We've got the new books in hand so let's brainstorm what we can do with them! Bring your questions and your ideas!
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Until fully digital rules are established, this scenario will likely persist. Codex is essentially dead on arrival because the rules were probably written over a year ago.
That's only half the problem. The other half is that most of these rules are just objectively not fun. It's one thing to have rules that suck in the meta, it's another thing entirely to have rules that suck and are also just boring to play. Like the person who wrote the Null maiden detachment rule - a unit within a radius has to take a battle shock test? Who knows earth writes that rule and thinks to themselves 'yeah, people are going to love using this...' It just screams laziness - and the midget dwarf shield captain we got hammers that laziness home. Couldn't have made a Lock warden HQ, or even something unique and add to our range. We not only just got a variation of an existing SC, but the model is objectively terrible.
Really miss these Good Talk sessions! So glad to see them coming back, hopefully.
This book feels like they accidentally sent a rough draft to the printer. Like stuff is just missing compared to the Index.
Index was just OP. Easy to win and play . They weakened you guys to much but your army is a skew. It's just the nature of 40k Hard to be in the middle
Imagine buying a codex and in 3 weeks like 5-6 rules you can scratch out cuz of some FAQ
Codexis should be released at the beginning of the edition. change my mind.
Why? You right
I will one take you +1.. 10th should have been in the oven for 1 more year on top of codexes released together. Many of the codex issues/index issues are tied to mechanics that needed further dev time but pushed out for ????? See deathguard having a contiminating mechanic .. that didnt.. fit the faction See votann being balenced around a mechanic that didnt really turn on.. and when they patched it.. suddenly the faction works as intended. See admech woes.. without meaningful overall changes.. the codex has been disappointing in many aspect.. often only working.. 25 % of the time. Now codex's are being released drip feed.. and while the game is relatively balenced.. is still all over the place in terms of rule function and clarity. They could have had a "rules" editior team just dedicated to making sure rules are on the same page/function
@@KamiTenta this is also something I’d like to see done. Play testing. No one wants to pay for a game that releases small parts every quarters, but never the full thing.
Most fun 40K has ever been was 8th Index only and 10th Index only. You're 100% right, all the rules should be released right at launch
Agreed
Love how you are more happy about the dark angels art rather than our own codex.
exact same thing happened with DA alongside tau. A pretty good codex, and then one that's just zero effort right into the dumpster
Admech and Necrons. All the two codex releases are doomed to have one.
12:30 feels like the pairing idea could have benefited from a "if you target one unit with a strategem that effects *ranged* attacks the other gains the same benefits to their *melee* attacks, and vice versa. (and then whatever rewording of the strategems it would take to make it work)
codicies should be digital and free and put out at the start of the edition. GW should rely on good rules and a fun game to sell models; which CLEARLY works. You don't need to sell books guys, you can just sell the armies. Also I guess GK are the new elite army if you want a 2+ save army? Run paladins to have 2+ to hit? It's... well it's just outright better than custodes now, right? In practically every way.
We saw this world with the index release, half a dozen indexes were still bad.
@@bobshoby no, not really. Two indexes were bad, Admech and Death Guard, a couple had some issues like Grey Knights (but that was mostly points costing more than anything) and a few rules needed clarification. Overall, MOST of the indexes were reasonably well balanced between each other, with Eldar being the outlier on the "too strong" end that is most notable. After a couple balance dataslates, things were, frankly, pretty ok, though Admech still needs a rewrite imo. If they did this with codexes, or they were free for people to use, the "dissapointment" of a bad codex or update wouldn't be as major, because you wouldn't have bought the book, and updates would likely come to adjust or fix things. As is... Honestly, we don't even know if GW is going to touch Custodes again. They didn't touch Stormcast in AoS for basically a year despite their winrate tanking and being so incredibly boring, just point changes and race to the bottom ones at that.
Y'all are the best. Thank you so much for the great discussion.
