i was originally gonna include bits from other episodes but there are so many thoughts in this one stream
• Thought Experiments
me: linktr.ee/zestoflemon
thanks for watching :)
i was originally gonna include bits from other episodes but there are so many thoughts in this one stream
• Thought Experiments
me: linktr.ee/zestoflemon
thanks for watching :)
I feel like there's a bell curve of 'Knowledge of Philosophy' where in the middle you get stuck pondering the complex implications of these supposedly impossible thought experiments, but people at the Min and Max Philosophy-Brain ends both identically say, "This scenario is absurd and poorly-posited, I refuse to engage with the premise and declare it silly stupid doo-doo."
It can sometimes be frustrating. Like that super long tumblr discussion where somebody uses a metaphor based on the trolley problem to criticise working from within a system to change it and somebody keeps kicking the metaphor instead of the politics.
The human constant of yesn’t
@@MyScorpion42”literally stop the trolley and untie the people” “That’s cutting the Gordian knot😠” “Stan people are literally dying”
Master debater.
It’s actually the opposite. People with no philosophy knowledge treat it as a dumb little personality quiz. People with some knowledge think it’s stupid because the limited premises and obvious biases. People with a lot of philosophy knowledge derive the underlying question being posed and are able to form a valuable discourse from it.
"You can't **prove** you didn't die last night" *long pause* "I-" It ALWAYS gets me, I love that interaction so much
I had the exact same reaction to the question 😂
"I don't have to hear your bitchin'" is my favorite thing, it just hits me with joy and amusement every time
It’s so unexpected, I wouldn’t think Julia would be the one to pull that out, plus it’s right after Karina and Jacob have already given an affable response.
It's so "grandpa or dad who is sassy and stubborn with his wife but in like an at least #1 playful way" coded
this might be just me talking from experience with bickering parentslol
I love jacobs theory about the transporter that as long as its the same molecules youre the same person becuase that means transporters dont kill you but eating food is a slow death because youre replacing the molecules youre made of one banana at a time.
A classic Ship of Theseus problem
julia googling things during streams and interrupting conversations by reading aloud from her phone every so often is my favorite bit
"The kiss is implied" me shipping any couple
True!
As a sapphic who mostly ships sapphic couples, this is unfortunately nearly always the case it's rough
i don't think it's healthy for the drawfee crew to think thoughts but dammit if i don't love it when they do
drawfee can have a little thought, as a treat
If Jimin got struck by lightning and disintegrated and at the same time lightning struck a swamp and formed a perfect copy of Jimin from the particles in it, would your bias still be Jimin or would you change it to Swamp-Jimin?
Trick question, a lightning strike would just make Jimin stronger
Trick question, you can't make a perfect copy of Jimin because the original Jimin was already perfect.
@@FleursetRebellion trick question, the lightning strike would make another Jimin alongside the original Jimin. This happens every time lightning strikes the earth. That’s what the BTS army is, just a horde of Jimins led by Jimin Prime.
@@C.V317trick question, the lightning strike would lead the Jimins into having an existential crisis about who the real Jimin is and who should really be Prime Jimin, leading to the great Jimin massacre where we no longer have any more Jimins as a result.
@@small_and_dangerous2068 trick question, the winner of the Jimin War will be named the Jimin Prime of this universe and will receive an invitation from a victorious Jimin from another universe to join the League of Extraordinary Jimin to tackle threats throughout the Jimin-verse, such as an imperialist alternate earth ruled by Sonamoo.
i will say right off the bat that they don't use the transporter in every episode, so he definitely doesnt die in _every_ episode by that metric either
Kirk actually does die in every episode of Star Trek and he gets revived by dark rituals it just happens offscreen. They just don't show it
I think he should've been revived by normal rituals, personally
Related to this, we need a compliation of them reading unhinged shit from their phones. No context, just whatever absolute nonsense Karina or Julia or Jacob pull up. (This can also include the infamous "how to pee" bit from SSS.)
I need to hear more about this "how to pee" bit.
@@alanfish91It's when they played Landlord Super.
move aside gorgug, the greatest wizards of this time are called drawfee
Move aside, Fungalore
@@emmaconder7854 he heard your wish
Wizards of Drowfey
Hell yeah lmao
always love it when julia drags the drawfee crew down into one of her google search rabbit holes
trembling at these scholars
im taking a critical thinking class this semester and every week one of our homework assignments involves responding to a thought experiment, and the very first one we got was the pleasure machine lolol i was like oh hell yeah ive already thought about this a bunch with my blorbos
I feel like everyone is glossing over the fact that the pleasure machine thought experiment starts by saying... super neuroscientists? Wtf is a _super_ neuroscientist????
See when a neuroscientist gets bitten by a radioactive neuroscientist....
the difference is simply presentation (Megamind 2010)
Neuroscientists co-owned by DC and Marvel
Transporter doesn't transport your actual molecules, just instructions on how to reassemble another set of molecules; however I still argue that it is fundamentally different than Swamp Man because the transporter is deliberate while the lightning that creates Swamp Man is explicitly random chance.
