There is No Algorithm for Truth - with Tom Scott
How does science get communicated in an age of social media?
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Watch all of Tom's videos on his channel - / tomscottgo
In this Discourse, Tom Scott talks about science communication in the age of social media, how to be popular on the internet, and dealing with a world where view counts are often more important than truth.
Watch the Q&A: • Q&A: There is No Algor...
Tom Scott is a British entertainer, educator, KZheadr, web developer and former presenter of 'Gadget Geeks' on Sky One. He graduated from the University of York with a degree in linguistics. He has a popular KZhead channel with over 1.6 million subscribers and more than 325 million video views as of June 2019.
In more than fifteen years of publishing on the internet, Tom has visited the High Arctic, passed out in a centrifuge, and somehow got three million people to watch a video about why the British plug is a great invention.
This talk and Q&A was filmed in the Ri on 27 September 2019.
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Thank you so much to all the team at the RI for inviting me! The memory of lecturing in the Faraday Theatre is going to stay with me for a long time.
It is Truth we all should seek .
So how does it feel to stand, so to speak, on the shoulders of the giants in their own home?
Outstanding, same with your channels. Thanks Tom
And you resisted the temptation to lecture everyone about the historic lectures that took place there. Very impressive.
Congrats on this and many other achievements in the last couple of years.
Came for Tom Scott. Stayed to hear Tom Scott berate me for coming for Tom Scott.
accurate description of my experience
This! :-D
Same let us bond over our mutual parasocial relationship.
Same thought I had while watching it.
"Came for Tom Scott." ... phrasing... ...but no judgement
Rare footage of Tom Scott not wearing a red t-shirt
it's underneath the suit
Lol
White reflects the entirety of the light spectrum so he is wearing a "red" shirt.
@@No-uc6fg Touché
or gray hoodie
I will forever be jealous of Toms ability to keep an audience gripped on every word he says. And with that I now realise what he means by an authoritative voice…
It’s all about how he paces his sentences and how he stresses each word. The way he’s talking purposefully builds up a kind of tension, for lack of a better word
@@cerdic6305 i mean while that might be part of it, i think the most important thing is the content of what he says, because if you don't know what to say, then your ability to pace sentences won't matter
@A Guy: You might hope so, but I'm not convinced. The content of what he says here would seem to argue against that.
Jealous is a bit negetive now isn't it? Try impressed insted;-)
I learned how to do this to an extend with media training, it's crazy how a slight difference in tone can change your whole vibe
Tom Scott's public speaking skills are to die for. I wonder what practice or journey Tom went through to be THIS good at public speaking? He oozes charisma and authority, and audiences can't help but be captivated by him. I'd love to know how he became such a master at public speaking as an aspiring public speaker myself.
That's more than a decade of experience for you.
@@kgb4150 The only answer to the question "How can someone get so good at x?" Practice. The answer is always practice.
Autism. He really harnessed it as a force for good.
It's because he dressed up as a pirate and accidentally won some student elections once
So true. I accidentally clicked on the video expecting a talk about Gödel's incompleteness theorem, but then found myself captivated before even realizing this was not what I was looking for …
Fact: the algo recommended this, i clicked cause i like tom’s vids. Tom roasted everything about that fact for an hour. It’s alright. Cause tom is my friend. Im convinced of that.
Strictly speaking , we are his friends, he is not our friend. I'm okay with that.
@@ICountFrom0 Brilliant, you guys. :)
@@ICountFrom0 one of the harder lessons in life: Friendship is not a symmetric relation.
@@Animaniac-vd5st And non transitive. And that sucks the big one too.
@@ICountFrom0 most shockingly, it's not even reflexive for many of us.
That moment when the algorithm summons you to learn about itself in a video.
Same here. This one's been appearing in my recommendations for months.
It's trying to communicate!
@@JontyLevine Mine too. Though to be fair, it _is_ an hour long, so I took my time in getting around to it.
@@AaronOfMpls but you watched it so the video about itself got a point.
And I have a conspiracy theory that KZhead recommendation system has a goal of applying Schema Therapy on its users. :)
It's been 2 years - EDIT: 4 years. And this video ages better and better. Tom just nailed both the presentation and the framing of his talk.
*If you really like him, you almost can't see he's very pro-globalism (pro-billionaires), very left wing, anti-Freedom. Too bad... No matter how decent a presenter (even though he blatantly copies Derren Brown's persona, which I like), I can't follow anyone who spreads ideas that are diametrically against what I believe in. Much, much rather watch Jordan Peterson, a thousand times.*
@@SeganHealthHacker LOL he's not anti-freedom. Youre confused.
@@SeganHealthHacker you are confused if you think left-wing is pro billionaire.
@@SeganHealthHacker better believe that ya weird then. I would recommend you watching Get Out!
@@luker.6967 It's a broad generalization but he is not wrong when you look at what is considered mainstream left.
Incredible that this came out pre-pandemic. The part about "antivax" hit especially hard.
I thought that too. I had to check the date.
Where was this?
Because none of the "anti-vax" sentiment before COVID was dealing with a vaccines that skipped all the normal testing. I also don't recall anyone saying someone's life and livelihood should be destroyed for questioning any vax prior to COVID even if they disagreed with them.
@@drdameron999 The pre-2020 antivax stuff was manufactured to get people ready to be angry later on if they ever needed to push a rushed vaccine.
@@drdameron999 The diseases are very efficient at destroying lives and livelihoods ... that's why we have the vaccines.
Part of me is disappointed and disturbed that Tom is not wearing a red t-shirt.
Yes
For 49.95 you can call the hotline to discuss.
I guess I don't need to make a new comment to say the same thing.
Very parasocial comment
Although due respect has to be shown to the venue, not even a red tie.... I am so disappointed two.
Very interesting talk. This chap should start his own KZhead channel or something....
I almost wooshed myself.
He's a blowhard. Well spoken, intelligent yet corrupt.
@@DanFrederiksen Why is he corrupt?
@@geammanDW by his own admission, I guess is the joke. Do you watch Tom's channel?
@@arsenymakarov6961 No, I never saw him before. Its just an honest question.
