This is a comprehensive first look at MoErgo's keyboard, the Glove80. It's very customizable, has an incredibly well thought out design, and currently the most ergonomic prebuilt keyboard on the market, hands down.
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My Glove80 ZMK Config:
github.com/darksinge/glove80-...
Alternative Layout Editor:
nickcoutsos.github.io/keymap-...
github.com/nickcoutsos/keymap...
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Product links:
SmallRig Articulating Arm: amzn.to/3QYwI5q
SmallRig Super Clamps: amzn.to/47cIvCU
C-Clamps for desk mount: amzn.to/49zweKj
WARNING: Magnetic USB-C adapters like the one I use in this video have a small chance of damaging connected devices, use at your own risk!
USB-C Magnetic Adapters: amzn.to/3MI6iT1
Chapters
0:00 - Intro
1:27 - Voyager, Adv360 Pro comparisons
3:15 - Overview of features
4:01 - Unboxing impressions
4:52 - Build quality
6:30 - Typing experience
7:53 - Keycaps
8:22 - Keywells
10:11 - RSI on Glove80 vs Kinesis Adv360
11:49 - Thumb cluster
13:24 - Keyboard height comparisons
14:38 - Tenting mechanism
16:53 - Leg wobble fix
18:02 - Battery life
19:48 - Battery life with RGB effects on
21:51 - Layout editor
24:58 - RGB effects
25:29 - Bluetooth reliability
25:45 - Portability
26:55 - Mounting system
28:29 - Mounting hardware
29:40 - Final thoughts
31:08 - Typing test
I'd like to gently point out your intermittent self-critical commentary. So I can COMPLETELY REBUKE IT. You most definitely do NOT "suck at this." You're highly articulate. You drill into the key aspects in an honest, attention-sustaining, and even hilarious way [re: "screwing" 😂] Its so damn normal to take a "long" time creating content, although you can get faster with time. And I really appreciate how much this vid helps me quickly surmise about the Glove vs. alternatives. Anywho, self-criticism is so pervasive and even glorified in our culture. My pointing this out may yield NULL. Nonetheless, I hope you seek to condition more positive self-noticing. And generally diminish the so-called "inner critic." You can become massively successful without doing this. People do it all the time. But I want you to know and enjoy who you are all along the way. For more in this, see Pete Walker's books. In any case, Cheers !
Wow, massive YES to this comment. 👏🏼 And thank you to the video creator!
Glove80 + mounting plate + trackball captain's chair is unbelievably badass. Definitely want to try that one day.
This was very comprehensive, thank you so much. I just bought it and it's in the mail (you helped me make the decision as to which one to buy). :) x
Thank you for this! It's refreshing to see a real review with things like the "q" key. So many vids on products don't go into actual detail like this, you rock!
Great video. +1 to the wife! I ordered a glove80 on the weekend so I'm very glad your latest thoughts were positive ones. I also went for the red pros in the end so my fingers are crossed they aren't too light but I'm thinking that I'll just get used to it. The other thing is that until my keychron k2 (current KB), I'd always had low profile keyboards so I might actually find the key feel is going back to something, time wise, I've used more of.
Looking forward to the comparison video!
got this keyboard a few weeks ago. this was my first ergo venture ever, glad I did my research! I really should learn zmk so that I could take a look at your keymap. I've only done simple remaps inside the editor, and it's very comfortable but there are a few keys I can't figure out where to put, like ctrl, shift, cmd. great video!
I have both Glove 80 and Adv 360 Pro. For me, Switch choices: Adv 360 Pro. Build quality: Adv 360 Pro. Tenting: Adv 360 Pro. Configuration: Glove 80. Really...Kinesis..wake up and make something better. Comfort: Glove 80 Community: Glove 80 Bluetooth connectivity: Glove 80. Kinesis...I gave up using with two computers (Yes, I'm using V3 firmware) I use Glove 80 way more now.
I like the low profile switches more, but otherwise agree with your assessment.
I went from Kinesis Advantage 2 to glove80 about 2 months ago. Just the open-source ZMK firmware over kinesis' proprietary firmware was worth the upgrade for me, every other benefit (style, switches, bluetooth, discord community) was a bonus. Barring custom keyboards, I think this is the best keyboard on the market (at least for programmers) and worth every penny. If you're on the fence, just buy it.
