Installing extra bedroom sockets to a ring main UK using a multitool and testing
2021 ж. 28 Ақп.
57 138 Рет қаралды
Making 2 x 1 gang sockets into 2 x 2 gang sockets and adding 2 extra sockets
Making 2 x 1 gang sockets into 2 x 2 gang sockets and adding 2 extra sockets
I appreciate how you try to show on video every step and explain at the same time unlike other electricians on youtube. thats how people can understand things better. I see other electricians on youtube, they just explain but dont show much, so you just get half.
Thank you 🙌🙌🙌
Just want to add... absolutely fantastic videos of how you deal with different jobs in detail. I'm subscribed to all the obvious sparky youtubers and your videos are exactly what apprentices/trainees want to watch to help further their knowledge. Most of the sparky youtubers tell u what needs doing and then fast forward to the finished job. But your videos are step by step and thats what I really enjoy about them. Keep up the good work and keep the content coming and you'll definitely get many more subscribers 👍
Thank you Dave for that comment, one of the problems I had when I was trying to learn more is that the KZheadrs do exactly as you said, say what the job is and then a couple of minutes later they have finished. We wanted to show the real side of being an Electrician such as what do you do when it doesn't go as planned! Thank you for watching!
100% true this. My construction knowledge is rather weak because on the railway everything is out in the open. This video helped me understand how to work on a property
More like these!! Brilliant and very interesting.
Great video, as a DIYer I find all these video,s useful. I know all electricians pull the pcp cable To split the cable open in the real world so great you showed it.
Nice and clear good tips. In US we even get bendy long drill bits that can go sideways or up and down for joists and top and bottom frame base.
ooooh, I feel an online shopping spree coming on!!
What tools do you need for this exactly? (web-links?) And what are the safety limits for drilling thru joists? I know UK have exact dimensions when running gas pipes thru joists in our Gas safety Regs, updated every 5 years.
New sub'. This is one of the best channels. Brilliant.
Great Vids and explanations.. Keep them coming.. Good tips for my part P domestic installation course.
Thanks 👍
i was under the impression that going along the wall any distance is a BIG no no, possibly even illegal. All cabling has to come down from the ceiling / up from the floor.
Nice job 😎
thank you Richard
If you indent the cable with side cutters where you want the outer PVC sheath to end then you get a neater end to the outer sheath. Nothing wrong with what you did, but it looks nicer.
Really great instructional video, much appreciated. The heavy breathing convinced me to give up smoking 🤭
Hahaha, no worries. From what I remember (it was filmed a long time ago), it was a hot day, and a very tight space! Thanks for watching!
Who needs smoking when you’ve got drywall dust to huff?
Hi, great vid, is that ok to use wagos in the back box then in terms of regs etc? I wanted to do similar groing through the wall behind and didnt want to just let a junction box etc hang in the void, it seems a much better solution. Thanks
As I have been insulted regarding my earlier comments, let me explain with full reference to BS7671. Firstly, there is a widespread misunderstanding that a ring main has to comply with the details in Appendix 15. Appendix 15 is, as it says, 'informative'. Others elsewhere have described it as 'constructive', not restrictive. It shows an example of a ring with spurs, using a 32A protective device and 2.5mm cable throughout. It states clearly though, that 'it does not cover other aspects of the design of a circuit such as protection against - electric shock - thermal effects - overcurrent - selection of equipment.' This puts the onus on the installer clearly to design the circuit for particular conditions, with reference to the earlier actual regulations. It then says, 'the load current in any part of the circuit should be unlikely to exceed for long periods the current carrying capacity of the cable. This can generally be achieved by: a list of items. Here the problems begin - 'locating socket outlets to provide reasonable sharing of load around the ring' is impossible for an installer to achieve, more so these days when lots of sockets are fitted close to each other, especially in kitchens. Furthermore, the only way to satisfy