Helmets: The Great Bascinet
2015 ж. 20 Қар.
92 811 Рет қаралды
In this video we take a look at a subset of the bascinet family of helmets; the great bascinet.
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#medievalarmor #livinghistory #greatbascinet
Notice that in all of the images where mail Aventails and plate aventails are in the same scene, the guys in plate are winning. Some advertising perhaps?
in manuscripts, the antagonist "bad guys" are often shown wearing slightly older, more out dated armor while the protagonist "good guys" are often shown wearing state of the art protection. Just like modern times, action movies show good guys are wearing super high tech equipment and modern ballistic plates carriers and holding customized tacticool rifles while the bad guys are wearing cold war era soviet gear holding old wooden AK 47s.
@@DragunovSniperEliteThat goes with any historical imagery archeologists dig up and history books themselves. History is written by the winner and everyone loves an easy win.
@@JETWTF Everyone loves an easy win? Every single Anime/Cartoon/Action movie I've ever watched had the no backbone underdog pussy MC trope. In fact, I think I can count the series with "easy wins" for the protagonists with one hand.
*this painting was brought to you by the armorers' guild*
@@somberflight every show you watched has a no backbone pussy underdog mc?
I actaully love the look of this helmet.
Has someone said you shouldn't?
I did.
We need a gif made of the nodding comparison, for science.
10:20 "Who are you who is so wise in the ways of science?"
Ah, but can you not also build bridges out of stone?
You're one of the few people who I genuinely get excited for every time I see you that made a new video.
+DevinSmith56 Exactly the same for me
+DevinSmith56 The helmets and armour pieces are absolutely gorgeous, and he's probably the most knowledgeable person concerning armour on KZhead (though there are a lot of people who know a lot about combat, like Matt Easton). I can't wait to see a thing or two about armets, they're my favourite helmets.
I hope he'll eventually make videos on other types of armor as well, like the milanese, the gothic or the fluted harnesses. My personal all-time favorite is this one: bilddatenbank.khm.at/images/500/HJRK_A_62_34429.jpg German gothic style, he often used it as an example in his videos
+Al-Malik Al-Ashraf Khalil Oh my gosh, look at those toes!
rhemorigher Yeah the points are for decoration and you can remove them from the actual sabatons when you are off your horse
Fantastic work and if I could click like twice I would :D Also I can't help but noticing those wonderful frog mouth in the pictures, I just love the frog mouth it's my favourite helmet together with the armet, it looks bad ass.
+Metatron Yeah, I agree. Frogmouths have a very intimidating look to them. I wish I had one! Maybe if I ever get to start doing the knightly equestrian arts I'll look into obtaining one! :)
I wonder if the frogmouth is still so popular if worn during rain! :)
So, I understand this is an incredibly late question about an old video of yours. But I was discussing the Frogmouth helmet with a colleague, and I mentioned that though it was almost entirely used for jousts that there was some artwork that had them used in battles. He didn't believe me. I think, the art I'm talking about I saw on your videos. And it may be the piece at 3:34. Can you tell me the title of that work? Or, if I'm wrong and that's a tourney or something, that'd be fine as well. Thank you, if you read this. I love all your videos.
I'm curious if there are frog mouths with retention chains or straps like earlier great helms. That would allow them to be used in battle without hampering the weare because you could ditch the helmet as soon as you get in melee.
That would extremely heavy/bulky to carry around, I think it would just get in the way.
I love the look of the northern Italian one at 5:58. Very intimidating, almost like an executioner's hood.
And amazingly, he gets ahold of the reproduction almost 4 years later!
I have to say that the great bascinet is possibly the most under appreciated helmet. After looking into the helmet more, I find it's a very interesting design.
I can only afford an okay bascinet. I'm saving up for a great one.
I never knew about the lance rest. That's great info, because a game I'm making has a character who wields a lance. Even that slight detail is interesting to add.
11:54 here we have 2 birds pecking the air. This type of behavior only happens when birds of called "bascinets" sees a fellow bird coming their way.
sir I greatly aprecciate you and your channel
Seems like with the heavy throat protection and low mobility this would be a better helm for the joust than melee. I think I have read that great bascinet continued in use as a jousting helmet for some time after it was superseded as field armour.
+lancer D Yes, it was used very prominently in the tournament after it faded from the battlefield, but was still very popular for the dismounted men-at-arms of England well into the 1450s.
