Compromising to get sharpest images possible from the Canon R7
2023 ж. 25 Ақп.
48 734 Рет қаралды
We talk through the shutter options on the Canon R7 and the sacrifices ones makes to get the sharpest shots possible while not spending a fortune. The R7 is a very sharp camera but it takes some counterintuitive choices.
Very clearly and succinctly put. The hardest part here in the UK is only getting about two days in the winter when you can get 1/1000th sec shutter and less than 3200 ISO if you only have f6.3-f7.1 glass!
This has to be one of the best no-nonsense down-to-earth videos on the R7 that I've watched. Thank you for the pointers!
Thanks so much!
Great advice! Thank you Matthew.
First time I used the R7 in mechanical shutter I scared off every bird within 500 feet. Switched to electronic shutter and never used mechanical again. I use 15 fps and it’s plenty for my use.
Thanks for the video! I'm having problems with the R7 + 100-400 RF combo and sharpness (shooting with a mechanic). Today I was surprised how by putting the electronic shutter I have achieved greater sharpness. Thanks again!
Wonderful! Thanks for sharing and so happy I could help.
Thanks ks Matthew for the advice and I will try out the electronic shutter, as I have notice the mechanical is rather harsh. Nothing like the 7Dii which IMO has a nice sound to the shutter !
Images talk and your great images speak volumes for what you are recommending. Will have to try it and see what happens. Thanks for a great 'shocking' video!
Great video. I was having the same shutter shock with my R7 and mechanical shutter and now am using electronic shutter all the time. Thanks.
Wonderful! So glad this was helpful!
Great and serious information. Thank You for sharing.
Absolutely. Thanks for watching
I agree with all you’ve said, once I cranked up the shutter speed and used HS+ 30 fps, I found I was getting several really sharp images in a burst. I have the shutter sound on quietly to give me some positive feedback of how many I’m taking and allow the iso to go where it goes. I process in DXO Photolab and use the highest level of noise reduction available on anything from about ISO 1600. I also invested on a MacBook Pro for processing as my old PC ground to a halt with these files and the best processing software. I’d love them to bring out something like the R6 with this sensor in it, having all the controls and better mechanical shutter of the R6. But, as you say, compromises and amazing things are possible with this camera.
Agree. I use electronic for wildlife that is not moving too much and electronic first for anything moving and requiring me to move the camera in anyway.
Really great way to compare mech/EFC/E is to shoot the Moon. I was blown away at how sharp electronic is with the lunar surface. I always had problems with my 90d with its mech shutter with the shock.
Excellent idea!
Thanks for the video, I’ve been shooting on 1st curtain for the last 6 months with a 500 f/4 and have been happy with the results however I will be giving electronic a try now. Subscribed!
Will be interesting to see if you see a difference! I think you might, but beware that you might end up with fewer keepers albeit the ones you get will be sharper. Thanks for subscribing!
Wow! I never thought about disabling mechanical shutter because I always thought "surely it won't make much of a difference". After this video, I put it to test with my 100-400, a paper with some text on the wall and using a tripod. I can DEFINITELY tell the mechanical shutter photo apart. It is truly horrible. Thank you for your video, I was getting a bit frustrated with my photos! Will put this to practice this weekend.
I'm so glad it was helpful! Best of luck to you!
Thanks for your insight Matthew. Shutter Shock! I thought it was my fault as I shake quite a bit:) My sharpest shots have been in Electronic shutter also.I haven't used it much lately but I'm switching back to it right away.
That's good to hear! When I mount on a tripod, the difference is really striking. Good luck with giving it a go!
Thanks for sharing 👍🏼
Superb explanation and thoughts - so true! Liked and subscribed!
I totally agree. Especially when you do a 10-15 frame in camera focus stack, the final result is always as sharp as a tack. I know its a focus stack but the result is what your after. It use electronic shutter at 30 fps.
Thanks for your comment and sharing your experience too
Hello! You are absolutely right - my main problem with R7 - I need to go through 5k shots each couple days with 30 FPS of R7... LOT of time!
Great insight- I use electronic at 15fps to maintain decent buffer. I also use the 300 2.8 which is a match made in heaven.
Isn’t it? I love that combo. Thanks for the comment.
Same here man ... i got 1dx too , so my R7 is great for small birds, 1dx for bigger.
Subscribed. Keep up the great content and you will grow!
Thanks so much! Appreciate the support
I love my R7. I'm at a medium level, but it's good enough to grow in for beginners and it's also a great backup for more experienced users. The downside is that the lenses can be expensive. There are some rumors that Sigma might release a 17-50 or 18-55 f2.8. Between the R10 and R7 I choose R7 to get a better hybrid for video shooting as well.After all, a camera is a tool for shooting pictures. It's the person handling it that can make or break the photos.
That lens is on my next purchase list. Looks fantastic!
It’s outstanding
Thanks, mate! I was getting a little bummed about this, wondering why my old Nikon D500 takes sharper shots... this video explains a lot!
Yes, it explains why this camera was not fit for release!
Thanks for covering this neglected issue. I was horrified when I first noticed the difference between mechanical vs electronic shutters in terms of blur from shutter shock, but I find the electronic first curtain shutter also has less shutter shock as long as I am not shooting at 30 fps. And to be honest, I don't like sorting all those images 😊
It´s insane how sharp the pictures are, when switching to electronic shutter. I found your video just recently and tried it out. (I didnt use electronic shutter before, because of the rolling shutter issue). Took some pictures of the moon with the 100-400 f8 and the difference was mindblowing. Especially with high contrast subjects, like the moon, it´s very obvious how much sharper it gets. BTW there is another issue with focusing while in H+ mode. 30fps may sometimes be too much for the R7 to focus properly.
I’m so happy it was helpful. That’s wonderful feedback.
I really enjoyed watching this video, very interesting as you don’t find much information on this topic.
Thanks for watching and for the comments!
Excellent video. We agree on basically everything except I usually shoot 15 fps middle speed or even the low speed sometimes and I like to keep my shutter speeds very low. But, I don't have a 300 2.8 so that might help you understand that choice. Good job!
Thank you! I'm a big fan of your account and just realized I am not subscribed, despite seeing your videos in my feed all the time. I'm going to try to do more testing on this with some direct comparisons for more evidence. Thanks for the comment!
I had no idea ISO affected dynamic range. I used it to get sharper shots on slower zooms to get rid of camera shake, but sometimes, I choose the shot that has a little shake, is not as sharp, because the colours look so much better and it has an overall clarity and contrast that is pleasing. Denoise cannot do anything about that. I wondered why that was. I also didn't know about mechanical shutter causing blur
Yeah absolutely. And the rolling shutter causes more blurry shots than I’d like to see especially from camera movements. It’s a frustrating choice of shutter options.
I really would like to see side by side comparison
Thank you very much...I thought my camera only had issues. I'll try your recommendation, because I am a sharpness fanatic as you. I sent already one Canon R7 back, because H+ on mechanical and 1st curtain were giving me less shots per second, than the normal high speed (H), but now I have more issues with fine detail and sharpness, and the speed issues stays. Thanks!
I am starting to wonder if there are issues with production rather than issues with the design choices. That said, I don’t have any evidence one way or the other.
I found the same results ref shutter shock with the mechanical shutter, but the rolling shutter kills me on panning shots (I shoot fast RC planes low with a lot of background). For still subjects the electronic works great, but for my panning plane photos, I've been using the electronic first curtain and it seems to be a good compromise. I'll admit, for my shooting, the R7 is also the most intuitive body I've used. Thanks for the video!
