Social mobility is impossible in the UK. Don't waste your energy.
2024 ж. 24 Мам.
82 674 Рет қаралды
My personal experience about social mobility in the UK, and how I don't believe it is possible to move up a social class in one's lifetime.
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I don't understand how it is possible... I am Italian and also here social mobility became quite a dream... but. If you gain enough money, when you are young, maybe saving them and working hard, you can afford a good school an then you have the opportunity to change your accent and to have a better job. Is it possible also there? Maybe you can afford the Cambridge University, I guess. But are there something in the middle? 🤔Despite many problems Megan Markle reached that position as a afroamerican! 🤷🏻♀️ How could she do it if not gaining a lot of money and then starting haunting high society? I think your channel is stunning special! 😊🙏🏻
You eyes are so beautiful. I'm not stalking you, I'm in Canada.
The truth is there is very little room at the top. Just 7% of children are privately educated, but they get ⅔ of the top jobs. If you're working class and you want to be successful, you need to use, for example, your feet (like Marcus Rashford), your fists (like Tyson Fury), or your vocal chords (like Johnny Rotten). I can think of other routes a working-class person can take to be successful, but there aren't that many. Ms. Joddle is indeed correct: it is extremely difficult for a working-class person to be successful by trying to do it using a career structure.
I agree with you in a way, but there are only 2 types of classes in the uk, there's working class for all those who need to work to survive and there are those who don't have to work to survive. They are up an upper class, They have all the free time to do as they wish, everyone else has to work to survive.
Not everyone can find a Prince...@@Sara-lk2yr
The UK seems very stuck in the past. Classism is very rampant in the UK despite many Brits denying it, coming from Australia it was a big shock.
Absolutely! And its so subtle
Social mobility doesn't exist in the UK? Come of it. Prince William's wife ' Kate' is one generation away from a council estate. This future Queen of England uncle is festooned with tattoos owns a fish & chip shop and has a criminal record of assault.
This is one reason why David Cameron became prime minister. He seemed charming, confident, capable and reldvant precisely because he was a Tory toff. To oldfashioned England, he seemed a natural leader. But he aas a total light weight.
She comes across as 'working class' because she speaks with a meek nasal whine which automatically makes you think she is from a very humble background. Her Christian name 'Jade' is also considered chavvy & low class.
Absolute rubbish, people with talent and ability can go pretty much anywhere apart from in to nobility, and in reality nobility doesn't really mean much in the UK anymore. The nobility are clinging to the upper middle. This is just a poor me diatribe. You have people from a multitude of backgrounds within all areas of British life.
I have a friend here in the United States, who moved here over 25 years ago. We’re both 50. I asked him why he immigrated. He said with his accent, he could never have been a success in England. He works in tech and makes over $250K per year and is a millionaire at this point.
That's an American mindset that money = class. Not the same in the UK. You can be rich and still considered low class.
@@shaunmckenzie5509that’s true
@@shaunmckenzie5509 Yes and be dirt poor but considered classy if you born of the aristocracy. The high gentry in England are not all full of money. Many a stately home needs repair.
Both mindsets are simply stupid, but the point in above comment related to social mobility, where the U.S. certainly wins. Living in feudalism is worthless.
that's not true
UK is returning to its roots as a stratified, class-by-birth society of peasantry, nobility and royalty.
Oh please, class mobility does exist how else can you explain why our future king is married to a woman whose Grandmother and Mother grew up on a rough council estate?
There's a reason why it's happening. The super-rich were starting to feel relatively less wealthy due to the lower classes being able to afford things that were previously unattainable luxuries. By recalibrating the spending power of the poor in a downward direction, the rich get to experience greater RELATIVE wealth, without having to accrue greater ACTUAL wealth. This recalibration is the unspoken true meaning of "The Great Reset".
@@waynegoldpig2220Very well explained
Mobility by marriage doesn’t count
@@aevans-jl9ymCamill's ancestry including the Earl of Albermarte and Alice Kepple. Hardly a rags to riches story
You are 100% correct. My father was born British and fought for the Crown during WW2. He has a drawer full of medals from the UK for his bravery under fire. But after the war, in the 1950's, he noticed the good jobs always went to "special" people who came from a certain social class. Then he would be hired to do the work of these special people because many of them hardly showed up for work even though they received a pay check. When my Dad asked why he had to do the work of these "no show" employees, they always evaded the question and just said, "That's the way it is." So one day, he boarded the steamship SS United States on Thanksgiving Day 1960 and set off for New York. And he has never looked back. He is proud of his military service in the British Army, but he never went back to England even to visit relatives. He wanted no part of a system that rewards the lazy only because they are from the protected social classes and assigns their work to people who will forever be known as the working class because that's the only value they have for the elite.
Maybe I was lucky, but social class has never bothered me. I was brought up in a 2 bed council flat in the 70’s. I lost my mum when I was 7 to cancer, had no advantages in my life whatsoever, apart from free school dinners which made me strong as there was no food at home. I went to the roughest comprehensive in Liverpool. I was beaten up every week until I took myself to a boxing club. What I learned quickly was to be persistent. I never ever gave up. 50 years later I am at the top of career and retiring this year selling my shares in a multi million dollar£ business. I have never thought about social class. I have always been lower working class and still am but I have achieved far more than those more privileged. My advice; you are as good as anyone. We come in and leave the world with nothing. Learn to be tough, but be kind and have integrity. Never stop learning and being curious and get used to pain and knock back. You only have to get lucky once. Fail quickly and learn.
Good advice for anyone really. At any age.
The only way in which luck has anything to do with it is that you cannot control the factors that make up your mindset. But look at you. The circumstances that gave you drive would not generally be considered "lucky". This woman is not smart, and this whole video is factless. It's an opinion-piece with nothing to back it up.
Absolutely spot on !👍🏻
So who raised you after you lost your mother? I feel there Is a lot more to your story, what job did you do etc etc? Thanks
Well done for unravelling this silly persons 'poor me' diatribe. Class in the UK in 2023 barely exists. There is a slim veneer of class but talent, ability and determination can easily break through it. Also, class exists on some level in almost every country. In the US people socialise in groups they perceive to be adjacent to them based on wealth and values etc.
The UK is an advanced country with a medieval mindset. If you look deep enough into each country you will find there is no perfect country. Sometimes going deep down the rabbit hole is actually worse and you only end up disappointed 😢
Come to the US and .... be even more disappointed. Also, you know, much lower life expectancy and all that ....
Describe this medieval mindset
@@MRW515in the UK the medieval class system still de facto exists. Look at the who-is-who of the political and economical top. All went to the same few schools and unis. Where you were born and who you know matters more in the UK than in most places in the western world.
There would be jf they all stopped following the unelected wef ideology
@@MRW515monarchy.
Opinion of an immigrant who moved to the UK nearly seven years ago... You can have all the professional opportunities in front of you, if you are a good person with morals you'll be put on hold and held back. Someone will pull your rug. Higher positions are for the selfish and immoral. Narcissistic people if we want to give a proper name. My goal shifted from developing a career here to having my own business or at least work away from people. Unless my performance is precisely measured with numbers by the company I work for, I end up being scammed and used by others.
Spot on "High achievers" on whole are people you wouldn't have round for dinner or trust as far as you could throw them. Been round a few and I always feel the overwhelming need to take a shower after being in their company for too long.
You are totally right but you still get better opportunities in UK, that is why you are still here. I am another immigrant.
They will also take your successful achievements and claim them as their own. @@Luton-Mick
Exactly this!
@@ileanamuntean7338And? It's good to spread the truth.
You are in a class all of your own, Jade. You live life with a passion for depth, meaning, and substance. You not only seek them out, but you are also a source of those things for others. To truly live is the rarest thing in the world ~ most people only exist
❤
Don't play the game. The real issue is wealth inequality. Here the question, is where is the money, the 20% of income that the workers have paid the welfare state? It's all gone. That leaves no assets, no wealth, just a massive debt and debt is negative wealth. Wealth inequality is directly caused by the welfare state, and that cannot be reversed without massive pain to others
@@adenwellsmith6908how do you explain the massive amount of wealth in the hands of less than 10% of the population? Of course the welfare system has to work otherwise there are dangerous consequences…is not the poor who are causing the inequality is the super rich…
@kstein I agree with your comment . Jade sounds like a person with both intelligence and integrity . I think the last sentence of your comment is a quotation from Oscar Wilde. And I believe its true . I read it in a book of his quotations and it made a big impression on me, like all the other quotes.