+Knyght Errant Didn't the English tend to armor themselves more heavily than their European counter parts anyway? Increasing the mobility in the up and down range seems like something that would benefit a jouster more, whereas decreasing side-to-side mobility wouldn't really be much of a disadvantage to a jouster, no? Is that maybe another indicator that the Great Bascinet was primarily a jousting helmet?
The great bascinet was most definitely not a jousting helmet primarily, and wouldn't be until much closer to the end of its battlefield life. It was designed as a field combat helmet and favored by the English from its inception through basically the remainder of the Hundred Years War. It didn't primarily become a tournament helmet until later. The English did tend to armor themselves in a way that favored foot-combat as that was their tactical preference for the entirety of the Hundred Years War having learned the lesson of Bannockburn. Fighting on foot ultimately means potentially being in more danger from all sides than fighting from horseback, and English armor reflects that reality.
+Knyght Errant That sounds strange to me. Don't you need to look to the side much more in foot combat than on horseback? Or is it just because it's not your helmet and its a bit to big for you? Would it be possible to turn your head with the actual helmet along if it fits tighter? I can't ímagine to fight visor down if the helmet is moved by my shoulder movement. Every time i wind up a blow with a two handed weapon i'll lose sight.
+Nighti88 The helmet's design compromise is an intentional degradation of mobility for far greater protection of the throat / spine / head. Perhaps this is why the visors over time tended to shift to a more globose rounded design instead of the more protruding snouted design. You could probably regain some peripheral vision in a visor like that when moving your head within the helmet. Note how the visor on the example at 7:54 has extra holes drilled even behind the sites to aid in vision and air exchange (this is a common feature on surviving great bascinet visors). The helmet I'm wearing in this video is of the design of the earliest forms of great bascinets. Later ones would tend to exaggerate the size a bit more, but they were pretty much intended to remain relatively stationary on the shoulders. There are also plenty of depictions of men fighting on foot in great bascinets with the visors entirely removed. You shouldn't really be doing any sort of extraordinary motions to 'wind up' a pollaxe shot that would cause you to lose site of your opponent though, even in a visor. I've watched plenty of people fight pollaxe or spear with a great bascinet on and keep their heads pointed toward their opponent with a relatively immobile helmet (here's a couple shots I photographed at a Deed of Arms last year, one spear, one longsword bout with great bascinet (c2.staticflickr.com/4/3942/15350306350_0208fb5298_b.jpg) (c2.staticflickr.com/4/3934/15535948745_0a7a46bee7_b.jpg)
Another great video. And an interesting helmet for sure.I've always thought, that great bascinets must've been a real PITA to wear in combat, and I can't say, that this video has persuaded med otherwise. I can definately see, why the sallet/bevor combination found favor later in the 15th century.About the reason for its development, I see why you'd relate it to the development of the lance rest, but I'd suggest maybe a broader picture. As the true full plate harness became the standard for the knightly class in the late 14th cen. there would've been a lot of focus towards finding the weak spots in that new type of armour, and the maille protected throat is an obvious target. This is the time where we see the rise of the warhammer and other "beaked" weapons specifically designed to break trough maille as well as the more widespread use of maces. Maybe it was not just lances that sparked the eveolution of the plated throat defense, but the very fact, that as plate armour became standard, people started to target specifically the areas that had "only" maille protection with weapons the were specifically designed to injure through maille?Just my 2 cents.
+Finkeren Those are some great points that I hadn't considered, and I am definitely inclined to agree with you. Thank you!
+Finkeren mail aventail protect against most arm-strength strike. But i think beaked weapon are mostly used to grip mail and other parts of Armour or to bent a plate of metal.  I don't think beaked weapon was used to burst mail links but to grip knight with like a lucern hammer then pull them off the horse. I see 2 main advantage in the great bascinet over the aventail : resistance against powerfull couched lance strike and less target to be grappled.
+Finkeren I would definitely agree that it would not just be the lance that would contribute to the introduction of rigid throat defence, with war hammers and maces becoming more prominent, I would also say that a major contributor would be the increase in Pole arms being used during this time, specifically the infamous "Pole Axe". I don't know about you, but I certainly wouldn't want to be hit in the throat with a pole axe without rigid plate defence! What is also interesting about the Great Bascinet is the elongated defence for the back of the throat in addition to the front, which compared to the Sallet with Bevor, is significantly more substantial, it takes a little while before the Sallet develops the very long "fish" like articulated tails, which might have been why the Great Bascinet lasted longer on the battlefield than you would first suspect. Obviously people had a lot of trouble getting walloped in the back of the head.