it would be to issue strict instructions to the user of the property that they must not plug in too many items close the the start of the ring. The diagram shows, for example, two double sockets and one single at the top left of the ring, where only 26A can be permitted. How can this be guaranteed. This diagram relies furthermore on 433.1.103 which is a peculiar exemption for ring circuits using BS1363 accessories, with or without fused spurs. This allows use of a MINIMUM of 2.5 mm cable, but again carries the proviso 'Such circuits are deemed to meet Reg 433.1.1 if the current carrying capacity of the cable is not less than 20A and if the load current IN ANY PART of the cable is unlikely to exceed the capacity of the cable. What does 'unlikely' mean? How do you determine that it is unlikely? In a modern house, especially in kitchens and utility rooms, you can't. I am by no means the first person to point this out. It is the caveat in 433.1.103 'in any part of the cable is unlikely' that is the problem. The very existence of the diagram in Appendix 15 seems to have convinced electricians that this is THE way to do things. In fact, you can wire a ring with 4mm cable, and run any combination of spurs or rings off a ring, or rings off a spur provided you meet the requirements of 433.1.1. The diagram may show only one double socket from a 2.5mm spur off the ring, but this is because more sockets than this is deemed to make it MORE LIKELY that the cable will be overloaded. If you wire the spur in 4mm however, you comply with 433.1.1 without any need for special exemption under 403.103 and can put any number of sockets on the spur while complying with the actual REGULATIONS. The fundamental requirement is that the cable be designed, not with regard to the max load that CAN be put on it (impossible with dozens of sockets), but that the cable be protected AT SOURCE by the protective device. Referring to 433.1.1 (ii) this means a 26A max protective MCB for 2.5mm or the use of 4mm cable throughout (rated 37A) with a 32A MCB. Unless those who have insulted me can provide reasoned arguments against the above in detail, then I think and apology is due. I would be happy to defend what I have said with regard to isolators with reference to the regulations if you wish. Lindosland - MIET MAES BScHons (electronics)
Sometimes easier to pull the skirting board off and route the cable down and along behind the skirting then back up to the socket thus avoiding cutting and patching where you need to drill through studs. Nice little video though. No nailgaurds required over the cut studs to prevent nails/screws piercing the cables?
Nice vid, need to get a Dr Electric mat to protect the floor like Nicks.
Hi and thank you for your comment. I do have one now, Adam bought me one for my birthday 👍👍👍
When going across I would use a holesaw in the plasterboard before the joist and use a wood bit with an extension to go through.. that way the cable has a bit more protection 👌 just an idea
cheer Chris, good advice, I might try that next time but yes I agree that way will offer more protection. thanks for the comment and thanks for watching
We get a metal plate here in the us which can go over the notch and protect the cable on the surface in fact we would have to put the metal plate whenever it goes through the joist as well to protect it.
👍🏻👍🏻 keep up the great content!
@@mathman0101 we have plates here like that, but they are rarely used. As our regs state cables concealed or buried in walls or stud at less than 50mm depth must have RCD protection.
Or you could just use the depth gauge attachment on the dewalt set to the depth of the plaster. That’s what I’ll be doing.
Great step-by-step videos. A couple of tips i've picked up over the decades: IMO I always find it safer to connect Earth(CPC) first on any wiring, voltage detector use & work from service to supply (Ex-Navy when we used to run emergency cabling). Nice tip on screw direction, thou to "cover-your-back" a photo of the screw direction is handy in case screws have been touched by anyone & can hold up in a court case. We normally have to take "before/after-shot" photos of every job especially the condition of floor/wood/furnishing damages from damage claim blames & helps towards quality ratings e.g. Trust-pilot, check-a-trade, etc. How do you tidy up the joist hole cuts? It looks terrible. I understand joists are obstacles but is there no other way to tackle this? Can external cable conduits suffice on extensions, even on 1 extra socket?
