Inside the B-17 | The dangerous missions of the Eighth Air Force
The Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress dropped more bombs than any other US aircraft in the Second World War. A lot of these aircraft flew out of bases in England, as part of the USAAF’s daylight strategic bombing campaign, alongside the B-24. The B-17 was known as a hardy, reliable aircraft, yet in the first year of their campaign over Germany, only 36% completed their required tour of 25 missions. What made the raids of the Eighth Air Force so dangerous? We take a close look at the B-17, take a look inside the fuselage and cockpit, and hear from two veteran B-17 crew.
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CREDITS
Footage of Sally B at Duxford Air Show courtesy of Planes TV: / planestv
B-17 shot down over Schweinfurt © USAAF
Tail Gunner: United States National Archives via D. Sheley
My father was a radioman in the 94th BG and his plane, the “Helno-Gal” can be seen at the 5:30 mark. He is 98 and still with us, the last survivor of his crew. They were shot down twice, limping back to friendly territory the first time, and not so lucky on June 13, 1943 over Kiel, Germany when only 4 of the crew survived. He trained in B-24s before being transferred to B-17s and he has a clear preference for the Flying Fortress. He says that the Liberators were faster with their Davis wing but the Forts could take a lot more punishment, dish it back out, and get their crews back home better than any other plane of its day. I’m sure that since he fought in the B-17, that is part of the reason for his preference but he is not alone in his assessment. We visited the Imperial War Museum in 1993, 50 years after his last mission, and it was a wonderful experience. I’m sure that he will enjoy this video. Well done!
Wow, that is all I can say. And make sure to tell him that the newer generations is still amazed by what he and his generation lived through.
@@plainlake I will do that. His biggest fear is that young people will forget all that they fought and died for, so your message will definitely be well received. Thanks.
@@HariSeldon., please give your father a deep bow from me as well. I can not help but use this opportunity to say hello to him with your help. I'm from Belarus. As a child, I was told a story of flying fortresses and their heroic crews. That's when I fell in love with this plane and the brave people who took it into the skies. Tell your father that the memory of their feat lives even in such distant corners of the world as my country.
My father was also a radio man, and he too preferred the B-17. Perhaps it was just being comfortable with what you know. But, he met another veteran at church who had flown in the B-24. His friend said that even those in the Liberators wished they were in the B-17. We will never know for sure.
What an incredible experience that must have been for you and your dad to go though that museum together. We must never forget the sacrifice they made. I am happy for you that you still have him around. With gratitude to him and his crew. Peace.
My dad flew 35 missions with the 384th Bomb Group stationed at Grafton-Underwood. First mission July, 1944. 25 as a co-pilot and 10 as a pilot. He was 21 years old. He told me how "lucky" he was to not be in a B-17 in 1943 when the Luftwaffe ruled the skies over Germany and we didn't have the P-51 long range escort. Many people do not realize that more young men died in the 8th Air Force than the marines lost in the war in the Pacific.
If my information are correct. First mission on 29 July 1944 to Merseburg, Germany. Last mission on 04 December 1944 to Soest, Germany.
Respect to your dad and all those brave, often young, heroes 🫡
Thank you for showcasing this magnificent aircraft. May America 🇺🇸 and Britain 🇬🇧 remain close friends and allies forever
Amen
No thanks.
Well said Ronald!
UK is USA's number one Ally!
@@speedracer2336 And vice versa. You are after all our Mother Country. You taught us how to rule ourselves, to challenge ourselves, and strive for better. THANK YOU 😊
My great uncle Harry Rusk was the radio operator on B-17 #42-30598 of the 385th bomb group that was shot down by a BF-110 near dunkirk and ditched in the english channel on August 15th 1943 with no survivors. The other crew members were Pilot Ed Stone, co-pilot George Larson, navigator Jim Atkinson, bombardier Darrell Taylor, engineer Tony Kalisco, ball gunner Bob Paige, waist gunners Jim Glaxner and Elvin Rankin, and finally tail gunner Sam Burns. Lest we forget these brave aviators.
