Super Simple Evaporust Clone for Pennies! - ElementalMaker
RECIPE BELOW: I developed a pretty darn good DIY knockoff version of Evaporust that costs about 75 cents a gallon to make. We also test it against real evaporust, white vinegar, and citric acid
Link for Tetrasodium EDTA: amzn.to/3kKsYD0
Link for Citric Acid: amzn.to/3bheDec
Link for Evaporust: amzn.to/3ad8nSP
My Favorite Ph Paper: amzn.to/3sWTU5j
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Recipe: The best results I found were 100mL purified water, 5g Tetrasodium EDTA, enough citric acid to buffer to 6.5 Ph, and a few drops of dishwashing liquid (any good surfactant should work)
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Sponsored by YOU! No seriously I couldn't do this without your support, so a big thanks to my patrons at www.patreon.com/elementalmaker. Please consider throwing a dime at this homeless guy you call ElementalMaker. Hes' homeless because he lives in his workshop. Not really. But Maybe.
Are you actually autistic? Me too.
thiourea and sulfamic acid? Two good suspects for the Evaporust secret recipe. Edit: /salute from another 'technically homeless' guy living at work. This economy sucks.
Youre not homeless! Homeless guys have nasty beards, youre just a pair of Adam's Family extra's & a disembodied voice - your "home" could just be a pair of gloves! 😉
can make a vid on brewing and distilling alcohol?
You remind me of mr wizard from the late 70s- late 80s
Seven dislikes are from evaporust's patent lawyers sweating nervously
It's at 14 dislikes now
When I reverse engineer, I go STREIGHT for the SDS or MSDS! sometimes one gets lucky
@@davefellhoelter1343 No help in this case, unless you can tell me what "Trade Secret" is.
@@1978garfield I can't get my hands on any Evaorust to read the Haz or Active ingredients, but "I Have" OJT for Passivation in pharma, aero, electronics, and industrial. short of this my "go to" is Citric acid(vitimin C) @ about 180f after cleaning solvent of TSP at same temp for iron oxide rust removal.
@@davefellhoelter1343 vitamin C is ascorbic acid
The big advantage of Evaporust is you can flood the surface using an aquarium pump. Run that overnight and rust is gone.
That's a great tip! Never thought to do that
and it's reusable. filter out particles and put back in to a clean container. keep used Evaporust separate from new Evap'st.
I found some patents for rust removers that use sodium EDTA and thiourea dioxide. Thiourea dioxide is a relatively stable reducing agent that (apparently) assists in converting rust to a more-soluble form. As can be deduced from its name, it contains sulfur. A paper by some Japanese researchers indicated that the best rust removal is obtained when the solution pH is close to neutral. Thiourea dioxide is used in the textile industry so should be readily available. An alternative to it might be sodium bisulfite. This also according to the Japanese research.
I tried this method to de-rust the rear end of my car in a large tub (didn't want to buy $600 worth of evaporust). What I found was that after soaking for a day, there was no visible difference--but I did notice I could more easily scratch rust off with my fingernail. So I decided to try taking it out and power washing it. Except for the very heaviest rust spots, the rust just washed away like dirt! It was miraculous! Hope that helps someone. Many thanks to ElementalMaker.
Thanks for posting !
Could you share the recipe on that large concoction?
I de rusted body panels on my car by using Hydrochloric Acid, and ordinary sand (as the scrubber). Wearing safety gloves, I soaked a rag with hydrochloric acid, then dipped this in dry sand, and started to scrub away. This really worked for me, and then I rinsed with plain water, because the rusting is immediate. Then treated the scrubbed surface with a Phosporic Acid. Washed this off the next day, and primed the bodywork with paint. Obviously, you must not breathe the Hydrochloric Acid Fumes, so please wear the appropriate Mask.
When I evaporust, I take the part out a few times a day and brush it.
That is what I used to do too. But, the evaporust seems to keep the part from rusting after rinsing a little better - especially things like gas tanks. Also, some items I use zinc-chromate primer, and that keeps the metal from rerusting. @@peterduxbury927
Wait, this isn’t ProjectFarm! :)
Hahaha I was thinking the se thing!!!
