Forensic Psychiatrist REACTS To DAHMER | Doctor Analyzes Monster: Jeffrey Dahmer Story | Dr Elliott
2022 ж. 26 Қыр.
157 969 Рет қаралды
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This Doctor REACTS video is watching a few episodes of Monster: The Jeffrey Dahmer Story. This is the new Ryan Murphy series based on the TRUE STORY of cannibal and serial killer, Jeffrey Dahmer. These clips analyze some of the key mental health scenes including concepts of psychopathy, neurodiversity, childhood trauma, medications during pregnancy and much more.
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Evan Peters did an amazing job portraying Jeffrey.. he is a great actor for anyone who has seen the American Horror Stories
So true. They chose the perfect actor to play him.
@@jaimereynolds258 Agree 100%. I think that show didn't compromise on showing us just how tense things got from his victim's perspective. It was exceptionally well done. My only critique is that they could've condensed the last two episodes.
He really is amazing as an actor. I've often thought he would be good at playing Andy Warhol
And he perfected the Ohio accent.
I genuinely hope he’s okay. After Heath Ledger, we need to offer our support to people that play roles like this.
After he was given a life sentence he did an interview that’s worth looking into. He’s honest and calm despite everything he’s talking about. He also fully takes responsibility for his actions which is interesting
Does he take responsibility or does he just not deny what can't be denied? I haven't seen the interview and plan but but serial killers tend to later rather than the former.
@@LiShuBen I believe he did took responsibility because he told the investigators about his first victim back in Ohio, which they would've never known.
@@LiShuBen he said it’s the least he could do is be honest and help them locate all the victims and say exactly what happened …unlike Gacey smug ass who denied till the end
The problem is that his 'taking responsibility' doesn't actually mean anything. To him, the people he brutalised were objects and he wasn't truly remorseful because he simply wasn't capable of it. So ultimately his reasons for admitting what he did can't be viewed through a lens of taking responsibility the same way someone who feels remorse would. Thats interesting in and of itself though.
@@itsonlysound they were more than objects cause of the ritualistic procedures after he killed them
Thank you Elliott for the explanation you gave on autism and empathy. I used to date someone that knew I was on the spectrum and told her parents. They told her that autistic people can't feel empathy. And when she told me about that and she actually believed it it broke my heart so much. I doubted myself for so long because of it hearing you talk about it meant a lot to me
I have 2 boys with autism they are loving and sure have empathy ❤️
My daughter is autistic. She is overly empathic. My partner has aspergers also and misses social ques. I see their actions every day and have taken to studying this to help them both. I worry for my daughter as she is so worrisome about her friends and even bullies it exhausts her. How they feel and what they think. She is only 5 and worries bout what they all feel. I will keep on trying to understand their world. But auties and definitely not unfeeling people. They are amazing.
I'm autistic, and every autistic person I know is more compassionate and empathetic than most neurotypical people. I'm really sad that someone made you question yourself. Being neurospicy in a NT world can be really hard. I'm still working on accepting who I am as an autistic person (diagnosed ASD in 2019 aged 35!). I hope you're able to continue to feel more empathy for yourself and other people's misjudgements don't stay with you any longer. Xx
Dahmer's mind is very interesting, to say the least. Unlike most killers, he doesn't try to push the blame onto anything or anyone. He just accepts that he did it. He seems almost disgusted with himself but not exactly remorseful, if that makes sense.
Nah most seriel killers will accept what they've done. They want bragging rights. Or at least the attention from it. Dahmer kinda enjoyed the attention after getting caught. He was only disgusted because he wasn't really into the killing itself - but wasn't remorseful because he needed to do it to fulfil his desires imo
You can tell he hated himself and he was aware of it
@@melissagoode151 He said he couldn't express how sorry he was for what he did to his victims and family, he was remorseful.
His mom's drug addiction during pregnancy was also one of the reasons what made Jeffrey's brain was so broken. And i firmly believe it does make some of the impacts.
@@Sired2Klaus After the first killing everything came tumbling down in his psyche, he tried to drown it by drinking but couldn’t. Blood calls for more blood, he became a serial killer.
I'm glad you're speaking up on behalf of autistics. Misunderstanding around their inner emotional world and even more so their empathy are still very much around. I'm not autistic, so please listen mainly to the people who ARE. But I have lived with and I love many folks on the autism spectrum, and so many of them feel empathy _deeply_ and proper hurt for other people or sense their emotions in ways that I don't even think I can. Even though I do consider myself to be quite an empathetic being. Yes, in some cases empathy may look different in someone with autism - that doesn't mean it isn't there. Also: sheesh, imagine being an actor and playing such a role. That's gonna leave an impression for sure. I hope the actors playing this had some counseling as well.
As an autistic person I approve this message and especially shoutout you for using all the right language around autism. That’s so rare with people I meet lately especially some people in KZhead comments section’s explaining the spectrum to me in a way that is not just wrong but actively harmful so yeah once again, thank you a lot Sister the Sister.
@@Roneish1996 I'm glad you approve, because it's always tricky speaking about what you don't experience yourself. So I hope I'm not one of those well-meaning neurotypicals who still get it wrong 😉 It's just that it has always made me angry when people say that autism means you don't have empathy. Or - even worse - that y'all are incapable of love. That's not just factually wrong, it's hurtful and it perpetuates a harmful stereotype.
To put it shortly : Austic people lack empathy because they dont understand. Psychopaths lack empathy because they dont care
I am an autistic person too, but when I’m around people I am very stoned faced, monotone, with no inflection in my voice but I’m very emotional and feel empathy deeply. It’s sucks because when someone tells me something bad that has happened to them I come across as if I don’t care or am being “fake” because I try to act or look like a “normal” person. I’m very emotional but I don’t know how to show it on my face. I often think of others before myself, so yes it is true we do feel empathy deeply! Thanks for this 🙂
Before I got diagnosed, I thought I couldn't be autistic because of this exact reason.
I notice that people that analyze him never talk about how much the role of alcoholism played.
