QueerCoding The Joker: An Analysis
A video essay about the history and prevalence of queercoding the character of The Joker despite the push back against him as an actual queer character. The negatives as well as the potential positives. Featuring several talented artists!
The vast majority of these images/music/videos do not belong to me. See my sources below and if you have a specific question about a image, feel free to send me a message.
Featured Artists:
ask-jokeboi.tumblr.com/
dracze.tumblr.com/
joe-kerrs.tumblr.com/
mellie-art.tumblr.com/
Sources: docs.google.com/document/d/176qDSqwHJG5_oHZJT2GqQ_49JzHCHisYgtEvrqQ-ito/edit?usp=sharing
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No Copyright Motion Graphics
Motion Graphics provided by www.youtubestock.com
KZhead Channel: goo.gl/aayJRf
MUSIC:
Dj Quads:
soundcloud.com/aka-dj-quads
twitter.com/DjQuads
instagram.com/djquads
kzhead.info/tools/usFqutyfTWRqGhC8kHA5uw.html
Music provided by RFM: kzhead.info/sun/qdmghc2DepeKamw/bejne.html
Music from filmmusic.io
"Prelude in C (BWV 846)" by Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
"Happy Happy Game Show" by Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
"Waltz of Treachery" by Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
"Love Song" by Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
License: CC BY (creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/)
"Le Grand Chase" by Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
"Evil Plan" by Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
"Harlequin" by Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
"Circus Waltz" by Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
"Cold Funk" by Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
"Midnight Tale" by Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Tango de Manzana by Kevin MacLeod
License: CC BY (creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/)
Jon's On Fire - Silent Partner kzhead.info/sun/nNCdd7Gke32HYJs/bejne.html
★ TABLE OF CONTENTS ★
00:00 Introduction
00:59 Part 1: Who is The Joker?
03:02 The Joker's Sexuality?
03:25 Part 2: Queers & Codes
03:30 Defining Queer & Disclaimer
04:14 The Codes
06:29 Camp Intermission: Commence
09:14 Camp Intermission: End
09:15 QueerCoding
10:56 Part 3: Get Used To It
10:57 But, Harley Quinn?!
11:55 But, Just Because He...
13:02 But, Batman?!
14:43 But, It's Bad?!
15:46 Part 4: A Defense
15:47 1.Relatability
16:13 He is Poor (Eat the Rich)
17:18 He's Mentally iLL (Who isn't, ammirite?)
21:27 Abuse (and resilience)
22:32 2.Queer Rage
25:24 3.Redeeming Quality
26:17 4.Reclamation
27:52 Fandom! ft. AskJokeBoi, Dracze, Joe-Kerrs, MellieArts
30:03 Part 5:In Conclusion
33:25 Thank You and Credits!
Jokes on people queercoding their villains, now people think they’re hot.
It backfired.
As someone who simps for inhales: Nicholas D’Agosto’s two face Cillian’s Scarwcrow Cory’s Riddler (Every female villain to breathe) And Cameron’s Joker- Yes. Yes it did.
@@GalacticProductionss me too me too 😩 I wouldn't be mad if Harley Quinn killed me
@@GalacticProductionss "Cillian's Scarecrow" So goddamned glad that wasn't just me. Goddamn.
@@ThePhantomSafetyPin LOL SAME. MY FRIEND SAID HE LOOKS LIKE JEFFERY DAUMER
"Oh so your favorite trope is enemies to lovers?" "No, it's enemies AND lovers" give us more enemies and lovers stories. It's what the people deserve
YES!! Like the Doctor and the Master! Enemies and lovers at the same time for decades!
YES
Jesus the good true miraculous God who healed me of my years long chronic breathing issue that plagued me most every night, instantly in an anointed prayer, loves you all 😊
read homestuck for the love of god there is a word for this
@@clockwork.creeper i have read homestuck before and your right it would be a kismesitude
Batman putting on his eyeliner=Joker putting on his lipstick
a
YES!
Yes
Not gay
@SilentGhost ur gay
I would love it if you would make a full video on Batman's relationship with mental illness in general.
+
YES
kzhead.info/sun/apyrmcylg6lslps/bejne.html
pls! yas!!
Jesus Christ loves you my friends
30:00 also, consider this: the dc universe canonically has infinite alternate universes within it. so every universe that dc fans think up is basically, if not outright, canon.
oh god OH GOD HOLY SHIT BATMAN AND JOKER HAVE FUCKED *SO* MANY TIMES
So that quite literally means that all rule 34 of every single character in the DC universe is canonically real
@@dannyboidee well shit
@@dannyboidee *"OoOoOoOoOoh NoOoOo!"*
"Oracle, the Batwing malfunctioned and I've been teleported to the atmosphere of Earth-3469420, I need help finding a way- GOOD LORD WHAT IS HAPPENING DOWN THERE!"
"...fans are writing and ask all these questions, 'I'm bullied in school... I'm afraid to come out'. They say to me, 'Could Luke be gay?' I'd say it is meant to be interpreted by the viewer... If you think Luke is gay, of course he is. You should not be ashamed of it. Judge Luke by his character, not by who he loves.” -Mark Hamill, famous for playing Luke Skywalker and, of course, the Joker. My personal canon is Joker is biromantic asexual. edit: dude in the replies really thinks asexual people don’t exist
how can you be romantic but asexual. those are antithetical concepts
@@freddyfrickhorn78 No, asexual people can have romantic feelings but not sexual ones. Love doesn’t have to be sexual. There’s a difference between aromantic and asexual people.