Here's a thought experiment: would Trekkies be more upset with Drawfee conflating Star Wars and two different Star Trek series, or with Drawfee improperly explaining how the transporter works? Also, how much more time would they spend explaining the transporter than they would the differences between the two series of Star Trek?
as a trekkie im just happy to hear anyone talk about star trek
As a kind of Trekkie I’m most upset that none of them have seen discovery and can’t reference Saru when talking about Kirk’s crazy walk
I’m so glad a member of chat mentioned that second riker comes back later as a terrorist
We must bring this to the Stargate fandom. They will find the middle.
@@tylerc5021 Stargate fan here. I would argue that the transporter does kill you because it disassembles your molecules and only transmits the instructions for a new you, not the actual molecules, so you die and are rebuilt. Whereas the stargate disassembles your molecules and transports them before reassembling you, so it doesn't kill you.
Technically Riker's clone is a shiny as his only difference from the original Riker is he has sideburns and clone Riker doesn't. It makes for a funny reveal in a DS9 episode were the clone pretends to be Riker and removes fake sideburns when he drops the act and it's played as a massive reveal
the photoshops of william shatner onto starwars characters was amazing! xD
“Mom let you have *two* thoughts?” - Karina Drawfee
everytime julia says anything my audio fucks up and she turns into an .exe file and infects my computer with a virus
I love when they burst out laughing at the first basic premise of all of these. what if a guy got disintegrated by lightning.
i would feel more guilty if a kid drowned bc i had to go past them to save my child
Captain Kirk does not die in every Star Trek episode because they don’t use the transporter in every episode. Sometimes they just stay on the ship
Transport Clone Riker shows up later in an episode of Deep Space 9 in what has to be the best reveal in all of TV history. Hes pretending to be normal riker and when he takes control of the ship hes stealing he pulls off fake "side beards" to reval that his full beard was actually a goatee.
If a bolt of lightning struck Mallow from SMRPG and simultaneously struck a marsh would he be
You know what happens when a Mallow gets struck by lightning? The same thing that happens to everything else!
...OH WAIT.
being rational is a decoy i think cause there is no “rational” decision to be made if the options are exactly the same. it’s the free will that’s the problem cause even if one hay bail was more “rational” to choose, the donkey couldn’t act on it. so it would do nothing and starve right?
Unless it gets struck by lightning and Swamp Donkey is formed.
But swamp donkey is identical in every way, including lack of free will, therefore it will starve
It's stupid and I don't like it. The donkey either guesstimates the distance between itself and the food, or the donkey has quantom level information of its surroundings and Yes, there is absolutely no difference in distance to the atomic level. So either the donkey is choosing to believe both are the same distance(so it has free will) or the donkey should know that eventually the breeze or it's own anatomy will shorten/lengthen the distance between one or 2 of the choices and logically move to the according food source
It's entirely irrational to starve when there are two sources of food right near it. It would have to choose one, because not choosing is the most irrational choice of all. I suppose choosing on a whim could be considered free will, and I don't have an answer for that lol but I'd imagine a purely rational being would like. Not starve? If it had the opportunity to?
I have two exactly the same choices of food, but rationality doesn't allow me to make anything but the most rarional thing. Therefore, I must starve, as making a random choice is irrational. Send my children my good byes, for here I shall stay. May they also find their rational tomb as I did.
They were so real for this
It seems like this is only a question because the first version is destroyed. If lightning struck a marsh and created an identical man, but the first man was not disintegrated, the swamp man is obviously not the first man. So why would the destruction of the first man change that status?
For the second that swamp man is created, that is the same man. But if both are alive they are now constantly experiencing different lives and because of that different people (like twins) but if original man does die while swamp man isn't him he is similar to what we would consider as an alternative universe verson of original man
Karina saying that milk doesnt quench ones thirst???
It really doesn't to me... Like it marginally fills me up like how food does but I would still feel thirsty
Just reading the title immediately made think "Drawfee? They shouldn't be allowed to have thoughts, that just doesn't seem right" 😭😭😭
i'm not a podcast person, my brain just doesn't work that way, but this is a podcast i'd listen to
I love how their entire approach to any thought experiment is simply "no" without any further consideration
Man, Karina is too powerful for this.
Easily one of my favorite Drawfee streams ever.
WOW !! what high quality youtube content. whoever made this must be like 6'7'' or something. so cool.
The old suitcase full of mud really got me lol
19:12 i actually have thoughts on this one: no I would not, and no you should not. the people of Equim clearly have a different culture and cultural priorities than we do, and it is in no way up to me, or anyone else from Earth for that matter, to dictate their values or behaviour. Any sort of shift in cultural values should come as a result of the desires of the people within that culture, without coercion or manipulation from outsiders. However, if simple exposure to the people of Earth, or for us, exposure to the people of Equim, causes either group to reexamine their values/priorities, then that is totally fine. Learning from others and broadening your horizons is a good thing. But with a pill? that's some unethical ass shit right there.
