"Is it Spicy?" Does BookTok have a "Spice" problem?
2024 ж. 21 Сәу.
19 714 Рет қаралды
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Booktok just has a BAD BOOKS IN GENERAL problem.
You get it!!
They will read the most badly-written books just because the MC is doing it every chapter instead of progressing the plot.
Something I've noticed a lot recently especially on IG when an author is promoting their book, people in the comments will say "But what's the spice level?" "Is it spicy? that's all I care about." and I can only imagine how those authors feel putting their books out into the world and having people only want to read it if there's smut in it. There are SO many books out there with spice; people will survive if a book has none.
Some people ask if there's spice because they don't want to pick up a spicy book.
@@katgreer6113 sure, but that hasn’t been the case in any of the times I’ve seen it. When they’re told “no”, they’re disappointed. There are other ways to find out if a book has spice or not without filling up an author’s comment section with the same questions.
@@katgreer6113Unfortunately, it's not like that all the time. Most of the ones who do ask whether the book is spicy or not is because they want to only read or skip to the "action parts", and not for the story, themes, nor characters in the book.
Sometimes I think that words like "spicy" and "smut" caused some people to become too comfortable talking about pornography with strangers. And it's not just on the internet, I had people I barely know in real life try to tell me about the erotica they were reading in detail, completely unprovoked. I don't want to know what turns you on... wtf
@@luizabianco That is wild. There are probably only certain ppl who want to hear someone talk abt the smutty parts of a book.
The smut in these books has lost all “intimacy” if that makes sense.. it feels like it’s a “how many sx tropes and words can I fit in these 10 pages” challenge.. I don’t usually read smut but I have read a few out of curiosity and that’s what they all sound like to me.
As someone who read a handful of YA fantasies with spice, I 100% agree. The romance in those kinds of books feels so shallow, and call me sensitive, but why do the sex scenes always have to include degradation or be somewhat violent? If that’s what the author enjoys, then that’s completely fine, but I feel like most YA authors tend to leave out the “romance” part, and just have the couple’s relationship be boiled down to sexual tension and nothing else.
@@toastysweaters5692 exactly!! Intimacy and sex is just one part of s relationship but like you said, these authors make it sound like it’s the whole relationship. Also I fully agree, idk what’s up w all the degradation either.
This!
@@toastysweaters5692 I agree! There is so much degradation kink, it's annoying. I know some women are into that and that's completely fine but as someone who get's uncomfortable around the mistreatment of women in intimate moments, I am so SO tired of seeing women getting degraded. Like you can be a sub without being treated like an object. Or you can both be "neutral" in the relationship, maybe even have the woman dom the man if you really want to be original and switch things up lol.
@@toastysweaters5692 And it's ALWAYS the woman who's getting degraded, but it NEVER happens to men in those "spicy" books and I hate it. I generally dislike the books that are only "spice", but even more I despise the fact that they are plagued by these domineering men as main love interests.
People aren't saying that Booktok has a porn addiction problem because they are reading Spicy books, it's because they're harassing people (including minors) and when they get called out for violating consent they try to justify themselves by making excuses. (The same ones that some men use when they violate consent.) As a man I was disheartened to see how so many women on booktok supported Kiara during the whole Seattle Krakens drama and tried to justify her actions, ignoring the boundaries and consent of the Kraken player and his wife just so they could thirst after him. This goes into a deeper issue of consent and shows how much we have to learn. And on top of that, spicy books are the majority of, if not all of what they read and won't bother reading books unless they have spice or dark/toxic content. (All of this is very similar to people with porn addictions) And normally the response given is "Not all of Booktok is like that." Which is true, but when we continue to use that we as a community are not addressing the issue. It may not be all of booktok, but it is a part of it. There's nothing wrong with a little spice, it's what you do and how you act after reading it.
I agree. Also a lot of people not people not being able to read something without there being multiple graphic sex scenes smells a bit like a porn addiction to me
Also, reading smut in public or around others is just fucking weird and gross. Like, in my eyes it’s the same as watching porn in public but with headphones on. If you can’t read or watch anything without porn then you’re a porn addict. Regardless of the medium
Booktokians when the children’s book that belongs to their 3 year old niece doesn’t have spice: 😡😡😡😡
No one is like that bro
@@Spawnofademonthat’s the joke
"Yeah, my book has spice." MC buys hot sauce every day.