Did you felt any difference in typing? Which one would you recommend to someone transitioning from a standard keyboard
I can concur. Great choice.
Thanks for making this video! I have ordered a Glove80. I am used to the Logitech K860 so hope the learning curve will be manageable.
Great review! I'm looking forward to your comparison with your Voyager!
I have a lot of keyboards and this one is clearly the best one. I wished it was released sooner. I would have saved a lot of money.
Sell the others?
Was waiting for this video
Thanks for making the video. If you end up buying the Tripod Mount accessory for the Voyager, I would like to see how it turns out.
Great review, thank you
Thank you for such a comprehensive first impression. It does however stretches the envelope of a first impression :D I wonder how long your review will be. A few comments: 1. I noticed that you use a magnetic USB connector. We strongly recommend against magnetic USB connectors. We don't know of any magnetic USB connector that complies with the USB specification. Specifically, the ground pin should be the first to connect and the last to disconnect according to USB spec. If this is not observed it is very possible to damage the connected devices. 2. Regarding the tenting mechanism: it is a deliberate choice after testing just about every tenting mechanism under the sun. a. Once you have found the perfect position, you won't have to change the tenting again. However, a non-optimal tenting position is a compromise for comfort forever. So we opt for a mechanism that allows fine-tuning, since we ound from extensive experiments that even 1 or 2 degrees is enough to make a big comfort difference. b. A low typing height is critical for a neutral tilt typing position (i.e. wrist not bent upwards) on standard height desks. As such we chose a tenting mechanism that does not increase the typing height - not many mechanisms fit this requirement.
Thanks for the warning about the magnetic USB adapters, I wasn't aware they could damage connected devices! As far as video length goes for first impressions, that's just how I roll 😎
The M4 system looks pretty good! I like that it is ultimately a fine-tuned, one-and-done adjustment.
There are other mechanisms you could use that would allow fine grained adjustments without adding nuts to a wobbly screw, this kind of jank is not acceptable at this price point
Good video, as always. btw I was shocked by the father of 3 part... omg, I'm struggling with one! lol. I really liked the video, keep it up!
The struggle is real 😅
Maybe instead of overstimulating hugs, you can try to build in some automation in the house to make her life easier. I can't imagine the work she had to do to keep them kids occupied even for this 3 hr recording 🥲
I'll give a like solely for the struggle. I'm with Egel, i'm struggling with 1, though we don't have family help.
The price seems high, but compared to other split keyboard options, the value started to shine. I wonder if someone out there already copying this design...
Fantastic vid
I would definitely watch a Keymap-editor tutorial
Great video! I have been thinking of going with the glove80 in the future. Loved the breakdown. I would also love to hear your thoughts on the Keyboardio Model 100.
I had this one but I do not keep it mainly because of wrist rest
Thanks for the in-depth and articulate review.. I'm in love with my moonlander however being a person with slightly smaller hands I constantly crave the wells as I simply cannot access it as designed. Much to think about as I save up for the next thing... Also yes, I hate being "the keyboard guy" in my place of work
1.1k hugs and going!
Probably the best review of this keyboard I’ve seen. I’m debating between this or the advantage 360. I’m a big gamer, how does the glove80 perform? Is there any lag given that it has to use Bluetooth all the time for the right side?
This video has actully been the most convincing sell for me, I think the criticism really helps me believe the praise now it's only a matter of finding the money for it haha
I got one of these for myself for Christmas and after getting really used to it I sprung for the quick release mounting plates and made a really nice captains chair. it took a lot of thought and experimenting but I managed to get it with a bit of wood and hose clamps. I love my new ergo chair so much its just amazing with this keyboard. my only complaint is that the bluetooth dongle for my pc needs to be literally within line of sight so I can't be wireless and partially under my desk I have to be completely visible to the dongle which is really really annoying, but regardless this keyboard is the shit. the rgb will kill the battery very quickly don't even bother with that lol.
I was going to mention dactyl manuform keyboards when you said there were only two concave key-well boards, but then you said on the market haha
Thanks for this. I’ve been wondering about the voyager vs the Glove. I’m looking to make my own while funds are tight. Honestly, moErgo if you’re listening: I’d love a less-expensive Glove40 similar to a Hillside or Corne, but with same keywell and good tenting options. Oh and Sunset switches. Thanks for all you do!