When you havent heard one of the thought experiments and you have a crisis while laughing. Its the Equim one.
"If I go over there, he wins."
I love that you can zoom in on videos now so I can zoom in as close as possible to each of their faces and see the pixels in full detail
I appreciate you ending the vid with cat
This reminded me I have Oreos and milk.
I love when Drawfee has thoughts and also Karina is there
truly the philosophers of all time
Ok the swamp man hypothetical is actually JUST Swamp Thing’s origin basically.
Justified True Belief theory? In my Drawfee?? It’s more likely than you think
2:37 - that movie still!! WHEEEEZE, i was not ready to be reminded of that! T_T You made banger kirk-in-star-wars edits for this bit, hats off!
I freaking hate the Big Bang Theory-ass "does the transporter kill you" debate, but I think Jacob's misunderstanding of how it works actually resolved the question for me The transporter is a matter-to-energy device. It breaks down the atoms of your body into energy and then uses that energy to reconstruct you somewhere else. It doesn't send the exact same atoms elsewhere - we know this, because if it did, it couldn't duplicate people. I would argue that, when it functions properly, it kind of _does_ send you and your component atoms somewhere else though It's converting you to energy and then using that energy to reassemble you somewhere else, right? So in theory, there isn't any new material entering the system like the swamp man argument. The material that makes up the transporter target is just going through a state change (matter to energy) and then that change gets reversed - the energy gets turned back into the matter it used to be - and the target gets reassembled somewhere else. If you had a block of ice, melted it, and then refroze that water in the same mold, I don't know if it'd make sense to say it's a "different" block of ice when it's made out of the exact same molecules
That is a different block of ice. Look at the ice it's clearly different.
Star Trek does a long song and dance to explain how traasnporters don't kill you but they're just assuming that consciousness exists as some magical part of your physical body that magically gets transported with it while it's dismantled and turned into energy. . .
The thought experiments stream is my all-time favorite Drawfee
I'm only glad I can think because ut means I can follow these wonderful experiments
12:00 it’s just a vibrator and a gun 💀💀
Since horses (and probably a lot of animals) are either left or right "handed" I assume the donkey would pick a hay bale based on that
the issue of transporters makes much more sense if you know more about it 😭 iirc how (theoritical proposed) transporters work is they don't actually move the molecules of your body, they force a bunch of random other molecules to become identical to your molecules, and in the process destroy all your current molecules. its got a similar idea to it as the memes of "when you observe quantum particles they cease to exist" - by measuring your molecules, you have to destroy them edit: screaming JACOB NOO at my screen rn
I gotta watch this stream
i have to take a break from the pleasure machine and pop in the bad machine every week or so for the pleasure machine to stay pleasurable (the pleasure machine is taking vyvanse)
my bias is joycat
Hey uh... if anybody knows where to get the shirt karina is wearing, I'd love to know :3
20:05 I already do this when I'm watching a sport I like
Karina's t-shirt makes me chortle
If it were my cow? No.
Karina is extra murderous in this.
6:53 Karina would make a great ventriloquist
When did drawfee start having thoughts? I've never seen that happen
3:19 see you later Midnight Gospel cowboy 3:49 “no free will and always acts in the most (ir)rational way?” This is why u don’t discuss animal awareness with people who think that because animals are amoral they somehow don’t have free will. That’s. That’s sapience. And humans have a very biased understanding of what we consider sapience. I hope the person who pitched a question phrased that way, and the person who wrote “why does the boy help the mouse,” 5:13😂 6:02 Karina puts her whole hand on the neoliberal stovetop, 6:17 Julia explains one of the bluntest reasons for collectivist support and she’s not technically wrong 6:37 and comrade jacob contributes to the water cycling of his friends 7:24 hypothetical: what if you were struck by lightning and were reconstructed as Shrek miles away in a swamp with a perfect copy of you with all your thoughts and memories is that you or a clone of you 8:57 NO ITS NOT THE EXACT SAME MOLECULES but it literally *_doesn’t matter_* because *_ALL MOLECULES ARE THE SAME OG MOLECULES_* god ain’t that the shit 💖 11:21 Pleasure Eurable’s Experiences (honking) 12:08 bad and naughty antihumanists go into the pleasure eurbal machine while normal not fascist people can just like burn with emotion and poke each other in the face and be cool with a natural death 🤗 14:24 I don’t know how to explain why but this feels like a House of Leaves 15:18 fuck it up farmer Ted🥲 16:06 an old suitcase full of mud “Equim” question guy is a person I would force to comprehend Kyuubey (it’s not just the Bible, it’s the neoliberal Bible which is so much weirder it’s like if you explained how most people feel a general collective empathy and then are taught to unlearn it to the guy asking the question and he just looked at you like the ICJ and said “well you see but no and assume I am inherently already correct actually” the thought experiment is flawed at its foundation because the question it’s asking is being asked in a way where it can’t mean anything- 22:00 this is just both aspects of Christ again