Metroid Prime 2: Echoes, released for the Gamecube in 2004, was ignored in favor of its contemporaries, and overshadowed in history by its predecessor. What went wrong?
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Thank you so much for this review. As a MASSIVE prime 2 fan, I could not help but just grin throughout the entire video. You got exactly what I loved about prime 2, and honestly, I prefer 2 to 1, but my god, this was amazing. This was a blast to check out, and I honestly hope this video will help out people get into prime 2 as well!
Seconded. Like Geek Critique, I liked Prime 2 better than Prime, for all the reasons he enumerated in this video. Moreover, I watched this video after commenting on his first one and enumerating a few additional things I disliked in the first Prime... only to find that he had already made this video and indicated that Prime 2 had largely addressed all those concerns. Satisfying!
I'm really excited to see the Prime 3 video now. It's definitely not the best in the series but it's got a lot of the good elements from both 1 and 2, so I think he'd like it more than Prime 1.
I also loved MP2 over the first one, even more than Corruption. The ambience, the music, the first prime was too "cliché", the third one was too contaminated by the schemes of MP Hunters (the planet-travelling sequences and the presence of too many NPC's), although its playability was the ultimate perfection. Echoes played with one of my favorite themes of any game--Parallel dimensions and the puzzles developed around that concept.
Same! I am a massive prime 2 fan as well. Its always been my favorite metroid game. The only part I disagree with was the music. I think prime 2s music was on par if not better than prime 1.
I liked Prime 2's music better than MP. All boss themes are memorable (except for Amorbis, which is too simple for my taste), Chykka and Quadraxis are awesome, and Emperor Ing is my current ringtone!! Sanctuary Fortress is catchy and upbeat, torvus bog and underwater torvus' appeal to nostalgia is a brilliant execution. Whereas in MP I only liked Norfair's remix (magmoor) and Phendrana South... Everything else is Meh. I think Echoes has the superior metroid music.
That shot of this towering alien race bowing and giving gratitude to Samus after she saved their planet and her just heading out and nonchalantly giving a small wave is so badass damn
lol no it's forced edge and it's stupid
Nicolle Agreed. Probably my favorite scene of any game.
mikallink You must not know Samus.
I do, and it's still a weak way to leave. Echoes was better than that trash corruption though by a mile. At least in echoes the aliens apoke alien language and sounded great, in corruption the admirals voice acting was so bad I found myself voicing his lines. The other hunters weren't anything that exciting either and should have had more development other than quick cameos in opening act and the classic "we all failed and are now boss enemies" theme.
mikallink why is is “forced edge” I think it is a fine ending with samus not really needing any more that a thank you and of course understanding that the light and dark suits are not something she can keep after this, personally a loved it and along side fusion it is what showed me the Metroid series over a decade ago
Prime 2 gives Samus amazing characterization. She gives a moment of respect to the fallen Marines by closing the Captain's eye. She agrees to help the Luminoth without any form of payment. Some of the gear you pick up makes her eyes light up with intrigue and excitement. Her logbook has her own notes on certain tools. She lays a smackdown on enemies with confidence. She gives almost all her abilities to the Luminoth, and she walks away with a gentle wave of her hand. Summary: she's a kind, confident, resourceful nerd who doesn't stick around to be praised.
You know... they keep saying that Samus is a bounty hunter. They also keep saying that Samus is one of the greatest (come on, as if anyone else *actually* compares) in the galaxy and completes missions that nobody else would even dare. That means that Samus is rich. Samus is probably so rich that I wouldn't be surprised if she owns a planet. Like an entire planet as her personal fiefdom. She just doesn't need payment lmao.
I just realized that the entire Prime Trilogy came out in the same years as the original Spider-Man Trilogy. Prime 1: 2002 Spider-Man 1: 2002 Prime 2: 2004: Spider-Man 2: 2004 Prime 3: 2007 Spider-Man 3: You see the pattern by now, right
That's a shame
Yep and both trilogies were Huge influences during my teen years.
Coincidence?!? I THINK NOT!!!!
The Spectacular SpiderGoblin Spider-Man 4 confirmed?
The Spectacular SpiderGoblin Prime 3 was decent. It wasn't terrible. It just wasn't as amazing as Prime 1 or 2
My favorite part of echoes is the writing. All the weapons the luminoth give you are dripping with lore of their desperation to repel the ing. Even the crystals throughout the world are remnants of their scouting missions. It all feels very believable as a world
Not to mention that you literally can’t beat the game unless you read some of the lore. The sky temple keys are located by reading the final words of their former guardians
@@amuroray9115 ngl I kinda just wandered around the dark worlds until I found them. whoops
I remember getting this game for Christmas. I loved Prime so much, and Echoes was my most anticipated game of the year. It was the only thing I asked for that year, so imagine my excitement when I opened my final present and found... a hairdryer? Yea, my parents hid the game in a hairdryer box just to watch my heart momentarily break. Jerks.
my family did the same thing. twice. with 2 cans of soup and one of my shoes.
dude your family is great lol
Ur family is a piece of shit. U should reject them and the memory of them totally
My dad hid a game in a box, in a box, in a box, in a box, in a box. He gave me a giant box to make me think I was getting surprised with something expensive and awesome.
@@morgulstower5839 no u
"To recover the boost ball, you'll have to beat the boost guardian" Wait, you mean the boost guardian WASN'T a killscreen?
Boost guardian was needed in the Wii trilogy.
There's a funny story during the development of the game, where after they got the boost guardian working, they had everyone in the building try to beat it, including the president of the company. Nobody could.
@@kargaroc386 if thats true I’d laugh so hard
@@meta9492 It's true. The senior director of development at Retro at the time, Bryan Walker, has openly admitted that he was never able to defeat the Gamecube Boost Guardian without going into debug mode.
@@coreymon78 this makes me feel better about myself. I just beat the boost guardian with only 3 health upgrades.
I think putting you in Agon for a long time was intentional. Agon being an empty desert makes you wish for something more. Then you enter Torvus which feel so fresh, makes you want to play more. Then Sanctuary blows your mind. This game is fantastic, forgot to say F^^^ the Spider Guardian
Off course this is undermined by the fact that is that agon and torvus have far too similar color palets, making torvus feel less like a new area and more like agon 2, this does make getting to the fortress an absolute relief, but I don't think it's worth the sacrifice in atmosphere for more than half the game
@@lancestriker0111 That is the biggest load of bullshit I ever read about the color palets of both places 😂😂😭 their color palets are nothing alike bro, stop trying
This guy definitely played on gamecube
@@lancestriker0111 what? They look nothing alike. Temple Ground and Agon Waste are similar and that's it
The Spider Guardian is *easy*. The Boost Guardian is the one that's hard.
"They even chuckle the same way" You fool, don't you know that unlike sonic, knuckles don't chuckle?
And he'd rather flex his muscles?
He takes them down, whether they're solid OR frail?
He,unlike the rest,is indipendent?
Since his first breath, no less
Metroid Prime 2 still remains my favorite Metroid game. Beating it on hard mode with no dark suit STILL remains my greatest gaming achievement.
Whoa, that's impressive!
Holy shit. I found Hard Mode on its own to be one of the stiffest gaming challenges I'd accomplished. Without the Dark Suit just blows my mind.
Wait you did just skip the dark suit pickup? Dose that affect the game more than damage vise? How do you get the waterboost?
TaurusOxford thats impressive i never thought of that. Makes me want to attempt that cuz this game is my favorite metroid game other than super metroid
Nice! I am still trying to get to get past quadraxis without the dark suit. I cannot get out of the map with the triple bomb jump
"I decided to go with the Gamecube original" Bahahah, glorious! Hope you had fun with that Pre-Nerf Boost Guardian.
Oh god it’s harder in the original?!
@@benortiz8702 Oh yeah. Quite a bit.
Oh God. And I was hardly able to kill it in the trilogy version.
Gamecube Boost Guardian is the only point I dread when playing through on Hard Mode. I've only ever beaten it once on Hard.
@@LorenHelgeson Same! I'll never be good at that garbage fight, I like playing the GC versions of Prime 1 and 2 more so it unavoidable.
This game is so underappreciated. I loved the first Prime, but this game is just so perfect for me. It's my favorite Metroid game out of the entire franchise. Hell, it might be my favorite game of all time. It's a fantastic blend of combat, exploration, and overall fun, and it hurts me that this game has such a lukewarm reception. This is a stellar game, it should be celebrated! Yeah, it has its flaws, but so does every other popular game ever made. That doesn't change everything about how the overall picture is, and in this case, that picture is something remarkable. I'm so happy that I found someone who shares a similar love for the game, someone who is willing to dedicate 42 minutes just to talk about it and try to get more people to play it. I didn't grow up with this game, but man, there's nothing I remember having this much fun with and having this much of an attachment to.
