Are Pull Ups Useful For Climbing? Training Questions Answered!
In another episode of Ask Lattice, with Tom in the hot seat this time, we've got some of the most popular and recent topics requested by all of you lot out there!
Some really good questions in this episode - particularly around the areas of cross-training and additional non-wall based S&C work. As ever, there were also a number of you keen to know more about training as an older climber! Don't forget we've written quite a few articles and blogs on this topic as well, so get on Google and you'll find them really quickly!
Intro: (0:00)
Should you ever skip sessions due to being fatigued?: (3:00)
Is cross-training beneficial?: (5:24)
How best to manage skin condition?: (8:44)
Are pull-ups useful for climbing?: (11:09)
Tips for older climbers: (15:51)
Can you maintain fitness for climbing by training cardio?: (19:36)
Outro: (22:39)
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Female climber here who learned to do pull-ups after a year of climbing - absolutely it helped SO MUCH. It was like unlocking this magical ability. So relieved you didn't say that pull-up strength doesn't matter and it's just technique etc etc, I have had to learn technique every step of the way out of necessity and there are just some moves/climbs where you NEED some upper back strength. Being able to do pull-ups meant: 1) I can do harder pull moves which don't provide any/much in the way of feet 2) I have better endurance 3) I have more confidence and am less afraid of getting stuck up the wall, because I know I can catch myself more easily and I can downclimb (people, generally men, underestimate how scary and difficult downclimbing is for new, weaker climbers who can't lower their weight on their arms in a controlled way) 4) You have more of a safety net of strength if you fall or come across a tricky move. 5) You climb with more control and therefore can be more static and avoid lurchy, injury-inducing moves. Lurching back on your lats or shoulders on a catch or big crimpy pull can seriously hurt without that buffer there. PULL-UPS RULE. But yeah obviously I mean being able to do them, I don't train them every day!
Amen to this! I just learned to do them after five years of climbing and very worth the while!
>people, generally men, underestimate how scary and difficult downclimbing is for new, weaker climbers who can't lower their weight on their arms in a controlled way Wow, I never thought about that.
Who would've known that having more strength to pull you up will help your climbing lol
2 tips for all climbers if you wanna 1up your pull up game and see gains in climbing. 1. After you can do 5 to 8 pull ups in a row with good form (not fighting/kipping or stretching your neck to get your chin over the bar,) Add weight to your pull up, 5kg to start and work your way up. After a month of +30% body weight (~20kg) I was able to bodyweight pull up to my chest and the movement itself was much more smooth and controlled. How you add weight is up to you, I used #12 AWG Cu Conductor like a belt and squeezed with my thighs to lessen the pressure on my waist. I would recommend a soft rope or a proper belt/strap/harness as when I first started I only had #12 AWG Cu Conductor and the thin material dug into my soft mid section. You can also squeeze the weight between your thighs to lighten to load on your waist or to bypass the need for a belt/strap/harness if you're strong enough. 2. Set your pull up bar in a way so you can pull up into a 2 arm 90 Deg. lock off but have enough room above to fully extend your arm and grab onto something good (I have a hangboard above my pull up bar in my door frame.) You will then be sitting in a half dead hang/half 90 Deg lock off. You can then shift your bodyweight around to isolate different parts of your lock off arm. Remember; Quality over Quantity will get you the best results. Always start low and work up to find your +max weight to prevent injury
Nice to see you've started to use the timestamps on youtube!
Yeah can you believe.... only took us about a year huh?! :-D. The credit all goes to Sam our filmmaker .
Yeah especially since Tom likes to ramble.
for me pull-ups specifically were the solution for pushing my grade into the 7a range, because i hadn't ever done any excercising outside of just climbing and lacked basic strength.
kind of stuck 6b/occasional 6c and i've noticed the same. Going to go hard for pull-ups now and see what happens.
