ISO on Sony cameras is often INCREDIBLY misunderstood
Today we're going to take a hard look at how the ISO setting on your Sony Alpha camera actually works. And we'll deep dive into two topics that can be pretty intimidating when you first try to understand them but that are actually really useful to understand: Dual Base ISO (sometimes called dual native ISO) and ISO invariance.
These two topics are distinct, yet related in the sense that they affect how you'll use your ISO setting on your camera for noise performance, maximizing dynamic range, and for low light shooting, and since there seems to be an influx of people transitioning over to the Sony ecosystem with cameras like the Sony A7 IV, A1, and A7 SIII, I'm seeing a ton of confusion about how ISO seems to work differently than people expect it to. We'll also briefly discuss exposing to the right (ETTR) in the context of dual base ISO and ISO invariance.
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Relevant Links/Stuff Mentioned:
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📼► My video about manual mode: • Understand Your Camera...
📼► The video where I discuss using zebras: • How to nail exposure e...
📼► Videography for photographers video: • A Photographer's Guide...
📚► Photon Transfer: DN to lambda by James Janesick: www.google.com/books/edition/...
📄► Dual Conversion gain whitepaper by Aptina: photonstophotos.net/Aptina/DR...
🌐► Sensor performance testing site (Photons to Photos): photonstophotos.net/
📼► @AlynWallace video (ISO variant vs. invariant comparison): • What's The Best ISO Fo...
🎥► @geraldundone's channel: / @geraldundone
🎥► @philipbloom's Channel: / @philipbloom
🌐► CineD website: cined.com/
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Table of Contents:
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0:00 - A deeper dive into ISO for your Sony Alpha camera
1:05 - More nuanced ISO interest than I thought
2:30 - Getting the most out of this video
4:52 - How your Sony Mirrorless camera works
8:37 - Different types of noise
14:41 - What does "base ISO" mean?
16:44 - Base ISO: Photo vs. Video
18:21 - Dual base ISO
21:06 - How a "typical" CMOS sensor works
24:04 - How dual conversion gain/dual base ISO works
26:52 - Figuring out your camera's second base ISO value
30:29 - ISO invariance explained
36:57 - Practical takeaways and recommendations
40:31 - A note about ETTR
42:36 - Did I miss anything?
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#DualISO #bestISO #ISOinvariance #danfox #foxandlens
Make sure to check out the chapter markers if you need to skip back to a section or if you already know some of this stuff!
Listen man, the information you display here for us to take in, the amount of work it must have taken for you to make it all understandable and relatively concise, the consideration for both the technical and not-so-technical folks - well freakin’ done 👏. Absolutely crushed it man, I can’t commend you more for this! As an engineer turned photographer/videographer, I GREATLY appreciated this video and found it incredibly engaging, seriously helpful, and endlessly interesting.
Oh, wow. I appreciate the kind words, man! This video turned into so much work over a few months that I almost gave up on it, but definitely glad that I released it into the wild and that it seems to be helping folks!
I second Nick's sentiment here. This video is a great resource, you can tell a lot of work and knowledge went into producing it.
Thanks, Daniel!
I wanted to write sthg in appreciation to Dan’s work, but Nick said it so well that I would botch it. Kudos Dan, and thank you for your insights. 👏👏👏
I appreciate it, Mariano!
This should be a required lecture for photography students
They still have photography schools? Which ones are the best known?
This is the best video I have ever seen on You-tube. No filler that doesn't say anything, packed with info, well delivered and the only video of this type that I played at normal speed. Usually, I speed them up. One nit-picky thing: lose the very quiet background music; very annoying.
Glad you liked it! Well, apart from the music 😉
great video! love the in-depth explanations! 👏
Thanks so much!
This video has been sitting in my “watch later” folder for about a month now, it’s not easy to find the time and willingness to learn about something you know is going to be difficult. But it is so worth it! Thank you for making this, I had an epiphany. I don’t understand how your channel is this underappreciated, but it seems like people want to hear more nerdy, science talk in a world full of ‘KZhead filmmaker lifestyle influencers‘. Thanks again, from Hungary.
Glad you found the time and thanks for the comment! I don't think I could make "influencer" content even if I wanted to. It's just not my personality lol. I cringe so hard at that stuff.