Heavy weapons SoS teams would be rad. Also this feels like the dual Necron/Admech release. Glad I am a Ork player this time after being an Admech player last time
As someone who plays heavy melee army the fight first need to go it so annoying to just nearly auto lose just before game starts. BA and WE had almost no hope of fighting into custodes. BUT fight first should of be replaced with fight on death so atleast as a melee army you get to attack into custodes but their expensive units dont just die without doing anything. I personally like mortal wound protection going away as that was literally the point of mortal wounds BUT if you remove more wound protection you need to drastically tone down the amount of mortal wounds. 3rd point if they wanted to do a sister of silence detatchment they need to give them a kroot style launch. I really thought deatachments were going to be a way to solve all these tiny armies inside of army that people wanted to be supported without needing to give them an over priced codex. Scions kroot sisters of silence and harlequins could all get like 5-6 kits with 2-3 hqs and be given a detachment and be a nice middle ground of supporting them but not needing to force a whole codex. they succeed with kroot failed with SoS.
I think orks were the first book written after the edition launch or got changes as it is the first book to get their "elite" melee bully unit get a buff. We saw the marine terminator detachment be pretty bad, vangaurd vets didnt get d2, nid melee warriors actually have a points increase in the physical book, ruststalkers are still pretty weak, deathwing knights got nerfed, and now custodes got nerfed. yet orks nobs got buffs. seems to me that gw for whatever reason really were worried about elite melee units when writing 10th as a lot of them were bad even in the index release death guard, Sister of battle melee units, BA SG guard and pretty much all of the early books have had those type of units remain weak or get nerfed if they werent weak. But looks like with ork codex (hopefully) gw is willing to give more power to those types of units. as a bloody rose sister player hoping my sister melee units look more like the ork codex and less like the custodes
So they added female Custodes, but they still gave absolutely no shits for the Sisters of Silence, huh? Way to go, GW, you never surprise me.
So the people who made the tau codex the dark angle codex and the custodes needs to learn how to play the game with each of those factions.
THE FUTURE IS GREEN LADZ
Of course GW managed to fcked up one of the smallest army with a solid detachment. Hey custodes player, we have a detachment for sisters that have only 1 box, contains 3 kit.
Technically 4 kits, since it also builds the Knight-Centura
It's because you're a SKEW ARMY ! Hard to be in the middle . It's either broken or OP.
Forgot the rhino
Any way I try to look at the Custodes codex it makes no sense, if GW wanted us to buy more sisters they really missed their shots. 1.Give us some more sisters models and maybe we can then talk about the validity of a pure sisters detachment, 2. Mixing custodes with sisters is a nice idea, but they somehow botched that up as well, 3. Giving more damage to something that was already killing anything it touched makes no sense either, 4.Taking away durability from an elite army with smaller amount of units is also beyond me (Although a point can be made if the point costs is lowered and GW wants us to buy a shit ton of golden boys). I just feel like I have to wait couple of months and they release an FAQ, which hopefully makes the custodes make a bit more sense.
the only purpose of GW regarding custodes is how can they sell more sisters of silence to clients that only like tought boys.
Well they just decided to destroy any chances of expanding sisters of silence now it seems. GW is very good at making you not want to hope for anything.
they dont care about sisters, they would rather retcon female custodes in
I feel bad for Custodes players...but at the same time, I am a World Eaters player...
What happened is than literal custode did the ork codex and literal ork did the custodes ones
Okay so despite how bad one of these books was, this was a great discussion, and made me feel better about being a Custodes main. I feel like you two were able to make me laugh about how juxtaposed these books were. Thank you.
Seeing a worrying trend here where apart from the 2 very first ones (SM and Nids), and going by their release schedule order, we seem to be flip-flopping between a great Codex (supplement) and a shit one. Admech - Shit Necrons - Great Dark Angels - Shit Orks - Great Custodes - Shit T'au - correct me of wrong but the codex as far as we've seen so far is a pretty good one, right? Extrapolating from this, we are set for: CSM - Shit (sorry CSM players, looks like apart from the first 6 months this just won't be your edition. Try again in 2,5 years) GSC - Great (yay... sorry, but I do not care for this army one bit) Sisters - Shit (would continue the trend of every Imperial codex being crap) Hoping I'm wrong about this, and I probably am as I based this on the fact that I basically made it the fuck up.... BUT There does seem to be a couple patterns appearing here.