Booktok definitely has a spice problem. Lately you can’t find a video that’s not about a spicy book!! It’s in everything! Fanstasy, romance, thriller, etc. I don’t mind a little spice but sometimes I just want to read a book that isn’t straight up p*rn for 10 pages straight every other chapter.
I came expecting to hear about spicy books and not ONCE did I see Dune by Frank Herbert. Disappointed
It took me a second to comprehend your comment, but oh my goodness when I did I laughed out loud 😂
@@lydiakirsch5142same!
Nice I applaud you for that one 👏 that was good
The plot/quality to spice ratio is what matters to me most. I enjoy spice as long as the plot delivers. I am not a big romance reader because I am afraid that the spice will always overshadow actual quality. Spice is exclusively for romance novels in my taste of reading
I expected more in depth analysis or at least a more deeper opinion than just "If you don't like it than ignore it". Booktok definitely have a 🌽 problem. It's not normal for middle aged women writing inappropriate things under a SIXTEEN year old biker boy's video who even had his age in his bio, than make fun of his 'innocence' cause he actually reads age appropriate books like Hunger Games and recommending Haunting Adeline. Or the hockey drama itself proves that they have a 🌽 problem. It's like people can't separate spicy fiction from reality. Personally, had a Friend who i got into reading and she started to get deeper into dark romance, it was already weird for me when I told her books that I loved and she should try them and she asked if there's smut in it cause " I can't read it if there is no smut in it". Later on they proceeded to make snarky and slightly mocking comments about my book taste when I told her about The Cruel Prince, which is by far my favourite book series, or Battle royale which is my favorite book, and none of them have spice so it's "boring". The " Is it spice?" or "Spice level?" Comment are just the tip of the iceberg but mocking others for having different taste, being inappropriate/sexualizing/objectifying real life people just because it was hot in a book, justifying and praising characters that are well over morally gray, like Z@de Meadows who SAed the main character and completely forgiving and blame it on the MC cause "She was into it", like no, she wasn't at that part of the book, but they forgive him cause he's hot, is a stalker, helps women/girls who were sex trafficked (which is the most ridiculous and hypocritical part of the book, even calls Adeline as he calls these girls he saves). And this was just one example of the characters these books have. I might be vanilla for reading and loving YA and would rather choose a classic or a psychology book over a DR/smut book but everything that happens in these books makes me feel like I'm reading a thriller like Wreed. Let alone that the plot most of them have is basically as shallow as the main characters of these books. I want to listen to someone's opinion who actually an active DR/smut reader and also uses BookTok.
I don't think spice is a problem in itself. As someone who writes both spice and not-spice, novel and short story, fanfiction and original fiction, I think it can even be empowering. HOWEVER I hate what kind of spice always gets popular, namely the super generic dominant white cishet abeled neurotypical man and submissive virgin white cishet abled neurotypical woman. That is something I just can't relate to and can't find sexy as a bi autistic woman. Now, to each their own, but it becomes a problem when one can only find one thing (except for looking very deeply) and there is an expectation to only ever be this one thing. The harassment of real life men is absolutely disgusting and needs to stop however. Totally agree about the p*rn addiction stuff. Someone being sexually active and liking to fantasize is not the same as an addiction.
100% agree and the criticism goes both ways: those asking for spicy books are supposedly into erotica, and those asking for little-to-no spice are labelled as prudes. I personally prefer the little-to-no spice type in the romance genre (fantasy-romance being my favorite) because I'm more interested in the emotional connection between characters, and spicy scenes make me feel like a voyeur. Its not easy to find recommendations in adult fiction so I turn to YA, and even those books sometimes have spice. Sometimes I wish that the recommendations popping up on BookTok wouldn't be biased towards spice but per the old adage, sex sells. Regardless, you make an excellent point about researching a book before buying it (Goodreads is what I tend to use) and I would love to know if you have any other websites to recommend.
I wish the middle ground where spice was limited to "mild foreplay then cut to black" was more common, as well as a ratio of, say, 70% story to 30% romance. Good romance is after all a very specific type of character-driven story. Sex should enhance it, without taking over. Soon we may require an official smuttiness scale.
