Welcome back to our next testing instalment this time we take a look at a jolt cannon.
Test it for yourself here Helios PJ-100 Piston Jolt
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"We will be using Mass Drivers." "They have been outlawed by every civilized planet!" "These are uncivilized times." "We have treaties!" "Ink on a page!"
Is that a Babylon 5 reference I see? Don't see too many of those these days
It's an older reference, sir, but it checks out.@@ottovonbismarck7646
Im introducing a friend(definitely not a captive in my basement) to babylon 5. were halfway through season 2 rn good to see my people still show up for refrences
you love to see it
B5 love!
I've always loved how people have done actual R&D for alternative weapons in the face of only having Gatling guns and rocket launchers for the longest time.
Gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling to know people will go out of their way to weaponize anything in the game. Community spirit. Haha.
Mac rounds, in atmosphere???
Only if Reach would've had clang drives.
One way to get their attention. Hang on to your teeth, people.
Love it
HOLD ONTO YOUR TEETH!
"New contact, high tonnage"
Finally, a proper main caliber for battleships other then missiles.
"Then" is to talk about when things happen. (I did this *then* this.) "Than" is to compare things. (I would rather this *than* this.) 🤓
There are like cannons and tail guns too
@@basedsneedclave175tail guns
40k ship builders gonna start installing these for their broadsides
Love that that was my first thought
Heresy. These need to be on the bottom of the ship aimed down in times of exterminatus
Captain: "Arm the Clang Gun." Lieutenant: "But sir, what about the survivors?" Captain: "What survivors?"
You should have replaced the warhead with a seat and launched yourself to space. Probably make a moon trip a lot faster than my personnel shuttle, heh.
Klang drives are kinda this but somewhat controlable
if a single thruster was to be launched it would only travel 100m/s as well both control blocks such as seat/cockpit as well as thrusters have a speed cap. only sub-grids. this is using a sub-grid exploit
@@Only_Soggy no thrusters, just a block and a seat.
Its a bit exploitive, but not unstoppably exploitive. It still takes a bit of aiming and good luck to hit a distance target, especially a moving one. If it could be somehow limited by the player so its not too overpowered, I think it would a fun addition to battles. Besides, as long as it doesn't break the server itself, and all the players know how to build it. Than I actually would like to see it in a PVP server setting, because it would be interesting to see how players adapt and overcome the shear power of the jolty cannon. Instead of building mega large battleships that can 1v1 any ship, players probably will resort to smaller faster ships, capable of dodging with ease the gun at fairly safe distances. Or maybe players will adopt fighter tactics, and swarm enemy ships with jolt cannons. With Jolt cannon users building destroyer or frigate like ships that focus on speed and maneuverability to keep themselves alive. Maybe the biggest ships wont be big battleships, but rather big carriers with swarms of AI drones, ready to be sent in before hand. Or maybe we will see jolt cannon battles from long range, where whole factions fire large volleys at one another from far far away. Space engineers is all about adapting and overcoming challenges, so the jolt cannon would definitely be a serious channel to overcome.
"where whole factions fire large volleys at one another from far far away" So the musket tactics of lining up and all shooting at each other.
@@Blargerhonkspace line warfare
@@justjesse4276 That's the words! I couldn't remember the terminology. Thank you! :D
I hate the idea of everyone sharing tech for fairness. I loved the early era of SE because everyone had unique weapons and armor solutions. It added a certain thrill you can't get with a curated and balanced fight. To be fair, you sometimes did get outmatched, but that's when you go to the drawing board and R&D the response.
Could also (probably) use them for mining resources too.
I love the idea of it being an illegal weapon. It makes me want to use it more. 😂
Exactly!!! This thing is effectively a superweapon.
This is why you dont ban anything in space engineers servers, you just make them "warcrimes"
All I'm seeing is something that's about to make my UNSC Ships a little more lore accurate lmao This is beautiful
UNSC ships are more guns that happen to be ships.
I think the risks associated with using these things & the skill needed to produce a good one (especially in survival) more than balances out the slightly exploit-y nature of them. Especially considering what getting hit just once can do if it just so happens to hit the cannon (which is a lot larger than any other weapon in the first place).
It would be a MAC situation where you have one powerful weapon, but if anything hits it then the entire ship is fucked.
I used to love making the old gravity accelerated weapons when the warheads were first added, I still mean to look back and see how much those types have progressed.. This just brings back that nostalgia for big clangy weapons and bigger explosions and destruction in general.
