The Wars in Ukraine and Gaza Have Changed. America’s Policy Hasn’t.
Joe Biden’s presidency has been dominated by two foreign policy crises: the wars in Ukraine and Gaza. The funding the United States has provided in those wars - billions to both Ukraine and Israel - has drawn backlash from both the right and the left. And now, as the conflicts move into new stages with no clear end game, Biden’s policies are increasingly drawing dissent from the center.
Richard Haass is an icon of the U.S. foreign policy establishment. He served as the president of the Council on Foreign Relations for 20 years and currently writes the newsletter Home & Away (richardhaass.substack.com/) . He’s recently been making the case that our foreign policy is insufficiently independent - that we’ve become captured by allies that have interests that diverge from our own. His view of this moment is a signal of larger shifts that could be coming in the U.S. foreign policy consensus.
In this conversation, we discuss why he thinks America’s current strategy on both Ukraine and Israel is untenable, what he thinks the north star for our strategy in both cases should be, the Republican Party’s 180-degree turn from internationalism to isolationism, what America’s biggest national security threat really is and more.
Mentioned:
“The Two-State Mirage (www.foreignaffairs.com/israel...) ” by Marc Lynch and Shibley Telhami
Book Recommendations:
The World That Wasn’t (www.simonandschuster.com/book...) by Benn Steil
Sparks (global.oup.com/academic/produ...) by Ian Johnson
Diplomats at War (www.upress.virginia.edu/title...) by Charles Trueheart
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-....
This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Rollin Hu. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris with Mary Marge Locker and Kate Sinclair. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing from Efim Shapiro. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Annie Galvin and Kristin Lin. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Sonia Herrero.
For the first time in KZhead history: the comments show a better understanding of the events under discussion than the actual content.
They don't dare to mention the elephant in the room - the Israel lobby steering us political system with $$$
Not the first time, the Russian tropes are routinely debunked in comments
Exactly my thoughts. We in Europe don't want US wars on our continent.
“Measured …responses to Israel” , means that Mr Hass goes back to an example of 1956….almost 70 years…
Richard , if you think the jews have PTSD as a nation and the muricans need to cater to that need, what do u think the Palestinians have as a nation ? PTSD to the square ?
Palestinians have what they have sought after and clamored for, what they have taught their children: Violence and hatred. They are in need of a serious dismantling of the structures of hate and violence, like the denazification process in Germany and democratisation of Japan post 1945. First step is a humbling experience which the Israelis are lending them now.
A self-inflicted one...
@@Thenoobestgirl It's all relative. Some might say the same abt the jews b4 the holocaust.
Hey, nowhere near the extent of Israel or Palestine, but how much PTSD have we had in the USA since the Korean War?
@@Thenoobestgirlyeah all those Palestinian babies are inflicting themselves lol
Here is a question no one seems to ever address. What if Russia was somehow able to take Alaska? What would we do? Would we be willing to cede territory? Why should we expect Ukraine not to feel the same way over Crimea? I'm not saying it's attainable right now, but why do we expect so much more from others than we do of ourselves?
Maybe if Biden took a strong stand on Gaza, he might actually look like a leader rather than a doddering old man.
He’s already publicly criticizing Bibi. I’m not sure what else he can do.
stop the guns and money@@James-ic7vx
@@James-ic7vx like stop supplying weapons used in the ongoing genocide?
too afraid of AIPAC & company...
@@jawedzAgree. I too am guided by perspective, as my uncle survived the bomb from his particle beam weapons lab below Hiroshima U, so I commiserate. Nonetheless, this is THE most qualitative, reasonable, & practical analysis of geopolitics I’ve heard in, forever. Meantime, my current response to all DNC solicitations: Dear DNC- UNCOMMITTED. Also, Support Elon Musk as historic/successful/viable/innovative/effective doer vs Mary “The Fraud/Fail/Retrograde/Useless” Barra, et al. Stop being COWARDLY/SELF-SERVING/STUPID or I'll vote Trump, just to knock some sense back into dems.
Should…..should…( wringing of hands) ……should…should….should…..(wringing hands again)….the settler political voices are getting more powerful with every “should”…..
What's really interesting is that Haas mentions Itzhak Rabin, he was assassinated by an israeli radical, and that sent a message to the israeli body politic
Great talk that totally ignores the influence of AIPAC money in Congress and the role of the military industrial complex. Any conversation that ignores these factors is lacking in credibility.
It is totally illegitimate to discuss this issue without even mentioning the Israel lobby.
To use common everyday language, Israel has infiltrated Washington DC on all sides.
Exactly how I feel . So disappointing
Ezra is part of the Israel lobby
haha clown. You realize the Izlamizt lobby is about 1000 times bigger right? Billions, from qatar alone. Grow up.