@@freddyfrickhorn78 babes i think that you might be a bit stupid. asexual people don't experience sexual attraction but can experience romantic feelings. don't look at sexuality as a purely biological thing when the social aspect is just as if not more important.
@@freddyfrickhorn78 I dont really understand how the fuffy romance of kissing, handholding, and living with someone you love cant exist without also having sex...
@@freddyfrickhorn78 Idk about you, but I'm attracted to people because I actually LIKE them, not just their body and how good I think they'd be at sex. Romantic relationships don't need sex to exist. While it's not the same as asexual, people can still be in relationships and remain celibate. I'm actually a biromantic asexual person myself. I've had crushes before, but every time I think about having sex with that person, I feel sick. To me romance looks like kissing, dates, holding hands, and potentially marriage, not sex. I see them as 2 distinctly different things and that might not be the case for you. Most people's romantic and sexual orientations correlate with each other perfectly. Mine don't. There is no RIGHT way to experience attraction, but there are different ways and you need to respect that.
I want to recommend this vid to anyone who says Joker isn't gay. I hate the Harley Quinn argument because she was only being used and she went on to find Poison Ivy anyway. But seriously, I never new that there was a version of the Joker and Batman who's identities are Thomas and Martha Wayne!
I like the idea of joker being Bisexual
Joker isn't gay never has been never should be it would ruin his character it's kind of sad gay people trying to find gay representation where it isn't stop trying to bring down the best characters in comics you just because you feel bad Batman joker and gun they're not making out in every issue just it's really annoying for normal people when you try to ruin beloved characters just for your own sick pleasure
I'm in the middle here, i understand that there's certain conection between Batman and the Joker.. the Lego Batman did that relationship wholesome, but it's different when you try to push that generalization to every fan...please stop this sexualization of characters in general, nobody watch dark knight or JOKER thinking about their sexual pronouns...
@@wololos How is explaining you think a character is queer "sexualizing" a character?
@@wololos Amen brother pretty annoying
As a queer man, I never before thought of the joker like this. So much of him seems to be claimed by some of the worst parts of hyper-straight, masculine groups. But this video genuinely enlightened me to the reality of the character beyond the average fan interpretation. Thank you for making this video, as it gives me a new way of understanding the history of camp, queer coding, and media in general.
I find great answer to all hyper-masculine groups in new "Joker" movie, where his first murder is literally some misogynists attacking woman and then him on ableist premise. It's almost like authors want to say to guys like this "no, you are not The Joker"
@@The0Stroy I love this point.
I totally agree; there’s another really good video (fifteen minutes long or so) about queer coding in the lego Batman movie that was also phenomenal and REALLY expanded my appreciation for the 80-year dynamic between the Bat and Mister J. Very good stuff.
@@laurelsilberman5705 I think i actually just saw that video last week after my roommate wanted to show it to me after we saw the new batman movie, so your timing on this was perfect! and I loved how lthe video showed how the lego batman movie displayed the ability for a more optimistic batman that i feel we even saw hints of in the new 2022 movie (though in the 2022 batman it's much less queer coded, or at least not in the same way as lego batman lol)
@@failedartguy If you want a really amazing self-contained one-off that not only focuses like, half on the relationship between the joker and Bruce, but also happens to be the best Batman story that is it’s own thing and doesn’t really connect to any other major universes, you have to check out the White Knight. I really love their relationship in that, and it’s one of a few stories where in order to triumph over a greater threat than either of them are capable of taking on by themselves, they need to work together to have any shot at winning.
Isn’t it crazy how back then and even somewhat now that “selfcare” or caring about ones physical appearance was/is seen as “fruity” or gay. LOL I’ve always found that funny that if a man cares enough to make himself look decent or deem himself as beautiful is considered homosexual
All we trynna do is look pretty for the ladies. 😔
Fellas,is it gay to take care of yourself?
@@sffb8295 exactly my point. I love to make myself look good
@@diavxl3971 fax girl love when we look pretty
@@jvnxiie2441 as a bisexual woman I can verify this statement. Men can do whatever they feel like as long as it isn’t hurting anyone. Wear a dress for all I care. Men in dresses are freaking awesome.
I can easily see how Batman is the love of Joker's life. After all, without Batman, crime has no punchline
The Joker lost it whith Harley when she nearly killed The Bat.
Make the Joker gay again? There was a point in history where he wasn't?
The Eighties! He was with Harley Quinn, then.