"In more than fifteen years of publishing on the internet, Tom has visited the High Arctic, passed out in a centrifuge, and somehow got three million people to watch a video about why the British plug is a great invention." That last one perfectly captures the brilliance of his channel XD
i actually emailed Tom and he replied to me. i was so stunned and he was lovely. i was just about starting content creation and bless him, i asked thee worst questions... but he replied and was super nice about it. something i am sure he has been asked a million times. i thought that really reflected a lot about what type of person he must be deep down.
"You gotta remember, all these big companies, Google, Facebook, Twitter, they are essentially advertising compani-" (Ad cuts in)
Same here, that exact moment! And the kind you can't click away…
If you want to get less ads, use an ad blocker
mine was half an hour long
@@NatoBoram I feel that suffering ads is my way of paying for the content.
This video had ads? People don't have free ad blockers running?
From "Two Drums and an Cymbal Fall Off a Cliff" to presenting from behind that legendary desk. Well done, Tom.
@Jan van Coppenhagen Me too :/
helss yeah
First one was better
Tom peaked early with that video, i still love him tho
@@nemtudom5074 1 hit wonder but still a cool dude
I watched another video titled "There is No Algorithm for Truth", which discussed the mathematics, information theory, and logic which proved that. So the misguided "algorithm" (in Tom's sense) thought I would like this one. I enjoyed a few of his videos in the past, and knew *that* sort of thing seemed an unlikely topic for him, so I clicked out of curiosity. And was surprised but not disappointed.
I was expecting something along the lines of it being impossible to find the objective truth. (The scientific method tries, but it technically only eliminates bad answers) Not disappointed its about machine learning "algorithms" used to curate our content and the consequences thereof.
link?
From all of 33:44 to 45:45 really hit me like a truck. I realised that I literally only watch Tom Scott because of how charming he is to me as a person. He's so interesting, and funny and I feel like I have a personal friendship. I am barely interested in anything he talks about - I don't care about g - force or an island that has too much power, but I am interested in him. I enjoy all the memes made about him, the community about him. Literally, even look through these comments, all most all of them are about how he doesn't age, or how he only wears red shirts or something of the like. I literally only like Tom Scott for Tom Scott, and not for anything scientific he talks about.
It's also sort of what happened with Nikocado Avocado, where they watched him just for him and the drama
*He's very pro-globalism (pro-billionaires), very left wing, anti-Freedom. Too bad. No matter how decent a presenter (even though he blatantly copies Derren Brown's persona), I can't follow anyone who spreads ideas that are diametrically against what I believe in. Much, much rather watch Jordan Peterson, a thousand times.*
@@SeganHealthHacker, just out of interest, why do you think those things? I don’t think that Tom Scott has openly talked about his views on politics. Also, Peterson (from what I’ve seen) and Scott have very different genres of videos, Peterson is much more political and Scott informational, so is that a fair comparison? I mean no disrespect to you, and you have every right to watch what you want to watch. I’m just interested in the reasoning behind the comment.
@@flyingsheep567 There's no use in trying to have a sincere conversation with someone like this. He looks like a total looney, but you're giving him the benefit of the doubt, which is well and all but.. if he looks like a looney, it's because he is. Go look at the rest of this comment section. He's sent this same non sequitur reply to like 15 other comments. It's not like he's trying to spark up a conversation with it or anything, he just somehow has gotten himself to think that reading this alone will convince someone. It might appear laudable to try to engage with an idea you don't necessarily agree with, but with a lot of people, engaging is really just a waste of breath because they're not here to listen. In this case, this guy's engaging in some real looney behaviour and clearly isn't the type of person you can hold an actual conversation with.
Conversely I mainly watch him because I am genuinely interested in everything he talks about and his style of videos explain it in a way that I can understand.
I love listening to my friend Tom Scott. He’s factual sounding, with relatable moments. And he’s my friend and I’m not his.
Son: Dad, I need $45 for Bruce Springsteen! Dad: You can pay your friend back next week. I never though that sitcom joke would become literal.
This is the best comment I've read in a while. :D Cheers for the intelligent laugh!
Thats what I thought.
The Elven Jedi gonna assume you’re referring to Paul Robinson , cause his joke was funny.
@@oxybrightdark8765 exactly what i thought! sad pikachu
This guy is so believable. I love how cheekily honest and open he is and all the irony surrounding this.
*If you really like him, you almost can't see he's very pro-globalism (pro-billionaires), very left wing, anti-Freedom. Too bad... No matter how decent a presenter (even though he blatantly copies Derren Brown's persona, which I like), I can't follow anyone who spreads ideas that are diametrically against what I believe in. Much, much rather watch Jordan Peterson, a thousand times.*
@@SeganHealthHacker mald
@@SeganHealthHacker "jordan peterson" yep the pillar of stable and wise content
He has a bunch of channels and a new podcast called Latent :)
@@SeganHealthHacker Why are you going to every comment then copying and pasting the same thing? Like people care so much about your opinion.
Was a fan of Tom Scott's videos. After watching this, I'm a fan of Tom Scott.
*If you really like him, you almost can't see he's very pro-globalism (pro-billionaires), very left wing, anti-Freedom. Too bad... No matter how decent a presenter (even though he blatantly copies Derren Brown's persona, which I like), I can't follow anyone who spreads ideas that are diametrically against what I believe in. Much, much rather watch Jordan Peterson, a thousand times.*
@@SeganHealthHacker bruh
@@SeganHealthHacker JP became a sold out Israeli Zionist apartheid regime Ben’s employee.
@@SeganHealthHacker Don't write in bold. Your opinion is important, but other people's opinions are equally important. And they deserve an equal chance to be seen.
@@SeganHealthHacker Congratulations. You've created a post that I find so incredibly hard to tell if it's a troll. I could see it going either way. You're either trolling by saying something so clearly satire that nobody should take you seriously. Or your actually serious and that's your real opinion. I have genuinely no idea which it is.
Greetings from Finland. The Algorithm suggested I watch this video. I had never heard about Tom Scott. He spoke very well and the topic was interesting, so I listened to the end. I will now immediately look up other videos by and with Tom Scott. I am eagerly waiting to see what the Servers feed me...
Which will lead you to Computerphille because of his cameos there!
And hopefully you'll find "Citation Needed", which is just a bunch of smart young British men cracking jokes around a random subject. Amazingly funny,.
The KZhead Algorithm always has a plan. All hail The KZhead Algorithm
@@megatrollificus I have fond memories of this pathway.