This is exactly my experience with this game. I loved Prime 1, and still do - but Prime 2 is just so fantastic, and I never expected it, but it really gave me the game I wanted. It's by no means perfect, and it isn't for everyone. But that doesn't undermine how top notch it is. I have no doubts about it being my favorite game of all time. And just like you, I too get happy when I come across people who share a similar love for this game. I didn't grow up with this game either, hell I never touched Metroid in my childhood but this game is just insanely fun, so much so that I replay it (and the entire series) at least twice every year.
I agree, it is amazing and still my favorite game of the franchise. I still replay it every year so. Theres rumors that nintendo are not going to give it the remastered treatment that prime 1 go but instead just a simple resolution bump. I really hope that is not true.
“Why does nobody love this game?” I DO IT’S MY FAVORITE PRIME GAME
Echoes is the Majora's Mask of Metroid.
Not quite.
I see it .its darker ,deeper combat ,pretty much deeper i every way .cool new gimick .differently higher .but everyone doesn't recognize how good it is and prime still stands better . Echoes aslo is shorter like majors mask
Nop
Except Majora's mask was timed and actually fun
Which is funny, because mechanically speaking Echoes is the Link to the Past of Metroid.
“This was the hardest boss so far” Well I mean, I hope so that’s the point of bosses
this was absolutely the BEST Metroid Prime 2: Echoes review I've Ever SEEN. Subbed.
Thank you, glad you enjoyed it! :D
Prime 2 > Prime 1
Change my mind.
Alex Schmid there is no need for change. You are correct.
@@ShibuNub3305 As someone who hasn't played a single Metroid game i have two questions. 1- How does Prime 3 stack up? 2- Should i play the Prime trilogy?
It really bugs me how so many people write this game off as being "the first game but harder and less colorful" and just ignore all the improvements the game made to prime 1's formula, and the new elements it added to the series. I can understand why most people prefer prime 1, but prime 2 deserves far more love than it gets.
The thing is that imho, other than the scan visor, there’s not much that it does improve on.
Being able to shoot while grappling Not asking you to leave an area to go to the opposite end of the planet 5 times Boost Ball actually working efficiently on half pipes Charge combos other than Super Missiles actually worth using Clever use of stronger arms meaning less spamming against enemies Bosses having more than just 3 attacks and making more use of your arsenal Yeah
Something I really like about this critique is that you don't say "Prime 2 is better, Prime 1 is garbage." Instead, you essentially say "the prime series has a game for everyone." I fall in the camp of loving the first Prime the most. I played it when I was young and It opened my eyes to a level of game immersion I had never experienced and I love exploring Tallon IV time and time again. I love Prime 2, but for the reasons you stated, it didn't stick with me the same way, although the world layout and Zelda Temple-esque locations are perhaps better designed. Can't wait for your video on Prime 3!
This is exactly why I love watching this show.
Best prime games: 2 > 1 > then 3. I'm glad someone showed echoes some love.
Haven't played Prime 3, but I hate motion controls, and I do love Prime 2 more than Prime 1, so... Same.
2>3>1, close though
Replaying this right now. Stuff about the alpha bogg hit me hard, I went through the same struggle. In hindsight it was most efficient to save after unlocking 2/3 gates, then get the third one and go down. You’re able to heal and recharge with all the fish in the chamber before the boss, and 5 super missiles take it out quite quickly, considering you can actually land them.
Metroid prime trilogy for the switch, am I right or what?
Prime Trilogy HD on Switch with options for motion-controls AND original controls. My $60 are ready.
I don't own a switch, but I think a form of hybrid controls would be a thing based on the Joycon, but it also has what is essentially a L1 button- so I can see it making visor or blaster switch easier for those who want more precision. But holy hell, Prime 3 was why I got a switch when I was 12. *Granted, a few years later I got a ps3 and didn't touch the Wii too much, not that it was a bad system, but the ps3 had Ninja Gaiden... And eventually Dark Souls.* But yeah, I want a Switch for Metroid.
I'm sure they'll do it with Prime 4 coming out in the near future
YES. Hell I would even go for them just putting the trilogy on the eshop when virtual console eventually comes out. I've been wanting to play through the trilogy again for so long but I don't have a console to play it on. well, I have it on wiiU but I have to have it ok a flash drive since sd cards apparently are useless to the system and I don't have enough storage for the game. Couple that with a dog who has a habit of eating things that jut out from the entertainment center in the living room and I ended up losing the flash drive halfway through corruption...
I would like a port of at least Prime 1&2 for 3DS
Metroid Prime 2 is hands down the best in the trilogy. People shit on it a lot for being more difficult, but the only genuinely cheap boss was the Spider Guardian... It captured the eerie and dark feeling of Super Metroid a lot better, and it even borders on survival horror. The only genuine problem other than the keyhunt they finally got right in Prime 3 is the ammo. I think it should've given MORE beam ammo if you used the opposite beam, but shooting containers with power beam should've still given you beam ammo.
People shit on it for being difficult? That's a common praise people give to it. I have always found Prime 2 to be a weak entry in the series but always thought the difficulty, bosses, and combat were one of its strongest attributes compared to Prime 1. I've played Prime 2 at least 3 times and ironically, I came to actually appreciate the beams and their ammo. It reminded me of missiles from the first Metroid and how they felt like this oh shit button you had in your back pocket to break out whenever you wanted to deal massive damage.
I remember seeing a few reviews back in 2004 that harped on it for being too difficult to enjoy compared to the first Prime (one claiming that the Spider Guardian made him vomit). It's certainly the hardest in the series and I do feel like a lot of the enemies and bosses (especially Chykka and Alpha Blogg) have too much health, hitting you like raging semi trucks in Hard mode, but it wasn't enough to seriously dampen my enjoyment.
Alpha Blogg is the cheapest by far.
@@AmineSamus I came back to this game after quite a few years break and jumped into Hard Mode instead of normal. Alpha Blogg really is tough forcing you to have perfect timing on your dash to avoid him as you try to shoot him. Definitely frustrating but after finally beating him after countless tries the satisfaction was big
@@unclebuck4828 For that fight now i just go and get the darkburst in agon, it makes it MUCH easier. Get him to half health with supers, and then use the darkburst to finish him off.
"I just died to the first mini boss?! This game is awesome!"
This was one of the hardest and most rewarding games I have ever played. So much so, I have not played it again, the spider ball guardian infected my dreams.
You got something massively wrong about the save point with the Alpha Blogg. If you go in the central pillar of the underwater section there is a boost ball launcher that sends you up to the save room.
I missed it on my first play through as well. So you could say that it was not very well communicated by the level designers. But yeah, it's still a mistake. Something that would have probably been solved by doing multiple play throughs for the review.
Actually, he isn't wrong. He notes the ball launcher briefly by indirectly mentioning it being locked off after the latch puzzle is complete. The puzzle locks off that launcher once you complete the puzzle to uncover the lower section of the underwater temple. The only way to get to the save point by that point, is by getting the Gravity Boost and beating the Alpha Blogg. This is why I always save before releasing the last latch. Because when all the latches are up. There is no way to get to the top without the Gravity Boost.
@@Foxswordsman20 But that is completely wrong... I was still able to save all the time with the boost launcher.
You can’t use that after lifting the third key; the dynamo lifts the central pillar so the launcher is blocked off, so if you don’t save before undoing the final lock, you have to redo all of the progress. This is why you need the hydro boost to get out of that basement; because the ball launcher is not an option anymkre
@@ArchetypeGotoh Yeah, I actually played through that part yesterday and I died to Alpha Blogg on hypermode difficulty... Made me redo all the progress in a rage. So I'd like to apologize.
"Unlike Samus I don't chuckle, I'd rather flex my muscles!"
Numbuh1234 Metroid & Knuckles 2: Dark chuckles
I know this is probably a reference to something I don't get... but I have to say, I'm fairly sure Samus flexes her muscles regularly.
It's a reference to a rather infamous Sonic Adventure song about Knuckles. Mainly because the lyrics are very silly. kzhead.info/sun/erFxmJaQsJupbIU/bejne.html
Knock knock it's Dark Samus
ben s Of course, and she chuckles while doing it.