NO thank god!!!! lol i love that channel but the speaking or lines or whatever u call the style he delivers he lines is soo distracting n hard to listen to, it would absolutely b one of my favorite channels if it wasnt for that, i guess it just seems kinda lazy with just reading off cards with no context its messes up the flow of the video n again is distracting. hell have cards or points written on stuff he wants to cover in the video but he reads them verbatim, like "evaporust is a great product. i use evaporust any chance i get. Evaporust wont damage the metal. Evaporust also hurt your skin and evaporust is non toxic" after a few times u can just say it!!!! lol that drives me so crazy i cant even watch the videos lol i write and its just lazy writing, u need to combine your thoughts at the end and let them flow without repetition or youll bore the reader
This is FrojectParm
I wasn't the only on thinking it, lol! I don't know what it is about that thumbnail/title combo that makes it look so ProjectFarm.
Evaporust at my local Advance Auto Parts is about $28 a gallon.
I've never tried Evaporust myself, but I love trying to solve puzzle videos like this. My quick analysis is that the green color is an important clue. It's showing that there is iron in solution, but it's starved for oxygen. You can test this by taking some of the green liquid and putting a little hydrogen peroxide in it, and seeing if it flashes to brown. If it does, but then turns green again, then there is another layer of buffering. To make your version better (I know it's already cheap as is, but better is better), it needs something to deplete the oxygen in the partially-used solution. The green iron oxidation state means it is ready to steal oxygen from rust, but the new fluid is supposedly clear to yellowish, so it must start with a first layer of oxygen remover to preserve it until initial uses, and to verify its freshness upon receipt. Based on the assumption that one of the ingredients is ferrous hydroxide, which is clear, but turns green when contaminated by oxygen, but you're assuming it contains soap, and watching a video of new liquid being poured... I suspect that one of the pH/oxygen buffers is glycerine. You stated that it smelled a little like burned sugar too, and the MSDS says it's pretty much harmless to everything. I therefore suspect that the ingredients include ferrous hydroxide, from ferrous sulfate and sodium hydroxide, and glycerine, which may smell sweet in a chemical reaction, but will form a useful soap with the excess hydroxide, while helping to buffer the pH, along with something like citric acid to get the pH down enough without using an excess of glycerine.
Wow. Look at that. Lots of useful information here. Anyone try this? I need a lot for a gas tank.
methanesulfonic acid
Chelating agents like phosphonates (>5%), possibly NTMP, EDTMP and DTPMP, are mentioned in their compound list.
@@pappaflammyboi5799 That makes sense. It would occupy dissolved rust and keep it from doing much chemically. Those kind of things would be behind making the solution last over multiple uses.
Hey Buck, have a look at what I have just posted and let us know what you think. I found and downloaded a US Military spec. "Corrosion Removing Compound, Sodium Hydroxide Base; For Electrolytic Or Immersion Application" They state also "without causing material change in the dimensional characteristics of the treated article." Hydroxide conc. is pretty low.
Here's two chelants with sulfur atoms (softer electron density): dimercaprol, and succimer.
Dimercaprol and succimer both smell terrible. They might work, but your family might not be thrilled with you when you are using it.
A small nitpick: Citric acid is not a "buffer" and you are not "buffering" the solution back to neutral. It is just an acid, and you are adjusting the pH back to a neutral value using an appropriate amount of the acid. A buffer is actually something different. A buffer contains a balance of particular chemicals which work together in such a way that they _maintain and resist changes to_ a particular pH level _even when other acids or bases are added._ That is, buffers will not change their pH even if you add acids or bases to them (up to the limit of their buffering capacity). None of the stuff you are using here is actually a pH buffer in the standard chemistry sense...
Great to know, I had no idea
Neat. Thank you
He's not "adjusting the pH". This is called neutralization reaction. He's neutralizing the solution, Mr chemist.
yep and NaHCO3 is good, cheap and available every where, it keep the PH at aprox 7.5-8
@@suprememasteroftheuniverse "Adjusting the pH to a neutral value" is _literally the definition_ of what "neutralizing" means (in this context). Just because you chose to use different terms which mean exactly the same thing does not make anything I said actually wrong.
If you have any EDTA left over after you are done, remember to keep it handy in case of vampire attack. It explodes on contact with vampire blood. (source: "Blade" 1998)
The *EXACT* moment he said EDTA, I immediately thought of Wesley Snipes saying that 😄
For the last 50 years or so, I have been using a solution of approx. 15 to 1 water to molasses to remove rust ! It takes a while, (a week or two) but it is the least expensive and most effective and safest method I know of !
Interesting that EvapoRust smells sweet and you've found molasses capable of removing rust. Maybe adding a surfactant to your molasses solution would help speed it up a bit? I *think* (I could be wrong on this) that molasses also contains a bit of sulfur, too.