@@darlalathan6143 I thought it was the ninties
Depends on if you're talking about the bronze, silver, or golden age joker
@@darlalathan6143 being in a relationship with a femme doesn't mean the character is straight, the same with harley
can we stop put sex in all this characters and stories? i honestly like the lego batman and the love history with the joker and batman, it was wholesome ... but right know its always about what type of sexual preference heroes have instead of likeable stories about them... ! its joker heterosexual , gay, asecual demisexual? my response ...Who the fuck cares
Looking forward to one day when we can actually get a canon story where Batman and Joker are an estranged couple, with Batman more on the "respectability politics" side of things and Joker on the more "be gay do crimes" side of things and their fights having the same timber and cadence of Batman's current fights with Catwoman, i.e. you can be sure they do the do when the comic fades to black. :V
the closest thing we have to that are the tell-tale cut out voice lines :( (search it up) they couldn't add it in because homophobes exist
@@stephaniecourteoreille5972 I didn't forget "I was just teaching Bruce how to...reach for things"😭😭😭 The cut lines were so funny and I wish desperately that they were in the actual game 😭😭😭
In this universe joker should stick to more tame crimes
a queer person can dream...
@@medieval._ please don’t
I'm trying to inch my way into working on a video about Lego Batman, and this video helped me out a TON to understand how the Joker has been queercoded throughout his history! This is such a fantastic video and I'm so glad I got to watch it
i just watched that it was great, i’m glad u led me to this video
I watched this vid after urs. It was so good! :)
i watched this video because of you! thanks
Sames.
Watched it, thx! :D
first thing he says when sees spawn "what's your name you beautiful boy" but nah is not queer
Straight as a fucking ruler 👌🏼
@@square_kirby7852 is there an issue here 🧐
@@square_kirby7852 I am not sure if my elastic ruler can be called straight, i mean it does bend a lot.
@@magicsquid3020 No sir just joking
Spawns face is kind of a wreck so he might of been being ironic
even as a child i loved villains that were queercoded the most. i can't explain it, but they were always sympathetic and fascinating to me, no matter how horrible their deeds. they intrigued me and their mannerisms spoke to me. they seemed .. kinda approachable?? the ones that come to mind first from that time are Scar, Ursula and Hades.
Same
I burnt myself on this take. You are a god amongst men.
'50s parents were afraid of their darling child reading Batman and screaming "If the Joker can be queer than why can't I?!"
10:42 saying Frankenfurhter from Rocky Horror is 'Queer Coded' is like saying cheese looks like it might be a dairy product XD
Literally. Dude straight up created his own man, and seduced nearly everyone in his castle
ikr the whole point of that musical was to make fun of homophobic/transphobic tropes and make you question the "norm"
I see the joker being more pan. He’s doesn’t prefer white wine or red wine. It’s all about the wine itself. Also this was a beautiful video. People should see this.
That's the best way I've heard pansexuality explained
@Commodore X that sounds rlly cool tho
Wait is that metaphor widely used or is it from Schitts Creek? The first time I heard it was on Schitts creek and this is the only other time I've heard it.
@@rue8778 I absolutely stole that from schitts creek
He’s straight
I want to chip in on the thing about the “ableism” in Batman comics. Joker (At least in The Killing Joke) clearly had depression before he became what we know him as, but was poor, he couldn’t afford help, a traumatic incident such as losing his wife, and becoming physically scarred by the chemical waste, caused him to snap, it made his mental illness only worse, it made him psychopathic, because he never got any help before it got to where it was, if he was given the help he needed, if he could afford it, that “One Bad Day” if him falling into the chemical waste would only physically scar him, but mentally, he wouldn’t become how we know him. (One could also argue he’s slightly schizophrenic, with his mood swings and manic episodes.) Killer Croc was born with a skin condition that caused him to be crocodile-like, instead of his mother giving him help, she decided to abandon him, leaving him to join a group of wrestlers, and become a freak, it was curable when he was young, but no one wanted to help him, that had him build up anger and hate, not only because his skin condition effected him mentally, but because he was abused, heavily, while he was young, he could’ve gotten help when he was younger, when it could’ve been cured, but no one wanted to. Harley Quinn was a mentally vulnerable woman who was mentally (and physically) scarred by an abusive partner who taught her to do awful things, and nobody noticed until it was too late, in more recent comics, since she’s gotten with a healthy partner (Poison Ivy) she’s become less homicidal, and less insane, more of an Anti-Hero, her partner is helping her. Oswald Cobblepot had neglectful and borderline-abusive Parents, and had multiple mental illnesses growing up, but again, nobody treated them, he got worse, now, it’s unsure if he could get better. Two-Face was physically scarred, the traumatic incident allowed him to develop Dissociative Identity Disorder, twisting his morals, in Batman: The Dark Knight Returns, he actually gets therapy and surgery to fix himself, and he gets better, he becomes “normal” again... But not for long. Batman villains are never evil because they’re mentally ill, they’re evil because their mental illness, or physical deformities, were never given attention, or treated, they’re left to grow and get worse, because of the society (of one they do in fact live in, sorry, couldn’t help myself.) around then, the poverty they all experience, they can’t afford help, so they’re only left to grow their disorders and illnesses, become what society sees them as, monsters. Batman villains are a commentary on how mental illness is overlooked until it gets too bad to help, because of how society treats mentally ill people, not a commentary on how mental illness in general is bad.
It's more complicated than that. My easiest rebuttal off the bat is the harmfulness of the ableist caricatured imagery of the generic "crazy person" in a padded room and straitjacket which is presented just for the aesthetic and shock value, and not with any empathy. It's used punitively, when in reality it is to keep one in psychosis from harming oneself, and is rarely if ever used anymore. It would've been so easy to just not do that. But it hurts a lot as someone who has been in psychosis.