I absolutely LOVE Prime 2. It might even be my favorite Metroid game in general. I remember picking up the Prime Trilogy at GameStop back in 2013 and I started playing Prime 1 immediately, but it took me until 2018 to actually beat it. Afterwards, I started Prime 2 and enjoyed it so much that I beat it in only 2 weeks, and that's only because I took a break in the middle to play Super Metroid. I'm really hoping that Prime 4, whenever it comes out, ends up taking more gameplay cues from this game.
A bit of a correction. The light suit actually let's you ride ANY beam of light. Such as, in sanctuary Fortress, I found a room with a giant light laser. I accidentally fell into it while bumbling around, and samus rode it, doing the whole cut scene. I got a missile expansion out of it too!
Yeah I think another one led to an energy tank
Complaints about "it's too brown" miss the point of _why_ Aether looks that way. One, story stuff; Aether is dying. But mainly... _it's to make Dark Aether even better._ Coming out of the wastelands into that _hellscape_ with ominously swirling skies, full of deep and intense dark colors - it makes for an _incredible and ominous contrast,_ captivating you each time you go there. Light Aether is dying... but Dark Aether wants _you_ dead.
Also only one area is really brown
Echos was always my favorite Metroid game to play myself, but prime was my favorite game ever because I used to watch my brother play it. I literly cried the first time I saw phendrana drifts just because how beautiful it was. To this day my favorite memories of my boring 31 years of like, was watching my brother play Metroid Prime.
I’ve always felt like Prime 2 suffers a bit from the awkward “follow-up” syndrome, but even as much as I like all the other games in the Metroid series, Prime 2 is probably my favorite. I’ve always felt like they improved things a lot from the first game (items are earned via bosses and the environments are more interesting instead of just being “ice/plant/fire levels”), the nitpicks of it are basically carryovers they didn’t know how to replace (the artifacts/Sky Temple keys are probably the biggest case of this, almost to the point that I’d call it a flaw more than a nitpick), and new mechanics introduced are amazing (light and dark worlds make for the experience to have so much variety, it always feels like one is exploring the dilapidated world of the Luminoths and then plumbing the deep dark depths of Ing, making emerging from that world always feel satisfying to me). I also think the lore of this game is the best of the series, as we get to slowly see the culture of the Luminoths and how the Ing represent almost an existential threat in addition to being a physical one, since they are a creeping of brutality and nihilism creeping in on this grand people. There is also the depths to which we see how recently the Luminoth battled with the Ing, and we read of the horrors they experienced in their doomed conflict. I also love how this game feels like a cap on something from the first Prime game: namely, that Samus couldn’t save the Chozo. Since the Luminoths are so much like the Chozo, Samus would feel a sort of connection to them similar to how she would the Chozo, just by association. And in Prime, Samus got to see yet another colony of the race that helped raise her and gave her the very suit she relies upon to fight with having been destroyed. Not only that, but they were slowly driven insane, many unable to even pass on without being tied as Ghosts haunting the ruins they lived in, all the while having visions of a savior, her, who didn’t come in time. The Luminoth are on the verge of this happening to them too, but Samus arrives just in time to stop it. It is so emotionally satisfying to save these people knowing how much it means to accomplish this. Finally, there are just moments in this game which are so iconic to me which barely any game has matched. To name just a few: The encounters with Dark Samus (the first and when Dark Samus kills the enemies in another room shortly before the second fight with Dark Samus are frequently mentioned, but the first fight when the two fire on each other was great as well and the standoff at the end where they raise their guns is just incredibly well orchestrated as a lead in to a final battle, especially since it is now 100% confirmed that this Dark Samus is Metroid Prime returned) Encountering the Space Pirates before the first portal to Dark Aether, only for those Pirates to be corrupted into dark forms which are more powerful (which really lets you know for certain what kind of force your up against; main antagonists of other games in the series are being warped and made even more dangerous just by possession by the Ing). The final messages from each Luminoth temple keeper, which let you know the sort of strength and courage they had in the face of certain death (I don’t know about you, but this made me so invigorated to see their mission through of protecting the remaining Luminoth from the Ing) And, of course, the finally send off as the Luminoth bow before their savor, who leaves with a final wave and walk off. Not a grand gesture, just one of recognition for the Luminoth and of the fact that her job is done. A recognition of what we, as the player, just accomplished and saved, without something overglorifying the moment. It contrasts perfectly to me with the end of Prime, where Samus looks out on the crumbling ruin of the Chozo. There’s something bittersweet as she sees the reminants of the Chozo being destroyed, but in this scene she is a hero to people who got saved by her; a race not unlike the one she was too late to save before. So when she leaves there is just the gratitude of the Luminoth, and Samus leaving with a simple wave as it was simply what she had to do for these beings.
I was gifted Prime 1 for Christmas one year, nut I was too young to appreciate it. It wasn't until a friend showed me a few years later Prime 2 that I understood how the Prime series functioned. I fell in love with the Prime series after that.
Metroid Prime 2 had the hardest bosses in the entire series. Yes, even compared to the 2d games. Anyone remember boost and spider guardians? I'm talking about the versions pre-nerf. Emperor Ing or Quadraxis weren't cakewalks either. This was one of the reasons why I adore Prime 2 so much.
Prime was a good game, but Echoes was such a massive improvement. The world is better connected, the puzzles are more plentiful and far more intricate, the boss battles are incredible, the backtracking is more reasonable, and the combat is more interesting (I like the tension and strategy of the ammo system). Not to mention the ARCHITECTURE! The artistic direction for the landscapes, objects, and structures is absolutely my favorite of any game.
Prime 3 is still my fav, and Prime 1 gets all the "maverick" points... but Prime 2's art design is so bizarre and interesting, it is wonderful to this day. Samus as a character was at her BEST here and in Prime 3 imo. She DOES have a character arc here and it is beautiful even without words, maybe even moreso without them. Bless Retro, thank god they back for Prime 4 baby!
Maybe it was the fact that I'm used to tougher games but the game was almost never a challenge for me, the spider ball guardian while frustrating at first, wasn't hard at all, I didn't die once. The only fight that was a challenge was the alpha blogg. The way it opened its mouth seemed like random to me, and I would wait for it to open just to be striked, even when it opened its mouth and I hit it. Honestly despite everything else the fights were even better than the first one and I loved that they made you think, without punishing you too much. They hit a perfect balance and I enjoyed it a lot.