+clubinglex I can definately see your point about the throat plate being harder to grapple with (something that's only areal concern if you're fighting on foot) and less prone to get caught in a weapon (which is always a threat, but even more serious when on horseback, as it could potentially not only pull your helmet off but either strangle you or pull you off the horse) That's definately something to take into consideration.I have to disagree about your point about beaked weapons. I'm absolutely sure, that they were not simplyto be used as hooks in combat. On a lot of late medieval weapons we do find regular hooks, which were obviously only meant to be used as hooks, but the true "crows beaks" are different from these both in shape and material. The true beaks are always made of very hard tempered steel or at least work hardened to a considerable degree. They are usually of square or diamond shaped cross section and quite hefty (unlike the hooks who can be quite thin the save weight and material) They are almost always curved in such a way, that it ensures that the point impacts at a right angle when swinging with a slightly bent arm (meaning the longer the shaft, the less curved the beak will be) Hooks on other types of weapons usually have a more pronounced curve. All that points to the fact, that these weapons were definately primarily meant for striking with the point, the beaks function as a hook is secondary. But was it really meant to be used against maille? I think so, yeah. I've talked to some people who have done extensive tests of the effectiveness of maces and warhammers, and they have told me, That a crows beak is nearly imposible to get to penetrate any kind of plate armour, if it has even the slightest curve. 95% of all blows simply glance off (unlike the mace and hammerheads, which have several points of contact and therefore can really "bite" into the armour) On the other hand, the beak is devastating against maille. Maille is great armour overall, but it has a major weakness in that it will almost always catch a point that's thrust at it. Even with sloppy alignment a crows beak will bite into maille and do damage. It won't always break through the rings - well made maille is sturdy stuff - but because of the weight and top heavy balalnce of the warhammer, and enormous amount of force is concentrated in that point and it can just drag the maille along with it into your throat/armpit/etc. One of the guys I talked to told me, that they had tested the wahammer against a cured pigs leg (much harder than living tissue) dressed it up in maille with thick padding and taken a good, strong swing at it. The maille didn't burst, but the blow drove the maille and padding right through the ham and burried the crows beak to the shaft. Now, imagine that being done to your throat. Even with double layers of protection, like on Ian's armour, ít's gonna crush your larynx, most likely incapacitate you, regardless if it penetrates, because the point of the beak concentrates the force of the blow and to a large extend negates the dissipading effect of the maille and padding. Try using a crows beak against the troat plate of a great bascinet, and it'll just glance off. In essence it's the same issue as being hit by a couched lance, only the war hammer is a close combat weapon, that your opponent will often get repeated chances of hitting you with in a fight, with a couched lance, you most often only get one chance.
+Finkeren thanks for all the infos. In fact after a few search i can say lucern hammer pike is for mail / soft armour, because its too thin and it can bend / break on plate. But some hammer pick are very large and perhaps more suited to strike harder materials, i will work more on this latter...
thank you for making these !
Exactly the videos I've been looking for. They've been helping me write my research papers. Great content, very informative.
fast becoming my favourite youtube channel.
Seamless presentation. Thank you.
Most beautiful modern grand bascinet ive ever seen :) !
Greetings from Denmark =) Very informative, compared to just looking at pictures of helmets. Keep up the good work. 👍
Watching you move about in the great bascinet...yup. That’s now the “Batman Helmet” in my mind. XD
3:12 A lance rest also allows for a heavier lance, considerably heavier. Regardless I wouldn't want to take a full strike from a lance with any armor. Just no and No!
Great vid as always. :)
really like your videos! and i like the navy shirt!
What a gorgeous piece of armor
Another nice and informative vid! I noticed the great bascinet has breaths on both sides of the visor. That in conjunction with the more rounded shape of both the helmet and visor seems like a step backward from the Hounskull in terms of strength and deflective properties - something that would seem all the more necessary with the development of the lance rest and the more powerful and targeted blow that it provided. Any reason why the more angular Hounskull design, which would appear to better deflect blows, was abandoned with the great bascinet?
Some helmets look good with the visor up. The great bascinet is not one of them. It puts your face in this little frame like those cut-out posters at carnivals.