@@floorpizza8074Molasses create weak vinegar so nothing extra.
It destroys alloys and certain other metals. I use molasses and then after washing, dip it in phosphoric acid to give a protective coating until ready to paint.
@@lazyj4732 what destroys?
@@otofoto Molasses
Evaporust in Australia. 5 litres which is equivalent to 1.32086 US Gallons costs $A95.00
OUCH! Wow that's a steep price!
@@ElementalMaker Yeah I just bought 5 litres yesterday to experiment with, got price matched down a lot from the retail price but still absurdly marked up. The info in this video and in some of the comment chains is going to be a really useful money saver for a lot of people. I'd bet Australia isn't the only country that pays a premium.
In Australia evaporust is $100 per gallon so this helps me a lot 😁
@@AEON. - only the fancy beers... Just bought a 5 litre container for $A70, on special. $A425 for a 5kilo concentrated form that makes 30 litres (about 7.5 US gallons). Since Tetrasodium EDTA is about $25/kg, this is so much cheaper. Now to buy a small plunge pool and a crane...
Dear god, that's insane! I see a business opportunity. Start getting people to carry a couple liters in their checked luggage when they go to visit and we've got ourselves a nice little racket! Is that $100 in Australian monopoly money or American dollars?
Yeah $100 fuck that Vinegar or citric acid is cheap
Same in Canada
Always a good day when Elemental Maker uploads. Love the videos! I'm always checking the channel to see if I missed an upload
👍 Bloody expensive in UK mate. $20 for a litre. So thank you so much for making this Video. I'll never buy it again at this price.
Same in Germany. I'm making my own, too.
@ElementalMaker: I used to work in a cheese factory where we used citric acid to remove rust stains from the concrete floors. We just sprinkled granulated citric acid on the stains and got them damp with a hose. After about 5 minutes we''d hose it off and the stains would wash away. I always wondered why it seemed to pull the rust out of the concrete. It being a chelating agent makes it obvious why. Thanks for this video.
Now I can afford to soak engine blocks! Thanks!
Cook a cornstarch + vinegar goo then apply like paint
@@mamupelu565 this works?
@@Joe-bm4wx Haven't found a english-speaking video but according to this one it works: kzhead.info/sun/mZZ9ha6kbZV5pJ8/bejne.html (he said that vinegar + salt in electrolysis is much better, but it has to be in a ventilated area and the object has to be submerged)
@@mamupelu565 yeah salt gives off chlorine gas under electrolysis
Ya but I don't want to be smelling vinegar for any amount of time but ya he said in the description about$0.75 a gallon you are going to pay that for distilled water so get a container big enough and should be good
*I use this in a large bath to repurpose large rusted parts (radiators, compressors, transmissions etc etc) and have found that agitation is key to reducing the times.* If I can I simply place large totes inside my work vehicles, and the vibrations do all the work. But if the parts are too big, then I use a solar bubbler to keep the fluid moving. A "wiffle ball" is great for tumbling around and knocking into objects gently enough to work times down significantly. I just finished a car radiator and a HVAC evaporator in 3 hours. Shine like they are brand new!
Apparently it contains water, a chelating agent, and a detergent. The FAQ says that "once the chelating agent has removed the iron, a sulfur bearing organic molecule pulls the iron away from the chelator and forms a ferric sulfate complex which remains water soluble. This frees the chelating agent to remove more iron from rust." So the chelating agent isn't the one that has the sulfur atom - it's probably the detergent.
A sulphur based surfactant then.
@@bitTorrenter SLSA maybe? first thing that comes to mind from when I made soap back in the day
Perhaps the chelating agents such as the phosphonates NTMP, EDTMP and DTPMP? It is mentioned in their compounds list.
sodium petroleum sulfonate
If you’ve got plenty of time (like a week or two) a basic molasses solution (around 9 parts water to 1 part molasses iirc) works great & is very gentle. Only problem is the smell, after a while it gets mouldy & doesn’t smell nice at all, but it works a treat.
I was thinking the same. I willing to bet evapo rust contains un-sulfured molasses.
Doesn't smell nice would be the understatement of the year :-)
@@richardwindsor60 you ain’t wrong… it molds up nicely. I wonder if citric acid and edta cures that problem.
@@TheVTRainMan i bought some cheaper version of EvapoRust & that grew mould on it as well. It didn’t stink like the molasses though.
But when you're done you can just pour it out on the ground like the coca cola that I use!
I recently started cast iron restoration, Great video! Thank you!