Okay I have to make an apology, this was one of the best reviews I have seen. After just seeing the prime 1 review yesterday, I hated your review because I liked the game too much and said to myself "he's a 2D fanboy" and made some comments saying that all you care about is game play because it has a title of fps. I feel like shit now, after watching this video, I realized that you just like 2 much more than 1. Because I liked both games so much I was happy to see that you actually like the 3D version. I would have to still agree with the point that you like combat more because this game is more combat based than 1. But each game appeals to different people, this game is for the player that likes challenges, immersion, and a good story line and lore. 1 has much more exploration and discovery in it with beautiful and new atmospheres and sounds. both games seem to fit a different cake and actually 2 sounds more appealing to people than 1. But why did people like 1 so much more? I feel like people's nostalgia went to there head as did mine. Since prime 1 and prime 2 have the same exact engine and look and graphics, i feel like people say that prime 2 is like a ripoff of 1. Back then, the idea of having a 3D metroid was amazing and many people praised it for doing it well. So people many people didn't think much of 2 because when it came out, it was so similar to 1 that people just didn't like it as much. With prime 2, many of the popular complaints were the ammo system (which i felt you should have mentioned once in the video, but I'll get back to that), the dark world, the difficulty, and some of the bosses. In order, the ammo in prime 2 has limited people into being conservative and to putting more thought into the game play. Like you mentioned many times, in prime 1 many enemies eventually become which beam do I use and then you kill them easily. With this ammo system, it took away the thought of "Ok, I'll use this beam to kill this enemy". In 2 already there aren't many enemies that can be killed only with a specific beam, there are either dark enemies that are hurt more by light and there are light enemies more hurt by dark, but the pea shooter still works fine in both cases. With the ammo though, it limits your weapon that does more damage, so when around of a hoard of dark enemies, you can't just use the light beam, you will run out of ammo, so it makes the fight more difficult and more strategic to complete. You need to think that you should only use the light beam if I need it. This thought made the game better because you can't just plow through every enemy with the single beam, you will eventually stop that and need to focus. It's a great sense of balancing and adds more difficulty to the game. The dark world was very controversial when they made the idea, because of how it damages the player. To me, I can only think good things of it. It adds more difficulty (which I really like in a game), it adds for much more puzzle solving skills, it adds a much deeper lore to this game which can make any game great if its done right (which it is shown in prime 2), it adds for more exploration (I find this the most funny because most people that hate the dark world love prime 1 and that's a theme of the game), and it adds for more immersion. I'm not going to go in deep with these benefits but you get the point. The difficulty in a game is a preference. Some people like games that they can be good at, but others like challenges in games because it makes them feel more complete and proud for doing it. I'm not going to explain this but difficulty for me can make a game that much better because you need to work for your goals (My new favorite games at the moment are the Dark Souls's and Bloodborne). Difficulty is not a feature in prime 1 and even on hard mode i didn't die once, so there will clearly be a disagreement with people's opinion with that. Finally the bosses. Even though Prime 2 has way more great bosses, people hate much more as well. People really dislike the spider guardian fight for obvious reasons and also dislike the more challenging fights because they can't beat it. This isn't really a big topic but I still hear it a lot. Prime 2 has all the innovation prime 1 brought to Metroid, tweaked and fixed it and added new and interesting ideas into the mix. Prime 1 has different things to offer. It has more discovery, classic metroid lore that can be linked to the other games, better exploration, and better music and sounds. As you can see, prime 1 seems like the game that fits well with the genre (other than the lore factor) with more aspects than the 2D's than prime 2 does in the sense that the game is more about progression and exploration. I may be off about this but prime 2 brought the prime series's genre even farther away from the 2D series than prime 1 did. besides this, Metroid prime 1 has its "fatal flaw" as to be backtracking and I totally agree with you on this. But that is for a game play perspective. For someone that like metroid for exploring every corner and crack, doesn't care much for the combat, and mainly likes playing metroid to find 100% of the items, prime 1 is more for them. I finally realized why in 1 I could get 100% and in 2 i did not, because 1 calls for that more. If you like a game about discovering the world with a beautiful world and nice music, you would love prime 1. This is not what a metroid game is like, its a mix between great combat and exploring every corner. Metroid is more known for the exploring every corner part so that's why 1 gets more praise and love than 2. But if you think about it, 2 just seems better to play. 1 fits more into the stereotype of metroid, but 2 is just better to play. That is why 2 doesnt get as much love and can be discarded more. I've come to like your reviews and apologize for my nostalgia filling me when watching your prime entry. You do have a preference over 2 than 1 and i do too actually, but those games are made for different types of people. I re watched your prime 1 review and actually started to agree that those are totally valid points. Those points are made in perspective though and I reacted to your opinion like every person on the internet usually does. I'd like to say that I transcended my nostalgia and complete bias to watch these videos and try to make best out of your points. For a person that likes 1 for non nostalgia and just for the perspective i talked about earlier, They can find how your points for what was bad about 1 to be something they enjoyed, and the same is true for this video. For a final word, I would like to thank you for making a review and critique that took a lot of thought and made very valid points in an organized order. You say each problem and compliment as you were explaining the story, so there was a reference point made for each comment you made. It is very well structured and I give you massive props for doing a great job. I hope you will see this long message and hope you enjoy it with much thanks and regret for my misbehaviors - A gamer
Excellent comment!
I would just like to add something about prime 2. A lot of people who hated the dark world and ammo count completely missed the point in it. The damage the dark world does to you is supposed to make it feel oppressive, hostile and tense. This made its inhabitants (the Ing) feel like more of a threat, as they thrived in a world that was so hostile. It also made the dark world (and thus all the trips into it before the light suit) feel more tense. I often found my self waiting a few seconds in a light bubble before making a mad dash to the next one, so when you needed to move forward where there was no visible light bubble it made you go as fast as you could as you would know that if there was no light bubble at the end you would die. The ammo also made things more tense, if I could just spam light beam at the Ing when I went to dark aether it would have lost that tenseness and would have made the Ing look like push overs (and as a result it would have made the luminoth look like pushovers as they had a weapon that could absolutely decimate the Ing but they still lost the war). The ing are supposed to be somewhat threatening, making them easy to wipe out would have been a bad idea. In addition, it made each beam feel more balanced. In prime, you could essentially just spam plasma beam and that would kill most things unless it was an enemy you needed a certain beam to kill, in which case then you could just use a beam combo and you would be done. The only limit would be missiles but as you can find so many that never mattered. In prime 2, the ammo count makes it so you need to think before you use the sonic boom, dark burst and Sun burst. They are powerful as hell but you wont just spam them when something is in your way and you physically can't due to the ammo count.
Yea I completely agree, thanks for the add! The Dark World changed our thought about the game. We should feel threatened by the world we crash-landed on. Great submission
This right here is one of the most mature comments on KZhead.
Agreed
Wow, this has got to be the quickest growing TGC video I've ever seen, when I started the video it had like 80 views and by the time I was done it had 1.2K, congrats Josh!
Thanks a ton! Yeah, it's been fun to see all the work I've put into this channel pay off. :D
The Geek Critique It's about time that work started paying off for you :)
Noticed the same. Went from about 9 and a half when I started to 12k when I was done.
Metroid doesn't get any near as much love as it deserves and it's great to see a channel like yours helping bringing it back into the light with the likes of Samus Returns and MP4 on the way. It's what helped me discover your channel, and I look forward to what you think of the future games!
"They added a morph ball bounce by flicking the wii remote in Prime 1 and 2" *THEY DID WHAT NOW???* How tf did I finish these games without ever knowing this? All that work trying to time 2 bombs in the ground and another in the air for higher jumps wasn't necessary then? My gameplay was a lie!
Yeah I found this out by accidentally flicking my remote and said "ooo nice"🤣🤣
Ah, easy to time the bombs. I learned it in Metroid Prime 1. Made most of the "Morph Ball" segments in Prime 2 a cakewalk. There's a distinct timing to it. In Prime 1, the first place you see where you need to bomb jump has music that betrays the timing. There's some percussion that goes... "Bum............Bum Bum". That's your timing. Once you memorize the musical timing, it's easy in every Prime game. The pause between the first bomb and the second is the fuse timer of the first bomb (or close to it). You lay the second bomb a split second before the first detonates. And then in the time it takes you to plant the third bomb, you're at apex height. So, you fall down... bomb two detonates, flings you back up to apex height and bomb 3 goes off for the jump.
@@XxTaiMTxX i had no idea the music synched up with the morph ball jump timings in prime 1, that's pretty neat
Honestly it's an addition I'm not fond of. It makes a lot of puzzles way easier (most notably the ones that require a double bomb jump) and basically kills all challenge of the spider guardian fight.
The same bounce was also in Prime 3.
I'm on my third play through on my Wii U. The backtracking and progressing through the map is still mind bending! What level design! Also, the Spider Guardian isn't hard for me anymore.
I found the game difficult but never in such a way as you described that I would use a guide to get anywhere
I did but I believe I was 8 at the time so these simple puzzles now were beyond (at the time) my mental capacity
@@touriian8371 hHa same did you watch capoland videos or was that just me
Finding those sky temple keys was a bit challenging for me. Especially the artifacts in mp1.
My brother, someone I consider a true blue gamer, and a Metroid fan, he dropped Prime 2 cause he never knew what to do next 😢
@@salehivictor What about this? Maybe Echoes is just not 100%-able for you 🤔 Perhaps, you would enjoy it if you didn't grab everything. Like, it might be a more a enjoyable experience for you if you took a straight shot through the while thing? I've managed to understand this about myself and games. Even if my preferred method is 100%, some games are too daunting for me. But if I play them differently, I can find lots to like. Just a thought.
Echoes is such an underrated game. I always thought it was better than the original. Prime was good, but Prime 2 had so many interesting ideas and additions. This game is like the Twilight Princess of Metroid games. A good game but overlooked. It has flaws, but I feel like it improved so much on Prime
Majora's Mask, for me.
My dream Metroid game would have 2D platforming supervised by Mercury Steam alongside the world building and music of Retro Studios.
Best prime game by far. Beat it 100% scans and items 3 or 4 times back in the day on Gamecube. Boost ball boss still gives me nightmares all these years later.