I'm a dual US/UK citizen, though I grew up in the US, and consider myself "American". In my experience, the people most hung up/hypocritical re Class in the UK are invariably the upper middle class - and they're also the group of people most likely to deny that the British class system still exists. I have a very standard US accent (not specifically regional, like say from the south, or NYC), so it's hard to pigeonhole me from the way I speak - interestingly, and since my accent is not British, this can make many of the upper middle class UK types squirm, because they cannot easily "put me in my place" quickly via speech (although, they can/do still look down on me as an "American"). When they find out I have UK family, they'll of course want to know "where from" (to gauge class) - when I tell them, there's alway that smug look of relief on their faces (FYI South London Suburb). Yes, they ARE better than me, after all.
Yes all so true.. Know exactly what you mean bro.
Euros generally look down on Americans for stupid reasons. Now they will be begging the US to stay in NATO to help them fight the Russians if Trump wins.
Class is an insult to the intelligence when these two points are considered: We are all here but for the blink of an eye and the destination where we are all headed has no room for money and status.
I'd say you make a very good point there. Many are constantly worried about being seen as lower-middle, and of course lamenting about not being upper. This makes many hyper vigilant to what they would describe as 'vulgar'.
@@LiamOFarrell Yes. Regarding the distinction via US/UK class - in the UK the "middle class" is much more nuanced (and, as a result, more consequential re social mobility, or lack of). UK middle class is really 3 distinct classes - lower middle/middle/upper middle. Much of the differences in those 3 comes down to "breeding" (family history), education, and culture (accent, where you live & shop, go on holiday, etc). In the US "middle class" doesn't really have as much nuance in terms of those 3 hierarchies - most middle class US citizens don't care about an accent, have access to the same (or similar) education, and there's less cultural difference between the spectrum from lower to upper - it's mostly about money. Example: In the UK, you can have an extremely successful person monetarily/culturally/educationally who comes from the lower middle class, who will still be considered "lower" by a less successful person who's part of the upper middle class. This wouldn't ever be the case in the US. As a "halfling" US/UK citizen (with experience as "native" in both places), this has always been very apparent to me, in a way that many British and "Americans" tend to overlook.
Back in 2010 I did a placement on my economics degree. To get the job I had to do a numerical test and a 2-stage interview process as well as send a cv and cover letter. About a month into the role, the niece of the owner of the company came to work on the same team as me. He had created a role for her and she was given her own research projects to work on while myself and another student were given crap admin jobs. Learnt the hard way how unfair life can be. Thanks for sharing your experience.
Life can get extremely unfair can't it?
I have seen similar things. One of the owner’s sons expected me to sit his big 4 online application maths test when he was an intern. The cheek! Of course I refused. My boss at the time (grandson of Russian aristocracy, Westminster school etc.) just shrugged. I expect he has gone far (and his father was worth £150m then likely a lot more now so he’ll be fine anyway). I think he works there full time now, as head of one of the business lines. Welcome to the real world …
One of my best friends moved to Canada from the UK with his family when he was 11. Now he owns and runs a farm on very pricey Saltspring Island on the West Coast of British Colombia. My parents were both born into the working class, made it into the middle class and now I'm fortunate enough to own a 100-acre farm outside of Thunder Bay, Ontario. As much as I love the UK's history and land, neither of us would likely have been able to achieve anything comparable had we been living in the UK. Not only are there the class politics that you reference (which exist to a lesser degree in Canada but aren't anywhere as strongly defined or exclusionary), but there is so much less land relative to the population. Although the price of real estate in the big cities of Canada has gotten out of hand, there are still rural areas that are quite inexpensive.
Honestly, having a patch of land is the dream of so many of us Brits but it's so expensive here and has gone up massively in the last few years. My little pot garden will have to do!
Very brave comment. I've got English friends who basically tell the same story. I think Uk has been mistreated government wise for far too many years. Tax reductions, which have led to lover public welfare. From my point of view, equal opportunities for education are essential. I'm Danish. In my country, you're supported financially from the state during your studies at eg universities. This means that everyone who has the skills is able to get the best education despite ones social background. In other words, you get paid for educating yourself. As far as I know, it's the same in the other Scandinavian countries. This system inpires to social mobility.
taxation is theft!
"Uk has been mistreated government wise for far too many years" correct. (tory/conservative governments to put a name to the crimes) all but a couple of policies* since 1979 have been economically illiterate neo-liberal nonsense which benefited the wealthy at the expense of literally everyone else * both introduced under "Labour" who had, by then, 97-2010 also adopted the neo-liberal/"shareholders only" fantasy view of economics
I'm in the USA, I can clearly see there is a caste system in the UK. If you do not have an upper-class speech accent, or have met the right people and did the right activites (polo, sking in the alps, attended the right schools, etc..) you are kept out. You can get to go to law school--but the legal system there only allows (400?) to become barristers each year (lawyers) and those positions are given to sons or daughters of those who already hold that position. It happens in the USA too, but is a little more subtle--because if you become well-known in your field, you can "break in." But there is one here in the USA too.
No, regarding the legal profession this simply isn't true. Polo???! ffs. Around 7,000 solicitors (90%+ of lawyers in England and Wales are solicitors) qualify each year, and the vast majority didn't go to private (i.e. the 'right') schools. 19% of all lawyers regulated by the SRA (the regulatory body for solicitors, legal execs and employed barristers) went to private school, so at least 81% didn't go to the 'right' school. Around a fifth of solicitors came from the lowest socioeconomic background, i.e. about equivalent to the percentage of the population that come from that 'class'. It is true that the barristers' profession is more public school biased, but something like 50% didn't go to private schools, and the criteria for getting into the profession is simply academic excellence and the ability to be articulate and be quick on your feet - jobs are not just 'given' to sons and daughters of existing barristers. This isn't to say that there isn't a disproportionate number of middle class and upper middle class people in the legal profession, or to deny that it might be harder for you if you come from a working class background (and this is obviously bad), but it it absolutely possible for people from working class or lower middle class backgrounds to enter the profession and succeed, as both solicitors and barristers, and they do so all the time. All the partners and other gate keepers ultimately care about is whether you will make money.
Anybody can become a 💩 lawyer in the US.
Generally private schooled people who go to Eton, Cambridge, Oxford end up being our MPs or in senior positions at large companies. This is a massive issue here as they never understand live outside their own bubble. t's similar in the US, at your top software companies you will have Harvard, MIT and Harvey Mudd alumni there who have paid hundreds of thousands in fees most of the time for those that didn't win a scholarship and only families that are high in the social class can fund that and the economic inequality actually being worse in the USA. The top 1% now own more wealth than the bottom 92%, and the 50 wealthiest Americans own more wealth than the bottom half of American society - 165 million people. The barriester/solicitor is thing is false though, thousands graduate each year. Polo itself is very expensive, like driving Formula 1 or being a very young amateur in the sport and can only be played by those who can afford it. There is other sports such as Lacrosse and other sports might be more traditionally played by people who are of higher class yes but generally just comes with their upbringing around it but there's not really a limitation of getting into them as most universities here have clubs for it.
A few things matter 1) your accent and command of vocabulary 2) going to a top private school 3) going to a top university 4) social networking. If you want to be a top Lawyer - read Law at Oxford. A top politician - read Politics, Philosophy and Economics at Oxford or LSE. etc. The system is self-perpetuating and is designed that way.
Agreed. It is also interesting to bear in mind that students who go to Oxbridge via the private schools route do not achieve better degrees than their state-educated peers. University is a level playing field in that respect (obviously youngsters from a wealthy family do not graduate with student debt) rather, it is the fact that they can put a private education on their CV which guarantees them an advantage in their choice of a career. (Boris Johnson was the 20th Old Etonian to enter 10 Downing Street).
@@skrich9690 It is a mistake to think that degrees/universities are of equal value - if you want a top job it has to be Oxford, Cambridge, LSE, Imperial College, Kings College London, St Andrews, Durham i.e. where 'posh' kids are educated and 'head-hunted' by top firms!
It is about 1) background and 2 ) a top University. Coming from both Eton and Oxford you go to the head of the queue in most cases. All degrees are not equal and it is not about the quality of teaching etc. It is about accent/social status/being part of the club/networking of elite families/wealth etc. and not necessarily about capability/intelligence!