The position was radioman/waist gunner on B-17. At least according to dad, who was one. There were two waist guns and the port side also had the radio next to it.
so sorry to hear this! I lost an uncle on his first bombing raid in a wimpy! The other survived! It is so sad to lose someone you don't even know? I hope you might have read more about your great uncle? Sigh!!
My great uncle was a pilot in the 549th Squadron, 385th Bomb Group. His primary aircraft was the War Horse (42-31764) but he flew some missions in other aircraft. He completed his 35 missions in October 1944.
42-30598 ditched 10 miles north-west of Dunkerque at 19:56 hours. No 1 and 2 engines were out. About 300 feet above the water, the left wing came off. The plane nosed into water.
My father was a Tech Sargeant in the 8th Airforce, 100th Bomber Group, 418th Squadron. He flew 30 missions in a B-17 as a radio operator. Like most American veterans of WW II, he never spoke of his experiences. As I learned more about the B-17, and its role in the war, I finally understood the sheer terror that airmen faced in that conflict. I was finally able to tour a B-17 once at a local air show. It changed the way I felt about all those who served in WWII, both men and women. He passed away in 2011. I am eternally proud that I was blessed to have him as my father, and I hope that all offspring of that generation feel the same.
My father was a ROG, too. Our fathers probably knew each other, if not by name, probably by face. The "Bloody 100th" was one of the most famous, or infamous due to casualties, outfits in the entire AF. My old man has been gone for almost 45 years and hardly a day goes by when l don't miss him.
My uncle piloted the B17s, never talked about it, just came home and raised a family and lived his life
My grandad was also a Tech Sgt and radio operator/gunner. 2nd USAAF.
My grandfather served on a B24 and never spoke of his service but once and he spoke for 30 minutes about the radios they used.
God bless him. What a hero. RIP..
I’m an American Airman currently serving. I was fortunate enough to be stationed in Mildenhall a few years ago, and the thing that impacted me the most about the American Air Museum in Duxford was the graphics on the glass panes outside of all American aircraft losses during the war. It was staggering. Thank you, people of the UK, for memorializing that and keeping these stories alive.
One of the most poignant parts of the museum
These brave men should never be forgotten and speaking as an Englishman, I am very pleased they are memorialised at Duxford.
Fantastic. I very often come to the American air museum at Duxford to see this very B17. Learnt a bit more about her today. These are my all time favourite aircraft. Seeing Sally B fly also always brings tears of such joy to me. Such incredible machines and amazing stories of heroism
Many thanks!
Don’t forget also the B-17s, B-24s and B-25s of the Mighty 5th Air Force, that bombed and strafed Jap airfields and shipping in New Guinea, the Solomons and Phillipines, in the South-West Pacific theatre. In ‘42 and ‘43, their aircraft and resources were limited, whilst Roosevelt and Churchill gave most of the war effort to the 8th Airforce campaign against the “main” enemy - Germany. Troops fighting the Japs had another opinion and felt their brave efforts against the dominant Japs made them feel R & C felt the Pacific ranked second - as in second rate. 5th Air Force crews couldn’t have a beer in an English pub at the end of the day All they had was a rain-sodden tenant. Their flights often took 12 to 15 hours and some had to bail-out over the jungle, after running out of fuel (Kym in Darwin)
tenant - should be tent
@@kymyeoward306 your also forgetting the B-29 who became famous to make Japan surrendered
@@josiahrickens4556 interesting fact did you know for the nuclear bombs they dropped on Japan they were going too use the British Lancaster bomber because of all the bombers in WW2 it had the biggest payload, but the American airforce generals agreed for propaganda purposes it had too be a American bomber which understandable, so they had too do serious modifications too the B29s that dropped the bombs, ripping parts out too make room, fitting new hold rigs etc because the bomb was so big they couldn’t fit them in a standard B29. I only know because I watched a documentary on the Hiroshima nuclear bomb drop.
