Channel Subscription: bit.ly/2Vfd4mO
FREE eBook Guide for Road Cyclists: www.camnicholls.com/free-guide
About Neill Stanbury: neillsbikefit.com.au/
Sore or numb hands while cycling?
This is a very common problem for all cyclists but in particular road cyclists. The reason being, there is typically more weight forward on the bike and this causes numbness, tingling, or even soreness in hands for many. So in this video today, I am joined again by Neill Stanbury, the expert bike fitter who provides a detailed overview of why this happens and a simple way we can stop this from happening.
#numb #hands #cycling
Have watched the entire series of videos. Having gone through multiple fittings (none worked), I took some of Neill’s tips and applied it to my bikes: seat height, cleats position (Speedplay), different saddle. Trial and error (and some pain), but happy to report, got it dialed pretty darn good. First thing I noticed, the weight is not longer on my hands. More balanced on the bike. Neck pain, gone!!! I have more energy on longer rides and recovery is much better. Thanks for the videos!!! It really helped me.
Awesome to hear, thanks for sharing Manny. Cam
Thanks Manny that will be $345 :-)
So what angle or height worked for you? You kept the cockpit same? Lower height or higher? Stem length or height?
Understanding your fitness level is important as well.... -> Starting again after a few years.... my belly does not allow me to have good bike form. Knowing it will evolve and watching these style of videos helps me to cherry pick what I change and when.
@@Red-ju4mi added one 5mm spacer under the stem…moved the cleats back and to the outside (Speedplay)…changed to a wider saddle (probably the biggest improvement felt). Everything else was the same.
Good analysis. I'm a big guy and triceps start to blow out after only 10 miles or so. Over 30 years I've experimented with everything possible and no relief. Another aspect that effects weight on the bars is the gear(s) you typically push. The more effort on the pedals the lighter the weight on the bars. If you spin a lot, you'll have more weight on the bars. Push harder gears and you lighten the load. Going uphill lightens my weight on the bars because of the amount of force I'm using on the pedals.
What a humble chap.
"I have amazing core strength" 9:05
I've been fitting cyclists since 1987. I have been to multiple training programs (including a popular motion-capture system) and received certificates for completion of their methods. Yet, the one common error that I see in most fitting methods is too much emphasis on KOPS. Too many fitters are still being taught that KOPS is an absolute neccessity. They treat it as gospel. I've come to believe that knee of pedal spindle or knee over end of crank is a place to start from and nothing more. The fore/aft balance of the rider's torso by way of positioning the saddle and therefore the pelvis is critical. Every now and then, I push the saddle forward to set one of my own bikes up centering around KOPS just to see what happens. My hands, arms, and neck get far too much pressure every time. Then I push the saddle back, and life is easy again. Excellent video, my good man.
100%
Informative video, and I think there are some factors you could consider: - Twisty roads, bad pavement, riding in traffic, and riding in a large group of amateur cyclists lead to increased hand pressure on the bars - Shorter rides < 3 hours with very good conditions (straight roads, good pavement, no traffic) leads to a good posture and less weight on your hands - Longer rides lead to fatigue of the back muscles, leading to more weight on your hands - Being concious/self-aware of the pressure you're placing on your hands, and using your core to lessen the load helps - Riding seated up hill lessens pressure on the hands - Riding out of the seat puts pressure on the hands The balance test is very good. I have found that frame geometry and core exercises (stretching, plank, etc) have a major impact on pressure on the hands.
Every time I watch your videos I spend the whole afternoon tweaking my bike. When will I ride again, sir??
This is really well explained. I believe this to be the best video on the subject on the whole of KZhead. Thank you Cam, thank you Neil!
Dear Cam and Dr. Neill I just really wanted to reach out to you to thank you for all the educational videos that you continue to share with the community, I just wanted to share my personal gratitude and with this comment to let you know how much you have personally helped me, I am new to the cycling world so I had no idea why my hands were getting numbed ? my wrist were killing me ?my quads were so tight ?and why I had so much pain on my left knee? or a clue as to how to really set up your bike ? 95% of this issues have been taken care of and fixed thanks to your knowledge and passion for the sport, I just really wanted to thank you for everything that you do for all of us we greatly appreciate it, thank you and keep up the awesome, amazing work, have a very blessed day
Great videos Cam. The ones with Neill Stanbury have been gold. Keep up the good work.
