The triangle offense is one of the most iconic and successful schemes in NBA histoyr. Today we break down the history of this offense, and why it is no longer used in todays game.
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The Triangle is like the Tampa 2 of basketball. You can find its DNA in nearly every system today, but nobody in their right mind is running the pure system anymore.
@mauruhkatigaming48075 ай бұрын
Great Comparison!
@joshuawilliams76535 ай бұрын
I was thinking of the wishbone offense but Tampa 2 is a good one.
@jamesmarshall66195 ай бұрын
Great observation! I think the main problem with todays game is that teams dont use two post players any more. So the weakside action is different compared to what the triangle used to use (weakside post player that would either get a screen from one of the cutting guards or flash to the free throw line to initiate two man game with the top guard). This player is now in the weakside corner.
@liekegerritsen16205 ай бұрын
Or the west coast offense.
@Matt-wg3yb5 ай бұрын
Tampa 2 is just cover 2 with a LB in the middle. It wasn't anything different from what cover 2 was already. Not a good comparison
@slymcfly1234 ай бұрын
Will try to find it on KZhead, but Shaq explained it on Inside the NBA why the Knicks was unable to execute the triangle perfectly. There were spots where the players had a delayed reaction after the pass. Once they release the ball to pass it to the high post, the passer and the cutter should start moving, but the Knicks waited for the high post player to catch the ball before cutting.
@RavinManiac5 ай бұрын
It's amazing how the little things add up to the effectiveness of a scheme. You need a PG willing to hustle but also willing to take the emergency shot, an SG who can take it in ISO with the best shot-creating you can garner, a big man who can run plays even if he can't finish them and a wing player to cut quickly but also with the length to receive or set up. It's not just about putting 3-4 talented pieces and letting it fly.
@Sizdothyx5 ай бұрын
Great observation! Tex would always say: if you cant decide within a second you are holding up the offense
@maartenvz5 ай бұрын
Any success with that search?
@willhooke5 ай бұрын
@willhooke wasn't the whole segment, but this had some bits and pieces kzhead.infowiCOXF5GzPw?si=2fcLgBZ3JNXonR8v
@RavinManiac5 ай бұрын
Which is built on the concept of coaching and Shaq has said MULTIPLE TIMES THAT COACHES DO NOT MATTER. Shaq doesn’t understand basketball. Not then, not now.
@lynnerose78914 ай бұрын
The fact that GSW run a version of the triangle isn't surprising when you look at who their head coach is and where he came from.
@anandbenegal8 ай бұрын
not surprising the success they've had either. he incorporated both elements of two of the greatest head coaches into his own scheme (Phil Jackson and Pop)
@cjvaye995 ай бұрын
I just want to correct you The Piston were not Old, the majority of them were either the same age as the Bulls or a few years older than the Bulls. They were not Old
@sonnywoods684611 ай бұрын
Thank you people keep saying this false info
@Atmtoc10 ай бұрын
Thomas and Rodman was 28 and joe was 26
@Atmtoc10 ай бұрын
@@Atmtoc Isaiah Thomas and Joe Dumars were NOT 28 and 26. Rodman and Salley were young but everybody else was OLD. Mark Aguire, Bill Lambier, James Edwards, Rick Mahorn, Vinnie Johnson... check all their BIRTHDATES. The Pistons, on average, were 10 years older than the CORE of the Bulls. Rodman was the only 1 still young enough to be in the NBA during the Bulls 2nd 3-Peat.
@user-kn7ry8iz6x6 ай бұрын
They were past their prime but more importantly they weren’t healthy
@YungShaoKahnCito6 ай бұрын
@@user-kn7ry8iz6xWhy don't you just say their ages when they lost to the Bulls since you want everyone to believe they were old. Also give the ages of the Bulls when they won in '98.
@w.w.13485 ай бұрын
Part of it also is probably the removal of the hand checking, which has really increased offensive production, especially on the perimeter. It has made a slower more methodical offense like the triangle less necessary. Also better perimeter shooters that dont need the structure of the triangle all the time to find openings. But as you say, there are still elements of it in the game. The game is just too fast and too spaced out for a rigid 'triangle' setup to be optimal.
@WhatAMagician5 ай бұрын
The reason the triangle offense was successful was because of the constant movement of players off the ball. When offensive players move, it also forces the defensive player to move, and possibly make a mistake especially when players cross each other or loop around each other.
@cyclopsvision63705 ай бұрын
Wrong, the triangle has a few different major points according to Phil... #1 - makes every player on offense engaged with purpose whether they have the ball or not #2 - to create the most simple high percentage shot with the least amount of energy spent #3 - to control the tempo of the game & wear out the defense mentally & physically which in turn limits fast breaks against ur team Yes, the triangle is slow & methodical, even boring for the players involved, but the end result is undeniable when the team has a dominant pillar to take advantage of the action... 3peat, 3peat, 3peat, & a 2peat with a finals loss that could've been another 3peat... Yes, more 3 point shooters today & more 3 point shots early in the clock, but it's undisciplined basketball which creates blowouts & shooting yourselves outta games where just running the basic triangle essentially gave u a chance to always win the game... Yes, a lower scoring game, slower tempo, but always a chance to win by the end of the game & that's where the discipline of the triangle with a dominant player really shined & history proved that over & over again... The truth is most players & coaches don't have the discipline to run the offense... Kobe's & Phil's 1st year together, whenever Kobe went off script, Phil would yank Kobe out the game immediately, Kobe caught on by the All-Star break & the rest was history... MJ & Shaq never went off script but they both understood the concept of the offense from the beginning, to get the most simple high percentage shot while controlling tempo, saving energy with everybody involved literally playing the efficiently to give u the best chance of winning by the end... The Phil triangle would still win today, wouldn't be fun to watch or fun to play but winning trumps that... My best example is if u watched Jordan before the triangle compared to Jordan in the triangle, a lot less exciting, less amazing physical acts of athleticism, but his Jordan became a force in the triangle & that happened strictly cuz of the system & a dominant player plus team buying-in 100%... I truly believe if Bron played in the triangle he would've had more rings than MJ...
@dvo12453 ай бұрын
Combine this with Greg Popovich's Beautiful Game (Motion Strong and Motion Weak) = Warriors, thus the offense still relevant as coach Steve Kerr was part of the second Bulls 3-peat.
@markdwighttadina7655 Жыл бұрын
and was also part of 2 Spurs championship
@s4xtt10 ай бұрын
And Robert horry has more rings in Jordan. Everything you said is ridiculous
@Don_Winchester5 ай бұрын
@@Don_WinchesterHe played on triangle offense teams too.
@samihtameez85845 ай бұрын
It's a simple offense in theory, if you don't have the ball, don't just stand there, move to a different spot, and force the defensive player to move. Unfortunately, most players don't know how to play that way, they grow up playing isolation, with 4 players just standing around waiting for the outcome of a 1 on 1 confrontation to finish.
@cyclopsvision63705 ай бұрын
@@samihtameez8584 that has nothing to do with what I said.
@Don_Winchester5 ай бұрын
This is very well done. Informative and interesting. Thank you
@bobbyy.77624 ай бұрын
This content has exceeded all of my expectations. 👍👍
@BUY_YOUTUBE_VIEWS_665 Жыл бұрын
This comment has exceeded my expectations
@FloaterAlert Жыл бұрын
Triangle offense requires dominant post up player. Todays players barely post up at all
@kingcane58196 ай бұрын
I'm really asking out of curiosity here but did the bulls ever have a dominant post up player other than MJ? does the triangle offense require only 1 player to be dominant in the paint area?
@Johnnybur5 ай бұрын
The Warriors use elements of the triangle with Draymond while Steph and Klay run off screens for 3s and backcuts. Not surprising given Kerr played for Phil. It's just spread out waaay more and the movement algorithms are heavily modified and more free flowing. We ran the triangle in high school - it fuckn sucks unless you have friggn MJ or Kobe. It's like late-1950s basketball, it doesn't belong in modern basketball in its entirety.
@clapdrix725 ай бұрын
Today's NBA uses a form of triangle offense adapted to the modern game
@VanessaWong-yi5pe5 ай бұрын
as they should its inefficient and stagnates the offense
@jmgonzales77015 ай бұрын
Just look at Clippers. Kawhi and PG posts up every turn, yet it is easily defended by opponents. Post up offenses got surpassed by more intelligent modern defenses
@1vaultdweller5 ай бұрын
Amazing video ,extremely underrated . Im suprised by how little subs you have you deserve millions
@dimo6994 Жыл бұрын
I appreciate that it means a ton!