Yes and even if you do follow the above and the right procedures there is no guarantee you will be accepted into the social network. Bullying of lowering classes is rife in many of these Russell Group universities. Especially Exeter, Durham, Newcastle, York, Sheffield etc all had reports indicating that many working class students were basically ostracised by their coursemates. A few years back students at Durham were reprimanded for having a competition to see who could sleep with "the poorest student". Even if your accent doesn't give you away other things potentially will. You need to hide your entire identity.
@@edwinmoreton2136 agreed but that wasn't the point I was making as such. I was making the same point as you inasmuch as privately educated people who leave Oxbridge with a degree will not be superior in attainment to their peers from a working class background who may achieve a better degree and be cleverer but will not get the top jobs because they don't have Eton or Harrow etc on their cv. I'm agreeing with you that the top jobs are handed out within an exclusive club.
Interesting thoughts. In Norway, my home country, almost everyone was a fishermen and a farmers just a few generations ago. We have not had nobility or rich landowners, the farmers and fishermen have largely been independent. We have also had a class battles after the industrialisation, but out of that we have got good possibilities of social climbing. Keep it up with intersting videos. 😊👍🏻
Well, Norway is, probably, the luckiest (and richest) country in Europe now...
How is Norway different from Sweden , Finland , and Denmark ? With regard to Nobility , Aristocracy , rich elite land owners , class , social mobility , other socioeconomic areas ? How is the politics of each Country different ?
@@christophermaulden733 less africans, more oil
people in norway are not as sophisticated as in britain. It feels like they were fishermen. Makes me depressed. Science is also done by visitors.
I have noticed a lot of good programmers are descendants of farmers. I think farming requires a lot of unstructured problem solving skills.
This is very true. I will give a practical example of my experience. My parents were middle-class academics, and I have always considered myself middle-class. When I was studying law, I initially wanted to be a barrister. I enjoyed studying the BVC and got as far as being called to the bar. By doing lots of mini-pupillages at chambers in different areas of law, it became apparent to me that in my chosen areas (commercial and employment law), the bar was occupied by a class which was way above me and virtually impenetrable and, crucially, something I didn't particularly want to be part of. Nepotism was rife regarding family members being given pupillages when they had far lower grades and less interest in being a barrister than other students. So, I thought, "sod that," and became a solicitor, which is a much more inclusive profession and which I love. Don't get me wrong, you can come from working or middle-class stock and become a barrister, but it will be a massive uphill struggle, and you are most likely to end up in an area of law which doesn't pay much, which is why the upper classes won't touch it.
Do you think that the connections, that come from one's social position, play a part? I.e. those from higher social classes can gain new clients for the company.
@@le13579 That is almost certainly an aspect of it.
Sounds like the 'upper classes' are not as stupid as they are sometimes portrayed...
I got called to the bar once, but it was only to pay the drinks bill...hic!
@@worldofameiso5491 😬😄
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
Cool.
I live by this. It saved my life
One day at a time ? Keep it simple / and keep it in the moment 🙏👍🙏
My ancestors were crofters in Scotland and in the 1850’s they were thrown off the land and put on a prison ship and sent to Australia. Now that is social mobility and I am ever grateful. How you all tolerate the UK I can never understand.
That’s insane . I’m Welsh . Sounds like your ancestors lucked out.
Funny how they thought it was a punishment and now those people are living better now.
@@ElectrostatiCrow Well it was a punishment back then. Living in Australia was rough. They had to build new country from scratch. Ironically, achieving it was only possible by robbing someone else of their ancestral land after being robbed of theirs first.
@@rasklaat2 yes the Brits did a lot of that robbing stuff.
@@rasklaat2 arguably the Welsh and Scottish have also been robbed of their ancestral land so the Scottish ancestors in the above comment then being kicked off and sent to another continent might’ve had it worse to be fair
This is true. When I was at school all my friends were working class or lower middle class. I was just about in lower middle class but poor within that class. I was quite academically bright and i really believed I could have social mobility. I'm now in my 40s and I'm still lower middle class. It turns out being in top sets in a school of lower class pupils just meant that I'm very unremarkable in competition against other lower middle class people. I have explained this to my daughters because i don't want them to be deluded like i was.
Who belongs to the middle oder lowermiddle class?Is there any Definition?
@@killerbean2030 I don't know if there's a definition but it would include things like owning your home with a mortgage. Valuing education but not being rich enough to have your children in private school. Having a job that requires some level of further education or professional qualification. Shopping in a cheaper Supermarket like Aldi. Not being poor enough to receive any benefits except for child benefit. Owning a car but never being rich enough to buy a brand new car. It is probably the largest demographic. Not rich but not poor. Wealthy enough to live a comfortable life but not wealthy enough to retire until you're really old.
You can work as hard as you like but you won't beat people with family money and connections.
sad, but true :(
I am just retiring at 62ish and claiming social security. I must say, I wish I had just stuck with babysitting as a cash business and socked it all away instead of going to University and working in petty and uncomfortable offices trying to fit in. It was a TOTAL WASTE OF TIME and ruined my back all that stress and sitting immobile for decades. If I had had a decent family who didn’t enjoy riding me and being sadistic I could have at least seen the forest for the trees. And on top of it when I tried to step out of my place and try something new there were always judgmental women there happy to laugh in my face at my lack of a manicure or because I didn’t have a care in the world. Because I clearly did. Do not waste your time and energy trying to fit in if you are a standout. It will only snuff out your 😢😅😮 creative lamp.
In the 1970s, I realised people had to lose their local accents to be taken seriously and accepted in higher social classes, however there were limits. I refused to take on a posh accent and lose all elements of my former speech, though I dropped a lot of it to sound more educated. That process began in a grammar school where there was more of a mix of classes and continued in University where lecturers did not take students seriously if they spoke with a local accent. However because I don't speak 'posh' I still encountered snobbery from some people who wondered at my rank at work with an accent that clearly indicated I'd not been to a top school. Even my in laws judged me as not good enough for their son. Let's say they showed their disappointment in his choice. Partly that was because I did not come from the South of England but from a city they imagined to be 'rough' and because I had Irish born parents. Some of this rankled but mostly I could shrug it off because it was not important to me. Towards the end of my career, I did have a boss at work who would not refer me for promotion when I had lots of knowledge and experience by then and others looked to me to teach them. He said that getting through the next promotion board was not for the likes of people like me (words to that effect). He was ambitious himself and said he had failed his first promotion board and assumed I would automatically fail. I pointed out that I had never failed a promotion board (having been through two) and just wanted a chance, but his belief was strongly ingrained and I don't think he wanted me to do better than he did. Tory governments though are still dominated by people from public schools, many of whom inherited wealth but are often highly ignorant and clueless in areas of knowledge and skills needed for a modern economy.
Gen X Yorkshireman (with accent) here.. Have a good honours degree in Engineering, have worked my whole life.. As a kid I believed in the idea of social mobility, but after 5 decades I know existentially that it was always a lie. Telling working class kids that they can be the prime minister when they grow up is just cruel. Working class kids should know what they can and can't achieve, so that they can maximise what they can achieve.
Are middle or lower class people typically told that? I certainly wasn't.
@@PGHEngineer Well I understood that before I took my degree.. but what I'm saying is we continue as a culture to raise our kids on books that tell them they can achieve anything as long as they try really hard... and that's just a lie. They can achieve SOME THINGS if they try really hard.
@@PGHEngineer I think it's even possible (just about) to become rich if you are tunnel visioned about it, and being rich is absolutely your only goal in life. But you can't be in The Bullingdon club photograph if you didn't go to Eton, then Oxford.
@@ytrichardsenior well yeah, of course if 68 million people all try really hard to become Prime Minister then the vast majority of them will never become Prime Minister, that's pretty obvious from the number of vacancies for the job there are compared with the number of people trying to get the job.
@@markjones979 It's rhetorical.. Pick any role in which you can't find a working class person with a provincial accent.
