Does a fast gearbox generate more electricity?
In this video we will generate electricity using an extremely high gear ratio gearbox. Does the fast speed help generator more electricity? Let's find out.
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#gearbox #electricity #generator #gearratio
As others have pointed out, you need to measure voltage and current at the same time. Also, when measuring current, your multimeter is set to mA, but your leads are connected to the unfused 10A sockets. This will give unreliable results.
Yep, the more amperage drawn, the most the voltage will drop. And the more connection the more resistance would be present is true also, thus unreliable results.
Yeap. But we need to recognize that the results are pretty accurate. You are absolutely right about the error, but it's just not that negligible when we're up to huge machines.
Yeah you need to plot resistance against voltage to actually get any sort of idea as to what power it produces
0:17 its funny when the big one spawns
BUENAS TARDES DONDE PUEDO CONSEGUIRLO COMPLETO COMO ESTA EN EL VIDEO
This man sure does love his 3D-printed gearboxes
He should make metal ones and put them to torque test
@GlueEater87 people who don’t
@GlueEater87 neither here lol
yeah, just start up a company and partner up with another company who makes valves
More gear boxes
You need to measure current and voltage at the same time, NOT measure unloaded voltage and then multiply by the short circuit current.
That’s the chines way for any Produkt they advertise 😂 But you right he needs an powermeter or he should measure the voltage over nen given resistance.
would it give massively different results?
@@Comfy_Bed Well in the video he also mentioned that he couldn't spin the motor as fast as he could when he connected the leads. So it would be best if he connected some wire with known resistance or use a low value resistor and measure the voltage drop through the resistor then use P=V^2/R formula.
I agree. You need to consider that when the supply is loaded, the voltage drops. You need to calculate the dropped voltage by the amps being drawn to figure out the real wattage. Most generators have a 'sweet spot' where they're most efficient too. ie, if you over-load the generator and pull too much current, the voltage will drop significantly. Since the power is voltage * amps, it actually reduces the power delivering capacity. So let's say you could pull up to 2A before the voltage drop starts to happen. If we're generating 10V and pulling 500mA, we have 10V * 0.5A = 5W of power. But we could draw 1.9A and get 1.9A * 10V = 19W of power. Now we'll draw 3A which drops the voltage down to about 2.5V... 2.5V * 3A = 7.5W of power. Most modern phone battery charging circuits take advantage of this to charge the battery as quickly as possible with any power supply - They'll ramp up the current until they detect voltage drop. At which point they'll knock back the current draw by a fraction. This gives the hightest current available for the 5V supply over USB.
The test also need to be done on same motors to prove the variable "speed" has any effect
You need a flywheel on the fast gear set to maintain speed and store energy momentum. For the big generator just get a slight faster speed and wala!
r/BoneAppleTea
voilá!
Nice work on the gears, looks like you've stepped things up a lot in how you've designed/put these gears together. Question though: You're measuring the voltage without load, and the current is being measured with the meter acting as a dead short.
He is using permanent magnet DC motors as generators, therefore the output will be DC. But yeah, voltage and current must be measured at the same time.
@@IZuzivowoI Cheers, I've updated comment. Not sure what I was thinking
You didn't ask a question
@@DiacnikYT It's implied, i'm questioning their methods because measuring voltage without load, and measuring current as a dead short is meaningless.
Great video! But unfortunately as others have pointed out, you didn't measure power correctly. It doesn't look like anyone has explained how you should really do it, so try this: You should buy a power resistor. A 100 Ω resistor rated for 25 W would work fine and only costs like $5. BTW power resistors can also greatly exceed their power ratings for short periods of time, so it's fine if you produce over 25 W. Once you have it, connect it to the output leads of the generator, and hook up your multimeter to measure the voltage across it, and do some simple math. If you have a 100 Ω resistor and see 12 V across it, then you know your current because 12 V ÷ 100 Ω = 0.12 A. You'll also know how much power you're generating because 12 V × 0.12 A = 1.44 W. Good luck to you! PS. I don't know if you'd be interested, but I have a bunch of experience in 3D printing entire electric motors and have dabbled into 3D printing magnetic gearboxes. It might be cool to collaborate on something.
thanks for the info bro
Yep. Knew measuring voltage and current separately was not the correct idea. My question is, would it be correct to measure power by using two multimeters at the same time? One for current and one for voltage?
Getting the gearboxes to spin faster: mounting them with bolts/screws would be a great idea so you didn't have to hold them down for the spinning. This may look like a heavier-duty more industrial stand than what you've been printing, but that way, you could both get a faster and more consistent turn of the crank. And, speaking of the crank, if you increased the distance between the crank shaft and crank handle, you'll have significantly increased leverage, and thus an easier time to spin quickly and consistently. Seeing a metal gearbox would be fascinating. It would be a great way to compare the friction outputs of similar gearboxes with different materials; not to mention spin speed and electrical output differences.