Just started the video, so idk if it's mentioned or this is just a whole other topic - I really hate the misleading covers spicy/erotic books have right now. With the cover like Icebreaker (and just the trend of that style) you will never guess it is mostly just smut. I worked in a bookstore, and while I know Internet exists, I still had to give a warning for very young teens that these pastel cover books have explicit content. At least if you read smut online it's for free, but buying it is a completely different thing (especially in this economy).
why cant we have nice covers? seems like a shops responsibility to make sure they are sold to the right demographic, im tired of half naked people on the covers to signal that its not for ya or kids
@@amandacantcometothephonewhat i think is that there should be an age rating on the front of a book, or the spine of it. A NUMBERED age rating, like icebreaker, would definitely be 18+. This person is complaining because cartoons are typcislly associated with children and kids might pick up a book like that. A few weeks ago i saw a 12 year old looking girl picking up icebreaker. Her dad just nodded when she showed him because some parsnts don't bother to open the book sometimes. I stopped her, opened a page for him and he thanked me 💁♀️ No need to change the covers, but having "18+🔥🔥🔥" on the spine of a book will help a LOT of people including me.
@@amandacantcometothephoneIt’s not whether or not the covers are nice, it’s that covers like Icebreaker’s look like middle grade books. Not even just in a ‘I’m saying that’ way, but quantifiably are literally reminiscent of tropes used on middle and lower grades covers, intentionally used to signal to a younger audience. /gen /nm
@@sunshineeee yup, this 👆👆👆
This. There are so many books I pick up and expect to be teen level. Nope. BDSM. Not even vanilla sex. It's ALWAYS kinky.
I dont necessarily agree that it should be up to the consumer to check if a book has triggering things or spice. If a book isnt popular the proper information may not be available. We expect the suppliers to inform us when it comes to movies and (as per another commenter's analogy) food, we should be able to expect the same from books.
13:42 - If someone says "Yes, I would like some tea" and then when you come around to pour them that tea suddenly says "Actually, no, thank you-I would not like that tea after all" or simply never actually drinks it even though you did indeed pour it for them....that is actually okay, people are allowed to change their minds, 'yes' once before or in the beginning is not 'yes, all the time / any time - times-infinity, no boundaries / no takebacksies'. It shouldn't be easier to understand the concept of consent with tea than with sm*xy-shtufff or anything else.
Not everything made by women for women has to be feminist. I feel like women often feel the need to justify when they like and enjoy something, and declaring something feminist has become the go-to. We should learn to enjoy our trash without being so self-conscious.
people should be allowed to read what they want to read, and if it is spice, then so be it. . My personal issue with spice is that I am intruding somewhere I should not, and so I do not enjoy reading it. Tbh I do not really like romance at all But the problem i encounter online is that when I ask for book recommendations, just because I am woman, i mostly get recommended romance sub-genre or spice, even when I did not ask for that. And it is difficult to train the algorithm out of these places because based on everything else, I should be target demographic and sometimes I get the feeling that it is "my fault" that I am not or people react to it weirdly
To be fair, I also noticed a lot of people asking if a certain book has spice or what's the spice level specifically because they are not interested in reading spicy books and want to know before making a purchase or borrowing it.
as someone who only reads romance or romcom books that have at least a little bit of smut, i also think we have way too many books with way too much smut-and horribly written smut at that. too many people are looking to books to fulfill their sex drive. i get it, the feeling you get from READING smut is often better than watching porn-at least for those of us who like books or audios more than videos. however, it becomes a problem when there are now NO romantic books that are just completely wholesome. for instance, heartstopper is a wholesome romance between high school boys, and the only “spice” they have is mainly kiss scenes, but they’re never spicy, just heart-jerking or face-warming. meanwhile colleen hoover books are filled to the brim with weird stereotypical cringy 7th grade level smut, with shit like “he growled” or “his lustful brown orbs” or whatever. cringy. the point is, we need to cut down on making books that have either TOO MUCH smut, or REALLY BAD smut, and start making books that have GOOD smut, and if people want books that don’t have as much obnoxious sex in it, then make books that have only small teaser smut or small glimpses of smut, but still have it very well written. the main problem is all of these middle school level sex scenes and just how many of them there are.