Thanks for your comment. That makes a lot of sense. The rolling shutter is severe and for a subject like that it must be tough! Glad you found a good setting
Awesome video, many thanks! After some contemplating, I bought EOS M6 Mark II out of spite for Canon, as I sold all my previous gear. Tried to compare the output to my new phone. After looking at Canon Images, I was like "WTH"?!!! A blurry mess not worthy of the new 32Mpx sensor. Then got this idea to shoot only electronic shutter. That did it. Superior detail that killed anything that the phone was doing and any comparison that it thought it could hold up to. And now the universe sent me you to confirm that. 😂
Haha, I'm glad I could provide confirmation for your own findings and great that you're getting the shots you want out of the M6ii. I feel your pain and it's so rewarding to get the most out of your kit. Thanks for the note!
Interesting. Worth trying a different approach. Thanks
Absolutely. Hope it’s helpful
Another great video. Your review of the shimoda explorer v2 was the video that got me to pull the trigger on it. So many vids and yours sold me. I’m so stoked on that bag. Thank you! So I’ve been dabbling in wildlife photography for the last few months and I’m hooked. Pryer to that I was mainly shooting concerts and backstage stuff. I own an r6 mk1 and love it for that application. I’m kind of struggling with wildlife and not being able to get close enough on that camera. (Rf100-500). I’ve been waiting for the r5 mk2 to come out to possibly buy that or get an mk1 at a discount. I guess my question would be… if you had an r6 mk1 and wanted more megapixels for cropping would you buy the r7 or r5? I feel the r5 would be more versatile but then the r 7 would have more megapixels one the subject from far away. No one wants to spend $4000 on a camera but I am willing to sacrifice that for a hobby that brings me so much joy. I just don’t want to spend that money blindly when a $1500 camera might scratch that itch. Any opinions? Again great content. I love your thought process on gear and photography. You get stuck in the KZhead rabbit with so many KZheadrs that get free stuff or paid and its sometimes hard to differentiate between the honest people and the ones that care more about KZhead being a job.
Thank you for the comment and really appreciate the kind words. Connecting with folks makes it worthwhile to keep producing this videos! Still love my shimoda! So you’ve really hit a challenging issue that I also appreciate with the current canon lineup. I agree with your analysis about the choice in front of you. One question is: do you have the rf 1.4x TC yet? If not, you might consider purchasing one of those used because it’ll only be a $300 to $400 outlay and it will get you more reach from the 100-500. I have one and it performs very well on the 100-500. And you’ll be able to use it in the future. I am also waiting on the r5ii and hope it’s a 60 mp with 25-30mp crop. In effect, giving us the best of both worlds: crop sensor when needed with top notch AF and a better shutter. But who knows what we’ll get with the r5ii and when it will come. I think you can get extraordinary shots with the r7 and it does fit your need. The r7 mk ii in a few years will probably fill the gap perfectly. In the meantime, I think I would probably go with a used r5 body for under $3k if you can find one. It’s more reliable to use in crop mode than the r7 is in general, and it has a great ES for the high mp resolution. It’s a great camera and pieces have come down a lot. I’ve thought about getting the r5 again but decided to wait until the r5ii comes out and keep working with the r7.
@@MatthewRaifman thank you for your response. You’re probably right about the 1.4 tc. That should tied me over till the rumored r5 mk2 and can make a decision after the real specs are released. Either way I can wait till then. The next camera I buy I want to last for at least 5 years before I start getting fomo. Again thank you and keep up the great work.
If you can get an RF TC, there is almost no loss in IQ with the TC, especially with the R6. I used the R6 and 100-500 with a 1.4. Canon makes the best TCs imo and you will be happy with that. Watch simon dentremont’s latest video about MP for prints. I think a TC would be more economical and produce great results
@@Jessehermansonphotography thank you for the reply. I appreciate it.
Well I tested it myself. The mechanical shutter has sharp areas and soft areas. Just as you said it would. I put the camera on a tripod and shot pics of a wooden fence with a RF 70-200mm 2.8 lens. 1st curtain shutter is better than mechanical, but electronic looked the best. I may test 1st curtain against electronic again.
Yes, that's exactly my experience. And within EFCS, the first image is sharper than the sequence if you do a series of shots. Given the interest, I might do a video just on this with examples, testing IS and shutter options. Thanks for the comment
@@MatthewRaifman That's a great idea. I am curious on how it might affect BIF or sport photos.
@@MatthewRaifman I have exactly the same experience with EFCS, where the first shot in a burst is always the sharpest in the sequence.
@@samwang5831 Sorry about the delay getting back to you. It's a trade off with no clear answer, I'm afraid. With BIF and sport, if you are panning and tracking a subject, you WILL get a number of shots with rolling shutter. It's unavoidable with the slow sensor readout speed. The shots that you nail will be the sharpest possible. I think it's better to shoot mechanical or EFCS if doing BIF or sport just because you are probably in a situation with those cases where you want to capture specific moments. It's better to have a slightly blurry image with mechanical than to have a shot that is unusable due to rolling shutter artifacts (angled lines in background etc).
@@MatthewRaifman Thanks for taking the time to reply, it is certainly a good advice for those who are used to the faster silent shutter. I have read somewhere that the readout speed of the R7 is among the worst in class, so one should set it to mechanical or EFCS for BIF/sports to avoid weird images😀
How is the 32.5mp sensor of the R7 a full frame equivalent of 80mp, how does one calculation this? Great video btw., thanks for that 🙏🏻
We are on almost the exact same page :) I also have owned and shot with the R5 for one year. Great camera. I rented, then bought the R7 a month ago. That shutter sounds like your slapping a heavy spatula on an aluminum cookie sheet ! :O And I confer, horrible shutter shock ! I will NEVER use my R7 in MS mode. But wow, in ES mode, it works so well for me, I'm having a hard time wondering when I will ever use my R5 again ? I know some things that the R5 will be better at, I just hardly shoot that kind of stuff anymore. Hmmmm. The R7 with the RF 800 F11 though, is a dream, for the small birds I usually chase. Yes, great light helps, but even in lower light, decent shots can be taken with good technique, and a solid tripod :) Lets face it, as photographers, EVEN WITH super expensive gear, we still want the best light we can get, right ? Couple notes: I prefer 15fps not only because it keeps my number of shots to cull quite a bit lower, but also, because it gives me so many more shots before filling the relatively small buffer of the R7. I might occasionally go to 30fps with some super fast, twitchy little subjects, like Kinglets :) Those little guys are on crack rock :) lol Excellent video. I just subscribed :)
Thanks for subscribing! I had the 800 briefly but went with the rf 1.4x TC in the 100-500 for versatility. It’s similar but not quite the same reach. And way more expensive! But same idea!
@@MatthewRaifman I know that 100-500 is a great lens, but the one I rented likely had some issues.... Which in Retrospect, probably saved me $2900 😀 lol
Update; after buying the R7, and almost never using my R5 anymore, I sold the R5 and bought a second R7 for a backup + the 100-400 + paid my rent 🙂👍 As I mentioned in my initial response, I "always" use a tripod. Because of this, I rarely experience any rolling shutter. I also shoot as slow as 1/60th in very low light, and still get clean, sharp shots 👍 LOVE my R7's 🙂
@@Chris_Wolfgram hey! How about that! That’s a really interesting data point. Assuming I would be in the same boat, it would suggest the majority of rolling shutter was occurring due to camera shake and not subject movement. Interesting finding! I’m stubborn and don’t want to use a tripod. :-)
Matt, Appreciate your honesty with this. I’ve been holding off getting the R7 due to this and a few other issues. Will wait and see whether Sony or Nikon come out with a serious apsc alternative.