You need to do comparisons on a standard load not just the open load voltages or currents. Although its ok for simple scenarios. You can also start with the law of conservation of energy or just the fact that if gear ratios increase or decrease speed, they do the inverse for torque.
i have been wondering this for ages thank you so much im gonna subscribe since you did this.
A fun little test. and thanks for that, I really like your videos. But it just does not quite work out in reality. You will need to measure the energy you are getting into the system at the same time to get an idea of the output. And you can not measure voltage and amp separately, it must be done simultaneously with 2 multimeters. In the test you use 2 different generators, it will certainly also give different results. Suggestion: how about setting a motor to drive the input shaft, use the same generator at different gears, measure amp and voltage simultaneously.
3:27 if you are wondering why he doesn't just hold its handle. it's because for some reason when it's connected to something it's meant to power it becomes extremely difficult to move and feels almost impossible to get a good grip on
The “some reason” is Lenz’s law
That makes sense from a mechanical perspective as well. If you're riding a road bike, you can pedal the smaller gear ratio a lot faster to pick up speed and get going, and the big gear ratio, while requiring much more force, outputs a lot more power.
Saving this for the power comparisons, but would still like to see the gear stack work on the large motor
You should try covering the gears with magnets and surround it with a lot of copper wire to make your own generator
On that high speed gearbox, you need a bushing on the crank handle hole. This will spread out the forces, prevent enlarging of the hole itself, and make for a more secure crank handle. A bushing and bearing would work even better, but as we see in the video, even trying to use that crank for only a short bit wallowed out the hole it was in.
Also a larger crank could help with ease of use
Thanks for this!
I'd be interested to see you use a higher gear ratio for more spins, attach the bigger motor, extend the handle way out at about 75°, then add a heavy weight at the end. The handle will only turn roughly a quarter but the spins a power generated should be high.
may I know why you still avoid planetary gears for this gear up ratio ?
I was actually thinking about making a planetary gear video soon!
@@3DPrinterAcademy please do.
@@3DPrinterAcademy if you need a hand I can provide the STLS for a planetary… we can work on the ratios together
@@3DPrinterAcademy what generator was the larger one?
Nice work!
Better bearings would greatly narrow the margin between high speed low torque, Vs. Low speed, high torque. The gears themselves, look really good. If they spun on precision ball bearings, that would reduce the losses of going through that many stages. I would start with a good crank bearing, since that's the one that takes the most severe radial load. making the axle longer, to put space between the bearings, will make them more stable against the cantilever loading caused by turning the crank by hand.
Instead of a hand crank could a heavy weight on line that unravels as it falls (slowly due to the resistanceof the gear ratio), maybe the height of the room for prolonged duration?
Somthing that would probably help you is getting a solid surface you can turn better plus use triangles to help with the turnes and make the gears closer together
2:05 You are using your multimeter in 2mA range, so you arent getting 200mA from that motor, you are getting less than 1mA (0.234mA), and 2:43 you set it into 20mA range, so from that bigger motor you are getting 2-3mA - barerly to light up an LED, you can connect LED and see how much power you are really generating. For generating power purposes you should always use brushless DC motors, because they use permament magnets
I don't know what u r talking about but I definitely got an impression that the KZhead guy has really messed it up.
I was looking at this as a means to make a gravity "battery" more efficient, as in needing the weight to fall more slowly, thus decreasing the distance it has to fall. Over a certain weight, the torque would be irrelevant, for all practical purposes. A flywheel might help even further, though it might not be necessary.
As someone who rebuilds industrial DC generators for steel mill conditions, I can tell you that most of the MG sets run at 1200-1800 rpm but I have seen some slower. They have a synchronous motor (an AC stator with a DC rotating field element that maintains a consistent speed without slippage) coupled to several (separately excited or series excited) DC generators on both ends of the motor. There is a direct mathematical relation of work done in HP to the output voltage and supplied possible amperage output. Horsepower = Torque x RPM / 5,252 and 1 HP = 745.7 Watts. Knowing this, you can deduce that the rpm can vary but what really leads to a higher output is the torque in the system. You can build a DC generator to maintain a certain EMF at variable rpm by adjusting of your excitation field in response (the bread and butter of series excited generators) but the actual amp(flow) output under load leans more on the torque of your driving force. AC generators are a completely different beast and are more dependent on RPM over torque with the speed being the deciding factor in the output frequency. Most run at 3600+ rpm with 3600 being more common in the United States in order to make that 60Hz frequency.