I would love a glove42 or a glove44, with wireless, and the deep keywell, and the low profile switches. However, I would prefer a more extreme wrist tent or tripod quick mounts. I also could do without the wristrests. and at least a 3 button thumb cluster.
@@betterlifeexe4378 They offer tripod mounting options and the PALM-rest is detachable. The lack of sunset switches is the only real downside i think, but they have an option to buy it unsoldered so you can just add whatever you want. I am very happy with the pro reds though so i dont have a problem.
Really looking fwd to hearing about a comparison with the other brands out there. For such a Niche market $400 keyboards i would say im not in the market. But my hope is that all keyboards transition to whatever is most functional for Humans and if this was $100-200, id probably buy it.
Please do a video on the alternative you’re using to the MoErgo layout builder. I have the Glove80 and would love a more intuitive/less power user friendly interface.
Hey!! I've been absolutely loving your channel and just ordered my glove 80 earlier this week. I'm hoping to build my own mounting plates with some acrylic sheet I've got laying around, and I was curious if you'd be able to share / upload the measurements for your DIY mounting plates :) It would be much appreciated! I'm hoping to get started on the DIY project before the keyboard arrives. Thank you so much!!
I currently have a Dygma Raise and I’m thinking about repurchasing for my Mac. My shortlist: Dactyl, Voyayer and this one. And I’ve never tried a well. Choices, choices
An issue I have with this keyboard is it will slide around on your desk if you place it on a desk mat. It’s too light for the rubber feet to get a good grip in that situation. However, removing the desk mat and having it placed on the desk surface itself resolved that issue. I’m curious for you to review the Dygma Defy keyboard. Also, which do you prefer? The voyager or the glove?
8:00 cool, didn't know about MCC, looks like a cylindrical cut, like the ones on steno keycaps, contrast with the spherical cut MBK or flat top used on some laptop keyboards.
Would be nice to see indexing on the adjustment legs so you can match them on each side.....or be able to get back to original position if you experiment with different angles.
Good review, one thing to note about your pinky reaching issue is that its specific to you. Without giving you a formal diagnosis it looks like you don’t use your wrist flexor muscles which would lead to issues with using your pinky.
Absolutely! RSI is very specific to the individual. Interesting observation about my wrist flexor muscles, I'll have to look into this.
Makes sense. But yeah you can tell by how you move your hand around. Basically the outer joint on your wrist has no tension from the lack of flexion in your wrist. No tension there means the outer part of your hand and pinky have no stability which is why it feels hard to reach
Do you use an ergo mouse? If so, make a vid on those too please! :D Much appreciated
Currently buying the hardware to mount this keyboard to my desk 🎉 ✏️ You forgot to add the 1/4" female female adapter to the amazon list, the one that is used between the c clamp and arm
Hey 👋 Really enjoy your videos, and (very) recently purchased a glove80 myself to use for software dev. Would be very interested to see you do a run through of your glove80 keymap if you've spent much time customising it. Trying to work out what layout to crib from when making my own, without having to start from the absolute beginning and sinking 10s of hours into it before I get proficient. I've seen a few others that look good, but would be curious to hear more about how you settled on yours and what's important to you. I see you linked your git repo for it, but even so.
Hey, thanks for the video. I can confidently say you are the reason I decided to purchase a glove80. I'm on macOS and use it primarily for software dev as well. Would love a video like this in the future.
Thank you, for this video! I really appreciate you taking the time and effort! I've been programming for the last 20 years and I've just started experiencing RSI symptoms. Your videos are very helpful. Glove80 and the Voyager both seem to be great solutions. I love the idea about the keywells. However I've been thinking recently that the Voyager having less keys might actually be better for my symptoms, as stretching would be even less than with the Glove80. Do you agree?
For me, stretching is less on the Glove80 because of the concave keywell, but the smaller layout of the Voyager results in overall less finger travel. Either keyboard would be an improvement, but for different reasons. If your symptoms are really bad, the Glove80 is probably the safer bet. Otherwise, I'd get whichever board speaks to you the most.