Scale it up, replace the warhead with an anchor block, and you have an interesting way of launching ships with no atmospheric maneuverability into space from the surface. You'd probably have to make it absolutely enormous to launch most large grid ships though. This seems mostly for small grid ships and transport cruisers. Side tangent, if you can rig a cargo container with inertial dampening, make it so it turns on after a set period (once it reaches vacuum, on a timer, or at a specific altitude), and give it a beacon, you could effectively make an orbital-range Fulton Delivery System. This is giving me ideas, and now that Space Engineers is on Game Pass, I can test said ideas out.
Credits goes to Major Jon
search Piston Jolt Clang Gun Multi Ammo for a version with adjustable projectile speed and ammo type. It's based on PJ-200 by Major Jon.
As far as gameplay goes this is technically not intended, but from the standpoint of physics it’s essentially a crossbow, as the projectile is launched by the force of the drawstring (pistons) snapping back to a resting position from extreme tension
How is this an exploit? it's merely worshiping the lord of chaos. ALL HAIL CLANG!
Many forgot how are single warheads devastating. This is certainly the most interesting way to fire them at enemy, but one of the most Clang-prone ways too. We need good ship for showcase of cannon-fired ones too, which may be slower but equally devastating
This little build would be good if a server wanted to simulate what real space battles would be, make them planetary defenses and allow teams only a couple ships capable of being armed with 1 or 2 of these each. Because honestly if you want a roleplay idea, this would fit.
It's basically like a depth-penetration fuse warhead, that explodes after breaching the target, to cause way WAY more damage. Likely how explosion propigate in SE, they'll do more damage in a caved in structure, as opposed to a flat surface. Basically less wasted explosive force. Definitely an exploit, but a fun one. Maybe transform it into a kinetic gun, that fire high mass blocks.... Maybe that would be an acceptable exploit, while still remaining fun.
Not only this construction is legitimate, but it is holy, as it is a stable vessel for Clang.
It's exploitive of a safety mechanism that was added to pistons to stop them from claging or exploding. When you exceed the speed limit in this game collision detection does not work properly. The projectile passes trough armor block and rocks as if they aren't there. Such weapons can hit underground bases without even damaging the land above the base. It's just too broken to be considered legit.
This would be a good spinal mount artillery. Harder to aim at distance, and the enemy still has plenty of time to evade, even with the speed. I see no reason to ban it, aside from the domination it would have in orbital bombardment
FWIW, there is a 'laser pointer' mod in the Steam Workshop that might make aiming it *MUCH* easier.
It's not forgotten, nor obsolete. It's just that when playing within limitations, missiles far outclass this, as they don't require rotor/piston manual assembly or precautions other than repairing the launch bay when damaged. A clang gun will clang your entire ship if broken when firing. AI Block missiles also have surpassed CTC-rotor missiles. They're ready to launch effectively as soon as assembled, given a well-written blueprint. CTC-Rotor missiles require manual setup every time, and rotor care.
What if you put this on a block missile? A drone ship-killer.
@@maxbennett5412 It isn't feasible, as it would require you to either build or finish the missiles manually. Every time.
@@FMHikari Still a fun idea of a swarm of nuke-launching missiles.
@@maxbennett5412 I don't find fun in manual assembly if i know i can do better.
I absolutely love and am fascinated by clang weaponry, every iteration is amazing. Please please please make a dedicated clang cannon ship build
Honestly, I would build this and then build an entire ship around it kinda like an A-10 Warthog being built around the gau 8. Just a way to get the gun where it needs to be.
"MAC Rounds? In atmosphere?"
The weapon concept I think is 100% legitimate, because the projectiles aren't exactly cheap to produce either. And if done properly, this 'clang cannon', or as I like to call it, a HYPERVELOCITY GUN, can be redesigned to have either a bigger projectile, or several in a row in very rapid succession, fired at a target. The HYPERVELOCITY gun si a planetary Superweapon that fires into fairly large ships in orbit due to big ships, logically, being smaller. The massive and/or numerous projectiles will just damage or split the target with ease. So if you have the time, I challenge you to design a Hypervelocity Gun with this gun concept. It's just bigger and/or more projectiles instead of just the one. And yes, this 'clang gun' does, as demonstrated, work on ships. But the bigger the gun is, the bigger the ship has to be that carries it.