The bravery of these men is unbelievable. We are so lucky that a majority of us don’t have to experience this in our lives today. Thanks to all who served. ❤️
I've been researching a WW2 flying accident that claimed the life of my great uncle Flying Officer Victor Crowther RNZAF, he served with 224sqn RAF Coastal Command and the B24 they were in had some fuel problems, hit a couple of barrage balloon cables and crashed whilst attempting an emergency landing 30.10.1942. The reason I mention this is because through that research I have read a lot about the American Bombers (B17, B24, Hudsons etc) that served with the RAF in WW2. I have nothing but admiration for all the young airmen who flew in these aircraft and the others who kept them in the air. To have the courage to be able to climb into an aircraft not knowing if you are going to come home is a lesson for us all and we owe so much to these brave young men. Thanks for posting this video please do another showing the B24.
The 8th Air Force bomber crews suffered the highest attrition rates in the history of the US military until the MACV-SOG missions of Vietnam. Think about that, it took until commando missions inside of Cambodia and Loas where those guy's were operating almost entirely cut off to reach the type of fatality percentage number's that the 8th Air Force had in WW2.
@@dukecraig2402 thanks for pointing that out, I'm very aware of the huge USAF losses from WW2. The losses for the RAF Bomber Command were also very high, 57,205 aircrew were killed (about 46% of their operational airmen) by comparison RAF Coastal Command losses were lower at 5,866 but this was a smaller section of the Airforce. They were referred to as the 'Cinderella Service' because they were greatly underfunded and had a very important roll to fill. It was only with the help of the USA lend lease that they managed to get hold of the B24s which allowed them to close the Atlantic gap. The shortfall in resources was highlighted in the crew, the RAF used 7 men in an American aircraft built for 10. Each RAF crewmember would have multiple roles. We should remember the sacrafice made by all aircrews regardless of nationality or war - we will remember them. Best wishes to you from NZ.😉
@@pjb5757 I didn't compare their losses to other militaries during the war, I was very specific about saying "US military" when I was mentioning attrition rates. No need trying to turn it into a dick measuring contest, I don't play that game. This is a video about the B17 and it's crews and once again my comment was limited to "US military history".
@@dukecraig2402 I'm not trying to turn it into anything I was only trying to highlight my admiration of these very young brave airmen. I know this video was about the B17 which is an amazing aircraft. But, I've not long ago read a book called "The Forbidden Diary" by John L. Stewart who was a B24 Navigator (my great uncle was the Navigator in his aircraft) with the US 8th Airforce. He keep a secret diary of all his missions during WW2 it's a great read, you should have a look for it. Best Wishes.
@@dukecraig2402 Jeez dude.
My dad was a navigator in these late in the war from 2/45 til the end of hostilities in 5/45. He flew out of Thurleigh, 306BG. Had he been in earlier perhaps I wouldn't be here. I have his nav logs for 18 of his 24 missions. He'd fly several missions per week, sometimes every day, sometimes a few days off. He flew #24 3 days before the war ended. The logs were filled out during the progression of each mission from engine start to shutdown with entries every few minutes. Things like speed, altitude (most bombing around 25,000' or so), heading, outside temp (as low as -60°F!), observations, bombs away, etc., were all logged and timed. Amazing reading. Some observations were; "2 '17s collided ahead, both going down, 6 chutes" (there goes 14 men!), "Mustangs - red tails", "jets" (would have to be ME-262's), "flak heavy - inaccurate" "flak heavy - accurate" (!) and about 1000 others, things you only saw in movies. I also have a piece of flak that, where he sat in the nose, he dug out of the floor under the pilots' feet! There's also newspaper articles saved by his dad reporting on many of these same missions. Some of the most amazing were the daily articles about these enormous "airmada's" as they referred to them, 100's of miles long at the end of the war where 1,000's of these planes were bombing Berlin from sunup to sundown, every day, for over a month! My God what a freaking pounding we gave them in the end!
As an English man, may I say to you, thank you for what your dad did back then for us all! We must never forget what folks like my uncles and your dad did back then for us all thank you ever so much!
@@nigeldewallens1115 Much obliged! If dad were still around he'd probably just say, "Ahh, well, just did what we hadda do and made the most of it ... how 'bout one of those beers?"! 🙂 Then he'd go into one of his stories. Yeah, there were some good ones!