Cornelis Gräper I know Jonathan Siegrist has sworn by weighted pullups on every training session, but I would include a few weeks in cycles of rapid pullups, weighted pullups, and volume of pullups, in that order.
on cross training: i’m a bit of a gym junkie, yet pretty scrawny considering. but over the years i’ve boosted through grades from a beginner due to that extra strength and conditioning. even my deadlifts and squats come in handy on the technical slabs! it has also helped when i’ve taken weeks or months off climbing due to financial reasons or otherwise- two or three sessions and i’m back to normal because i’ve been working my body and keeping the muscle mass there. but the main thing that has let me down in forearm and hand strength, which i’m starting to train more at the gym. normal gym is cheaper and closer than climbing so it’s a no brainer overall. i’ve gone from the goal of gaining muscle to look good, to very specific goals to help climbing like muscle up, front lever, single arm chin up, single leg squats, etc.
I think fatigue is a tricky subject. How many times have you felt fatigued and had a really good quality training session? I know I have. Or felt great and not been able to complete the warm up. Again I have. i also think that training history, years under load if you will plays a role in the ability to train multiple days. Although totally agree as we age recover takes longer and so higher intensity shorter sessions are advised. I believe the evidence suggests we loose 5% muscle mass eery decade after age 30. It may be more!! So doing the strength hypertrophy work becomes even more important in our 40s-50s and beyond.
Personal note about cross training and what to do when unable to climb: I didn't climb at all for over half a year due to gym closures, and did yoga at home instead. I have just started climbing again and I'm climbing at almost the same level as I was before. The increase in coordination, balance, and flexibility is really noticable.
I had a similar experience - working at home, 2 small children - I managed to make significant flexibility and mobility gains in my hips and hamstrings together with a better understanding of my body and breathing, through regular yoga practice. Combined with finger boarding, some suspension training ( I's, Y's and T's ) and pullups / pushups - I was able to climb better after lockdown than I had before. It did take a while for contact strength and more powerful, dynamic movement to come back, but with stronger fingers and better mobility I had enough session endurance to focus on these once the walls opened back up
Great video thanks, really professional looking and sounding. Content excellent as ever, particularly as a time limited older climber.
Love it. Great info as always.
Thought this was a particularly helpful episode. Especially the questions/answers around pull ups and being time limited, both of which are very relatable to me. Thanks Tom!
+1. I discovered the channel via videos showing advice on the wall (I still prefer those videos), but this episode was really good!
Doug Copestake thanks Doug!
Great answers (and great questions)! thank you
Rope climbs (7 m hanging from a tree out the back) have been particularly beneficial as a change between pullups (on wooden rockrings) and fingerboard sessions during the Melbourne lockdown for me. Combined with regular running I have dropped a lot of fat and gained a lot of strength. I do see there being a place for running, it definitely helps burn off fat, improves VO2 max for endurance, and offers mental respite from the training indoors. I am in my early 40's. Can't wait to be allowed to climb again and see what the last few months of effort have done to improving my grades.
I'm used to suck at campusing and those movements which require explosive power. But after a month of pull up exercise, I have felt that my back muscles are more coordinated while campusing huge moves. Thus, I think pull up is more beneficial on learning how to use my back muscle then building pure strength (it helped a lot too tough).
pretty information. Thanks for the free content. Can you do a video on prehab and rehab finger exercise?
My primary critique is about the last block. If the person in that case is concerned about losing general fitness and then not being able to either keep their infective mass down (AKA adipose tissue & water) or basic cardio performance up then that's something they need to deal with before they'll be able to put in a quality session on a system board. As you had noted earlier, the base level of fitness is required to make other gains. On cross-training: I've found a measured amount of kayaking to be helpful in re-establishing upper-body & core fitness. These then allow me to focus on moving more efficiently when climbing.
As a trainer and coach, I am so glad that you separated and used the phrase strength-endurance power appropriately. So many videos use them improperly
One of the best ask lattices yet
Plus the phycological confidence you get from knowing you are pull up strong is invaluable.