It hilarious how so many die hard comic dude bros get so mad about Joker being gay. When so many movies and shows have hinted this relationship for years. People get so mad about their favorite character being gay. Especially when the Joker is the epitome of queer coding of characters in fiction. That’s like looking at Wonder Woman not knowing the creator had a bondage fetish. Which explains the lasso, or how Catwoman has a whole dominatrix vibe wearing a leather jumpsuit with a whip for crying out loud. 😂 Honestly, Joker being gay makes him a much interesting character than assuming he was straight from the start.
It's especially funny when said comic dude bros call LGBT fans pervs for suggesting anything sexual about superheroes and supervillains, believing comics are for children and that gay rights activists are trying to corrupt their kids into child drag queens and trans adults, lol!
I know RIGHR
@@darlalathan6143 what’s so funny
They’re frenemies, not lovers. If being gay makes someone more interesting, that says a lot about a person
@@silentghost751 not being gay itself but the way that plays into their dynamics with other characters like batman and harley quinn, if he was just gay and that had no effect on his other relationships it wouldnt effect anything but because this is fiction his dynamics with other characters do make him more 3 dimentional
I have always said Joker doesn't care about label and lines except as things he can cross. Why would it stop with his identity and sexuality. He is fluid AF. Batman and Joker r obsessed with one another albeit in different ways but when u invest that much emotion it will color and complicate all other emotions towards the focus of ur attention. Atleast that's my opinion.
You don’t know Joker then
@silentghost751 Jesus Christ for someone who apparently loves comics you have literally no imagination
@silentghost751 Girl really can’t have any fun, can you?
That Joker loves Batman montage from 13:10 - 14:00 is chef's kiss perfection
Having struggled myself to explain this to others, especially when grappling with the problematic side of the interpretation, I am so thankful that you made this video. Hell, I'm not just thankful, I'm impressed! There are some lines in this video that cut straight to the heart of the discussion and are pretty powerful! It made me, an old veteran to this character, feel like I was discovering them for the first time. So I really must thank you again and keep up the good work!
Not everyone is gay
@SilentGhost The Joker is, though, did you not watch the video?
@@imogenbooth6061 I did. Not convincing
@SilentGhost What a bleak world you must live in. Enjoy it, though - I support you in your "Joker being straight" fantasies!
@@imogenbooth6061 what? That’s not fantasy, the opposite is. Watch Fast X and tell me if the villain is
WAIT WAIT WAIT - This makes so much more sense... it even makes the relationship to harley make more sense... she loves him and he loves that she loves him but isnt in love with her. Yes theres the abuse too but it makes it make so much more sense than just hes a villain. and then you throw on the batman layer - and you got yourself the most wonderfully neurotic love triangle... Joker treats Harley like Batman treats Joker.
He likes Harley in a twisted way
@@silentghost751 he likes her as a plaything or tool. not a lover. Hes posessive not protective which is the difference. Hed happily throw her under the bus to further his plan
@@gloomysunday9836 love hate relationship
@@silentghost751 but when that love/hate relationship is batman and the joker, it's somehow not acceptable? you're literally just homophobic.
27:27 As a queer person who is used to getting criticism and hate for the way I personally view and interpret my favorite queer coded characters, it really helped to hear something like that. i really needed it. thank you
Not everyone has to be gay
@silentghost751 Not everyone has to be straight, Mary
Oh my god. As a queer person who loves the joker, you just made me admire him so much more, not only for the fact of the queercoding but also of how he doesn't hide through a mask, you tell him to keep quiet and he proceeds to laugh, this is something that I've never noticed until now, this video made me change my whole perspective about him and his treats. I swear this is amazing, thank you so muchhhh!
THANK you for actually bringing up Telltale for this, he’s one of my favorite versions of the Joker simply for how he’s portrayed while still being a compelling character
Same. He’s not gay though
@@silentghost751 he’s canonically bisexual, with a crush on Bruce. The DEVs confirmed it.
@@U2Two no, he was with Harley. He was friends with Bruce
@@silentghost751 look it up. They confirmed it. Also, bisexual means you’re attracted to both male and female. So he could have been with Harley at one point and still at some points had a crush on Bruce.
@@U2Two that’s not how it works
i'm Queer. It's astounding to me how, as a kid, i knew all of those characters mentioned in qc examples to be gay/queer (as in, i knew the boys liked to be girly and girls liked to be boyish like Ursula). i grew up knowing that Batman and Robin were a pair, the Joker was into Batman and that Batman and Superman were into each other too. Tbh, the old comics blatantly used to just show this, before the effing censorship arrived. i still remember reading Batman for the first time and thinking, whoa, he's just like me! (i had no idea at that time, about gay, nor of societal suppression. i just thought a boy can like a boy. Simple). And when i saw Joker in the animated series, i instantly loved him for i knew he was just like me too (sans the psychopathy). He didn't conform to the heteronormative narrative. As a kid, i thought he was like me, someone who likes to dress up and act like a boy, but he was also girly when he wanted to.
That’s too young. You don’t know comics
@silentghost751 When were you old enough to learn that you’re a cishet man?
Personally, I think of the Joker's sexuality as very ambiguous, just like the Joker himself. The less we know, the better. Although, I DO like to joke about the Joker being in love with Batman and wanting to have sex with him. EDIT: Oh wow, this comment got SO many likes!