Thanks Mr. Finland
me: *scrolls down a bit* also me: "Ah, there are my people. They're the ones that are right."
scrolled down just after he said that
relatable
@Im this guy's Other account who are*** correct
@@HighestRank 56:05 why are you falsely correcting this - you are not my people
*Liked the comment by a person who is right and is one of my people*.
19:40 this made me pause the video, it hit home so hard, i get videos recommended about navy seal trainings, free solo climbers, the barkley marathon runners, elite powerlifters, and I've always felt like that's the real bar for success. I could never understand my mom being anti vax, while i could understand the healthy skepticism she had at the start. It is absolutely mindblowing that it applies for everything, no wonder that anxiety and insecurity are so prevelant
I know I have an odd name, so it sounds like I’m being sarcastic, but legitimately thank you for your input, and for not just falling in line with the views around you, and holding on to your own opinions; because there are very few people who do that nowadays. Keep your head up and remember that your opinion about you is all that matters.
In the spirit of this video, imma do a thing. "Your opinion about you is all that matters" That same sentance can be either... A very encouraging thing to say to someone in a vulnerable place, or alternatively, a horrible thing to say to someone in dire need of re-evaluating their life. Like a smoker, or homeopathic fanatic, or violently racist individual. Its weird how the tools to fight depression can be used to affirm the zealots of the world. Human brains are strange (and i live in one!)
@@willb5278 You don't live in a brain, you *are* the brain, you're just controlling this body by giving tiny electric shocks to a system of wires that makes the muscles pull or relax.
A hot tip for trying to convince her of truth over vaccines, the falsehoods of some vaccines (homeopathic ones, and ones with decreasing efficacy in just weeks) and the utter pit of detritus that are those essential oil antivaxxer groups: The more you attack someone, the more they will hate you. They will no longer listen to you, as you become their enemy.
@@willb5278 nice thing ya did there
When you said "Google, twitter, facebook...are essentially advertising companies", you were put on hold and I was taken to a car ad. The universe has a wicked sense of humor. The timing was impecable.
I think its related to their being a short pause at the end of the sentence, and youtube has an ad placement algorithm that tries to not cut people off mid sentence and loves to put ads at transitions in videos. (Which can be annoying, but sometimes it has perfect comedic timing)
So, Tom Scott is the only guy who is able to give a public speech without a Macbook. Impressive
Can't bodge on a Mac.
First thing I noticed.
@@melonduofromage6058 what self respecting nerd wants to own a Mac? Most nerds run Linux
@@MarceldeJong you can totally install Linux on a Mac. More like what self respecting nerd would pay that much extra for the hardware?
@@davidgustavsson4000 I heard that decreases battery life a lot. Like halves it. You'll probably get the same performance and more battery life from anything else that's half the price.
Somehow this lecture gets more and more relevant with each passing year.
"Somehow" uh, social media companies still make their profits off ads and all of us would like to be making more money?
Lecture was on September 27, 2019. There has only been 1
@@possoumous7266 well 2 now but still very relevant
Yeah it's almost like a problem from only 2 years ago is still around today.
*He's very pro-globalism (pro-billionaires), very left wing, anti-Freedom. Too bad. No matter how decent a presenter (even though he blatantly copies Derren Brown's persona), I can't follow anyone who spreads ideas that are diametrically against what I believe in. Much, much rather watch Jordan Peterson, a thousand times.*
I referenced this talk in my personal statement for my UCAS university application last year and now I'm studying at the University of York, of which Tom is an alumnus 😂
That was fantastic. As Tom explained, the algorithm is always dangerous and I think we all have a moral imperative to never believe something outright from someone on the internet. Creators have a responsibility to fact-check as much as they possibly can and be honest if something is opinion like Tom was. And we as viewers have a responsibility to double-check and cross-reference what we hear from educators, to inform them when what they say doesn't match up with the consensus or reality, and to protect others from falling into the same mistakes.
The problem is that's too much work to most people
>we all have a moral imperative to never believe something outright Should've ended the sentence there, to be honest.
*If you really like him, you almost can't see he's very pro-globalism (pro-billionaires), very left wing, anti-Freedom. Too bad... No matter how decent a presenter (even though he blatantly copies Derren Brown's persona, which I like), I can't follow anyone who spreads ideas that are diametrically against what I believe in. Much, much rather watch Jordan Peterson, a thousand times.*
I don't think the algorithm is necessarily dangerous, and it's definitely not _always_ dangerous. It's also most definitely not what Tom implied with his statements. He even states it as a necessity to deal with loads of information and, in the case of KZhead, videos that can't be dealt with by people. But the human aspect shouldn't be ruled out, at least, that's what I got out of it.
@@SeganHealthHacker I find the topic interesting and find the presentation to be rather good regardless of whether I agree with it or not. However, I'd rather watch George Carlin at least once a week. I think I'll find more truth there!
"We'll get back to that later." He's trying to make us watch the whole video! ;)
Surprised to see you here😆👍 Have a nice day!
@@ikkeolve You only replied that because you believe that you are Sl1pg8r's friend 😉
@@misode Oh no, it went full circle 😳
He learned that from Darren Brown.
and got baack literally 3 min before the end of the video
I'm in awe at his ability to know what to do with his hands.
I did not realise this, and now I hate you for making me watch the whole thing again while fixated on his hands. But I will admit you are right, he is excellent at using his hands to subtly emphasise his deliveries and points.
The part about selling friendship is gold. starting 33:01 to the end.... I wish every parent(and their child) saw this, and understood it.
Something I learnt at university was a theory called "the spiral of silence". Basically, people who hear thoughts like theirs spoken in public - whether in the media or just on the street - are more likely to also voice their opinion. If you don't hear voices/thoughts like yours, you assume ~nobody~ thinks the way you do, and so to avoid conflict you won't voice your opinion. Which is weird because it's usually (actually) the minority who are the loudest.
Great, another paradox making life worse 😂
@@crazydragy4233 not really a paradox. People are social creatures and we like to be accepted and respected by our peers. So if we think something that we think isn't a popular opinion, we will naturally keep it to ourselves. That's all the spiral of silence is, essentially, but on a larger scale.