I’m an alcoholic probably worse than him I never killed anybody or went to jail Jeffrey was just evil
@@Celestialnighthawk They aren’t saying that alcoholics kill people, they’re saying that alcohol played a role in making Jeffrey more violent. Obviously he was a psychopath who had something wrong with his brain from the start, but the alcohol definitely made it worse.
@@Certifiedspiderhater i don’t agree alcohol doesn’t make you more violent if you have violent tendencies it makes you relaxed and happy for some time then it inevitably makes your depression worse but idk im not Jeffrey maybe something was actually wrong with his brain
@@Celestialnighthawk You do realize your experience isn’t the only experience right? My uncle used to be an alcoholic, he is a very calm, loving person, but when he was drunk he was very violent and angry. Do some research, alcohol can do lots of bad things to people. Maybe it doesn’t for you, which is a good thing, but for others it can seriously make them dangerous.
@@Certifiedspiderhaterhe wasn't a psychopath, he was a sociopath
my mother is autistic and how I have to communicate with her sometimes is that "I know you're trying to do [whatever positive thing she's trying to do] but what it's actually doing is making me hurt/upset/frustrated/angry, so I understand your intent, but I would like you to stop" and then she gets upset because she is now aware that she's hurting me when all she was trying to do was help and support me. She understands my feelings and can read that I'm upset, but she doesn't understand why it's upsetting or what she's doing that's making me upset. I think that's the biggest struggle I've noticed with people who are autistic is that they understand that something happened but they don't understand why it happened which other people translate as lacking empathy. It's very much not fair.
That sort of is like me, though I usually know what I did to upset someone and then I get frustrated with myself and lash out because I don't know how to express myself. In my case what makes it worse is that I become bothered very easily by so many things and when I get annoyed or frustrated it is 10x more intense than when the average person gets annoyed or frustrated. I can become very anxious and angry over small things, like certain noises. What makes it maddening is that I can't express to other people how it feels and then that makes me even angrier and when I get like that that is when my empathy vanishes. It returns when I can think clearly again. Depression also has an effect on empathy and I suffer from clinical depression. I take medication for that and for my anxiety and OCD. Sometimes my empathy for others is so intense I have to block it out, because it becomes overwhelming and just makes me depressed that people in this world have to suffer. I don't want people to suffer and even thinking about it right now has me almost crying.
I feel like this is one of the universal factors of people on the spectrum including myself. We want to connect, the same as many people. How we do so varies so much and it can cause pain sometimes if it crashes with someone else's love language, boundary setting or even unwittingly physically and mentally hurt them and we didn't realise. And man oh man do we get pain from the world itself. Social dynamics that seem impossible to follow the logic of and only serve one party, and definitely not us. Sensory issues that might as well be direct attacks for the amount of physical and mental pain they cause. Regular humilation, lack of understanding or even basic respect or empathy. I could go on. The issue and I have found this in myself and people I support. Our unwitting behaviour is just that. Without malice, often with horror when we realised we did cause harm and just needing a little light theory of mind to fix. It's hard sometimes because everyone needs something different. As a mixed race autistic person I'm constantly thrown by code switching. One thing is absolutely cool in of my heritages and absolutely taboo in another. The obvious pain causers are the same but I have started to mallet both of cultures with their hypocrisies. In long short, I hate from my training standpoint and my own experience having us lumped in with other diagnosis where a person truly may struggle with any sense of theory of mind. It's a different set of medical conditions. I appreciate people like the initial poster because I can imagine it is a lot of hard work on both ends.
I wouldn't be surprised if Dahmer was autistic. (I say that as an autistic person myself) I wasn't diagnosed until I was well into adulthood, but in high school we watched a Dahmer movie in psychology class, and I was somewhat disturbed by how much I felt like I could relate to him. And I didn't know why! There was just something I could never put my finger on, but it made it into a pretty terrifying time, panicking about if I was going to grow up to be a serial killer. Eventually I got passed it, and many years later I took a single college level psych class in Criminal Psych - Psychopathic Minds. And asked if I could write my personal essay on Dahmer (not one of the choices we were given), permission was granted, and since it was an essay meant to have a personal component I was able to use that high school experience to write probably the best essay I've ever written. It wasn't for another handful of years before I got my autism diagnosis. I still don't know why I felt how I did about Dahmer in high school. But looking back on that now through an autism lens that very possibly could have been it. I just might have been seeing those little things that no one else sees unless you know it's there.
I find your comment very interesting to me. I also felt a relation to dahmer when I first watched documentaries about him. I over analyzed everything I did and felt for months in fear I was going to follow that path. I have never been diagnosed with autism but have felt strongly the past few years that I am on the spectrum. I also reflect on it now and realize a lot of my lack of empathy and emotion was due to the abusive relationship. I was suppressing and dissociating from all of that too.