I like to think of his sexuality as extremely unclear but he likes men and that’s all we know There’s no denying he’s into a man at least but how he feels/felt about women or anyone in between or beyond the binary is confusing and no one knows for sure Because that’s true to his character and other aspects of him as well Knowing that he for sure has/does like a man doesn’t make his sexuality any less ambiguous because it’s such a large spectrum and yet gives just enough information that people CANNOT just assume he’s straight so it makes people wonder, “what is he?” since otherwise they assign him to the “default”
@@kimuires is it considered still as being gay if the thing he’s attracted to isn’t specifically the male but more the person and the experience than anything physical?
@@creed8712 Thats considered bisexual
@@jasperallen7682 does that mean black cat counts as bi since she was physically repulsed anytime spider-man took his mask off?
I can get on board with that. His motivations in general are often contradictory, and subject to change at any moment, for a variety of reasons. His sexuality, whatever it may be, is a small part of that. My only objection to painting him "gay" is that he's never been that consistent.
I really want a comic where Batman holds and comforts the Joker. Fight crime with love not violence.
closest thing to that is probably lego batman
same, i see how it may be unrealistic but i just want fluff and happiness for gay couples 😭😭
and then joker stabs batman in back of the neck because the joker is literally a homicidal maniac that has caused the death of countless people across dozens of different iterations.
I feel like everyone has collectively forgotten Joker beat one of Batman's children to near death with a crowbar and then blew him up
why would you comfort a psychopath like him?
"Joker is straight" Also joker : *Proceeds to have a date with batman, Calling him batsy*
Honestly, I came out of this video with a greater respect for Joker as a character. Probably because I am a lesbian who is very starved for representation of any kind lmao,,
@Clown_prince_of_Crime Hudson I just said that I respect Joker more? It's not that serious lol
@Clown_prince_of_Crime Hudson yeah, I don't think they should ever actively make Joker gay or anything. I just think that hinting at something like that like in the Telltale game or in the Batman lego movie is enough. I would love to see more representation in media but with Joker I'm satisfied with just a "it could happen in a different universe". Hope that clears it up lol
@Balloon Catcher Hudson have you not seen joker at all or even watched this video
@Clown Prince of Crime Hudson hes gay idc
@Grayson Yeah, even back in the 90s prior he was pretty heavily queercoded. Did you not watch the video?
all the dc villains have a groupchat called "be gay do crime." this is my new headcanon
You're wrong. The groupchat is called "The Alphabet Mafia"
Oh god, I see Riddler having an elaborate puzzle for them to solve just to get the password for the chat, much to the others chargin.
You have such a clear voice, great for videos like this! Anyway, this is a very thorough and useful analysis, and I particularly love how you closed with the parallels between Batman and Joker! Aaaand the fact that you pointed out that Joker is camp through and through! Personality, appearance, PHILOSOPHY...no wonder we don't wanna see him straightwashed!
Even 3 years later I still love rewatching this video
The fact that so few people have seen this masterpiece physically hurts me
Masterpiece?
his narrative and cultural immortality is like,, the antithesis to the bury your gays trope lmao
I literally re-watched the best of griffin mcelroy earlier today and now you turn out to be an AMAZING VIDEO ESSAYIST holy SHIT this was good to watch, as someone who hasn't read. any comics and has only seen the gritty batman movies, this has been super illuminating, thank you so so so much for this!
I generally believe joker is the most creative and most complex and unique villain ever
My first conscious awareness of Queercoded Joker was the animated version of Frank Miller's "The Dark Night Returns." To me, it felt like Frank was trying so hard to make a case for testosterone-laced red-blooded American manly man fascism that he had no choice but to write his biggest villain as the antithesis to that, which apparently in his mind meant making him kind of effeminate by showing him applying make up and saying things like, "Hello, sweetie," upon hearing of Batman's resurgence. It felt incredibly strange to watch Batman be an absolute terror to other people while still condemning the Joker for... what exactly? All we really saw the Joker do here was kill some people in a studio audience, beat up Catwoman, and break his own neck. The whole book felt lazy to me, but this especially so, because it was incredibly transparent that the majority of Joker's villainy was being conveyed through the fact that he was a bit of a dandy.
Dark Knight Returns Joker didn't quite fit with the rest of characters in a way I could never articulate, but you nailed it. It was also in his illustration. Other characters bore signs of their age, greying hair, wrinkles etc, whereas Joker was drawn weirdly doe-faced and ageless. Usually he's creepy in appearance, but he erred on the side of pretty in comparison. Maybe that was meant to be creepy through being effeminate, but it really wasn't. When considering the story it just seems they were trying to use a guy who wasn't properly masculine as a scare tactic.
I do think that frank miller wanted to say “ gay bad” with his joker, but like he killed a lot of people in Dark Knight Returns
"All he did was kill a studio audience, beat up Catwoman, and break his own neck?!" What more did he have to do, blow up a planet with a Joke Star??
@@darlalathan6143 I was about to say this, like, what is this person talking about?