Woooo! This is one of the most valuable videos I've ever seen on this topic. The amount of information you share and how you make it accessible is unbelievable! Thank you so much.
Appreciate the kind words, Gabriele. Glad you found it helpful. And thanks for the coffee! 😉 Just noticed that!
Dan, this is one of the best videos I've seen this year. Although it is very big nerdy subject, you have managed to scale it down and simplise it. Well done!
Wow, this video was so detailed yet so easy to understand?? The pacing, the simple explanations, the clarifications, sound effects to keep me engaged. This was one of the few videos where I could watch all the way through and fully pay attention to LOL. Amazing job breaking everything down about ISO and creating an absolute banger video on it!
Thanks! I'm glad it was helpful!
So freaking good. This is absolutely a master class. I can’t imagine how much work you put into this. Seriously so much good information and actually researched to a depth where you aren’t just repeating someone else’s analogy. Honestly, world class video. I have spent quite a bit of time researching this. Like an easy 20-30 hours and I could not find resources with this level information. Really a valuable resource.
Glad you enjoyed it! One of your comments actually gave me the idea for how I could package responses to all the ISO questions under a couple "why does this matter" categories 👍
Quite a bit of time researching this, 20 hours? How about some other's spending years. Dan is summing it all up, it's invaluable.
This is the first video of yours that I've watched and it's incredible. The quality of the video itself is great. It looks fantastic and the diagrams are extremely useful at helping understand what you're talking about. But not only that, the information you're providing and the depth you go into is phenomenal. I rarely leave comments but you deserve the recognition and feedback. You should have way more subscribers. Anyway, you've just gained a new sub!
Thanks, Matt! Glad to hear that you enjoyed it!
I just found your channel and I'm so enjoying every video. You have all the information that I want, plus a load more I didn't even consider. I've learned a lot, and you're definitely up there with some of the best Creators.
I appreciate it, Scott!
Dude, amazing. I've been learning photography and videography the last couple of months and this the most informative thing i've seen on noise and ISO. Clear, understandable and in depth. This will be helpful to me in my art journey. Thank you!
Glad to hear it! You're very welcome!
I chat a bit about IRE in a previous video - the video about exposing using zebras and why zebras are unique on Sony cameras.
I was at first not sure, if I wanna watch a video almost 45 minutes long about ISO, but man, it was so worth my time! Really really well explained, even though I might not have been able to follow all along in all topics, but that's on me, being new to videography. I love learning to know how my gear works in details and you seem to be a top-notch teacher for that. Thank you!
Glad you stuck with it!
Hi Dan, I've just found this ISO explanation you did. I was understanding a good chunk of it up to the last quarter then the Jello set in the brain just ran away. But over all thanks for doing it I'm going to have to watch it a couple of times more before most of the info sinks in. It does for me explain a lot of why the image gets the grain effect. Thanks and have a great new year.
This video was pure gold man, thanks for distilling that into something so consumable. Might have to re-watch it to fully grasp where the noise floor lives, but I can't overstate how great this was!
Glad it helped, Ryan!
Thank you Dan. Many years ago I used to design astro CCD cameras. So I have a pretty good knowledge base for this stuff but I didn't know about the dual "bucket" analogy in modern sensor designs. So thank you very much for increasing my knowledge in this area. I am often asked at my camera club about the best way to avoid noise in images and now I have more info to pass on.
You're welcome. Glad it helped!
Man, how is it possible that this guy has so little subscribers! Dan, your videos are super clear and informative and very well done! Thnaks for sharing your knowledge.
Appreciate it!
Actually one of the best videos explaining the matter, really good video! I literally had to listen to lectures to find some of the stuff that's in this video. 👏🏾
Thanks so much, Darrell! It's been a bit surprising that so many people are finding this video helpful, but I'm glad that it is!
I found this video 10 months after it’s release. Thank you! Thank you! Not only does it help understand the subject, but also as a guide in purchasing cameras, including “Action Cameras”. The knowledge of how any camera deals with ISO and how to logically manipulate within the device limits. Obviously those who operate in HIGH END equipment professionally, understand this, but as a nonprofessional fledgling videographer, I now feel I have a base understanding of this most important subject of ISO. Again, Thank you!