Same thing with me. But I see what my son could’ve become if I hadn’t been his mom… very troubling. I was able to steer my son’s interest from knives and cisors, since he was about 3. I would wake up to big melons cut in half with a steak knife on the kitchen table when he was barely 4 (he somehow managed to have never cut himself with his experiments). He also cut a kid’s cheek with cisors at age 3, at daycare. I was at time hard with him (never physically, but I mean I’ve never let him go away with any of his crap) and I’m glad I did. Consistence, coherence, we’re detrimental. He’s turning 15 in a couple weeks, and I couldn’t have dreamed of having a better version of him. I was able to understand him since he was young, because he got it, autism, from me. To me, I see in Dahmer an attraction to action/reaction situations, a lot a testing trying to predict the end result, being part clueless but interested, still, and part oppositional too. My son at 3.5yo sprayed my perfumes and air freshener in his brother’s eyes when he was not even 1.8yo. He burned his freaking corneas! All that because of a “residual” unresolved curiosity from when he scratched his brother’s cornea when he was 2 weeks old. But with him, the first diagnosis was severe adhd (2.5yo), and it’s when he started medication at 3 that we were able to “see” the autism.. the intensity of the adhd symptoms were masking the most obvious signs of autism (well, as much as I could tell). It’s all about impulsivity, but without empathy, it’s hard to ask them to reflect and rethink about their impulsivity and the bad consequences. It’s started with empathy, and for that to happen, he needed a very, very STRONG bond with at least one person. Luckily he got me, but sadly, Dahmer didn’t have anyone. Yes, That kid made me see sh*t!!! He’s good now, and I wouldn’t change him for the world. His love is the purest I’ve ever seen ❤
That’s very interesting and unfortunately adding to the creepy thread here, but i had a tremendous fear of becoming a murderer as well. I used to have horrendous night terrors every single night for years in my early twenties about it. People normally have fears of being murdered where i was utterly mortified i would become one. I always felt a little different. Not much really, and I know everyone feels unique but i don’t know, i felt like i was seeing out of my eyes differently than everyone else. Like, really really hyper vigilant or something. I got over much of it after i made some big changes. I don’t really know why, but it seemed that breaking up with my long term girlfriend at the time (who was and is a fantastic and beautiful person). But something huge seemed to be telling me to make that change or some serious changes. And i did and those night terrors went away almost immediately. I still fear it coming back, and some of that hyper vigilance turned into being overly paranoid and whatnot but i am really glad i was on top of my own shit and took care of it. I think sometimes people just need a big change that doesn’t really make sense. I really didn’t need to break up with her. (It was mutual too, don’t worry) but something in me was not ready, didn’t feel right to be with her anymore. Very odd, and i wish everyone knew this but it worked.
The voice... the addiction. I too thought it could be that he was on the spectrum as well. With a culmination of other things that lead him down the path he did. I don't think he lacked empathy. He felt bad for the families. You could say he didn't understand his feelings and emotions, obsessed over them but ultimately didn't know how to healthily express him.
While he does show many signs of autism (mannerisms, social difficulty etc) it's important to remember he likely had multiple psychological/behavioural issues contributing to him ending up a serial killer.
My father is diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder. He displayed so many of those traits when I was growing up. He was a severe alcoholic. Growing up with him as a single parent on the 70’s & 80’s was traumatic.
Im sorry you went through this ❤
@@debbiemerls thank you. It wasn’t easy
Wow that must have sucked! I hope ur ok.
@@michelleespino9814 I’m a work in progress. And it sucked big time
Seems like such an understatement for so many of us with traumatic childhoods thanks to our parent(s) to simply say it was traumatic. 😟
The Behavior Panel analyzed Jeffry and Lionel during their interview and they had the feeling that Jeff’s father was a huge trigger and not a great guy. It’s worth a watch. They are four behavior analysts with their own nuances.
I find his father odd. He talks about his love for his son.. Ok. Normal parent. I get that.. But i just can't get over the fact i feel there is something wrong with that man.
@@aa.4639 I really suggest watching it. They had some very interesting things to say about the dad and his behavior
@@sarahhollister150 I will! Thank God i'm not the only onw that thinks he's off. Many people praise him and talk highly of him.. I never could.
Thanks for the tip, I'll look into that! In the tv-show - which of course can pick and chose how they depict the persons - he strikes me as somebody who is the classic 1970ies /80ies mainstream male: you deal with problems by deciding on whether you need to solve or ignore them, and if they need to be solved, you decide on the solution. Not by sitting down with your wife and talking *and listening* , because that's girl stuff. Raising the kids? Doubly so. I looked up the wikipedia article, and I was a bit shocked how many early warnings there were - not so much the interest in dead animals, but how far Jeffrey took that. And the alcohol problems starting as early as 14 years old - two intelligent parents and none of them doing a thing about that? That screams neglect.
Hi I’m a year late to this but yes, his father was a piece of crap. People love to pin everything on Jeffrey’s mom because she was OBVIOUSLY not a very stable person… but they forget that his father seemingly did absolutely nothing to compensate for it. From all the reading I’ve done about Jeffrey (including the FBI files), it seems his dad wasn’t capable of showing Jeffrey any emotions aside from disappointment. Obviously not everyone who grows up in a dysfunctional family turns out like Jeffrey, but I have a hard time believing that the dynamics between his parents, and his parents and him, didn’t play a rather big part in this particular case. And other adults around him didn’t step in, either, even when he developed a literal drinking problem at the age of 14. It’s just a very tragic story, even before Jeffrey went on to commit all his heinous crimes.
I'm curious about his mother's diagnosis. They mentioned postpartum depression in the series, but she had tried to kill herself and was taking medication for anxiety before she even got pregnant, so she definitely had something. Also, taking all of those drugs while pregnant couldn't have been good for her boys.
I think that's a misguided judgement without knowing the mothers medical hx and medications the risk vs benefits may have been high. Suicidal harm could harm the pregnancy etc.
She was emotionally absent for sure, thats always the main cause for a damaged child. If there is no unconditional love from a mother to a child, than there is no bonding and the child feels rejected. Main problem for low self esteem, self hatred and lack of love and developing of sociopathic behavior. She could have been bipolar, or borderline.
@@annaohare8263 I totally disagree. The medications listed in this clip alone are way too dangerous for a pregnant woman. Plus they literally show her ODing while pregnant. Granted, this is a fictionalized version, so I don’t know if she really was taking these drugs, but I can safely say that there was no benefit greater than the risk based on what is portrayed on the show. The fact that she almost died while pregnant is proof enough that the risk was too great. She had an undiagnosed problem and they threw drugs at her. No one cared about the risk to her or her children, aside from the father. If you watch the show, she does try to commit suicide while pregnant by taking too many pills (it isn’t explained if that was intentional or not), so clearly the pills weren’t the answer.
Moao-l gene is completed by the mother. It is said it passes down psychopathy. I do believe Jeff dahmer got it from his MOM not dad.