Thanks for the comment, I would never run trunking externally, it looks rubbish, I'm always open to ideas to improve this, 👍
Got a similar job coming up and was wandering how to extend the ring (wagos on 1 leg in and 1 leg out in back box )... no access to underfloor to split the ring and family member wants 2 extra sockets so by following your method this can be done quickly & efficiently. ( Adult trainee) Cheers 👍
yes, preferably extend the ring, if you're happy that another socket won't need to be extended in the future then you can just spur it, but the best option is as it is here
@@DoctorElectricKZhead with her wanting 2 extra sockets back to back between rooms i think extending ring to 1st socket and then spur to 2nd socket as otherwise I'll have too many cables with the run back to the wago socket.
@@daveharvey8425 perfect
Its worth noting to anyone new to the trade that if you do an insulation resistance test then there is a high chance that the USB socket needs to be removed for the test. I believe MK ones can withstand the 500Mohms test as required by BS7671.
You can IR test the BG ones too, if they give a false reading on L-L then I will test @250 L-E
Exactly. I don’t like usb sockets in power box’s as if the usb fails you need to replace the whole socket. Better to plug a usb into a standard socket as it is then easy to replace with any future problem. Also turn off the power when making good with wet plaster by the power socket!
Really enjoyed the video thank you. Hobbyist into everything electrical! But I do respect there are boundaries to what I can do! The part p regs are a little hazy in certain areas (avoiding outside plugs, bathrooms, etc!), would a job like this be notifiable or ok because it's extending the existing ring? Technically it's part of a new circuit but it's bound to the same RCD at the consumer unit. Hope that makes sense!
Hi Daniel and thank you for the comment and great question. This job wouldn't be notifiable as you're just extending the existing circuit. It would however require certification, for this job the minimum certification it would require is a Minor Electrical Works Installation Certificate. Thanks for watching.
Get yourself a jokari insulation stripper for twin and earth if you do a lot of domestic stuff. Makes it so neat
you been checking out my Amazon ordering mate? Just bought one mate, looking forward to using them on a downlight install soon, thanks for watching
My thoughts were the cable passing through joist had to b at 50mm or is that not right? Also instead of cutting out over joists use a 100mm holesaw to cut a circle out then can spade drill straight through the joists centrally that replace circles ? This saves time and dust is use a DADE with hole saw
Hi Anthony and thank you for your comment. It doesn't have to be at 50mm if it has RCD protection. In many cases it's impossible to get the cable 50mm from either wall as the walls are so thin. Think I might try that on the next one
Just a suggestion if upstairs you could have fed cable up from socket hopefully avoiding a noggin into attic and fed back down to other socket just a thought
Please could you tell me the make of the wire strippers you are using. Looks like knipex. Also where can I purchase one same as yours. Thank you and great video.
Knipex 6 in 1's
@@DoctorElectricKZhead Thanks, please could you send me a link as theirs similar ones at different prices. If you could that would be great.
Stupid question, but if you used these USB sockets and 2 plugs that equals 32.2A 2.5mm twin and earth is max 27A? Is this only safe because it can draw current in both directions 54A total fused at 32A If this was a spured and not connected would that make this style of socket dangerous and the user could over load the wire by 6.2A?
Unprotected wiring < 5cm depth should be mechanically protected to comply with current wiring regs.
Is it not good practice to place metal plates over the cable where it passes over the stud to protect the cable, since it’s tight up against the back of the drywall? I’m pretty sure in the USA that it’s a code requirement.
Great comment Mark, thank you, it's something I will have a look at for future similar installs. It's not a requirement in the UK as long as the cables are within the prescribed zones. If the cable runs out of the zones then you have to cover it with 3mm(I think) sheet steel. Thanks for watching
Taking it further (and as a DIYer) do you think when a cable is run through wood it should be protected by metal tubing even though it may be in the zone. Perhaps over kill ?
@@smoggydrones5664 I’d say that was overkill and maybe difficult in practice. A safe plate (Tool Station £2.57/10) is easy to fit and at least stops someone hitting the cable with a nail or drilling into it with a wood bit. But I’m just a diyer too so maybe there are applications requiring armoured cable but probably not for residential purposes?
a spark using a spirit level, that’s novel.