He did, you missed the nuance. This is THE most qualitative, reasonable, & practical analysis of geopolitics I’ve heard in, forever. Meantime, my current response to all DNC solicitations: Dear DNC- UNCOMMITTED. Also, Support Elon Musk as historic/successful/viable/innovative/effective doer vs Mary “The Fraud/Fail/Retrograde/Useless” Barra. Stop being COWARDLY/SELF-SERVING/STUPID or I'll vote Trump!
Such a tired argument from a supposed "expert". If you cut off Israel until Bibi is gone, you are a fool to think Gantz or anyone more moderate than Bibi would pursue the war any differently.
I agree. Israelis are committed to this war.
so all the nation are psyco. not only "bibi"
@@andresfelipeod6819 "psyco"??? God you pro-Hamas shills are truly some of the DUMBEST people on Earth...
your fanatic and ignorant answeers @@Agtsmirnoff are very predictible coming from the psychos simpatizers of this Aparhteid-TRRisST-State of Israel.
@@andresfelipeod6819 Low-IQ answer. Typical of a Hamas shill. Must be hard watching your boys in Hamas lose more and more every day. Pathetic.
“It’s a filthy rag, the New York Times”
It's the NY Times' world and you're just living in it.
@@chrisoconyI commiserate your sentiment. This is THE most qualitative, reasonable, & practical analysis of geopolitics I’ve heard in, forever. Meantime, my current response to all DNC solicitations: Dear DNC- UNCOMMITTED. Also, Support Elon Musk as historic/successful/viable/innovative/effective doer vs Mary “The Fraud/Fail/Retrograde/Useless” Barra. Stop being COWARDLY/SELF-SERVING/STUPID or I'll vote Trump!
@@chrisoconyI too am guided by perspective, as my uncle survived the bomb from his particle beam weapons lab below Hiroshima U, so I commiserate. Nonetheless, this is THE most qualitative, reasonable, & practical analysis of geopolitics I’ve heard in, forever. Meantime, my current response to all DNC solicitations: Dear DNC- UNCOMMITTED. Also, Support Elon Musk as historic/successful/viable/innovative/effective doer vs Mary “The Fraud/Fail/Retrograde/Useless” Barra, et al. Stop being COWARDLY/SELF-SERVING/STUPID or I'll vote Trump, just to knock some sense back into dems.
Rush it??? It's been 75 years of horror!! Don't make me laugh at what you say!!
Controlled “critic” seems pale when there is a Mearsheimer explaining the lobby out there lol
There is no “disconnect” except in please all the people all the times political messaging that actually pleases no one.
2 state is so done. No Yizreali will accept that now. Move on.
Don't worry
US response to Israeli illegal activities in a nutshell: Shoulda, Coulda, Woulda
This is THE most qualitative, reasonable, & practical analysis of geopolitics I’ve heard in, forever. Meantime, my current response to all DNC solicitations: Dear DNC- UNCOMMITTED. Also, Support Elon Musk as historic/successful/viable/innovative/effective doer vs Mary “The Fraud/Fail/Retrograde/Useless” Barra. Stop being COWARDLY/SELF-SERVING/STUPID or I'll vote Trump, just to knock some sense back into dems.
What about the post traumatic stress that Palestinians will have now? Why wouldn’t they expect to have the right to defend themselves as well? Who could blame them?
The Palestinians are in this situation because of October 7th. It could stop today if they would hand the hostages over. That is the only reason this conflict is continuing.
Israeli was bombing and starving Gazans and murdering West Bank citizens well before October 7th, Hamas just accelerated it but this is squarely Israelis responsibility, Netanyahu literally funded Hamas for two decades to accelerate it, literally admitting to it every step of the way (you can find videos from 2004-2019 of him saying we need to fund Hamas more to split Palestine), Hamas has nonetheless offered the hostages for a permanent ceasefire many times and been rejected by Israel every time because they don’t care about hostages, they want to destroy Palestine, most Israel offers Hamas for hostages is 6 weeks of ceasefire, that of course means they’re gonna resume the genocide when those weeks expire, why would Hamas take that deal?
You can't claim self-defense when you're the one that started the fight
@@ThisisKyle Can't claim self defense when you ethnically cleanse Palestinians for 75 years.
@@FrontLinePub This started 75 years ago when the Israels started ethnically cleansing Palestinians, which started with the 1948 genocide.
What is an American politician? The BEST liars that can falsely garner a vote without detection. That is the problem with the AMERICAN GOVERNING SYSTEM - it is the best liars that rise to the top. DEMOCRACTS make great liars. Look at Biden!! Here is a bridge port and some air dropped bread....here is a sh!tload of b()mbs!!
As long as the Netanyahu government is in control, nothing will change. Netanyahu and his cohorts will be unwilling to change their stance. Their psychology is fixed. Essentially the Israeli government is using a scorched earth stategy in Gaza.The US government needs to be able to adjust it's interactions towards the current Israeli government.
Yes, but that will not bring about peace until the other side comes to the table in good, honest faith instead of using violence.
Thank you for the video!