Nah, Tau is pretty bad or at best a side grade
I'm late to this party, but listening to Bridger describe his frustration with the Custodes Codex is everything I have wrong with the Grey Knights Index.
Fifth Tabletop Titans Tournament - TTTV
Only GW can make a paid book that is worse than the free rules lol.
I always said 40K has 2 team writing codex. Team A write good codex like orcs , and Team B write less powerful codex like Custodes / dark angles.
Love a Good Talk
Anyone know if FlashGitz have the Nobz keyword? It would open them up for stratagems and stop them collecting dust.
They do not. Only Nobz have the Nobz keyword.
as far as them saying "its a hard problem to solve"... id say, they could start with SMALL steps. not massive rediculous moves like this. start with one small adjustment to one main unit at a time and see what it does. 55% is really not that insane. necrons are over 55% too and they havent been touched this entire edition. what they really need to do is put some more looking into the oness that are 40% and such. THOSE are the ones really needing adjustment.
Annnnnnnd this is exactly why I won't by codex from GW anymore. LITERALLY JUST RELEASED, costs $70, almost a year out of date, and whoever wrote it obviously didn't give a shit. The part that pisses me off is GW being a multi BILLION dollar company and they can't be bothered to hire a couple more people to write these fucking books when there are so many devoted people who would leap at the chance to do it.
Despite my caution of MTG I can't help but be astonished at how well they balance tens of thousands of rules and cards between themselves and GW can't make a dang functional edition in 4 years.
Good good...let the hate flow through you -darth sidius
@@veameal9725mtg have a ton of broken combos that will win you turn 1 so they just ban and un ban carts in different formats so not that great because of course you can't change the wording
Feel exactly the same way. I'm a custodes fan boi, I have bought every codex, every book, every model. I refused to buy anything today. It's clear they couldn't care less about custodes this edition. Our model? The worst sculpt ever. A non-named Sheild captain. Just lazy. Our rules? Written by someone who clearly doesn't care about the faction at all. Just pure laziest by GW in all levels.
Yeaaaah it's pretty sad. I'm still convinced that it's not even the writers fault, but rather a systemic issue with how they release rules (likely not decided by the rules team) and the rules team being criminally understaffed (which i still find hilarious, if sad)
GW not understanding how to write rules is no news to me. @2:35
Custodes are suffering for their crimes, but damn even I (a world eaters player) feel bad
how to fix custodes: give us an army wide 3+++
You lost everything. But hey you got lady Custodes. So there’s that
Was this the trade off? Worst rules in the game so we can see women be xenophobic, theocratic fascists too?
I was holding out hope for an interesting crusade section for the custodes at least, but honestly even this has been a let down.
kzhead.info/sun/mKyrmMisgaOqq4E/bejne.html This exactly is the only thing you need to know of this Edition: If they will go down this road of simplification next step will be: "align your army and throw dice, whoevever gets more 6s will win". Kinda like we used to play with plastic green toy soldiers when we were children. This edition is what Duplo bricks are for the Lego Technic
The irony being that they somehow manage to "simplify" all the coolest rules/mechanics out of the game whilst still managing to create a game that's frustratingly complicated in all the wrong ways.
Will we get a sanguinor?
Here cometh the golden tide 🥲
As a gsc and Custodes player, this release makes me terrified for the gsc codex. We were very good at the start of the edition which is when it feels like our codex will have been written
The problem is codexes were written and ordered from the printer long before this point in time.
Flash gitz should probably be called loota Nobz at this point so that way GW would stop treating them like redheaded step children
Yeah GW codex system is so out of date.
Hi
Do not buy this Custodes Codex. It is total trash and GW should get the message
i agree and will not buy it, total rough draft
Golden girls is canon now
I love Custodes but I always get shot to pieces and lose 90% of my army in round 3. Played against a DG player and he claimed "no worries DG is F tier", sure, lost in round 3. 3 Mortars just killed every unit I had on the board, his -1t and -2 to hit was ruining my game. Imagine Custode axes hitting on 5s.
Why 5's? You've got 2+ WS at max -1, but what gave you a further 2 mod to the dice roll?