😂😂😂😂
Isn't it easier to up across and down?
Wise going with the green milk. Who has blue milk in their brew?!
Hi, I like the videos, well done, however, maybe if you edit the cutting times this would speed up the process. We do get the guest of it. Thanks, again well done.
Thanks for the tip! In my later videos I have edited the cutting and drilling times, thanks for watching
Owl eyes at 9.47. Creepy !
Any chance to show how the plasterboards were fixed?
From memory it was a stud wall
Hi, Thanks for a very informative video. According to the onsite guide section 10.4 page156 for framed walls it states that the position of sockets on opposite sides of the seperating wall should be staggered. You put the opposite socket back to back. Is this right or am I missing something? I must point out that I am just beginning my Electrical coursae as a change of career after being made redundant from my previouse job in Febuary 14Th of 2021. Please advse on this as you are more qualified and maybe I am wrong. Regards, Bill.
Hi Bill, Thank you for the question. I am unaware of that regulation but I will check it out. One thing you will find during your career is that you will always be learning. Thanks for the heads up and keep watching 👍
@@DoctorElectricKZhead Just watching the video, I thought you did 'half-stagger' the reverse side socket location, but then, if I'm not mistaken you ran into a stud on the far right hand side of it when cutting out the hole for the back box, meaning you'd need to notch out the stud a little to allow for the depth of the back box or move the back box slightly left and patch the hole on the right where the stud was and have 'less stagger'. Thanks for the video though, I enjoyed it p.s. I'm a DIY'r
So glad to hear you call them sockets. It really winds me up when I hear ignorant idiots call them “plug sockets”. Plugs are plugs and sockets are sockets, two quite different things!
exactly, my wife calls them that, it winds me up too!! haha
Plug is an adjective in that instance. It describes what the socket is for.
@@electricalstuff259 What a ridiculous comment to make. In this instance, more suitable adjectives for a plug or a socket would be ‘electrical’ or ‘mains’.
@@davepedantic 'Plug socket' is not a noun.
i agree, however i like to call my wifes genitals a Penis Vagina so not sure if i entirely agree
is it normal for back blate to wiggle about that much?
Thanks for the comment. It's fine for it to wiggle about like that. Once the socket front is on and screwed it will be solid. Thanks for watching!
Looks like a lot of work and patching.i would peal the baseboard back and drill my holes threw the studs at the base then tack the baseboard back. No holes and wire is run.
Hi John, thank you for the comment, if you were to run the cables down and along the bottom, that qould be harder I think, also the cable wouldn't be in the zones. Thanks for watching
Would fail an inspection. Please do not. Potentially very dangerous. Maybe allowed in USA.
Did I miss something here from old socket you only needed one wire to new and then pass one wire to other socket in other room.
Hi Adreen, thanks for the comment. From memory I think we installed 2 sockets here, you can only install 1 spur from a ring final circuit, so if you wire 2 spurs from a socket on a ring then it won't comply to regulations. Thanks for watching!
i thought to run cables horizontally you had to stay in the safe zone, 150mm from floor and ceiling.
That is incorrect, check your on site guide, it will show you the zones, there are no zones on the floor edge. Thanks for watching.
Where's your glamorous assistant? 😆
she was doing her proper job, just with me part time at the moment
@Doctor Electric I thought this was his proper job 😆
@@RichardArblaster noooo, if I had him with me all the time we'd never get any work done, just mess about all day!!
@Doctor Electric 😆😆😆
Haha Hoping to go full time once I complete College Richard :)
why dont you just remove the skirting board and make holes in the studs and run the cable through the holes?
Hi Mihai, In British Regulations, if you were to do this then the cable running behind the skirting board would be outside of cable zones so therefore wouldn't be allowed. Thanks for watching.