This series on bike fit are pure gold!
Best video I've seen on the subject - and I've searched a lot for this issue. Great job.
"Twitchy apparatus". So accurate. Specially in the side wind.
I wish someone had better warned me, lol.
No hands messing around then hit by crosswind. Guy passing me in a truck gave me a thumbs up for not falling.
Watched this video yesterday, adjusted my cleats from the advise. Wow!!!! Much less numbness in my right hand, better engagement of thigh, gluteus, less knee pain. And conquered the 4 hills on my short 36k route, without getting out of the saddle, and I was quicker.
Awesome stuff thanks for sharing Andrew
The guys a genius. Imagine being that knowledgable about anything! Kudos mate
It’s called hard work. I’m pretty sure he didn’t just wake up a cycling fit genius and physio one morning!
I have no need to imagine
I deal a lot of carpal tunnel compression from vibrating tools and it’s something that’s taken very seriously so watching this video really chimed with me, Great insight and advice on this topic thanks guys 👍🏻.
Hi, I'm a hand therapist with a love for cycling. Numbness in cycling is something a passion subject for me. One thing I missed in this video (not necessarily the solution, that was great, but more the explanation) is the ulnar nerve. Yes the Median nerve can be an issue but the ulnar nerve is actually more often compressed in cycling. A compression of the ulnar nerve is actually called Cyclists Palsy as well. The angle of the elbow when cycling also causes stress in the ulnar nerve along the medial epicondyl. I think it is important to differentiate the various complaints people can experience (whether it would be a median/ulnar nerve issue of distal/proximal compression). Something that can help in that regard is localising the compression and seeing what sensation issues arise further on in the nerves' pathway. It's a great indicator where to start looking for bike fitting or posture adjustments.
You're right Anne, but the short video didn't leave enough time for such a technical discussion. I find plenty of riders seem to get some sort of referred numbness from FCU trigger points, and needling/trigger pointing the FCU resolves the problem once the position is sorted out. You tend to see it in bricklayers and carpenters a bit too due to the sustained tension required from gripping and ulnar deviation. Perhaps they have a fascial entrapment of the ulnar nerve due to an anatomical variant of the pathway of the nerve? Not sure but it's common!
Good note, this is exactly what I had, gave me elbow and finger issues for a while. I had some old school high reach bars (100) and switched to smaller ergo bars now (75) and my hands feel great now, previously when on the hoods I felt overextended and had my hand in a weird tilted position.
@john pope pelotonphysiotherapy.co.uk
Neill Stanbury I noticed you mentioned tricep soreness. Personally when I ride in an aero position with my elbows at a more or less 90° angle holding the hoods I get tricep soreness. However I can get into an equally aero position on the drops with no pain. Any idea on this?
You can also wrap something around your bars so their circumference gets larger. Here is a cut and paste from my previous comment E H 2 minutes ago (edited) OK, so I play guitar and I was having trouble years ago. I came up with a great solution. It might look a little unusual, but comfort over beauty.... right? I just do it on the drops because that is where I have the biggest problem. - Remove all of the tape - Wrap the bars with masking tape or something rough - Wrap the bars with some soft material like the cushion from old shorts. I guess you could use a towel too - TIGHTLY wrap the masking tape around the cushion. This step might take time because it needs to be tight - Wrap your bar tape over everything When I'm done, the circumference is roughly the size of an empty toilet paper roll. The final product isn't much softer than what you had originally, however the larger circumference ends up spreading you weight out over a greater area. I have never had it slip even in hot sweaty days or rainy days. Maybe if you are Cavendish, it might not be ideal, but NONE OF US ARE HIM! Try it once for a few long rides and you won't care what it looks like. And honestly, nobody has ever noticed mine
This bike fitter has so many useful tips and insights. Big fan!
I often used to get numbness in my hands mountain biking regardless of how tightly I gripped the handlebars. This turned out to be due to tightness in the neck!
Most hand numbness is a neck issue more than anything else
excellent point. I have compressed nerves in my cervical spine which doesn't help with the hand numbness. this is definitely a major contributor to hand numbness for sure 👍
Great. Those tips are always valuable. Informative and we’ll structure. At the same time I cannot help but think that this man is showing us only the tip of the iceberg of his knowledge ;)
Oh man I needed this 10/10 Thanks Cam!
