stand up to Goldmask’s scrutiny. And thus he decided he needed to make it stand up to scrutiny. Goldmask came to the Lands Between to fix the Golden Order and T-Pose on the blind faithfuls…and he’s done plenty of T-Posing.
Discovered your channel yesterday and I really love how you approach Elden Rings lore, I can't wait for your Radagon lore video.
Hey! Thanks so much for the feedback, really glad you found me! More to come soon
Da fk brah, congrats on the 75k milestone but I was shocked. You’re one of my favorite creators and your videos are next level. 75k is just the beginning