***** I know that it's a good design. But its looks amuse me. And thinking of only the practical design is the mindset of a common warrior, not a noble. Is it practical to cover your arms and armor in gold and jewels? No. Did it happen? Absolutely.
+Noah Weisbrod Yes, it gives you the appearance of having this tiny little face amidst a huge mass of steel :) And yes, there were a lot of things that had nothing to do with practicality when it came to medieval armor, especially towards the end of the 15th century and into the renaissance. Entire field harnesses fire-gilded anyone?
Cool stuff! It's interesting that this even developed, since the bascinet + standing collar looks like an early sallet + bevor combo. Were these more common in certain regions? Seems closer to an armet than anything else.
great video, this makes me wounder how many sci-fy armour that would not work in real Life.
just subscribed and loving your videos... any chanche that you will do a Sallet video?
Its been said but I'll say it again, fantastic videos.
superbe video, le grand bascinet était vraiment ce qui me manquais niveau connaissance des armure, gros gg :-p
I appreciate your work. Will you make a video about Frog-mouth helm?
Timbyte it was a tournament helm, not likely
@@sojjjer Primary tournament, yes, but sometimes used in combat too.
Tell me why this dude gives off the same vibe as Ian McCollum from Forgotten Weapons. He even looks like him too just without the ponytail.
First off, you're making excellent videos, thank you and keep up the good work! I was wondering, was the continued use of the aventail by some due to a preference for mobility over protection or was it just that not everyone could afford the new technology?
+Aasmodeuss Thank you! To take a shot at your question, we do see houndksull bascinets with normal mail aventails on harnesses that have otherwise been updated with the 'latest in tech and fashion' for all the other components of the armor but just use an 'old fashioned' bascinet instead of a great bascinet. So it would seem that some people just preferred the older style of helmet. I would assume that mobility was one of the biggest contributing factors in people hanging on to it.
Perfect vídeo. I was wondering why the necessity of a rigid plate in neck. Thx
That one-piece great bascinet at about 6:10...I looked at that and immediately chuckled a bit, because I imagine you would look a lot like the old Adam West-era Batman having to turn your whole upper body to look from side to side.
What helmet would be best for tournament fighting and armor? Im getting the hound skull pig face helmet hopefully soon but mostly because I like the style of it lol.
I've never had the chance to wear one of these halls, but I've been told that they greatly restrict hearing. Why didn't they just make a small hole in the sides of the helm to allow you to hear better. Roman helmets had something similar to that, and they were effective indeed.
Wondering, when I see the bascinet with aventail, whether they ever just added some small plates to the aventail itself for added protection? Never seen it in a picture, though it seems a sensible evolution.
I think such limited range of motion might also provide considerable protection against concussion, compared to the mail-based one.
Oh damn, I didn’t think of that.
pretty cool collar plate at 5:00, is there like a name for that certain one?
Im not an expert or armorsmith obv, but it seems like you could extend the opening of the area near the eyes on the inside to give yourself a better fov when turning your head, at least when the visor is up (but I dunno how often that would even be necessary)
Hello, this most probably has been asked a hundred times but i cant find an answer: Where do you get those pieces of armor? They look truly fantastic.
This looks like it would be very useful in a joust or a cavalry charge against a line of spearmen, as you said, but that lack of ability to turn your head could prove deadly in foot combat. I am willing to bet that there were plenty of Knights who died once dismounted because their enemy was keen of the weakness and attacked from the sides.
The peripheral vision is no worse than other helmet types. In general, shifting a little to keep a scan going was required with any knightly helmet. Maybe it would have been more awkward in rough terrain with dispersed forces intermixed, but that situation would call for a lighter harness configuration in the first place with a helmet matching that intent. English knights used it extensively from the beginning into the last quarter of the 15th century, during which period they fought on foot as a rule and with great success.
Great video, as always. A thought occurred to me watching the end of this video that the inner ridge of the bascinet comes quite close to the bridge of the nose. Would it be possible that with a downward strike on the helmet, with the visor down, that the inside ridge of the bascinet might strike the nose with such force as to create bleeding. If so, why not add padding to the inner ridge. If not, is it because that particular helm was not designed for you, and if it were would the bascinet never hit the nose? Thank you!
+Conor Hughes The visor doesn't come close to my nose. If you look at it in profile, the visor is projected very far outward from the plane of your face. Your nose doesn't protrude much beyond the edge of the brow facial opening, whereas the visor surface is well clear of that plane. I can hit it all day and not worry about it impacting me. A very shallow visor on some klappvisor bascinets though could cause that problem if you're not careful with fit though.