Holy shit I'm not the only person who doesn't like Dark Knight Returns
I have always seen him as a comedian with Batman as a tough audience. He fell in love along the way. Being an androgyne person, I see him more as a gender than a sexuality anyway. I also see him as all too sane. Thank you for the part on poverty. I was raised to feel ashamed of poverty. Now I am proud of my poverty roots.
Fell in love with who? What about poverty?
I think we can even narrow down Joker's "Queerness" He was attracted to Harley, a Doctor of Psychiatry. He has some form of attraction to Batman, who he interacts with by posing traps and puzzles that challenge Batman on an intellectual level. He finds Superman shallow and boring. I would argue that Joker is Sapiosexual.
WAIT YOUR RIGHT??
As a queer mentally ill person, i have always seen myself in The Joker Sometimes i get scared by how i see myself in him, othertimes i find it a comfort
Just for the record being Harley Quinn´s boyfriend is super gay
They don't have gay lesbian solidarity they have gay lesbian undying hate
I feel there isn't any defined answer to Joker's sexuality because there are so many iterations of him acting certain ways in a certain context. I think that since different creators are going to portray Joker in different ways as they always have, its entirely up to what the creator portrays, mixed with how the viewer interprets. I think the explanation is best expressed in the last speechbubble of Watchmen, "I leave it entirely in your hands".
Original is straight
So... gaymers rise up?
Hey I know it’s been a year but I just wanted to say that I think about this comment under this video a lot. Thank you for this.
Hell yeah, gay mermaids forever
I like that Joker is beyond definition. No checkboxes, or all checkboxes.
I am currently playing the Arkham games and oh boy, they really made explicit some points about Joker feelings towards the Batman. They even made Joker serenaded in the credits, songs about love lol, he have monologues saying that his life change after he meet Bruce, that now he have an shine in his eyes and honesty it was kind off great to see this.
Hey this is Mellie-Art! Thanks so much for including me in this amazing video
probably the least important thing to comment but i just watched the part with a pic of prince and was again struck by what an amazing joker he would've made
I love the Joker a lot. I've always viewed him as Asexual, but this video was amazing and totally sold me on a new reading of the character. Also I might have to get that tell tale batman game now...
Troy Baker and Anthony Ingruber are probably my second favorite versions of Bruce and Joker after Kevin and Mark. Both seasons are great, but John doesn’t become Joker until the second season. He’s not gay though
This was so good! You put words to a lot of thoughts I had about the Joker, and I'm incredibly grateful for that!
everyone who’s saying “who cares about if he’s gay or not, it’s not important, stop forcing sexualities on fictional characters” guess nobody can be straight in fiction according to that logic lmao. heterosexual is a sexuality that the majority of characters are. why can’t some of them be other sexualities? how is it forcing it on anyone or anything? guess batman can’t be with cat women lol. joker is clearly obsessed with batman and in some versions he’s admitted his love for him. some versions he purely just wants to fuck with batman and ruin him but there’s other versions where he’s obsessed with him because he does love him. he’s literally argued with cat women over batman before !! in my opinion he is either bi or straight up gay based on what i’ve read/watched/played in video games. it’s very easy to see it based on him either admitting it or hinting at it.
This is such an interesting video and it scratches that itch for my love of analysis. Watched the entire thing and loved your thoughts
Jokes on them, usually villains are hot as hell
I haven't finished watching yet, but I was directed here by the sin squad's video on Lego batman as a queer story, and I am very glad to have landed here. This seems very thorough
As a big big Joker fan who just so happens to be big big gay, I really enjoyed and appreciate this video :)
I prefer queercoded villains being viewed by queer people. I don’t feel like non-queer people will ever get the same idk ‘vibes’(?) out of it that we do. Also I sometimes prefer queercoded villains over queer heroes bc that’s who I want to see. Not necessarily murderers and such but *weird* queer people, *queer* people. I want to see queer characters that look and dress and act visibly queer. I don’t want to see ‘normal people’ who ‘just so happen to be lgbt’ (I used lgbt purposefully btw). Want to see characters who *do* ‘make it their whole personality’. I want them to rub in our faces just how gay and trans a character is and I want that character to unapologetically own it. I want more ‘not respectable’ queer characters (not less ‘respectable’ ones though)
I love tell tales version of Batman (the enemy within) The series really reminds the player that John is human too, and that your choices with words can affect people. The enemy within shows that yes, John has mental illnesses (because he was in Arkham) but that’s not the driving force of what leads him to being joker, and actually gives him a back story. John and Bruce’s relationship is actually pretty decent too, with the vigilante ending being an attempt at joker actually trying to protect Gotham, and show Bruce how he could be a hero just like he is. It also shows how much joker/John idolises Bruce and relys on his trust. Whereas the villain ending shows how betrayal and hurt from Bruce has led john to spiral, not that he is mentally ill. it’s also cannon that John is bi, and actually loves Bruce, and depending on the players choices when conversing with john you can also get endings where Bruce says he loved john, and thought of him as a friend, which gives both john/joker and Bruce more of a history and makes for a more interesting dynamic between the pair. I got into it maybe 6 months ago but only got the game about 2 weeks ago and it’s my newest obsession, I couldn’t recommend a game more
9:46 12:34 14:43 24:22 29:23 30:19 OK BUT- HE LOOKS REALLY GOOD
I recently found the complete series of the 60s Batman with Adam West, it's goofy, campy, queer themed, and if it was made today it would've been called a parody to Batman. I love it!