@FloaterAlert Жыл бұрын
He doesn't deserve it cuz his stupid
@shadowrain351310 ай бұрын
The Knicks didn’t have a engine at the pinch post, Carmelo played Zero D and the Heat ran the East. The Knicks didn’t have a chance
@Rebel-eq7ul9 ай бұрын
no its mostly because carmelo do not pass
@jmgonzales77017 ай бұрын
@@jmgonzales7701 yes Carmelo didn’t wanna read bad react properly but who on that Knicks team could pass and rebound like Rodman or Draymond, because Dennis be Draymond are passing hubs that the triangle needs, yes the Warriors have some of the Triangle in their system.
@Rebel-eq7ul7 ай бұрын
Principles, and Nuances of the triangle offense are still being implemented today in today"s Nba. Sacramento, Golden State and many other teams incorporate some sort of a variation of triangle schemes in their offensive plays.
@juanespino66435 ай бұрын
Yes, the video stated that quite clearly, thanks. 🙄
@RobertJ-vo4bk4 ай бұрын
In 5 years, there will be a new coach and a new team that will insist on using the triangle. This team will have a dominant post player and it will kill today’s defenses. Everyone will work to adjust and the NBA will go through another slowdown period. Styles contrast styles. Only reason why you don’t see this now, is because teams don’t want to. But the Lakers made the Conference Finals with a sorry 3 pt shooting percentage. That’s amazing when you consider everyone thinks you should have amazing three point shooting to get that far. All it takes is someone coming in doing a different style in sticking to it.
@supercsim5 ай бұрын
Despite what some people think, and I say this as an old head not some young kid, today's offenses are also more complicated. I know the narrative from too many people is today's offense isn't complicated but if you actually watch game tape it is. Yes, a lot of the teams play similarly as it's pace and space, but if you watch HOW they do it, it's not just running down and chucking threes in spite of what people say. The amount of motion, off ball screens, double screens, handoffs is far more significant today compared to the 90s. In the 90s the Bulls were running a complicated offense but today most teams run a ton of complex offensive sets to free up shooters. Of course, one of the reasons the triangle works is having Jordan, Shaq, and Kobe as those three can make just about any offense work. Put Jordan in today's game and with different but similarly complicated sets, Jordan would be able to penetrate more with more space and pass more due to how defenses shift. Triangle still has a lot of good offensive sets to use, it's just now teams have figured out better ways of diversifying their offensive sets.
@jamesmarshall66195 ай бұрын
🤡🤡🤡
@visualizeme-tz3ng5 ай бұрын
@@visualizeme-tz3ngyes let’s just type clown emoji because we wanna dickride the old NBA lmao hope you like skeletons my brotha
@strang77395 ай бұрын
Thank you fellow old head for appreciating the complexity of today's game. I'm was and still am a big fan of the triangle and it's just great to see a lot of its principles are used by many teams today (post split, blind pig mostly)
@liekegerritsen16205 ай бұрын
We need a lot more oldheads like you around. Someone who actually knows wtf they’re talking about
@goddammitnappa16175 ай бұрын
Yes today’s offences crazy complex compared to other eras. That also makes defence super taxing. I’m so tired of the romantization of old eras from people that were kids where they watched it.
@isabellascarpone45575 ай бұрын
Really hate the false narratives that the Pistons were old. They had tread on the tire, sure, but they werent old. That's just something that Isaiah and a couple other Bad Boys pushed to undercut their loss to the Bulls. Isaiah was injured in that 91 Ecf but i would not say they had "gotten old".
@jbellflower838 ай бұрын
Exactly, It’s crazy to think Zeke was only 29 when they got sweep from the Bulls.
@commonsense39215 ай бұрын
They may not be old, but a lot of them were past their prime
@bubot175 ай бұрын
@@bubot17the 1996 Bulls were past their prime to a greater degree
@VanessaWong-yi5pe5 ай бұрын
@@bubot17In 1991, Pistons double teamed and triple teamed Jordan who barely took any shot attempts. It never occured to them that Pippen was having an All-Time season. They focused on going after MJ while Pippen scored all the points. Pistons cannot win against a team with multiple high scorers.
@VanessaWong-yi5pe5 ай бұрын
@@bubot17Jordan was 35 in 1998. Rodman 37. Pippen 33.
@VanessaWong-yi5pe5 ай бұрын
The pistons were not old isiah was 29 , dumars was 30. The bulls were just a better team in 1991. That pistons got old is a fake narrative that lebron media plants like nick wright made up. Please do your home work. I enjoyed your video.
@kevinvest969311 ай бұрын
2nd oldest team in the league
@MrSlashblade10 ай бұрын
@MrSlashblade Dumar's was 28 and Isiah was 30 stop with your bull shit. They got beat because the bulls got better as a team. Not because they were past their prime.
@kevinvest969310 ай бұрын
Thank you, sir!!!!!
@RooseveltAliWashingtonX10 ай бұрын
🙄🙄🙄
@GrahamCStrouse10 күн бұрын
The triangle offense was great because Mike, Kobe, Pippen, and Shaq played in it. They made Phil an elite coach.
@w.w.13485 ай бұрын
And yet the triangle was used at other levels successfully. I don’t buy that myth at all. If MJ could have made a mediocre offense into a championship caliber one then he wouldn’t have had so many unsuccessful seasons before Jackson
@bobthabuilda15255 ай бұрын
@@bobthabuilda1525 It was definitely used successfully with Jordan, Pippen, Shaq, and Kobe. And I know we have different definitions of unsuccessful. But I'll take 6 chips out of the equivalent of 13 seasons any time. Heck, I'd take the 6 in 15 seasons. Somehow you can't hold down greatness.
@w.w.13485 ай бұрын
The best players win. Jerry Sloan said that you have to have thoroughbreds. A jackass does not win the Kentucky Derby. Triangle offense or not. When a team of so-so players wins it all with the triangle, I'll listen. Until then, it's just a gimmick.
@porcupinecraig5 ай бұрын
@bobthabuilda1525 so how come it didn't work with the Knicks? U forgot Phil brought in Derek Fisher to run that offense. One of the worst times in Knicks history. The offense is overrated. Phil was lucky enough to have all time greats playing it.
@alannurse74535 ай бұрын
@@alannurse7453yes it only works together with great players but great players only work together with a great system.
@stolensentience5 ай бұрын
Like Belichick after Brady, it’s only effective when you have the best player running it. He doesn’t have 11 without Jordan, Kobe and Shaq.
@vsop4me14 ай бұрын
A team like the nuggetd would be dominant fornyears if theybran the triangle. Jokic will be great for years and they wouldnt have to rely on other guys creating/making hard shots. Imagine jokic in the post withtheir big long finishers constantly moving and cutting to the basket.
@dash48005 ай бұрын
What is this nonsense of pistons getting old. Both teams are in their prime Pistons Starting 5 Isiah Thomas - 29 Joe Dumars - 27 Dennis Rodman - 29 Mark Aguirre - 32 Bill Laimbeer - 33 Avg age of the starting 5 : 30 Chicag Starting 5 Michael Jordan - 27 Scottie Pippin - 25 Horace Grant - 25 Bill Cartwright - 33 John Paxson - 30 Avg age of the starting 5 : 28
@vktheja10 ай бұрын
Thank you, sir!!!!!
@RooseveltAliWashingtonX10 ай бұрын
The Bulls core was almost a half decade younger. To say the Pistons were in their prime is an insane stretch given their health, they had just past their prime
@YungShaoKahnCito6 ай бұрын
And to also note the Bulls gave the Pistons their TOUGHEST matchup 2 years in the row. In 90’s the pistons on played ONE series more than the bulls. Finally, no one says they bulls were old when Jordan was 30 to 32 and 33 to 35 during the 1st and 2nd 3 peat.
@youngblood41275 ай бұрын
@@YungShaoKahnCito That's the core of the Bulls. And Detroit just won the year prior, you twerp 🤣
@exgeeinteractive5 ай бұрын
@@youngblood4127Facts
@jsain3605 ай бұрын
Let’s be clear, the triangle is not obsolete it’s just very difficult.
@MaxIsBackInTown5 ай бұрын
Lot’s of players today don’t have the basketball IQ to run the triangle and it also takes chemistry with your players and most of today’s coaches don’t have the expertise or patience to teach it! Plus u must have an MJ or Kobe to bail u out when things break down!