also i’d like to add, as someone who absolutely LOVES writing romance and smut (it’s pretty much the only thing i can write, if you set aside genres like angst or maybe light action) and adores descriptive writing, i also write plenty of smut in my own short stories. hell, you could make your entire author persona revolve around smut-make it your niche. however, if it’s smut with no plot, or there’s a plot but the smut doesn’t line up, make sense or isn’t appropriate within that book, it can’t really be considered anything but erotica. erotica is quite literally a book that revolves around smut. it’s specifically meant to arouse it’s readers. which leads to what you talked about when you mentioned those asking for spice in books totally unrelated to smut or romance in the first place-especially books meant for young teens or young adults. why are you looking for smut in THOSE when you could definitely be looking for it in EROTIC LITERATURE MADE FOR AROUSING YOU??? like…please make it make sense. i used to read plenty of sexual books on wattpad when i was in middle school. i think reading smut is good for teens, because it slowly introduces them to the world of sex. while they’re indulging in reading about sex, they’re also LEARNING about it simultaneously in health class. with books, they learn what they like and have things for and want to try out when they’re reading, as well as learning how sex works and the process behind it-and with class, they learn more in depth about how sex works, and how to have this sex safely. so honestly, i feel like between the ages of 14 - 18, light smut and cringy smut is perfectly fine. it’s when they’re subjected to deep, proper, descriptive and well written smut that maybe has to do with bdsm or dark topics that it should be suggested to 18+.
i would go even further to say that there are too many romance stories in general! this could just be my own taste but it feels like nobody is able to write or read anything that isn’t about relationships and romance
Be serious now 💀 there are so many non romance books out there lmfao. Google is free, you can find what you’re looking for easily. Try: “[genre] books with no romance”
I prefer normal fantasy to "romantasy" and its getting really frustrating looking for new books when they're all focused more on romance than character building and fantasy world building.
Absolutely not. Youre seeing more romance on social media but there is an abundance of non-romance books out there. Since media, wether its books, TV, or theatre often reflect real life, many books will have romances IN IT. Most books are NOT sorrounded around romance. That's simply not true. It's certainly the most popular genre, but that's right alongside, fantasy, science fiction, and thriller. Theres not too much romance, theres too much of you not picking up other books. Relationships are a regular part of life. Whether its friendship, family, relationships with your teacher/mentor or romantic ones. Asking for no relationships in a book doesn’t make sense to me because if the main character has no relationship with anybody, then it might feel shallow.
@@ovenbird1253 True, but you can always have both. A romantic book does not mean there is no character development.
@@katgreer6113that's an interesting perspective, especially when I and many others see romance as part of plenty of genres, and all it tends to do is make codependent characters. Now not codependent in the sense of actual humans, but in the sense of "this character is not a character without the other", which anybody could tell is an issue. Now that's not to say romance is bad in media, but there is hardly an example out there of media that doesn't value romance over other relationships. Yes, relationships are integral to humans. We need it. But romance, and unfortunately familial bonds, are not constant roles in people's lives. I myself am asexual and possibly aromantic, and if I'm not a good enough example there's tons of a-spec people who have happy and joyful lives without the "need" for a partner. There's non-aspec people as well who aren't permanently miserable just because they're single. Romance is not better or the end all be all of a person's life, but is instead just another possible relationship dynamic in a person's life if they so choose. Just because a piece of media labels itself as being anything other than romance, doesn't mean there isn't romance pushed into it. Maybe you've found plenty, but one day I thought of searching for media from the perspective of an aromantic person, and found not a thing. The focus of the story, a side part of the story, something that becomes the main story, romance everywhere...but hardly any stories placed that same kind of importance on platonic love. Also to clear up something from earlier, I don't mean to imply romance makes characters flat or lame or meaningless. But romances are often written...not super well, where that other person becomes their whole life purpose. You can value the relationships you have, but I see characters who had friends for years or decades suddenly value someone else they met five weeks ago. It's saying that friendships and family ties are secondary to romance, which is such a cruel joke to familial and platonic bonds. As a society people don't value friends as much as they do a partner for the mere sake of "partner status", and it's been showing. For decades, now.
I thought your cat was a raccoon 😶
22:18 - I think the problem is that even non-bookstores(like Walmart) do have book-sections sometimes, and (at least in my local area) there isn't really any clear genre/category/age-demographic separation at all between the books in those kinds of stores in the same way as there would be in a proper bookstore. But that doesn't mean books need to change, it means these stores probably need to do better about how they shelf books if they are going to sell books, or perhaps adult books should require ID to purchase just like adult games/movies/tv-series/etcetera do....I dunno.😅 👀
Absolutely. erotica _is_ porn. It makes sense.