I used to work at Evaporust, and I can tell you that it is made simply of distilled unicorn tears.
Great video. Thank you for the research and testing. I love Evaporust. I use it all the time.
This is pretty genius. And wow! The price difference is just mind blowing.!!
I put evaporust in my 1931 model A , filled the cooling system and left it for days . Some say they drive it around with it in there . It definitely gets some crud out !
Good job on trying for evaporust. On old radios what is used as well as evaporust is naval jelly. Use a tiny brush to put on the Naval jelly and it makes old rusty radio metal look new.
I've used phosphoric acid as a rust removal agent for decades. There are certain grades of steel that it attacks, including most springs. The application where I liked it best was in restoring old motorcycle and classic car gas tanks. I also had no qualms about using it on cast iron. The big challenge is that finding a surfactant to improve the wetting of the solution is not easy; acid-stable candidates can be had in the industrial chemical market, but usually you have to buy them in unrealistic quantities. (I did that in the past, and ran out of what I had about a decade back.)
Great follow-up video, glad you made this one.
I loved your video because I'm starting to restore to restore a 1996 Ford Ranger that's in pretty good shape for it's age,except for small areas on the engine compartment and mounting hardware! Your video was an answer from heaven. GREAT VIDEO I HOPE YOU KEEP MAKING MORE! Thank you.
I realize this is an older video. Thing I have to offer using vinegar is it woeks 10× better when it is hot! Not boiling, maybe coffee temp or slightly below. Changes its ability to remove rust dramatically. Not sure if the motility of the solution being hot/super warm is the key, but, works way better.
Great tip thank you!
and, afterward you can drink it. I hear it cures cancer, lol.
If evaporust finishes better maybe go with the diy mix for heavy intial removal and switch over for finishing. Then the evaporust lasts much longer.
Thanks you for creating such great content. Actually using evaporust on a post vice restore. Will keep this recipe handy for the next one. 👍
Ordered and received all ingredients and good to go! Thanks for sharing.
A comparison with oxalic acid would have been interesting, as it seems to have a good reputation for rust conversion. (Serendipity! I was _just_ looking for information on evapo-rust.) Very good, thank you.
Need to sit outside their factory and write down all the DOT labels on the trucks/rail cars going in.
Cheers for that, for years I've always used vinegar 50/50 with water for car panels that are only slightly surface rusted, never had it come back but for heavy rust I'll be making some of that solution you have come up with. 😁
Very good. I read the subtext. I wish you were a neighbor. Your equipment is similar to mine. This video was gold. Well done!
Nice! I've always wanted clones for my pennies.
Having a lot of chelating power in solution increases the effective solubility of Fe3+ ions. There is no oxidizer in solution, O2 will not be bubbling out, the oxygen in Fe2O3 (real rust is not exactly that, but that does not mater for this point) will go into solution as oxide ions (O with 2- charge) and that immediately rips off a proton from a water molecule, forming two hydroxide ions. So the solution will get more basic as you dissolve more rust. But due to the low amount of rust its probably not noticeable.
Thank you for figuring this out and validating it! If the citric acid or vinegar don't seem to be getting to all the rust, perhaps adding some dish soap to those chemicals as well. Also, I've found that putting the container of solution in an ultrasonic machine filled with water speeds up the process significantly.
Thank you for providing this video; great stuff.
Although I'm sure you're way past this experiment I just came across your video and appreciated the idea trying to replicate the evapo-rust formula. I use gallons of the stuff so I can actually personally benefit from trying to make it. Your mention of the somewhat sweet, sulfur smell in the original product made me think about possible additional ingredients which might account for that and actually balance the formula. They may actually be using either cane or beet molasses which has a relatively stable pH 5-7 or nuetral for beet molasses. And since they also promote the product as environmentally safe to handle this ingredient makes sense . What do you think?
So I have been obsessed with cloning evaporust for a while and this video pushed me to get started. I have been working and tweaking and finally came up with something that I think gets as close you can to the original formula while still being cheap and easy to get ingredients. Total cost is about $5.35/gal The rustlick has the benefit of also helping prevent flash rusting when you remove the parts from solution just like evaporust. To make ~4L (approx 1 gal) 4L liters water (ideally distilled or R/O water) 200g EDTA 4NA 200ml Rustlick B (73011) ~30 ml sulfuric acid drain cleaner to buffer to approx 7pH ******* Use eye protection, gloves, all the usual gear when working with strong acids/bases******** Dissolve water and EDTA until completely dissolved then mix in the Rustlick B Add the sulfuric acid slowly, I would suggest adding 15ml at first, take a pH reading and then add 5ml at time until you hit the mark. You can use another acid to buffer such as citric acid but the sulfur is supposed to be beneficial.
if you are still interested: the european SDS of evaporust lists "Diammonium Phosphonatbuilder" and "Natriumpetroleumsulfonat" as the additional ingredients. No clue if it's the same mixture as overseas tho. See: kunden.tda.at/pumpkin/images/news/Sicherheitsdatenblatt_Evapo-Rust.pdf
Whats wrong with citric acid instead of sulfuric acid?