@lennybeason111010 ай бұрын
Thank you because I totally agree ball iq is low these days
@kevintownsend38409 ай бұрын
It's not because of basketball IQ. It's because there is a lack of continuity, lack of practice time and the death of Tex Winter. There's way too much player movement that teams don't have time to develop chemistry. The triangle is a read and react system, so the more familiar players are with each other the more natural it comes. There's less practice time than ever. Two-a-days are no more because of of the 2011 lockout, for lesser pay (players used to get 55% of revenue, now it's split 50% evenly) players agreed to an increase in benefits. One of those benefits was removal of two a day practices and veterans only need to attend one week of training camp. Only players 4 years or less need to attend the full 2 weeks of training camp. The triangle relies on alot practice time to learn. If you noticed one common trait with all the teams that won a NBA championship with the triangle is that Tex Winter was involved. He perfected the triangle and knew how to make adjustments in the system to adapt to different players and different defensive schemes. Everyone keeps thinking Phil Jackson was a master at it, but he was not. Tex was either an assistant or consultant on all those championship teams. When Tex retired as Laker consultant after the 2010 championship, the Lakers got swept by the Mavericks in 2011. Why? Because Phil didn't know how to make adjustments against the Mavericks defense within the triangle. In the NBA, anywhere Tex wasn't involved with the triangle, it completely failed. Jim Cleamons failed in Dallas, Kurt Rambis failed in Minnesota and Phil Jackson himself failed in New York.
@BurritoKingdom8 ай бұрын
Great breakdown!
@philblugh72096 ай бұрын
“don't have the basketball iq" 😂😂😂 The offense and defense today are the most complicated it's ever been in the entire history of basketball.
@LeGoat-235 ай бұрын
@@LeGoat-23what complicated? 😂
@cudackedees33275 ай бұрын
My own take: It's not WHAT they did, it's how they did and who they did it with. Everyone back then knew the triangle was coming but they could still not stop it well enough when the Bulls and Lakers utilized it.
@PizzaTime7275 ай бұрын
Basically, it's hard to find multifaceted NBA players nowadays. One of Phil Jackson's students is still using triangle offense in one of the national teams in Asia, and he looks like he's reviving the NT's success in the region.
@athenstar102 ай бұрын
8:00 "couldn't score outside of the paint" Excuse you. Dennis Rodman scoring is a matter of "choose not to" instead of "can't".
@chestercastaneda49203 ай бұрын
Dennis was an absolute offensive zero, dude.
@GrahamCStrouse10 күн бұрын
@@GrahamCStrouse What a trash take lol. If you check his scoring highlights for all his teams, he doesn't lack scoring ability.
@chestercastaneda492010 күн бұрын
I’m sorry but the spurs did not run a motion offense in the early 2000s. They literally just dumped it into Duncan and then everyone played off him lol.
@MrOneanddone915 ай бұрын
Triangle only truly worked because of how MJ and Kobe were uniquely awesome.
@tbone76795 ай бұрын
Really? Then explain how non-nba teams have used it to such success???
@89five3five4 ай бұрын
The Philippine Basketball team lately won the gold in the Asian Games basketball category using the Triangle offense
@dr.charlesedwardflorendobr39524 ай бұрын
In other words Tex is the real hero, Phil just got the credit.
@williammoore19805 ай бұрын
I think the key to the offense wasn't Phil Jackson but Tex Winter. Also teams are using another feature, especially the warriors called skinny post too.
@marianchicago40025 ай бұрын
It's right there. Steve Kerr is still using it. People don't see it sometimes because now it has expanded to include the 3 point line.And the fulcrum has switched from the post mna to whoever has the greatest gravity.
@ZappakeR5 ай бұрын
My dad played for Marquette in the early 50's under a young Tex Winter using the Triangle offense.
@ludoka58leo4 ай бұрын
It works great when you have MJ or Kobe, but then again any offense would with those players.....
@thatdudejojo942310 ай бұрын
If any offense would have worked with those players why didn’t they win a Championship BEFORE the triangle offense???
@commonsense39215 ай бұрын
and what did the triangle win WITHOUT those players before or since?@@commonsense3921
@thatdudejojo94235 ай бұрын
@@commonsense3921 cause mj was the offense before that and when they did implement the triangle in 1990 it wasnt at its best cause the bulls were still relying on mj to carry them when it failed. The triangle really took ground when jordans supporting cast got better in 91.
@MicroWave2335 ай бұрын
Those players played in multiple different offenses and didn’t win shit. Without Phil & the Triangle Jordan and Kobe aren’t the Champions they are now..
@VegasJedi5 ай бұрын
@VegasJedi that's not the point, the triangle takes good players to work, you need to know how to position yourself based on the defense and your teammates and you need guys to be able to score when they get open. It doesn't work if your teammates suck and can't run the play.
@MicroWave2335 ай бұрын
the triangle didnt die. teams just dont know how to run it or lack the players that fit the strategy. with elite post up players almost going instinct, the triangle is less likely to be used
@jadepelegrina11585 ай бұрын
It’s really just the rule changes. It’s now all about high usage rates, initiate contact in the paint mixed with kicking out to 3pt spam
@stolensentience5 ай бұрын
Who was the elite post up player of the Bulls during those 8 years? You really only need players that can read the defence and make the right decision. And they should be able to pass and cut. Although it might seem complicated, it's really not rocket science
@liekegerritsen16205 ай бұрын
@@liekegerritsen1620 Jordan was an elite post up
@stolensentience5 ай бұрын
Luc Longley literally had more of a post repertoire than what you will see from most anyone today. You don't necessarily need to have Shaq to run triangle
@TRJ22419875 ай бұрын
@@TRJ2241987 this is true but you don’t even need a dominant big you just need a capable big and possibly a dominant post player. You could also just have two very good wings, good off ball screeners/cutters/shooters, or just some form of “dominant” chemistry between 3 players who keep a dynamic distance between one another. It’s actually infinitely versatile and it can benefit all teams if they have enough discipline, chemistry, etc. It’s literally just a triangle, and a way to control space and movement. But the triangle doesn’t make much sense without at least a capable big man anchoring it somehow, I’d say that’s the only real requirement.
@stolensentience5 ай бұрын
Who needs a sophisticated, complex offense when traveling is legal and defending isn't? They gutted the rules to turn any half-competent high-schooler into a 20 point a game scorer. All NBA offenses look the same now, they'e running the pick and roll with 3 spot-up shooters standing at the arc. You can collapse on the guy driving the lane and give up the open 3, or guard the guy at the line and give up a layup. The modern NBA is a fucking sad joke.
@AaronMichaelLong5 ай бұрын
Triangle offense needs the players to be unselfish Yet people call Kobe a ball hog when he won 5 rings with it
@g-rom564 Жыл бұрын
TBF, the play of his teammates had a chunk to do with that. The Lakers have a winning record in games he didn't play; this strongly contrasts to LeBron, where most of his teams sucked when he wasn't on the court.
@PoochieCollins11 ай бұрын
Yeah, Shaq had nothing to do with three of them. Finals MVP , pfft!
@RooseveltAliWashingtonX10 ай бұрын
Lots of help thats why
@ravenniegos554210 ай бұрын
@@PoochieCollinsfact kobe has lot of good team mate
@ravenniegos554210 ай бұрын
This proves how much technical the game was back in the 1990s and even early 2000s compare to now . Todays players are just shooters and athletic af but fundamentally they’re not as good too the old NBA players
@paulwilliams20245 ай бұрын
I came here from videos of UVA basketball offensive problems. They run a mover blocker and a middle triangle type offense. These offenses are excellent, yet difficult to learn from what I know. In college at least, having a center that can post up and either score or pass the ball out of the post to a wing player, is very rare. I think that teams in the NBA still play some portion of the triangle, but it's a hard offense to learn.
@silentowlscribeАй бұрын
The league stopped letting teams play actual defense... so coaches stopped designing offensive strategies in general... it isn't just the triangle. It's evident in any and every game that you watch on TV today.
@anniehopkins84705 ай бұрын
also GS uses alot of moving screens that would be illegal in previous eras
@marqueslyde25257 ай бұрын
the Triangle is what most modern NBA offenses are derived from, but nobody runs the triangle straight up anymore because you need a truly elite centerpiece to make it work to begin with and modern defenses can zone in on it
@ellaerith31995 ай бұрын
The Philippine team and Coach Tim Cone in the Asian Games this year use the triangle system to win games and the Gold Medal. But its not advance as the NBA, merely use to facilitate sharing the ball. Modern offences I believe are influenced by the triangle system.
@itiongco225 ай бұрын
There's a coach in Philippines domestic league that still uses Triangle offense
@eoghaininfacundodiarmuid Жыл бұрын
Kangcone is more of a free flowing offense and he started to run once he became coach of Ginebra.