Should be on 4's, yeah. The -1 WS/BS disease and -1 to hit rolls stack auras or abilities stack. @@casparvandeursen7125
@@casparvandeursen7125 axes hit on 3s and dg can give you -2 to your hit. -1 from their aura and -1 from Typhus ability.
@vegankowalski5193 those minuses to hit only stack with a WS modifier. If its 2 minuses to hit, it maxes oit at 1
@@Tearakan No, DG can -2 to hit. 1 effect does modify your bs/ws the other gives you a -1 to your roll. It stacks. So 3 WS for axes becomes 5 WS.
ohhhhhhhh no Custodes are nerfed so sad
Think Orks got only 5 as well. Jeez GW how about we make it 6 at a minimum. Or maybe 5 for the really barebone factions if you must, but 6 for everything else. That's pretty much what they've been charging for with these books and we basically got like 9 pages of new rules
there is one dumb team that did spacewolves, dark angels, custodes, ad mech.
Also. The Necron book has massive issues both in datasheets and detachments. It's just carried rn by how overpowered ctan are and how stupendeously tanky wraiths are. Watch them get nuked next dataslate and the flaws with the book becoming more apparent. I genuinely think the only book that I'd consider good so far is the ork codex and even that has flaws (could use at least 1 more detachments for dakka orks... Or anything else. 5 detachments is anemic)
I, for one, welcome our new girlboss overlords
This Custodes codex is NOT fun. That's what it boils down to. GW needs to understand that. I'm happy for the Orc players.
Burna Boyz, Stormboyz, and Flash gitz all got their heroes sniped hard and they tried to make Lootas better, but nerfed the unit size while doing it... And also nerfed the Burnaz unit size... Does GW hate Burnaz!?
Flash Gits can still do full rerolls for 2 turns in Bully Boyz. They have the Nob keyword.
Looks like the custodes got the drukahari and admech codex writers curse, the sisters only detachment reminds me of the kastellian robot detachment. Why does GW keep pushing 1 data sheet detachments? We hate them....stop. Fundimental misunderstandings of 40k make the codex riddled with so many shortcomeings they will need to conduct surgery on entire codexes just to make them fun to play again. Love haveing interns write the rules i will play with for 3 years.
GW just needs to make Sisters of Silence their own faction (with the ability to soup into Custodes, if needed). The Horus Heresy Card Game made a stand alone Sisters of Silence faction, and they were awesome. They had their own unique style and flavor and it was great.
It wouldn't have killed GW to have given Custodes a bike based detachment and bump their stats to T7 like they should be. But no, four boring ones instead. The Ork codex at least seems fun, fluffy and viable. The Custodes is none of that.
Please dont forget to add some mummy custodes to the list 😂😂
For a company of this size, this is way below what you can expect. Its a company that has to makes games worth playing, or else ppl wouldnt buy muliple copies of any one unit. THIS issue, same for the AdMech book, could have had an easy fix - let a few outsiders read and compare both codexes before any decisions regarding printing are close to be made. The only way to send the conpany a message is to turn one's back on them. Every shit product they put out should be avoided, Imo. Dont buy Custodes until GW puts out a replacement, is my suggestion.
Might be an unpopular opinion here, but I think that if you do not know "X" faction (and the entire game of 40k) inside out and backwards, you should NOT be the one making codecies.
People feel the way they do because the Custodes Codex is bad and really boring.
personally i dont care too much. for all of 10th so far custodes stomped orks without trying. purely from their stats and fight first. orks are gonna be hilarious fun, custodes will get buffed within a week or two.
yeah we and orks vs custodes have been nothing more than bullying its so one sided its not fun for anyone
Picked up custodes a month ago... I could literally do a better job making a codex in one weekend of writing, that was balanced and way more interesting and fun than a multibillion dollar company. It's such an absolutely awful codex that its put my willingness to play the army completely on hold.
GW are terrible stewards of their own game. Outsource the rules writing already, Jesus Christ.
Tbh Custodes along with knights and Chaos Knights should be slightly under the upper hand. For a healthy meta to exist these armies need to be a tad weaker. They are so easy to collect, paint and play. A new player could go from nothing to 4-2 at a major with these armies in months. Orks, GsC and so on would take years to collect paint and master on the table.