“The cards have already been dealt before you were born!” - Harry Smith
If you choose to stay. The world is big and it is easy to leave
One of the first things I noticed when moving to Australia (moved from England in 2007) was how it appeared classless. Over the years I've come to see that there are classes of sorts but it's much less than the UK and there would be no issue with moving upwards. Another thing I noticed when first arriving was how much wealthier the average person was, yes there are people living in poverty and there are very rich people but there is a much bigger chunk of people in the middle relative to England. Accent also not an issue in Australia, nobody cares that I grew up in Dudley :-)
You should watched Paradise Postponed (TV mini-series) if you haven't already, it's on KZhead. Explains this phenomenon really well. While it's true you can't buy your way into class or old money, it's always best to keep learning and making yourself more valuable to society in anyway you can and find new ways to make more money. Don't bother with the social class thing, it's an ancient thing and the same everywhere in the world more or less. Regardless of where you are it all depends on your luck and if you're among the right sort of ppl at the right place at the right time, etc. and if they like you enough to decide they want to change your life provided you're up to the job and your fortune favors you. But more or less you're right so don't worry about it too much and do what makes you happy, take it easy! =)
Great comment
My favourite comment in this comments section. 👍
Love this comment
There a something taught in sociology classes about social mobility. It can be done but it is unusual for a person to climb more than 2 levels. The person with a 2 level rise will have children who go to school with those in the 2 levels up social class and become comfortable in the 2 level rise of their parents and they may rise 1-2 levels. Language, social cues and the culture of each level are different. Every culture has this, but it is easier or harder to climb levels depending on the country.
Yes, it's a multi generational thing.
There is very little room at the top. Just 7% of children are privately educated but they get two-thirds of the top jobs. If you’re working class and you want to be successful, you need to use, for example, your feet (like Marcus Rashford), your fists (like Tyson Fury), or your vocal chords (like Johnny Rotten). There are other routes to success for working-class people but there aren’t that many. Ms Joddle is indeed correct: it is extremely difficult for a working-class person to become truly successful by following a career structure.
I believe the number of privately educated kids has doubled since the middle class connived to get rid of the Grammar Schools. So, it's become even harder for the most competent and intelligent to rise to positions where the whole of society might benefit. Any ranking job that's funded with public money is simply seen as "an opportunity" without any consideration of the requirements of the role. It's possible to make an argument that this middle and upper-middle class were wealth creators in the last century. That really hasn't been the case for a very long time, and the drag on our culture and public finances is only going to get worse as they struggle to remain relevant.
The secret to social mobility is to always work for yourself.
@@aikighost always! It's soul destroying to work for idiots unless you're learning something. If you need to learn how the world works, run a market stall for a couple of weeks. Stay honest and don't rip people off. If you need management experience, try volunteering for a charity.
@@CC-hx5fz if youre at a dinner party and someone asks what you do you can almost immediately feel a shift in attitude towards the positive when you tell someone you run your own company.
@@aikighost I've been telling people that I do "a bit of this and that" for over 30 years.
I am Italian so the situation could be a bit different, however I do come from a working class background (I am the first and so far only person in my family with a university degree, my parents were the first with a high school degree, my grandmothers didn't even finish elementary school) and now I'm in one of those professions you mention (an engineer, not a doctor). Currently I do have a well-paid job and could afford e.g. a nice flat but my well being is entirely dependent on a job that's not guaranteed to be secure. Now take someone who comes from a wealthy family (property, connections, etc): these people often do make less than me but their lives are made a lot easier thanks to their milieu and will always have a safety net. At the end of the day in the current economic system social mobility cannot be achieved through wage labour and that's a huge problem.
I wonder what class in Italy are Ukrainians who break spaghetti when they cook it?😁
you are an engineer because UNIVERSITY IS FREE in Italy
It's different for a foreigner, because nobody who is not from your country can tell what your social background is. And in Italy itself there is no longer any social class system, at least not since 1946 when the monarchy was abolished and the aristocracy is just another bunch of rich people who own property and land. In Britain the social structure situation is more complicated and nuanced than that.
As a foreigner myself, I agree with your assessment. Being from outside of Britain, Brits find it more difficult to classify us. Being a migrant has many disadvantages, but this is an advantage.
Exactly. Being born into wealth and privilege is a completely different ball game from trying to achieve mobility through education and work. When you START with lots of money from the moment you are born it opens up possibilities which others will never enjoy. Our parents and politicians know this but are too disheartened to admit it (or have a vested interest to keep quiet).
The notion of social mobility is really good for capitalism. A carrot of false hope to keep the masses motivated.
Love your comment. It's 100% true . The notion spread by hollywood of one day shoe polisher on the street , the next millionaire. That's why people are so mesmerised by all these "talent" shows , sports stars, "celebrities" etc.....believing. the dream is real. When in fact it is like movie with Jane Fonda " They shoot horses , don't they ". I highly recommend watching this movie.
And it's exactly done on purpose to keep masses from rebelling.
It would work if there were better government policies for actually promoting the social mobility. Market systems are an excellent tool provided they are carefully controlled and harnessed. Dispensing with them for pure state control (because the state works so well, as do more local institutions) is single point of failure folly. The people are best served by having many complex systems competing with each other.
too true... capitalism is fueled by myths and delusional to the point of cult-like beliefs.
It's also a real phenomenon, though at least in the U.S. my first job as a sophomore in college, I made minimum wage. 6 years and 2 companies later, I make 100k per year.
I kind of agree with this I think in order to transition you really need to marry out of your class, to remake yourself and essentially abandon your roots. I am Scottish and like to imagine that we are a little more egalitarian than the rest of the UK but a few years ago I was living in London studying for my Masters and went to a party post-grad ex-pat Scots. As the only person there who was from a working class background and not privately educated it only took a few drinks before these people were mocking my accent and suggesting it was like something they would hear while waiting for a flight home from the people who use farmfoods plastic bags as carry on luggage. These were my peers, people I assumed to be friends but deep down they were laughing at me and looking down on me because of the class I was born into and raised within. I think even with dating if you want to retain who you are the class thing often becomes a problem even if they initially find it intriguing, unless you ultimately remake yourself as fully middle class and distance yourself from your background they look down on you, your family, where you come from and your culture and they don't even have any self awareness over that. In the end I married a first generation university educated working class guy who I can be myself with. We have a nice house, money, decent jobs and even some middle class friends but we don't really fit in with them and in some ways we don't really fit in with our families that much either. I've noticed those from my background who do "ascend" are pretty keen to distance themselves from other people of their birth class perhaps because they worry we will expose them or highlight who they actually are. There was a very brief period of social mobility in the post war era through the 50s and 60s in particular but sometime during the 70s and 80s that door closed. For a long time though there was an attitude which still exists amongst older generations that they just worked hard and succeeded and the reason younger people fail is because they are lazy or their expectations are too high, they failed to realise that the material conditions had fundamentally altered for younger generations.
Thanks for sharing. 👍
It's not the UK, it's England specifically, isn't it? I'm from Sweden and to me the upper class and the upper middle class there seem like the most arrogant brats in Stockholm City that you could possibly find.
@@francisdec1615 How do you know that? Do you spend a lot of time interacting with upper middle class and upper class people in England?
@@PGHEngineer There are things like the internet and television, for instance🙄 It's not exactly a secret what a disgusting bunch the English "elite" are.
Great comment, you've encapsulated it all. So right about those brief windows of opportunity. I was trying to explain the burden of judging people by accent to a group of foreigners recently, but they seemed puzzled by my explanation.
Social mobility these days just seems to be, if you have no debt, have 6 months of emergency savings, and some sort of pension beyond the state pension, you're winning. I couldn't care less about being socially mobile. So long as I have some semblance of security in own very small way, that's all that matters. Comparison is the thief of joy.
Very true!
Totally agree Jade, however the Middle Class has been in decline all across the western world for some years now. Most middle class graduates will never be able to buy a property, and let's not mention the cost of the Private Rental Sector. Graduates now leave Uni will high debt levels, only to go into a profession that has not kept up with the cost of the living. Another serious problem the next generation will face, is mass job sector replacement. It amazes me how little the so called well educated middle class know about the advancement of A.I automation and Robotics, as its progressing so fast. Many profession won't require years of education, as it will run more efficiently by a A.I program, such as Acountancy and Graphic Design etc.. Eventually it will be just the working poor and the ultra wealthy, with no middle class.
I broadly agree with you. What's concerning is that it has been recognised since ancient Greece that a healthy democracy needs a thriving middle class.
Spot on Jade. I grew up poor in the UK. Fortunately, I was very good academically and left the UK for the USA 42 years ago after getting a PhD. I am doing much better here than I ever could have in the UK. I remember going for an interview in the UK after getting my PhD, and the first question was “father’s occupation?” Time to leave.
I once tried to find the secret of social ladder to move up. There was this poor woman fighting to get out of poverty and I took it as a personal project to make this world better. In a way she was my PhD project in the university of life on economics. In the end she failed, but she ended up marrying a guy in a good situation so she finally got out by marrying. Society has not changed in 40 years when I heard that was the way for women to go up in the social ladder..
Only experienced social mobility once in my life - when I got out of the UK. Medieval mindset, ugh.