@@doctorspockable I meant it in a sort of way that, it's natural behaviour that's hard to go against, but necessary to for systems to work and for everyone to live a better life
we talked about this in a sociology course, too, it's a fascinating phenomenon. It doesn't even have to be a 'loud' minority. People even start actively saying things they don't really agree with because they think it will make them more socially accepted, and it does, although solely because others belief the same. like complaining about the rain. do you really feel a few drops are so terrible? or is it just that everyone always says so, and thus you join in
I do this game, everytime somebody says “uhm” in a video I take a shot of tequilia. I’ve now been sober for an entire hour..
His oration's insane. A little too quick for my tastes, but otherwise a total master.
4:06
5:59 I've found that he's says "uhm" directly after telling a joke during the applause
He's learned the trick of replacing uhms with a short bit of silence.
He said "uh" at 37:46 but it fit in so naturally with the sentence I didn't notice it the first time I watched this.
Tom Scott's voice is getting more and more authoritative these days.
Wot? Wdym?
@@mayankraj2294 they mean that it might not be true or untrue. But is is definitively authoritative.
Lololololol
First listen. Ill take ya as a warning..
Authortitiv
Really amazing talk. Realizing there is no simple solution to all the misinformation being circulated out there by misinformed or ill-intentioned people is really frightening, because well informed citizenry is crucial for any democratic society.
A lot of people are very opposed to that notion, but democracy indeed begins to fail when a large portion of the population is swayed by populism and misinformation. Suddenly you don't just have sides arguing about how to approach a problem, now you also have sides objectively incorrectly arguing that the problem is of a different nature, that it doesn't exist or that there's a completely different problem which needs attention. And the logical extreme of that is: If misinformed and emotional voters are impossible to effectively eliminate, does that make the premise of the current model of democracy in modern world unrealistic?
*If you really like him, you almost can't see he's very pro-globalism (pro-billionaires), very left wing, anti-Freedom. Too bad... No matter how decent a presenter (even though he blatantly copies Derren Brown's persona, which I like), I can't follow anyone who spreads ideas that are diametrically against what I believe in. Much, much rather watch Jordan Peterson, a thousand times.*
@@CanIHasThisName Every weakness of people is also a weakness of a person. An individual can be swayed with misinformation just as well as ten. Populism is a tricky subject to grapple with, because although it has lead to bad outcomes, the central premises are often true: some people have substantially more power than others, this power imbalance often causes conflicts of interests, in those conflicts of interest those with disproportional power often hold the same interests, and if power is the cause of a conflict of interests, it's often a bad idea to maintain that power. If I had to guess, the reason that populism can lead to bad outcomes is because its a political shakeup which let's bad actors in. Like, imagine if there was a throne somewhere, and that throne gave you some sort of power if you sat in it. Populism would cause people to push the ruler out of the throne. After that, you just have to hope the next person to sit on it is there with good intentions. Let's talk about the misinformation part again. More specifically, let's talk about Technocracy. Under a technocracy, what you would typically expect is that the base system is that of expert appointees. Each branch of the government could deal with what's in their domain, the economists deal with the economy, the climate scientists deal with climate, and so on. They would conduct studies to find out if something is true. Now, what happens if theres a conflict of interests here? Something we forget now that these revolutions have been fought and won is that monarchies were supported in part just because of logistics. These logistics were, in the end, wrong. If a yes or no on a policy would make people happier, democracy will tend towards picking that option. So democracy always has that direct utilitarian benefit. A technocracy would hopefully try to have the best interests of the people in mind, but in the end there is no good particle. If you value human happiness or the word of god or doing the right thing even when it doesn't help anyone, you cant derive that from anywhere. And if the technocrats dont share the same values, you dont really have a good way of dealing with them. If a democratic majority is all it takes to get rid of technocracy, well, the line between democracy and technocracy is fuzzy. If a supermajority is required, all the technate needs to do to keep power is use misinformation to keep a minority on their side, with scientific legitimacy and much more power backing them up.
The problem with misinformation is it is now the norm even in the mainstream. So when we talk about limiting misinformation were actually just talking about limiting extremes opinions (which would be desirable) and second opinions on the mainstream feeds (which is not desirable). I will give an example, all over BBC and other international government broadcasters, which you assume are the lest biased, were flooded a bunch of stories about how rent control in Sweden failed. The stories were a thinly vailed attack on the interest of renters in favor of the banking system. The articles were full of misinformation, not backed by the data, and purposefully crafted to misinform. Sweden's rent control issues are actually better for access and price even in its worse situation than in Canada in its best situations. We have professionals here that not only cannot afford house they are spending over half their income to share a basement in old single family homes. One case was 7 men in a basement two of which worked for a bank. Half were so embarrassed they refused to be filmed. In the articles on how Sweden's rent control failed, they covered a professional new graduate that had a whole apartment to themselves that was paying the same amount as the people in a shared basement here.
@@SeganHealthHacker You express the real issue with social media, that it’s far too easy to find and then focus on those who share your values, meaning you become highly biased and prejudiced, lacking any impartiality. Peterson is equally extreme in his perspectives which, as Tom says, is a win win in the social media circus run for attention span and advertising revenue based on retaining viewing till the video ends.
"all these companies are essentially advertisement companies." *Ad starts playing*
"This should exist, and I'm willing to donate money to make that happen" is pretty much why I have the Patreon subscriptions that I do. I'm happy to pay for worthy content.
Same. Wintergatan and Standupmaths to name a few of them. I don't donate loads, I can't, but unlike some kid streaming games it's original and not self sustaining.
@@woutervanr I especially like The Science Asylum's and Tantacrul's work.
@@WarrenGarabrandt Me too, I think his work is too underrated.
Yea that's kind of what it's for ...🤔
Let's hope the things you are helping to fund aren't the downfall of society. Let's all bow down and praise the dystopian nightmare, total surveillance control grid, total tracking of the global population "new normal", that they are telling us all about, while we ignore and call anyone questioning it a "crazy conspiracy theorist". George Orwell's 1984 here we are.
This lecture is a lot to think about. I'm noticing that I feel uncomfortable with how some of it applies to my behaviors and beliefs - this makes me even more glad to have watched it. Thank you, Tom Scott, and the Royal Institution, for producing and sharing this video with us.