Great info: Pilates technique that engages the very lower abs which can happen separately to the breathing muscles in the stomach is a key to this. If you can engage this muscle the position on the bike is really strong and a rider doesn’t need to hold themselves up by their hands.
What a clear, concise and insightful video. Thanks.
I never had this problem on my old (cyclocross) bike, and now that I've got a new one I've struggled with this, even though I tried to set things up similarly. But with slow seat height/angle/cleat adjustments, it's starting to get better. I'm happy that this video came up so I can see exactly what else to do to fix this.
Thanks for sharing Jan
Perfectly explained. Thank you for clarifying
Excellent video!
Awesome series, learning more every video!
Thanks for this. Great video. I'm heavy and wondered whether this was the case as I've had some wicked numbness in the hands.
Great topic. Thanks Cam & Neil. Leroy.
Love these videos with Neil - keep em coming Cam.
New to proper cycling and so grateful to have come across this channel and to Neil for the tips and fits! *crush* ! thanks guys
Cheers mate, RCA training tips show has moved to another channel as an FYI kzhead.info/tools/eW11HsUiXwnRbPqNlh6fHw.html
Hi, so glad I watched this video, been struggling since I bought my road bike, was on verge of selling it and even put it on Marketplace. I was so uncomfortable on my bike, it was unstable when riding and I was suffering from numb hands and even sore knees. My problem was the seat angle was so far tilted forward without realising I took the rail on my ism saddle as the level but it’s not it’s the front part of the seat. Since levelling I feel stable with soft hand grip which has improved the stability of the bike and I did the take hands off bars test today and it felt great. Thanks mate for your video...
Please get a professional bike fit and you’ll love your bike.
A Spinning class led by a road biker, where I was allowed to have the same bike, fitted with my own saddle, for every session, helped me a lot with body balance on the real road. Indoors, I wasn’t distracted by every other factor that riding in traffic sends, to interfere with your body awareness.
Both my wife and I have found related but slightly different solutions. In each case we use bars that put weight on TWO points. The forearm AND the hand. I use carefully adjusted figure 8 bars and my wife uses air bars. In both cases by sharing the load it reduces the forces on the wrist. The only thing I notice is that if I pedal very gently, such as slowly with a tail wind, then the legs are lifting less of the weight and more is on both the saddle and on the arms. So strangely more problems if I am taking an easy day than if I am having a hard work out.
Lets be honest we all love cycling videos this is just what I need to get it going the blood I love it. I always watch these before I go out and get my body moving. I love when I always watch one of these, and then put up my heavy playlist I love like Delta Parole and then I just go haaaaard!!!! Tactic hasnt let me down yet.
Truly wonderful videos. I think I have some permanent damage around the carpal nerve, which if it were not for this video I would have not known. I recently changed my stem to a longer one, and it helps. I'll try the balance method to find a better seat position. I never had any problems on drop bar road bikes, just with a flat bar cyclocross!
Excellent informative vid. Thanks Cam
Great video on the subject. I think he's correct balance is the key. One way that has helped me is to ride with to ride with the area between my thumb and index finger on the break hood. This keeps me from griping the handle bar too tight. I'll try and test my balance to see if I can improve that.
love listening to knowledgeable people
Great vid - very clear, concise (but *very* informative), and thoughtful, but I was surprised that the issue of stabilization didn't get a bit more focused attention. Fatigue in the triceps can also be caused by overuse due to weak or short (tight) musculature in the lower back (mulitfidus, and probably transverse abdominus) *primarily*, and glutes and hamstrings *secondarily*; once that part of "the core" fails, the job of supporting and stablizing the torso is left (as the vid mentions) to the triceps...and hands. (I mention this only because "the core" - at least in the U.S. - is usually an euphemism for "the abs" and maaaaybe the obliques, neither of which are especially important for the topic at-hand...so to speak. ;) ) Good mobility and flexibility in the lower back can also help to account for sub-optimal saddles and seat positions. Anyway, thanks for the vid!!
very helpful. moved my saddle back a bit helps wonders.
Wish I had a guy like Neil where I live!