Hey Josh and fellow geeks! Remember the two part Torizo fight from AM2R? I think Dr.M took inspiration from the two part Chykka fight. Not only is the first phase "grounded" and the second phase "in the air" so to speak, but the nail in the coffin for me is that the music he used for each phase is a remix of Chykka Larva and Chykka Adult! Coincidence???? Just something cool I noticed that I thought you would like. Btw Josh: If you read this, I want you to know that I think your content is fantastic. I love your sense of humor, and how thorough and fair you are with the material you review, regardless of how much (or little) nostalgia it might evoke. If my cousin and I ever make a game, and we might, just not for a little while, I would love to send it to you while it's in development because I know you would give it the treatment it deserves. To anyone who has read this far, I hope you have the fantastic week you deserve! Cheers! :)
as a hardcore fan who ABSOLUTELY ADORESSSSS prime 2, I appreciate that you've explained why this game (in my opinion) is leagues better than the first prime for me in a way that always escaped my tongue. i loved the lore, the pacing, the setting, style, you name it. this review was a treat! :)
29:54 The timing of the footage to the "clang" sound effect in the music is great lmao
Prime 2: Echos is such an underrated game, I still play the multiplayer with my friends sometimes!
Since the release of this video, I've been watching it several times as I just could not believe there was finally a video on Metroid Prime 2 that actually talks about its positives as well as it's negatives. It's not a perfect game like others claim Prime 1 is, but it is still something I will gladly, GLADLY play over Prime 1. Prime 1, no matter what I tried always put me to sleep. I'm not saying that in a metaphorical sense. It legitimately put me to sleep every time I've played it longer than two hours. Prime 2 however is a game I can put several hours in before I start feeling uncomfortable. When it came to the backtracking (the most unholy word ever apparently), Prime 1 always made me groan. I had to go from one land alllll the across the planet for an upgrade, then take a shortcut close to the area I used to be. In Prime 2, when I had to backtrack, the upgrades were almost always nearby. If I DID have to go back across the planet, I will most likely stumble upon an elevator that takes me BACK TO WHERE I LEFT OFF. I LOVED that. Well, to be fair for Prime 1, at least I learned some sequence breaking to grab the double jump, missiles, and charge beam way earlier than I needed to, so it cut down on the backtracking a bit. Now for the beams. Specifically Beam ammo. It's honestly not that bad. While I loved having unlimited ammo in Prime 1, it wasn't much of a drag having limited ammo in Prime 2. I almost never ran out of ammo. Mainly the Dark Beam since I never used it on Aether enemies aside from the Commandos. 90% of the time, it was all Power Beam. Even in Prime 1. It was mainly Power Beam. Until the game pretty much forced me to use the other beams to fight certain Pirates or the Metroid Prime itself. Prime 2 had about... two enemies that did that? Anyway, while it was risky to give us limited use of the beams, I'm glad Retro stuck to their guns, and gave us a more risk/reward thing. You're risking ammo to take out an enemy faster. Even then, the risk is rather small as you'll rarely run out of ammo. And even if you DO run out, you can still fire it with a charge shot. It's weaker, yeah, but it'll get the job done until you can refill it a bit. I could be here for a while with how much I thought Prime 2 did it better, but that would light the fire I probably created even further. I love Prime 1, but I will always take Prime 2 over it. Would have beaten the game twice and 100% it in Hard Mode if I didn't like it. The same could be said about Other M, but that's a different story.~ Anyway, this was awesome, man. Finally, this game gets the light it needed.
Metroid Prime 2: A link between time
Metroid prime a link to the past
These Metroid critique videos are powerful and substantial argumentation at its best. Your passion for this series inspired me to give all the 2D games a shot, given that I never did it before, I haven't had the consoles or just a PC where to run emulators for the 2D titles up until now. It's been great and it just makes me more eager to continue to follow Samus on her journey to become more honored in the industry.
Echoes is a peculiar masterpiece. It's my favorite videogame of all time, aside from Super Mario titles of course. It's fucking difficult and can be a little scary at certain moments. The most immersed I've ever been in a shooter - I describe completing the game quickly as a virtual reality experience that will seep into your nervous system. For weeks I dreamed of the circular doors and passageways. Samus' wave at the end, given the journey She just went on, is one of the greatest moments of my life...in gaming. Thank you for this excellent video.
23:06 I've always hated that door. It's a total red herring. After you get the power bomb, it coaxes you into going back into the main chamber by having two power bomb doors in a row. But there is no reason to do this at all. The only reason to return to the chamber and its ring of rooms is a missile expansion and a sky temple key, which you can't even get yet. And even if you wanted to get the missile expansion, there is already a portal in the room that has it, so there is no reason to trek through the dark world, clearing the obstacles that require the power bomb, to get there. That door should not exist, or the sky temple key in the catacombs should have been attainable once getting the power bomb, to reward those perceptive enough to know that a key is hidden in that room. tl;dr - I hate that door. Also, you can get 4 keys without the lightsuit.
You don't have to consecutively blast the 2 Power Bomb doors. Just open one and take the portal instead of blasting the 2nd PB door :P
@@ExtremeAce I know, that's what I'm saying. That second PB door serves no real purpose. Either make the sky temple key accessible after obtaining the power bombs, or remove the portal from the catacombs and make the portal in that subchamber required to reach the key. Otherwise, that door is just there to mislead players.
Every Metroid fan I've spoken with prefers Echoes over Prime 1. I don't know who it is you're around that says otherwise, but glad you got to enjoy the masterpiece of Echoes.
Jeez what Metroid fans have you spoken too. I have always been the odd one out liking 2. But this video has a bunch of 2 fans
Just everyone in my circle of friends who've played the Prime series. But what do I care, I'm the weirdo who prefers Fusion over Super. Fight me.
same actually lol The first video games i ever played was metroid fusion and metroid prime
Uh, actually among my friends I'm the only Metroid fan, so I don't get much of a chance to talk about the series outside of the internet. But as for me, I'm actually tied. I like both Prime 1 and 2 just as much but for different reasons, in a similar manner to how I like Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask equally but differently. They are nice complements to one another, picking up the slack of the other one.
I think Metroid fans generally enjoy both games, but a lot of the general public didn't enjoy Prime 2, or just didn't play it. Like how Sonic 3 & Knuckles is the fan favorite in that series, but general gamers and the media will tell you Sonic 2 is the best.
I actually have a lot of memories playing the Metroid Prime 2: Echoes Multiplayer. One that specifically comes to mind is playing on the spaceship map with my cousin and using the spider ball to camp in a spot where he couldn’t shoot me at
Was that the the level with morph ball cannons that shot you to the other side of map?
@@patricks.7951 Yep I definitely remember that in one of the maps. Man games were so much easier to enjoy back when we were kids
Thank you so, so much for this video. I have always loved Echoes and thought it a superior game to Prime 1 in nearly every regard, and it has driven me nuts, from time time of its release until today, how unreceptive most people I talk to about it have been to my perspective. Your journey through the series, with a fresh perspective, divorced from the frustratingly juvenile zeitgeist of the time against the Cube as the "kiddy console", leading to the same conclusions I'd always had about Echoes, was extremely gratifying. It is truly sad that the high point of the series was played and appreciated by so many fewer people than Prime 3, which is a convoluted mess compared to Echoes. I'm also really glad you played it with the original controls it was designed around... the reverence for the prime trilogy because it added "real fps aiming" has always seemed like nothing but ignorant nonsense, as the Prime games were carefully designed from the ground up to rely on lock-on and have the combat be about dodging and strategy, not how good one's traditional PC FPS skills are. Again, thank you so much for this video. : D : D : D
Echoes is my favorite metroid by far. Multiplayer was pretty fun and the story was great I can't think of one thing I hate about it. I was so excited the day it came out and it's one I play more often then newer generation games
I love these reviews. I feel like they're so much more acknowledging the bias of the author, and tries to see the opposite. Super well played!
Thank you! I'd never thought of it that way, but I guess in a weird way, it probably works a lot better for acknowledging either side of an issue.
I'd like to point out that the reason Prime 2 felt harder was because you played the Gamecube version, instead of the Trilogy version, like you did with Prime 1. Trilogy lowered the difficulty of 1 and 2 to the point where the highest difficulty was the equivalent of the original normal mode.