I hate when people comment if there is spice in a book especially a ya book 🤦♀️
So glad you brought the issue up
such a refreshing take! glad to see someone actually on booktok talking about this
Idk, to me, the only reason i would enjoy "spice" is if it didn't take away from the plot and characters, and showed how much they cared for each other, usually just skip it tho HWHAJA
I just wanna say YOUR CAT IS SO CUDDLY OMG WHY XANT MY CAT BE LIKE THAT
Your voice is so calming I watched this to fall asleep
I hate that there is a contingent of women who don't see anything wrong with harassing men. There seems to be a double standard here which isn't OK. How can we complain about this being done to us if we are doing it too? It makes us look like hypocritical morons. I am not a misandrist but I'll let a man gatekeep or shame my consumption of corn(or anything)..never. Gabe can start barking at the other dude bros about the violent and misogynistic corn that seems to be prevent on most corn sites. Once he combats that issue, I may listen to his opinion. People have tried to shame romance readers for a long time so I don't find the scorn over spicy books surprising. I will do what I have always done and that is read what I want.
Great video and you make some really good points. I did want to point out that the background noise can be distracting at times and I wonder if there’s anything you can do to reduce it in later videos. I think the humming especially can be distracting
it defo has a "the most judgmental people" problem, i dont even have the app but im always being recommended a youtube video about new "problem" with what women specifically are reading and if they are buying too much
I think books r gonna end up having ratings and/or disclaimers the same way others forms of entertainment have.
I swear people on Booktok are so addicted to spice i could trick them to read the entire Dune series.
11:46 - This, I completely agree with, though. All things in their appropriate times or places. And not everything is always appropriate just anywhere or everywhere.
22:32 - Completely, *_COMPLETELY_* agree here too. 👍🏻🙂
22:41 - And here, too!
You know what’s interesting that no one ever seems to talk about is how many books that are considered YA have a lot of violence in them like the “hunger games” which is extremely praised but has kids killing other kids and overthrowing a whole government system.
It is not a bad thing to put warnings on content movies, shows, music all have warning and because parent can make sure they are not giving their kids inappropriate things. And no it doesn't prevent kids from getting these things but it will help parent who are book shopping with their kids and don't know anything about a book their child is getting. Putting warnings on books can help that and if a book has explicate things in it there should be warnings out on it just like everything else
This was an excellent video and I agreed with you so much even though I’m someone who prefers non-spicy books. I’m Ace and more sapphic so a lot of the books just don’t really have relationships I’d be interested in anyway. I think the moral panic has gotten ridiculous and as you said, people should research what they’re reading or what their kids want to read. The book community in general is very good about mention possible triggers - people just have to take 30 seconds to actually look the book up. A lot of authors are good about it too and even put cw and tw in their books. This whole thing takes me to the “dead dove do not eat” label that’s used widely in fandom spaces. If you don’t like what the book is about, don’t read it.
21:22 - Completely agree.
your cat is so cute omg
unrelated but i just had to comment, ur cat is sooo cuteee
What visual porn is to men, literary porn is to women. I thought it was odd at first, you explain it perfectly. Our sexuality, especially when we don't feel vulnerable, is so much about being seen and appreciated for ourselves. The well-written romances you mention deliver on that, in a way regular erotica doesn't. And every single one of these books has women responding to being wanted, being worshipped, as you say. The emotional impact is far more important than squelchy details. I don't think putting a little disclaimer would encourage teens... more like, that's irrelevant. Teens will find ways to read age-inappropriate material if they wish to, stickers wouldn't stop it. Its purpose would be helping people avoid graphic sex, if they wanr. And a small line of text in the first page or so should be enough. Also, I wish my cat was as loving as yours :(
Came for the video, stayed for that cute cat
Here is my take, maybe long: So "Spice" isnt a problem in itself. As someone who writes "non spice" cause of my past of writing horrific subjects for money. I think this whole "Spice" thing is just a huge trend right now. Just like when Twilight got big, vampire books became a trend. Corporations/websites are trying to make as much money as they can before the trend dies. On the other hand, sometimes its a "safe" addiction then actual "P*rn Sites". To some people reading "Spice" probably makes them feel better then watching "P*rn" videos.
Oh my God, your cat. ❤
Yes. They do.
Also can I just say how I'm starting to hate the phrase "spicy books"?! Like omg they can just say graphic or sexual books but saying spicy just feels like they're avoiding the fact its pornography and it's just... cringy. 😭
Otto is a cutey😻
I want to note a couple of things first one of the most noted and beloved classic erotica novels written in 1749 Fanny Hill is completely centered around its female lead and her sexual exploration and in fact many older erotica novels center on women. While at their are erotica novels that have been written by women and praised by feminists the true take over was more on the early 2000s when you saw straight up erotica novels being replace by exotica romance.