Oh yes. Tom Scott can sometimes have that effect on you. ;)
It makes me realize how people react to content, and how a large part really do care more about people. It sounds obvious, and it's been said many times, but his examples and references were insightful, as they did relate to the non-Internet world as well. I suppose more people get into "payed friendship" relation since social media times, even if they weren't much into "offline" stars before. A lot of communication has became that way, even for people who aren't famous (yet), which is why it starts in less obvious ways. It seems more people are adopting this behavior while trying to make a living online. A danger that somehow was felt, uncomfortable, but had to be heard in a clear way to fully realize.
@@aronhighgrove4100 Of course streaming in it self is a complex situation since the reason why some stream is to actually get friends. That is the streamer also gain a social benefit from streaming and do not expect any donations. Some feeling even bad about taking donations (and some refusing to do so). So the whole Parasocial relationship situation is more a grey scale in modern media then something very black and while like old broadcast media. This also goes for other new media like blogging and twittering where a lot of people do so at start as for social reason. Some becoming influencers later on. And some do it of course just to increase there media presence if there already known figure. On top of that we also have the situation where a lot of people seek out these new media, not to communicate with the Creator, but with like-minded fans. I know that when I my self use the chat function or post function in a lot of new media my comments are not aimed at the Creator but other people frequenting the chat, forum or what-have-you.
This talk was incredibly well done. Kept me engaged all the way through and leaves me with a feeling that I've learned something.
This is still one of my favorite lectures on KZhead. I come back every 6 months and it holds up every time
"If you want to get fewer adverts, skip them!" *advert starts*
Yeah, had exactly the same thing...
I didn't, curiously. Maybe your work has already paid off?
Same. Ad served up.
great advice from someone that makes money from ads /sarc
Mine was unskippable, too.
15:04 “these companies are essentially advertis-“ *AD PLAYS* Well played KZhead, well played
Oh he knew. It's like clockwork.
UBlock Origin. Check it out...
@@KipIngram on mobile
@@omori3007 Ah, sorry about that. Do help me spread the word on UBlock Origin, though - it's. a fantastic package for desktop Chrme browsers.
Omori If you're on Android, try NewPipe from the F-Droid repositories. Alternatively, the KZhead mobile website is a buggy piece of whatsit and just doesn't play adverts.
I just sat through a 3 hour lecture and wanted to sleep. But this was engaging enough to keep me listening to anotjer hour long lecture. Certainly good food for thought packaged in an engaging format.
He's right! KZhead is a gateway channel! I started on Tom Scott videos, and now I'm a professor!
I’m glad the RI audience was introduced to Tom - his work is of the highest caliber. Thank you, Tom, for another well done lecture.
i think at this point we could plug brady harans channels and the people that are in those videos.
Aki San a lot of Brady’s videos don’t feature Brady himself, and instead feature the experts - Brady stands in for the viewer, asking the questions to help the conversational nature of the video continue, giving that parasocial relationship Tom described.
thats what i said...
Presenting in that room... achievement unlocked.
right? Mr. Scott deserves it tho, he's credible as all get-out.
We are so lucky to have Tom Scott and Hank Green and the like. They should form a society to help improve the internet and the world
Thank you my friend for keeping us all safe from our lack of knowledge. This is true love.
This is literally the most comprehensive video about why youtube works the way it does without even explicitly being about that.
the most comprehensive take on any given issue will always be a take on the larger family of issues that it is a part of.
It's much more amazing than that. Tom Scott obviously does not have knowledge on youtubes algorithm (only yt does) but talks about twitter, twitch, discord, reddit, etc in such detail and clarity. The unexpected tangent about the parasocial and its connection to the main story was also so mindblowing. One of my favourite videos ever!
@@hybmnzz2658 l
“...they are essentially advertising companies” It was at this time that KZhead decided to deliver the first ad 😂
Markyroson Happened to me too...😂😂😂
gotta skip more. I had no ads for the whole hour
@@g___________v6850 same for me... I guess KZhead realised they done goofed and demonatized the video 😂
Doesn't the uploader have control over that if they want?
Do some research into Adblock Plus and/or Ublock Origin.
A really harsh example of this recently came along for me and many like me who supported the Wintergaten channel. Watching Martin overcome the struggles of engineering was satisfying for years and many of us gave money to support the project. Only we weren't giving money to the project, we were giving it to *him*. The project was a veil to justify the money, intentionally or not. But once the project was scrapped and a new project was started, one without a strict goal or end in sight, the relationship became more transparent. It's a bit frustrating, and feels a little like being duped, but only because we are finally forced to confront the parasocial reality.
Mfw I find a relatable comment from 3 hours ago, while rewatching a video from 3 years ago. Yeah the Wintergatan journey has felt like a slow burning disappointment
Great talk, Tom. It's a really sophisticated analysis of where we are at. The one counter example which struck me was Bill Wurtz. He's made just two monster educational videos which have basically broken the Internet, and is content to use the platform he has thus created as a showcase for his eclectic brand of post-modern jazz-rock.
31:03 The moment I heard that distinctive laugh I knew it was Matt.
I like how it was Only matt xD
I hadn’t noticed that. Thanks for pointing it out!
And now this makes me sad because the talk is exactly the type of thing they would have had a park bench video on.
Sorry, not me!
@@MattGrayYES Matt has a laugh Doppelganger...
A big thanks to Tom for not wasting hours of my life with lengthy intros, theme songs, or self-indulgent monologues about how life as a KZheadr is so quirky and hard. One of the few KZheadrs I can stand to watch again and again.
I think this video is what got me in the habit if trying to consciously train the algorithm, that is when I want to stop browsing shorts for example I'll wait until I find one I especially dislike so they're the ones that get dinged for losing engagement.
I dunno tom, looking fly and lecturing from Faraday's desk could easily be a runner up for best photo of you.
Well done Mr Tom Scott! Thank you, that was compelling and very well presented. Great content and interesting information as well.
Watching this, and at 19:50 he cites the exact same article I did in a computer science class making a very similar argument just last year, this gives me confidence in my citation abilities
ironically enough, i'm here because the algorithm recommended this to me.
@@HighestRank What came first: the chicken or the egg? Was it the algorithm recommending this video that brought them here, or was it this person's trust in the algorithm to provide an engaging video? Both contributed, but determining the #1 main contributor of this outcome is all a matter of perspective.
Tho, ignoring an algorithm also is an algorithm and therefore fallible.