Multiplying Voltage with nothing else connected by short-circuit current does not yield achievable output power. You will have to attach a decent load resistor and measure Voltage AND power under that load. What constitutes a decent load depends on the specifics of the generator. If you don't have those specifics, measure it's resistance while it is stationary and use that value for the load resistor.
Any generator will provide more electricity if driven at a higher speed but there will be an optimal speed above which the output will begin to fall as mechanical and electrical losses increase. The losses will appear as heat.
What would happen if you were able to drop a weight from a height as input to drive the crank? Already out of my wheelhouse ...would adding a capacitor after generator help to reduce the start force needed?
Great description! Finally someone addressed the power vs speed principle
So amazing video and explaining
Well, you need to connect a voltmeter and a currentmeter together since the open circuit voltage and the loaded voltages are diffetent. And also when the probe is in the 10A range, switch the meter to 10A range.
You need to calculate watts with a resistor in line because the voltage will drop some so if the 12v drops to 6v that's big or if the 3v dropped to 2 or 1
May i suggest adding small heavy flywheel to start the first momentum and help for the next momentum
What if you designed a small custom motor that is specifically designed for the small and fast gear setup? You did mention the coils and magnets play a big role in current generation so perhaps making an hybrid motor will improve the output?
Motors and generators with higher frequenci are generaly smaller than wlow frechency machines with the same power output , so less cost on materials
3:58 love this he already knew all his views have common electrical sense
i think bearing will help to use handle and improve the stability and use it insted of manual pusing gear using hands
seems like, for this to be a fair comparison, you'd have to use the same alternator for both setups. different sized alternators will have different efficiencies.
Das pretty sick man.
the speed to power generation potential of your gearbox will directly correlate to what kind of induction motor your using, if your using a high RPM low torque motor then high speed will work better but if your using a low RPM high torque motor the opposite will apply, that's why they use high torque for water turbines and low torque for wind turbines
Does it matter which direction the generator is turned? If it was turned in one direction for an hour & then the other direction for an hour, is there are generator that would work in both directions?
I imagine that you could run quite a few small generators on that setup though. I'm curious how many you could fit and what those numbers would look like.
Maybe if he extended the small gear on the last one he could move the large gear out further and put a bunch around the big gear
I would like to see a full metal version of the gearbox
Its interesting, in general we could describe de open load voltage of a CC machine in terms of speed and exciting magnetic flux, for permanent magnets we could say that the magnetix flux is going to be constant, so your open load voltage is going to be speed dependent only. Besides that the amount of mechanical power you inject in a system is equal to torque times rotational speed en rad/s. You have to consider that the amount of mechanical power wasn't exactly the same for both cases. Whatever it was a nice experiment though :) .
One flywheel added on motor rotor and make last spike wheel gear with one direction free rotation mechanism will provide greater afficiency
Could an unwinding spring be used to automate the crank for some time? A big, strong spring like the ones used in garage door openers? And for that matter, wouldn't increasing the time it takes for the first gear to revolve once (maybe by adding gears to the system then compensating for the added necessary force with a stronger spring?) mean that the spring would take longer to unwind, thus elongating automation? How far could that be taken? How long could an unwinding spring automate the system? If it could. I'm no engineer and I'm sure the nature of my questions reveal my ignorance. But I thought it seemed like a simple enough mechanism with potential.
Better to connect the motor wires to a known resistor, then calculate power via: Power = (Voltage^2) / Resistance
What would happen if you swapped the gearboxes though? Which would make more power then?
hi, what are your dimensions of the gears? for a science project :) thx
Apply a significant load and there will be great difficulty keeping up higher RPMs.
Do it! Do a metal version of this!
i instantly know the big one should be better if you have the same watts of input bcs of the resistance on the gears
Yep. More 3d printed gears means more friction and less efficiency.
you can put motor at the input so you can generate big volt on output (generator)?
generators have a perfect speed at which they have the highest productivity, but the input energy also matters - the harder you crank the handle the more power you put in, but lots of gears invite a lot of friction, which is power lost. Makes sense a bigger generator will be more productive. When you hooked up to measure current, the multimeter became a load, and that resistance of the generator was the effectiveness of converting input energy to current. The small one didnt give much resistance, which means its not an effective generator.
Can you like make gear box like this which like makes the last gear spin soo fast that in a hour atleast you can power up your whole house for 10 minutes, it would be such a energy saver
I see the handle is very loose on the fast gearbox, making it metal would be a good decision, if you oiled it.
what if you connect the small motor into the place where the handle of the big generator is and power the small motor with the current produced by the big generator
Damn, the devs knew what we would try to do. We will find infinite power!
Add a flywheel to your design so you can produce the torque you need to push the big generator
Can you explain how to start 3d printing from scrach.