@louiejohnbuluran3 Жыл бұрын
triangle offense Is anti 3 point shot
@ricardolozano535610 ай бұрын
Yea thats coach tim cone
@killuawick801110 ай бұрын
The triangle is still used by GSW. There is more motion in it but the principals are the same. And no not Phil Jackson. Tex Winter created the Triangle at least the version of it in the NBA. It is still alive and well.
@Kalmar9179 ай бұрын
The Triple Post Offense Died with Tex Winter RIP
@floydturner295711 ай бұрын
Simple - no MJ, Pippen, Kobe or Shaq - no triangle...
@spoonbred7 ай бұрын
“Chicago swept the now aging Detroit Piston”. Bro the Pistons were not old. Chicago team was older when they got championship 4,5 and 6…
@awesomereviews15615 ай бұрын
The Triangle offense ONLY works with hall of fame players involved: Michael Jordan & Scottie Pippen - Kobe Bryant & Shaquille O'Neal - Kobe Bryant & Pau Gasol. Teams in NCAA did not win many, if any, championships with the Triangle Offense. Tex Winter tried in the NCAA, but to no avail. In the NBA it worked because of Phil and the hall of famers beforementioned.
@nikolaivista9204 ай бұрын
We used the triangle in soccer when I was in high school in the 70’s. Extremely effective.
@3mmdm324 ай бұрын
This video sounds like it was created by ChatGPT, and there was no editing done at all.
@mtanaka38445 ай бұрын
Quoted ChatGPT right in the middle of the video. It's a shame too because it would be interesting to have a knowledgeable discussion about the Triangle Offense and what happened to it but whoever did this video was not capable of doing the research to make it work.
@NotaPizzaGRL2 ай бұрын
We don't want all our NBA players to be highly skilled do we?? Lets not use the triangle
@respectingthewordpodcast5 ай бұрын
What happened? The NBA wants casual fans money, so they stopped calling fouls and prioritized high scoring.
@1011skarn5 ай бұрын
Philippines played with this offense last Asian Games and won gold.
@enzodapan50165 ай бұрын
Imagine (in theory) Steve Kerr goes into pure triangle along with another bull's/laker player as an assistant coach that understands the systems and makes just a playoff using it
@Bouipi5 ай бұрын
yo floater, any chance of a vid on ped's in the league? 🤌🏻💉 📈🏀
@logosfocus5 ай бұрын
The triangle is completely negated by the removal of the 'illegal defense' rule that forced defenses to either stay on their assigned player or help, without playing zone or staying in between their assignment and the ball handler. The triangle off ball movements only created usable spacing on the weak side thanks to that rule existing. This was the dumbest rule in bball by the way.
@MrMillefail4 ай бұрын
The game changed. That's what happened to the triangle. The Princeton offense was nice too. But the game changed and ît became obsolete
@sholovesholove46205 ай бұрын
Triangle is very much alive in the Philippines. Tim Cone is using it.
@alvinrexagulto60685 ай бұрын
I run the 98 bulls playbook on 2k with the Lakers and I never lose. We give up 75 ppg
@w00deey128 ай бұрын
Short version: Doesn’t work when players see themselves as brands and coaches can’t coach them
@Jeneric815 ай бұрын
Tim Cone uses the modernized triangle offense however it will only work effectively if the players have high basketball iq’s that steve kerr admitted he is having a hard time teaching it in gsw that is why he sought tim cones knowledge on how tim and his team does it.
@mariane24682 ай бұрын
The actual offense died since you can just set moving screens these days. The concepts of the triangle offense still live on
@gjfwang5 ай бұрын
NBA offenses are now iso with barely any ball movement. Just a whole lot of dribbling.
@wingman-19775 ай бұрын
The NBA has become an overgrown three point shoot out.
@wingman-19774 ай бұрын
I’d love to see Ray Allen and Michael Redd play in a modern offense.
@BrandonGavin_EDC5 ай бұрын
The modern offense of run the ball at the court and shoot a three, or run the ball at the court call for a screen then peel off and shoot a three? That's your modern offense right there....
@raurmanproductions34385 ай бұрын
Offenses change. Lot more possessions now with all the 3s going up. Centers shoot 3s now at a reasonable percentage… so set half court offenses are out the window
@sparkybuchta87174 ай бұрын
For the triangle to work, you need to excellent players. Or Michael Jordan
@alienman50005 ай бұрын
The Triangle is a perfect system as long as the players have the basketball IQ to actually run it properly.
@shure814 ай бұрын
The triangle was created specifically for MJ and Scottie to take advantage of their athleticism and length on the ball and their defense to offensive transition
@kevinholland75424 ай бұрын
The triangle was created before MJ and PIP were in the league. Lots of high school and college teams used it to great success.
@89five3five4 ай бұрын
Warriors still run them from time to time. You can see in the playoffs more of this. However, to be the system to be effective, you need good post up and passer players for this.
@rfpchar5 ай бұрын
Was just about to write this
@alainsurpris84255 ай бұрын
you need to either cut completely, or lower the volume a lot, of your background music. it distracts and detracts, and brings nothing positive. also, slow down and breathe. very good video essay other than those production issues. content wise you are very interesting.
@kevbobable5 ай бұрын
We might soon say the same with the Nellie Ball/small ball GSW era from Don Nelson to Kerr. We just saw how Kerr get exposed in Fiba with this style. Not every team has a 50/40/90 player like Curry with the right pieces are him. Size was the difference in FIBA that stopped the US team.
@AndrewL314135 ай бұрын
The Triangle is like the Left Wing Lock in hockey. As a system, it isn't anything special. But, it can take a talented team and get them on the same page, where the talent can take over. When things get rough, it gives the team a fall back point. The only thing brilliant about the Triangle offense is Phil got Jordan to buy in.
@Banzai514 ай бұрын
The NBA doesn't allow a true zone defense - they have a 3 second lane rule.
@noelc.8830Күн бұрын
i think the assistant coach is the one who headed the triangle offense. not phil. even doug is the head coach the triangle offense is being forced to the bulls it is just that doug does not want it
@tendousouji143445 ай бұрын
The NBA changed the rules where actual post play is irrelevant now and there’s no benefit to trying to play physical basketball: it’s a professional AAU summer league right now.
@blurplebear85734 ай бұрын
More defensive restriction, now the offense can be more free flowing negating the use of the triangle
@jpogigtxcr17782 ай бұрын
You are crazy. They ran the triangle in LA through Pau, too.
@lynnerose78915 ай бұрын
The triangle was a joke. Jordan and Pippen constantly made fun of it for years. Read The Jordan Rules book.
@porcupinecraig5 ай бұрын
What happened was the NBA started to ALLOW Teams to play ZONE DEFENSE. Before that playing a Zone was called ILLEGAL DEFENSE and it was a Technical Foul (on the 2nd Offense, I think - the 1st was a Warning). Triangle is designed to take away the DOUBLE TEAM and NBA Defense was all about finding a way to DOUBLE TEAM back in those days because 1 On 1 you cannot stop Jordan and Kobe and Shaq and the Elite Players of the Game. So you had to find ways to DOUBLE TEAM those guys. Then ZONE comes in and now finding ways to Dounle Team are everywhere vs the Triangle taking away the best Advantage the Triangle gives the Offense. So teams had to scrap it for the offenses of Today.
@user-kn7ry8iz6x6 ай бұрын
That was rarely called. Thats not even worth mentioning. Like Lebron and James Harden being allowed to travel
@VanessaWong-yi5pe5 ай бұрын
Illegal defense was as irrelevant as James Harden's traveling on every play. It was put there for a reason to keep game tempo. Not called if game pacing isnt negatively affected
@VanessaWong-yi5pe5 ай бұрын
You lack basketball knowledge and only care about slandering Jordan. KZhead has a thing called history. With popcorn I am watching you contradict yourself over months and years in an attempt to go after Jordan.
@VanessaWong-yi5pe5 ай бұрын
I took a look at every comment you made. Will continue to check history for updates on your new comments here on KZhead. You dont have a problem making contradictory comments, or you dont realize we can check history. It seems like your goal is to go after Jordan. Ill just be here to correct you
@VanessaWong-yi5pe5 ай бұрын
@@VanessaWong-yi5pe Really you had to use 4 POSTS for this nonsense. Rarely Called or Not it USeD TO BE A RULE and teams try to FOLLOW the Rules. It would really SUCK to play Defense for 24 seconds only to have Illegal Defense Called against you to give up a Point AND give the Offense the Ball Back to Score on you again.
@user-kn7ry8iz6x5 ай бұрын
Short answer they phased it out for a more visually pleasing style of playing
@TheRealMRGG855 ай бұрын
The triangle offense will still work in the NBA. But you need the right players and the right coach.