The machines learn from us; keep making thoughtful, intelligent choices. We can all help influence how the algorithms grow and change.
What so ironic about this
@@HighestRank Deterministic probabilities ;)
When I lay down for bed at 10:00, and I’m still watching KZhead at 2:00, I’d say that their algorithms are working pretty well.
Same. I now set an alarm to tell me to get off KZhead in the evening.
@@recklessroges good answer!
I've started only getting on youtube one day a weak... keeps the number of everything down to a resonably number
KZhead has a timer of 2 hours and asks you to take a break in settings
Same. 2:48 here right now...oof.
Very good lecture. You are right, in my opinion, about so much of modern communication. It’s a mad world we live in. Keep up the good work. George
This lecture helped me so much to understand my own behaviour on social media.
An ad playing the moment Tom said “all of these platforms are advertising companies” was perfect.
00:10 Introduction 06:41 Part 1: The Algorithm 23:08 Part 2: The State of Science Communication 33:49 Part 3: Parasocial 45:49 Part 4: Echo Chambers and Nazi Bars 56:17 Part 5: There Is No Algorithm for Truth
thank you kind sir
Top job lad
Comment for the algorithm
Comment for algorithm
Helping your fellow viewers - good on you!
Way more people needed to see this when it was uploaded, and not in November of 2022.
This is where I officially became a Tom Scott fan, great speech on such an important and fascinating topic
"And that brings us to the start, as mentioned in the middle."
I noticed it too
Wasn't he referring to Darren Brown,that magician he talks about in the middle? The one he's stealing the trick of "show something in the beginning then set it aside, let them forget, and then bring it back in the end"? He's doing that: Talking about the algorithm pof truth in the beginning, putting it aside and bringing it back in the end.
Um... does this mean Tom isn't my friend...?
It shouldn't be too hard to find a Tom to be your friend, there might even be a few Tom Scotts around as both parts of the name are quite popular.
@@DomenBremecXCVI Yes, you're right. I'm sure it's even within reason to befriend a Tom Scott who is wearing a red T-shirt.
"I am not your friend" -Ludwig
@@DomenBremecXCVI ok but I live in el conurbano bonaerense
@@gonzalograu8451 try kidnapping one. Your own personal Tom Scott
This was very helpful. I needed to see it. It is uncanny how the internet just knows what you need and delivers it.
I am watching this for a third time. 3, not 2, not 1. 3. Because this video is one of the earliest ones talking about and bringing awareness to the ability of these platforms to move people into darker ideals. With the recent revelations of the facebook whistleblower and the platforms being very similar in the way it promotes ideas...it is worth a re-watch. I know there were people talking about these things before Tom, but he does a great job of pin-pointing it and to be fair...I could listen to his voice talking all day. I just enjoy his "content" and voice...lol.
"It isn't about the game, it's about the person playing it." So true. The best let's play I ever saw featured a guy who was playing the game. Over time, he made friends with a girl because of the game and she started joining in on the videos. By the end of the series, they were expecting their first child. I wasn't watching because I cared so much about the monsters they were farming, I was watching because I had fallen in love with the human story that had grown around it.
What game were they playing and who was the guy?
I don't remember his name, but they were playing Monster Rancher for the original play station, I believe.
@@jamalcolmson That was a game? I thought it was only a TV series.
@@danielsjohnson It was a videogame before it was a TV series.
@@jamalcolmson I think I may have wandered into a world where Pokemon came out on home consoles. :P
I'm glad that the KZhead algorithm knows that I like Tom Scott AND the RI !
Wow! Really? Is there really much cross over between Scott And the RI?
@@SilverMe2004 It appears so.
kudos for the Douglas Adams quote. Truly one of the great thinkers and undisputedly one of the funniest.
Extra interesting listening on the heels of an algorithm-suggested video about the 3x+1 problem and one on mutating bacteria. Thank you for your work. I appreciate and admire it very much.
When Tom Scot says "it's up to us" my first thought is we are doomed.
(ಠ_ರ) Well that’s a grim perspective. That seems to be an esteem issue or maybe you’re surrounded by morons? If you think you’re smart enough to identify the worst maybe use your Boolean logic to identify the best, and associate with them instead.
@@databang I hope I am wrong but I don't see how we can change course.
databang thus leaving the sub-par majority to drive us off a cliff anyway? Finding ‘the best’ in your example is effectively just locking yourself in an intellectual ivory tower if you happen to be blessed/cursed with a brain capable of deeper thought. If the majority still lose the match for us, we all still go down...
@@TheAcdcninja Sounds like a problem to solve.
Solgato Blogopogo I spend my whole life wondering how to save the world. The only time’s I feel like I might have something even vaguely viable, I’m definitely into supervillain territory.
Very well done, and insightful. I learned a couple things, and I found that it you articulated some concepts quite well, that need to be said.
An amazing talk, which I have a remark to add to: "The more you attack someone, the more they will hate you. They will not listen, as they see you as an enemy."
This is my first translation work. The time now is 26th of Jan, 2020, during the China Wuhan outbreak It cause a surge of clickbait and conspericy theroy on our social media I wasn't able to go out in fear of getting caught by the virus so I took the time translating it. Thank you, Tom, for explaining this wonderful subject, the timing could not had been better.
Keep up the good work fella. Translating is a core component of communication and communication is the key factor in trust between peers, its a very important yet often underplayed field of study and work. I do encourage anyone to continue in such a field of study as it is not an easy one for sure! politely, you did made a mistake in your comment, you wrote "conspericy" when what I think you meant is "conspiracy". You also wrote "theroy" when you probably meant "Theory". best of luck in your future endeavors. Have a good day.