Really interesting video, thank you. A question for next time - do you recommend taking a long (say three week to month) break from climbing once a year? I've read elsewhere that this essential to overreaching when you start the following year's training cycle and I was wondering if you agree?
From experience I found that training front lever became extremely beneficial for cave climbing. Improved ability to keep the feet up!
Really interesting ref cross training, for some of us climbing is (or certainly started out as) our cross training!
To be honest, that's most of my questions answered in one swoop. As an overworked, family man, in his late forties.... :-D ... The only question I could think of at the end of this video was about where to source time effective, climbing specific stretches to increase my hip mobility for high heels (hooks, not footwear for a raunchy Friday night out)...
Hey Hugh, have you ever tried yoga before? I noticed a huge progress in my male climbing friends when they started to integrate a little bit of yoga in their workout routine. yoga in general has a lot of moves to increase hip flex in a flow, but there are also a lot of videos on yt specializing on that! good luck!
I've been watching a lot of videos on flexibility and this is my favourite. kzhead.info/sun/jdVvj6iyrJ2ado0/bejne.html. (Also check out the science video link in the description). It's for forward splits, but provides tons of useful info on how to do any flexibility exercise. You'll also want to add in stuff for hip flexibility, so look up videos on yoga squats, pigeon pose, and cow face.
personally I really enjoy this video for hip flexibility. Nice pace for the follow along and personally have noticed easier range of motion doing drop knees and such from doing this a couple days a week. kzhead.info/sun/nc5rcaWAbZyYe6M/bejne.html&ab_channel=TomMerrick
@@Vairrion Thanks, that was the sort of thing I was after.
Funny that you talk about older climbers as those of 40 and 50. I’m 64 and are still able to do same amount of strenous training. In relation to what you talked about regarding cross training. I’m doing a lot of running and biking and believe it to be the reason I can still keep my level of climbing and respond well to muscular training.
Older climber here. Great advice for older climbers. I went through a long period of going to the gym without any focus and doing lots of volume of easier problems. It got boring. Not being afraid to tackle harder problems (so long as they aren't too crimpy) made it interesting again.
BTW: Older people dealing with really old parents also get squeezed for exercise time and the stress takes a toll on exercise ability. I really wish my doctor or someone had ordered me to do just two half hour weight lifting sessions a week. Would have lost less muscle and gained less fat for sure.
Nice video Tom. After seeing what's been going down on Instagram this week, what I really want to know is this.... can the formula of reduce volume / increase intensity help improve someone's rope-work? 😉
Great video. Love the trump at 19:47, proper broke my focus.
Hi Lattice Training & Tom 12:59: "i think they're highly relevant for climbers who haven't yet built up a sport specific level amount of muscle bulk in their back shoulders and arms i think it's a very good way of building up muscle mass that's relevant to climbing." Is there a way to determine if the pull up strength is "strong enough" for a certain climbing grade? Thanks
Pull ups are definitely more than 1% contribution to climbing ability. I'd say anyone who can't do at least 5 strict chest to bar pull ups could advance their climbing level simply by training pull ups.
I think it heavily depends on the climbing ability. A good climber (>8a) doesn't benefit a lot from pull ups and should focus on more specific training. Climbers with lacking physical ability which don't have enough pulling power for basic moves may train it better with pull ups, but would also achieve the goal with climbing specific training (Moonboard, System wall etc.)
@@mikegruber1771 a, 'good climber (>8a) ' would have the foundations of a pull up deeply engraved into them already at that point so I agree moonboard, specific training etc would be suitable for a high level climber as far as training goes, however those physicality stats such as strength and power are fundamental, a high lvl climber will always maintain it through outside the wall training, and if they were to ignore such things it wouldn't neccessarily make them a much more worse climber, but they would be more weak, being stronger can help you more with certain moves that aren't so technical. morale of the story; do pull ups
@@Ashb98 you might be surprised to learn that Alex Honnold can't do more than 15 pull ups at a go, when asked he just said he don't do pull ups that often
@@verbalwound5874 that's pretty wild, in his case i guess he makes up for it in other areas
I think they just didn't get into details. For those who cannot do a single pull-up the profit of gaining some level at this is huge - but then it's not that important anymore, because one usually doesn't just pull himself up the wall (hopefully!).