@averageguy12614 ай бұрын
Coach Tim Cone of PH plays triangle
@naaahhhx4 ай бұрын
The Triangle didn’t work in NY because of lazy players like Carmelo who wouldn’t buy into a team role unless forced like Olympic or on his last leg. Sitting out a yr until Portland and Dame saved his end of his career. Porzingus liked playing in the triangle but Euro players tend to have great IQ because they go to fundamental academy in their home country
@slickeddy20005 ай бұрын
This is simple. It never worked without having 2 of the top 10 players in the league.
@pelicanhill32514 ай бұрын
In soccer we call "tiki taka" Triangle passing
@danielferdinand6410 Жыл бұрын
Correct
@marvingamevlog522011 ай бұрын
And that's one of the fascinating things about this style of play. Despite the differences between the two sports, and despite the fact that two different sets of coaches (Johann Cruyff/Pep Guardiola for soccer and Tex Winner/Phil Jackson for basketball) are credited with coming up with and then the idea, at their peaks, the teams that played like that were simply unstoppable and won everything in their path
@AceTheSkylord5 ай бұрын
@@AceTheSkylord “Playing football is very simple, but playing simple football is the hardest thing there is.” Said cruijff!!! I think this quote doesn't only apply to football, but applies to all sports!
@danielferdinand64105 ай бұрын
nah bruh, the bulls didn't beat sweep the pistons because they got "old", it's because players like scottie and horace grant finally stepped up and played against the pistons instead of folding like previous series, leaving mj to shoulder and take all the punishment. the reason why kerr can implement the triangle so well is because he was part of the bulls dynasty that ran the system to perfection.
@crayrayc5 ай бұрын
Detroit was not an aging team when they got swept. Only bill is on his 30's w/c is 33. Every one else was on their prime.
@alexistansinsin81974 ай бұрын
Have anyone heard about the bermuda triangle? It's pretty cool
@golvellius68555 ай бұрын
It wad renamed to hybrid offense by sticker of Warriors.
@kaksmirknight53186 ай бұрын
Pat Summitt used it from time to time at Tennessee.
@Blacklist3245 ай бұрын
Golden State's offense succeeds because of great shooters, a high frequency of shots, the league clampdown on defense and refs looking the other way for traveling calls. There's no reason to run a complex offense in a league that gives preference to high scoring. A well-executed Triangle was a counter to excellent team defense. There are *no* excellent team defenses in the NBA anymore - every game now has defense that looks like the All-Star Game.
@MachiavellisThePrince3 ай бұрын
Derek Fisher said it. Players today aren't smart enough to run it. Today's players grow up in AAU then go pro after one semester of College. Foreign players grow up in a totally different culture. To run the Triangle effectively your players must be high basketball IQ guys with many years of experience. Basketball no longer has that.
@PoliticusRex6325 ай бұрын
I will not do the triangle offense. I won't I won't I won't. I want the ball!
@ericwilliams6265 ай бұрын
There's no need for a triangle if players just keep chucking up 3's
@louel92725 ай бұрын
"there may be no more famous offense of any sport than the triangle offense" - said in a true American fashion
@CartmanezPlays4 ай бұрын
With the non-existent defense now and dominant 3 point shooting, you don't need the triangle to score.
@rap32085 ай бұрын
Three point shooting, better spacing and a faster pace eliminated the tri
@robrig554 ай бұрын
The triangle offense became obsolete when the NBA reinstated zone defense as legal
@shakirjoseph91155 ай бұрын
Now is who makes more 3s. Zero strategy.
@Dangic235 ай бұрын
Which is why I would love to see teams still sign a post monster like Shaq(if any players come down the pipeline that are similar to that) and try this offense to throw teams off. I know the 3 is vastly superior but I still think dominate post play has a place.
@BrandonGavin_EDC5 ай бұрын
Facts. There are no defensive minded centers in the NBA other than Joel Embid or Anthony Davis. Which means a dominant post player could easily get 30 to 35 a night if you wanted them to and gave them a good pick and roll situation. Nash/Stoudemire. They're leaving easy buckets at a 70% clip on the table. If you look at LeBron's career he is only been successful because 80% of his buckets have come within 3 ft of the basket. He's not really a good basketball player by any metric
The Triangle is like the Tampa 2 of basketball. You can find its DNA in nearly every system today, but nobody in their right mind is running the pure system anymore.
Great Comparison!
I was thinking of the wishbone offense but Tampa 2 is a good one.
Great observation! I think the main problem with todays game is that teams dont use two post players any more. So the weakside action is different compared to what the triangle used to use (weakside post player that would either get a screen from one of the cutting guards or flash to the free throw line to initiate two man game with the top guard). This player is now in the weakside corner.
Or the west coast offense.
Tampa 2 is just cover 2 with a LB in the middle. It wasn't anything different from what cover 2 was already. Not a good comparison
Will try to find it on KZhead, but Shaq explained it on Inside the NBA why the Knicks was unable to execute the triangle perfectly. There were spots where the players had a delayed reaction after the pass. Once they release the ball to pass it to the high post, the passer and the cutter should start moving, but the Knicks waited for the high post player to catch the ball before cutting.
It's amazing how the little things add up to the effectiveness of a scheme. You need a PG willing to hustle but also willing to take the emergency shot, an SG who can take it in ISO with the best shot-creating you can garner, a big man who can run plays even if he can't finish them and a wing player to cut quickly but also with the length to receive or set up. It's not just about putting 3-4 talented pieces and letting it fly.
Great observation! Tex would always say: if you cant decide within a second you are holding up the offense
Any success with that search?
@willhooke wasn't the whole segment, but this had some bits and pieces kzhead.infowiCOXF5GzPw?si=2fcLgBZ3JNXonR8v
Which is built on the concept of coaching and Shaq has said MULTIPLE TIMES THAT COACHES DO NOT MATTER. Shaq doesn’t understand basketball. Not then, not now.
The fact that GSW run a version of the triangle isn't surprising when you look at who their head coach is and where he came from.
not surprising the success they've had either. he incorporated both elements of two of the greatest head coaches into his own scheme (Phil Jackson and Pop)
I just want to correct you The Piston were not Old, the majority of them were either the same age as the Bulls or a few years older than the Bulls. They were not Old
Thank you people keep saying this false info
Thomas and Rodman was 28 and joe was 26
@@Atmtoc Isaiah Thomas and Joe Dumars were NOT 28 and 26. Rodman and Salley were young but everybody else was OLD. Mark Aguire, Bill Lambier, James Edwards, Rick Mahorn, Vinnie Johnson... check all their BIRTHDATES. The Pistons, on average, were 10 years older than the CORE of the Bulls. Rodman was the only 1 still young enough to be in the NBA during the Bulls 2nd 3-Peat.
They were past their prime but more importantly they weren’t healthy
@@user-kn7ry8iz6xWhy don't you just say their ages when they lost to the Bulls since you want everyone to believe they were old. Also give the ages of the Bulls when they won in '98.
Part of it also is probably the removal of the hand checking, which has really increased offensive production, especially on the perimeter. It has made a slower more methodical offense like the triangle less necessary. Also better perimeter shooters that dont need the structure of the triangle all the time to find openings. But as you say, there are still elements of it in the game. The game is just too fast and too spaced out for a rigid 'triangle' setup to be optimal.
The reason the triangle offense was successful was because of the constant movement of players off the ball. When offensive players move, it also forces the defensive player to move, and possibly make a mistake especially when players cross each other or loop around each other.
Wrong, the triangle has a few different major points according to Phil... #1 - makes every player on offense engaged with purpose whether they have the ball or not #2 - to create the most simple high percentage shot with the least amount of energy spent #3 - to control the tempo of the game & wear out the defense mentally & physically which in turn limits fast breaks against ur team Yes, the triangle is slow & methodical, even boring for the players involved, but the end result is undeniable when the team has a dominant pillar to take advantage of the action... 3peat, 3peat, 3peat, & a 2peat with a finals loss that could've been another 3peat... Yes, more 3 point shooters today & more 3 point shots early in the clock, but it's undisciplined basketball which creates blowouts & shooting yourselves outta games where just running the basic triangle essentially gave u a chance to always win the game... Yes, a lower scoring game, slower tempo, but always a chance to win by the end of the game & that's where the discipline of the triangle with a dominant player really shined & history proved that over & over again... The truth is most players & coaches don't have the discipline to run the offense... Kobe's & Phil's 1st year together, whenever Kobe went off script, Phil would yank Kobe out the game immediately, Kobe caught on by the All-Star break & the rest was history... MJ & Shaq never went off script but they both understood the concept of the offense from the beginning, to get the most simple high percentage shot while controlling tempo, saving energy with everybody involved literally playing the efficiently to give u the best chance of winning by the end... The Phil triangle would still win today, wouldn't be fun to watch or fun to play but winning trumps that... My best example is if u watched Jordan before the triangle compared to Jordan in the triangle, a lot less exciting, less amazing physical acts of athleticism, but his Jordan became a force in the triangle & that happened strictly cuz of the system & a dominant player plus team buying-in 100%... I truly believe if Bron played in the triangle he would've had more rings than MJ...