@@Kristine_202 she wasn't pregnant when they showed her OD, Jeff's younger brother was already crying in the crib when Jeff found her
This is a difficult one to tackle, I was a baby gay when Dahmer was captured and it was the height of the AIDS epidemic. I found that time to be very difficult to trust going home with people from the club and it took a long time to find my family.
As a black queer male currently in my mid-20s, I can’t imagine how I would feel at the time. I refuse to watch this show because it’s far too triggering for me. However I’m so glad you were able to find your family.
What Dahmer did is besides the point and so is being gay. You should always be wary of going home with a stranger from the "club". You are rolling the dice each and every time. Thats a gamble that most people dont realize they take, each and everytme they meet a stranger. If ya go shopping for tulips in a cow field, dont be suprised when you step in shyt.
@@thefifthaceassociation don't expect responsibility from these types lmao
@@trevorclinton5692 What do you mean by "these types," and what exactly is so funny to you? Do you actually think any of this is funny, or are you just using "lmao" as punctuation?
@@thefifthaceassociation I guess you would have had to been in the scene at the time to understand the sense of danger that permeated the gay club scene in the early 90s in the Great Lakes region. We were all on heightened alert, a violent predator had been exposed and everyone that you met could have been just like him. For every person like Dahmer that was apprehended there are probably a dozen that don’t get caught.
This was really informative. I had no idea bed wetting past a certain age was lumped in with those sets of behaviors. I had a friend whose kid was resorting to being rough with animals and they told me the kid had then set fire to some furniture. I immediately urged them to get help for their kid.
As autistic I have more empathy than plenty of neurotypical people so someone linking lack of empathy with autism is actively harmful thanks for saying that Elliot. Also people trying to connect murderers with autism or other neurodivergencies is also actively harmful in the same way someone perpetuating ND traits as negative and saying that they’re all the same is super scary and I hate it when true crime people bring up that the person committing the crime is autistic or worse when they use the term Aspergers which once again isn’t a diagnostic term anymore because Asperger himself was a nazi.
Besides, wouldn't his lack of empathy/affect be more related to his personality disorders (antisocial, schizotypal)?
@@cassiepathak the affect meaning like the way he speaks/spoke? Possibly, but like the autistic affect is a thing and some people call it the autistic accent. Like I don’t completely disregard that he could have been autistic but being autistic has nothing to do with the murdering, eating and fucking of people.
Quite clearly, he was autistic. I am too, I would know.
you wouldnt know if you had more empathy
@@mcchickenmuhchicken as someone with a lot of empathy who is autistic, yes, you can tell when NT people have less empathy, it’s literally all around us everyday
This is besides the point but every time I see clips from this show, as well as when I watched it for the first time in its entirety, I’m floored by how perfectly Evan Peters managed to capture Dahmer’s tone of voice, inflection, voice frequency, etc. (Although the accent might be a bit silly at times, such as when he calls himself “E men of eeeection”, haha). Great video!
The show is very difficult to watch. I don't mean that as an insult. They just give a very vivid representation of every aspect of Dahmer's life. It is highly disturbing, but very well made.
Thank you for your videos, being both neurodiverse and gay, there are often topics you hit on that really resonate with me. This might not be the best video to post that on given the subject haha but seriously, you make my day when I see a new video posted.
Will you be doing a video about the recent conversations on true crime and the ethics of it, how it can affect families, etc?
I second this as a fantastic suggestion
100%%% it only takes a second to look at the majority of the true crime we consume is that of the death and torture of sex workers, queer people, and black and Brown people.
The Ted Brundy tapes are something I think should be analyzed. Netflix had other crime related documentaries that are worth looking into
I’m so glad you chose to go over this! I honestly wish you’d go through the whole series. And I also like that you hate they used the term “monster.” It’s honestly a weird title…Dahmer: Monster Jeffrey Dahmer. Like I get it..but still.
He was a rapist and murderer. What term should they use?
Right! It allows people to write him off as non-human, when what makes this such a compelling story, worthy of investigating, is that of course he was a human being!
THANK YOU Dr El for confirming that autistics don't have empathy challenges, that this can occur in anyone, and that challenges around autism often stem from perceptions.
Just watched the series the other day, his portrayal of Dahmer was incredible. So offputting.
Autism, all day long. I struggle with dark thoughts often. The love of my niece (no kids of my own) keeps me on the straight and narrow. If she didn't worship the ground I walk on I'm not sure where I'd be now. She makes me want to be better than I am, I feel a huge weight to not let her down.
I'm with you on the series being called ''monster'', that and ''evil'' makes me roll my eyes.
Saaame. People don't understand Jeff. 😭
it's important to note that the victims' families did NOT consent to this show being made and that netflix is profiting off of their trauma and re traumatizing them
What about the father of dahmer? Hes still alive?
Yeah, that's the main reason why I don't want to watch it. I love Evan Peters and find Dahmer endlessly interesting, but this production just feels really gross (aside from the subject matter that is)
@@royalecrafts6252 yeah, Lionel Dahmer is alive, so is Jeff's stepmother Shari... Joyce (biological mother) died in 2010 of cancer.
@@jayxfrost8987 He has a brother as well, who (for obvious reasons) changed his name.
@@JoeOConnellAllNew I know, but no one knows where he is. Or if he’s even alive... he should be he’d be like in his mid 50’s but literally anything can happen.
Truly amazing series, I've never experienced anything like it. Simultaneously haunting and heartbreaking whilst disturbingly engrossing. Very difficult to watch yet, i couldn't take my eyes off it. Bought me to tears many times. Especially watching Lionel after he learned what his son did. That and episode 6 broke me! I guess my theory is irrelevant however i reckon his brain chemistry was alerted due to his mothers addiction. Maybe with a healthy family life he would've been a normal guy. But his upbringing and the timing of his parents abandonment made him capable and able to do what he did. Did he have a choice? Of course! However he was moulded from birth
I'd be curious to hear your analysis of Lorna Morello on OITNB. There were two episodes showing her past life, and I thought it was really interesting how they built up this sweet character, who then turned out to be a stalker.