Absolutely, thanks for the comment. Yeah, it is a flawed camera and there's no question about that. On the other hand, if you know about those flaws and work around them, you can still get amazing shots. I suspect the Sony crops with the 200-600 or tamron 100-500 will perform very well in the field even now, though I haven't used them myself. Again, those cameras also have issues, particularly the form factor and ergonomics when using a big lens. I'm sure we'll have more options in the future regardless!
@@MatthewRaifman Matt, By any chance have you tried Canon's R10 with the RF100-500? Even though it has a smaller buffer, I wonder if it might have less shutter shock? And I wonder with the R10's lower 24mp sensor, might it not be as adversely affected as the 32mp R7. Any thoughts on that? Thanks, Craig
@@craigcarlson4022 I haven't tried the R10 yet so not sure I can be very helpful. I had a look on KZhead just now to see if I could find a side by side comparison of the R7 and R10 where they showed the shutter sounds because I think we might be able to infer from that if they use the same shutter in both cameras...but I couldn't find an example. Theoretically, I think there are two reasons why the lower resolution R10 would perform better than the R7 for shutter performance but both relate to rolling shutter with ES mode. 1) lower resolution sensor means less information to read through so the readout speed should be faster all things equal and 2) lower resolution is more forgiving so the same level of rolling shutter might look slightly better at lower resolution. But, I don't know if it's good enough to make ES usable. I WAS intrigued by the R8 though because it uses the same R6ii sensor that can be used in ES mode without much noticeable rolling shutter and lack of IBIS isn't a big deal for wildlife photography. But of course, the R8 doesn't have the crop sensor field of view so it's a different animal.
@@MatthewRaifmancould the IBIS be a contributing factor to the sensor's reaction to the shutter shock when comparing R10 to R7? I presume the sensor is sitting on a more flexible support, even if IBIS is off.
Your channel is underrated.
Thank you!
Good vid!!! .. I am a N.E. amateur W.L. photog too glad I found you. I have the R5 (20 fps) and the R6 ii (40 fps). I assume the same would hold true about using the electronic shutter. I am trying to understand the 80 MP full frame equivalent of the R7 and where you feel the ISO cut off is.
Hey! Wonderful cameras! So it depends actually. Generally, you don’t need to worry about it and should just shoot ES without any concern because both of those cameras and the R6ii in particular have very minimal rolling shutter. You should have way more keepers in ES than one would have with the R7. In addition, the shutter on both cameras is less severe so I would expect your shots in mechanical to also be closer to electronic shutter. I would probably shoot electronic shutter because it is quiet but you should be ok in mechanical. One final consideration: the bit dept of ES files is 12 bit vs 14 bit mechanical. Theoretically, this means you might have better color rendition in mechanical shutter mode but I personally I’ve never noticed that between the R7 and R5. I haven’t been able to confirm that there is a bit depth difference for the R6ii. I didn’t quite understand the second question. Can you clarify what you mean by ISO cut off?
@@MatthewRaifman well I'm sort of interested in an R7 as a third body being the nut that I am.. because the crop sensor with my big prime would be kind of a cool combination. I like to shoot early in the morning and late in the afternoon and I was just wondering how tolerant of higher ISO 6400 as a an example (I use DXO). The R6 and the R5, The R6 in particular do okay. I have nice clean shots with the R6 at 20,000 ISO. believe it or not 😵💫
@@DanBetty Ah gotcha! I was surprised with how well the R7 files (even compressed RAW) are processed by DxO and I shoot up to 12800 on the R7. I rarely go that high when shooting the ef 300 mm f/2.8, but it's there if I need it and I don't hesitate. The files are not quite as durable with regard to dynamic range as the R5/R6 files but it works. I wouldn't hesitate if that is the issue.
Done considerable testing with the various shutter modes. While Mechanical shutter has noticeable shutter shock (and Canon mentions this in the manual) I do not see any noticeable difference between Elec. Ist curtain and Electronic shutter. Not sure why you are experiencing this. What is noticeable is the decreased Dynamic range and color depth in Electronic shutter. I would have no problem recommending Elec. 1st curtain as the desired shutter mode for the R7. Also would recommend using H rather than H+, as it has been pretty well documented that the slow readout speed of the R7's sensor makes AF at H+ a bit of a challenge.
Have you tested the EFCS with H? I see issues when using it with higher drive speeds which also makes sense given physics of the shutter mechanism for more than one exposure with EFCS.
Great video and YT recommended me to it. Iv not noticed any difference yet in sharpness or non obvious rolling of some warping somewhere on my R7 but the camera is stellar. Now I’m over the fact it’s not the 7Dii replacement (where is the body grip..) I’m happy with it. The AF is simply amazing
Yes, agreed. The AF is absolutely incredible and the sensor delivers really beautiful images. I agree with you, it's not a 7Dii replacement and that's ok! Glad you're getting good results!
Interesting. I’ve never heard this but will look at my R7 mech shutter shots more closely. I also have an R5. I have shot side by side tests with both on tripod to determine which is sharpest, because I want to sell one or the other. When you crop in on the R5 image to an equivalent R7 framing in post, i cant tell, and both were shot mechanical. I only know my a7Rii is sharper than both.
I’m keen to hear your results. I think the shutter impact is most visible with EFCS because you’ll see the first shot of a series (electronic only) is sharper than the following shots (rear shutter curtain). I recently used the Sony A7RV with an ef 300 f/2.8 lens and I cannot get out of my head how much sharper the files were. I attribute that to the lack of an AA filter, but it does have me pondering if sony is a preferable system these days especially with lens availability. The problem I have is that there is limited supply of telephoto lenses for wide aperture wildlife photography on Sony. You can either spend a fortune on the 600 f4 or 400 f2.8. The 200-600G is great by all accounts, but it would be a substitute for my rf100-500 not the 300f/2.8 on the R7.
@@MatthewRaifman Sony 300/2.8 is currently in development and will hopefully be available very soon.
Hi Matthew, good explanation thanks. Would it be better to choose the R6 over the R7? For the price difference I can buy the 100-400 with the R7
Hey there. Really depends on what you are photographing. Do your shoot lag wildlife, birds, landscapes, people?
@@MatthewRaifman Hi there too :) Well I shoot whatever comes on my way nothing specific to be honest. R7 for birds I think but for DR the 6?
Wonderful explanation! Love the video. If I typically shoot just one shot at a time without a burst, What should I do?
Thanks! For a single shot, I think you should be fine with either EFCS or Electronic so I would probably used EFCS. There is still a rear curtain engaged to end the capture that might create shutter shock but it should be minimal!
I shoot the R7 and rf100-400mm combo everyday using electronic shutter. I only encounter rolling shutter problems in maybe one shot out of 500. If I'm shooting hummingbirds or bumblebees or maybe a bird just above reflecting water there will sometimes be evidence of rolling shutter. Occasionally when panning there will be vertical lines in the background that are tilted. I probably shoot 200 to twelve hundred shots a day and maybe one in five hundred or one burst out of the entire day will have that going on. When I'm shooting hummingbirds or bumble bees or something where it happens more often I switch to mechanical and get good results. Using DXO and then topaz sharpen ai on my raw file subjects I guess I'm not seeing that shutter shock from the occasional mechanical shutter use. I do enjoy the sharpness of electronic shutter and very rarely have to worry about the effects.