@@DoctorElectricKZhead Right. I was wondering why you didn't. I live in Uk for 7 years and my wife and I just bought our first house 4 months ago. I wanted to add a double socket but making a hole into the drywall is a no no for me( not because I'm not capable to do it but I hate plastering). Maybe I'll hire someone to install a new socket and plaster the wall as well. Thanks for clarifying that.
Great video, except for the " Hammer's" part, YNWA!!
Nothing wrong with your approach and keeps the number of tools down but you could have used a router to make the channel through the studs you encountered.
1) No fly lead on the metal back box? 2) I hope you would repair the wall with a bit of polyfilla or the likes and if you do you should show that for a complete job.
Hi John, can't remember the video content as it was filmed ages ago.... 1) Question, is it a regulation that you HAVE TO install a fly lead on a metal back box, or is there a quote which says that it's not necessary if a certain other thing is in place? 2) The job as I recall was installing the extra sockets and the customer was happy to fill in the wall after I'd finished. 3) Anything else?
@@DoctorElectricKZhead No that covers it. Cheers.
Why not go down and under the floorboard, no faffing with board work then.
More hassle mate, there was also a bed in the way
@@DoctorElectricKZhead Fair comment
With all that grunting and groaning I thought you was laying of off 😅😅
Why not use fishing roads to the last cut-out and pull the cable all the way through trying to catch it with your fingers dumb???
What u talking about Willis? 😂😂😂
Unless I am mistaken (or the rules have changed) this is dangerous nonsense. Firstly, it is not acceptable to turn off a circuit at the MCB. You must turn off at an ISOLATOR, because this breaks both live and neutral (essential just in case either the wires have got reversed, or a sudden short circuit elsewhere raises the neutral voltage with respect to ground to a dangerous level). Turn off the main isolator/RCCB even though this is inconvenient. If you insist on not doing this, then work with the assumption that everything is live (no touching), which is sometimes possible, for example when swapping a socket or switch for a new one. Secondly, the spur off a ring main must be in 4mm cable, not 2.5mm. The cable size at every point is determined by the worst case overload that can occur before the fuse blows or the MCB trips. For a 30A MCB this will be considerably more than 30A, maybe 50A, and 2.5mm cable is only rated at 26A continuous (less if enclosed). SInce it is the circuit protection that determines cable size, any number of spurs can be taken off a ring or off each other. The idea that a double socket can take 26A is irrelevant; that is under normal safe loading. Each 13 fused plug will take around 26A for a considerable time before blowing if the user overloads it (for example by using multiway adaptors). If the ring is protected by a 20A MCB, then 2.5mm cable can be used for spurs. SImilarly, a radial circuit can be protected by 30A or 20A MCB provided that 4mm cable is used in the former case, or 2.5mm in the latter. Again, any number of sockets can be on a single radial circuit, provided that the cable suits the protection provided at source. Put simply; it's 4mm for all cables protected by 30A MCB and 2.5 from a 20A MCB. The only exception is on a ring, where the doubling up of routes allows for reduction in cable size (though strictly speaking this has never quite made sense because it is possible to overload a socket close to one end of the ring with the other path of the ring providing very little support, especially if the ring is large.
Hi Lindosland, thank you for your comment. I can only presume that you don't practice electrical work in the UK. All points you raise are not correct, in line with British Standards 7671. Everything I have done in the video is completely allowed in line with the Witing Regulations in the UK. I'd be Interested in what country you work in, it's great to compare different countries Regulations. Thanks for watching.