But isn't this just judging Dahmer from this netflix series? He didn't comply to the triad, he didn't comply to the general psycocothy theory. He was on the spectrum in a major way! But his intervewies show him not to be enjoying the lime light, but feeling uncomfortable and even recenting the discussion unless asked about his compulsion? I've watched all his interviews. Even the contact with his father is strained . He is a hard case to fathom. Watching this interpretation of his activities on Netflix does not answer any questions regarding his motives or goals
Precisely. What was so unfathomable and repulsive to neurotypical minds made perfect sense to his neurodivergent brain. It was probably a combination of ASD and BPD. With the understanding of ASD today and more people being identified younger, there will probably never be another Dahmer.
This show is incredible and Evan Peters deserves an Emmy!!!! Thanks for reacting to it
Crazy that victims continued to enter and stay in that apt with those terrible smells.
I found that interesting as well.
Richard Jenkins, oh my, his performance in this series was just so excruciatingly spot on.
I was around 21 when all this was unfolding back in the early 90's, it made news like no other. I saw the Jeremy Renner version twenty years ago, which was good, but this series really delves into what happened with this nutjob and the families he affected. I still remember hearing on the news when he was killed in prison, I always found it odd that he lasted that long. Good video.
I’ve seen some people blaming his mother for taking medication while she was pregnant with him. You are NOT a bad person for taking medication, psychiatric or otherwise, while you are pregnant! You are a person making the (hopefully) informed and appropriate decision to support your mental health. That is NOT a bad choice - it is healthy, and a healthy mother is always better for her child. ❤
Yeah I think it had less to do with her taking medication (which was keeping her and by extension her baby safe) and more to do with the fact that he had a family history of mental illness and was neglected/abandoned. His life was just a perfect storm of evil.
@@SjofnBM1989 his mama sure didnt help tho
Not when you going through doctors like hot cakes to get more prescriptions. Also it’s no secret that American doctors overprescribed opiates back then and still do to this day.
She was drinking, smoking and taking 26 different medications at the same time one of which is merbromate which was known very well at the time to affect pregnancy, most of the medications she was taking weren’t even legally prescribed. She had a BIG part in the events the unfortunately unfolded.
@@riordanparata4339 And that’s not okay! Just wanted to head off a dangerous message.
I wondered if you would review this show, thanks for your commentary. I had an interest in forensic psych when I started my undergrad and read about a lot of serial and spree killers, I found Dahmer's openness with police really interesting and fairly unusual.
Loved this and your channel. Keep up the great work, Doc.
I don't understand why NPD was ruled out as a diagnosis for Dahmer. He may not be overtly grandiose, but his level of entitlement and his blatant perception that his needs are far more important than the needs of others indicates a severe sense of self importance. Anyhow, there must be some clear reason this was ruled out by everyone who has studied his case. Would really appreciate an explanation for that from an expert. Thanks! ✌️ Eta: Also, his background of not getting emotional needs met from either parent (and the actual abandonment) seems to satisfy the nurture side of NPD. 🤷♀️
I love reflecting back! I do this a lot when talking with my friends about difficult stuff. It's partially because I'm hard of hearing, but also because I'm autistic and I want my understanding of the situation to be accurate. I hate when people misremember or misunderstand me.
Something for your radar "Don't f**k with cats"
Excellent breakdown. It was very interesting. Especially the pharmacological explanations. I would love to know what interventions are available for children who exhibit the Macdonald Triad behaviors.
great video. new to your channel. as a fellow medical provider i truly enjoyed your assessment here. looking forward to watching more content, keep up the great work.
I love your videos. Currently binge watching them!
I got a UWorld question (US medical board prep) correct because of your discussions of transference/counter-transference :P it is super helpful!
I'm autistic and am training to be a counsellor. That's as empathetic as you can get! I'm glad Elliot gave this correction.
I felt that the first few episodes were mostly pretty gratuitous. Once it gets into the psychology of him, his family, neighbours, the victims, their families and the cops it gets much more interesting. The episode where his neighbour talks with Jesse Jackson is very moving.
The problem is that those first few episodes exist at all. They weren't necessary and show the true motivations of the show runner.
Which is
The tension all throughout the first episode is gripping, I was glued to the screen... it also was made to introduce people to the Dahmer story on a superficial level, so that the rest of the show explains it in detail
There was nothing gratuitous about the series. It's very effective to show what he was capable of. Ryan's #1 thing about the show is that Dahmer could not be seen as someone we should be sympathetic with. Dahmer was nothing but a complete monster and it's important for the audience to know that.
@@itsonlysound I think it was important to show how fucked up he was in order to show everything else.
These videos are so interesting to me, I love criminology and forensic psychology/psychiatry!
Really great to hear your perspective on this show, really looking forward to hearing more as you watch more as we think it's a bloody good programme, albeit a hard watch
Loved the Arrested Development reference!
Interestingly, in "The Shrine of Jeffrey Dahmer" by Brian Masters (which I'm absolutely positive the people who made this extensively consulted) he describes Dahmer as "almost autistic in his lack of connection with other people". But this is the first time I've seen it discussed any further than that.