"Being able to move your head in a combat situation is considered very desirable...." Funny that ^^
Are "gentlemen" actually "gentle men", when trying to kill each other with large swords?
Nah, but medium-sized swords are fine
No, but it's still polite to call them gentle.
No, but if you tell them that they will disembowel you. Thus, we call them gentlemen.
Found your channel via Matt Easton. I am slowly falling in love with your work. Very professional feel. Was just wondering if you believed a steel mask was viable. What I am most specifically referring to I've seen in various movies (I know...), but I love the visuals. The king from Kingdom of Heaven, one of the gladiators from Gladiator. Any thoughts or input?
+Billy Mac Thanks, and welcome to the channel! I just can't help but thinking something like that would wind up smashing right into the wearer's face if it got hit with anything. Real medieval helmet visors tend to be well supported and held away from the face. In many cases it would require total failure of a visor to hit your face. A mask already in contact with your face would probably have the same defensive value.
That's fair. Thanks for actually responding!
Curious on your view of the Bascinet with side shields. Practical?
The big brother of bascinet
Regarding the Lance Rest: Were there any known attempts to attach the Lance directly to the Horse? For example by running a rope from the Grip of the Lance to an attachment point on the saddle. Normally you'd argue that it was important for safety that the rider can drop the lance but that somewhat goes out the window already when locking it into a Lance Rest, also there would be ways creating a locking mechanism or even "dead men switch" to such a contraption such as that the the grip is released the tie down also is released.
Not that I know of, but the lance rest doesn't lock the lance in place, it can still easily be dropped. It's only the really late tournament-built lance rest and cradle system of the German stechzeug that really locked the lance into place.
@@KnyghtErrant Interesting, thank you.
nice hoodie
On the previous era bascinet, there was only one side of the visor wich had breathing holes. I remember having heard from you (Or was it from Tobias Capwell in Matt Easton's video? Or both of you? Not quite sure anymore) that it was to provide safer structure integrity on the side that was the most likely to recieve lance's impact. This more recent bascinet however seems to have breathing holes on both side. Is there a reason why it is so?
+maaderllin It's not that older bascinets had asymmetric breathing holes and newer ones didn't. All eras of bascinets featured both symmetric and asymmetric breathing hole variations from visor to visor, but when they were asymmetric, it was always the left side that was not pierced. If you go back to my regular bascinet video at this time marker (kzhead.info/sun/fb2RpZyEfpaaio0/bejne.htmlm33s ) you'll see there are plenty of examples of surviving older houndskull bascinets with holes on both sides, or holes on just the right side. What you won't see on surviving bascinets of any era is holes just on the left. And this is true of other armor components as well, when there is asymmetry, it's the left side that's almost always more defended (Milanese pauldrons come to mind).
Thank you
Dear Knyght Errant, a question. If the Great Bassinet was to give more throat protection during jousting & other combat. Why does the visior have breathing holes punched in the left side as well. While most bassinets have only right sided breathing holes? Wouldn't this compromise the strength of the visor to withstand a hit by lance or poleaxe? 🤔
The great bascinet gives more throat and neck protection, but not necessarily for just _the joust_ or _mounted_ combat. Visors pierced on both sides are generally thought of as foot combat visors, and great bascinets, despite their restrictions, were the primary foot combat helmet for the English man-at-arms in the opening decades of the 15th century. In those circumstances, a well ventilated helmet would be very welcome. On foot, against the pollaxe, I think the general robustness of the great bascinet, especially its ability to isolate the neck and throat from swings of the pollaxe are more important features than the possibility of compromising the visor. Many helmets could have exchange visors as well; a benefit afforded by the pinned attachments. A cavalry visor for a great bascinet could look very different from a foot combat visor. There are at least two great bascinets that survive that have frogmouth visors with no breaths at all for example; one in Churburg and one at the Met.
Dumb question. Why not have the solid plate neck piece(as seen on the example helmet in this video) free flowing- not attached to the helmet or fastened to the breastplate. That would ensure the same amount of protection plus allow left/right mobility of the head.
+mattmattmatt131313 They did do that on occasion (you can see a few examples in the video, like the one at 5:00). It's a much less stable configuration, but would offer mobility. The drawback that comes with that mobility is that the neck, being less stable, is now more prone to potential injury. By the time great bascinets became popular, they much preferred the more protective version as evidenced by survivals and artwork. A tactical preference on the battlefield probably dictated this choice.