The pod begins by drawing a parallel between the war in Gaza and Ukraine, saying that both attacks were unjustified. I'm surprised to hear this oversimplification from such a thoughtful speaker on this topic. Klein overlooks the decades of illegal occupations and settlements, which is where this conflict begins. To claim to understand the conflict without trying to at least understand Hamas' grievances is a non starter. The war did not begin on Oct. 7. It began with the illegal occupations and settlements, which are ongoing, because we continue to hide Israel's brutal, illegal colonization under the rug.
Ezra Klein - on the Ukraine war, I think we need to step to a broader level of analysis. The administration & NATO need a clear policy towards Russia. The policy towards Ukraine needs to complement this strategy. Putin has said very clearly that he plans to challenge the west and believes western democracies are weak and getting weaker. Our political deadlock on aid to Ukraine is making many nations that depend on agreements with the US for security very worried.
💯. And it invites Putin etc to think they should start carving up the world as they want.
well, this Mr. Putin is right, western pseudo-democracies are weaker everyday, this failure of "project ucraine" is the biggest proof of that. perhaps NATO is warmonguering, and must dissapear.
Missed opportunity to say "not throw bibi out with the bathwater"
The audio is messed up. It speeds up in some parts and then slows down in other parts.
How about naming all of those who are profiteering from the Ukraine war? Where is all that money really going? And where does the biggest company in the world, BlackRock, fit in? Who actually owns BlackRock? What happened to real journalism? Questions, questions...
It is different than American diplomats who are naive compare with Russians who were created in 1917 and never changed 35:48 . NKVD, KGB and now FSB. They have hundred thousand members who are educated, they know diplomacy which they study in special Universities and other strategies how to fight the West.
I'm inclined to believe it's because we have a geriatric head of state who's incapable of adjusting his worldview
“Understandable but perhaps counterproductive” has to be the most sociopathic description of genocide in history 😮
44:07 Corporate Welfare Entitlement 46:33 Repeating Doublespeak Have you even looked at Biden's list of accomplishments? Belabored Libertarian talking points are tiring
Actually, the biggest “foreign policy crisis” that Biden is facing is the Western Hemisphere North’s inability to facilitate “management” of the wholesome human aspirations of those living below its southern border. Economic crises revolving around global south’s commodity-based economies are nothing new.
The answer is the United States government is run by fools without vision. The Ukrainians and Israelis, on the other hand, know damn well what they are doing. The Ukrainians, in particular have a clear vision, and they have not succeeded, BECAUSE of the United States' failure to do what is in the United States' own interest! Biden needs to grow stones, and do what is necessary. The solution is simple. The Jewish government has also articulated their goals, and their actions are in line with those goals. This is NOT a crossword puzzle. There is no "solution", as much as that fact contradicts American thought and psychology. We sure "solved" the problem of women in Afghanistan, didn't we. We sure solved the problem of "democracy" in Iraq, didn't we. If you were an Israeli, would you trust American "problem solving" skills? As President Johnson once said, "When you have them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow". Look, Biden can condemn Israel every day if he wants. However, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, the UAE, Jordan, and everyone of our "allies" is watching. They know that America is strong. That isn't the problem. They want to know if America is trustworthy. Can they count on America? They may condemn Israel every day, but the LAST thing they want to see is America failing to do whatever is necessary to support and defend Israel. If Biden does that, it's over. There will be no allies for America anywhere in the world. It simply doesn't matter how strong you are, if no one can trust you. Period. And that is the "solution" to the puzzle. Perhaps Israel can't win, but America sure as hell can LOSE.
Americans "winning" in Gaza in support of Israel will simply create more chances for America to "lose" more in the future and lose by a bigger margin because Americans are not gaining anything out of these "allies". Israel is a sinkhole for dollars. Arab states are a sinkholes for dollars. These states are not fulfilling the primary obejctive of the alliance which is to keep Iran in check. Israel is lobbying in the US to invade Iran and to solve the Palestinian question for it. The Arab states are lobbying in the US to give them a a defense pact against Iran and crack down harder on the dissent within their own borders. If the US is meant to subsidize their security and put in work to ensure their existence and then further fight their wars for them, what is the need for an alliance in the first place? What advantage, material or otherwise, does the alliance with the Arab states and Israel give the Americans?
I know that WW2 and the advent of nuclear weapons utterly changed the complexion of USA’s perceived role in the world, but it is worth noting that in 1941 before Pearl Harbor, Roosevelt had to fight tooth and nail to create the legal platform for Great Britain to purchase arms from the US on credit. To lay the necessary political groundwork, US negotiators forced Great Britain to sell…actually it was the private owners, Courtaulds…their largest US-based industrial holding, American Viscose just to prove to the American electorate that we weren’t simply propping up that snobby “British Empire” again. Of course, a fair amount of German rearmament, which actually started during the Weimar Republic was financed through loans from US banks.