This was such a well done video. I'm glad McElroy compilations lead me to your channel, I hope you make some more essays.
I go with defining camp as "the tragically ludicrous, ludicrously tragic." I have also added Joker's "I am not weird, the world is weird." Now I have to include the awesome funhouse mirror observation.
1) this was an amazing watch. I can’t wait to show this to my homophobic cousin who idolizes the joker. 2) i want to give you a quick thank you for that quick mention of asexuality somewhere in the middle. As an ace, I’m so used to asexuality just being shrugged off and ignored, or even actively hated on and purposefully misconstrued. I’m so used to people saying aces aren’t oppressed and you so gracefully disagreeing with that literally made me pause the video and take a minute to compose myself, I’m not used to being stood up for so casually without any prior discussion. thank you, it actually means a lot to be seen like that.
this is making me realise how much i would relate and love the queer coded characters when i was a child, i have now realised I'm pan
20:38 "...not only relatable, but inspiring." Thank you so much ❤️ I've tried to explain this before. You said it so well. Thank you 🌈
I've watched this analysis 3 times now I'm literally obsessed with it
pov you're one of the homophobic cishet boys who idolizes the joker watching this video
is that your pov or are you jus kiddin around
POV you’re one of the heterophobic boys who wants everyone to be gay
And are we even gonna talk about the new Harley Quinn show?? Where its literally outright said by Harley herself that Joker loves Batman?? And throughout the show he obsesses over him more and more. Calling Batman his and all that, and not to mention Harley and Ivy get together as well??? Not the greatest show imo but its hilarious
Omg whats the name of the show? I did know about poison Ivy and Harley Quinn but not about Batman and joker hahaha
@@lay_P its called The Harley Quinn TV show im pretty sure?? (You can watch it on HBO) But yeah its obvious Joker has a bigger admiration/obsession with Batman than he does with Harley lmao
It’s not the originals
@@silentghost751 baby we all know it's not the original, that's just how it works, every author writes a new story using the same characters as they see fit and surprisingly not every author makes the characters exactly the same wow (who would have thought). That is a fact and you're right and it still can't take this interpretation of gay Joker and in love with Batman away nor does it invalidate it
@@thegirlyouddiefors9500 it’s not a part of their established characters. You can’t just ruin a character for politics
I've never felt that Joker was gay; however as you show in the video; I do believe he has a twisted love for Batman. We see this in most good versions of Joker; He has an obsession with Batman, and its not a 'I must kill him' Obsession; no. There is a level of honest and true romance, not really sexual attraction imo, but its not a healthy romance it is as twisted as he is. But to me, at its core, it is as I said honest. As he says in many interpretations; Batman 'gets' him, he's his other half. Everything about him is attractive to Joker. I think this what some creators means by its not a normal relationship. By normal, they mean the ideal romance like what gets play up in love movies or around Valentine's day. It's typically what comes to mind for most people when they think romance. But that's not Joker and Batman's romance. Theirs is a game of cat and mouse, of one-up-man-ship. Its a chase and pursuit. One of Joker's biggest goals which does get stated through various iterations; is to make Batman laugh. Every now and then he achieves it, but that's part of it; If Joker's goal is make the world laugh, through whatever twisted means he finds humorous, Batman is his biggest challenge. If he kills Batman, he's never gonna make this man that is the star of his life laugh, and be happy. It's also gonna end the wondrous game that is his romantic pursuit. Its also why I feel his relationship with Harley is/was so toxic and one-sided. To me, when it comes down to it; Joker only has eyes for Batman romantically. Harley is a wonderful person that can play off him well; but She'll always come in second place to Batman. So while he can occasionally have his good moments with her, she's also something of a reminder of what he doesn't have so he also takes out all his frustrations out on her becuase she also kinda represents his failures, least imo, and He's sorta settling for her yet still persuing his main desire.
I wonder how the championing of the Joker as an aggressively straight icon lines up with people who grew up around school shootings? (Yes, I know the panic about Joker sympathy inducing gun violence was overestimated. That's not what I mean.) I'm meaning how our popular understandings of 'psycho' villains are no longer the serial killers but instead the 'lone wolf' entitled white men/boys. The people who like the Joker in this way skew young enough to fit this, although that may be coincidence since most young people are on the internet in a different way than older people. It's a different sort of power fantasy, and interestingly aligns with cinematic Batman losing his no guns, no killing persona. Although action movie Batman retains his other aspects, they don't seem to be the way his strength is expressed - very action movie, not very Dr Strange-style control, stoicism, and strategy. I'll admit though, I could be wayyyy off with this, since my Batman love is through animation.
Oh I'm sorry don't have the brain power to fully reply to this but, I think you're hitting on some really interesting ideas. I think there is a kind of awful connection between the two now (batman and gun violence?) that has a lot of merit.
Actually, I never much thought about it before right now, but I'm asexual, and always vaguely assumed the Joker was too. He doesn't seem to give a shit. He gets his jollies from trolling and causing chaos. I think of the bits where Harley Quinn tried to turn him on and he shoved her away in disgust. Not because she was a woman, but it seemed like more of an, 'Ugh. How boring. I'm working on something that will show off my GENIUS over here!!'