Sure thing! Just keep in mind that many of the nitty gritty details here are specific to Sony Alpha cameras. But if you understand that ISO is not exposure, you're well on the way to using ISO properly!
Wow! I am (was) a software engineer, not a hardware engineer, so I appreciate the simplified discussion of the hardware. But your "flow" chart and what happens in different states was awesome! Such a good teacher. I'll need to go through it a couple of times and break it down into "if this (lighting, composition, etc.), then do this (ISO, etc)" for my 2 cameras. But now I understand why I need to consider what I am trying to accomplish and what I need (low noise vs dynamic range) and then approach the situation appropriately. Very cool.
Thanks so much, Dan (great name, btw 😀). Glad you found it useful!
You Sir are superhuman. Making complicated info this accessible is unreal. Hoping to meet more topics im even less informed on, on your channel. Cheers!
Appreciate it, Mads!
This video is INSANELY GOOD. This was every bit as good as any Gerald or Bloom I've seen, while being very helpful and entertaining. Subscribed. This was really good man. Seriously.
Thanks a bunch, Matt 🤘 Glad you found it valuable!
I was watching health related videos for the past two weeks on youtube and randomly this video showed up in my feed. After a few minutes I had to pause and press like and sub before I forget. Beyond that, there was no chance for me to stop watching. Didn't know this video was over 40 minutes long, but I learned so much. The density of information, the illustrations and the simplifications/analogies were just perfect. Really, great work! You deserve way more subscribers and I hope the KZhead algorithm helps in your favor!
Health related videos?! That's a strange crossover 😆 but I'm glad you enjoyed the video nonetheless! Appreciate the feedback!
Man you deserve a standing ovation for this video . This is the most accurate and best delivery on iso. Seriously impressive. 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
Appreciate it! 👊
Agreed!
The first time I feel like I understood something about ISO. The only and first video, that comes with enough details so that I can understand what ISO means for my fotography. Thanks!
Glad you found it helpful!
thank you for the effort that you put into this!! by far one of the most insightful tutorials ive seen regardless of the topic, kudos. Keep up the great explanations
Appreciate it. Glad it helped!
Wow. Dan, what an awesome, in-depth video! This video was pushed by KZhead, you need more subscribers with this detailed, clear language that you put the information out here.
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you for this video! You made something so complicated so easy to understand and cleared up so many misconceptions I had!
Sure thing, Mario! Glad it helped!
Wow, this was great to watch! I am an electrical engineer and hobby photographer and this video really boost my motivation on taking pictures! Now i can feel all this capacity filling up when taking a picture! Thanks! :)
Nice! Probably easier for you to understand how the voltage potential can be higher once the circuit switches, then 👍
This is amazingly high quality content. It's super deep on information yet presented in an incredibly accessible way.
Instant subscribe. This is one of the best videos I've seen at least during this last year! Kudos, kudos, kudos!!! You managed to out-Undone, Gerald Undone!!!!
Ha! I appreciate the sentiment, but I'm not sure out-Undone-ing Undone is even possible, not that I care to try 🤣 Dude is a machine of the deliciously nerdy!
Great video! I’ve watched it a couple of times over several months to let it “settle” before watching again. So much great info and kudos for your effort! As a fellow PNW astro shooter, I hope to run in to you one day to thank you personally… Cheers!
Glad it helped. Hope to see you out there!
Holy 's**t', this is the BEST explanation of ISO invariance and how a camera sensor works that I've ever come across. I've been shooting Sony since they were K-M and now with an a1. But for the first time, actually understand how this all works. I just passed the link to my Sony camera group - and subscribed! THANK YOU! Really well done!!!!
Appreciate it! Glad you found it helpful!
That was the most worthwhile 45 min covering the technical aspects of digital photography I've ever watched. Even with an EE background, I learned a lot that can help me consider how I use my gear. Many thanks for this! 🙏
Glad to hear it!
Wow. Incredible. I’ve got a long way to go to really understand most of it, but I felt like I was following along quite well, and that there are real practical applications. A genuine cheers to you for the work you put in, and being willing to share that knowledge. Subscribed!
Thanks, Sean. Glad you liked it!
9 months later KZhead algorithm did his magic again and showed me this absolutely amazing gem of a nerdy video. Thank you Dan. Best 40 minutes I have spent in a while.
Thanks so much! Glad you found it helpful!