@@meocats it doesn't have sulfur.. The bond to iron must be better. But I'm no chemist
@@_mylastname "Sulfonat" sounds awfully like sulfur :)
@@ChriFux Translated from German to English it says: Composition / information on ingredients - Substances / mixtures: List of ingredients according to CLP (EC) Regulation No. 1272/2008 CAS component EC no: water 70-90%, diammonium phosphonate builder 2-12 %, Sodium Petroleum Sulfonate 3-10% Diammonium phosphate is one of a series of water-soluble ammonium phosphate salts that can be produced when ammonia reacts with phosphoric acid. Sodium Petroleum Sulphonate may be used at concentrations of 10% to 22% by weight in selected industrial and metalworking applications. Sodium sulfonates have had a long history of use in metalworking fluids. It function as emulsifiers and corrosion inhibitors.
Good stuff, and great explanation! I really like how you reverse-engineered this so well! I have some phosphoric acid lying around, so I might have to test that out in a video...
White Vinegar in an ultrasonic cleaner with the heat turned up and cooked for 45 minutes to an hour. Then let sit overnight and in the morning brush off the mucky stuff. Great results.
You absolutely can etch metals at neutral pH, especially when chelating agents are involved. Look up Pourbaix diagrams to learn more about this sort of chemistry. I'm an amateur, but it looks like iron is best protected against etching between pH 9-13, before complexing species (of which chelators are an example) are involved.
Are you suggesting that more citric acid be added to get to 9pH?
@@wantmp3 Adding more citric acid would lower the pH *below* 6.5 (And in any case, evaporust is at 6.5, not in the 9-13 range.)
For small parts, I have found that a warm solution of citric acid(as shown here, approx 80-100F, if you want warmer, best to test) in an ultrasonic tank works very well, and the ultrasonic motion helps to agitate the loose particulate away from the parts. Of course, using a proper dilution is helpful. But its insanely cheap, can be dumped on the backyard garden/grass without issue, unlike heavier chemicals. Plus, citric acid is cheap cheap cheap. R/O water from the local water store, my local also offers RO/DI. With an ultrasonic, make sure to use a secondary container to hold your working solution in the tank of water. I use the same process for cleaning parts with solvents, things like small engine carbs and parts when rebuilding engines. Ultrasonic really speeds up the time, plus using a heated/warm solution vs room temperature.
It's safe for your grass, but be careful around bushes: I spend way to much on chelated iron as a safe herbicide to take out various broadleaf weeds. Seems I should have been using citric acid/edta and junk parts the whole time!
Cool, thanks. I live in Michigan and work on cars a lot so I know all about rust. I've also been amazed by the effectiveness of Evapo Rust. The price isn't terrible but it can add up if you need to buy a lot, I'll look into giving this a try next time I need to de-rust something big.
Thanks. I have been looking for a better rust remover and Evaporust looks like what I need.
I've used plenty of phosphoric, and it doesn't clean rust off surfaces - it's great at converting what rust remains after you've cleaned a part up, leaving a finish similar to the Evaporust, but it's not really any good at getting the surface rust off in the first place.
In New Zealand Evaporust is $85.00NZD for 5 liters, $54.00USD for 1.3 gallons. I found it very hard to find a company that sells EDTA to the public But I will keep trying because I am eager to try your solution (No pun intended). Thanks for the information.
Pure nature sells the Tetrasodium EDTA, price was reasonable & service was great :)
Great information. TY. If you ever repeat this experiment, I'd like to see adding your surfactant to all 4 solutions, not just the tetra sodium EDTA/citric acid solution.
It would be interesting to compare each of them with occasional agitation vs being in an ultrasonic cleaner.
I've used Evaporust for years, tried a bunch of other stuff and by far is the best. Yeah I wish it was a bit more affordable. I'm usually doing small parts and have found a soaked paper towel around the part in a zip type plastic bag with the air pressed out is a good way to economize that stuff.