I'm British and the son of an Irish Catholic labourer. I did a degree in electronics. I graduated with a degree in electronics but left uni at the end of the Cold War, which meant I could not get a job for love nor money. After a year on the dole I finally got a low wage technician job with quite a few of my colleagues being downsized ex-defence workers. I went back to my uni a decade after a graduated and met up with an old professor. After a brief conversation I realised that they no longer taught my degree, "Since that sort of work is now done in the Far East, we no longer see the point in teaching it. In fact, you'd be hard pressed to find an institution in the UK that does". In my experience, no matter how highly educated, highly skilled or highly experienced you are it does no guarantee anything. I once lost a job after twenty years and on the day I was sacked my boss said to me, "Look Ged, nobody will be doing what we do in five years time". Guess what, he was spot on and all my colleagues were sacked five years later.
@@PGHEngineerthat is why you learn to invest and chose a high paying sector. I did a maths and finance degree , followed by masters in real estate finance. Made over £200k since 26 and now approaching late 30s have a few million in stock market and real estate. So I can build wealth without a so called job and create gnwrational wealth.
@@PGHEngineer Where do you work and are you recruiting?
100% agree, there IS a social or CASTE system in the UK. From Eton College, to Homeowners...
Do your best and enter med school, things will probably be easier.
@@ChakokkNo Med school in the UK is for the rich. Doctors don't make that much there, either. Most doctors in the UK are foreign because Brits with the kind of money that med school requires don't want to be slaves with long hours and bad pay.
There is a caste system in America as well. We just pretend there isn't. You either have to be born into the upper middle class or have some exceptional talent and ability to enter it. Average joes need not apply.
There is only a few ways to wealth Real Estate, Equity markets like Stocks and commodities, inheritance, being an entertainer, and starting a business, and all of them have high barriers to entry except the stock market.
@@edennis8578YOUNG doctors don’t earn that much. Honestly, it’s funny to see them protesting every other month for better pay while they lack medical experience 🙄
It's rapidly becoming this way here in the US. Today, even when you have a "useful" college degree, marketable job skills, work both hard and smart, have no substance abuse issues, have no criminal record, it's become very hard to earn enough to keep your head above water. Today, a lot of homeless people have college degrees and good job skills but they aren't able to make enough to pay the rapidly rising rents or home prices. Also, even when you go to school to learn new skills, it often doesn't translate into a bigger paycheck. And job promotions also often don't mean higher wages or salaries.
The US looks like a corrupt oligarchy to me. You guys need to ditch the federal government. Start again.
True. I worked for an engineering company here in the USA. I had a tech working for me who used to be in the building trade. He told me confidentially, he was disappointed how little he was being paid. He told me how hard he had studied to get this job and it paid only half what he was making in construction. He thought he could advance to higher pay with experience, but HR told him he was already maxed out on salary. He said to me, "It seems the higher up you get, the less they pay you." I felt bad for him. He was living a dream of social mobility and had put in the work, time, and effort to attain his goals. But no one had told him it wasn't worth the effort because the game is rigged before you even get started.
@@bobblacka918 i started a business data analytics degree but unfortunatey now idk if i should switch to business with a minor in business data analytics or a bs accouting finance with minor in business data analytics (can get exemptions for acca) can i go for data analytics roles with it ? :/ really didnt wanna switch but ugh
@@aena5995 : Almost all engineering jobs have been sent overseas because they can hire 3 foreign engineers for the cost of one US engineer. I was in defense design, and that was supposed to be only allowed in the USA. But management found novel ways to send those jobs overseas. When they started laying off engineers where I worked, I saw the future so I retired 1 year ahead of schedule. The biggest threat to jobs now is AI. I predict all data analysis will soon be done with AI so that doesn't seem to have a great future. I would look for a job that can't been done with AI in the next 30 years or so. It's a tough call. Frankly, I love engineering work, but wouldn't recommend it to anyone these days. Talk to your school counselors. They might have a better insight to which direction the jobs will go.
This is so true
True nobility we all should aspire to is the nobility of spirit.
And human decency.
True.. COMPETITIVE HIGHER EDUCATION IS THE ONLY TICKET THAT WILL GET YOU THERE GIRL! So.. Why not start by telling us about the kind of car you drive /education / university you attended?? Glad she decided to talk about this, though she chose to leave us in the dark about WHAT SHE ACTUALLY DID WITH HER LIFE?? 😉🤓
I am just an immigrant in the UK but in my job hunting and in work interviews I noticed all the points you mentioned in the video. Sometimes they were more interested in knowing the of kind of family I come from or which social status I had in my country than in my profesional experience and qualifications, (and I studied in an international university)
As a “working class” person, I’m confident in my own abilities and in myself. I’ve got a good career and although busy, I make the time to look after my loved ones and try my best to get my priorities right. I have several hobbies that I really enjoy (time permitting) and lead a full and active life. No, it’s not perfect and there are good days and bad days, but overall, I’m happy with my lot. This hasn’t happened by accident. I really couldn’t care less about becoming “middle class” of ‘climbing the ladder’ I know plenty of people from different backgrounds and social classes. Some are poor but happy, some are poor and miserable. Same for those that I know with money/success. Some are happy, some not. Find your own path in life and learn to love yourself.
Truly strange watching this. I left Ukraine for the UK just before the war started with my family, and only noticed 'class' behaviour from one real estate agent, she basically inferred that they wouldn't have me as a client, that was until I said I'd pay for 12 months up front, whereupon she took me to a place I wouldn't keep a dog in with extortionate rent, and effectively told me that I should be grateful anywhere. It felt like she was more working class and wanted to put me in my place. Don't play the 'class' game, life is too short.
Да, такие здесь люди
Its not only higher social classes that get on, it is a fact that working class are always discriminated against in favour of another ‘privileged class’ something altogether different to what is generally understood by the term ‘ working class’ in all respects. I agree, once youve had the realisation it becomes about damage limitation, concentrate on things that are self determined, things that are within your own control. I think you’re making a very valid and little discussed observation. Keep it up 💐
Thank you for your honest and wise words . Way too many don't see this , refuse to acknowledge it , or know it but pretend otherwise .
This is why I love tech. No matter who you are or where you're from, as long as you have the skills and some half-decent communication skills, you can easily earn more than in any of these typical 'class' jobs. If you want to be treated well regardless of background, I'd recommend moving to one of the North/West european countries like The Netherlands.
100%, one of the biggest issues i've found is engineers with poor communication limit themselves on climbing up or advancing their career.
@@NeilMartin98 Agreed 💯
I think that a lot of the people commenting don't fully understand. Class in the UK in not synonymous with wealth, or fame. It is mostly which family you were born into. There are very few routes into the upper classes. Marriage maybe. Or becoming a general or admiral. Even then, you are not properly upper-class. It comes down to 'breeding'. Some of those locked doors can be opened, however, by speaking 'properly' and dressing well. And, without wishing to be to critical.... washing your hair.
I love your last comment. It shows that you're part of the problem.
*too critical
@@daverich3352 In what context - according to who?
@@PGHEngineer No - the upper class is much larger than just the titled aristocracy. But you are right - being 'well off' has little to do with it in the UK. I admit, I had to look up Jim Ratcliff. I can't give you a definitive answer on his status. Let me give you a different example though. Wayne Rooney. Also very wealthy (if significantly less so than Sir Jim). Do a survey on the street in the UK and ask people if they would call him upper class? I doubt very much that they would. Money is therefore not the defining factor.
@@PGHEngineer Well - you were just interested in whether or not I would class Jim Ratcliff as upper class. I am assuming you chose him because of his wealth. I merely chose an extreme example to show that wealth doesn't equal upper class. I think we are arguing about something that we haven't yet properly defined. I think we have ruled out wealth though. I think that the upper classes in the UK are linked to old aristocratic families (whether or not they have titles themselves - think of 'Mr' Darcy) and 'old money' generally. What you, I or the average person on the street thinks is, I agree, irrelevant. But if you come from an 'old' family, went to a public school, Oxbridge and have the right accent.. then doors open for you that don't open for the average person on the street. Those people are the upper classes.
Why would you want to rise up the ladder in a criminal debt slave system?
💯 and be miserable
a better view.
well said !
exactly
Great advice, understand the structures around you (even if they are corrupt) and stop putting your energy in the wrong direction.