@@TheSpectralFX Hey anonymous friend and stranger, thanks for being so kind 😊
@@TheSpectralFX As q layman, I am an expert pn the subject you speak of. I could fill several texts with the dynamics of relationships and casual encounters that are created or effectual through communication. It would be from a specific foundation that I've built my observations on. Its something that has always dominated my social orlentation, and I am always surprised that people havent thought about it. I believe your statement about communication relies on an assumption, that the communicating is Truthful and Honorable. That would be the foundation from which I work. Once one defines Truth,the roles of moral principles become easy to see. And a failure to communicate Honorably can easily be traced through relationships to show it picking away at it block by block..... Learning Honorable communication, that is, the spreading of Truth, is a skill, a metaphysical skill of courage, and a necessary component of learning to recognize the Truth, and of living a life of spiritual Truth. Peace
公孙全, I'd love to see your translated copy if it's available. I hope you're doing well and having an interesting time thinking about information, human societies, and truth.
this is a sad comment to see because it only took 2 months for the entire world to get locked down due to the virus
I never even realized that tom scott doesn't use any cuts for a lot of his videos. He just have spent so much time getting the monologue just right
I subscribe to a couple people on Twitch not because I think they are a legitimate friend of mine but because they are entertaining and I acknowledge the fact that they need money to survive and dedicate as much time as they do into entertaining us. The fact that once in a while you get to interact with them is a fun bonus, don't get me wrong, but I'm not paying FOR that.
*If you really like him, you almost can't see he's very pro-globalism (pro-billionaires), very left wing, anti-Freedom. Too bad... No matter how decent a presenter (even though he blatantly copies Derren Brown's persona, which I like), I can't follow anyone who spreads ideas that are diametrically against what I believe in. Much, much rather watch Jordan Peterson, a thousand times.*
Lol. "Not paying for that". Haha.
@@SeganHealthHacker Did you understand the comment before answering? Hint: you didn't.
@@k1ry4n Ignore the spam bot copy pasting that reply onto several people. Not worth anyone's time
Some twitch streamers are fun to watch, and some small ones have slow enough chats that you can have actual genuine conversations with either other viewers or the streamer. However, i have no illusions about this being some sort of friendship. Its like having a favorite superstar musician, they provide entertainment and i provide money, and they may even be humble enough to be immensely grateful for their fans who enable their way of life, but they aren't your friend. (Maybe you litterally are friends with Beyonce, obviously she has real friends and not just parasocial groupies, and I don't know you.)
Tom hit the nail on the head with this presentation. The fact speaks for itself, look at the number of views only 1.8 million and some change as of July 9, 2021.
24:20, I'm watching this because the name "Tom Scott" was in the title. This makes me uncomfortable
Well I like his work. He surely did a good work here too right? I'm not in love with handsome Scott, only with his work I swear!
Same
The thing that really gets me going though is did he intend for the photo to come up or did he intend for it to not come up so he could talk about it?
I didn't realize at first that this wasn't his channel in the first place. This whole lecture does seem like it's the sort of content he will upload.
I'm here because I like Tom Scott. Always watched the Christmas lectures every year, same institution, more grown up. I like a good institution :-)
The way he describes Twitch subscription process puts it into a different light. It sort of sounds like a concept to a creative dystopian novel. Never thought about it like that.
Yeah, it’s kind of creepy how subs and donations work on Twitch.
The best dystopian is real world after all
It's one of those things where I'm starting to think I'm somehow too old to get it. The idea that I'd give someone money to watch them play a videogame is completely alien to me.
@@CanIHasThisName i dont do it myself, but i can sort of understand some of the reasons. After all, plently of people pay money to watch, say, their favourite footballer play, or to listen to a live performance form a singer, etc, etc. the fact that the barrier to entry to playing a video game is quite low is an added bonus, in that by watching a streamer, you can be in the position of listening to them explain their thoughts about a given tactic, or see their solution to a problem, then think "yhea, i might try that", then boot up the game to try it yourself. added to that the sucessful streamers are often not the most skilled players, but the most entertaining ones, ones who can blabber for hours in inane commentary, and play the game with half an eye on the chat. for some, it becomes like hanging out at a friends house while he plays a game.....just done virtually. like i said, i dont watch streams myself, but i can understand some of the drivers. it doesnt appeal to me, but i can see the appeal
@@xerxeskingofking You almost have a point. Problem is 99.99% of people dont do that, they are paying for friendship and attention. So many streamers wont even talk to you if you dont donate. I personally have never donated, but I see it happen. The subs have this feeling of superiority over non subs.
So eloquent and engaging; a pleasure to watch
The algorithm has been known since the early 60s. See "Algorithmic Probability". The lecturer starts out with a trivial example that elides the critical difference between "is" and "ought". AP provides what science (hence ostensibly the RI) provides: What "is" the case independent of subjective valuation. To get algorithmic decisions you need Sequential Decision Theory which is parameterized by a utility function, aka value system. SDT is "technology" or "engineering". AP & SDT taken together provide the top-down formalization of AGI called AIXI.
The thoughtful reader will now confront the question of how algorithmic probability could have been ignored in the social sciences for nearly half a century? There are a number of explanations for this but perhaps the most salient explanation is the lack of incentives to get at social truth. The Royal Society was founded precisely to separate is from ought questions during a period of religious enthusiasm. We now experience a world in which people have social theories to which the adhere with religious fervor. This has infected the academy.
After watching the rest of the video it is pretty clear that if this lecturer is representative of the royal society's value system the aforementioned religious fervor has infected the leukocyte stem cells.
“When a metric becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure.” -Goodheart’s Law.
Well said👍
@Steven Moore -Murphy's Law
I recall that concept dealt with at length in W. E. Deming's great work on Total Quality Control.
Could someone please explain that to me. It sounds profound, I'd like to get it.
@@ulalaFrugilega Some scientists, engineers, and designers may focus so much on hitting a certain goal that they don't care what gets worse in the process of reaching it. For example: many people want black Americans to make the exact amount of money as white Americans- that's a measure of money. The issue with this is even if they were given enough money, that wouldn't account for all kinds of factors that would put them back in lower statuses. So you'd have to perpetually keep redistributing to them taxpayer money in order to make up that racial wage gap that is there. That's a huge burden on the taxpayer. That's bad science. A better way to approach the issue is to find other ways to help them out without outright redistribution. Does that help?
You look so comfortable doing this, Tom. Your hundreds of video presentations have put you in good stead. Great presentation
columbus8myhw lol?
@@columbus8myhw You're right, I don't know Tom personally, but that doesn't mean I can't respect somebody because of their talent, and talking directly to someone in comments doesn't make us friends.
He's been doing public speaking and master of ceremony gigs on the side for years. He's used to this stuff.
@@columbus8myhw how would you know who scott's friends are?
It should be noted that Tom has done these types of talks for nearly 10 years. Although 10 years ago he was doing graph comedy for thinking digital.