Omg I’ve been saying this for so long!
I don't feel like you actually addressed the criticism of Tiktok's near hyper obsession with spice books. It still seems that most of the big books on Tiktok are spicy, and this feels like it's fostering a community that's laser focused on sexual content to a borderline unhealthy degree, at least to my perspective.
After I'm finished with a book I'm working on (no spice), I got the idea for a book with spice, where it's not just porn and actually has plot (haha- two bestfriends -- both men -- that grew apart and are now roommates, but one of them has an insane sex drive and the other guy can't get any sleep, so other guy will start trying to help him not have sex as often because it's been ruining every other aspect of his life- then they fall in love and near the end they have....wholesome sex. THERE'S NOT ENOUGH OF THAT.THEY WILL GIGGLE AND THEY ARE SO IN LOVE WITH EACH OTHER 👹👹) uhhhhh tdlr; i just wanna write something with the ao3 tags smut and fluff
I'm listening, but the cat has all my attention
As a very non-sexual person (not asexual) I find it hard to find any book - sold for real money - that has a “spice meter” seriously. Not because smut is bad, but because the actual smut in most books now is incredibly juvenile and cringey. You can just tell that many authors under 40 have lived their reading lives on the internet. Anyone with a Wi-Fi connection can post their own erotic one-shot without having to worry about quality (as they should), but when you make the leap to physical media, I personally expect better content than something written by a 16 year old on Wattpad. Just one pass over many of these manuscripts by an editor would catch most of the bizarre phrases and, hopefully, all of the bad grammar that makes them feel like a rough draft rather than something that’s going into publishing. And I truly understand why some authors don’t want to go through a publishing company or hire an editor. Expenses aside, the fact is that a lot of censorship and complete overhauling of “controversial” fiction happens in the editor’s office. That being said, the vast, _vast_ majority of these books are centered on heterosexual relationships. Even the non-consenting ones. If you can’t afford an editor, you can always try reaching out to a colleague or even beta readers who are willing to read your draft for free. If you can’t find anyone, just set the draft down for a few weeks and come back to it. I promise it’ll be worth the effort
Kitty ❤
This was a very level-headed take on this issue. 👍 Also, your cat is precious; tell him I love him.
Better not to tell them how much spice there is in Dune.
I disagree, it is a porn addiction for most
It's that and it's a "trend" corporations, store, sites, etc are trying to get as much money as they can before the trend dies.
Overall great video. I wish you would have gotten into how YA books with spice have been around forever (give examples) and how teen sex in media *for teens* is actually an important part of their psycho-sexual development. And trying to hide sex from sex "obsessed" teens is actually harmful and hinders their development into happy healthy adults. Also for general information porn addiction doesn't exist, it's a made up thing invented by purity culture warriors. Porn can be used maladaptively, but so can literally anything. Addiction is a glitch in the physical structure of the brain. The "research" promoted by "no-porn" is pseudo science. It is non-qualitative "research". It doesn't use blind or double blind methods. It doesn't use any best practices. Top to bottom it's a lie. My one complaint about the video is that it leans into black and white morality and black and white thinking. Life is grey. False reporting and the rise of moral panic is a serious problem. The way to not be part of the problem is to consider a counter example. How far would someone counter to the thing you are reporting, thing you are responding to, thing you are blocking have to go before you block, report, respond to them. This is not both sides kind of thing. Recognizing people on "your own side" and what that looks like is important for healthy balance.