What would be the best cardio exercise for climbing. Would rowing/rowing machine be a better cross-training since it involves some amount of grip and upper body movement or do you think the difference between cardio excersices are irrevelant.
I've been climbing once or twice a week for 1-2 hours per session for over a year now, and I've climbed a few V5 boulders in my gym. So I decided to try a few V6 boulders, and now the nerves going through my left elbow are in pain. Should I just stick to lower grades, or keep pushing myself? Also how long should I rest after my elbow "injury"?
Thanks for your sharing 👍
Thanks Tom!
Would you say variations on inverted rows could be more climbing specific? (as compared to pull-ups)
Ruben de Klerk hmmm... well, they’re both useful. Hard to make a generalised call really. Neither has extremely high levels of specificity of course.
Question for Lattice - I recently lost half a stone after I stopping running regularly. I feel like some kind of cardio is important for overall health and fat loss, but given how much weight I lost when I stopped running, I’m reluctant to start again. What’s the best kind of cardio for climbing? For context, I’ve been climbing for 10 years, bouldering mainly and fingerboard 3 times a week.
these things you said about cardio are so damn true... i like running (just because its the most convenient way to lose fat) but when i am for a run to often i lose all my power in my climbing session and vice versa... Just to keep it simple if you want to get good in climbing climb often if you want to get good in running run often. In a complex sport like climbing is one cant maintain a high level with replacement excercises only
Yup, it’s a very tough and compromised balance 😬
Running may not be super specific, but I get out of breath far less often on sustained climbs and the approaches feel easier
How do people feel about weighted jump rope routines? I’ve built a lot of muscle and just recently started climbing and I couldn’t have done it without jump rope
The timestamps are godsend
Interesting your take on running. Horst says that running is good for overall cardiovascular health, which helps remove the lactic acid during hard pumpy sport climbing (page 162 in T4C). So, I agree that running isn't going to build forearms, but it's not without its gains. It's like saying that a good diet and loosing weight won't help your forearms; that's technically correct, but ignores the strength to weight ratio gains and rebuilding nutrients so critical to getting fitter. I understand that's not what you were saying, but going for a run (or similar) is useful, overall, to climbing success. (I'm also not suggesting that someone should run instead of climb!)
It just isn't the case, aerobic limits in climbing will always be determined by the muscles in your forearms, this is down to forearms improving in localised capillary density and your muscles adapting to be able to use its energy systems better.
@@sebastianflynn1746 So, I'm no expert in this (physiology etc.), so I can only go by what I've read. So I'm curious what you have to say to this: "as described above, aerobic activity that trains the large muscles of the body to increase consumption of blood lactate for energy will hasten the return of homeostasis (in the pumped arm muscles) at rests during (or between) strenuous boulders or roped climbs" (page 162 for Horst's Training for Climbing). Again, I don't have the background to know if that's wrong, outdated, or misinformed. But given's Horst's reputation, I doubt it's wrong or misinformed. Note I'm not saying running makes stronger forearms, it clearly doesn't, I'm saying it has other benefits not to be overlooked.
On the topic of skin management, I have eczema which affects the fingertips of 3 fingers, have you heard of/found any ways to help combat this? I am have tried a few of the common products (Rhino repair, Climb On balms, and standard moisturisers) to no effect and also seen multiple doctors to no avail, I've also tried taking a total break from climbing (including the 4 month lockdown in the UK) but no substantive improvements. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
I have excema but luckily not on my hands, but as an ex pole dancer I need good grip on ALL of my skin not just my hands so I still have some insights. Moisturisers doesn't work for me but more "oily" products like ointments do, but they can mean a lot of oil being released from your skin during the day. Atm I have a cleanser from botanics that you put in and then clean off right away, so it doesn't leave your skin "bleeding" oil over the next few hours. Otherwise the body shops body sorbet is generally "grip safe" as long as you put it on at night and don't climb straight away the next morning. I'd also consider trying different chalks as I know some of them can make excema worse. Best of luck ♥️
There are eczema specific moisturizes. At least here they have to be prescribed by a doctor, but they exist. Might be worth a shot. I think the one I have at home is based on hydrocortisone, but there are tons of different ones which might work.