@@ifcodingwerenatural Than you for the advice! To be honest I love how the Voyager looks and the hot swap capability! I printed the layout and made a cardboard version of it just to try out if I would be able to reach the keys comfortably. I am happy I did it because that was the only way to notice that my pinkies are not able to reach the key above the home row without also moving my whole hand. Maybe it would’ve been easier if they had used choc spacing instead of MX. Anyway, my heart wants the Voyager, but my reasoning points towards the Glove80. I can’t afford to stop working right now, so I reckon the wise decision would be to go with the Glove80. Also this seems to be a shorter journey to an RSI free workday, given that I would need to find a proper way to tent the Voyager as well as adequate palm support for it. I really feel under pressure to find a solution for my RSI fast. I would really have preferred to go ZSA and have been struggling with my dislike for the Glove80 tenting design and how bulky it is when packed. Thank you once again for your time and your reply! All the best to you! P.S. Loved the “1 hug per like idea” !
Great video! I'm pretty hype for this. Not sure I'm ready for that $ tag but I could see it happening. Do you have an opinion on linear vs tactile for ergonomics? I've seen the debate that tactile can be better at keeping people from bottoming out so I'm not sure what I should be using.
My bet is that actuation force matters more than whether or not the switches are linear or tactile. If comparing a linear vs tactile switch with the same gf, I doubt the difference would matter enough to be noticeable.
Hey, you're using the same magnetic usb-c 'trick' I do. Very cool, and makes swapping or taking your cabled keyboards sweet and easy. Sigh.. I hemmed and hawed over which to get, and I took too so much time waffling, and weirdly I saw a HHKB on sale for $50 off, so I dove at that. So now I gotta wait and pace myself again, for these two. Great review, only gonna make me struggle more to try not to spend money like it grows from trees..
The struggle is real. If I got all the keyboards I currently want to try, I’d easily be out $2,000 😮💨.
Maybe an improvement for the tenting legs would just be increasing thread diameter? So the screw-turn height increment is larger? I'm sure they must've considered this, maybe it's just less good of a couple, more wobbly. But then the o-ring clamp-down could patch that back up?
How do you use your mouse when using mounting kit ?
Thanks for the overall review can you do it also for Dygma defy and compare which one will you recommend
If Dygma Labs sent one to me, I'd take a look, but my keyboard budget is overdrawn at this point.
Over 9,000 !!!! :D
Someone noticed!
@ifcodingwerenatural I can't believe there weren't like 10 more comments about it, lmao
The right side battery drain issue is a known issue I believe. There are steps to fix it on Discord. I don't know why they haven't fixed it for V2 version...
Hope you'll get a chance to review the Dygma Defy. Would love to hear your thoughts on its ergonomics and software. Alluminum build and Thumbcluster especially looks promising, though I probably would prefer a low profile option like the Glove80 (always used normal Cherry style keyboards, only recently tried a low profile one (Sharkoon PureWriter) to see if I could live with Chocs on the Glove80, and have to say, Cherry now feels a bit clumsy to me in comparison).
Nice first look, would be interesting to hear your opinions on the "Dygma Defy" keyboard.
Personally I'd much prefer a heavier build version - preferably aluminum. At least heavy enough to not have to worry about the Glove80 to slide around on a table mat. Also, a purchase option with black key caps right away would be nice. Unfortunate, that it has no per key backlight settings, but understand that it is a ZMK limitation. Other than that it looks like a winner.
A lot of review videos and comments speak about issues with pain of various kinds with different keyboards. If this is you, look into hand stretches and exercises for carpal tunnel relief whether you have CT or not. Maintaining strength ans flexibilty is critical to thwart these issues. Quite often the pain and discomfort is a result of a lack of strength in the hand and forearm combined with long term fixed hand positions.
how do you type curly braces { } and square brackets [ ] on this thing?
have you ever been interested in checking out a Dygma Keyboard? Like the new Defy?
hey, can i ask you something? do you crack your wrists, and does that help your rsi?
Does it support chords? In other words can you, for example, map pressing J and K simultaneously to emitting a Backspace.
Yes, but they're called combos in ZMK.