This was very informative, and a bit of bad news, bodybuilding and in love with cycling 😂
Very interesting. Thanks for the information. I’ve got stuff there too look out for. As I’m getting a new bike. Ok it’s electric. But I’ve hade multiple knee, back shoulders and elbow surgeries. Resulting in a dropped left foot and mega weakness in the left leg and just to top everything off, two new hips. Hens the electric bike. But you’ve given me things too watch out for and for that. I do thank you a lot. Stay Safe, Take Care and God Bless. 👍💕❤️ Happy Cycling 🚵♀️💖🙏
Good gel pad gloves really helps my hands. When I forget my gloves I really regret it.
Cheers mate. I’ll put a few of these ideas into practice. I’ve been trying all sorts of things but no joy.
Great video! I'll have to get my form checked out on my bike.
Great video. Thank you. Another cause for numb hands could be as simple as a wrong fitting jersey or base layer. I had a tight fitting sleeveless undershirt that was pinching something in my armpit that then caused my hands to go numb. The armpit squeeze was bearable, so I kept wearing it (an expensive piece of clothing, so I thought it had to be good) It took me a while to realize that it was however affecting my hands.
Love the hands behind your hips tip !! Next time ... I'm trying that 😉
Great video, thanks Cam.
Very insightful!! Wish I had watched it earlier- locked elbows, numbness.. now slipped disc in my neck pinching my nerve. Riding tt bike..
Thank you for all of the tips. I tilted the bike handle upward and rotated the handlebar forward along with raising my bike seat just a bit more. No more numb hands! I remembered to keep my hands loose instead of the 'death grip'. Basically, I found that I just used my knuckles to rest my hands on the handlebar was perfect. Sitting up instead of leaning forward helped alot too! Thank you for the video!
Great stuff, thanks for sharing on the thread.
I tried using an extension for the stem which raises the handlebars and the higher end stem extenders include a joint that can be used to move the handlebars forward or back a few degrees. So far it's a big help with the hands going numb. Amazon has various versions of stem extenders. Check this out!
I've had arthritis in my hands for 50 years Thanks for the tips
Again, Excellent. Not only does Neil have a depth & breath of Technical knowledge, he communicates so well that it's easy to understand. Now where is my Qantas Cargo schedule.......I have several stops to make in your Country with my bike
Haha! Cheers mate
This guy talks so much sense, love the vid, Great job🤘
These are pure gold! It is almost like these videos have been "magically" released as I'm toying with some of the various issues covered in each successive episode. Keep them coming!
Weird! Had this happen to me for the first time today! Good timing thanks
Hopefully you can resolve it Alex. Cam
No nonsense advice. 👍 cheers mate
Great video. I encountered an additional reason.. when first starting out on a road bike I had no idea about gloves an just picked a pair that looked good to me. The bike shop didn't query what I was after or whether it was suitable and long story short I had selected MTB fingerless gloves. The gel padding on these was in different positions across the middle for flat bar bikes compared to road bike bars & hoods. Consequently by the time I would finish a decent ride the outer sides of my hands and outer two fingers were so numb and weak the did not even have the strength to lift a coffee cup. Only after a while I mentioned this problem and a buddy beside me pointed out that I was using the wrong gloves. Changes gloves, no problems. Only now on rides ~100km do I find some numbness and fatigue in the hands and I would put that down to loading more weight on the front end which is happening more towards the back end of a long & challenging ride. So for newbies with this problem, also check that you have purchased the correct glove type.
Can you please recommend a brand and model?
@@TheRainmanisback MTB gloves (padded) and Road bike gloves (unpadded). Brand is irrelavant. Just get the correct type for your bike. Besides, with modern MTB ergo grips you don't want padding at all.
A true legend. Making a video while holding a cam in one hand and controlling a bicycle down the meanest terrains of Australia. Unbelievable.
explains why recently my fingers have been numb on bike and then off bike ,major change needed by me.
I really needed this. thanks!
Easier said than done. I have a very muscular upper body build unfortunately. I suffer greatly with hand numbness. Had the bike fit also but made no difference.
Almost the perfect reason to visit Oz just to get a good bike fit. 😉 excellent video again. This is starting to become a habit.👍
...and get your carbon frame scanned. Some clever folks down there for sure!!
The best thing for me when I have pain in my hands on a 3+ hour ride is to ride hands free for a few minutes or if that is not a good idea because of the situation just use one or two fingers to lightly touch the handlebars.
drescherjm.for all. if you have numb hands your handlebars are too low causing too much pressure on hands. raise them or lower the saddle.its as simple as that as i did it.now numb free.