Make the gears from metal!! That would be great to see
Just find something that is in the middle ratio... spins fast enough for higher voltage on the big generator but still able to crank easy enough
It might help if you make the handle (part of the handle you hold) spin freely so you don't have to use a looser grip, also I'm no genius but I think by using a filament that has less friction you might be able to get faster gears, I'm a beyblade maker and I try to incorporate gimmicks into the beyblades I make, so if you could show how to make a disc expand out when spinning fast enough?
You can just buy metal gears from SDP/SI and it would be a lot cheaper than 3D printing them.
I don't see that have compound gears unfortunately
@@3DPrinterAcademy do you have access to a lathe? Drill out a pinion big enough for bearings to go inside, drill out a spur with an interference fit with the hub of the pinion, press fit (or thermal press fit) them together.
Could you do this with a drone motor for the small one instead please Or even with an axial Flux motor. There's a bunch of different designs. You should also use I think they're called herringbone gears. They've got teeth shaped like a V
On top of what others have pointed out, have you made sure you're inputting the same amount of wattage into each system? Sure, the small one produced less, but how do you know this isn't just because you were inputting less energy?
there's a problem in your calculating . When you measure the voltege across the motor , the internal impedence's motor is zero. Because it's like an open circuit (the impedence of a multimeter has to be very high, in this way the current flow is almost zero). So you can get an accurate voltage's value. But when you connect the motor to the tester, for measure the current, in this case the impedance of a tester is almost zero, so the motor sees two impedances, that of tester and internal motor. You have so a drop voltage that you're not considering.
Use ball bearings from rod to gear, for smoothening the spin
The short answer is yes, unless it has a voltage regulator on it. Because otherwise a alternator would create more voltage as rpms increase, but it doesn't create more than 14.?? Volts at any given time.
Anyone who knows a bit about friction knows the answer up front. Still a nice Video
Please put up where you got the big generator
He can try using the power outcome of the gearbox to spin the gearbox.
Your multimeter looks exactly like mine.
As a control I think he should be using the same generators for both gear ratios. Metal and nice bearings will help so he can crank of them as hard as he wants
2:22 when you dont use the handle, and create a false reading
Great gear builds. Too many variables at once tho. You change one variable at a time while doing the scientific method for accurate results.
How about high speed gear ratio spin with big generator? Does it make better than before?
You should try this with planetary gear sets
If you make a model out of metal try to get the tolerances as tight as possible
2:50 "When you're measuring current [amps], there's a lot of resistance in the motor." I've been using a multimeter my whole long life, but I don't remember ever reading this in the instructions. In fact, Googling text instructions about this produced nothing. It was only when I looked for video instructions on how to measure generator current that anyone mentioned this. Learn something new every day! 🤔
Nice 👍
Do you carry out live streams?
You should make a self cranking gear box for you to bypass cranking it yourself
No. It's about how much power you input into the gear, minus the friction loss, times the efficiency of the generator.
In theory, yes; theres a major increase of torque required and on top of that quite a bit of energy is lost to friction and entropy.
he says that in the video later on I see
Did you measure the force applied ?
Would it be economically feasible to create a human-powered generator using a gear ratio like this?
if you spin a brushed dc motor without a load (Nothing hooked up to it) fast enough. the commutators will still arc and flash over! WHY
What would happen if you take away a gear off of the smaller diagram would it put out the same voltage, more, or less. I assume it would be easyier to sustain the rpms since a lower ratio but would lower rpms mean less power? If so would having that setup on the big one produce more power ik tourqe would be the issue so hypothetically speaking Please i need answers and i know theres someone smarter than me that knows
Try increasing the length of the lever for more of that sweet, sweet, leverage.
Do a full metal one
Try making the crank longer, thus you get more torque
Seems counter intuitive because I thought the equations would be related to KE = 1/2 mv^2. The fast gear spins 15 times faster than the slow one. 15 ^2 is 225 so I expected the fast gear would create more power. I thought all energy variables (kinetic, potential, electrical) were interchangeable such as watts and joules.
Conservation of energy works everywhere. Did you account for the mass that is being rotated in both accounts? And also the efficiency of the motors to convert mechanical energy into electrical energy?
@@mindprobe3587 I wondered about the mass comparison of the last gear and how this translates to the energy of flywheels of different mass.
U should spin a magnet. Spinning faster brings more electricity and no frictions.
4:20 vid length. Nice
Ahhh time to make a toast *spinning intensifies* Toast pops YEEEA
just use one of those fast spinning things and you can also use your hand for manual work
Why are they always limited to a crank to generate energy? what happened to the spring-loaded toys?
*sees video length* Nice
Nice.
how do you make a gear spin forever
What happens if you add even more gears will it go extremely fast?