Watching my favourite videos again. This should be on the „watch before using the internet for the first time“ list
On the parasocial relationship, it’s not exactly thinking someone’s your close and personal friend but it’s not so distant that it’s like enjoying a well written made up character in a book. I’d say it’s getting to learn about a real person and their life with the depth of a close friend /omnipotence. Attention from the person isn’t necessary for the fun of it, but are an additional treat. Even though I’ll never meet Michael Reeves, I’m still into his content and interested in his life. However, being noticed in a comment or signed merch or meet and greets are still pretty cool
Tom : "Videos that are not true are starting to get recommended less and less..." 5-minute crafts : *sweats profusely*
2 hours later.... Finishes 5 minute project.
I love when you hear him talking about setting up something, letting the viewers forget, and using it in the conclusion, and you then read the video title, remember what he said in the beginning, and realize that he is circumspectly talking about how he set up his own talk, which you actually forgot, leading into the realization that he used that technique to set up the technique itself. That is some beautiful meta goodness
Just like a good comedian.
What a magician
Will the Earth survive such _meta goodness?_ Or will humans merely make a _meta effort?_
*If you really like him, you almost can't see he's very pro-globalism (pro-billionaires), very left wing, anti-Freedom. Too bad... No matter how decent a presenter (even though he blatantly copies Derren Brown's persona, which I like), I can't follow anyone who spreads ideas that are diametrically against what I believe in. Much, much rather watch Jordan Peterson, a thousand times.*
This lecture overall has stood the test of time. The premise of this video is something I think about, and these para social relationships is something that is developed and magnified via social media. Overall, this is so important and given all the issues these algorithms create, they are attempting to solve the most complex of issues, where truly the details of it are esoteric, it's not a terrible solution at the moment. I don't think in general we give a lot of credit to the attempt at solving such a difficult problem, I appreciate the honest and different perspective. Great lecture Tom, its been a minute and its funny, I've always viewed you as more 'authoritative' voice probably due to how often you make it aware that you aren't. It creates more trust, and trust is a precondition to authoritative to some degree.
This was the lecture that put me on to Tom, and I’m very glad I found him, because he’s great, and also this lecture was great and remains very relevant.
im confused he was talking about anti vaxers before covid? the first covid cases were in november 2019 this was uploaded in october
@@fullsendit292antivax isn't a new thing, although it started going haywire in 1998.
I feel like the points about parasocial relationships and the points about fact-checking clash in this very messy way. Part of the very reason people crave these parasocial relationships is because they want to get their information from someone they trust; even if it's just information about drama or video games. Building trust through vulnerability and exposing your personal life including problems is how we operate in our personal lives and of course this is sinisterly manipulated for profit but I frankly don't know how else to do it. Even if you want to check someone's reputation for factual accuracy, you quickly run into a recursive "Who watches the watchmen" problem. If I'm not an expert and there's nigh-infinite content supporting every stance on every issue, how am I suppose to determine what's true? You can lecture me about how to verify things independently but you know most people aren't epistemologists, either. The simple, and deeply human solution has always been to find people you trust and that trust is built through human connection and vulnerability or at least a convincing simulacrum of it.
this is a very good point. As humans, we largely function by heuristics, because time-effective decisions are vastly more important for survival than highest possible accuracy (or so I'm told by sources I trusted :D), therefore we often need to identify people we can trust on certain topics so that *we* do not have to research them ourselves. But naturally trust is largely dependent on social relationships - after all, how can we believe something someone says if we don't believe the speaker is talking in our best interest? On the other hand, if the speaker is our friend (or we think he is), that part at least is taken care of. Obviously the problem here is that this very basic idea doesn't work if we believe someone to be our friend when he's actually not, which is often the case for these kinds of relationships. Naturally, the speaker could also earn viewer trust by demonstrating sound research principles, or good ability to argue their beliefs - but I can also say I wouldn't watch someone I don't like (because of any personal information I've acquired on them) despite those things being there.
This is a solid point. I feel this a lot when Hank Green vents about people needing to trust experts more (regarding climate change, usually, but also medical science). And I always think, "what are those experts doing to earn my trust? What are they doing to repair trust that has been broken?" Hank sometimes comes worryingly close to arguing that someone who is an authority figure is inherently trustworthy until proven otherwise, but that belief has obviously been shaped by his status (socioeconomic and otherwise): legal authorities, for example, tended to treat him with basic human decency and give him the benefit of the doubt. Political leaders and government authorities make laws prioritizing the wants and needs of people in his categories. Other people have learned from personal experience to distrust authorities until proven otherwise. The question of, "how can I earn and repair the trust of the public?" is a serious one, and it can be answered ethically or unethically. But it the problem won't be solved by people who hold "the public" in contempt.
I wish there was someway to save comments like yours from KZhead
@@Joe--Thanks! You can always screenshot it or copy/paste, I suppose. Sorry I uh... don't really have anything else to add to these responses!
+
37:10 "or ancient weapons" Almost got my favorite crossover episode
from around 42:30, about what kind of way of talking connects better with an audience. I have a personal experience Imagine you are in a classroom and the professor tells you: "Ok. If you think you understood this better than I do please give the class". And you go and do it. The teacher was mad that I didn't do it "proffesionally enough" when I was deliberatedly explaining the subject in a funny and relatable way (and fairly simplified, dumbed down) explicitly for the other classmates to follow along. Teacher was so butthurt anyway and adamant about how "but it's not the proper way to teach, you don't follow the methods and thats not a good way to teach" and tried to shut the conversation (and my teaching time) right there.
Bloke got butthurt that you managed to drill the knowledge into your peer's brain better than he did.
Awareness of how you participate in a system is vital. In this case, Tom as a creator, and us as consumers of this platform. Thanks 👍
I will add tho, the way the algorithm pushes to extremes isnt ALWAYS bad, it drove me from watching the slow mo guys all the way to watching star talk and PBS spacetime and Nilered and tons of other more "hardcore" sciences. Even to engineering and even to something like this explaining some of the science and reasons why the algorithms works and dont work.
he said as much, "you choose which way you fall"
"Candidly" reveals to audience that he'll sometimes set something up at the very beginning of a presentation and slam it down at the end... does that very thing in this very talk. Hats off, Tom.
Twice, no less.
And in the meantime he has reached double the amount of subscribers as mentioned in the intro of this video. Congrats Tom.