Combine this with Greg Popovich's Beautiful Game (Motion Strong and Motion Weak) = Warriors, thus the offense still relevant as coach Steve Kerr was part of the second Bulls 3-peat.
and was also part of 2 Spurs championship
And Robert horry has more rings in Jordan. Everything you said is ridiculous
@@Don_WinchesterHe played on triangle offense teams too.
It's a simple offense in theory, if you don't have the ball, don't just stand there, move to a different spot, and force the defensive player to move. Unfortunately, most players don't know how to play that way, they grow up playing isolation, with 4 players just standing around waiting for the outcome of a 1 on 1 confrontation to finish.
@@samihtameez8584 that has nothing to do with what I said.
This is very well done. Informative and interesting. Thank you
This content has exceeded all of my expectations. 👍👍
This comment has exceeded my expectations
Triangle offense requires dominant post up player. Todays players barely post up at all
I'm really asking out of curiosity here but did the bulls ever have a dominant post up player other than MJ? does the triangle offense require only 1 player to be dominant in the paint area?
The Warriors use elements of the triangle with Draymond while Steph and Klay run off screens for 3s and backcuts. Not surprising given Kerr played for Phil. It's just spread out waaay more and the movement algorithms are heavily modified and more free flowing. We ran the triangle in high school - it fuckn sucks unless you have friggn MJ or Kobe. It's like late-1950s basketball, it doesn't belong in modern basketball in its entirety.
Today's NBA uses a form of triangle offense adapted to the modern game
as they should its inefficient and stagnates the offense
Just look at Clippers. Kawhi and PG posts up every turn, yet it is easily defended by opponents. Post up offenses got surpassed by more intelligent modern defenses
Amazing video ,extremely underrated . Im suprised by how little subs you have you deserve millions
I appreciate that it means a ton!
He doesn't deserve it cuz his stupid
The Knicks didn’t have a engine at the pinch post, Carmelo played Zero D and the Heat ran the East. The Knicks didn’t have a chance
no its mostly because carmelo do not pass
@@jmgonzales7701 yes Carmelo didn’t wanna read bad react properly but who on that Knicks team could pass and rebound like Rodman or Draymond, because Dennis be Draymond are passing hubs that the triangle needs, yes the Warriors have some of the Triangle in their system.
Principles, and Nuances of the triangle offense are still being implemented today in today"s Nba. Sacramento, Golden State and many other teams incorporate some sort of a variation of triangle schemes in their offensive plays.
Yes, the video stated that quite clearly, thanks. 🙄
In 5 years, there will be a new coach and a new team that will insist on using the triangle. This team will have a dominant post player and it will kill today’s defenses. Everyone will work to adjust and the NBA will go through another slowdown period. Styles contrast styles. Only reason why you don’t see this now, is because teams don’t want to. But the Lakers made the Conference Finals with a sorry 3 pt shooting percentage. That’s amazing when you consider everyone thinks you should have amazing three point shooting to get that far. All it takes is someone coming in doing a different style in sticking to it.
Despite what some people think, and I say this as an old head not some young kid, today's offenses are also more complicated. I know the narrative from too many people is today's offense isn't complicated but if you actually watch game tape it is. Yes, a lot of the teams play similarly as it's pace and space, but if you watch HOW they do it, it's not just running down and chucking threes in spite of what people say. The amount of motion, off ball screens, double screens, handoffs is far more significant today compared to the 90s. In the 90s the Bulls were running a complicated offense but today most teams run a ton of complex offensive sets to free up shooters. Of course, one of the reasons the triangle works is having Jordan, Shaq, and Kobe as those three can make just about any offense work. Put Jordan in today's game and with different but similarly complicated sets, Jordan would be able to penetrate more with more space and pass more due to how defenses shift. Triangle still has a lot of good offensive sets to use, it's just now teams have figured out better ways of diversifying their offensive sets.
🤡🤡🤡
@@visualizeme-tz3ngyes let’s just type clown emoji because we wanna dickride the old NBA lmao hope you like skeletons my brotha
Thank you fellow old head for appreciating the complexity of today's game. I'm was and still am a big fan of the triangle and it's just great to see a lot of its principles are used by many teams today (post split, blind pig mostly)
We need a lot more oldheads like you around. Someone who actually knows wtf they’re talking about
Yes today’s offences crazy complex compared to other eras. That also makes defence super taxing. I’m so tired of the romantization of old eras from people that were kids where they watched it.
Really hate the false narratives that the Pistons were old. They had tread on the tire, sure, but they werent old. That's just something that Isaiah and a couple other Bad Boys pushed to undercut their loss to the Bulls. Isaiah was injured in that 91 Ecf but i would not say they had "gotten old".
Exactly, It’s crazy to think Zeke was only 29 when they got sweep from the Bulls.
They may not be old, but a lot of them were past their prime
@@bubot17the 1996 Bulls were past their prime to a greater degree
@@bubot17In 1991, Pistons double teamed and triple teamed Jordan who barely took any shot attempts. It never occured to them that Pippen was having an All-Time season. They focused on going after MJ while Pippen scored all the points. Pistons cannot win against a team with multiple high scorers.
@@bubot17Jordan was 35 in 1998. Rodman 37. Pippen 33.
The pistons were not old isiah was 29 , dumars was 30. The bulls were just a better team in 1991. That pistons got old is a fake narrative that lebron media plants like nick wright made up. Please do your home work. I enjoyed your video.
2nd oldest team in the league
@MrSlashblade Dumar's was 28 and Isiah was 30 stop with your bull shit. They got beat because the bulls got better as a team. Not because they were past their prime.
Thank you, sir!!!!!
🙄🙄🙄
The triangle offense was great because Mike, Kobe, Pippen, and Shaq played in it. They made Phil an elite coach.
And yet the triangle was used at other levels successfully. I don’t buy that myth at all. If MJ could have made a mediocre offense into a championship caliber one then he wouldn’t have had so many unsuccessful seasons before Jackson
@@bobthabuilda1525 It was definitely used successfully with Jordan, Pippen, Shaq, and Kobe. And I know we have different definitions of unsuccessful. But I'll take 6 chips out of the equivalent of 13 seasons any time. Heck, I'd take the 6 in 15 seasons. Somehow you can't hold down greatness.
The best players win. Jerry Sloan said that you have to have thoroughbreds. A jackass does not win the Kentucky Derby. Triangle offense or not. When a team of so-so players wins it all with the triangle, I'll listen. Until then, it's just a gimmick.
@bobthabuilda1525 so how come it didn't work with the Knicks? U forgot Phil brought in Derek Fisher to run that offense. One of the worst times in Knicks history. The offense is overrated. Phil was lucky enough to have all time greats playing it.
@@alannurse7453yes it only works together with great players but great players only work together with a great system.
Like Belichick after Brady, it’s only effective when you have the best player running it. He doesn’t have 11 without Jordan, Kobe and Shaq.
A team like the nuggetd would be dominant fornyears if theybran the triangle. Jokic will be great for years and they wouldnt have to rely on other guys creating/making hard shots. Imagine jokic in the post withtheir big long finishers constantly moving and cutting to the basket.
What is this nonsense of pistons getting old. Both teams are in their prime Pistons Starting 5 Isiah Thomas - 29 Joe Dumars - 27 Dennis Rodman - 29 Mark Aguirre - 32 Bill Laimbeer - 33 Avg age of the starting 5 : 30 Chicag Starting 5 Michael Jordan - 27 Scottie Pippin - 25 Horace Grant - 25 Bill Cartwright - 33 John Paxson - 30 Avg age of the starting 5 : 28
Thank you, sir!!!!!
The Bulls core was almost a half decade younger. To say the Pistons were in their prime is an insane stretch given their health, they had just past their prime
And to also note the Bulls gave the Pistons their TOUGHEST matchup 2 years in the row. In 90’s the pistons on played ONE series more than the bulls. Finally, no one says they bulls were old when Jordan was 30 to 32 and 33 to 35 during the 1st and 2nd 3 peat.