There was a brief period of social mobility in the UK during the immediate post war decades when we had the 11 plus and grammar schools - it wasn't perfect but it was the closest we've ever got to a true meritocracy and saw unprecedented numbers of working class people start to actually occupy the higher strata of society, which is why it was stopped. Public schools were going out of business and the hereditary elite were losing their status. They made a lot of crappy excuses for it's abolition, basically using a lot of guilt tripping, blame shifting and psychological manipulation, claiming how concerned they were for the poor who weren't selected. Which we of course know was complete bunkum - they didn't and don't give a crap for the poor, gifted or not. You can still get to the top from a low base, and there are examples of individuals who have, but it's much harder. Which is why social mobility has stalled. None of this is accidental though, I'm afraid.
What was the '11 plus'? Also why are grammar schools beneficial for social mobility? I don't know much about them, curious to learn :)
You mean it was Planned?!!
@@cm-yu6gu It was a selection exam used in the 40s/50s/60s to assist gifted poor pupils. Yes it excluded the ungifted, but it gave a top level education to talented individuals from poor backgrounds and provided a pathway to use their gifts to achieve success. It was so efficient it threatened the UK elite's monopoly, so they scrapped it in the 70s (I think) making all sorts of spurious moral arguments. It has been made 'controversial' by the establishment UK media ever since who always tug on the heart strings / jealousy of the working class, emphasising the'' unfairness'' of meritocratic selection. (preferring instead privilege through inherited wealth) Most of the grammars were trashed by the people who benefitted from them and turned into comprehensives (one size fits all) .
@@mikeoglen6848 Yes, most likely. Or rather, vociferous self-interest groups got their way.
Similar here in the United States of America . They have done a number on the working and middle classes . The Professional Class with specialized degrees , and multiple graduate degrees , are doing well and above . Yes , most definitely by design . Too many of the WW2 generation and their children were getting ahead and that had to be stopped . The Rothschilds and Schwabs and similar here in the USA are proud of their efforts . Some still don't get it and are in denial .
I agree entirely. Well done and thank you for highlighting this unspoken topic. I did not have the right accent for a number of jobs so wasted my time. If only I had been warned or been cleverer enough to know. Spread the message: it's not what you know in the UK but what class you are- look at dumb Boris or Tress...
Ironically, in unsung Eastern EU countries like Poland, Hungary or Croatia, you can live the equivalent of a Western upper middle class life these days -- if you work and live there, and obviously work in the private sector as opposed to the local public sector. That's because private sector wages skyrocketed in most of these eastern countries relative to local real estate prices, bills, insurance etc. You can buy and upkeep a quaint lakeside home in Hungary that you could never afford in the UK.
Eastern Europe is not so much divided by class as by clan. Who you know, are related to, etc. But we do have social mobility, and a lot of it. People with peasant backgrounds now renowned doctors or professors. I had a highschool collegue whose mother was a cleaning lady and of Roma origin, he is now a wealthy lawyer. But we were more mixed as of social origin in school in those times, I think slowly schools are becoming more segregated by social class and wealth. But at least there is no distinction among us as regards our accents (only by region, not by class, I mean).
Same here in Portugal. You don't have to have much money to have a very good quality of life.
@@mimisor66 This is true in Portugal where I live, too. The problem here is nepotism (restricting opportunities for others) rather than class in the way that people think of it in the UK.
Strange how the young people(especially the women) seem very keen to leave those countries at the earliest possible opportunity to come to the UK?
Shut up dude, we don't want to hear about Easter eu
And just like that *snaps fingers * we are, socially, back in the pre modern era. Turns out it was all just veneer.
Cough veneer (silly excuse for your own lack of higher intelligence) indeed.. Except there exists no veneer what so ever for all those who where bright students and excelled academically and got into medical / engineering university programs in Cambridge or oxford! why..WHY COULDN'T YOU? 😒 No excuses to save you now aye!
Feudalism > Capitalism -> Neo Feudalism. There, five hundred years.
Your family connections and education are everything. Trying to elevate yourself in terms of how to affect an accent or mannerisms will expose you and leave you feeling unhappy. Confidence and a cheerful demeanour with a work ethic will get you somewhere.
My mother achieved her life dream in 1956, emigrating to Australia with her 3 kids. Best thing we ever did. All of us succeeded, and our kids are absolutely massive successes and quite rich.
Can you say the same for modern immigrants to Australia? The median house price in Sydney is $1.6m.
Success doing what for a living?
My family was gonna move to Australia but every time I see something on the news or internet about Australia I thank heavens they didn't move there lol
Australia has a high quality of living but also has its own issues too relating to house prices, immigration and poverty, wIth relative poverty growing as outlined by the Australian Council. No where is without sin. It is a very popular destination for young professionals though and all the power to them!
Australia is a difficult country to live in if you are creative, sports mad people will love it.
Even in the USSR, they had a social system that conferred privilege to party hacks/friends/family. Basically, just make sure you are born to the ‘right’ people if you want the best for yourself!
Yes especially if you have contacts or uncle in kgb. Not much changed really i live in post ssr country😅
@@karimtabrizi376 It's just cruel & sad that so many still believe they can get to the top merely based on their skills, knowledge/talent and experience.
Yes, socialism and communism are the worst. What we have today is probably more akin to fascism but without the nationalism. I believe best termed: Corporatism. They say we have capitalism, but we don’t. We don’t have a free market. We don’t have private property rights. If I don’t pay the council they will take my house whether it’s mortgage free or not. I get very little in return for 330 a month. The central banks are privately owned. The Bank of England hides it well. The federal reserve isn’t federal and has no reserves. They control the supply of currency. Currency is what we store our excess productive time in and they can dilute it at anytime. Hence we called that term ‘inflation’. If the supply of one half of every trade is controlled by the banks, and they control the supply and the price of money; interest rates. They can rig the market. Add all the excess regulations that rule every part of our lives. That are written by corporations and given to the politicians to rubber stamp. You’ve not got freedom or a much of a chance of climbing the ladder.
@@paarker Read what the ancient Greek philosopher Aristotle has to say about tyranny - very instructive.
Yes, my grandgrandmother and grandgrandfather were peasants and they were shot and my grandma became a cleaning lady. I suppose it is really a success.
The algorithm brought me here. I think we need more content like this. How REAL life works. Whether it’s our preference or not. So much information on the internet is based on non-reality and it’s causing a LOT of pain and destruction in their life.
Well said. There is unfortunately far too much rubbish floating around online nowadays telling people how they can all be millionaires by posting selfies on social media… definitely need more content like this which is good realistic advice on how best direct your efforts in life
You are absolutely right. Many Black people in the UK refer to something called code-switching when speaking in a professional setting. What they don't know is that even white English people ALSO code-switch. I knew a girl from Gloucestershire who would plum up her Sloane accent in our workplace. Sometimes I would catch her out with her strong welsh crossover. I throughout my years have also changed my accent. As a teenager I would speak as a roadman coming from a working-class setting of London. I was referred to as a Chav by relatives. It was only until I failed at College and subsequently ended up with adults some of whom were from around the world I realised that they couldn't understand me. So I started to speak in simplified English. I went on to Uni and met Europeans and other nationalities and started to change my accent even more so. However, it was only until I got into my career (which was professional services/posh) I started to tart up my accent. Or at least so I believed. I was at the coffee machine and the Miss Gloucstershire was small talking with me and I mentioned Battersea. She quickly said 'Baersea'. I started laughing and she did too. It was one of those moments we laughed because we were keenly aware I just dropped the T. I was a little tart and so was she.
What does "Sloane accent" means? Any example one could herd?
Same happens in France. If you have a strong accent from the south or the North you are willing to be taken less seriously. The surname is also important. People from lower or Middle classes often have italian, american or irish surnames such as Enzo, Dylan, Davis, Jordan, Kevin, Kelly and so on. It was proven what when you had those surnames it was more difficult to get a well paid job in a big corporation that if you name was Pierre or Paul. Even officials from the government mock and shame those you wear those surnames very often.
@@forzaeonore780 Surely you mean Christian or first name, not surname? An American surname? Well that would have to be native American, American surnames are generally European.
I do this too, my partner has noticed it on teams calls. I'm from the North West but when on a teams call or something similar I always change to a type of phone voice subconsciously. Odd!
@@simonh6371 Sorry yes i meant First name and not surname i just didn't know how it was called in English.
It just occurred to me that I'm completely blind when it comes to the social realm. I had no idea one has to go through all this hassle to become part of some class of people and only care about having free time to indulge in hobbies and making enough money to not have to worry about basic needs being met. Working less and having more fee time is what constitutes wealth in my head. What other people think of me imo is their problem, not mine. Most people seem miserable regardless where they find themselves.