My two cents. His father insisted that Jeffrey had a happy childhood, but he didn't. His childhood was full of uncertainty, constantly facing abandonment, instability, and lack of control and power. His growing fascination and obsession with dissecting animals went unchecked and ignored. His growing problem with alcohol went unchecked and ignored. His growing introversion and violent thoughts went unchecked and ignored. His growing addiction to pornography went unchecked and ignored. His puberty and homosexuality went unchecked and ignored. His growing violence and cruelty towards living animals went unnoticed. Then, when Jeffrey was at his most vulnerable, when he finished high school with poor results and no plan for the future, both his parents abandoned him in their family home to be by himself for 3 months. He lacked power and control and fantasized about having complete power, control, and dominance over a hitch hiker - to him a nobody. This allowed his sick twisted desires, fantasies, suppressed emotions and thoughts to fester, along with his alcoholism, leading to his first murder and dismemberment which he never would have been caught for. He was intoxicated when he first killed and dismembered his victim, and by all accounts taken by surprise his long held fantasy became reality. Thoughts precede action, as he learned, but it gave him his first taste of evil. This first murder set the stage for his later serial killing, when he had perfected his drugging methods, and made himself the perfect wolf in sheep's clothing - physically attractive and charming to his unsuspecting victims. Wanting to keep his victims with him permanently is also a recurring statement in his later interviews, as his explanation for all his deplorable actions, as is complete power and control. Bones can be kept for a long time, as can dead flesh in the right chemical solutions. I suspect he was secretly thrilled out of committing the most vile murders imaginable and continuing to be a monster hidden inside a good looking man and not get caught, making him feel very very powerful and in control. In interviews he repeats that nobody had a clue. The fact he got away with his first murder even when stopped by Police with his car full of murdered body parts, could only have reinforced that he could get away with murder again and again and could fool police. He may have been very good at keeping his sick desires hidden, most his life, but everybody around him seemed to turn a blind eye towards him. The indicators were there, and the writing was on the wall. Perhaps proof that, "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
Thank you for this sensitive and informative video! I think it’s important to mention that the victims' families did not consent to this show being made and are not receiving any of the profits it makes. there have been so many documentaries etc. made about him already, I kind of feel like we didn't need another one. If the entire season was made the way they did episode six (focusing entirely on the victim and who they were as a person) it would have been different but this just feels exploitative to a certain extent. True crime content is a difficult thing to get right, but there is a way. I can highly recommend Kendall Rae on KZhead. She actually talks to the families and helps get their stories out. Also, I recognize that this story isn't as widely known outside of the US and I think if anything it's great to have people watch it through someone else (especially someone who is qualified) instead of streaming it directly on Netflix, so they don't make more money off of this than they already do.
Excorist 3 is mostly a low budget jumbled mess of a movie, but Brad Dourif gives an amazing breakout performance with his monologue as the Gemini killer, worth a watch.
Bit of a tangent, but I think Exorcist 3 is underrated. It doesn't stand up to the original but George C Scott and Brad Dourif both give amazing performances.
It's a well-made but very disturbing movie with one particularly famous (or notorious) scene. It totally makes sense that it was Dahmer's favorite movie. It didn't do too well on initial release, but does have a fairly strong cult following. And, I think, it was released not too long before Dahmer was caught. It would still be a pretty contemporary movie - not at all as "obscure" as Dr. Elliot calls it. (It might actually be an interesting movie for this channel, actually.)
The movie "My friend Dahmer" is amazing as well. It's about his youth up until his first murder. Well worth a watch.
The graphic novel it is based on was written by a 'friend' of his from High School, although it is fairly well researched, there is a fair bit of conjecture and the usual bout of "I always knew there was something wrong with him." His foreword and afterword are actually pretty cool though, where he presents a lot of information with in-text citations and everything, gives specific reasons for what he believes happened and even admits to some points being conjecture.
I enjoyed that film as well, but it loses out to the Netflix series in that it focuses solely on his high school years before he started killing people, so you're left a bit in the dark, narratively.
@@warlockofwordsreturnsrb4358 I haven't watched the Netflie series yet. But I'm psyched!
@@warlockofwordsreturnsrb4358 It’s based on a graphic novel.
@@theperson8539 By Derf Backderf, his former class mate.
It’s not okay but I bursted out laughing when The first thing out of the husbands mouth when his wife overdoses is “did she finally do it?” 😂
Thank you for speaking out on common misconceptions/misperceptions about autism
"Today we are talking about Dahmer..." Black Peppa in the background: Hey 👋
Thank you, thank, thank you for explaining that autism doen't mean lack of empathy but lack of understanding social clues. This is SO misunderstood.
No doubt in my mind his upbringing and lack of love and attention greatly contributed to his development. After listening to this, an added factor is those drugs she knocked back during pregnancy also affected his neurological formation, leading to emotional and mental development issues too. Yet the smdysfunctional and distant parents both proclaim their love for him and don't take any responsibility for the way he tugned out. This is probably 80% their fault. They were disinterested in him and let him go off unsupervised to do his own thing. Plus all that supporting him to dissect animals and keep dead bodies around him in jars etc. They should have committed themselves to getting his psychiatric help. In the film, the way the father seemed so calm towards his sons behaviours makes you know he was not quite right either, as if he was helpless. They did not parent him. They just provided board and financial support.
Apparently some psychiatrists have also speculated that Dahmer might have had a combination of borderline pd and schizotypal pd. Also I'm curious how exactly would bed-wetting after a certain age be connected to aspd, unlike animal cruelty and setting fires it doesn't seem connected to the behaviors of that personality disorder?
My thoughts also. Two seem deliberate, while the third seems unintentional.,
Dr. Elliott- great job!! Thank you! 😊
Interesting. My son got diagnosed with ADHD at 4. Although I thought it was very young to be diagnosed found to be very true. Thanks for that little bit of insight.
The first 2 cops a worst and their are in so high position...disgusting and the dad poor soul
Thank you, that was informative and very interesting. I wish you had addressed the father's concerns that the prescription drugs the mother was taking during pregnancy might have adversely affected the development of the fetus. Do you think this may have been a contributing factor to Dahmer's psychopathic nature?
THANK YOU, re: autism and empathy. We're empathetic, but we don't always express it right (or at all). It doesn't mean we don't feel it.