@@YungShaoKahnCito That's the core of the Bulls. And Detroit just won the year prior, you twerp 🤣
@@youngblood4127Facts
Let’s be clear, the triangle is not obsolete it’s just very difficult.
Lot’s of players today don’t have the basketball IQ to run the triangle and it also takes chemistry with your players and most of today’s coaches don’t have the expertise or patience to teach it! Plus u must have an MJ or Kobe to bail u out when things break down!
Thank you because I totally agree ball iq is low these days
It's not because of basketball IQ. It's because there is a lack of continuity, lack of practice time and the death of Tex Winter. There's way too much player movement that teams don't have time to develop chemistry. The triangle is a read and react system, so the more familiar players are with each other the more natural it comes. There's less practice time than ever. Two-a-days are no more because of of the 2011 lockout, for lesser pay (players used to get 55% of revenue, now it's split 50% evenly) players agreed to an increase in benefits. One of those benefits was removal of two a day practices and veterans only need to attend one week of training camp. Only players 4 years or less need to attend the full 2 weeks of training camp. The triangle relies on alot practice time to learn. If you noticed one common trait with all the teams that won a NBA championship with the triangle is that Tex Winter was involved. He perfected the triangle and knew how to make adjustments in the system to adapt to different players and different defensive schemes. Everyone keeps thinking Phil Jackson was a master at it, but he was not. Tex was either an assistant or consultant on all those championship teams. When Tex retired as Laker consultant after the 2010 championship, the Lakers got swept by the Mavericks in 2011. Why? Because Phil didn't know how to make adjustments against the Mavericks defense within the triangle. In the NBA, anywhere Tex wasn't involved with the triangle, it completely failed. Jim Cleamons failed in Dallas, Kurt Rambis failed in Minnesota and Phil Jackson himself failed in New York.
Great breakdown!
“don't have the basketball iq" 😂😂😂 The offense and defense today are the most complicated it's ever been in the entire history of basketball.
@@LeGoat-23what complicated? 😂
My own take: It's not WHAT they did, it's how they did and who they did it with. Everyone back then knew the triangle was coming but they could still not stop it well enough when the Bulls and Lakers utilized it.
Basically, it's hard to find multifaceted NBA players nowadays. One of Phil Jackson's students is still using triangle offense in one of the national teams in Asia, and he looks like he's reviving the NT's success in the region.
8:00 "couldn't score outside of the paint" Excuse you. Dennis Rodman scoring is a matter of "choose not to" instead of "can't".
Dennis was an absolute offensive zero, dude.
@@GrahamCStrouse What a trash take lol. If you check his scoring highlights for all his teams, he doesn't lack scoring ability.
I’m sorry but the spurs did not run a motion offense in the early 2000s. They literally just dumped it into Duncan and then everyone played off him lol.
Triangle only truly worked because of how MJ and Kobe were uniquely awesome.
Really? Then explain how non-nba teams have used it to such success???
The Philippine Basketball team lately won the gold in the Asian Games basketball category using the Triangle offense
In other words Tex is the real hero, Phil just got the credit.
I think the key to the offense wasn't Phil Jackson but Tex Winter. Also teams are using another feature, especially the warriors called skinny post too.
It's right there. Steve Kerr is still using it. People don't see it sometimes because now it has expanded to include the 3 point line.And the fulcrum has switched from the post mna to whoever has the greatest gravity.
My dad played for Marquette in the early 50's under a young Tex Winter using the Triangle offense.
It works great when you have MJ or Kobe, but then again any offense would with those players.....
If any offense would have worked with those players why didn’t they win a Championship BEFORE the triangle offense???
and what did the triangle win WITHOUT those players before or since?@@commonsense3921
@@commonsense3921 cause mj was the offense before that and when they did implement the triangle in 1990 it wasnt at its best cause the bulls were still relying on mj to carry them when it failed. The triangle really took ground when jordans supporting cast got better in 91.
Those players played in multiple different offenses and didn’t win shit. Without Phil & the Triangle Jordan and Kobe aren’t the Champions they are now..
@VegasJedi that's not the point, the triangle takes good players to work, you need to know how to position yourself based on the defense and your teammates and you need guys to be able to score when they get open. It doesn't work if your teammates suck and can't run the play.
the triangle didnt die. teams just dont know how to run it or lack the players that fit the strategy. with elite post up players almost going instinct, the triangle is less likely to be used
It’s really just the rule changes. It’s now all about high usage rates, initiate contact in the paint mixed with kicking out to 3pt spam
Who was the elite post up player of the Bulls during those 8 years? You really only need players that can read the defence and make the right decision. And they should be able to pass and cut. Although it might seem complicated, it's really not rocket science
@@liekegerritsen1620 Jordan was an elite post up
Luc Longley literally had more of a post repertoire than what you will see from most anyone today. You don't necessarily need to have Shaq to run triangle
@@TRJ2241987 this is true but you don’t even need a dominant big you just need a capable big and possibly a dominant post player. You could also just have two very good wings, good off ball screeners/cutters/shooters, or just some form of “dominant” chemistry between 3 players who keep a dynamic distance between one another. It’s actually infinitely versatile and it can benefit all teams if they have enough discipline, chemistry, etc. It’s literally just a triangle, and a way to control space and movement. But the triangle doesn’t make much sense without at least a capable big man anchoring it somehow, I’d say that’s the only real requirement.
Who needs a sophisticated, complex offense when traveling is legal and defending isn't? They gutted the rules to turn any half-competent high-schooler into a 20 point a game scorer. All NBA offenses look the same now, they'e running the pick and roll with 3 spot-up shooters standing at the arc. You can collapse on the guy driving the lane and give up the open 3, or guard the guy at the line and give up a layup. The modern NBA is a fucking sad joke.
Triangle offense needs the players to be unselfish Yet people call Kobe a ball hog when he won 5 rings with it
TBF, the play of his teammates had a chunk to do with that. The Lakers have a winning record in games he didn't play; this strongly contrasts to LeBron, where most of his teams sucked when he wasn't on the court.
Yeah, Shaq had nothing to do with three of them. Finals MVP , pfft!
Lots of help thats why
@@PoochieCollinsfact kobe has lot of good team mate
This proves how much technical the game was back in the 1990s and even early 2000s compare to now . Todays players are just shooters and athletic af but fundamentally they’re not as good too the old NBA players
I came here from videos of UVA basketball offensive problems. They run a mover blocker and a middle triangle type offense. These offenses are excellent, yet difficult to learn from what I know. In college at least, having a center that can post up and either score or pass the ball out of the post to a wing player, is very rare. I think that teams in the NBA still play some portion of the triangle, but it's a hard offense to learn.
The league stopped letting teams play actual defense... so coaches stopped designing offensive strategies in general... it isn't just the triangle. It's evident in any and every game that you watch on TV today.
also GS uses alot of moving screens that would be illegal in previous eras
the Triangle is what most modern NBA offenses are derived from, but nobody runs the triangle straight up anymore because you need a truly elite centerpiece to make it work to begin with and modern defenses can zone in on it
The Philippine team and Coach Tim Cone in the Asian Games this year use the triangle system to win games and the Gold Medal. But its not advance as the NBA, merely use to facilitate sharing the ball. Modern offences I believe are influenced by the triangle system.
There's a coach in Philippines domestic league that still uses Triangle offense
Kangcone is more of a free flowing offense and he started to run once he became coach of Ginebra.
triangle offense Is anti 3 point shot
Yea thats coach tim cone
The triangle is still used by GSW. There is more motion in it but the principals are the same. And no not Phil Jackson. Tex Winter created the Triangle at least the version of it in the NBA. It is still alive and well.
The Triple Post Offense Died with Tex Winter RIP
Simple - no MJ, Pippen, Kobe or Shaq - no triangle...
“Chicago swept the now aging Detroit Piston”. Bro the Pistons were not old. Chicago team was older when they got championship 4,5 and 6…
The Triangle offense ONLY works with hall of fame players involved: Michael Jordan & Scottie Pippen - Kobe Bryant & Shaquille O'Neal - Kobe Bryant & Pau Gasol. Teams in NCAA did not win many, if any, championships with the Triangle Offense. Tex Winter tried in the NCAA, but to no avail. In the NBA it worked because of Phil and the hall of famers beforementioned.
We used the triangle in soccer when I was in high school in the 70’s. Extremely effective.
This video sounds like it was created by ChatGPT, and there was no editing done at all.
Quoted ChatGPT right in the middle of the video. It's a shame too because it would be interesting to have a knowledgeable discussion about the Triangle Offense and what happened to it but whoever did this video was not capable of doing the research to make it work.