Wise words
So true, well said
The hours of our life are priceless
I agree. In London if you go searching for any serious job, you run out of money before you find a job. Even with real qualifications it’s true.
Quit London and the Anglo-class system in 1969 for Australia. Zero regrets.
Planning in doing the same here
Australia? Is not Australia the same as UK? Is it not the same system? How do you mean it is better?
In Australia it does not matter as much who you father knows and how much money he has. It matters, but not as much as in the UK. In Australia your work ethic and what you bring to the table is much more important. @@airgin3000
@@airgin3000It is now, in 1969 not so much.
Or you can also try the United States. Don't knock it, things are as bad here as you may have heard.
Quit London for central Europe in 2015. Never looked back.
That means nothing when more people have been making that move in the opposite direction every year for the last couple of decades!
@@amateurcameraman i started a business data analytics degree but unfortunatey now idk if i should switch to business with a minor in business data analytics or a bs accouting finance with minor in business data analytics (can get exemptions for acca) can i go for data analytics roles with it ? :/ really didnt wanna switch but ugh
@@amateurcameramanThey are sending their worst. We are sending our best.
I agree with you to a great extent. I'm Welsh and I was talking to a friend of mine at a school reunion. She is a lawyer in London and she commented that she couldn't speak like me in her work in London ie a Cardiff accent would be frowned upon.
I can tell you something that I figured out a long time ago. It's all fixed. And I mean everything.
It so is. Let’s not be hard on ourselves for “failing”😅 I got in but I didn’t get on and left the country in frustration. Never did realise my full potential had the chops though!
Climbing over the backs of others less fortunate is unsocial, even anti-social. The veneer of civility is paper thin.
Cough veneer (silly excuse for your own lack of higher intelligence) indeed.. Except there exists no veneer what so ever for all those who where bright students and excelled academically and got into medical / engineering university programs in Cambridge or oxford! why..WHY COULDN'T YOU? 😒
If you want to understand how this country really works, you need to examine the military structure and its relation to the City. There's an old boys network that runs things.
This...Might makes right.
Exactly. It goes right back to the Norman Conquest and the Norman elites who still run the country, 1000 years hence. Just look out for the Norman-French surnames that regularly crop up in the higher circles such as the judiciary, military generals, bankers, clergy, conservative politicians, lords, land-owners, media owners and editors. There will be Lamonts, Montgomerys, Mordaunts, Percys, Spencers, Beauchamp, Baileys, Chamberlains, Devereuxs, D'Arcys, Granvilles, Fortesques, Lyons, Nevilles, Russells, Sinclair, Tracey, etc... just look out for names like that in the higher-reaches of English society and you will confrim the 'Old Boy Network' has been solid for 1000 years. We plebs have no chance in class-ridden England.
There are professions in America that require nepotism to get in. Social mobility is probably worse though in the UK. Growing up in America, it was always people from the lower classes that mocked the way I spoke.
The difference between the US and UK is that if egregious nepotism or outright fraud is discovered, the US goes nuts on it whereas the UK will sweep it back under the rug. A good example of this is the college cheating scandal that occurred in the US recently...if that had happened in the UK it would never have made the papers.
Nepotism a thing here too...
To a much lesser extent. It is becoming a bigger problem in Hollywood and other places.@@rainyblain
or require nepotism or require millions of money to pay university fees
mocked the way I spoke. - do you mean british accent?
Wrong place wrong time. 7 of us in a small council house with dad a coal miner dad an Italian immigrant mum. All home owning professionals now. Why did we suceed? Hard work, good values, natural ability? These helped but most of all we had council housing, free healthcare and supported education. It's not that hard to fathom. Sometimes you have to act with others to change yourself. Now
I agree but most people seemed to be scared to see it that way now.
My children ticked all the boxes for failure and have all done well. Determination, hard work and a refusal feel intimidated or victimized. They also washed their hair occasionally
I think the problem isn't the UK, it's people like this content creator and some of the people in these comments. Success doesn't just land in your lap, you have to set goals and work hard. There is no hidden system holding you back, just you. Make good life decisions early in your life and you will succeed.
@joannasimmonds3706 well said, bit of shampoo is not expensive. And a bar of soap.
Compl@@markbutterfield5093completely agree 👍.
That disconnect is called the ‘everywhere people’. Locals have nothing in common with people with people who can live anywhere. I’d say this is a dangerous disconnect for society. Locals are getting more and more angry at being ruled by people elsewhere.
Reality is that they never had anything in common with the upper middle class and the upper class. They where simply manipulated by myth’s of national unity and hope. From my experience from growing up in the upper middle class. I see the divide more and more clear. The lower classes often have alot of trauma and get mental dissorders like narcissism, drug, alcohol addiction, depression in a higher degree. So even when they do get a education, they don’t learn to take care of their health or they become toxic. I used to have many friends from the working class that i meet socialising at the pub/clubs. But now at 40 i don’t socialise with them anymore. The lack of culture also meens that we don’t have the same interests. I think financial/economic mobility is possible in a higher degree. But social mobility is alot harder. Modern populist politics will also just make it worse. The upper middle, rich will just isolate socialy and think populist sentiments are vulgar/bizzar/primitiv/irrational/narcissistic/ markers of low class
I like that one. "Everywhere people". That describes a vast swath of people I recognized crossed various cities I've visited for work. They always seem out of place, but always have enough plastic to swipe anywhere and anytime.
Basically they are economic/mercinary itinerants.@@joefer5360
Dude that is very precise and I know exactly what you mean I had a girlfriend who came from a distinguished old German family she had lived all over the world she has a mom in Italy a father in Germany a sister in Japan etc.. and they definitely looked down on my family who are all hardcore Southern locals who basically built the Gulf Coast but the “everywhere people” basically consider anyone who doesn’t have a story about living in every country on the earth to be simpletons Those people move to trendy cities but never blend in just tuck themselves away in a luxurious area and criticize the local culture
@@Ikaros23Exhibit A
Thank you dear Jade❤ You are always so sincere and your ideas are highly appreciated Love your accent ❤❤❤
Lie, cheat and steal is how most have risen through the class system. Kenan Malik wrote - and the comments btl - an interesting piece in the Observer this weekend ("What a legendary historian tells us about the contempt for today's working class")
Your right in what you say here; if I have understood this years ago I would have emigrated. In London, yes money is a significant factor but also politics; even if you not particularly political. If you're not a liberal/left wing guardian reader and have your own opinions, you’ll find it very hard to mix a dinner parties and not get pounced on by somebody if you say something that doesn’t conform to their received opinions.
Interesting take considering those with real power and connections in the UK . 🇬🇧
I like the term ''received opinions'' and it's very appropriate actually, just surprised that I never thought of the term myself! It always used to be about RP i.e. received pronunciation but by God is the term received opinions appropriate! Sad but true.
Well spoken Jade - listening to your thoughts was certainly a breath of fresh air and a lesson on how to live and what to expect from others. I left England nearly 4 decades ago but your experience serves as a good extrapolation of what I felt then. Looking forward to watching more of your videos in the future - a well deserved Subscribe from me!
Jade, I've seen some of your videos and you are absolutely amazing just the way you are. With your knowledge and experience you could go anywhere in the world. Best of luck! :)))
I like to interact with common people every now and then.
😁
I heard of them too!
Social mobility is almost impossible everywhere and has always had.
I think this is what made the New World unique.
we don't have this class structure in the USA. we are not overly concerned with where you come from. we look at where you are going in life. the future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams. USA!!!
This is the right attitude for sure!
I 100% agree. I left the UK in 1986. Learn languages and travel everybody 🤔👍. Working class people are those who have to wait for their pay at the end of the month and often go overdrawn at the bank.
And how exactly does that help anyone ? Did you come into an inheritance or something ? Just sayin' as 'gap yah' travel tends to cost ..
@@billyliar1614 Last month I stopped being working class when I retired at 62. I'm now a musician and very small property entrepreneur. That a-hole Tebbit would have said something about bikes. GET THE HELL OUT OF THAT COUNTRY while you still can...
@@billyliar1614Perhaps because if you are educated , know and speak other languages , and move frequently you can make more money . Of course one has to plan , save , and invest , for the days to come when health and age will prevent the continuation of that lifestyle . I've noticed in my area that people whom are educated and move here from other areas are paid more than locals with the same degree and expertise . People whom are willing to move around with their Profession , especially Internationally , make more money . People that stay in one place until retirement make less .