@@flyurway Thank you for replying! I do appreciate it! I recorded my mum and put it up on my wall! I cannot listen to it as it I still too painful! So if you wanted your welcome but if not I do understand! Take care and thanks again for the reply!
One of the most beautiful planes ever. So glad the museum has such a fine piece of history.
B-17s were used as fire bombers as late as the mid 1970s. I grew up near an airport and about 1955, I got to see 8 of these bombers flying together on their way to a forest fire in the Pacific NW. They landed at our airport to refuel. Once I was close enough to see them drop the red fire suppression material.
There was one in my area in southern CA.
Today, we can only imagine HUNDREDS of these roaring beasts overhead heading out; What a wonderful museum and collection. Sad that there are only 50 left of thousands, and simply amazing the bravery of the aircrews; Thank you to these men and women who served.
It must have been absolutely terrifying to have been a crew member when under attack, these were very brave young men .
no wonder America prospered after the war !! after surveying the horror of war at such a young age how could you not think you could do anything .like so many others i did not know how many accommodations my father received until after his death . his attitude was it was a job that had to be done
I don't know who our narrator here is, (presmably staff?) but I adore her knowledge and on-camera delivery. I haven't been to Duxford since before Covid19, but I can say that it's responsible for getting my niece into aviation as a helicopter pilot. I support your mission 100% and hope to come back soon. Good luck and blue skies to you all!
My grandfather enlisted in the Army Air Corp in 1943. He was in a ball turret on a B-17 with the 452nd bomb group. His crew/plane crash landed in Sweden the same year. They got back to England in late 1943, and went right back at it in another B-17 with the same name. Back in the early 2000s, they used to have this really cool reunion in Savannah, GA every year. I remember how sad it was to go back each year, and see less and less of them there. I imagine most are gone now, as my grandfather has been dead for about 4 years now. I can tell you being around those guys was incredible. It took a serious set of balls to do what they did. Thats a breed of men that you just don't see anymore. My grandfather was a hard man, but wow did I learn a lot from him. These guys/gals were definitely cut from a different cloth.
My first boss and mentor, Mr. Morton Sobin piloted many phototo-recon missions in one of these planes set up for photography. Upon landing after one mission he was the only one alive (he was protected by heavy armor beneath the pilot's seat). His mentoring me equipped me for a 40 year career as a photographer at the NIH. He never spoke to me about his war experiences. The sink in his studios's B&W darkroom was crafted from a fuel tank from a B-17.
My wife and I included the Imperial War Museum Duxford on our 2019 trip to the United Kingdom and France; we spend a good part of a day exploring the different buildings that make up the facility. It is an absolutely wonderful exhibit of the aviation history of Britain (and now also its land warfare history); keep up the excellent work!
UK does have some great museums, the Tank museum at Bovington is another great one and the historic dockyard at portsmouth is fantastic
@@bobbyrayofthefamilysmith24 I spend a day at the Tank Museum in Bovington back in 2014, and my wife and I also spend a day at the Portsmouth Historic Dockyards (and a half-day at the Historic Dockyards Chatham, where I helped make a length of hemp rope); all were well worth the visits.
My grandfather was a B17 pilot and was assigned to the 413th squadron, 96th bomb group of the 8th Air Force based out of Snetterton, Heath England. On June 6th 1944 after completing a bomb raid on a railroad yard in Magdeburg Germany, his plan encountered enemy fire from German fighters. A combination of hits from enemy fighter aircraft and flak rendered two engines kaput and damaged control and their oxygen supply. He gave the “bail out” order and all all but 3 members of the crew survived. He spent the next 10 months and 9 days as a POW until General Patton’s 3rd army liberated him and his men. My grandpa died back in 1997 when I was 15 years old. I used to get bored with his war stories. But I would give anything now to have 10 minutes to talk with him about all he had experienced. As an adult I’ve always been fascinated with WW2 aircraft and the stories of pilots and air crew from that era.