Question: what is it about bedwetting that helps become a predictor of whether or not a child will develop psychopathic tendencies? Thanks, Dr. E! Love your knowledge and personality! Thanks for being authentic 😊❤
How liikely is it that JD's father actually said something about JD not being the same after JD's hernia operation? We know JD had hernia surgery. This is fairly common surgery, due to a common developmental abnormality. Was JD really not the same after the surgery? Did JD's father say he was not the same, or was this just in the movie. The movie was done for entertainment purposes. It was not a precise description of what actually happened. Nor was it intended to be.
his father did say it could’ve “damaged” him in some way but it’s only a theory as to his ideas of what could’ve caused JDs behavior
I think you'll find that the reason that people with mental health situations, especially those relating to hallucinatory disorders end up developing an interest in estoeria/witchcraft/"satanism" (not all satanism is the same) because we are looking for answers and explanations about why we experience the things we experience that we can't find an adequate explanation for in science yet. Many of our experiences appear to be outside the normal realm of experience. One might call it paranormal or supernatural. I think it is supernature, in that the experiences transcend what is observationally and experientially natural to our epistemological understanding or baseline, but I don't think it's any kind of realm beyond the nature of self, if that makes sense?
Thank you for this.. I had a friend that I suspected was mental unstable. Not sure exactly in what way but she delved into witchcraft and esotericism’s and I contributed her focus on those subjects made her absolutely delusional to the point it was hard to have a normal conversation with her. I told her a few times she needed therapy but that was always a big argument so I had to break our friendship because the more she got deep in witchcraft the worse her mental state. It was said seeing her descent into to madness
Name one white character in this film who wasn't depicted as a villain. How could you diagnose this film without noticing this?
Please review an Episode of Mindhunter also on Netflix. I would love to see your opinions on mental health and other portrayals of serial killers.
I think his diagnoses of BPD and Schizotypal Personality Disorder from his time in prison were very accurate to how I view his behavior.
10:22 Yeah there’s a 3 and it’s directed by the book’s writer. I especially love the casting of Brad Dourif.
It was suggested in one of the episodes that the drug he used on the victims was haldol. He learned about it in the armed forces.
Are you talking about sedating them? If so do you mean halcion? “Triazolam” which he most often used.
@@riordanparata4339 That would make sense but in the series, I am pretty sure that they said it twice about haldol.
@@Xaves511 that’s an anitsycotic but it can be used to Knock people out so maybe that too?
@Lizzy thank you! I was so confused . I’m on the same medication 0.5 mg of triazolam at night due to male on male rape, my step dad raped me and I have complex post traumatic stress disorder from that and I’m a gay so this is the only thing that helps me sleep
The Exorcist III is one of the creepiest horror films I've ever seen. A true 90's classic!
Dahmer did a lot to try not to kill people at first and his killing seemed to stem from this fear off people leaving him. The other compulsions such as cannibalism came much later. There were mixed stories too. He was for instance friendly with most of his neighbours although they did complain about the smell, he was being evicted for it and they did call the police on one of his victims (14). Chris Scarver who murdered Dahmer much later told news outlets that Dahmer used to make food into people and pretend to eat them but it was never mentioned initially. I don’t think he was as terrifying as they made him out to be in netflix documentary in fact the reporter who interviewed him for dateline.(?)on Dahmer on Dahmer said the scariest thing about him was how normal he seemed to be. Which makes sense. He wouldn’t be able to pick anyone up and take them home if he was a scary, weirdo and watching parts of the trial his last survivor Tracey said he changed and then would go back to normal. So when he saw him starting to change into a “monster” he would try to get him back to normal and distract him. It probably saved his life. He used the $100 for photos on him.
The only reason Dahmer didn't kill the jogger in the woods was because the jogger didn't show up that day. He didn't try to stop killing him
@@jojosaylor8996 that’s true, he was fantasising about it but we never if he ever would have gone through with it. He was very young and it would have been his first kill. Then again serial killers don’t always tell the truth.
What the hell!! You're making excuses for this white man.
Can you please explain the difference between psychopathy,sociopathy and anti social personality disorder?
Antisocial personality disorder is characterized by a lack of empathy and a disregard for other people-common behaviors including lying, acting on impulse, not caring for people’s safety, and breaking laws. As mentioned in the video, psychopathy describes the most extreme version of this behavior. Generally, psychopathy is used to describe ASPD presentation that is more oriented toward lack of empathy and calculated manipulation. Sociopathy, on the other hand, I’d ASPD presentation more characterized by the impulsive behaviors and disregard of safety and risk. Calling someone a “psychopath” or “sociopath” is like calling someone with OCD a “compulsion.” It’s reducing their whole being to their mental disorder and often to just a little portion of it. These are not words we should use lightly or as insults.
Idk- my psych professor told me that antisocial is a diagnosis, while psychopath and sociopath are under the umbrella of that, relatively interchangeable depending on the context of the field of work.
I don't know if you're a sci-fi fan, but something occurs to me. There's a very good Deep Space Nine episode Field of Fire, which dealt with using the personality of a serial killer to try to identify another. The central character for that episode is also a therapist.
Yes, there is an Exorcist III, and while it's obviously not as good as the first one, it's a recommended watch, miles above the dreadful Exorcist II. One of Brad Dourif's (AKA Grima Wormtongue in LOTR and the voice of Chucky in the Child's Play films) most memorable films, IMO. And yeah, to call this show disturbing would be an understatement. How someone can do to another human being what Dahmer did to his victims is beyond me.
*Saving the term "proper gross" for future use ❤️*
Does young Jeff's experience of finding his mom dead-ish (eyes open, OD-ing) corelate to Denis Nielsen's experience of seeing his dead grandfather lying in his coffin, in their parlor? Is that why both found dealing w corpses preferable? Both equated love w death? At such a young age in their development?
This whole thing broke my heart..
The intro begs for classic meme: "Sounds gay...I'm in"
he did an interview with inside edition thats really interesting and worth a watch
Interesting inputs! Well explained! ❤️💖😍💖❤️❤️💖❤️❤️❤️
From what I've heard of the true story and hearing Lionel Dahmer speak, I think they might have exaggerated a lot of the parents flaws on the show, maybe in an attempt to build empathy towards Jeffery Dahmer or even try to excuse some of his behaviours. That's the only real issue I have against the show. Dahmer himself said he was the only person responsible for his actions. Let's not blame parents or try to explain things away this easily.
And according to Lionel, the mum was treated for seizures she had when pregnant.