Search workshop for PMW nuke, you will find lot of weak stuff but if you will find the true vanilla nuke, you not need any lanch system just activate it near enemy fleat and jump away :), But search for the newer nukes the older might not work because there was some updates which cripple the older ones :)
One thing I don't see anyone ever using is the Space ball which can be used as ammo in a gravity gun you don't see it often used tho last time I checked it still does good damage and the higher your speed mod goes the better it will do also gravity drives even tho KZheadrs do talk about it players don't use them in there designs very much
What I would do with this, is use a high mass block, instead of a warhead, use an array of them, and then use it like a mortar on planets, and make it rain blocks onto an enemy base in a preparatory bombardment, before the assault. Maybe too OP for players to use, but might make for a fun event that the server admins put together. Watch out for blocks raining from the sky!
Yes please more clang weapons. Would like to see more explanation of what's going on mechanically as well!
It’s an abuse of the force the game applies to keep the piston head on the piston
@@joyhoward6105 lol thanks, I know, at the high level, *what* klang is but I don't know/understand the best ways to invoke it and especially how to invoke it with semi reliable results.
This weapon is to fun not to use at least once on a server. Maybe make it a superweapon that only has 5 shots for the entirety of the next server scenario?
I'd love to see how this works with Bigger Explosions and Kinetic Devastation mods enabled!
I would love to see this clang gun as a dual-barrell variant on a custom turret.. and maybe see some efforts in increasing RPM as safely as possible.
Let's hope the devs don't nerf this weapon!
They can't really do much about it since it exploits subgrids
@@creeper7ech520 maybe they can, they already fix item duplication with projectors with warfare 2 update, i was wery impresed by that, because i was thinging before the exacly same think what you thinking about the exploited subgrids :D
@@denisj4996 that might be possible depending on why they didn't give subgrids a speed limit
@@creeper7ech520 the supgris speedlimit is already there, so the projectiles can fly maximum velocity of 1067.5 m/s they just need to make way that the game can discover that subgrid is realy detached if it looks tetached, mybe something waht detach all supgrids in betveen blocks what ar in distance bigger than 10m 🤔
@@denisj4996 good to know
Reminds me of the transform cannon from Perry Rhodan. These cannons are basically teleporting devices that teleport nukes inside of ship hulls to detonate.
A few months ago you had a video about a Speed-breaking exploit that depends on the improper categorization of a ship as a subgrid, because subgrids can go faster than other grids. You were NOT impressed. This gun works on the same principle, which is why the projectile is so scarily fast. I love this weapon, but if you still follow your own opinion from before, I'm surprised you would Arron. This weapon doesn't work without "inertia tensor" or scripts btw
you can make it work without scripts，but inertia tensor is required
you can make it without interia tensor if you use gravitigun as projectile accelerator, and you not need any scripts if you use rotors or hinges to activate speed breaking, and with gravity gun it also isn't that much exploit anymore because yes it is very devastating, but with this setup it also cost lot of materials, pcu and energy to fire, but all those speed breaking guns have one another feature, if you use them on server, the projectiles all compleatly invisible for all other players except those who are part of the grid with that gun because of server desynch :)
I had a friend that would make these tiny little fighter craft that he used as drones to ram other ships. His main ship was a carrier and he had a few others in their ships to defend him while he would basically fly unmanned ships at other ships. It worked shockingly well and he kept trying to make the little ships cheaper and cheaper to reproduce.
“Launch your ship into orbit” Yes, but only IF you desire to become a fleshy, compressed ball of steel
I think I would LOVE to see this thing launch a ship into space. that would be quite something to see! :)
Jolt cannons are great they basically deliver on everything a gravity cannon promises but fails to live up to.
gotta love a hyper velocity cannon
Wow... Just... wow. Love it! Tbh, if it doesn't create issues like lag or clang for others etc, then it's totaly fine in my book! Love to see this being used all over! Edit: I call it: The Clang-Cann.
it creates phanton forces on ship it is mounted on and ocassionally does catasthropic clang on own ship. Aaron was just spawning it as static grid
that's crazy cool. Clang rules all!
I built one of these on a server once, although was a little larger and the shell was bigger and used blast doors to as they have a tendency to go completely through a ship .... very quickly got told of after offing a few ships with it XD
Awesome space transport system :D
This should 100% be allowed on servers... it's basically someone making a legit weapon using the physics in the world which is amazing. Instead of using some stupid weapon that's given to you it's way more fun to build your own weapon. It's also MASSIVE so it kinda balances itself out with that almost.
The damage length is probably tied to ticks on which in game time operates. There was a similar problem in Starmade where you couldn't mod projectile (or ship) speeds over a certain limit without getting very weird results. Up to projectiles going through ships without doing damage or doing too much, or anything in between. Basically due to the speed the projectile is moving at it registers as being in multiple places at once and by the point game catches up to calculating the explosion it just slams it in all the affected spaces. Similarly the explosion against ships happens not on armor but in internal spaces and you are basically getting more than double the total damage due to how limited are surface explosions and the fact that they need to deal with armor.