Thanks for the comment! Glad you are getting such great results. I suspect specific lenses also have different effects on both shutter shock and rolling shutter. Shutter shock due to weight and IS variance and rolling shutter due to weight and handling attributes. My primary focus in this video was to highlight that ES gives one sharper images. Sounds like you see that too?
Agreed, with both of you.
Sounds like you are shooting mostly stationary subjects!
@@amateurphotographer1096 A lot of flying birds and action. Rolling shutter here and there, but not enough to dissuade me from using electronic shutter exclusively with this camera. Three or four warped images out of a hundred are no big deal. The ones that are sharp are incredible. Detail is amazing, and you can crop quite a bit if need be. Gotten good results up to 5000 iso. Starts to fall apart a bit at 6400.
Thank you for this. I have been so frustrated. I will get a beautiful sharp image but somewhere on the shot will have a blurry patch? WTH? I returned my first R7 because I got so many soft images with the 100-500. The next R7 was a bit better but still lots of soft images. I did the new firmware, rebooted back to factory settings and now I get more sharp images but still blurry spots. I will take your advice and see what happens. I have the ef 300 series 1 with adapter and will try the electronic shutter to see what I get. I will be losing reach compared to the 500, but I need more keepers. Thanks for your time.
That sounds very frustrating indeed. I'm sorry that you had to return it. It's hard to tell what is causing the blurry spots; are you sure it isn't something to do with the lens? Are the spots in the same place every time? Good luck with the ef 300 and ES. It *should* be quite sharp. Try with and without a tripod to be sure. All the best, Matt
Just came across your channel. Very interesting and couldn't come at a better time. Long time canon user and current camera (80d) is long due for an upgrade. Was looking at the r7 but after your review and some other reviews i am not sold. Was looking at the new canon r6 mark ii but it is more expensive and not so sure it doesn't suffer from the same soft images. In the past i have shot everything from wildlife to street photography and sports. My latest interest is portrait photography with off camera flash. Sharpness is my number one concern. I would jump to another brand(don't really want to if i could help it) if i new that the majority of my image's would be tack sharp. All things considered of course. Sadly my budget doesn't allow for the r5. Would you have any recommendations for me with the info i provided? My threshold for soft images is very low. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for the great content. ✌️
Hey there. Thanks for the question. For portraits, not sure I’d recommend the r7. The camera requires workarounds but I think of it as a wildlife camera first. You deal with the shutter options to get the Canon AF and resolution. I am shooting canon for the AF and lens options for wildlife, but if I didn’t need that, I would honestly consider Nikon and Sony. They don’t use AA filters in their high res bodies and I find the images sharper than canon. Also the full frame body will be nice when shooting portraits to choose a blown out background when desired. The question is price. I would recommend looking at bodies with eye AF because it makes composition much easier. So assuming a max budget of $2500, you end up with a few options: sony a7riv or a7rv, Nikon Z7ii or z6ii, canon r6ii or r8. I would probably go: A7riv with sharp Sigma glass for portrait alone. If you want some wildlife potential, you might compromise with either the r6ii or the sony a7iv as canon and sony have better wildlife Af within this price point.
I would definitely concideer the R8 , its probably the cheapest way around in your case. Thx
I was excited to hear about the release of this camera, but I'm glad I didn't order one. No battery grip, noticeable rolling shutter makes it irrelevant for my sports shooting. My 7Dii performs reliably shooting outdoor (good light) sports (1DX ii for the low light stuff, for eg gymnastics) and gives me dual controls and added battery life with the BG attached. I won't say Canon dropped the ball with the R7, but an APS-c body with say, 24-28mp, minimal rolling shutter effect and a BG, would be fantastic for sports and wildlife shooters. A true 7d mkii replacement, not the 90D replacement they provided...
I'm with you. A true 7D mk II replacement (not the 90D they did) would have been amazing and I am still hoping that they deliver this. I have to hope that Canon heard the response to the R7 and is responding to demand. I think most of us would be willing to pay $2500 for a crop R6ii. I will say that the autofocus on the R7 (and most new R series cameras now) is extraordinary and a huge leap from the DSLR days. It is really something out of this world and very fun to work with.
Thanks for the reply 😃 I had a play around with a R6 last summer and the AF was amazing. That said, my 1DX mkii blows me away, even compared to the 1DX/7D mkii af and the ITR face tracking works a treat for shooting field sports. If I could stretch to a R3 I would but even used they’re 2.5x more than I paid for my used 1DX ii. I don’t see Canon producing a pro grade crop body but I live in hope too! I’d be all over that.
@@stubones We can all dream! I cannot fathom buying an R3 myself. It's a very expensive camera for its specs in my opinion (but I also have not shot it, so I cannot really comment). All the matters is that we are able to capture the shots we aspire to. The gear is just a tool!
If you are showing images on an HD screen or social media you don't need the high pixel density, you can use crop mode on the R5 and get a far cleaner, better image with no rolling shutter.
I am with you on this. That's been my advice to those considering a used R5 vs the R7. With R5 prices dropping to around $3k or even below, it becomes a really attractive option even in crop mode. There are about 40% more pixels on the subject with the R7, so you do have more croppability which can be valuable even for HD/social if doing a lot of cropping.
@@MatthewRaifman my other worry is that unless you have serious glass you lose out on sharpness because of pixel density, the sensor sees that you lens is not that good. I first noticed it when using my 5D3 and 7D2, I coincidentally managed to take the same shot with the same lens and it was obvious that the 7D2 image was softer. Most lenses resolve around 20mp, the 300 f2.8 manages 30 incidentally, so putting on on an 85mp sensor nay not work that well. As I don't have a 90D or R7 I can't check this out. I did a YT video, kzhead.info/sun/g9yhor2tiH18o6M/bejne.html comparing the Sigma lens and a Canon 100-400Lii and I didn't bother upgrading, I would like to try the Sigma on a 32mp crop sensor if I get the chance. Using the R5 I have to be careful, the firmware is probably designed to soften Sigma images.
@@blisteringbooks2428 I think this is a great point. I'm curious where you found that 30mp resolution point about the ef 300 f/2.8. Any chance you might share? Yes, the whole Canon third party policy and its ramifications is a can of worms in itself!
I already knew without testing the R7, the 90D's mechanical shutter also causes blur, it's the same sensor as the R7. On the 90D I use the 1st curtain shutter since the electronic one only works via the screen. The 1st curtain improves by 50% but in reality the electronics are better, for me this situation in the R7 was not surprising. obs: for me the image quality of the 90D is better than the R7.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. One thing, however, sensors and shutters are two different things. Just because two cameras share the same sensor (Canon has stated they improved the 90D sensor) doesn’t mean they have the same shutter.
@@MatthewRaifman 👍🇧🇷
Great video. One of the types of photos I take, is youth football at night. I use the kit lens of 18-150. I am fairly happy with my results after Lightroom, but wonder, because of moving the camera alot while taking shots, night time, and the settings involved with that (high ISO), will Elec shutter still be better than mech for this type of shooting?
Hey there. I would think mechanical is better because of the moving camera piece. The other conditions (night and high iso) shouldn’t be a factor. Maybe try both and report back!