“But I cannot see President Zelensky surviving this episode. I cannot see him surviving the inevitable outcome of this war, which is to accept, ironically, exactly what was on offer from Russia on February 23, 2022: armed neutrality, Donbas remaining nominally independent, Crimea annexed to Russia, and no relationship between Ukraine and NATO or Ukraine and the European Union. And that, I think, if I can switch gears a little bit and talk about the tragedy of international relations, is the true tragedy of this. All of this death, all of this destruction, all of this displacement is going to result in a political outcome that was available to all parties on February 23 of this year. And if that is not a tragedy, I do not know what is.” Andrew Lapham June, 2022
Our policy isn’t working? What a lightweight.
Nailed it.
“A post…post Putin”…20:years?.. 20 years?
Putin will probably out live the state of Israel
he is 71 years old. So I don't think it will take much more than 10 years for him to lose power one way or another. But hey who knows he could make it to 90 I guess.
Patience grasshopper. Patience and fortitude. Russia's war against Ukraine started with Tsar Catherine. We the West won the Crimean war in the late 19th century against Russia. This isn't an overnight event.
You could say that about every event in history. 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂
@joythought )lol, the longer term forces of global politics are moving against the West. Despite shitlibs' need to personalize their hatred of Russia in Putin, his replacement isn't going to kneel to the West like they think. The West's ability to enact regime change in sovereign nations is over, the global majority is done accepting the fiction of our moral authority over them.
I live in eastern Europe, about 400 km or a little bit less than 400 km from the border with the UA. You live on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean. We do not need your bla bla.
To me richard haass is living and thinking like back in the president bush days....he is not modern day reality ...he is dreaming
Where is Legio X Equestris ?Amazing how nothing has changed in 2.000 yrs !
Wrong. If West had given Ukr what it needed BEFORE the west allowed the Rs to build massive defenses, the war would be over by now
Agreed
Deleting comments not friendly to Israel ?
We. Call that freedom of speech If you say anything negative about Iran or China or anyone not friendly to Israel you will be blocked I start to realize we really democracy in word only
Richard Haass assumes that Ukraine is headed towards stalemate this year. This is wrong, if we don't support Ukraine they are going to lose.
Why will Ukraine win without Ukraine soldiers? NATO in Ukraine? Stop and negotiate sooner the better!...
Ezra this new chapter of yours in incredible… thank you for taking up the uncomfortable.
As politely suggested by Klein, the suggestion of Haas that Biden can usefully go over the head of Netanyahu and speak to the Knesset is absurd. 78% of the Israeli public is fully in support of the actual conduct of the IDF war on Gaza. If Biden were to say to the Knesset what actually needs to be said, he would be booed of the dais. An alternative mealy mouthed presentation would be a humiliation and do harm in multiple ways.
America sends 30 tanks and 10atacms and then says no, it aint gonna work. What a weak and phathetic stand to take. Ukraine will win, just needs sustained bit stronger help.
Given all of the options discussed, using only words is telling.
Ezra I appreciate and respect your interviewing efforts on this issue, more importantly I can appreciate how much insight and empathy you yourself have gained… your guest however indeed has tired and rhetorical answers , clearly no empathy, and seems tone deaf and stuck in the past , he couldn’t even be bothered to consider the excellent points you put forward
We need to stop our financial aid to this rich country that spurns our interest
Israelis worked very hard to become this successful. We came from nothing and we made this country into one of the most successful in the world. Meanwhile, the Palestinians built nothing and did nothing to help themselves, always taking whatever they could get from other countries and prioritizing those handout resources to destroy what Israelis have spent 75 years building.
As Ukraine has seen, US is a fickle ally. Israel better fully appreciate that the DEI generation is around the corner from power in US.
@@justmyopinion9883 DEI is a view of world of oppressor and oppressed. and many on the left see Israel as the oppressor. ( I do not agree but it is being taught at our schools and universities.)
If which Klein is the poster child 😂
@@justmyopinion9883 Backwards violent Islamic jihadist extremists vs. relative modern liberal democracy (albeit growing increasingly religious and illiberal)
@@whatsdoin2392how is israel not the oppressor if I may ask? Please give me some pointers if possible?
@@AgtsmirnoffPLO/Fatah which governs the west bank is secular? Hamas started in 1987 and only got a semblance of power in 2005. PLO is secular and has been active since 1960s so just labelling Palestinians as Islamic jihadists is false. To Jews Israel is democratic to it's minorities and Palestinians in occupied territories it's a colonists.
Excellent interview
A sterling discussion.
Ezra, I’m listening to you, do you have any loyalty to America. If you want to second guess. Why don’t you do it in private? Have you ever taken an oath to the constitution, have you served in the military?
New York Times n Neutral, don't know.....?
"Russia's GDP is 25% of the US GDP. If the US gave the US weapons we are presently paying to destroy because they are "expired" to Ukraine, It could win". -Timothy Snyder Historian. What an asset lost, to lose Ukraine's strategic benefits. Does vindictive leadership look good on us? -Vote
This talk has been really good. Props for getting this in the mainstream!