@@timonix2 yeah! bepanthen excema worked for my partner's hand excema but didn't do much for my own, everyone's skin are so different so it's all trial and error with finding what works for you
Is it bad for climbers to go running in general? Like one day climbing one day running ecc?
Hey Lattice! I'm curious whether one can achieve adequate rest while overloading a seemingly separate system. For example is it okay to go for a long run the day after an intense fingerboard session or vice versa? At what point does it become counterproductive?
In most cases, it's still a "cost" to the body and you'll start affecting your recovery. It's a very fine line indeed and also a very fast path to either overtraining or poor returns from training.
Definitely interesting. I'm 30 years old, I have a 1 year old kid and 40hr/wk job. I have a 1 hour break each day and I've been going to the gym (can't climb on weekends.) I get 45 minutes of actual exercise time (travel to and from gym cuts into it). I've been going 5 days per week (M-F) since the amount of time each day is so low, I've been an athlete my whole life - I'm generally fit (former collegiate rower, 6' 3", 175lbs), and I feel fine but wonder how to use my time most effectively. I climb v4/5 (bouldering focus), have access to indoor boulders, auto-belay, typical climbing gym training equipment, and a Moonboard (have sent a few v4 benchmarks). I'd like to eventually be able to climb v8 or at least that's the goal I've made up in my head. Wondering where I can go from here. Can anyone help? Thanks!
I hit a hard plateau at 11c/v4 after 2 years of climbing. I was a little underweight at the time. Started incorporating weighted pullups combined with basic body-weight/antagonist exercises. Broke the V7/5.12 barrier in months!
Very helpful! Thank you!
There is a reason for doing pullups every day, grease the groove. This will allow huge boosts in the numbers one can do. But you have ti listen to your body and stop with the slightest overuse
What about stamina, don’t you think a person training every day pull-ups by the end of the year be a better climber than a every other day climber doing pulls
@@gabrielgagne3850 So, i am not that much into the science behind that to give you an solid answer but i guess that you may have more stamina, being able to do more pullups, but not being that much stronger (more weight or being able to pull more with a single arm to reach something).
I have a question about daily exercises. I do 75 pushups a day in 3 sets, and I find it does a great job for maintaining strength. I'm not seeing major gains towards being able to do more push-ups, but I also don't want that, because I'm afraid of getting too heavy. Would there not be a roll for doing something similar with pull-ups? To maintain a base, background muscle mass? Also, overtime, my body has become very, very comfortable with doing these 75 push ups.
Your body adapts after a few months of similar stimuli. You grew all the muscles your 75 pushups require, and your nervous system has gotten good at recruiting enough muscle fiber for it. The downside of this is injury. If you don't recover one weak "tweak" a muscle, or start some wear on a tendon, you're going to stress the same part the same way next day, and the next day, and the next day. Because of this its a good idea to vary your exercises every few months and allow some rest periods and deloads for your body to heal.
@@randommcranderson5155 Thanks man.
Yes.
Cross training note; my running has been improved by climbing.
fuyiy interesting! Not seen that before! 🙌
Weirdly I find this as well, not a runner (cyclist mostly) but try and get out once a week, I think it’s the stretching that helps me recover from the run.
I've found this too. I'm no sports scientist, but my theory is that the stronger core you get from climbing makes it easier to hold running form when fatigued.