What effigy is that at 6:50? You didn't name it. That piece of armor that is like a paunce of plates that replaces the aventail for the helmet has no... official name you've found yet? I suppose it is quite obscure. I can see how where the helmet attaches to the "paunce" it could be fit like the waist where your cuirass meets its' paunce. Left to right axial articulation of the helmet seems easily possible, but wouldn't overcoming the friction require excessive fitment of the helm? Likely not worth the effort.
Could you link all of the manuscript images you used?
can you imagine wearing that helmet driving your car to work! could get lots of looks and comments!
Not sure you can safely drive with that thing on…😂😂😂😂
How badly does it restrict your breathing? I would think it should be easier to breathe in than in great helm since the snout offers more surface area for breathing holes.
I can't find any pictures of a reproduction of the articulated plate bascinet, I really want to see how it works
The Great Bacinet may solve some of the problems that might be keeping me off the field in the future. It is one of the things I'm thinking about getting when I change my kit. Would you say a Sallet & Bevior combo is an attempt to get back some of that neck mobility?
+Aspie Sean Side note. James Earley (ska Duke Sir James Greyhelm) of Greyhelm Armories literally put a folding lance rest on his personal cuirass because the period ones did.
+Aspie Sean I would say both the sallet and the armet were totally different evolutionary paths that diverged separately from the great bascinet, and each of them offer more mobility. Having the option of adding or removing a wrapper plate with later armets is also very nice, allowing you to choose mobility vs protection with the addition of a single piece of kit. But yeah, if you're worried about having a more stable neck and head while getting hit, a proper great bascinet could be a viable solution. Some later great bascinets even strapped or bolted to a backplate to make them more stable.
Knyght Errant It's nice to have options. :)
What manuscripts are those ? Seems like they depict guys fighting in ‘frog mouth’ helms which I thought were specialized for tourney tilting only.
Were the standing plate collars fixed to the breastplate? Or did they just rest on the shoulders? If they were fixed to the breastplate, why did this form of protection not become the more popular version to use as compared to the great bascinet? Considering that fixed standing collars would offer the same rigid protection for the throat area while still allowing turning of the head. Something like a bascinet with an integral plate covering the chin area (sort of like a great bascinet but without the throat collar), and then the throat and back of the neck defense being provided by a standing plate collar fixed to the breast and backplate.
There are no surviving examples of standing plate collars to my knowledge and the artwork doesn't really give us too much to go on. The closest related piece of armor would be a bevor which some variants do attach to the breastplate, so it's possible they were doing the same thing with standing collars but we just don't know.
Where do you get your armour/helmets from?
What possible advantages can it have over a great helm/bascinet combination except lower profile? Somebody below suggested that there might've been a development in popularity of weapons specifically designed to pierce maille so maybe it wasn't a question any more of when to wear a regular bascinet but a question of how to avoid wearing it entirely? And if it was answered in the video I must've missed and I apologise in advance and ask for a time mark where it was answered, thank you very much!
+Anton Adelson The great helm is a pretty cumbersome helmet in the sizes that it was approaching at the end of the 14th century. By the turn of the 14th/15th century, the great helm had mostly been relegated to the tournament field. For the last couple decades of the 14th century, the houndskull bascinet was vastly more popular than the great helm / low profile open faced bascinet combo. The advantage of a stand-alone bascinet was that you only had to wear a single helmet, and with the high pointed skull and swept visor of the houndskull variety, you had the same glancing characteristics (if not better) than the great helm, while also having a lot of the advantages of the bascinet. You can always raise or discard the visor should the need arise for better vision or breathing. By the first decade of the 15th century, they really started developing ways to protect the throat beyond what the mail aventail offered. The great bascinet was the natural evolution to that concern. Now you had an all-in-one helmet that had the advantages and glancing characteristics of the great helm, the streamlined characteristics of the stand-alone bascinet, and because of the tactical concerns of the evolving battlefield, the far more protective throat and cervical spine protection offered by the great bascinet.
Wow. You should be an academic or a writer ! So I understand there were no great helms which could fit over a houndskull type of bascinet face plate?
Thanks! No, I don't believe they ever experimented with fitting a great helm over a houndskull visor. Even if you could make it fit you could run into some serious vision issues. If the two sets of oculars don't line up perfectly you'd be blinded. In a situation where you're being struck or bouncing around I think trying to keep two pairs if oculars aligned would prove too difficult.