💜
Interesting perspective ❤😊
It does matter how the Israelis feel about a Palestinian state they have no right to block the self-determination of the Palestinian people. Rights are not conditional. Why do the Palestinians have to prove that they have the right to a state? Why does Israel get to chose what kind of state it is? It's for the Palestinians to chose if there state is demilitarized and who there allies will be. Why do they have to meet certain conditions, but no conditions are put on the Israelis. The Palestinians are the ones being killed daily and in huge numbers. The Palestinians are stateless and defenseless, but for some reason, the onus is on them to show the Israelis they won't hurt them. Did black South Africans have to guarantee the safety of the white minority before apartheid ended? If the Israelis treated the Palestinians generously and compassionately, then they would have nothing to fear, but they know how badly they've treated the Palestinians so they are scared. That fear is not the Palestinians' problem. Israel has thousands of tanks, hundreds of fighter jets, a highly sophisticated intelligence service, hundreds of thousands of soldiers, huge amounts of ammunition, and nuclear weapons. Their safety is not in doubt. The Palestinians don't have to prove anything. The responsibility is on Israel to end their illegal occupation and it's immoral control and abuse of the Palestinian people.
Oh honey, you're trying to wrap your Upper East Side mind around an Old Testament mindset. Back to brunch!
Israel absolutely can and will block the founding of a Palestinian state - and that fault sits with Hamas and the Palestinian people as much as it does with Israel. Gaza is the great example that is cited in Israel as the reason for not supporting it. Gaza was the great chance for the Palestinian Arabs to demonstrate a peaceful coexistence with Israel - the test case. And instead of taking the tens of billions to build a Singapore, it was turned into a rocket factory. . . It was such a massive frailer on the part of the UN and the International community to have focused on making that a success. . . Israel has fought a successive series of wars over the past 90 years that have been designed to exterminate them - and if you listened to the chants being called out in London or LA - then the existential threat to Israel and the the Jew is very real. You can imagine what is being said in Arab capitals. . . More Jews are leaving the UK now more than ever because they are being assaulted for being Jewish - and they are going to Israel. So the position in Israel has hardened. The more you protest, the more Israel feels threatened. If you really think the Palestinians are the victims, then I recommend you at least try to understand Israel's worldview - you can disagree ofc - but a lot of people are very understudied in this topic. The real tragedy of Oct.7th is that those people who were raped, beheaded, and tortured were the last remnants of the two-state compassionate left that existed in Israel. In the late 90s, most of Israel had a lot of faith in the two-state and peaceful coexistence narrative. Lots of Israeli - Palestinian exchange programs were going on. But after Arafat walked away from the 2008 peace deal (98% of everything and East Jerusalem) and the 2nd Intifada kicked off - Israeli society understood that there was no interest in a two-state solution, but rather that it was what it originally was - that the Jew needed to be expelled and Israel destroyed. Those people next to Gaza were the only ones who still voted for left-wing Israel - they invited Gaza residents into their homes and were teaching their kids that these were their neighbors. During Oct. 7th there was a lot of Hamas intelligence collected with detailed maps and lists of names from those Gaza residents. . . some of them were part of the Oct.7th attacks. So not only did Oct.7th shock Israel, but the actual victims of Oct.7 were the last real supporters of the two-state. Now the right in Israel has grown stronger - and the two state is dead in Israel. If you made it this far - then let me address your last line. The thousands of tanks (not quite thousands) and hundreds of fighter jets and sophisticated intelligence did not prevent Oct.7. . . That's why the two-state is dead. . . because no one can guarantee peace. I could go on and on here - and while it may seem like I am taking sides - I am actually neutral on this (a hard position to take these days. . . much like US politics) but I really recommend Americans who have no skin in the game - to try to understand the Israeli position and the history there. If peace is the desired outcome, and a two-state is the outcome - then you cannot take a side - you have to find a path for both sides with all their emotions. If you take a side, and talk about international law and occupation and moral equivalency. . .then that will just fall on deaf ears in Israel. It may make you feel righteous - but it will not change the situation on the ground.
The Israeli government is drunk on US military aid and is bringing about its own destruction
"Why do they have to meet certain conditions, but no conditions are put on the Israelis" Because they've shown that, if left to their own devices, they will opt for radical Jihadist extremists whose #1 aim is to kill all Jews and destroy Israel. Seems like a pretty obvious answer if you have half a brain.
100% true. In a perfect, rationale,not racist,moral etc world what you've rightly stated is the basis of what is supposed to happen. Sadly it's hypocritical and a double standard world where some are more than others!
To all you couch warriors who wants the US more involved in Ukraine and other places have you forgot about atomic weapons go study the effect of those you used in Japan
Nuclear threats are meaningless. MAD is still in effect and cowering to a murderers threats will only bring more.
@@BadOompaloompa79 yes untill they happen
@@prebenso And how do you keep them from happening? Let any petty dictator with a stockpile invade whoever he wants? Will that reduce nuclear risk? Will letting Putin slaughter Ukrainians more easily because he threatened nukes again keep him from testing article 5 in the Baltics ?