I do that too. Sometimes one hand off at a time
Did you watch the video?
Fixed it with some aero bars bolted on to my drops... Extra weight but better comfort.
Neil mentioned it in passing but I'd like to hear more on core strength's impact on this and the ability to reduce pressure on the hands. Most of us don't have "awesome" core strength and in fact have a bit more mass than we would like. How do we differentiate between saddle hight/position and their impact vs lack of overall core strength.
Yep I feel get numbness only when I am tired on the bike on long rides
These videos are really helpful. 5 stars.
The most useful part of this video is the side view image of the riding position with the hands off the handle bars.
He has "amazing core strength". It's rare to hear people talk about themselves like that.
...but he also described himself as "very light in the upper body" which (outside of cycling circles) is not considered a boast :D
Great topic, Cam.
VID's always making better cyclists! thumbs UP!!
Between adjusting balance, double bar cork tape, gel gloves and resting on the lunate bone area of both hands, I've practically done away with pins & needles. However, it took a while to habitually rest on the lunates.
I've never had numb hands yet, but boy did that part on permanent damage scare me 😂. Definitely gonna change up how I hold my bars now! Maybe even experiment a tad with seat position, although I think I have it dialed but you never know unless you change it up!
Interesting video. I have a herniated disc in my neck from playing ice hockey and a herniated disc in my lower back while on the job. The neck usually doesn't give me problems but the lower back always gets tight but loosens up when it warms up. As far as my hand issue, when I bike outside, no problem. I started getting numbness, on my stationary trainer. I change hand positions and no relief.
Can't get enough of the bike fit videos. Fit and comfort is the most primary element to road cycling performance in my mind. It's a shame it also seems to be the most illusive.
elusive
@@michaelporter4050 Damn.
Made even more infuriating by those freaks who can jump straight on an off-the-peg bike with an average set up and be off riding all day with no problems.
Well there are alternatives to what you are riding now , and they are pain free. The caveat is you may have peer pressure / UCI rules to deal with.
Yea, core strength raises its ugly head again. I agree with that point on balance. Not sure what GCN put out on this, but in a long ride or even a race you should simply be able to come off of the bars and go for a gel every 20mins out of the back pocket, relax the shoulders a bit to prevent this happening. Good video once again. I’m glad I did not hear shims mentioned. :)
A wealth of information. Thank you Cam and Neill.
after having so many videos on youtube about Bike fit and numbness, this video still has got a new to say. Good stuff Cam.
Hinault's book mentioned what Neil did briefly in the video, being able to "play the piano" with the bike set up. Hinault's was referring I believe to saddle set back and getting the weight off the hands, and being staying relaxed.
Yes I like the piano analogy Steve, it's a good one. Check the footage at 8:33, I believe I may have busted out a tune!
@@neillstanbury4557 Looks like a snatch of Mozart.. ! Thanks for the very informative and practical information you've shared, they are a great help!
Solved my problem of numb fingers by wrapping additional handlebar tape around the grip areas. The wider grips solved my problem. Be careful that the tape doesn't interfere with braking or shifting. Worked wonders for me.
Thanks for sharing Pete
Even with the correct bike fit numb fingers can occur. In developing my unique handlebar I found it reduced or stopped numb fingers and hands. In fact I contacted Neill to check it out. He has only good things to say about it. Nothing fancy. Just a ergonomic top bar design that improves blood flow, reduces nerve pressure and wind drag.
nice useful information for someone who is going through the same
more I watch more I hear, thank you
Very helpful, thanks!
I couldn't solve this problem with balance, when I was commuting by bike. 44 km per day, year round. And believe me, I tried. It was either the hands, or the pudendal area. What fixed it was time trial bars. And they really helped on windy days too.
Thanks. I'm lowering my seat a little, immediately.
Good vid for those who need help. I am a pretty set racer/rider, so I don't have these issues, but I stopped by to see how you break it down. Great work Cam!
I changed my bars to the ENVE Aero flaired bars, slightly narrower than my shoulders. Flaired bars are much more comfy for my wrists on long 4-5 hour rides.
Thanks for sharing Michael. Cam
Very well explained article.