Oh, no way, I though this was a project farm video when I clicked on it!
you could kinda tell it isn't because the title lacks "let's find out!" on it lol
Brilliant, thank you for sharing. I'll have to make some.
This is incredibly useful! Thanks a bunch!
Here in Aus, a gallon (actually 5 litres) costs at least $60, and most places are asking $90, so it is expensive here. I had a look at the MSDS for evaporust, and it appears to be 15-20% sodium bisulfate (metabisulfate in solution), 80% water and a small amount of a surfactant. A DIY version would be 150-200g sodium metabisulfate, 800ml water and a couple of drops of dish soap.
Did your MSDS also said something about diammonium phosphonate?
Apparently sodium bisulfate is a strong acid used as a buffering agent. If you don't have a alkaline solution already, sodium bisulfate will make your solution very acidic. Do you know of a base used on evaporust to take the acid or vice/versa?
Metabisulfate doesn't exist, you are confusing with metabisulfite, used in homebrewing. Sodium bisulfite NaHSO3 only exists in solution (Na+ HSO3- aq.), it precipitates as sodium metabisulfite Na2S2O5. But that is unrelated to this process, which used sodium bisulfate NaHSO4, which does exist as a solid. It is basically partially neutralised sulfuric acid H2SO4, and still pretty damn acidic.
Thats interesting litres here in NZ 5 litres cost me NZD 50 at $10 a litre its cheaper than any other rust converter available. Including the CRC tantic acid based converter.
I will give these old nuts a longer soak any day of the week if I can save a few bucks 👍. Solid video, rust removal is just so satisfying.
I keep a concentrated solution of citric acid on hand so I don't have to dissolve it each time I need it. Thank you for this video very helpful!
Fascinating! For an old axe or similar tool, I do 24 hours in vinegar (don’t leave it in until it eats the metal), then hit it with a wire wheel. At this point I can usually see the temper line. Then I do a day or two of electrolysis, wire wheel, then a few days in Evaporust, and final wire wheel. I don’t mind spending a few more days, if my Evaporust is a lot cheaper. 👍
There has to be some chelator simmilar to EDTA, if not it. But on top of that, it also contains a sulfur compund which reacts with iron bonded on chelator molecule. It can liberate used chelator molecule, making it reactive again. Sulfur molecule probably has to create some sort of iron complex in the reaction.
In Australia they have to make the Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) readily available to everyone. The MSDS for Evaporust indicates the active ingredient is Sodium Bi-Sulphate at 3% concentration (also known as Sodium Acid Sulphate or NaHSO4). NaHSO4 is commonly used as a pH decreaser for spas and dissolved in water would be an acidic solution, requiring buffering but perhaps Evaporust is just a mix of 3% Sodium Bi-Sulphate and a small amount of Tetra Sodium EDTA? May be worth another experiment?
Oops, I think the MSDS actually said Sodium Bisulphite (NaHSO3)
@@jimmylastname5321 How in the world is this off-topic?!? More info is good. Calm down and top trying to play gatekeeper.
According to the government, cola Coke is not chemical.
@@theaussienurseflipper.8113 Everything is made of chemicals. Coke is a food product and as such must have all the ingredients (ie. chemicals) listed on the label and in some countries it will also need an MSDS. The label indicates that Coke contains Food Acid 338 which is phosphoric acid, very definitely considered a "chemical" by the government. Phosphoric acid (and to some extent the dissolved carbon dioxide) is what gives Coke it's slightly prickly (ie. acidic) feel. Phosphoric acid is a key ingredient in a number of commercial rust converter solutions and this is why people will say that Coke can be used to remove rust but it isn't very effective because the concentration is low.
@@emilebarrett1167 it's on the label, I don't believe safety data sheet for coke.
Keylating Agent.!!!!! Wow so Cool You stated that. Best info I have found ! Thank You tons I have several projects that will be worked on now .!!!! A wrought Iron lamposost most of all.
Yes! I've been wanting a cheaper evaporust for years!
Am i the only person who just breaks off tiny little pieces of ph paper rather than using whole strips? Its quite cost effective. Also. A great rust solution is sodium sulfate, i usually have ALOT in my boiling flask from the fuming nitric acid distillation process. Its usually a big rick hard mass at the bottom that requires using water to dissolve it in order to remove it. Put it in a bucket and add in your rusty steel.. it makes hardened high carbon steel look very nice.. and if antool or blade is differentially hardened then you can see a really great contrasting demarkation between soft and hard steel. Really cool.
a little video about this process and effects won't hurt
I get 3 tests from each of my strips, I use tweezers to avoid getting it on me.