@@andrewrobinson2565 Thanks for the advice. What country did you move to and what did you do ? Why was it better there than the UK ? I can understand why people from the Third Wold come to the UK for a better standard of living but it doesn't seem to work the other way around unless you have made a stash already and want to work on your suntan. A rolling stone gathers no moss and while globe trotting sounds appealing and indeed would be if money were no concern, when you're tied into pension schemes, mortgages, family etc. it doesn't seem so straightforward
@@billyliar1614 I have a SIPP* (self-investment pension plan) along with my wife, and we have two bilingual children in their thirties. I used my language and music skills to work as little as possible for a lot of money 💰. *in bricks and mortar 🧱 (It always seemed to us that family, social and geographical factors were prohibitive to advancement in the UK, whilst we have found life in France to be the complete opposite.)
In the US, it's almost equivalent, though something of a taboo: it's old-money Ivy League VS everybody else. All past presidents, even Obama, are basically old money.
It is a caste system. With a stiff upper lip.
Nobody really talks about it so thank you so much! Everyone just pretends on social media they are doing great, some follow success coaches and money gurus, some believe you just need to be positive and that "positive thinking" can change everything. So your video is very extremely close to my experiences and struggles. I feel the same.
I married into a higher class, our differences make us laugh and we tease each other. I do scrub up well and I’m the poshest working class girl you’re likely to meet, Im not playing at this, I’m amusing myself. I’m as comfortable having dinner at Claridges as I am having a drink in the local working men’s club. The difference between me and the ‘posh’ folk is that I will have a conversation with the waitress. My head belongs with the working class, and I care deeply about others and their struggles. Our son identifies more with the working class but with all the trappings of the Upper Middle Class including Nepotism. My son also told his girlfriend that I’m from a Council Estate, she doesn’t believe him 🤣😂
Move to America! It is still the Land of Opportunity! All you have to do is be willing to work hard, use your brain, and network. And people will think your accent is cool!
China and lesser-extent Russia are the lands of opportunity now. So many business opportunities have opened up the past year or so and they accept, appreciate genuine qualified people
You have to be willing to work hard for the benefit of everyone else who doesn't want to work or doesn't legally belong in the first place. What they don't get from you in taxes they will take through the inflation tax. What a deal.
Black pill much?@@jimbo7577
True
Fiona Hill did brilliantly
I have always found people take you at your own valuation of yourself. As a rule humans the world over have a tendency towards self censoring and stifling their innate personalities when entering new circles and circumstances. Self confidence will always get you further in life than self doubt. Double down on who you inherently are and the right people will find and gravitate into your life. Be they above or below you in “social standing”. That’s the best part of expressing who you truly are to the world, you then know that the people that are drawn to you are the ones that like the authentic you, not a meek watered down version of you that you present to the world. Life is a wonderful thing when surrounded by people that resonate with your soul 😃🙌
I agree totally and could not have worded it better ..Having come from stock of two extremes of the social ladder so to speak and lived within both
I think that's one of the things public schools give the select few who go there, self-confidence. Sadly it's sometimes misplaced as we see everyday in UK government now.
@@heliotropezzz333 You reminded me of the Charles Bukowski quote... "The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence." With that being said, self confidence will harbour and fortify you with the mental fortitude to persevere towards competency. This is a large marker for success in any realm of human endeavour.
Delusional
@@eztyson I think resilience might do as well as self-confidence. Politicians should always be open to challenge though, to test their assumptions.
this was very interesting! thank you for speaking about this topic
London within the M25 is very different to the rest of England/UK. There is a certain type of London middle class that is more about skills and money than class. In the Home Counties though the class system is extremely rigid. I'm living in Devon. There is a lot of poverty here. There are some rich people, but there is no social cohesion at all, its almost like they hide in mini mansions in the nice parts of Devon. The rich even go to a small handful of expensive gastropubs/boutique hotels, they are hardly known to the general public. You hardly ever/never see these secretive wealthy in everyday places like supermarkets, costa. There's no way an ordinary person from working or lower middle class is going to make it into this secret wealthy world in rural English counties or cities outside London.
Yes, but we go there because we don’t want to mix with the lower classes. This is s why we shop at Waitrose and John Lewis.
As a working class guy from poor family who owned a shop in a really rough part of Salford for many years... Yes, you can move up. My wife is also a true cockney... So doubly... Yes, you can move up. The thing is... Class really isn't what many people think anymore. Class is for snobs who just want to be "Better". It isn't about jobs. It REALLY isn't about how much money you have... It really isn't about who your parents are. My aunt is a high end dentist. She is a land owner and at one point was considering buying a title (Yes, you can buy them) So that just shows you that class really isn't a thing. But then... Who cares what some brass arse swaggard thinks, says or does? Fuck 'em.
It can happen generationally. My grandfather was lower working class, but he raised my family to the lower middle class. My father then raised himself and us into the upper middle class. We were born into an upper middle class world, and that is how we were raised and socialised. You're right, it's NOT about money, it's about how you hold yourself socially (how you speak, how you act, how you were raised).
A fascinating subject, I can relate to and appreciate all your observations. The UK class system is certainly alive and well. I would say I was upper working class (comprehensive school education, lived in rented accommodation) as a child,. however maybe I have made it to lower middle class as I am now a home owner and have a university education, but that is the ceiling. I have noticed I do feel uncomfortable around proper middle class people as I do not have the same background, interests, job titles or confidence. Something that I also find is my class is perceived differently in different regions, in the north I am treated far more as if I have always been middle class than I am at home, because my southern sounding accent is seen as posh in the north (I think).
Great observation, Jade!
Love your honesty!
This is something new for me. I've never heard about these kind of classes.
Thanks a lot for sharing your thoughts. You're a real life coach.
I work in the civil service. There are huge divides in the civil service at mid and upper grades. It was once commented that the civil service is less diverse than Oxford or Cambridge university. I have found it nearly impossible to progress to the next grade due to social mobility issues.
Because there are things they don't want you to know . How things really work and where the money really goes . If you moved up above a certain level - you may find out things you don't like and want to change or expose . They prevent that by not allowing some from below to move past ( rise above) a certain level . Bloodlines and historic genealogy enter the picture along with hidden knowledge . Tickety Boo . Keep Calm and Carry On .
Issues of British social class today are perhaps not so different than they were back in 1900. Probably a similar situation carries on in most societies. There are barriers to escaping from your "class". George Bernard Shaw raised these questions in his 1913 play, "Pygmalion". Professor Henry Higgins boasts of being able to teach upper class speech and mannerisms to working class woman Eliza Dolittle: "In three months, I could pass her off as a duchess at an ambassador's reception." [quoting from the 1938 movie]
Yes, it’s an odd little country we have. A good friend once told me this: ‘The French had a revolution and the people won, and they never let their government forget it. Britain had a revolution and our government won, and THEY never let the people forget it.’. I feel this is true. In almost everything - roads, amenities, schooling, chances of buying your own home, pay - we’ve slumped backward to somewhere south of 1990. Take care all.
Thank you for talk out on this
It's so strange to hear someone else say that, especially cause i guess you're born and bred over there? I was a student immigrant for a little over 2 years. Did everything in and outside of my power to change all my colors in order to fit in, and to mix as you say. To be good. Sacrificing my natural boundaries in order to "emerge the better" and be noticed, as i believed i deserved. Long story short, these people are where they are cause it's part of families and circles they were born into. It wasn't all bad, i respect many talented friends that i had during that time, but also, people with power and privilege, they hold social and cultural capital, and they have these unspoken ways of maintaining themselves in a central position of dominance. It's all another profit driven bubble. It was a huge aspiration, nowadays, it's in my rearview, i guess. Know your limitations, always. Don't wreck yourself for nothing, you and your life are precious ❤ and bigger than just another bubble
Thank you for taking the time into explaining all of this. It's pretty obvious, to me at least, how paramount and relevant is social class in the UK. There are people who learn English expecting to encounter native speakers who use RP on a daily basis. Come on, man, most likely you won't be able to rent or buy a house in Belgravia. You don't need to sound uppity since your actual background is far from it. People tend to romanticise London and the UK in general due to several films and series that delve into upper class people's lives.
what is RP?
@@alexmarsh1839Received Pronunciation. How BBC news casters on radio used to speak in the 1940s.
Under the conditions that you took as a foundation for your thoughts, I would think that 'social mobility' is impossible anywhere in the world. In the UK (where belonging to a 'class' seems to be something you inherit with birth) it is eventually even more complicated than elsewhere.