Ride without hand, elbow lock.. now I know why my hand are always numb once the ride exceeds 40km. Will try to focus on torso now. Thank you sir
Think about what keeps runners, skiers, skaters, baseball players, golfers, volleyball players, football players, and so on, from falling over on their faces. They keep their center of gravity over their feet. Relative to your feet, as your head and torso go down, they also go forward. To keep your feet underneath you, you have to move your hips back.
Well done, thank you.
informative video, thank you.
Suffered for years, modified position, ergo and aero bars, doubles taped, several types if glove/without, plastics, nerve conduction...the lot...gave up trying to find out what was causing the issue...and then it occured to me the neck on my jerseys were pretty tight when in position on the bike...problem solved...compression in the neck caused it...very little problem since.
Must have been a thoracic outlet problem - very curious that a jersey could cause that level of trouble - I'll file that one away in the memory banks
you don't have jersey open most of the time?
Great video! Thank you
He's right it is a balance issue, I find that my hands get a little sore at first but once I put more power down I don't get any pain at all in my hands for the rest of the ride. Core strength seems to be a big factor too, my core is rubbish so I know that's an issue. I think bar width would also be an issue because of the hand placement, a bar that's too wide will cause issues with your hands right up to your traps, my bar is 42cm and by my measurements I should be on a 38cm.
Thanks for sharing Darin, Cam
I myself have switched to a 38cm compact bar coming from a 42cm and that completely transformed the bike, go for it.
For me, even with big saddle to bar drop, I found that I had lots of weight on my hand as well as some minor front knee pain, and raising the saddle 4mm I instantly felt less weight on my hands. Had I not been riding very hard I might not have any knee pain, but would still have too much weight on hands. Saddle height again strikes as I think the most critical bike setup component.
I would have thought raising your saddle would have put more weight on hands/bars.
@@duathlete827you're right, he confused raised with lowered
Physical therapy aid for biking numbness hands wrist fingers: The dreaded wrist numbness / pain.. as my rides got longer I felt that also, who here has not? Sometimes it’s the gear and fit, sometimes it’s our bodies and we need to do PT. I’ve done both with mixed results .. until 4 months ago found “the” solution. I think I've solved it, just before I turn 60 in October 2022. Yep, tried the various ergonomic handlebar pads, changing hand positions as I ride, bike fit tunings, yada-yada, nothing gear wise really seemed to work. I'd feel the dreaded numbness start 30 - 40 minutes in, give or take. Now I’m back to round grips on both 29’er and fattie. Plus, I'm doing 3 - 4 hour rides now without numbness issues :) This is my PT aid, and what I’ve done past 4 months. Take a round stock of wood, I used leftover wood rail, a 2 foot piece no longer than your shoulders needed , drill 3/8”” hole halfway thru. Attach rope say 48” long, I used ripcord, any non fraying rope you have will do. Attach weight to end, I use 4lbs. use it 2x a day , 5-7 up/downs each session, 3x week. Hold your arms out straight 90 degrees to body. Slowly roll the weight up, then down. Trust me, it seems easier than it is. You will strengthen forearm muscles, your wrist muscles, loosen your tendons. Up and down slowly …. Left wrist than right wrist. 2x day, 5-7 reps, 3x a week.
Thank you, this explains alot=)
Core stability is the main issue. I have spinal disc bugle, so on good days I have no pressure on my hands. When my core feels stiff or weak, I compensate it by putting more weight on the handle bar. I have tried the Steve Hogg test years ago, sadly I can't keep that position on most days.
On a mountain bike it is definitely a compromise to get that balance. Higher bar rise can of course shift weight off the hands, and tends to improve stability for descending, but can make it harder to keep the front end down on tech climbs. I've been experiencing hand numbness on my MTB, getting my seat level and further back helped a bit, but I do think I might need taller bar rise, my current bars are 20mm rise which is great for keeping the front end down on climbs, but gives me lower back pain on the descent in addition to the hand numbness as the reach on my bike isn't that long (435mm reach). I demoed a bike with 466mm reach and 30mm bar rise and found that the hand numbness and lower back pain didn't occur (for reference I'm 5'10" 255lbs).
Good points, thanks for sharing mate,. Cam
That's why my smart band is vibrating. Reminding me to move, or move around when in fact I'm cycling. 😁
Probably, You can try to put it on your ankle.
@@paulraffles87 i'm also planning to tie mine to my chest to make it's HR reading accurate and eliminate lag .. lol!!