Wow you almost nailed it. Evaporust uses Tannic acid and Ca EDTA. Very cool video my friend.
How did you find what they used?
@@jackgriffiths6366 I am a chemical engineer.
Citric acid is excellent for cleaning brass items as well. I find that it works best at 2-3 Tbsp/gallon of water (3.8L) and at 140-160 degrees F,
Compliments on your efforts here bud. Thanks. I have some tools that were abused by leaving them out. I'll be trying this out.
Hi I started using molasses and water 9:1 mix after watching an Australian fellow dipping an entire car in the stuff for rust removal. the stuff really works, much slower than Evaporust and the upside🤣 if you have some molasses left over you can make some cookies. Rich
Good vid, thanks for your efforts.
Evaporust cost a fortune in the UK so your formula is much appreciated
The citric acid sounds like it might be one of the best alternatives to evaporust just because of the accessibility. You can buy citric acid everywhere, so you don't have to order it.
It also doesn't require a hazmat charge for shipping, which also helps reduce shipping costs(if you need to have it shipped).
Nice! I know I'm alte to comment but that's gone right into my Maker Tips playlist. Phosphoric acid (H3PO4) is in a lot of soft drinks to make them a bit tart, coca cola I think for one - and I've had a phosphoric acid based "rust passivator" which you use to turn the metal black and not rust again. But a bit got through my rubber glove into a fresh cut and it was DEFIINITELY acidic (ask me how I know...) and so I immediately went to wash off and look up phosphoric acid and found out it's a food ingredient so wasn't likely to end in my slow agonising death. But I'd though it was s rust remover when in fact it converts rust so the best way I found to finish was to roughly wirebrush back thick rust and then apply the H3PO4, give it time to do its thing, and then wash down afterwards. It was also good to wirebrush bare new metal, spray salt and vinegar water over it and let it rust, then hit it with H3PO4 and - black surface that didn't rust again.
Great video and info. Thank you.
We must consider the temperature in the evaluation. Vinegar can go from just sitting there like water to visible bubbling just by placing the container in the sun or other warming. Probably goes for the other rust removers as well. Also degreasing is so important, as the chems must reach the rust. And wire brushing away thick rust first saves time and the acid doesn't get used up as fast.
I was wondering the same thing about temperature. I had a piece of aluminum that I had broken a steel tap off in while trying to tap a thread. I had read that soaking it in a solution of alum would dissolve the broken tap. Nothing much seemed to happen until I heated the solution and then it worked amazingly quickly.
When I use Evaporust, I definitely heat the solution (not too hot to touch) first and will continue to reheat it often. There is a dramatic difference between room temp (70-75°F) and warm solution. Warm/hot solution works much faster. Of course, this is true for most chemical reactions.
I wonder if instead of Citric acid that they might be using methylsulfonic acid. You had mentioned a sulfur compound and methylsulfonic acid is used in the recovery of metal salts like iron oxides and zinc. Combined with a chelating agent like EDTA I think it would be pretty effective.
My teacher would have called this cookbook chemistry
Not sure if that's a compliment or not, but I love cooking anyways! Lol
Where I live I have to order Evapo rust, and the total comes out to $80 a gallon, its absolutely ridiculous, I now will try this, should save me an incredible amount, thanks!
I used ascorbic acid in an electrochemical cell with a carbon anode electrode to free up some rusted solid steel, did do a good job on the rust, but of course nothing it could do about the pitting it had gotten. Ascorbic acid as I had a bag that was a few years expired, so not classed as edible, but still good as an organic acid. Also works well to anodise aluminium parts, again with the carbon cathode. Took a few seconds to anodise aluminium nicely, and a few hours with a 12V battery and a 50W lamp in series to get the rust away. Not that I see Evaporust here, only things for rust removal are acids, and then passivate with phosphoric acid, or use rust remover gels that are acid based.
This is excellent! Evaporust is super expensive and weirdly hard to find by me.
Here in Japan, a quart of Evapo-Rust is like >$200 USD!
What might you add to the citric acid to neutralize it and prevent it from affecting the treated metal? I've got two big block heads that I need to treat due to being flooded. Nothing bad, just a little inside the ports.
I believe that Evaporust chelating agent is HEBD-CC not EDTA. It also contains TEOA. Most of the product is some kind of bark juice stabilized with sulfite. Basically bog water sold at 40$ per gallon.