@@BadOompaloompa79 My uncle survived the bomb from his particle beam weapons lab below Hiroshima U, so I commiserate. This is THE most qualitative, reasonable, & practical analysis of geopolitics I’ve heard in, forever. Meantime, my current response to all DNC solicitations: Dear DNC- UNCOMMITTED. Also, Support Elon Musk as historic/successful/viable/innovative/effective doer vs Mary “The Fraud/Fail/Retrograde/Useless” Barra, et al. Stop being COWARDLY/SELF-SERVING/STUPID or I'll vote Trump, just to knock some sense back into dems.
I am concerned about the discussion of Ukraine in terms of expending money on a conflict that Ukraine can't win. If we believe that the conflict is unwinnable (which I do), the real cost is the loss of human life. The loss isn't immediately in terms of American lives, but the Russian and Ukrainian lives are real human lives, and this will come back to bite use later.
You clearly don't believe Russia is a threat. If the eastern coalition succeeds in developing a new world order, then country borders could be disputed by force. Casualty figures in the tens of thousands per year per country would become just normal loses, like it was before the United Nations. Maybe governments are just better and nicer than they were in the 1920's or 1940's. That's a big bet.
@@mikeunger4165 I do believe that Russia is a threat. Believing that Russia is a threat is not a justification for sticking with a Ukraine policy that probably won't lead to threat mitigation.
@@johnkolassa1645 Don't call something a threat in the same sentence where you advocate appeasement. Your stance is to allow Russia to conquer allies without even trying to help them. Because Russia might win anyway. Own it.
@@johnkolassa1645 My response was too harsh. Your position is not unusual it is normal to try to avoid conflict. It is just that avoiding a proxy war is likely to result in a war that isn't proxy.
@@johnkolassa1645”threat migration” is your brain trying to remind you that Putin’s policies of urban destruction, creating and herding refugees into the west to destabilize and threaten liberal democracies (as exemplified by domestic politics in Germany, the U.S. , and Hungary as well as others in the former Eastern Bloc) is part of his global war against western influence. He won’t stop if appeased because he hopes to restore hegemony over the former USSR and regain parity or dominance against the declining West. If Ukraine loses, it will be over time by successive sacrifices of its territory and sovereignty. This is preventable with strong and timely Western and U.S. support, but not by dithering and timidity as you suggest. You would surrender to the military and diplomatic divide and conquer strategy of Putin’s Russia.
One of the most interesting interviews I have heard for awhile. Enlightening…
In spite of its artificiality, the state of Israel could have been viable if it had gone to great lengths to make up for confiscated land and become a center of benefit to the region as a whole. If the nation had done that, in spite of its inauspicious beginnings, the surrounding countries would have demanded that Israel remain, and would have celebrated its presence. However, Israel failed to implement such a perspective. No nation has an unalienable right to exist. Nations are allowed to exist because they overcome the criticisms of the rest of the world and provide an unmistakable benefit to humanity,
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 00:24 *🌐 The Biden administration faces challenges in managing foreign policy crises, specifically Russia's invasion of Ukraine and the conflict between Israel and Hamas in Gaza.* 01:47 *🇺🇸 Biden encounters criticism for his handling of both Ukraine and Israel issues, leading to domestic political challenges and a growing divide among Americans.* 02:57 *🌍 Richard Haass suggests that U.S. foreign policy lacks independence, being too influenced by allies like Israel, and urges a shift in strategy.* 03:39 *📜 Netanyahu's proposal for post-Gaza invasion indicates a potential open-ended military occupation, raising concerns within the Biden administration.* 05:17 *🇺🇸 U.S. and Israel differ in their perspectives on the conflicts, with the Biden administration quietly critical of Israel's actions but lacking a decisive alternative approach.* 06:30 *⚖️ Haass suggests the need for a more independent U.S. policy, including potential economic measures like tariffs on goods from occupied territories.* 10:14 *🇮🇱 Debate on arms supply to Israel; Haass supports maintaining military help but advocates for restrictions on usage, especially in densely populated areas.* 13:43 *🌐 Biden administration's reluctance to exert leverage on Israel stems from generational differences in perspectives on the U.S.-Israel relationship.* 15:08 *🗣️ Haass recommends Biden delivering a speech addressing Israelis, empathizing with their concerns, critiquing current policies, and presenting an alternative path.* 17:53 *🌎 Growing concern over the impact of U.S. support for Israel on its global standing, as it is perceived as uncritical in certain situations, damaging America's reputation.* 20:24 *🇮🇱 Israel's demographic and policy shifts have been overlooked by many, with an outdated view persisting among Americans, especially American Jews.* 22:11 *🤔 BB Netanyahu is criticized for not challenging public opinion and failing the leadership test by following rather than guiding public sentiment after the October 7th events.* 23:36 *🇺🇸 The argument against accepting the current one-state reality, emphasizing the need for a two-state solution, is presented. The focus should be on reviving the two-state approach rather than accepting a one-state non-solution.