Great video Dan. Completely agree with the fact that you have made a lot of effort in making it. Very informative indeed. Keep up the good work.
Appreciate it!
Dan - I just found your channel and more importantly this video; One of the ABSOLUTE BEST vids I have ever seen on this topic; An absolute masterpiece of information! Thanks so much!
I appreciate it, John. Means a lot!
It’s been a while since I’ve come across something challenging to understand and follow. But excited for the Journey. Thanks for the video! I’m sure I’ll be rewatching multiple times
Glad you enjoyed it - maybe even multiple times! 😉
I just watched a 43 minute video on ISO. That's how good this was. A lot of great info clearly laid out for people of all kinds of technical aptitude to understand. Well done 👏
Thanks, Michael! Glad you enjoyed! The ironic thing is that I expected this video to be my least popular so far lol - I (apparently erroneously) assumed that no one would have the patience for it.
I don't care if you have a degree or not, you are a teacher. Better than any I've ever had in just a 40 min video. Amazing work!
Glad you enjoyed! I appreciate it!
I’ve been learning a lot about photography and how my camera works lately and wow I have to say this video is very interesting and helpful so far. I just had to pause because how come you don’t have thousands of subscribers yet?! Please keep creating.
Thanks for the comment. Glad it helped!
Thanks for your time. You did an amazing job on putting all this info together in one video. Highly appreciated.
You're welcome!
Man, I'm a bit of a nerd and I've watched A LOT of camera related videos but this? This was awe-inspiring. Absolutely outstanding. Thank you!
Glad you liked it!
Dude, this was a super helpfull video, and very clearly explained in terms if understanding the concepts and how that affects practical usage, well done :) Also, since I now understand *why* I need a more expensive/better camera, and not only *have a feeling* that I need a better camera to get the results I want, you are the reason why there will be no family vacation this year and I have to eat instant noodles for a year to get said better camera …
Hey, now! You can't blame me if you develop gear acquisition syndrome! 😉🤣 In all seriousness though, I'm glad you found it helpful!
Excellent. Watched several times, learn something more each time. I am not a nerd so takes me a bit longer to get there, but get there I did. This video should really be seen by a lot more people to dispel the amount of disinformation about ISO out there. Thank you. Got another sub.
I Appreciate it! And I think part of the value of this medium is that people can go back and watch it as much as they feel they need to!
I just stumbled into your channel and maaaan! This video is amazing. The way you explained everything was so digestible. I remember reading all the technical stuff just for fun a few years ago and took me a while to understand, but you? You explained so well. As a DoP the technical stuff is as important as the creative one. Congrats! You’ve gained a new subscriber ✌🏼
Thanks, Bryan. Glad you enjoyed!
This is absurdly informative. Holy crap, thank you SO much for making this! This is amazing!
You're welcome. Glad you enjoyed it!
Geeking out over ISO 😃😃. Great information, brilliantly explained. Thank you 👍
Sure thing! Glad it helped!
Brilliant - clear explanations of what could be a very complex subject. I've learned so much from this. Bravo!
This is such a comprehensive explanation of ISO that I don't think I'd ever need another video. Thank you for the thorough explanation and effort to keep everything in a logical order, and to explain details as they come up. Well done!
Sure thing! Glad it helped!
I will echo everyone else's sentiments on how excellent this video is and I am smarter for watching it. It was a bit of a hard slog through the technical detail of the first half but it's worth it, because the concepts that are learned are immediately put to use in the second half. If there's one minor improvement to suggest, it would be to display final edits of the night yard scene with both the base ISO (with exposure gain in post) vs the ISO most people would choose (i.e. Auto ISO). This would demonstrate the dynamic range gain in the base ISO edit. You kind of did that with the cut-up sections but I think the takeaway people will get is to see a full image before/after when it comes to using base ISO.
Yeah, this was definitely a more dense, "hard slog" kind of video - I ultimately decided I had to err toward better detail over ease of consumption and hope that it found people who were patient enough to stick with me 😉 Glad it helped!
This is one I will need to watch more then a few times. Thanking for reducing this abstract subject to the lowest common denominator (That would be me)
Hope it helps!
This video was incredible in it's content. I have been deep diving lately for more informative videos to educate myself on the SonyA7iii. The take away of second base iso is invaluable, appreciate all the hard work and effort in making this video.