Great video, where did you buy this Great Bascinet & what price range?
The Great Bascinet is not mine, it was made by Robert MacPherson (he is semi-retired from armoring) for a friend, but for a helm of that quality I would expect to pay a few thousand dollars.
tfw 7 years later we see that this helmet is just a bit oversized and does move almost normally when fitted properly
I'm thinking that the Italian number at 6 minutes in is for tourneys. Is that a reasonable conclusion?
another reason for plating the throat might be english arrows. A proper war bow can get through mail, but definitely not plate
I know this video is older, but I thought maybe you would see this. For a late 14th and early 15th century man at arms, especially english, wearing a brigandine, would a great bascinet be appropriate, or should I be looking more towards a classic bascinet, or an earlier sallet?
A great bascinet tends to get paired with a plate cuirass simply for the fact that the plate collar of the great bascinet is designed to work with and be supported by the cuirass. In a brigandine armor, it may be possible to wear a great bascinet, but I would probably expect to see it paired more with a regular bascinet with aventail.
That's what I was thinking, just a curiosity. I'm trying to think a bit outside the box, I'm not a huge fan of the standard bascinet with a few exceptions(I actually like the style of yours, and for some reason the.... I'm not sure what to call them besides "pasta strainer" style klapp visors.), and dealing with having to wear glasses beneath a helmet to boot. I will probably go the sallet route, and aim to make my kit just a touch later period
Was the frogmouth helmet used in combat?
it was but, as lots of depictations suggest but it wasn't that common or atleast not for a long period of time (1390-1420 maybe or so) and some had holes in the faceplate aswell for breathing and foot combat. but thats not the ideal helmet for combat i guess, but still very usable and protective enough for sure.
Yes was used in combat esp by the French and some English knights.
where do you get this armor?
Why does this helmet have breaths on both side rather than solely the right side? Had the steel improved so much that they no longer had to worry like they did on earlier hound skulls.
Piercings on both sides of a visor often imply optimization for use on foot as opposed to optimization for cavalry, although there are exceptions. There are examples of traditional houndskulls with visors pierced on both sides as well, it's not a houndskull vs great bascinet sort of distinction.
Could you do a video on sallets plz?
+Trick If I'm able to get my hands on a high quality sallet, absolutely.
This guy reminds me of the guy from forgotten weapons.
+Knight Errand are you of Sicilian heritage? The symbol on you laptop seems to say so...
I am, but the logo on the laptop is purely coincidental. It's just the logo for the PC gaming company 'Razer.'
I guess from the illustrations than the frog-mouth helmet will be coming next ?
+Knight Errand ...baciamo le mani :-)
Hello there Ian Laspina, what is your strapping assembly for the great bascinet
There is no chin strap on this helmet if that's what you mean. If you're referring to external straps, some early great bascinets don't have those either (this one doesn't), but over time they started to strap down to the back plate and eventually to the breastplate as well. I'm having a great bascinet made for myself that will strap only to the backplate.
Ah, i see, thanks for that, in that instance were bascinets with the rigid throat defence strapped in the same way? I.e open face bascinets with the bevor plate attached.
And may you have the best of luck in your attempt to strap the reredos to the bascinet.
Instead of extending the helmet down over the neck, why didn't they extend the breastplate up? I'm imagining a sort of rigid cone that extends upward from the breastplate up to chin level that the helmet can freely rotate within. Of course, there would be more of a gap in this setup, but it seems like that solution would work for deflecting lance strikes (and would transmit more of the force to the torso rather than the head)
Looks like they kind of did: 4:45
could be to let the shock of a high lance strike to transfer to the shoulders instead of the neck?
Hey, Henry’s come to see us.
can you make a video for the sallet
+Adam Baker I am working on getting access to a high quality sallet in the future, but I'm not sure exactly when that will be.
Hi Ian, just wondering if there is any evidence for the great bascinet being worn without full plate armour or was it a prerequisite to be fully armoured in order to wear the helmet ?
The great bascinet is really designed to take advantage of being partnered with a plate cuirass. Also the status of the person wearing such a complete and technologically current / fashionable helmet would be the kind of man-at-arms who could afford a current harness. That being said, there are some strange bascinets shown in BNF 5243 Guiron le Cortois that might be experimental plate neck protection that are being worn with fully developed globose corazzinas in Italy, but these are effectively solid breastplates and highly shaped segmented backplates anyway, just covered in fabric. I'd hesitate to call them 'great bascinets' because they look rather unique and may have been very localized.