@@DoctorElectricKZhead I am an electronics engineer in the UK with a BSc Hons in Electronics. Also MIET, a member of the IET, the body that writes the wiring regulations. I think you are wrong. Though I do not work as an electrician, I have been doing my own house wiring for over half a century, and I worked directly according to the IET Regs (now BS7671). I do not have a copy of this now - I think it wrong that it sells for a high price and is regularly updated, rather than being available to all online. However, while I know that some things have changed, I do not believe the basics have. An isolator has to have a wider gap when off than a circuit breaker. This is so that flashover cannot occur from spikes on the mains (eg from lightning). Circuit breakers only have a small gap. Dust and damp cobwebs can also cause leakage across this. I believe the rules require that you isolate to render a circuit safe to work on; and that means by turning off an isolator. I know that many electricians do not do this, but they are wrong to do so, and much that is written is also wrong. BS7671 is the authority, and I wish I could quote you relevant sections. The principle of a minimum gap also applies to double insulated equipment, for the same reason, and I have designed test equipment to that standard. While spurs are often installed off a ring with 2.5mm cable I am pretty sure this is not allowed by the BS. The fundamental principle is that all cables get protection in the event of a fault condition, from the source MCB. A 30A MCB cannot protect a 2.5mm cable (26A rating if I remember rightly) but needs a 4mm (40A), as a 30A MCB will sustain 40A and more for a long time before tripping. The Regs used to refer to 'close protection' with MCB as opposed to fuse, in this respect with different requirements because the fuse takes longer to cut out. There may be a problem in understanding the Regs because it specifies cable capacities along with downrating needed for hot environments as in ducting and when running alongside other cables. Then it specifies protection for circuits in terms of protecting the cable. The reader has to put together these facts, and I fear than many quick guides get this wrong.
Hi, I complete the safe isolation procedure as per good practice. The safe isolation procedure has been updated in 18th edition am 2 to include using a clamp meter to check for diverted neutral currents. It is perfectly fine to isolate at the MCB or RCBO(although many RCBO's are now double pole). If you look towards the end of the 18th edition am 2 regs book you will see that it's perfectly fine to spur in 2.5mm from a 32A 2.5mm ring final circuit, there is a diagram. I also have a very good understanding of BS7671 as I used to teach it and assess it. I'd be interested in other people's thoughts regarding this. Thank you.
@@DoctorElectricKZhead It cannot be fine, from basic principles, to 'isolate' at the MCB for two reasons. Firstly the MCB is designed to break the circuit under fault conditions, but not to provide sufficient gap to avoid flashing over on mains spikes - an isolator is not designed to break under load but does provide the larger gap. Secondly, isolation means disconnecting both live and neutral. Neutral is not usually bonded to ground (though it can be in some cases), especially in the countryside where earth rods are used, and there are circumstances in which the neutral can become live. A few years ago, in a storm, for example, my lights all flashed brightly and appliances were damaged when my supply voltage rose to around 400V. I later found out that the overhead neutral cable had blown down, and as I am fed with 2-phase from the transformer, the neutral had been fed from the other phase. I note that you do not actually say that BS7671 permits isolation for working on conductors by MCB only. I too would be interested in other''s thoughts. I may try to check out the latest copy of BS7671. An aspect of the IET Regs that always seemed to me to make no sense was the requirement that the number of sockets added to a ring by spurs must not exceed the number of sockets on the ring itself. This was obviously stupid, if only because it was possible to add another socket to the ring to allow another spur! Do you know whether this rule still exists. Many others challenged it in the past as I did. This is especially important in modern times because houses have so many sockets that running the ring up and down walls to each socket can add greatly to the length of cable, defeating the object of the ring which is to lower source resistance. I wired my bungalow using a ring around the loft, with spurs off junction boxes down to each socket. Not only should this be the preferred way to keep resistance down, but it reduces copper use, which we should be trying to do, makes wiring the sockets easier, and, as I strip the cable and fit through junction boxes without breaking the ring cable, it reduces the chance of loose connections and arcing. I do however use 4mm cable for each spur. I wonder if you would agree that this is a sensible approach, especially perhaps in a bungalow where access to the ring in the loft for new sockets is made easy.
Lindosland you really are making your self look very silly talking about something you clearly have no idea about,you may be an electronics engineer but your clearly out of your depth when It comes to domestic electrics, all the work carried out in this video is to current regs (bs7671)🤦