Few things, first I’d like to bring up the concept of using it to launch small craft/drones out of atmosphere. Second is that speed is typically relative when it comes to damage from a projectile. Third, this clang weapon is an unintended result of the systems at play, yet it adds to the system. I think some severes should allow such mechanics
some servers do allow jolts
Made an SG piston based launcher for mines for the water mod using the new barrels as floats and setup with a proximity sensor.
I think a good method of comparing what happening is, that it is sort of similar to a railgun, but much more centered to destruction rather than penetration. A comparison to what is happening, to use a movie, would be "Battleship" with those weird spinning interceptable rounds that lodges itself into the ships and explodes after a short period. It's what's happening here as well, but significantly more powerful and deadly, especially if someone makes something like a light cruiser or destroyer that only utilizes this weapon as their main gun. Granted, most likely than not, this weapon will most likely have much more limited armor protection and be an exterior weapon that is attached to something like a destroyer or cruiser to prevent Clang from coming to you for abusing its powers, but that would be a fair trade off in combat for hitting a shot that may rip a ship in two, or do some serious damage. (TLDR: Weapon pierces through and explodes in a delayed manner, which makes it do more destruction rather than piercing as heavily as a railgun, which may be effective to breaking a ship's teeth. Might be best as an exterior mounted weapon on ships with decent gyroscopical control. Two might be an upper limit, but I don't have space engineers. Experts go nuts.)
Also forgot to mention, but from my limited understanding of Space Engineers, it would be much less risky to mount the weapon outside the ship but using the design as such to not have most of it directly exposed than having the ship have the weapon inside it. Though granted, that *DOES MEAN* it would need a specialized design and need significant testing to have it consistently not break the ship in some way, at least not after 15-30 shots were fired to ensure the ship has decent combat effectiveness and staying power. (And for it to probably not break before that point.)
Explote, no, feature that was granted by the physics of space engineers for games to make use of in creative manners, absolutely yes
I make a series of ship with those canons. One is already finished. It’s more of a prove of concept than anything else. Also working on a turreted version for my latest replica ship the Monarch (work in progress still).
DEMOLITION DEMOLITION DEMOLITION DEMOLITION Also Lord Klang would be proud of this weapon!
this would be a cool wepion for a server with an energy shield mod as to not have it an insta kill but more a opportunistic finisher of medium to large craft, or as a launcher for some kind of manned breaching craft
If you are to allow this, it should have heavy constraints placed on the availability. Maybe have them require a timer block for reload simulation and make them capital ship weapons or have ships that only have that as their weapon, sorta like a capital ship killer.
As a Spinal Weapon i'd say this is okay. As a Turret weapon its not okay. This is essentially a supersized mass accelerator afterall, one which in this case is more akin to a ballista or crossbow. But big.
Haven't seen that variation of Klang weapon for a long long time, I think it's older than 2 years Arron... The one I vaguely remember seeing had a drill head strapped to it instead of a warhead (before drill heads got nerfed with being more fragile) But yeah I can also remember quite a few server owners getting pissed off at that Klang weapon getting abused
gotta love a clang cannon
I actually mad a GAC cannon using a lot of Gav gens and mass blocks, was a fun concept to play with
I believe its a legitimate weapon. The devs either can't or won't patch out the behavior, which means its practically a feature by now, much like HOIKs in Terraria, or quasi-connectivity in Minecraft's redstone.
I can imagine using something like this via some kind ship like the UNSC MAC cannons, sort of a front mounted weapon, nice alpha strike capability and good range too
Never forgot this. Experimented with the concept to see if I could make a stable/non-banable weapon design. Server I played on banned pistons, so I never got to use my design I came up with.
there is always option to propel it with artilerry shots timed together with release on merge blocks ;)
Imagine the power of someone putting this on a cheap drone and mass producing them. If one goes down then a dozen more guns are already firing.
I feel like this could be allowed on a server, with a very specific limitation. It can only be used as a fighter Catapult.
In terms of physics, what is probably happening to cause the round to do so much damage is probably the same reason graviton ram spike shooters do so much in From The Depths, and its in-game tick rate. What im assuming is happening is that the physics are set at a certain tick rate, the projectile has a certain speed initially, and every tick that goes by the object is teleported a certain distance forward. At lower speeds, its not noticeable and doesnt create issues. However, once you go past a certain speed, instead of colliding how you would expect it to, youre partially teleported into or tbrough the object, meaning you are essentially nullifying any kind of armour since you quite literally just teleported through it. So you technically mever hit the outer armour, you only hit the interior assuming this is what is happening
Oddly good timing because I was testing these out a week or so ago
I am truly astonished - people have harness the Wraith of Clang and have made a weapon from it!