So you're more concerned about how the pubic views his parents? How about have some empathy for the parents and family of his victims. Jeffrey isn't a victim at all. I say this because he knew his white privileges would allow him to do the things he did in plain sight. He knew he would be believed over the Asian child and the black young boys and men he murdered. It amazes me all of this empathy I see you white people given to Dahmer all while not even acknowledging the pain these families were and have been put through!
@@queenroyaltyrules55 Did you even read the message you're answering to? I said I was annoyed at the show trying to find Dahmer excuses and building empathy towards him. When did I say I had empathy for Dahmer? But yes, I do have some for his parents, being a mother myself, though. That doesn't stop me from having empathy towards the victims too. There isn't a side to pick, Dahmer is the only culprit and made victims of them all. And I don't appreciate being low key called a racist. I am not. Saying "you white people" is actually racist, do you realise that? Don't assume you know someone by the colour of their skin.
Just discovered you today. Absolutely lucid and layered explanation of JD/the Netflix movie itself. I learned so much. Really applaud your addressing LGBTQ issues. I subscribed today!
I wish you would have included the lines right after in the scene about the pregnancy - the mother clearly states that she doesn't enjoy pregnancy and she can't wait for it to be over.
Why non of these psychoanalysis and psychologists never discuss that he had quite a lot of characteristics of Asperger’s.
Hi there I find this video interesting and im currently studying psychology but I think forensic psychiatry is where I was born to be beyond intrigued 😌
Extremely interesting review! Thx
The first episode felt hard for me to watch, especially after knowing what ends up happening to the victims. I'm glad this guy was able to escape. Had so much anxiety watching that part. Also interesting to learn that bed wetting and like setting stuff on fire also counts as signs. I can understand the fire setting but not the bed wetting. Like why is that a sign? Great to have context to when this took place, and a reminder of how badly sexist and inept the psychology field and police were/are at the time respectively. At least things are changing in the psychology field and for the police, unfortunately not as much
Your benzo sleepiness comment reminds me of something unrelated, a study of hypersomnia patients by Emory U. sleep docs. I had hypersomnia for seven years. Researchers hypothesized that the cerebral spinal fluid of hypersomnia patients may contain a substance that has a sedative effect like a benzodiazepine would. They were able to prove this. One researcher stated that the effect of this compound was like having a benzodiazepine in your system all of the time. He also stated that the sedative effect on the body of hypersomnia patients was similar to the sedative effect that patients experience for a colonoscopy. For seven years, I slept up to 33 hours at once and up to an average of 18 hours a day, and it was not depression. It was tough to live through, but I seem to be on the other side now. Hypersomnia is a debilitating sleep disorder.
The medication at 20:00 is Halcion? My dentist recommended that for me because I have severe dental anxiety. Is it really that rare?
Thank you for your analysis. Would it be possible to analyse mangas? There are a lot of psychological manga that really touches on behaviour and humanity.
The Dr. Carthy drinking game would definitely have to include “take a shot whenever transference and counter-transference comes up” :P Also “take a shot whenever he says ‘let’s crack on’ or ‘at least here in the UK’”
Thank you for pointing out that trauma and mental health struggles doesn't lead to horrific crimes. I watched my biological father stab my biological mother in the lung in front of me a month before my 6th birthday. I was beaten mercilessly in foster care. I've struggled with PTSD, ADD, and was recently diagnosed with cyclothymia. I'm also a proud gay man. None of that means that I commit or could even fathom committing ANY violence, let alone so what Dahmer did.
I am still with the Hernia Operation. Of course the anaestetic will not play a rele, nut I have been thinking about a situation were he was awake during the operation, meaning the anaestetic did not work well so he was feeling and hearing everything but the doctors did not notice. Such things still happend back in that time onece in a while and might have traumatized him without him beeing able to remember all this.
I've never heard of a case where anyone has suffered mental anguish from buried memories while under general anesthesia. What the father in the show was implying was something more along the lines of restricted blood flow to his brain, which can happen if the anesthesia causes a drop in blood pressure, cardiac arrest, etc. That's why they always have an anesthesiologist present the whole time. It's possible that person messed up, but I have no idea how common that is.
@@klutterkicker That is not what I am talking about. I am talking about the case that the person is awake but cannot moove or talk, there are different medications giving during anesthesia, one is to relax all the muscles that you cannot moove or talk, one is to fall asleep and fall unconscious (nowadays it is a little bit different, depending on the op) , that time, it did not always work properly, sometimes the medication for the muscels to realax workt but not the sleep medication which led to unconsiousness and not feeling the pain, that can lead to a psychological or emotional trauma. That often leads into CLuster B personality disorders. While a lack of oxygen dies different things in the brain, so that the result is cerebal palsy up to extrem disablity, but this is not the same as a cluster B personality which has problems with emotions and the empathy to other people, only with this someting like what Dahmer did happend. The diagosed him schiuophrenia what was common in these days, but now they might diagnose him a personal B personalty. It is the trauma causing it. And the possibility that he had a traum during the operation that the medicine did not work is more likely, it was 1964, you cannot compare with today. The possibility that is was a lack of oxigen leads to completely different problems. He would have not developed but rather hat spasms or stop developing skills, maybe cannot walk, talk, and is like a little baby of 6 month (better or wors, it is a spectrum). The youtube chanal "Human institute of anatomy" has a video called psychopathy in the brain, which explains it well.
You're really good doc, do you do any homers ? I'm in Lanarkshire so not that far... JK well a wee bit lol
I want more! You are amazing!
They still have triazolam in the US. not popular but every pharmacy has at least some on hand.
This is such an interesting topic I’m not sure we will ever have the answers to. You see it argued all the time: video games, guns, the occult, taxidermy/collecting specimens, trauma, all things people are quick to blame for violent actions. When in reality 99 percent of “normal” people with interests in these things would never ever hurt another person. What is it psychologically that tweaks how that person relates to it to the point of violence? And then it makes the rest of us look terrible lol