Walking around shooting birds and wildlife with electronic shutter and hi+ 30fps compressed raw on the R7 I can bump the shutter quickly and get around 4 to 7 shots, or I can feather the shutter slightly longer and get 10 - 25 images or more without ever having to wait on the buffer or get a lot more shots than I want. Most of them will be sharp and a few will be very sharp.
Yeah, personally I’ve been entirely fine with the R7 buffer. I shoot compressed raw and naturally am more of a feather shooter than hammer shooter.
Hi Matthew, You mentioned the MP was in the 80 marks - I was wondering how this is the case as it's 32.5mp advertised? Wasn't sure if this is to do with the crop ratio, but really keen to understand why, as the high MP of the R5 makes it the go to choice for landscape & some sports.
Hey sorry about the delayed response. It’s a crop sensor, so if you take the resolution and pixel density and extrapolate the size sensor you’d need on a full frame to have the same pixels on the subject, you get around an 80 mp resolution.
Personally, I shoot both the r7 and r5. The r7 is great if you need to crop, but it has its limitations for action sports. I think the r5 is a more useful all around camera because it has great resolution and can handle action in ES without bad rolling shutter.
I used to believed that EFCS does not have shutter shock, but I was wrong. When I use EFCS (electronic first curtain shutter), EVERY images are not sharp. My R5 with 1.6 crop is even sharper than R7, both EFCS and exact same settings! But ES on R7 is just fine. I really hope that Canon release a firmware to solve this issue. Very frustrating. I use 100-500 and 1/200 sec to lower the ISO. It seems that if the shutter is faster than 1/300, the shutter shock can be negated.
Yes, this is absolutely my experience too. No question there is shutter shock I’m EFCS. I’m going to do some more testing when the weather clears up here and will share.
I really wish they took the electronic readout speed and autofocus snappiness of the R6 Mark II and applied it to the R7 while upping the price a bit; if they did I would’ve no doubt chosen the R7 over the R6 Mark II, but I guess there’s a reason it’s a whole thousand dollars cheaper.
Good contribution to the sharpness discussions...i'm agreeing with using electronic on this camera for maximum sharpness. I do hate the constant references though to "different depth of field" on crop sensor cameras...it's just not true.
Appreciate the comment. I responded to your other one with more of an explanation. I'm not disagreeing with you - we are talking about field of view here - but I do feel like most people value the discussion of depth of field situationally and not explicitly technically. IE comparative depth of field under different situations rather than the depth of field equation. But I respect that you may disagree and I appreciate that technically depth of field does not change.
Rolling shutter - no problem but did get a sparrow just diving off it's perch. Wing was horribly distorted. Huge number of frames - I shoot silent at 15 fps. I edit and sort with Photo Mechanic software. I can really get through the large number of bad/weak frames quickly and make large number of discards. Mainly discard bad eye composition and lack of catch light in the eye. SHOOT A LOT OF SHOTS - YOU AND THAT BIRD WILL JUST BE THERE ONCE. Also I have shot for decades with a lot of cameras, and the R7 shutter sounds like a lame toy.
This is a really good, easy to understand explanation of shutter options. But it brings up a nagging (at least to me) issue with photography these days. Are we engaged in an arms race, seeking sharper and sharper captures and chasing pixel counts, at the expense of things like composition? Granted, I love the cropping ability a high megapixel sensor provides, but when I pull out one of my coffee table books and look at, say, images Frans Lanting produced pre-digital, it’s the artistry that makes the image, not the sharpness. So my question is: are we prioritizing technical perfection over composition? I see a lot of beautiful photos on these sorts of videos but rarely do the images generate much emotion.
I have a lot of thoughts about this. For one, goal here is to provide information and help folks get the most out of the equipment they are purchasing. Second, I also completely agree that by overly fixating on sharpness - or even focus - we can ignore composition and artistic elements. These pieces can be harder to teach and also I think everyone needs to find their own style and approach. While I respect that you do not feel moved by my images, there are those that are and chose to purchase them. That’s totally ok! People as we moved by different things! But I do take your point, and I definitely want to do more with composition guidance as well. Honestly, it is much harder to teach that too.
Thank you for confirming the lack of sharpness that I have been experiencing in the 2 weeks I have owned this camera. I'm not sure this the right camera for me as I shoot alot of waterfalls @ s l o w shutter speeds. The silky water looks good, but the rocks are soft.
i shoot electronic shutter on my r7 like 90% of time. if i want to get an action shot of wildlife ill use first curtain but for most part i just find the electronic shutter images to be much more pleasing. I think the bokeh is also softer in electronic. half the time im shooting in low enough light that i need to be under 1/500 anyway so shooting electronic doesnt matter anyway I hope canon does an "R4" thats an actual high end apsc. Like literally an R3 with an apsc sensor.
Thanks for sharing your experience. Fingers crossed! I would love that R4.
Yes we are all waiting for a high end apsc.
@@waynedettman6472 would get in a heartbeat
Not sure that any of the manufacturers believe there is a significant marketplace for a +$2,000.00 (or, for what you describe) +$3,000.00 or more, APS C camera in 2023.
@@alansach8437 om systems(4/3rds but smaller sensor still), Fuji, and Sony with new a6700 would disagree. Huge number of wildlife photography community using lenses with TCs would also show there would be a market for it.
Phil Thach sent me over. I have R7 and RF 100-500 F4.8+. Happy to discover this shutter talk. I will try. I'm lame on uploading lots of images. I have Photo Mechanic and FastStone and need to learn them. Do you have any preferences for uploading to either Lightroom or Photoshop? I am also in New England, the Berkshires in MA. Thanks, Matthew.
That was kind of him to give me a shout out. My approach is to use FastRAWViewer to view images and select the limited number that I want to process (I think FastStone fulfills the same objective). Then I process directly from FastRAWViewer into DxO PureRAW 2 to remove noise from the RAW file then into Lightroom for processing. Capture One looks better to be honest but I prefer the masking tools in Lightroom.
Also, greetings from Brookline!
@@MatthewRaifman Thank you! Valuable input.
I’m thinking shall l wait for the R7 mark 2?
Hi Matt, I was very curious about this so today I did my own testing, 4 images, same stationary subject, one in EFCS and one in ES (I used the lens kit (18-150)). 500 shutter, f/8, auto ISO. I opened them up in LightRoom and viewed them at 100%, side by side. To my surprise the ES was indeed sharper. I couldn't tell without opening them up to 100%, but there is defiantly more sharpness when using ES. But as I said in my previous post, I shoot allot of sports so ES is not an option. But you are spot on with this video. What is causing this? Is the R7 shutter mechanism know to be that severe as you pointed out? I also own the R6 and R5, I am wondering if those cameras will also show the same type of results in testing ES vs EFCS. Also, I have the old 6D and once did a test with its regular shutter and Live View, I remember the Live View images being sharper.
Thank you for following up and testing it yourself. One never knows with certainty if it is their camera, user error, or a real finding and multiple people testing it is the best way to have confidence in the finding. I’m glad that we observe the same thing. I have an R5 too and I have not seen the same issue. I shoot the R5 in ES most of the time too because the rolling shutter is not terrible even for moving subjects. The shutter on the R7 is certainly unusually loud so it seems plausible that the impact is the issue. Another theory I have is that the IBIS in the R7 might be different and in conflict with the shutter (I’ve noticed IBIS doesn’t perform as well on the R7 as the R5 with the same lens mounted). I’m curious if you find similar results with the R5/R6 too. Thanks for the comment.