I'm gonna be honest, Custodes should never have been a playable faction. Keeping them in the background lore would have been the smarter move. But of course, modern companies don't engage in long term thinking, cause Capitalism only rewards the immediate term. So Primarchs and Custodes it is
totally agree, they maybe could have had one super powerful unit to ally at outragious cost and durability
Yep agreed. Custodes should only be at most in Imperial Agents. For Primarchs, I think I would have released them, but I would have centered it around campaign books for the Scouring.
yeah scratch knights chaos knights harlequins ynnari etc etc etc
@@lassemelson5668 I'd certainly move knights and chaos knights to allies as well.
100% agree with Knights and Harley's.
Just wanted to add, a Unit of 20 Boyz can now, have 2 Characters attached.
i see no reason why women cant become custodes, the process to become a custodes is completely different to that of becoming an astartes, but there never has been any reference to a female custodes ever and its jarring to say they have always existed
1 - Any method of gene construction for adpetus Astartes or Custodes requires the geneseed of the Emperor IE his dna. The most compatible of course would be familiar dna to bond with. Thus the process becomes easier. 2 - The rrquirement for SMs or Custodes is a very physical taxing process that requires a high stability of pain for the subject to endure throughout the experimentation. Not saying women can't do it, but once men are more naturally adapted for this task. 3 - The process requires a sturdy and stable subject both physcially and mentally. Meaning it needs mass to grow and a stable enough environment to morph said individual into a steroidical lonster. The density muscle mass and tolerance for pain is another natural factor that plays into this when comapred to the smaller bone density less muscle to work with and form for a female body. 4 - Traditionally human society has devolved back several centuarys as stated by the lore hundreds of times. Prejudice and segregation are major issues in the lore. Which women as seem as nothing but a means to reproduce and men are meant to be sacrificed for the preservation of humanity. We don't see you fighting for this and of course the Imperuim being "yazi's" in design would of course enforce roles onto the generic labels of human beings. So it is culturally accepted, yet problematic. 5 - Stop being dumb and really think. Hopeful wishes don't fix a situation and you're fighting the wrong thing right now. 6 - Sisters of Battle and Sisters of Silence exist. Both which need updates and newer models. Hell they could make a Caladus Enclave, or assassins guild, type army composed of deadly women. All of these women are ppwerful enough to kill a Space Marine. So wtf? Why touch a custodes? It makes no sense, this did nothing for the game but upset people. SoB nor SoS upset people. Its this stupid lore that's meant to promote a damn movie idea to make money and they won't even take that funding and spend it on the hobby or the game. That's the main reason why people are upset. You just assume "bigots and sexists." Yeah....sure because that's the issue. There wasn't other ways to add in more beneficial badass women along with the rrst of the playable badass women warriors in the universe. Think.
I'm making all my Custodes buff amazon women and if you cry about it then buy my army and fix it.
Why give Sisters of Silence new models when GW can just have the female Custodes get the weapons. Id rather have that.
Custodes are not fun to play against. hopefully they will be now.
you just didnt play vs them right...tbh custodes are not a hard fight unless you are pure melee
Lol jokes on you because now you won't be versing custodians at all. I don't care what your opinion on a faction is this is not good for the game as a whole and not treatment that a faction should be given regardless of your opinion on them.
@@WhyDoIHaveToHaveAHandle_s I don't care if another space marine faction is nerfed out of the game. so no joke on me. secondly if you have ever played custodes and you shoot a unit, they make a load of 4 up invuns, you kill one guy and then they res him next turn, 3 inches closer and then advance and charge your home objective turn 2, kind of sucks. small board problems i suppose. what gets me is when eldar had a force similar to this at the start of tenth, i mean avatars, wraith knights and wraithguard, you cried the loudest you could until GW nerfed it so hard it became unusable. happy its happening to some truly boring factions now.
@@warp5p1d3r6 ever heard of screening and move blocking?
@@brookpederson738 never
Ork Codex is broken sorry.
Okay so despite how bad one of these books was, this was a great discussion, and made me feel better about being a Custodes main. I feel like you two were able to make me laugh about how juxtaposed these books were. Thank you.