Thank you for a good review, but there is always a "but", the palms should not lie on the stand when typing is active, it was not invented by me, but by such unknown companies as Kinesis: The integrated palm supports reduce stressful bending of the wrist and provide a convenient place to rest your hands when you are not actively typing. Microsoft: Keep your wrists in line with your forearms. Do not use wrist rest areas while typing. Also, according to the rules, you need to clamp the modifier with the opposite hand, the only case when this is impossible is when the hand is on the mouse, but what prevented you from reprogramming the keyboard there so that you don't have to stretch and suffer?
Product with that price shoudn't have any "cosmetic issues" ;)
Facts
If I'm dropping that kind of money on a keyboard, it better be a pretty motherfucker.
I was debating between the Glove80 and hte Dygma Defy. The problem with the Glove80 is the thumb cluster design. You have to reach forward to press the top keys, which is difficult. On the Defy you curl the thumb in towards the hand, and all keys are within easy reach. A pity because I am a big fan of the wells, but this time I'll be getting the Defy.
neighbor and i get a bit of keyboards, we both engineers. short version he has glove and he just ordered a defy after using my defy. i will not be ordering a glove80. he might return it, it is almost 400 usd
I have the Defy, and while the glove80 cluster does look worse, I disagree that all keys are easy to reach on the Defy. The bottom 3 thumb keys are reachable, but you would definitely develop RSI if you regularly pressed them - I just have them set for macros and layer locking
what was conected in the usbc in the voyager?
It's a magnetic usb-c adapter.
I just have one question based on the last 15 seconds... if u are typing like that, in what moment do use ur mouse!?, how do u use it?
Yeah, using the mouse like this is quite the difficulty tbh. I love typing with it mounted, but it makes using the mouse a pain.
someone please comment; is this keyboard also versatile enough for gaming with traditional WASD ? I could just switch to my wooting when gaming, but constantly swapping keyboards is annoying.. Also, the low-profile caps make me sceptical, because I make more typing errors with other low-profile boards.
In his most recent video comparing the Voyager, Moonlander, Kinesis, and Glove 80, he mentioned that using WASD on the glove80 was slightly uncomfortable for him. I don’t own it so I can’t comment on it.
Funny, so the o-rings act like shock absorbers. I didn't understand that on the site, only makes sense with a physical demonstration.
In Europe I can buy 1 Advantage 360 or two Glove80s. Glove80 it is!
Advantage 360 is 609,- Advantage 360 Pro is 649,- Glove80 is 375,-
I wonder why companies keep getting the thumb key placement wrong. No reason to have a keys so far away from the thumbs. Might as well not include those far off keys and make the keyboard less wide. Or perhaps they could "surround" your thumb with one key to the right and the left of your thumb at a 90 degree angle, and one key that you press down on.
i really got worried for 0.5s when you said your wife is constantly bothered by "getting punched". HUUUGGEEE relief when you said "by her children"
Did i miss a section where you talked about using the keyboard, how it was, etc ?
6:30 - 13:24
does them work in linux ?
Absolutely! It works without any issues (I use arch btw)
2:57 Shout out to all the amazing wives out there :) (Mine included x1000) !
Had mine for nearly a year now - it's not perfect, but I can't use anything else.
In the last shot of the video, is the keyboard chair-mounted?
Nope, mounted on my desk with the C clamps.
all the questions about reviewing the dygma defy make me think that these are fake comments from dygma trying to advertise their board. that‘s ridiculous
You know, that thought has crossed my mind...
Or from lost bois like myself who want to see someone actually knowledgeable give a nuanced review of it not just “this is Keyboard Jesus”. I am looking to potentially get one but the more i lurk in their discord, the more i see issues that i have not seen in any full review like abysmal battery life, unstable tenting, inconvenient switching from bt to rf to wired, connectivity issues, apparently not working with KVM’s and some weird cable specification limitations just to name a few. Now for someone completely in the dark about anything other than a regular off the shelf board it’s hard to asses the validity and/or severity of these concerns. Which is where a review of a similar depth to this one would probably clear most of that up So yes please do a review and no I am not a dyma person even though that’s a exactly what a dygma person would say 😆
seems not hotswap?
wheres the += button
I am wondering why not many content creators review Dygmas keyboards…
$$$
> You will not find a more ergonomic keyboard than the Glove80, currently on the market ThePrimeagen in shambles!
Dygma Defy is what I've elected for as my long term ergo commitment. Built like a tank, and I haven't been a fan of welled prototypes I've built and played with.