@@MatthewRaifman Funny thing...for me that is, I just purchased this R7 two weeks ago and still have time to return it. I'm not sure I want to keep it now with football season right around the corner. I was planning on using this R7 for the extra 1.6 reach over my R6 and R5. Now I am afraid of this shutter shock issue being a problem.
@@danc3746 Not that you asked for my advice, but my personal recommendation would be to return the R7 and shoot the R5 in crop mode just because you are shooting sport. For even wildlife, which has similar demands, I would make the case for the R7 because one can use ES and just ditch the files that have rolling shutter. For sport, I think you would see that rolling shutter in ES, as you mentioned, and so you’re stuck only shooting mechanical, and it might be frustrating.
@@MatthewRaifman I agree with the return. I have used the R5 in crop mode at times and it performed very well. And to tell you the truth, with 45mp on the R5, cropping out of full frame mode was never an issue either, that also goes for the R6 even though its only 20mp. Quick note, I just tested my R6 the same way I tested the R7, two images, one using ES and one EFCS, no difference at all in sharpness! The R6 gave me the same results no matter what shutter mode I used. Also, I went back to the R7 and shut off Stabilization in the camera and re-tested, it didn't make a difference.
@@danc3746 glad you can return. I think that test bodes well for the R5 too as they have comparably soft shutters. This corroborates my thought that the issue is indeed the shutter. Glad you made the decision. Good luck with the sports season!
Matt, what about color but rate? Doesn’t that drop in ES? If so, is that any concern?
Great question. I have not been able to confirm this because the Canon full technical specifications do not include the info (downloads.canon.com/notthistime/cameras/better/EOSR7_specifications-5-22.pdf) but my assumption is that the bit depth does drop from 14 bit to 12 bit in electronic because that is what happened on the R5. On the other hand, I believe the R6ii manages 14 bit RAW files for the ES up to H and not H+ (based on Jared Polin's review). So the answer is that I'm not sure. I haven't noticed any noticable change in color, however, so I suppose that tells me that I'm ok with it.
I use my R7 at a 3fps burst speed, since I'm not shooting sports or hummingbirds. Using an old EF 200mm f/2.8 L II USM, I get tack sharp images that let me crop deeply hand-held at 1/100 of a second relying on the camera's IBIS when photographing singers. I try to avoid ISOs much above 500 to reduce noise.
Thanks for sharing. I suspect that at 3 fps the interval between shots is long enough for the shutter to settle. But either way, that’s great that you’re getting the shots you want and that’s all that matters. Thanks for the comment
Masterly
What would you buy an R7 or an R6 markii? I do mostly wildlife and landscapes, thank you.
This is a tough one that comes up a lot. At the end of the day, it comes down to budget and subject. However, if you ask me personally (which you did!) I’d get the r6ii. If you think you’ll be constantly wishing for more pixels on your subject, then the R7 is worth considering or opting for glass that has a longer focal length. I think the read out speed on the r6ii opens more doors for action and AF speed than the R7 crop factor does for most applications.
@@MatthewRaifman Thank you! Something to think about.
Just a thought, is the shutter shock due to the fact the sensor is a stabilised one so would a crop sensor without the IBIS be better?
I think this is a key question. I've tested informally but need to do a formal comparison. I'm actually thinking of doing another video where I fix shutter speed at 1/2000s and aperture wide open and then try: 1) IS on and off and 2) tripod mounted or handheld. Anything else you think I should try to test?
@@MatthewRaifman if you can get hold of an R10 camera to do a comparison.
So I'm getting into real estate media. Would you recommend using the r7 for real estate with a tripod? It would always be on a tripod. I'd probably get the newer 10-18 mm lense
Hey! Yeah, I would have no hesitations about using that combo for real estate. The image quality is excellent and your images will be very sharp on a tripod. I’d recommend the electronic shutter with a 2 or 10 second timer. Good luck!
Thank you. I heard it's good for video also which I also do
I still say it after trying R7 last year. This hiper hyped camera will be ordered by Canon users anyway. Found out this issues right away on the first 50 shots. ALso back/front focus issues constantly with RF lenses. Now Canon has made the money, surely R7II will be better but feel like a toy as R6II
Yes you may be right. I use the R5 more these days due to these frustrations. I agree the R7ii will improve. A stacked crop sensor from canon would be excellent.
I just bought this camera and hope I don’t regret it. I thought this would a significant upgrade and now I’m not sure. 🤦♀️
It’s all relative! I don’t want to dissuade you or anyone from getting the R7, but there are some issues for sure. If you’re coming from a 90D for example, I think it’s a worthy upgrade. Just know your shutter options and choose with that in mind.
Hi Matthew. In the comments below you mentioned that you going to make "more testing when the weather is fine". Could not find any new videos on that topic. Did you have a chance to do that? 🙂
Unfortunately I no longer have the R7 and didn’t get a chance to redo testing. We moved and had a second kid, so life got in the way!
@@MatthewRaifman thank you for replying! And good luck
Great video apart from the constant buzzing alarm in the background, full of useful information
Alarm?
I wonder if the shutter shock is exacerbated by using IBIS at high shutter speeds? I haven't noticed any issues yet.
I think this is a good point and still outstanding question in my mind. I am planning to do some specific testing on this question and will try and put together a video on it to share.
I can't remember if this or another video, but it suggested on 100-500 to use mode 3 which freezes when taking the photo, for me yes, it seems better
Does the firmware update improve the electronic sensor reading speed?
Unfortunately firmware cannot change the sensor readout speed unless it was artificially slowed with software. In this case, I think we’re seeing max speed from the sensor as it is older tech. Not a dealbreaker, but I wouldn’t hold my breath.
@@MatthewRaifman ok ty for the answer
Thanks a lot for your tips...but when you try to save on the body, you definitely have to spend more on lenses...😢
Such expensive equipment. No question
Well, I guess its safe to say that ES will produce slightly sharper images because there is no chance of any shutter shock, but I have not had any issues with MS or EFCS with the R7. I shoot allot of sports and ES is not an option.
Yeah, if you’re happy with your results then nothing to change! Agree, for sports, you’ve got to go with MS or EFCS.
Does this shutter shock issue affect Canon EOS R and the R6 as well
I haven't had a check to check on those bodies. Anecdotally, I would think it would not be as bad.
Duade Patton just posted a video about the R7 that I think would interest you.
@duadepatton is wonderful. Very interesting to here Canon's feedback. Makes sense to me, though, the sensor readout is too slow on this sensor. I think maybe using H instead of H+ in EFCS will help with shutter slap too. Interesting work around.
What lens did you use for the snowdrop? 1:50
That shot was taken with the R7 + rf100-500 + 1.4x TC. Was surprised how well it turned out. Both the lens and the TC are really great.
@@MatthewRaifman As good as if you have used the 100mm Macro I guess… 👍
@@Amddurin You know, I've always been intrigued by the 100mm macro. I didn't want to go with the RF version because it has focus shift issues and that annoyed me in such an expensive lens. The ef 100mm f/2.8 L version seems great and I've considered picking one up if I could find one for around $500. That said, I've enjoyed using the Laowa lenses too even though they are manual focus. Ultimately, I haven't gotten one yet because I can get close to 0.5x partial macro with the rf100-500 + 1.4 or the 35mm f/1.8 lenses and that is good enough for me right now.
It's an OK solution for static subject but about moving ones you want the fps for the different poses, if you have to discard all the inbetween poses due to warping that's not a good hack.