* 26:23 *⚖️ Calls for more balanced standards in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, highlighting the need for behavioral approaches that address the actions of both sides rather than solely focusing on conditions imposed on Palestinians.* 28:40 *🇷🇺 Ukraine's handling of Russia's invasion is discussed, acknowledging both positive aspects like holding its own militarily and negative consequences such as the economic toll and recent shifts on the battlefield.* 31:15 *🎯 Republican divisions on Ukraine policy are highlighted, with isolationist sentiments, geographic focus concerns, and skepticism about Ukraine's definition of success being among the reasons for opposing continued support.* 34:28 *🤝 The dilemma of supporting Ukraine while potentially holding a different view on the achievability of its goals is discussed. The need for a more realistic policy approach that aligns with both American and Ukrainian interests is emphasized.* 38:38 *🤨 Critique of the Biden Administration's Ukraine policy is presented, suggesting a lack of willingness to have an honest conversation about the limitations of Ukraine's military objectives and the need for a more independent path.* 39:31 *🤔 Concerns about the Republican party's conflicting stances on Russia, with high-minded arguments for Ukraine aid clashing with instances of support for Russian interests, particularly evident in media figures and political strategies.* 40:26 *🌐 The discussion highlights the complexity of the Republican stance on aiding Ukraine, involving a mix of Neo-isolationism, Trump's influence, and a fascination with Putin's Russia.* 41:33 *🗳️ Republican arguments against aiding Ukraine seem driven more by domestic politics than a genuine foreign policy stance, lacking a nuanced approach to resource allocation.* 44:30 *🌐 The foreign policy conversation in the U.S. is currently confusing and opaque, with both Republicans and Democrats struggling to articulate a clear stance on various global issues.* 46:33 *🇮🇱 The Biden Administration's cautious approach towards Israel may gradually shift towards a more independent American foreign policy, distancing from an exclusive focus on persuading Israel.* 47:01 *🇺🇦 The administration realized Zelensky's military goals in Ukraine were unrealistic, leading them to support a more defensive strategy. Diplomacy is expected, but the negotiation position's strength remains uncertain.* 49:28 *🔄 The administration appears stuck in an initial phase of crisis response, akin to the earlier stages of COVID politics, struggling to transition to a more nuanced and adjusted policy.* 50:25 *🚧 The administration faces challenges on issues like immigration and the border due to the failure of certain policies, leading to a need for adjustment and potential bipartisan compromise.* 56:55 *🔄 Biden's challenge is projecting stability amid various crises, and his age may contribute to perceptions of inadequacy. The upcoming election could hinge on which candidate is trusted to bring stability.* 58:46 *⚖️ Trump's potential strategy lies in portraying himself as a strong, decisive leader who can address real problems, even if it means sacrificing certain democratic rights for the sake of order.* 01:00:24 *📘 The first recommended book, "The Haunted Wood" by Allen Weinstein and Alexander Vassiliev, explores the extraordinary scenario of a pro-Soviet sympathizer being close to the presidency and delves into the political implications.* 01:00:39 *📚 Ian Johnson's "Sparks" sheds light on the courageous Chinese historians battling against the party's narrative, revealing how the struggle for history is intertwined with present and future political agendas.* 01:01:33 *🌐 "Diplomats at War" by Charles Truart, a recently published book, explores the friendship and betrayal of two diplomats who served at the American Embassy in Saigon during the early 60s, providing insights on the brink of the Vietnam conflict.* Made with HARPA AI
Bad bot
What about the trauma of the Palestinian people? Don't we continue to discount the imposition of European Jews on their land? How do we not see this as immoral after years of the failure of this situation and the lack of justice for Palestinians?
A Godfather of the Quraish speaks!
I cannot believe how sane and reasonable the 'old' republicans sound, compared to what comes from that party nowadays.
Unprovoked aggression?!? Ate you kidding?!?
Are you referring to Russia's unprovoked illegal invasion of Ukraine or the unprovoked attack and murder of over a thousand Israeli civilians or the provoked response by the IDF?
@@joythought Neither of them was unprovoked.
It's clownish how these people are the "reasonable liberals", still utterly disconnected from the nature of American foreign policy.
Ezra, have you ever been punched in the face?
IF Ukraine is forced to give up territory (remember that the USA/UK/Russia agreed on the borders, including Crimea when all signed the Budapest Memorandum) they should be a member of both the EU and NATO--Ukraine has made massive sacrifices to reject Putinism on their land, they deserve real security assurances not a paper tiger like the Budapest Memorandum.
That memorandum was void when the democratically elected government and constitutional order was overthrown by a Western backed coup.
Joe Biden is Joe Biden, lead 😅on!
I really enjoyed this interview, always been a fan of Richard Haas. My only problem though, is that I think Ezra should’ve pushed him more on why we must support Israel at all. They are more of a strategic liability than an asset nowadays. Anyways great interview.