I looooove the way they set up the spider ball in this game. Almost from the beginning of the game, you see spider ball tracks all over in various places. You see them leading to doors, high places, circling rooms, behind fences, the works. It really gets you wondering what is over there. When we first played this, we even had dreams about what it would be like. Better yet, having played super metroid I had a feeling for item progression, and some of those doors that you could only get to with the spider ball, were themselves only openable by late stage items. Its like its saying "it'll *be awhile* before you can go here, but you can!" Oh and it also keeps the doors relatively obscure so you can't even get close to see what they look like! (MP2's doors were a bit more varied than MP1s when it comes to colors/effects/whatever) Like "oh my god what is that door opened by? I don't know, and I love that I don't know!" Now... it doesn't really pay off as much as you want it do, because a lot of those tracks lead to incidental upgrades that aren't exciting, and some of them aren't even real spider ball tracks, just decoration. In a way, its *over* hyped. But at the same time, if you're making a game and you *do* want to hype something exciting up, *this is how you do it right!*
Game came out 6 months before the announcement of the Wii, the GC was already entering on its twlight. Thats the reason why a lot of people dont remember it.
Before watching I have to say that this is the better Prime, is the Majora of Metroid
I totally agree with you.
Álvaro Brandón So... Is it the better game, or is it the Majora? You said two wildly different things.
mjc0961 both
mjc0961 Come off it man. You know a large contingent of people consider Majora vastly superior to Ocarina. Not saying they're right, but I am saying you also are not necessarily right.
I agree with this argument, I think it fleshes out the gameplay just like Majora more... but more for fans. or players of the game before. I think that's why the opinions are split. It's a bit weird when you play echoes as the first Metroid game ever.
Prime 2 is one of the greatest games of all time. People just missed out.
Based
Late notes: 1) use the c stick in the menu's, it will help more than you know. 2) the 9 key quest is honestly a decent way to get players to explore and experience dark aether without the time limit. 3)use the dark beam on final Dark samus when catching phazon it has a little bonus damage
...Damn. Didn't see that coming. Not that I'm complaining, mind; _Metroid Prime 2_ was as much a fixture of my adolescence as _Prime 1_ was, and while I maintain that the sheer palpability of its atmosphere and theming makes the latter the more timeless, captivating experience, it's beyond gratifying to finally see someone do this tragically overlooked sequel justice. You've outdone yourself once again, Josh. Speaking of how overlooked this game is, though, the video title kept making me think that you were gonna circle back around to the opening question of why _Metroid Prime 2_ made such a negligible impact among the wider gaming populace compared to its predecessor (especially since I listened to the _Sonic Mania_ episode of The Kongversation - and by the way, thank you so, *so much* for introducing me to that show - so I already knew that's exactly the route the _Tropical Freeze_ episode is gonna take). And since the video's already done, I guess a KZhead reply is as good an avenue as any to share your thoughts to the fine folks at home. Was it the fact that its release was sandwiched between the two unstoppable juggernauts of the shooter genre that were _Halo 2_ and _Half-Life 2?_ More generally, was it because _Halo 2_ was about to forever change the gaming landscape by cementing online multiplayer as an essential fixture of any console worth its salt, while _Half-Life 2's_ cutting-edge innovations in tech and design left _Metroid Prime 2_ in the dust as far as the immersive singleplayer epic shooter department went? Was it because _Metroid Prime_ made such a case for the viability of the Gamecube as a gaming platform to be taken seriously in its early days, whereas by the end of 2004 most people had finally just written the thing off? Or - most depressing of all to think about - was it because, in spite of everything about _Metroid Prime_ that made it such an instant classic, all of the passion and creativity and vision made manifest in that game just flat-out didn't hook gamers enough to bother giving the sequel a look-in? After all, you need look no further than _Tropical Freeze_ to see that not only can it happen, but it can happen to even the biggest franchise - and happen even when, as with 2D and 3D _Metroid_ alike in the mid-2000s, that franchise is firing on all cylinders.
Yeah, there was a part in the script where I was going to come back to that. I ultimately cut it since it seemed like quite a stretch to go ALL the way back there for one paragraph after 40-something minutes, but here's what I had in the rough draft: This effectively SOLVES the Fatal Flaw of Metroid Prime. In all the ways that matter to me, Echoes IS a superior sequel. In all the ways that matter… to me. I believe this game was overlooked due to several factors. The Gamecube was already on its last legs by 2004, and was losing fire fast. A bevy of major releases caused Echoes to be a bit lost in the shuffle. Moreover, the very innovations that the first game had brought to the industry two years earlier were much more standard by the time of the sequel. Prime was revolutionary, Prime 2 was… another immersive, impressive 3D game in on a release schedule full of ‘em, and on a system that had caught a bad rep. It didn’t stand out as much.
Oh wow, so I wound up calling all of it, ha. Thanks for taking the time to respond to me for the third time in as many days!
This must be one of the best videos about Metroid Prime 2 I've ever seen. It perfectly describes why i love the second game the most out of the trilogy. Well done!
Metroid Prime 2 is still my favorite game of all time honestly so good the vibe and everything
Ironically enough, Dark Samus is weak to the dark beam. They’re technically an entity from the light world.
One of the main critiques people have with Prime 2 is the last minute fetch-quest. Unlike Prime, where you collect the artifacts over the course of the game (you can get the first one as soon as you enter Magmoor Caverns with the Missile Launcher), Prime 2's keys are all slapped onto the ending. Couple that with the fact that you've been spending the entire game collecting keys, and it's no wonder people were kind of annoyed with this last key hunt. I disagree that the artifacts in Prime were "tacked on", also. They're just as narratively justifed and as well set-up as the keys in Prime 2. The big difference is despite the artifacts and keys being the exact same thing, functionally, the artifacts are far less annoying.
JMBoote1 the biggest complaint I’ve heard is poor difficulty balancing. I’ve barely played the trilogy (I get lost easily in metroidvania games) so I can’t say for myself
They weren't slapped at the end. You just can't see them until you get the Dark Visor.
thaneros Except for the ones you literally cannot collect before obtaining the Light Suit, the final required upgrade in the game. You need the Light Suit to travel the beams of light, where one of the keys is located, and to prevent damage from the water in the Dark World, where a few are. One of them has you waiting for so long, that not even full energy can sustain you. Several cannot be collected unless you get right to the end of the game. My issue was that there's an overabundance of key-collecting, and the game gate-keeps several of them from you. Compare that to the previous game, where you collect a set number over the course of the game, with one of them being at the place you need to be to unlock the final area, and there's only one that is improbable to collect, and it's a few rooms away from the final suit upgrade. Not in completely different areas, like in Prime 2.
JMBoote1 thats not true i had 5 of the keys before the end and
How heartfelt and spirited you are about sharing your views with others is what makes your videos what they are, man. And it's what makes your stuff so worth watching and revisiting. You keep doing you.
I had the EXACT same train of thought with the alpha blogg. I died my first attempt and said "alright I'll just hit the save station after opening those doors this time" but then I realized they block you from saving. That made my second fight attempt so much more stressful but also way more satisfying after beating it
"The dark world could have been so much more obnoxious..." You mean like in the Stone Tower Temple in Majora's Mask?
38:22 "Somebody *traveled* to the future... "I was *dreading* this game..." whoah
14:04 my thoughts exactly. Beam Ammo is one of the most controversial things about Prime 2, but I seldom had an issue with its supply, save for boss fights, but they kinda have to be damage sponges to some extent. Not to mention there's a few upgrades that increase your ammo supply, and let's be honest: if they didn't have limited ammo, we'd never use the regular Power Beam again, and eventually use the Annihilator Beam exclusively.
I loved how smaller creatures prepared u 4 mini bosses or main bosses in Prime 2, in a way that seems familiar, but still has new but similar attack patterns and different, but similar ways 2 take it down, such as the Bloggs and Splinters (obviously), the War Wasps prepare u 4 Chykka’s Adult phase, and the drone things with the detachable heads prepare u 4 Quadraxis
"they even chuckle the same way" UNLIKE SONIC I DONT CHUCKLE
I'm really glad you enjoyed this game. I love this game. The narrative and immersion in the world and war of Aether is fantastic. If it weren't for some of the needless backtracking I think it would be perfect. I hope we see the Luminoth in prime 4 somehow
A tip for the Sky Temple clues: the Luminoth keybearer’s name color in the logbook entry matches the color of the world map indicator (also the translator update received at each temple) for that section.
as some one who only ever played prime 2 as a kid on wii backwards compatibility, it was really great playing it after the fact. I loved it.
I kinda always thought my favourite metroid game was metroid prime 2 echoes because it was the first metroid game I ever played but this reminded me how good it actually is. Great video!
This video got me to try Metroid Prime again, bc I was initially turned off after playing Prime 1 and not knowing what to do. I too am playing through Echoes, alongside the other two games, and I much prefer playing Echoes, though I haven't died yet bc Trilogy difficulty. So, thank you for helping me to play a game that terrified me from playing it 5 years ago.