Yes, that’s what’s frustrating about this camera. For certain situations like very fast movement, there is no good solution: either slightly blurry images with mechanical or accept rolling shutter.
How successfully can you use electronic shutter handheld on a still animal? 🤔 thanks
I think it’s the mode to use precisely in that situation. You can achieve a sharper image and the stationary subject minimizes rolling shutter (though it still occurs due to movement in your camera). Try it! I suspect you’ll find a few shots that are sharper than what was achievable in mechanical. Thanks for the question
@@MatthewRaifman awesome and great video. I can get R7 and rf100-400 for £1600 and want to shoot wildlife. Don’t think anything comes close at that price. Happy to make some adaptions when so many great perks at good price. Gunna pull the trigger
@@rich060286 Nice! Yeah, that lens is a great sharp and reasonably priced option. Don’t be afraid to push ISO to 12800 on the R7 and process files with DxO pure raw. The alternative for the same price would be the R8. It loses IBIS but gains a much faster sensor read out that gives better rolling shutter performance. It’s full frame so that’s nice but doesn’t get you the same field of view as a crop. It depends on the wildlife subject. Small birds: R7. Larger mammals: R8.
Hi Matthew. Where can your photos be viewed?
You can find me on Instagram @matthewraifman or my website: www.matthewraifman.com. Thanks!
Hey, can you explain me why the electronic shutter is sharper than the mechanical shutter? Is that only with the r7 or is it the same thing with the r5 and r6 mark ii for example? Do you also use only the electronic shutter in your other cams? :)
Yeah, in a nutshell: mechanical shutters include a physical movement that can shake the camera. for the R7, we have a very strong one that has a vibrating effect. When that physical shock happens, it shakes the sensor a bit and causes a motion blur when the camera takes the picture. Even at the extreme case, this is relatively minimal but when you factor in the high resolution of the R7 crop sensor with telephoto lenses, the effect is more pronouced. The electronic shutter does not use a mechanical action. Instead, it's more like taking a frame of a movie and recording it as a photo. There is no physical shake to blur the image. Now, electronic shutter use can produce rolling shutter impacts but that is a separate concern. The mechanical shutter effect is specifically about two things: one the severity of the physical shutter, the other is how well the IBIS of the camera might compensate for it. The r5 and r6i/ii have softer shutter mechanisms and the mechanical shutter blurring is reduced substantially. EFCS addresses this entirely on the R5 and R6i/ii. But not on the R7. I don't hesitate to use mechanical or EFCS on the r5. Hope that answers your questions!
@@MatthewRaifmanThank you so much, i think i understand it now with the R7. But which shutter gives you the best results in your R5? Do you use mechanical, electronic or EFCS there?
@@rexio_1516 for the r5 and r6, it’s more situation dependent. In a controlled environment like a studio with no movement, the electronic shutter will be the best option. In the field for wildlife, if the subject is not moving and I’m able to handhold well or use a support, I might shoot electronic shutter or if I need 20 fps. The r6ii has even less rolling shutter, so shooting ES all the time is fine. For a fast moving subject with panning, I shoot EFCS because there’s no rolling shutter. For a landscape, I’d shoot EFCS or mechanical. But basically you’re ok with any option on the r5 or r6 s in most situations
@@MatthewRaifmanAh okay, but why the mechanical or EFCS for landscape? Isnt this a more or less controlled environment too? And would you recommend the r6 mark ii for wildlife with its 24 MP? Do you know if you upscale these 24 MP to lets say 45 MP, is it then the same result like you would have shot it with the R5? Or do i loose quality? Sorry i am an absolute beginner in photography :)
@@rexio_1516 hey, yes my error. I meant electronic or ECFS for landscape (not mechanical). I’ve seen some reviews of ups along the r6ii and they suggest it isn’t quite as good as the r5. However I would consider whether you need the huge print resolution for landscape. I would be fine with the r6ii I think for landscape. For wildlife, I like the r5 because I can crop in when I cannot get close enough to the subject. Otherwise, the r6ii is a better camera because I prefer it’s autofocus to the r5.
Such a shame they didn't even use BSI with this sensor. One of the defining principles of a premium crop body should be the use of premium sensor technology because the sensors are so inexpensive. Then again maybe the R7 only barely counts as premium given how affordable it really is. I would have been twice as happy if they had charged a few hundred dollars more and used an ultra fast readout stacked sensor.
Agreed! It exists in an inbetween world. It’s either an entry camera that canon put top tier AF into or a more advanced camera that is limited by the shutter choices. I think a lot of folks would happily $2500 for a stacked APSC sensor from canon
@@MatthewRaifman I said they could charge a few hundred dollars not a thousand! Fuji charges a $500 premium from the X-H2 to the stacked H2S, which would put the "R7S" at $2,000 (or $1,750 at current sale prices on the R7).
@@budthecyborg4575 I’m just saying, the market would bear it. Canon AF is much better than fuji (and I love Fuji character) so I think a premium is reasonable for a canon stacked apsc vs fuji but we’ll see what happens with canon anyway!
@@budthecyborg4575 Haha, fair enough. I think the market would bear a higher price from Canon because the AF algorithm and processing is superior to Fuji. Either way, there would be a lot of demand!
@@MatthewRaifman Considering how much it would overlap with the R3 I can agree the Canon customer market probably would pay more. That said for $2,500 I would take the R6MkII over a stacked sensor R7.
Why didn t you mention the electronic 1st curtain?
But I do…you’re best off using ES unless panning
@@MatthewRaifman Right. Thanks.
Does this apply to still objects?
Yes, I would advise trying electronic shutter especially for still objects because you will have minimal rolling shutter (which eliminates the downside to using electronic shutter) and you will remove the impact of the heavy shutter shock. Try it. I think you’ll see sharper shots with ES.
@@MatthewRaifman Could you touch on the 1.3.0 update, apparently H+, H fps have changed to a variable based on shutter speed.
@@linkinjunior I haven't updated to 1.3.0 yet but that is very interesting. I'll update when I do. I wonder how that might affect electronic shutter - I don't think it would - but it might affect the shutter shock for mechanical and EFCS. That said, hard for me to imagine it eliminating the issue, because even in EFCS the first shot is sharp followed by shots that are not. This implies that the shutter hasn't settled after the first shot. The fps would have to be quite slow to address this. But hey, that's just my take without trying it so let's see.
The camera has severe focus hunting issue with Servo. It is what you might have experienced, not shutter shock.
There are some focus issues, but this is a difference in sharpness between the ES and MS once focus is acquired so that’s attributed to the shutter and not focus. Thanks for the comment!
@@MatthewRaifman it is widely known that the shutter will create a shock no matter the body you use, it is vastly common knowledge in astro photography since most astro photographers will keep the mirror up or use the electronic shutter when taking photos, so it is not attributed only to the R7. Also, there's a rule or third when using a lens, especially telephotos, that you need to keep the shutter at the same ratio of the lens distance (ie 300mm = 1/300 sec, 500mm = 1/500 sec etc), to minimize vibrations 'trails' and have sharper pictures. Granted, in my experience, I do have FCES on and it mitigate the shock effects, I can get away with low shutter speed with remarkably sharp picture with the R7.