To paraphrase a comment I made on another video, we do NOT need sex and its heavy descriptions to enjoy a story. Romance genre or otherwise. Just implying that two characters made love is enough to fuel our imagination. And incest and domestic abuse is NOT romantic! And definitely not normal. It’s illegal and toxic, and whoever is writing, labeling and seeing it as romantic needs serious help and immediately blacklisted. Looking at you, Colleen Hoover (and any other similarly like-minded authors)! As a Christian, I don’t support same sex anything in real life or in today’s media, especially when done by force and targeted towards children. As an average person, I also can’t stand spice/erotica. Unless you are a Neanderthal, nobody needs to hear or wants to hear about how you did it in the bedroom or wherever. We can speculate just fine without all the details. I promise you, a book can be enjoyed and sold just fine without all that smut. And as a woman who comes from an abused past, with my late stepfather abusing me in every way as a child, I can 100% tell you there is nothing romantic about verbal, sexual and domestic abuse whatsoever. Abuse in any form or fashion is NEVER okay! It’s especially dangerous that women of all ages in today’s society are being and have been brainwashed into seeing it as romantic, as well as seeing an abuser not only get the girl, but get away with their crimes altogether. And as an animal lover, animal abuse doesn’t get a pass either. I turn on cartoons and play video games and read books to relax and escape reality. Not have more of this toxicity shoved in my face. We need a better system in place where the level of spice and trigger warnings alike are given in advance. Research, you say? We do! And even then, it’s not enough. Things can still get overlooked or slip through the cracks, because not every summary and review is that mindfully thorough, nor are they always honest. Nothing is foolproof, even with research. This is just another reason why I stick with books and authors I am familiar with. Because I know what I’m setting myself up for and can indulge myself in peace and I don’t have to worry about certain triggers catching me off guard. It’s also why visiting libraries needs to become a regular thing again. You can borrow a book for free and even give it light skim and read through before officially checking out. Returns are also hassle-free, provided you return the book before it’s due. And if you don’t like the book midway? No problem! Equally just as easy a return at no cost to you. Not just books, but movies and such as well. Time to show our local library more love and appreciation like we did in the past. Not just our local bookstores
I absolutely agree with everything you’ve just said. It heavily unnerves me the way people are so desensitized nowadays. Praying for our society 🙏
People who "complain" about spice scare me. The rise of anti-sex is actually frightening and dangerous.
Agreed.
Yeah I get if it’s not your thing, but idk. I never complain about it. I’m just afraid of people being shamed for liking fiction (including spicy fiction), especially when I see a repeated habit of it happening.
@@TabbyWithMittens the only thing people should feel shame for liking is Harry Potter and Pokemon. I'm one of those people who defend liking trash as long as it's good trash. Honestly the real reason people have a problem with spice in middle grade and YA is because they are more immature than middle graders and young adults. Adults don't treat children and youth like they are real people and that is wrong.
@@alananimus9145 Oh yeah I understand Harry Potter, but why Pokemon.
@@TabbyWithMittens I will give a short answer then you can read the longer answer if you want. In short I hate pokemon because unlike Digimon it doesn't take it's premise seriously and nothing is ever accomplished. It's a toy ad that plays on psychological short comings in the human mind in order to sell merchandise. I recognized this even as a kid. The longer answer is that while the first generation has a pretty consistent magic system it's a hodge podge and doesn't really do anything and is never taken seriously. The show has exactly two episodes. The first episode which introduces Ash, and then it's the same episode over and over and over and over and over and over and over again ad nauseam. One of the psychological tricks that the show relies on was something blues clues discovered. The more children saw the same episode the more they enjoyed it. This is because they liked feeling smart and "predicting" the answer. By using the formula they did Pokemon could just turn out the same episode and allow the child viewers to feel smart. Unlike digimon however Ash never grew up and so they never had to challenge the viewer, and because of that the show hasn't changed in 30 years outside of aesthetics and adding a few magic systems that break the world. There isn't a story or character development outside of the most superficial layer. Absolutely nothing happens or has any consequences. The fact that monsters exist in the wild in large numbers and have magical world shaping and world breaking powers is ignored except when its not. The show is demeaning and talks down to children. And again nothing happens or has consequences. It's just endless garbage in garbage out. Now don't get me wrong there is nothing wrong with liking garbage. Hell I like Sword Art Online which is trash garbage of mid quality. But it doesn't go on for 30 seasons. They are quick romps in the mud while it's raining before hosing off and coming inside for a relaxing shower. Its not 1,269 episodes of the same damn episode with nothing ever happening for 1,268 of those episodes. My second biggest issue with pokemon is not that it's trash, or that the premise is not taken seriously, or that it goes on forever and ever without going anywhere. My biggest issue, like my issue with Harry Potter is that people defend it as good. They think liking a thing and that thing being good are the same thing. "I am good. I like this thing. Therefore it is good." My biggest issue with it though is that it like Harry Potter is dangerous. Like actually dangerous. It's a power fantasy that doesn't challenge power. One might make the same claim about SAO and they would be correct. Where they would be wrong however is that SAO is challenged by the existence of things like Re-Zero, Shadow in Immanence, Mushoku Tensei, //hack, etc. Pokemon doesn't have that outside of digimon which is all but forgotten. Pokemon and Blues Clues are responsible for the Disneyfication of children's media in which challenging children became seen as morally evil. Subversive messaging mostly went away lest the parents and their godlike authority be challenged. Because we all know as yungblud says in his song "Parents are always right."