Metroid Prime 2: Echoes described in one word: Unique.
Smash Nippy more like: Prime 1 except worse
That's 4 words lmao. But no I think they are fairly equal, if not Echoes being slightly better in atmosphere and horror, the latter of which I wish had more prevalence in Metroid. I naturally prefer Prime as it's the one I know and played the most, but I've grown more attached to Echoes as off recent.
I wouldn't call it unique since it's one major gimmick (Light and Dark) is straight up ripped off from Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past.
Introspectre With regards to the Metroid franchise, it's the most unique game. It's the only Metroid game to feature multi-dimensional travel, while it is in Prime 3, it's only for one area, not the entire game being based around the concept. It's the only Metroid to have a species that's like the Chozo, but isn't and still be alive, by that I mean intelligence and spirituality. It's the only mainline (Yes I'm calling the Prime trilogy/quadrilogy soon mainline) Metroid game to feature Beams with ammo. It's the only Metroid game to feature a fully functional alien fortress as well as a proper swamp. It's the only mainline Metroid that doesn't feature the standard Power Suit - Varia Suit - Gravity Suit progression, the same can be said about the Beam progression. It's also the only mainline Metroid game that doesn't feature Ridley now, so lmao. There are so many things that are only found in Echoes, even troopers not even believing in Samus' existence, referring to her as something like Big Foot or Santa.
I'll give you all but two. The suit progression doesn't exist in Prime 3, so Echoes isn't the only one. (SPOILERS for Samus Returns below) And Ridley still isn't in the original Metroid 2. The remake, yes. original, no. Funny how the two games with 2 in the title don't have Ridley in them.
I played Echoes before Prime 1, and for a while it was my favorite out of the two. Now 15 years later I played them both again. Overall I think Echoes is still my favorite. It has a story I care about, epic boss battles that still scare me, and more complex combat. I still prefer some things about Prime 1. But Echoes feels more complete to me.
Honestly... I played on the original hardware with the intended controller and found it more immersive. THAN A KEYBOARD. We are talking about a Game Cube game here, not Counter Strike Source. Ahem.
I'd give you 5 up votes if I could lol.
I mean aiming with a mouse will always be better than with a joystick Movement with digital keys will only be worse during the morph ball segments
It's funny how you don't really discuss two elements of the game that I found INCREDIBLY distracting and sometimes very frustrating. The key/lock gate system that required code downloads, and the portal-hopping. Regarding the key/locks, this game, like "Fusion," straight up locks doors on you and says, "Not until we say so." One of the biggest pleasures of previous "Metroid" games to me was that you didn't feel the hand of the developer in the "soft locks" that required new abilities. A door was too high to reach. Okay, you need the Hi-Jump boots. A red door. Aha, the red-tipped missiles. There was an organic quality and intuitive sense that what you were seeing was an environment more than you were seeing a series of keys and locks (which, of course, you were). But the constant gating in "Echoes" bugged the hell out of me. "You can now open purple gates." Oh, thanks for that, Retro. I think the game would've been much better off replacing those with soft locks. "Super" and "Zero" strike a better tone, where you're learning where you can navigate through conveyance and available resources. The other issue is portal-hopping. You gloss over this, but in this game, once you defeat a boss, you have to traverse all the way back to a portal, then travel back to the light version of the temple, then endure a cinematic, and THEN you can say you've beaten the boss and achieved the reward. There are other portal-hop sequences that feel like artificial time-stretchers. One of the most notable is a room in Sanctuary where you break glass barriers and go through one portal to another, all in the same room, just to get through. It's repetitive and not terribly clever, especially when you're forced to watch those world-traversal cinematics over and over. Additionally, you don't really touch on how repetitive the art design of the Echo world is. No matter where you go, it's always the same: purple, black, red. There's almost no variation from biome to biome. Purple black red. Purple black red. A game like "Link to the Past" completely overhauls its secondary overworld with new environmental touches. A desert is now a marsh. A village is now abandoned, etc. But the Dark World is just always the same damn thing. Purple black red. Purple black red. Purple black red. Those elements are where I'd say the game fails most dramatically. I'd agree with you, for sure, that the boss fights are fantastic, epic in scope and clever in how they make use of all the abilities you've gained up to then, and ESPECIALLY agree about the satisfaction upon achieving the Light Suit. Such a great feeling. It's a very good sequel, and since you're coming from the perspective of someone who wants more action and less re-traversal, I'm sympathetic to you preferring it over the first Prime (even if I disagree and think Prime is a significantly tighter and stronger piece of work (thanks in no part to it essentially stealing the structure of "Super")). And obviously, love these reviews and the time you put into them! Congrats on such a good series of videos.
Yeah, and like, reading your criticisms, I feel for all the world like your points are perfectly valid. But the reason I glossed over them was because even if they bugged me for a second, monotonously walking from the dark temple to the light temple, or the repetitive aesthetic of the dark world, didn't do much to detract from all the things I _was_ enjoying about the game. This game is the inverse of Prime 1 in so many ways, and it's similar to how I got comments on that video from people saying things like, "I never noticed those things, but those are fair criticisms, they just didn't bother me." Something that's a "fatal flaw" to me may be someone else's minor nitpick, and may be a core part of the appeal to another person. I hope if the Trilogy gets another re-release, they find a way to make the dark/light transitions a lot snappier. I know what room you're talking about in Sanctuary, and that was pretty bad.
Regarding "soft locks," I feel like there are two different issues at work: 1). Non-linearity (the presence of alternative access methods such as wall-jumping, etc.) 2). Information, aesthetics, and user interface I believe the second issue is actually more important. In terms of non-linearity, both Super Metroid and the Prime series evince just about the same level of linearity. They both feature doors that require items before they can be opened and areas that cannot be accessed without certain items (grapple beam, gravity suit, etc.). The major difference? Wall-jumping. Super Metroid had it, the Prime series didn't, and this definitely increases the linearity in the Prime series. But I think the PERCEPTION of non-linearity is more important here; I likewise think that the perception of non-linearity is greater in Super Metroid and other 2D titles, and I think the reason is medium-dependent. Super Metroid is a 2D side-scrolling platformer, and the basic structural units of the world are raster-based blocks. Prime is a 3D first-person shooter, and the basic structural units of the world are vector-based. This difference creates a massive information discrepancy! In Super Metroid, if there was a hidden item in a room, you could usually see it even if Samus could not, because your perspective was third-person omniscient (restricted to viewing things in profile, yes, but still omniscient). Moreover: as you hunt for things, the blocks themselves provide information (information that you would otherwise have to scan for in Prime). For whatever combination of reasons (but probably due to gaming conventions established by previous titles), these are considered acceptable breaks from reality, and part of the fun of Super Metroid and other 2D side-scrollers is seeing an item that your avatar cannot directly access and thinking, "How the **** do I get there?" By contrast, Prime faced a numerous set of challenges to compared to the above: A). Your view point is restricted to what Samus can see (first-person limited, can't look through walls); this was partially mitigated by the "nearby item sound effect" and the different visors, but still a major change B). The vector-based environment meant that there was no easy way to chew through the terrain and hunt for items (have you seen what happens when you try to destroy terrain in vector-based games? The results aren't pretty), and the demand for an immersive aesthetic required a degree of verisimilitude in environmental construction. Thus, they couldn't just hide secrets behind blocks with a specific icon; they had to blend the destructible terrain in with the environment, and the environmental verisimilitude demanded a REASON for that item to be destructible. Player expectations are totally different in an immersive first-person shooter. Again, this was somewhat alleviated with the different visors. C). A 3D environment requires contiguity on three axes, not two. When building the map in Super Metroid, all you had to do was make sure your grid squares didn't overlap; building a map in Prime means you need to keep track of things in 3D space. D). In some way that I simply don't have the intelligence to understand, vector-based games HANDLE differently than raster-based games. Raster-based games tend to be more responsive because of player expectations: many of us grew up on low-frame rate systems, and we're okay with sacrificing a few animation frames for smooth movement. But a vector-based object is ALWAYS there, its position defined in 3D space relative to other objects in 3D space; all its parts have to be accounted for every time it moves, and there is no way to "cheese" a 3D object's position the way you can a sprite's position. Thus, the information provided to the player AND the non-linear options available to the player are dramatically different between 2D and 3D Metroid titles. Between the information and navigation methods available to the player in a 2D environment, 2D games simply FEEL more non-linear. Dimension-hopping is a consequence of deliberate design choices. Many games have played with light world-dark world aesthetics: Soul Reaver, Zelda: A Link to the Past, etc. That involves a certain degree of repetition and back-tracking, yes, but I'm with Geek Critique on this one: the light world-dark world mechanic broke the monotony (two zones for the price of one!), contributed ambiance, and facilitated a degree of "thinking with portals:" "Well, if I go into Dark Aether HERE, I might be able to go THERE and access Light Aether at new location." This might have actually added more branches in the exploration decision tree; if so, backtracking and reptition are a small price to pay (and Prime 2 is certainly better than Prime in that respect, as Geek Critique pointed out). Granted: the temple security gate transitions and portal transitions were quite long, but I think that might have been hardware limitations to disguise load times. Technology marches on, and I think Retro did very well with what they had.