I hear ya. Wish I had listened to grandpa’s stories too
Beautiful aircraft isn't it. If you're ever in the states, visit the National Museum of the US Air Force, in Dayton, Ohio. They have the Memphis Bell on display fully restored and many more amazing aircraft.
So awesome to see also have the bocks car there as well. Hope to see an HE-111 up close one day
I’ve been to duxford a few time & I could still go now & be amazed walking round. I know we had the Lancaster bomber & the wellington bomber but the b17 is just so beautiful to look at - I love it
My dad was a tail gunner in a B17 and flew 33 missions. He was in the 369th.
My dad was a belly turret gunner on a B-17, my father in law a flight engineer. They both said the same thing as Walter Ram states below, that the B24 was a better plane but the B17 could withstand much more punishment and still get the crew home safely. I heard countless stories of the engines continuing to run in spite of multiple bullet hits. Also planes coming home with only two of the four engines. Fabulous video, thank you Imperial War Museum!
When I first saw the B-17 on TV over 20 years ago, in the late 1990s, I was fascinated by this aircraft. And I am still fascinated :)
My great uncle was killed piloting a B17 in a bombing run on oldenburg germany. The plane he flew was actually named after him on the nose art. I have a huge love of the B17
What was amazing was the amount of aircraft lost because of the weather. I read a pilot's memoir where he told about flying for hours to Berlin and back and the most scariest part of the mission was landing in the bad weather.
Auto pilot wasn't a thing back then they had to use trim to keep her level without stick input. Truly a different breed of pilot.
Norman Lear was a radio operator/gunner on Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress bombers with the 772nd Bomb Squadron, 463rd Bomb Group of the Fifteenth Air Force. He flew in 52 combat missions and received the Air Medal with four oak leaf clusters.
My father flew 36 combat missions over Germany (mostly). He was a Lieutenant and then a Captain in the 8th Airforce. The bomber group I forget, but was nicknamed "The Fightin' Bitin'". And one of his planes was the Picadilly Lilly. He was a squadron leader, if that is the correct terminology, a point of the spear, as it were, in a formation. He was awarded several medals, including the Distinguished Flying Cross, but they meant nothing to him. He said everybody did what he did, that his service and citations for flying back home across the English Channel in a severely damaged plane, and other citations, were nothing special, and wasn't half of what happened, and that others did likewise. He thought it unseemly to be honored for it. He only brought this up near the end of his life, when I asked, and the medals were finally sent to him that apparently he did not want. Otherwise, he said very little about combat. And I might add that he was repulsed by the sight of blood, for reasons I can only imagine. But we do know that thousands of airmen were ripped to shreds up there, and that at any moment while in combat, you could be hit by flak shrapnel or a shell from the nose canon of a ME-109. Being singled out for valor was almost a disgrace to these airmen, I think, because they saw so many die. My uncle was B-17 waist gunner, at a base near my dad's in Britain. He told me once that Hitler had placed 6,000 anti aircraft guns around Berlin, and that during air raids the Germans filled the skies with flak, that they were thick with it. He said, flying into it was one thing as a waist gunner, where he could not see what was ahead, but that for a pilot like my dad, "it was absolutely terrifying," because they could see they were flying into a morass of lethal explosions in the sky. I must add one thing, and I apologize for this, but my father would be disgusted with what's going on in America and Canada right now. The complete disregard for what he and others fought and died for, the abandonment of Americans in Afghanistan, the subversion of our elections, and the attacks on American history and ideals. I am relieved he is not here to see it. God bless those who fought so we could be free.
Explain "the subversion of our elections" if you would be so kind.
fascists like trump
@@edogould9865 Mail in Balloting and Ballot Harvesting anyone? Kudos to your Father, Iam Hudsdent.
When I was visiting Arizona back in the 90's I visited the air museum in Mesa. They have an airworthy B-17 called "Sentimental Journey". I was stunned when I was told I was welcome to go on board. The had the cockpit blocked off with a chain. They even apologized that they wouldn't be taking it up that day. I'm sure I could have had a flight in it. You have no idea how cramped and restricted movement is.