Since a few weeks I also own a Dygma Defy. I can really recommend it, as it feels like a Ferrari for type writers.
I'm still adapting to my Defy as my first split keyboard as well as my first keyboard with columnar layout and thumb clusters. A lot to get used to! The one thing I can say for certain at this point is that the build quality is fantastic. Really solid feeling, even while tented, and the wrist pads are really nice too.
they need some sort of configuration tool that shows an image of the keyboard and you select a key with your mouse and press a button on your other keyboard to have that programmed onto the new keyboard. i did built my own iris keyboards many years ago, and i didn't know anything about github or qmk or any code writing at all and it just sucked so bad it took me month to always fiddle arround after work with that shit that i am totally not interested in. since my layout is a german, very non default, layout there was no way to use anyone elses config. I don't get it, my 10 $ knockoff brand "gaming" mouse has a software included that can handle your inputs and just bind them to buttons of the mouse. for such an expensive device they have to add software that can do that or they gonna miss/frustrate many customers
😆 WPM "Over 9,000"
Characorder when
I don't think I have the stomach for that one haha
The RGB looks offensive AF
Shout out to ur wife she sounds like a real one bro
I don't know, your note about the tenting solution feels a bit disproportionate. Yes steps are easy, but they're easy because *they limit user choices*. You don't get to adjust the height to better match your needs. In your opinion then, as you presented it (just to make the point, I know you wouldn't agree with this), the best tenting solution is NO tenting solution, since you don't even have to do anything to get the "proper" (designer-imposed) tenting angle. Also I feel like you didn't appropriately attribute how awesome that tenting solution is in terms of being able to *CUSTOM MOUNT* the keyboard to the wonderfully ergonomic position of onto your armrest. Is there any other keyboard on the market that provides that possibility? Is there? It really opens the door to tons of possibilities by bridging into the camera mount market. That's really really huge. Also it's theoretically a onetime cost. I don't know, it just seemed unfair & excessive, especially since you didn't present these caveats which I think you probably DID think of, but for some reason left out just so that your criticism held more weight. Otherwise great review! Thanks so much. I by contrast actually liked that you kept moving the keyboard around. I can tune-into you talking while getting a bunch of angles for the keyboard and how it physically handles. I disagree with that other guy who criticized you for that.
I welcome comments like yours!... unlike that other guy 😆. Anyway, to clarify my thoughts on the tenting solution, I freely admit my criticism was based on personal preferences. For those who want no compromises in ergonomics, then yeah, I'm dead wrong. But I'm a common peasant among the masses who'd gladly accept more convenience in exchange for limited choices. I originally planned to go way deeper into the mounting options, but the video would have become way too long. I'm a little surprised you thought my criticisms were "unfair & excessive", especially when I praised the mounting system in this video. I say what I think and don't purposefully omit information for the sake of adding more weight to a point I'm trying to make. But, that's also why I enjoy comments like yours so much. It's incredibly hard to present clear information while simultaneously diving into the nuances, so people like you help fill in the gaps and balance things out. Thanks!
I disagree with his take on gaming. It works just fine
Try the Dygma Defy
One thought. I’ve always preferred male reviewers because they’re efficient. This was an exception which I didn’t expect.
Ok sorry mr monkeytype html inspector
seems like you cant use this is you have abit of fingernails. stop trying to replace the $12 logitech k120 keyboard. thats the be all and end all of keyboards. nothing else can beat it. its $12. the spacings are perfect. its $12. its a full keyboard that can be smashed during games and still works. its $12. last me almost a decade. its $12. wired and totally no lag. did i mention its $12?
I'm 12 minutes in the video, and he didn't typed anything... come on man
fr
Video production feedback: stop moving the keyboard around every 5 seconds, it is impossible to really get a good look at it because you pick it up and spin it around so much.
Where were you at 1:27?
@@musicman24X Writing this comment.
I'm guessing you watched 5 seconds of the 30 minute video, made this comment, and then stopped watching
Videos can be paused, last I checked
Liked for the wife
Fine, take my like and hug your wife.
Careful before buying, it's buggy with many operating Systems, their definition of working is android Smartphone. The support's language usage gives off a scammer-like vibe.
eh, kinda cheapo build