This was a great video! I was having a conversation about this topic the other day, and how I really dislike the entire concept of Joker (2019), that we’re not supposed to know the Joker’s origin story (among everything else wrong with that film.) I’m curious if you’ve watched Gotham? That show does some very interesting things with the Joker. And I personally think it’s another example of canon queer Joker, although none of the writers have said that was their intent (that I’m aware of) but it’s pretty impossible to read the character as anything other than being in love with Bruce. I definitely recommend the show if you haven’t seen it, for no other reason than baby batjokes. Anyway, really enjoyed this video, hope you make more like it in the future!
This is a brilliant video essay! I recommended it to my Psych and Sociology class as it's a stellar look into a character/person
Even though I don't really like the term "Queer-coding" I do have to agree that it's blatantly obvious he's bi. And though I personally don't think he's "In love" with Batman (I think he's indeed just obsessed with the idea of his opposite and the whole good vs. evil never-ending battle thing), I think that some writers just interpret it that way and that's fine.
23:17 As an ace person, I felt so validated
oh my god, this was so beautifully explained. i could watch this over and over again. my best friend(who's name funny enough is john) was really really into all forms of batman and joker in every form of media. i've known of batman and joker for awhile now, when i was in 5th grade i liked it, but i was pretty unfamiliar with the entirety of the story including the joker. it's been a week or so, and i am now absolutely obsessed. the joker is the most perfect villain of all time, and, i believe, the staple for queer villains. thank you for this video!!
I honestly love this, and its why Death in the Family (or of the Family, i get them confused) but its the one where Joker has cut off his face. He's so openly in love with Batman in that story that DC altered the TPB so it wouldn't be so explicitly gay. Art should never be censored. Joker is GAY!
I still love this video and how much work you put into this! People in the comics try to read the joker to try to see why he does what he does and there always met with a dead end. But you did it in a thirty minute video! I really love this video you did amazing ❤❤
i was so surprised to see dracze and half-way across in this video lol this was really perfectly put together! 💗
This is a beautiful analysis, thank you for making this video. It's very fascinating to see this all broken down like this; somehow I've found myself liking the Joker even MORE
Honestly, after looking into his relationship with Batman I genuinely feel he legitimately loves Batman on his own sick and twisted way. I find it honestly very intriguing
I think this video is just such a perfect way to explain to people about queer coding and how it can help people, this video was executed in such thought and detail. It really has made me understand so much more about joker queer coding and mental health I guess, I really hope this video could reach more people
This analysis is amazing!! thank you so much for bringing this up
A very insightful and well-researched video!
My dude made one of the best DC video essay analysis videos ever and postin dog tired as a follow up
I love your take! When I was a child, I used to read a lot of comics and consume Batman media. I’m more a marvel girl now, but still. If I were to put a label on jokers sexuality, it’d be pan or fluid
Straight
@@silentghost751 ur so opposed to the idea of lgbt joker it's funny, why do you care so much? is there something you'd like to share with the class?
@@thegirlyouddiefors9500 not everything has to fit with the woke agenda
You deserve more views and likes, all your videos are so well done! By the way, greetings from Argentina! Just to show you how important and amazing you are, that you are being heard by everyone on the internet
I’m not gonna lie. I saw your video pop up about two or three years ago and chose to ignore it but now I wish I had clicked sooner because you’ve caused to view the Joker very differently than before. I already spotted a lot of the queer coding in multiple media but I had no idea just how much he had been coded. Thank you and congratulations on a just a fascinating and wonderful video. I hope you are doing well and have a wonderful day!
this is great the joker is obviously in love with batman but in his own twisted way in going sane he thinks he killed batman and he gives up crime and creates a whole new personality because he cant exist without his dear dark knight i always say that batman is jokers one true love and joker is batman's best friend they need each other when Jason asks why batman hasn't killed the joker for killing him batman says he cant not because he doesn't want to he straight up says he thinks about ending his life ever waking moment but he knows he wouldn't stop at joker he needs him to stay alive so he wont slip fully into the darkness joker is the thing that keeps batman grounded he serves as the reminder that batman could snap at any moment there doomed to an eternal dance its like joker said in the dark night some people are destined to chase each other forever the only thing i dont like is the editing could be better but other then that this well made keep it up
If they think the joker is their ideal representative of homosexuality, they’ve got bigger problems
What a good mf video. Such a well organized, beautifully-constructed, and insightful analysis 👏 Great talking points, history review, and mindful presenting. Hell yeah.
This is really informative! great job!! i love you!
I finally found a video that talks in depth about the joker's sexuality. I needed this. Thank you I will see this multiple times lol
I come back to this video often, it's a really good video essay
Me too.
Coming back here in Pride Month to appreciate this masterpiece once more! Thank you so much for making this video essay, it helped me understand a lot more of queer coding and the ending send chills through my spine every time. ✨🏳️🌈❤️😁
Also you made me realize that one of my favorite characters of the Batman Universe, Jonathan Crane aka “the Scarecrow” is also queer coded. Which made me love his character even more, thanks again.
Awesome video! Very well researched and excellently stated. Thanks for making this!
YES!!!!! god all of this is so good i love this analysis so so much thank you for shedding light on it