These would make great tech 3 strategic artillery on a rover only server
i kinda wanna see this in battle. its so sick!
I don't consider piston guns to be exploits. Unlike other things people class as an exploit, they actually require ammo, have a large footprint, are very fragile, and difficult to build in a way that makes them usable. Its just a giant in-line catapult / slingshot, and technically one well placed railgun shot even on a well armored ship will make the weapon non functional
Ooh that would be a cool weapon for broadsides
Used to use 2 small grid piston jolt guns on my ships.....very dangerous when you get a hit but also very sensitive to dammage!!
Reminds me of my early days in SE before planets were a thing and playing around with gravity based weapons
I feel this is actually a valid weapon type, the way it functions is repeatable, reliable enough to be viable and even though it breaks the games "laws of physics" you can compare it to a bullet or something or a modded weapon but creatable in vanilla. These are also very unwieldy weapons because you have to rely on KLANG to actually use it, that means actually relying on it is tricky and dangerous. In my opinion, this is no worse of a weapon than a decent modded weapon (decent not overpowered) and no faster than a bullet. Using this for propelling a ship would be risky and iffy but using this concept as purely a weapon I can see vanilla MAC Guns being a viable strategy for a ship.
that is one very powerful weapon
Fire drop pods for orbital drops or at ships to get a team of engineers inside the ship.
Classify these as WMD's and allow them on your servers. By allowing this you will quickly see A LOT of new innovations in terms of armor.
I wanna see one of these in one of your servers, see how effective they are in actual combat.
i think it shouldn't be considered an exploit. Considering how hard it would be to implement this in game, if you could actually pull it off it should be considered a feat of "space engineering". using it like a static space gun for orbital launches though, is probably the most realistic way to utilize it.
The battleship weapon of choice
It was a combination of this thing and the death lotus that got me back into SE after my initial 100 or so hours
I remember making one of these like a slingshot and using it to chuck small ship parts into the moon orbit
Try building the UNSC Grafton around it. "MAC rounds?! In atmosphere?!"
I does some really good damage and penetration, but compared to a gravitygun i once build its reasonable i would say. With that gun i hit, provided a max ship speed of around 700m/s, other ships in 10km distance. The size does make it hard to use in battles but with jump drives you actually only need to get it antenna- or renderdistance
Could this weapon be used as a ground-mounted turret and attack orbital ships? Does the projectile have the speed to make the shot and does it lose all accuracy at a certain range?
I really wanna see a bunch of them arranged like the barrels of a gatling gun, the firing mechanism set up to fire them in succession 1/2 second after the last for a constant, concentrated bombardment.
Macrogun be like: "Not so mini anymore, aint`it?"
For the record he has put the steam page in the description
Finally we can harness the power of clang
Imagine that as a giant turret for anti orbital defence
I wonder how it would have compared using heavy armour to fire against. My thought being that the latter holes seem to be from the connector rather than the warhead itself. Is it due to collision damage, or is it due to two blocks occupying the same place at the same time and the armour getting destroyed by the game as it tries to figure out what's going on?
Isn't there a Small Grid version as well, or has that one become obsolete?
I have a question - would anti-rounds cages work against Clang cannon projectile (like, it will start detonation calculation and projectile will detonate on the armor, instead of the insides of it)?
It is OP, i can see why people would dislike these pointed at them and therefor go for banning them. The matter of fact though remains, it is done with available game mechanics where some folks have a deeper understanding of them and used that understanding to build these. So in a way these are well build weapons using core mechanics. In several mmog i have seen how the communities was at times successfully forcing the developers to fix the game by including such in the meta. It is not the players fault when a game does not work as it would be expected. So for admins it is an uphill battle to define and enforce rules against the use of these as they can only be arbitrary in nature. I'd rather have therefor a modder consulted who might be able to fix this, my modding non clang pistons. That though makes the game a touch more bland, as clang is part of the experience.
I'd say it's legit; true it's OP, but the job of an engineer is to take what works and implement it into whatever the situation calls for, the fact that it's possible within the base game means it's fair play.
curious now if it can go surface to orbit xD
Dumb question: Can you use the piston gun be used in a rotating frame to rapid-fire multiple barrel gatling gun?
Let the games begin
It's like an old timey broadside