Cheers that's really interesting! i'm currently building a transitional armour with breastplate over maile haubergeon and gambeson, so I guess the great helm might be somewhat anachronistic for that type of armour? think i will stick with the aventailed houndskull thanks again :)
Depending on exactly when you're aiming for, fitting a great helm _over_ your aventailed bascinet would be perfectly appropriate.
12:00 just looks like penguins doing synchronized nodding. Im really not keen on that type of visor. The regular houndskull with what i would call the weeping eye slits just doesnt look menacing at all
Who makes your armor I'm having trouble finding someone to make it
steel Mastery bud...they make some real nice armour with great tailoring and customization at a decent price...like 7500(usa) on average for a full set...real good n simple with great customer support I RECOMMEND IT BUD! :)
Jeff wasson made everything but his helmet. Piotr Feret made the bascinet.
I noticed that the standard bascinet you showed before had a high peak near the back, but the great bascinet you show in this video is much more rounded and doesn't have a high peak. Was it more common for a great bascinet to lack a high peak than for a typical bascinet, or is it a coincidence?
Regular bascinets feature different peak heights and placement as well. Later bascinets tend to have higher more pronounced peaks, but this is not a hard and fast rule. Great bascinets do tend to be more rounded, but there are counter examples there as well.
Dr. Capwell said he puts bee's wax in his helmet to prevent it from ringing when struck, do you do the same
+Hedge Twentyfour I've never personally tried it, but I've heard him discuss that in a talk. Makes perfect sense to do! Maybe the next time I pull the liner out of my helmet I'll wax it a bit in there.
Knyght Errant I was also considering buying his book about armour, could you do some kind of review about that, without giving it all away of course.
+Hedge Twentyfour Here's my review... if you're interested in English armor at all, you can't live without it. :) But seriously, it's my new favorite book on armor. So detail rich, and almost exactly my area of focus. It's really a spectacular work.
Knyght Errant Hahahah, you should make more of those jokes in your videos, lighten the mood a bit ;)
What is it about armour that's just so damn interesting?
Lobstertail helms? Seems they might have allowed you to look up further than the bascinet. With a bevor the throat protection would be equal. Are the Bascinets more of a french type too? or have I just been watching too much monty Python?
+watchthe1369 Helms with lobstertails are usually sallets, which chronologically develop after the popularity of bascinets starts to wane (mid 15th century). Bascinets were popular all over Western Europe, especially in the 14th century.
Where do you get your armour pieces from?
+Reed Noss I don't own the great bascinet, but all of my personal armor was custom made for me by Jeff Wasson with the exception of my houndskull bascinet which was made by Piotr Feret.
Knyght Errant Thanks :)
The bascinet at 5:56 looks like it might possibly be a tournament helm from the way it restricts almost all head movement. Visibility in many of the medieval helms was very restricted to begin with, so restricting head movement like this would be (in my opinion) highly undesirable.
+TAsatorT That particular one absolutely could be. It's important to note however, that many great bascinets are intended to strap down to the cuirass and marry to the breastplate / backplate in a way that makes turning them difficult if not impossible. They tend to be large enough to move your head inside the helmet though.
Perhaps another reason for the Great Bascinet was tournaments? Maybe it was favored for tournament use were the ability to move your head isn't as important?
+GLADHATMAS When the great bascinet was first invented, it was definitely with the intent for use in warfare, but as its popularity on the battlefield waned and gave way to the armet and sallet, it absolutely became a very popular tournament helmet.
Knyght Errant Awesome! Great to know, thank you :)
Got dayum, can you imagine being impaled by a lance from a fast moving knight? Fuck that..
how do you get a set of amour?
It typically involves contacting a custom armorer, planning and researching the armor you're interested in, getting fitted for it, and then letting the armorer work their magic. There will typically be additional fittings as things progress.
Shouldn’t ya have a padded pelorine on for this
Batman turns for days.
where can i get some good armor off the internet?
one thing: i think the top/bottom movement is likely going to be impeded by the breast plate (not shown here) more than you showed as the bevor plate in your nodding position pretty much touched your chest
Interesting how a lot of those illustrations show what looks like a frogmouth helm, perhaps they were not just for jousting