@@jonzmoviebar7580 Hi, yes I agree. Sorry, but your initial comment had me thinking that you were suggesting that the issue was something to do with the focus. I was just sharing that there are some focus hunting issues with the R7, but that the issues one solves for with ES is the severe shutter shock on the R7. Sounds like you agree! I bet you will be able to get a sharper shot with ES than EFCS. Give it a go! If you're happy with the shots you're getting on the R7 already though, then of course that's all good and no need to adjust your approach. Happy shooting
@@MatthewRaifman I mean, all I was trying to say is the issue is known for any bodies with shutters, so if I shoot with enough shutter speed the images will just be as sharp as the ES, that's the way is. And yes I have made my own testing and of course the one with the mechanical shutter will have more shutter shock exposure if the speed is too slow (and confirmed that the image will just be as sharp as ES if I compensate with the rule of third), but I will never do that on the field, I will just make sure that I will have either enough shutter speed to compensate or switch to EFCS or ES (if the situation is ideal) with any bodies with long lenses. You'd probably get the same conclusion if you have thoroughly tested these methods.
@@jonzmoviebar7580 Thanks for sharing your opinion. Best of luck to you and I’m glad you are happy with the photos you are taking. That is all that matters.
Your talk was a bit off the beaten track but one question remained unanswered, what if I take a single shot with a 3-second timer? Yes, one would take a burst shot, but there are many other scenarios.
Yeah, I think there are a lot of variations and considerations that one could consider. Ultimately, we need to find out what works out best for us. For my work, which tends to be moving wild subjects, a three second time in single shot mode is not very practical. I tend to shoot bursts and without a timer. Even so, I think the electronic shutter will be sharper than mechanical. The EFCS should be similar to electronic shutter. I will try to test this.
@@MatthewRaifman Thanks Matthew, I appreciate your input and the video itself. I am stuck between selecting R7 and R6 Mark 2, but the cost is double in Munich for R6 Mark2 and I will lose 1.6-factor Zoom. Off course, I can return in 30 days' time but 32 megapixels is important for me and I do quite a different genre because photography is not a profession for me but I am doing it for the last 35 years. From Lubitel, Zenith, Canon Rebel, Samsung, and Nikon now to Canon Mirrorless. I like wildlife, Landscape, Portrait and Macro. Current Nikon is OK for me, but I want to do better. I will have 24-105 F4 and 100-500 RF
@@vimalneha It's always a challenge to recommend a camera for someone, but I would think generally about how much do you value: wide vs tele shots. Ultimately, to achieve a wide angle landscape shot on the R7, you're going to want to pick up the EF-S 10-18mm lens because that's the only real option right now. For full frame, you'll have a lot better choices. Also, another question to consider is what time of day do you typically shoot wildlife? If it is during the day when there's plenty of light, the 800mm f/11 is a steller and reasonably priced lens that can be used on full frame instead of the 100-500 and could help you cover the difference in price. Personally, I think I would probably get the R6ii, a wide angle lens (maybe used ef 16-35 or rf 14-35, 24-105 if you'd like, and the 800mm f/11). If you find yourself doing a lot of tele landscapes, then you might consider the 100-500 +1.4x TC or the 70-200 to fill that gap. I jsut think the R6ii is a more refined camera that is more versatile than the R7. Another option is to look at a used R6 mk i. The AF is great but not quite as good and it loses a few MP. Finally, I would seriously consider if you need to do Canon. The Sony A7IV + Sony FE 200-600 is a wonderful wildlife option. Add the Tamron 35-150 f/2-2.8 lens and you would be really set for most applications. Maybe get a wide angle lens later. Just a thought, but sony is maybe a better value because of cheaper high quality lens options.
@@MatthewRaifman WOW, I am really thankful that you wrote so much to give me all the valid points. Your statement that R6 MK2 is better and refined again forces me to think about the R6 V2 way. 26 megapixels is enough. Normally I don't crop much. Also barring certain situations for raw, I try getting JPG in good quality. Some changes with Photoshop or Luminar. You are right, after some time I will buy Tilt/shift for a wide angle. The only reason for Canon is I have worked in Canon and I will get a 15-20% rebate. Duade Paton also bought Sony even though he was a cannon shooter. Tamron 35-150 f/2-2.8 lens I didn't even know. Thanks for that. I would conclude with gratitude for your great points and advice. Best regards Vimal
@@vimalneha Why don't you look at the R8? Very much like the R6 II, but at least $1,000 cheaper. That's what I decided to do to complement my R5. Drawbacks: EV, battery, IBIS, weather sealing. But these are things I can live with, I think.
They fixed this with the new update, in H+ mode, the fps are a bit slower than before to prevent the shutter shock from happening.
Interesting! I haven’t read about that. Do you know if there’s any documentation of this? Please send sources. Thanks!
at 01.36 minutes you say that he has a 80 megapixel crop sensor??? it is in my opinion 34 MP.
Yeah, if you care only about cropability and want to compare the R7 to other cameras, you can convert the 33 mp crop sensor into an equivalent full frame resolution using pixel count and density.
R7 Crop sensor 32,5 MP X 1,6 cropfactor equals a 52 MP Fullframe camera… - So you get a little more detail than you would with a R5 at 45 MP in the crop area…
@@Amddurin not to get too far into this rather minute point, but simply multiplying by 1.6 is incorrect becuase it does not take into account pixel density differences between the R5 and R7. If you’d care to learn more, here’s a link with more discussion: www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4689155
@@MatthewRaifman Dam - Now my R6 went down to about 8 MP instead of 12 MP, I though it was, if I would adapt my EF-S lenses on it… (20 MP / 1,6 )
@@Amddurin yeah, there are never enough MP :-)
I haven't experienced your issues at all. Shooting people, their eyes and faces generally are very sharp, the rest is usually soft (to varying degrees) depending on how wide I go with the aperture. With my 14-24mn 2.8 Art lens, landscape or cityscape images are very sharp, edge-to-edge. With my Sigma 50mm 1.4 Art lens, at f/4 buildings are super sharp edge-to-edge. My standards are as high as yours, I hate soft images and very rarely get them. There's no way I'm shooting 30fps to get sharp images when I'm already getting them at ANY frame rate, including 3fps or single shot.
I'm glad to hear that! I'm going to do another video I think where I show the results visually and go into a little be more depth with the testing. No question that the 30fps is a nuisance to deal with but my workflow accommodates it fine. I use FastRAWviewer to cull the images, process direct in DxO PureRAW from there if needed, and then edit in lightroom or capture one. SD cards are cheap these days and it isn't that big a deal. BUT glad you are getting the shots you want and that's all that matters!
how is 200-800 with R7
Would love to test it but haven’t had a copy to try yet
In my opinion it's absolutely ridiculous the amount of distortion and blur people are getting with this disaster of a camera. It's 2023 and we shouldn't have to be doing remedial videos like this.
I’m not saying you’re wrong! I ended up selling mine and shoot exclusively with the R5.
@MatthewRaifman A shame, because it does have a very good sensor. Thanks for the reply.
Here is the reply from Canon on this video if you stay out of H+ you'll be pretty good it is the read out speed of the r7 stay out of 30 fps.. kzhead.info/sun/m9emiZieaHxmp3A/bejne.htmlsi=jDel9ZDs-j_HPoyO
Love Duade though I believe this is more solving the AF issues rather than rolling shutter, no? Two separate issues.
In short, you'll have to spend north of $2500 on a lens for your $1400 camera to get crisp shots in normal lighting conditions that bird photographers deal with on a constant basis.
Well, it quite because the lens won’t be affecting the rolling shutter issues
There is no such thing as “equivalent resolution”
There is no spoon