We don't want all our NBA players to be highly skilled do we?? Lets not use the triangle
What happened? The NBA wants casual fans money, so they stopped calling fouls and prioritized high scoring.
Philippines played with this offense last Asian Games and won gold.
Imagine (in theory) Steve Kerr goes into pure triangle along with another bull's/laker player as an assistant coach that understands the systems and makes just a playoff using it
yo floater, any chance of a vid on ped's in the league? 🤌🏻💉 📈🏀
The triangle is completely negated by the removal of the 'illegal defense' rule that forced defenses to either stay on their assigned player or help, without playing zone or staying in between their assignment and the ball handler. The triangle off ball movements only created usable spacing on the weak side thanks to that rule existing. This was the dumbest rule in bball by the way.
The game changed. That's what happened to the triangle. The Princeton offense was nice too. But the game changed and ît became obsolete
Triangle is very much alive in the Philippines. Tim Cone is using it.
I run the 98 bulls playbook on 2k with the Lakers and I never lose. We give up 75 ppg
Short version: Doesn’t work when players see themselves as brands and coaches can’t coach them
Tim Cone uses the modernized triangle offense however it will only work effectively if the players have high basketball iq’s that steve kerr admitted he is having a hard time teaching it in gsw that is why he sought tim cones knowledge on how tim and his team does it.
The actual offense died since you can just set moving screens these days. The concepts of the triangle offense still live on
NBA offenses are now iso with barely any ball movement. Just a whole lot of dribbling.
The NBA has become an overgrown three point shoot out.
I’d love to see Ray Allen and Michael Redd play in a modern offense.
The modern offense of run the ball at the court and shoot a three, or run the ball at the court call for a screen then peel off and shoot a three? That's your modern offense right there....
Offenses change. Lot more possessions now with all the 3s going up. Centers shoot 3s now at a reasonable percentage… so set half court offenses are out the window
For the triangle to work, you need to excellent players. Or Michael Jordan
The Triangle is a perfect system as long as the players have the basketball IQ to actually run it properly.
The triangle was created specifically for MJ and Scottie to take advantage of their athleticism and length on the ball and their defense to offensive transition
The triangle was created before MJ and PIP were in the league. Lots of high school and college teams used it to great success.
Warriors still run them from time to time. You can see in the playoffs more of this. However, to be the system to be effective, you need good post up and passer players for this.
Was just about to write this
you need to either cut completely, or lower the volume a lot, of your background music. it distracts and detracts, and brings nothing positive. also, slow down and breathe. very good video essay other than those production issues. content wise you are very interesting.
We might soon say the same with the Nellie Ball/small ball GSW era from Don Nelson to Kerr. We just saw how Kerr get exposed in Fiba with this style. Not every team has a 50/40/90 player like Curry with the right pieces are him. Size was the difference in FIBA that stopped the US team.
The Triangle is like the Left Wing Lock in hockey. As a system, it isn't anything special. But, it can take a talented team and get them on the same page, where the talent can take over. When things get rough, it gives the team a fall back point. The only thing brilliant about the Triangle offense is Phil got Jordan to buy in.
The NBA doesn't allow a true zone defense - they have a 3 second lane rule.
i think the assistant coach is the one who headed the triangle offense. not phil. even doug is the head coach the triangle offense is being forced to the bulls it is just that doug does not want it
The NBA changed the rules where actual post play is irrelevant now and there’s no benefit to trying to play physical basketball: it’s a professional AAU summer league right now.
More defensive restriction, now the offense can be more free flowing negating the use of the triangle
You are crazy. They ran the triangle in LA through Pau, too.
The triangle was a joke. Jordan and Pippen constantly made fun of it for years. Read The Jordan Rules book.
What happened was the NBA started to ALLOW Teams to play ZONE DEFENSE. Before that playing a Zone was called ILLEGAL DEFENSE and it was a Technical Foul (on the 2nd Offense, I think - the 1st was a Warning). Triangle is designed to take away the DOUBLE TEAM and NBA Defense was all about finding a way to DOUBLE TEAM back in those days because 1 On 1 you cannot stop Jordan and Kobe and Shaq and the Elite Players of the Game. So you had to find ways to DOUBLE TEAM those guys. Then ZONE comes in and now finding ways to Dounle Team are everywhere vs the Triangle taking away the best Advantage the Triangle gives the Offense. So teams had to scrap it for the offenses of Today.
That was rarely called. Thats not even worth mentioning. Like Lebron and James Harden being allowed to travel
Illegal defense was as irrelevant as James Harden's traveling on every play. It was put there for a reason to keep game tempo. Not called if game pacing isnt negatively affected
You lack basketball knowledge and only care about slandering Jordan. KZhead has a thing called history. With popcorn I am watching you contradict yourself over months and years in an attempt to go after Jordan.
I took a look at every comment you made. Will continue to check history for updates on your new comments here on KZhead. You dont have a problem making contradictory comments, or you dont realize we can check history. It seems like your goal is to go after Jordan. Ill just be here to correct you
@@VanessaWong-yi5pe Really you had to use 4 POSTS for this nonsense. Rarely Called or Not it USeD TO BE A RULE and teams try to FOLLOW the Rules. It would really SUCK to play Defense for 24 seconds only to have Illegal Defense Called against you to give up a Point AND give the Offense the Ball Back to Score on you again.
Short answer they phased it out for a more visually pleasing style of playing
The triangle offense will still work in the NBA. But you need the right players and the right coach.
Coach Tim Cone of PH plays triangle
The Triangle didn’t work in NY because of lazy players like Carmelo who wouldn’t buy into a team role unless forced like Olympic or on his last leg. Sitting out a yr until Portland and Dame saved his end of his career. Porzingus liked playing in the triangle but Euro players tend to have great IQ because they go to fundamental academy in their home country
This is simple. It never worked without having 2 of the top 10 players in the league.
In soccer we call "tiki taka" Triangle passing
Correct
And that's one of the fascinating things about this style of play. Despite the differences between the two sports, and despite the fact that two different sets of coaches (Johann Cruyff/Pep Guardiola for soccer and Tex Winner/Phil Jackson for basketball) are credited with coming up with and then the idea, at their peaks, the teams that played like that were simply unstoppable and won everything in their path
@@AceTheSkylord “Playing football is very simple, but playing simple football is the hardest thing there is.” Said cruijff!!! I think this quote doesn't only apply to football, but applies to all sports!
nah bruh, the bulls didn't beat sweep the pistons because they got "old", it's because players like scottie and horace grant finally stepped up and played against the pistons instead of folding like previous series, leaving mj to shoulder and take all the punishment. the reason why kerr can implement the triangle so well is because he was part of the bulls dynasty that ran the system to perfection.
Detroit was not an aging team when they got swept. Only bill is on his 30's w/c is 33. Every one else was on their prime.
Have anyone heard about the bermuda triangle? It's pretty cool
It wad renamed to hybrid offense by sticker of Warriors.
Pat Summitt used it from time to time at Tennessee.
Golden State's offense succeeds because of great shooters, a high frequency of shots, the league clampdown on defense and refs looking the other way for traveling calls. There's no reason to run a complex offense in a league that gives preference to high scoring. A well-executed Triangle was a counter to excellent team defense. There are *no* excellent team defenses in the NBA anymore - every game now has defense that looks like the All-Star Game.
Derek Fisher said it. Players today aren't smart enough to run it. Today's players grow up in AAU then go pro after one semester of College. Foreign players grow up in a totally different culture. To run the Triangle effectively your players must be high basketball IQ guys with many years of experience. Basketball no longer has that.
I will not do the triangle offense. I won't I won't I won't. I want the ball!
There's no need for a triangle if players just keep chucking up 3's
"there may be no more famous offense of any sport than the triangle offense" - said in a true American fashion
With the non-existent defense now and dominant 3 point shooting, you don't need the triangle to score.
Three point shooting, better spacing and a faster pace eliminated the tri
The triangle offense became obsolete when the NBA reinstated zone defense as legal
Now is who makes more 3s. Zero strategy.
Which is why I would love to see teams still sign a post monster like Shaq(if any players come down the pipeline that are similar to that) and try this offense to throw teams off. I know the 3 is vastly superior but I still think dominate post play has a place.
Facts. There are no defensive minded centers in the NBA other than Joel Embid or Anthony Davis. Which means a dominant post player could easily get 30 to 35 a night if you wanted them to and gave them a good pick and roll situation. Nash/Stoudemire. They're leaving easy buckets at a 70% clip on the table. If you look at LeBron's career he is only been successful because 80% of his buckets have come within 3 ft of the basket. He's not really a good basketball player by any metric
Just stand on the perimeter and wait for the ball