I have been aboard her. It was an amazing experience.
One of my uncles dropped out of high school after Pearl Harbor and commuted from Sumner, Washington to Renton and got a job building B-17 Flying Forts. I know that Boeing had a plant in Wichita and that other companies helped build more airframes... But I can't look at a Fortress without wondering if he worked on it. Magnificent planes!!!
Another great video, concise, well-researched and immaculately presented. Leaves you wanting to know more, and get to Duxford!
The fact that my fourth cousin flew one of these birds in the eight air force and survived is remarkable
As usual, an excellent report on an IWM Duxford's aeroplane. Good, well documented story, supported by great stock and modern footage. The interviews with veterans add to the quality of the clip and the to the story. Please keep it up!
Thank you that was excellent.... Make no mistake these B17 crews where the bravest of the brave flying unescorted daylight raids over Europe.... We owe a debt of gratitude to the USAF.... the mental health of these guys must have been shot to pieces going on raid after raid how on earth did they cope ill never know... I prefer the B 24 it's just beautiful and very versatile with its exceptional long range..... I get goose bumps when I see all those B 17s flying in their box formations truly amazing.... RIP everyone of you guys lost over Europe 🙏🙏🙏🙏
I was advised to visit Duxford while I was stationed in the UK. Fascinating place, and well worth the trip! Funny thing about the US air bases, but they were indeed all around where I lived. RAF Glatton, RAF Polebrook, RAF Alconbury, RAF Molesworth...all within roughly 30 minutes of each other.
hi from Czech republic pals, so I am sincerely honestly grateful to each and every soldier which was involved in B 17 missions over Germany in WW2, and lots of them lost life even for our country, so YOU from B 17 forces thanks THANKS thanks
Thank you for a great tour and talk about the plane and the brave crew who flew them,seeing this and the other plane's at Duxford was a great day out,
My dad flew a B17 in the 12th Air Force originally out of North Africa and then Italy. Have some pictures of their “posh” accommodations (tents). Later flew modified B17s (bomb bay outfitted with a large life boat) and goony birds for air/sea rescue out of Adak Alaska during early 50s. Would only talk about the war after a few glasses of wine, it was pretty brutal.
Wow how lucky is she to go inside Mary Alice! I'm a reenactor and collect usaaf bomber kit,I've done events at Duxfords airshows and always have dreamed of going inside myself in full bomber shearling kit, (which I have) it makes you appreciate the sacrifices made so we can have today. Never forget the bravery of these men these heros! Great video all the best
Thank you for remembering them Josh as these men made a tremendous sacrifice. I'm an American and do reenacting myself. Been lucky enough not only to wear full kit in a B-17 I flew in it as well even plugging in my heated suit, throat mike and oxygen. The most sobering part of it was squeezing thru the bomb bay wearing that stuff.
@@warrenchambers4819 many thanks it's so inportant to remember these men, please enjoy my video of the flight gear that I have collected so far- with the UK sally b kzhead.info/sun/edyTltmtqF9sfGg/bejne.html
The Commemerative Air Force in Texas sometimes does flights for paying customers. I do not know the current price but about ten years ago a ticket was $300.
@@kirbyculp3449 It's still reasonably price 600 for the best seat goes lower from there. Just about every airshow outfit here in the states now sell rides. Insurance hassles finally handled yrs ago opened it all up. Heck you can even get a ride in a F4 Phantom if you got a spare 3500 bucks. Hueys, Cobra's, warbirds and even fast movers are all available.
@@kirbyculp3449 yea sadly I'm I'm the UK 🇬🇧
Great video and story. I live in Mesa Arizona. Nearby we have falcon Field and a operating B-17. It flies over the house many times and I always marvel and remember all the men who never came home. Never Forget….FREEDOM IS NOT FREE! 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
My Dad was a bombardier, a Lieutenant in the 8th Air Corps, flew 36 missions, 1943-45. RIP Thank you fo this video!
Love the comment about Norton bombsight. The accuracy was NOT great for many reasons. For the crews that flew these planes, great bravery.
Hats off to the research, filming and editing crew on this wonderful video.