Also, notice how the citric acid solution went a lot more yellowish-green instead of brown. That is due to base metal corrosion, the Fe3+ ions and the acidic environment together dissolve some Fe metal and form Fe2+ ions, which are green.
You remove a lot more iron sanding them with citric acid and I'm not seeing anybody complaining.
"Kind of interested in rust right now..." Ok, Salad Fingers.
Wtf is salad fingers?
It's early 2000s flash videos, if you like weird it's for you. Also the feeling of rust on my salad fingers is orgasmic.
@@ElementalMaker What @Nate Sargeant said.
Be glad you don't know lol
Love Salad Fingers
Good thing about phosphoric acid is that it takes very short time.In about 5- 10 min it eats the rust away,it wont eat deep rust but if you use a wire wheel and reapply it ,its very fast.When it comes with a contact with rust it starts to bubble with a white foam.If you wash it with water it wont leave it thou.I buy it in a hardware store ,its sold in a 75% solution as a rust remover.I used to use a vinegar but its not that cheaper compared to acid and its painfuly slow and you have to use a wire brush.Great thing with acid is that you can submerge the part in it or simply use a brush.Oh you can just wipe it with a rag and paint over it in no time.
Many thanks for that. Useful tip.
Neat! I know for a fact that it's not EDTA in Evapo-Rust.
A few commenters noted that the German sds actually lists the full ingredients. Unfortunately I can't obtain the main one outside of buying in metric tons from China. Big fan of your channel! Thanks for dropping a comment!
@@ElementalMaker So, what is the "main one" that you cannot buy ... ??
@@ElementalMaker Can you guys steer us in the right direction?
So what is it then?
……we all “know for a fact” you’re not going to share your “knowledge”……pity.
Could it be that if you used Sulfuric Acid (H2SO4) instead of the citric acid as the neutralizer it would work faster? That might be the source of the sulfur.
Another awesome video with great info
Excellent information - thanks.
I was happy cause cant get Evaporust where I live, but then found out I cant get Tetrasodium EDTA either. Oh well :(
Honestly, nearly every form of EDTA should work...
it is just EDTA plus sodium hydroxide. you should have lye
....EDTA is used in food industry , right ?
On the phosphoric side, I've used 5 Star Saniclean with good results. Another that's worked well for me it's 1:5 molasses: water. I'll be ordering some EDTA to try out. Thanks!
Rust 911 seemed to work better for me for my claw foot tub restoration. i started with evaporust because of HTR, but i had to figure it out on my own, of course. there's also a decent bit of potassium permanganate left in the city water around my house, so that may affect the dilution of the rust 911 compared to the other. doggone city water.
"My beautiful, rusty nuts." I've been on earth for 47 years and this is my first time hearing such a phrase.
That comment gave me a good chuckle!
It will eventually attack the underlying metal if the item is left in it for months or a year+. I had some items left in evaporust for like a year and the spring dissolved and the metal files fell apart.
Have you ever tried to clean your used solution by electrolysis to extend useful life ? Thanks for the info
Interesting chemistry, I've been wondering what makes that stuff tick. I tried a few exploratory attempts to "regenerate" used Evapo-rust out of curiosity, but all l can say is my casual electrolysis yielded no interesting results
Thanks for the share of knowledge, : )
I'm hoping this will work for me as i just bought a 3 metric ton lathe that have stood outside in a tent for a year and has gotten rusty all over. Will buy a 210L barrel of deionized water and 1Kg of T-EDTA to be able to soak some big parts in. Bookmarked this video some years ago in case i ever needed to remove rust on sensitive machine parts and hopefully that will prove to have been a genius move😅
Good luck your lathe restoration! Hope the ways are still in good shape
How is the T-EDTA working for you?
@@scottcatesWorked quite well, made a 150l batch and took a couple of samples from it and put it in smaller containers as i haven't begun dismantling the lathe yet. Put some rusty railway spikes, a piece of hot rolled round bar with some light surface rust, a piece of square tubing with heavy rust and pitting and a plasma cut piece of 1" plate that had in the dirt in the yard for 2-3 months in the sample jars and let it sit for two days at room temperature. Everything except the square tubing with the heavy rust and pitting cleaned up to essentially bare metal. Although the Ph wasn't optimal, I'm terrible at reading universal Ph-paper so i guess the Ph was between 4.5 and 7. Going to buy a digital Ph-meter with calibration liquid before i do it full scale.
This is a super helpful report. Thank you!@@OB1canblowme
@OB1canblowme any updates mate?