I appreciate the comment!
Wow! Absolutely phenomenal video, explaining the concepts in a very understandable and engaging way, and not going off into the weeds. LOVE IT! I really appreciate the effort you've put into this. Thank. you!
Sure thing!
Getting into astrophotography really made me understand ISO. Iso doesn’t cause noise, we just usually use iso to bump up lack of signal
The more technical types of photography, like astro, definitely force you to understand why things happen as they do!
Wow that's really an in depth explanation and I'm glad I bumped into this video 😳 Question, you said to find the second base ISO in video mode, we had to multiply by the same ratio as the ISO itself get multiplied when switching to video PP (so 100 to 800 is a 8 times multiplier for S-Log3 for instance). I have a Sony A7III, but since this camera is only 8 bits, I got use to film HLG3 witch had a base iso of 125. If the second base ISO for this camera is at 640 in photography, this would make 800 as a second base ISO. (640x1.25) But it's funny, I always felt the switch more around 5000... Any idea ? Maybe you could give me a more precise value ? Thank you 🙏
Glad you enjoyed the video - thanks for the comment! I actually like how you've articulated my advice about finding the second base ISO - a little more succinct! As far as the a7 III - I no longer own the a7 III so you're stretching my memory here 😉 but from what I recall, your calculation is correct. I vaguely remember the second base ISO kicking in at 800 with HLG3. The a7 IV is similar in this regard and is why I still really prefer my a7S III in low light. It's just a less useful second gain stage on the regular alpha cameras because it kicks in so low. On a side note, when I had the a7 III, I used to rely primarily on HLG3, too, but found over time that I just didn't enjoy the challenges of working with it when editing so gradually started using Cine2 more and more. You may want to try it out, particularly for lower light. Just easier to work with in 8 bit but still providing enough room to manipulate colors and contrast in post.
@@DanFox I take it as a compliment, especially that I am not native english speaker 😅 And thank you so much for the advice 😁🙏✨ I'll definitely try this out 😋
Outstanding bit of research and presentation. Made a great job of demystifying a complex subject. HUGE THANKS.
What a fantastic video - thank you for actually going into technical detail! Subscribed
Glad you found it helpful!
I've never been very good at choosing the right ISO settings. I typically shoot almost fully in manual, but have ISO on set on automatic. If I am shooting astrophotography, I shoot in full manual mode (ISO, Shutter Speed, Aprature).
I typically choose ISO last.
Made it through and my brain in jello now too. But thankyou! I learned SO MUCH. You're a legend. Can't wait to dive right into some more of your content. I appreciate all the time and effort you put in so greatly!
Glad you enjoyed!
Thank you so much for all your effort put into the video! I have been an amateur photographer for 7 years now, I have never understood ISO so well and in such detail. Great work, also well explained. Rock on 🖖
Glad it helped!
What a great exploration and structure. Very well done and wish you continued motivation in crafting these excellent educational resources.
Appreciate it, George!
Superb. I sort of knew the technical stuff (having read the patent, especially Figures 2B and 3), but for me the real value in this video is translating what this means into how you use this to best effect when taking photos. You manage to cover a huge range of issues with real clarity. My job now is to translate it all (into French) for my photo club, most of whom are ETTR , believe that ETTR demands ISO 100 and that ETTR revolves around those top 8192 values. But you have shown me the best way of doing that, so many many thanks.
I'm at 4:52 and I've already hit like and sub. Just picked up the A7RV and coming from a Canon 5DMKIV I realise I have a lot to learn. And I'm so excited to find a channel that gets down and nerdy. Thanks for the content in advance brotherman. I appreciate the time and effort and sharing the knowledge.
love this video! good to follow, great presentation and practically oriented.
Wow! You have uncovered and illuminated the unseen world we knew so little about. Thank you! This video should be a part of the tutorials in photography classes.
Glad it helped!
That was an incredibly well thought out explanation of a very complicated subject. It is the mark of a true expert that they can explain things in understandable terms. Thank you, and kudos for sharing your knowledge.
I appreciate the comment and am glad the video was helpful!
Amazing video. Will certainly need to watch it a few times again to understand everything haha, but very clear and interesting video on that subject !