YA books are not edited for content. Many teen books especially from the 80s 90s and 00s would be rated R or even X. Yes YA can absolutely be spicy (and it should be). Squeamishness about teens being horny, having sexual feelings, and having sex is an adult problem not a book problem or teen problem. YA books are not targeted to adults if you have a problem with YA novels dealing with sex that is a you problem, get over yourself, or don't read it. Seriously, purity culture bullshit is going to fuck up the youth. The brain makes no distinction between a broken arm and a broken heart. Purity culture is sexual assault. Stop it! Now!
Teens are impressionable. So impressionable, in fact, many teens desire unhealthy relationships and unhealthy sex. Abuse, violence, and Violation v.s soft love and romance may seem like a clear distinction, just like a broken arm and broken heart, but many times the line gets blurred in these books. And there for blurred for teens.
@@sundra7137 Adults are impressionable. Some impressionable, in fact many adults desire unhealthy relationships and unhealthy sex. The truth is adults are lazy and advocate for stupidity. The problem is not with the content but the social scripts which are formed. The actual issue here is that the lines get blurred and media for that demographic does nothing to blur it. Knowledge is power, ignorance is harmful. The reality is that people don't want to deal with the fact that teenagers are sexual beings and so they advocate for policies which demonstrably fail and demonstrably do harm. Abstinence doesn't work. What does work is informing. Not going to lie this is a subject that enrages me because adults are so stupid about it. My parents thought that attempting to control and scare me from having sex as a teen worked. In reality I am damn lucky that I didn't catch anything or get someone pregnant. It took the parent of a friend sitting me down when I was 13 and having a very frank very blunt conversation with me. Because I was treated with respect and like I was not a piece of property I began behaving in safer ways. One of the things that drove me nuts as a teen was the arrogance and idiocy of adults. I was supposed to make decisions but they withheld either part or all of the information that I needed to make good decisions. We are supposed to be the mature ones. we are not supposed to close our eyes from realities that make us uncomfortable. Media directed at teens needs to deal the facts. It needs to deal with the fact that teens watch porn, it needs to deal with the fact that teens have sex, and have sexual interests. It needs to show them how to develop healthy sexual identities.
@@sundra7137 See Grasshopper Jungle by Andrew Smith as an example of what I am talking about.
There’s a difference between portraying sex and sexuality in YA and putting in straight up smut. Any sex scenes in YA should be age appropriate and should focus more on the emotional ‘coming of age’ component to it, not purely the spice. Teens can find spice themselves on ao3 or in the adult section if they want to, but I don’t think it’s right to market it straight to them, especially considering a lot of tweens also read YA.
@@shirendjorgee9320 I actually disagree for several reasons. First because "age appropriate" is meaningless. Second because they are watching porn if we like it or not. Third because you are somehow assuming that the smut they read in a book is somehow different than the smut they fantasize about.
I KNOW there's a problem because someone in my boyfriend's COLLEGE English class (one designated FOR the English major) asked if *_The Boy In The Striped Pajamas_* had spice! Absolutely baffling. It's literally about CHILDREN and an ATROCIOUS moment in history. That being said, I think it's fine to have guilty pleasure books that are not well written and just read for pure dopamine, BUT BookTok's issue is that it's crossing lines it shouldn't like in the above example, and also by encouraging young girls to fantasize about bad people doing bad things (totally not the same as the Bee Dee Ess Emm (typed out for the algorithm) which involves consent and communication) and by polluting people's minds with a p*rn add*ction like many people are saying. It's fine to enjoy it every so often, but when it's all you do and all you think about it's an issue---especially when you get creepy about kids and history.
I wish for everyone to find someone who looks at them like this cat looks at its owner 😭🫶
10:37 - To be fair... teens could also be asking if something is spicy or not. And spice doesn't necessarily mean being super explicitly detailed, it just means actually on-page rather than fade-to-black/skip-to-after/off-page/implied or not even happening at all or whatever. Buut yeahh. Still. 😅🙃🫣👀😶😅