Been meaning to write this for the longest time, but never did I don't know why haha Metroid Prime 2 is my absolute favorite game of all time. It's not perfect, it has its flaws but it's one of the most underrated gems in gaming. And this video helped me realize what things about this game hit the sweet spot for me. I'm not a native English speaker so my vocabulary isn't strong, so I never knew how to express my love for this game. But your critique nails almost everything about why exactly is this game so fascinating to me. It's a very divisive game, which is quite fitting considering duality is the core of it. But thank you so much for spreading the good word about this game for people who probably would've dismissed it as just "the other Metroid on the cube" and maybe helping someone else like me to grasp the genius of this beautifully crafted experience. Have a nice day!
I am amazed. I always hear how confusing and laborious the second one is to play, but your statements show it's the opposite (comparatively, to the first game). Glad to hear you setting the record straight. Looks like I may try this one after all.
I personally loved the first Dark Samus fight. I wish you spent more time talking about how intense it was with the destructible environment, explosions, and evolving moveset of Dark Samus. It wasn't too difficult after the first time I played it but it threw my child mind out the window. Especially since I was used to enemies cheesily exploding when I beat them it was a whole new experience seeing her retreat crippled and beaten
10:30 Oh gosh, that music gives me goosebumps. Haven't heard it in a long time now!
I jumped in to watch like 5 minutes of this before I start my homework...now the video is over. Great job man!
As a kid i got stuck on the boost guardian. I was so scared on dark aether. Awesome game, definitely a superior sequel.
This game has to be the most difficult of the trilogy. The bosses are a good challenge, the puzzles boggled me multiple times on my first playthrough which I never completed the game due to the sonic visor puzzles.
10:14 nice metal gear reference there 😂 Edit: how come nobody realised this in the comments...
I discovered your videos since a couple of days and I'm blown away by them. They're a perfect blend of a walkthrough and a critique and it's a joy to hear someone elses journey through a videogame. It's nice to hear that I'm not the only one to have had a few struggles with certain areas, enemies or bosses :D I don't know if it's correct to call Metroid Prime 2 the superior game, but it's certainly the most rewarding game out of the trilogy. I think the divisiveness it causes is due to the very slow start and pace of the game. I wouldn't call the first ten hours of the game tedious, but there are some long stretches in the game that are mediocre (and boring) at best. As mentioned in the video, it doesn't help that the environments are pretty monotonous. I think the biggest drawback is however a poor choice in game design. A Metroid game is about exploring every nook and cranny in an area and the dark world takes that concept upside down by punishing the gamer to explore this world. I know it's meant to be more challenging as an experience, but a studio has to find a balance between being challenging and game design. The dark world - certainly in the beginning - is an ominous place for all the wrong reasons. The bosses in this world are tough to say the least, but the dark world makes these battles even unfair (in the beginning). I only beat the boost guardian by a combination of perseverance, trial and error and sheer luck. But once you enter the Sanctuary Fortress, ow boy. I have encountered many regions and levels in excellent games before and since then, but there are very few - if any - that can top the game experience and joy this area brings. The game is up to full speed and the power ups are used to their full advantage including challenging bosses (such as the spider guardian - we disagree here :-) ) and excellent puzzle solving. The Sanctuary Fortress is reason enough to sit out the first 10, 15 hours of this game and enjoy some of the best gameplay ever. I remember the first time that I encountered Quadraxis I turned off my Gamecube due to being awed (and scared). I was in my twenties at the time... :D I think my personal experience differs with yours regarding some crucial scenes such as the Alpha Blogg. I had the luck to beat this mofo in one time and didn't have to redo the entire sequence. At the beginning of MP2 on the other hand I had much more difficulties regarding getting into the game and beating the (in my eyes) unfair bosses in the dark world. To sum it up: I think there are very few games that demand gamers to invest so much of their time and effort to this extent to appreciate it, but the pay-off is likewise with a very rewarding game experience that offers some of the best gameplay ever developed.
Wow, this was an amazing video. Thank you. Subbed after this and going to watch your whole metroid series. No idea if you or anyone are going to read this, but I feel inspired to share some of my own experience with the game. Metroid Prime 2: Echoes in 2004 was my first taste of metroid and I revelled in it, but never got to beat the Ing Emperor. Fast forward to 2021, lockdown and having such fond memories of the game, I started a 4k widescreen playthrough on Hard. It's been a bliss, it's been so long that I've gotten this encaptivated with a game. It aged very well, so much better than shooters, rpg's or adventures of old, because it hasn't been bettered yet on so many fronts I believe. There are few true 3D metroidvanias, and I believe none that are like Metroid Prime series. Especially played with a (GC) controller and lock-on (instead of wiimote or M+KB) keeps it further away from shooters and that in combination with those morphball gameplay. It's so weird actually, but unique and memorable because of it too. But also the artwork scales up amazingly, in every area there's something new to admire, machines that make you wonder what they do, there's always something moving, I've taken screenshots and videos that look genuinely beautiful, but more so I believe now that you can play it in HD, you can see the cool patterns and art design that has gone into some levels much better. The atmosphere, music, challenges, scan visor, lore, combat, puzzles, tactics, exploration, morph ball gameplay, platforming, etc. etc. are superb, and again, I can't think of a game that offers the same kind of combination to experience. I've completed Metroid Prime 2: Echoes on hard (100% items, 98% scans) a few weeks back and it was amazing. I can't stop thinking about it. Because it was my first taste of metroid in 2004 and also pretty much the only Metroid I've played, everything was extra magical. The Luminoth were magical to me, because I didn't know about the Chozo, the feeling of isolation too, because it was all new to me. Echoes also stands on it's own quite well in terms of story. I remember trying Prime 1 in 2005 after Echoes and it felt like going back, and I didn't get far. Now I have to admit that magic was lost for a bit, but there was still plenty left and I needn't worry. So, now I'm actually hungry for more, and I've started playing Metroid Zero Mission, not expecting much, but I'm loving it and now I feel like a kid again, anticipating all these Metroid games waiting for me. (even if I get a metroid fatigue before I get to go through all of them, I'm loving this status of anticipation that I'm currently experiencing). Oh and @The Geek Critique since you're well familiar with Metroid Prime 2: Echoes, I wish you a lot of fun when you return to this game a few years from now in the future. Attempting 100% on Hard and sticking with it is something I can recommend to alter your experience (at first you're worried because you feel enemies and bosses feel like bullet sponges, but sticking with it actually changed the tactics I was using, changing my experience, making the games' strengths even stronger (challenging, feelings of fear and dread) and making every upgrade's impact felt and worth hunting down for), but also it's weaknesses stronger (those sparse save points before some bosses? yeah..). Your familiarity with the game and level design will also diminish the challenge and boredom of backtracking greatly, I know, because even my memories of the game from 2004 greatly assisted with that. Srry for the long post, but I thought I should at least put in some effort, for the effort you've put into this video is appreciated by me a lot. Thank you.
I don't know if you never caught the hidden use of the light suit, but it is not only to ride light to temples. There are multiple locations around the Sanctuary that are hidden areas you can do it at as well.
Always liked MP2 as a kid; when I discovered the internet I was shocked to find out how divided people felt about this game. It's awesome.
"People dont talk about PRime 2" LOLWAT? Quadraxis especially is considered one of the best bosses in Metroid.
loverofjesusMKII well it’s the worst selling of the trilogy
I've never finished prime 2 because I played it at such a young age and never devoted myself to finishing it. I'm a huge metroid fan, I'm really considering getting into prime 2 again. It's always had a intriguing mystery to it for me.
I'm way late to this series...both these videos and the games. I am quickly becoming a huge fan. You did a phenomenal job all the way through. I hope you'll do dread soon.