As someone solidly on the anti-nation state left, I am serenely content with seeing zero money go to either Israel, Ukraine, or the southern border.
Good thing nobody cares
Giving zero dollars to Ukraine will only empower one of the most nationalists nation states in the world right now, Putin’s Russia. As for Israel. If the US cut their ties with Israel. It will lose anything that is tethering it from being a fascist nuclear pariah state where many of the population believe in doomsday. As for the southern border I agree that the issue is being used by nationalists within the US. However I do think that a stable and prosperous central and south America will be good for the world overall.
Neither war has changed at all. Thankfully our bloodlust seems to be lessening.
Its easy: israel isnt our client state, we are israel's client state.
I’m Ukrainian living in Ukraine. I don’t know much about Israel, but I agree 100% with everything your guest said about Ukraine. And the majority of people here would agree.
Lots of things the US could do but won't do until this coming election is settled. At the moment the President is hamstrung by concerns about the possibility of loosing the Presidency an having Congress go totally Republican. Our foreign policy is dependent on our internal politics.
What a witless and cowardly excuse! Of course, one can expect nothing different from anyone that could support a witless and cowardly puppet like Joe Biden.
In fact, the most clever thing you are trying to offer is to surrender to the murderousness of the Russian dictatorship and the Nazi barbarism of Hamas terrorism. Too bad! Those who pity the cruel are cruel to the merciful! If the United States also succumbs to Nazi terror, where will the world end up? Remember that the West also wanted to appease the Nazis and how it ended, I hope you remember! If you maintain purity and do not want to enter the defense of justice, at least do not interfere and help financially and conscientiously!
What see re we complicit in? Klein, why don’t you try patriotism.
Wasn’t Gaza a second state in a 2 state solution pre oct 7. ?
Clearly NOT since it did not have control of its own borders and EEZ waters plus it was not recognised by Israel or any other country.
The one denominator is the United States of America. Without funding neither Ukraine Russia war would continue. Warfare is big money, we seem to disregard the human lost of life and the destruction of war. Israel Hamas war is no different; again remove the money being made and the war end, sooner or later Israel will have to realize the Palestinians people have the same rights as every people have to be self governing. ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
This what a completely predictable discussion. How dull. Zzzzz
Haas is an appeaser! What does he think the world look like under Allah?
Two Jews discussing Jewish State vs Palestinian State. Can anyone believe NYT would allow 2 Palestinian Americans doing this on their platform?
Both caused by america And maintain ed by us
Why do WE as America believe we have the right to tell other nations when and how they can defend themselves? America is the ONLY country in the world that continues to launch drone strikes across more than a dozen countries around the world. No one is telling America to stop or force America to stop.
The Ukrainian war is a very complex affair. Europe is once more in turmoil and many European administrations are very worried. Had Putrid's plans succeeded as he had hoped, then the country called Ukraine would by now not exist. Worse, he would have made his second conquest, taking Moldova, and would likely have engaged in mission against a NATO member state, probably Estonia. Trumps, had he been reelected, anti NATO stance, coupled with the general isolationism of the republican party would have been putins touchpaper to directly challenge article five of the NATO treaty. So, we in Europe cannot afford the luxury of holding long sitting room conversations about possible outcomes and negotiated settlements which would give ground to putin. The full scale invasion of Ukraine, following over eight years of skirmishes, following the invasion and annexation of Crimea, very definitely has been Europe's Pearl Harbour moment. We in Europe are now aware that regardless of the outcome of the next US presidential election, we must be capable of robustly defending ourselves. Some EU members governments were taken by surprise by the Russian assault, but the former iron curtain countries were not surprised at all. They've been waiting for something like this to happen, hence their rush to join the protective umbrella of NATO some years ago. If putin gains even the smallest of victories he, or his successor will be encouraged to engage in further adventures. Imagine the political clout a Russian leader would wield if they had control of Ukrainian grain exports added to their own. The weaponisation of food would reach new highs and thus Russian influence on other continents would increase considerably. On the newsfeeds today, in the light of the dreadful conduct of IDF in Gaza, incidentally fuelled by copious amounts of US equipment and ordinance, the Russia/Ukrainian war has almost been forgotten. It's something we can ill afford to forget, either in Europe or the US.
Russia already won.
The attack on Ukraine was illegal but I don't think it is fair to call it "unprovoced". CIA director Bill Burns, back then ambassador in Russia, made it repeatedly clear that pursuing a Nato membership for Ukraine will provoce a major conflict with Russia. Interesting conversation though. I can agree with many things Mr Haass says, especially that policies that are disconnected from reality are extremely dangerous.
False. Putin keeps telling you why he has invaded Ukraine. He believes that Russia is historically entitled. Why would you insist on making it all about you?
How can one trust ezra when he was so bad faith, and vindictive with sam harris?? Terrible journalist, one really showing why the media is so distrusted in this climate. Sad
I just wasted a good hour of my life listening to this
Pure hasbara propaganda
You guys are insufferable. The world knows. The world sees.