What does "older climber" mean? Starting from 50? 40? Already 35? Sometimes it seems that everyone who is not 16 is considered an older climber nowadays.
rrrents there’s no defined boundary on this... it’s a slow transition for most and as we all know, the hormone levels amongst individuals can be hugely variable. It IS worth noting that you will eventually end up at one end of the scale at some point so it’s worth knowing the important aspects/changes 😊
@@LatticeTraining I definitely agree, I already feel that I need more rest than a few years ago. It creeps up.
@@rrrents 35 and up I'd say is older
@@Snowbound2643 Thank god, I still have a year.
7:43 dat quick correction :D
With your talk on running and swimming not transferring to climbing in a significant way, why it may not make you stronger in your forearms, if you get really good at running or swimming you will probably end up being really good at breathing. That kind of aerobic awareness can do a lot on the wall with recovery on the wall as well as staying focused while relaxed. I know if i have allergies or something and my breathing is inhibited or more difficult, climbing is an insufferable act
Well I destroyed my skin for my first few weeks of climbing that 2 weeks break, and now I didn't destroyed my skin for past 2 months (because it is strong enough now)
My strongest climbing is also when I’m in peak biking shape
Are you launching anything that is not hosted on Facebook?
I absolutely disagree with nearly everything you said about pullups. They're just simply an amazing exercise to build a strong back and biceps. There doesn't really seem to be a limit as to how strong of a back you need, every grade and every climbing style will require more and more. From personal experience, I can say I've noticed that people with stronger backs tend to struggle a lot less in projecting next-level grades than people who have weaker backs. At the very minimum, having excess strength can help you feel more confident on the rock. And can help you manage cruxes a bit more easily. Simple fact is, there's no replacement for technique. But you will never use proper technique if you can't hold onto the wall. "Someone" once said, "there's no such thing as too much power". Just look at Alex Megos.
Very good video. That said my eyes hurt every time i look down in frame and see shoes on a nice padded armchair
Yeah we know.... sorrrrrry! 😅😬
I’d say train at first if your a noob, climbing is not only about strength but skill as well, you’ll improve much faster doing it every day, when your actually good, then this applies
What age do you become an ‘older climber’? Asking for a friend...
Everyday you become an older climber:). At 55 I am still getting older, but climbing is keeping me younger.
Gerald Camp superb answer, that made me smile on my birthday 👍🏻😊
19:50 this person has children... they're a parent. XD
i tried doing pullups on my fingers and damn nearly ruptured my ring finger pulley :(
feelsbadman
Fingerboard pullups are ill advised except on edges where at least a 20+ second hang is standard, aka a warm up edge. Even then, have to be aware as you lift the forces on the ligaments in the fingers will increase
Everyone is wondering if Tom does Crossfit now..
Tristan Mayfield nein, nein!!!
40s ... older? Bugger off mate! I perform better than ever now. OK, probably I also train more than ever...
Anyone else noticed that Tom is blinking every single second?
And now I can’t unsee 😂
@@rachellim3297 same :D
Reads Timestaps, skips straight to 15:51, not just need to info for fat and old climbers :)
I have way better cave endurance when my pull up count is higher.
After 25 I'm already noticing that constant battle
But running or cycling makes you fitter overall
That sad face, when you find yourself in the last two questions...
I think the maintainance question was really bad answered. As far as I read maintaining strenght levels requires less stimuluss than improving. and 1 session a week will maintain a lot more than none.
Moffatt did loads of pull ups. End of.
End of his elbows?!! :-D But yes, the pull up is a great tool when used well!
Get those shoes off the sofa !
rastaroumain but they’re reeeeeeally clean 😁
You talking rubbish re. the running. I trailrun using runningpoles and my forearms, arms, shoulders, chest are trashed after every session, especially on hills.
you want to know what was the next recommended video? "Ask Lattice: EP.10 Pull Up Training For Climbing" so uhm... kind of a clickbait title maybe? just reference that video, feels kinda strange to answer this in another "Ask Lattice"
first