This was so detailed it answers questions that kept popping up as I listened, amazing and detailed job while breaking it down into layman's terms
Glad it helped! And i hear ya... trying to anticipate all the questions that people would have was part of the challenge of making this video! 🤣
Dude, your level of understanding to convey this stuff so that a passionate hobbyist like me can understand it is next level. You seem like an engineer or something, like maybe you designed some of these cameras or something. Thanks for this type of content, I really appreciate it. Info dumps can be a big dopamine hit, especially when you're setting off all these light bulbs in my head and making me grasp how things are working. Big respect!
I'm not a camera engineer, but I was a computer and electronics engineer in a previous career. Can definitely change the way you form thoughts, for sure. I'm glad the content helped! That's part of the whole reason I even make videos 👍
Excellent presentation. I think the best I've seen in photography. I have subscribed and look forward to more from you.
this video is a total degree about cameras sensors and iso, great work man, it was really usefull
Glad it helped!
This was freaking amazing! Wow! Thanks a lot for all your work you put into this! There is so much knowledge packed in this short video! You‘re amazing!
I appreciate it, Boris!
Thanks Dan for such an in depth video. I learn't a lot about how digital cameras work, have a much better understanding of dual base ISO and ISO invariance. Brilliant Job sir!
Glad it helped!
What an amazing and precise explanation, i greatly value all your effort to be acurate, its a instant follow for me thank you so much !
You're welcome! Thanks for the comment!
Dan, if I was Bill or Ted I would say this was a most excellent video. Truly great work and very well explained. I really like your tempo and presentation style. I will make sure to watch some of your other videos and who knows, I might even subscribe!
this is super cool, finally a video that isn't just the most superficial coverage thanks so much!
Sure thing!
This video blew my mind. Thanks for simplifying and sharing
Sure thing!
a fantastic explanation, big props to you man!
Thank you man, you really helped a lot of people !
ditto to EBLovesMusic's comments - a master class explained in layman's terms that I can follow with the examples to back it up. Well done, Dan. Thank you.
Glad it helped!
Wow 10 months on the YT algo serves up your vid for me. Thanks for updating my understanding of ISO from the the film age to digital. My 73 year old brain has its own version of noise called FOG but that was blown away by your clear explanation and knowledge. Many thanks
Thanks so much for the comment, Dennis! 73?? I'm sure you've got piles of knowledge stockpiled that puts me to shame!
This is an incredible video for the amount of knowledge in it. This needs more viewers asap.
Appreciate it, Beau!
Damn!! Amazing video and I love how long and well edited it is!
Glad you enjoyed it!
This has been the most useful photography video i‘ve seen. I now understand why i sometimes get horrible photos even with great gear and low ISO. Thank you!
Glad it helped, Shawn!
Great Video Dan! Keep up the good work man!
Appreciate it, man!
man ive just found you, you've got excellent audio balance, comfy voice, good pacing, good graphics, useful information. damn dude nice
Appreciate it! I've never been told I have a comfy voice before. That's a new one!
I have Blackmagic Cameras but this basically math tech part is so useful and helped me to understand a lot. Keep doing it, you really help filmmakers and photographers. Thank you!
Appreciate it! Glad you still found some of it useful even though the BMPCC behave differently!
Brilliant! You must have worked long and hard on this video to present such a technically complex range of subjects in a way even I could understand. Thank You!
Sure thing! Happy to hear you enjoyed it!
This makes so much sense now. Earned my subbed today. Great stuff!!
Glad to hear it!
This is the best explanation of this topic I've heard so far
Absolutely phenomenal, thank you for making this video... You are a very good teacher.
I appreciate the work you put into this video! Didn't know that most noise is caused by infrequent photons but now I know. Real lightbulb moment for me there haha. Thanks man!
Glad it was helpful!
Enjoyed watching the video, thanks for the very clear explanation.
Glad it helped!
This was great dude. Very much appreciate learning this!
Thanks! Glad it helped!
I dig this kind of technical talk about anything. But as a newcomer to videography, this was very enlightening. Great stuff!
Glad it helped!
Great video Dan, well explained and presented 👍
Appreciate it!
Fantastic video! Everyone with a dual gain camera should see this. Your content is excellent, better than many high profile creators are putting out.
Thanks so much! Glad it helped!