Well presented.. some omitted details but fair enough.. what most do not understand.. and you have to see the b17 and the b24 together.. just how SMALL the airframe is.. the entire fuselage is about as long as regular city bus... and from the cockpit back it shrinks down in to from a cone ..
Yep, when I saw the picture of the missionaries at 9:13 I thought, there's no way that's a B-17!
You're absolutely right. The first time I saw a B-17 up close I was quite frankly shocked at how small it is, old (and new) films make it look much bigger than it actually is. It's pretty "tight" on the inside too!
excellent stuff as is the norm from the IWM team, what a priveledged job you have, thank you for your passion for looking after these war ladies, if you have not been to Duxford it really is an outstanding place and if your really keen more than a full days worth, keep these little features coming ta very much.
Excellent video- I visited IWM Duxford and I must say, it's the best museum I've ever seen. I have to get back there as soon as I can get back to the U.K. Greetings from Canada!
I’ve only seen the b17 fly once. Independence Day, I’m outside Detroit and this majestic plane flew at low altitude about 500 to a thousand meters away. Just amazing.
I rode in a B17 a few years ago, an amazing experience.
Check out the Pima Air and Space Museum in Tuscon Arizona. They have a museum full of the missions in Europe and all theatres of combat during WWII. It brought tears to my eyes....
I really enjoy the clarity of communication from Emily. I hope to see more of these presented by E. Charles. Thank you.
The B-17 stood out for the simple and, little recognised, fact that it was the American WW2 heavy bomber with the least number of, potentially, lethal design faults. The Consolidated B-24's main flaw was the placement and weight load put upon its huge, thick wings. They could not adequately deal with the heavy loads of the engines and other equipment inside. Added to this was combat flying which, apart from steady bomb runs, included sudden but necessary, evasive manoeuvres. So, the B-24 which, on paper and in terms of bomb load, was superior to the B-17, had the frightening habit of losing its wings. The entire wing assembly, to the point where it joined with the fuselage, had the frequent habit of breaking off, quite unexpectedly. It has been estimated that at least one B-24 lost its wings on every day of their operational service, including training and even some ferry flights; keeping in mind that the B-24 saw service in every theatre of WW2, this was a huge number as it was the most produced heavy bomber in the entire conflict. A long-concealed number of around 5000 B-24s were lost in this manner. Although the accuracy of this number is still disputed. B-24s were withdrawn from service as soon as possible. The B-29 Superfortress, touted as the most sophisticated and complex aircraft of its time suffered from a design flaw of its engine cowlings. This resulted in extensive and serious engine overheating of its air-cooled power plants. Engine fires, cut-outs and total failures were common and frequent in its early days. Engine cowl flaps around B-29 aircraft engine cowlings addressed this problem but they were never intended to be in the fully opened position for long periods. It was found that the only way to partially deal with engine overheating was to leave the cowl flaps open, at 100% for an entire flight. This caused its own set of problems like reduced speeds and higher fuel consumption. Nonetheless, engine cut-outs and total failures continued to plague the B-29 through most of its service life. In the latter part of the war, and thereafter, B-29s had to fly with a dedicated Engineer who, with the pilots, had to ‘nurse’ the engines carefully; monitoring engine temperatures; adjusting flight speeds and cowl flaps etc. This drastically reduced fatalities and serious engine fires which saw the B-29 soldier on with the USAF and RAF (called Washingtons) until 1960. The engine cowling ‘fix’ was a vital development and good timing too, as this was the only aircraft that was capable of carrying and dropping the atomic bombs over Japan. I take slight issue with the IWM’s view, in this video, that the B-17 was the most popular bomber with flight crews. Many thousands of RAF and even some USAAF and many other foreign crews swore the Avro Lancaster was the simply the best heavy bomber there was. It carried nearly twice the bomb load of a B-17 and was immensely strong in terms of taking battle damage also withstanding vigorous flight handling. Their only main drawback was the absence of a ‘belly turret’ which made them extremely vulnerable to enemy night fighters; to a point where the Luftwaffe developed an upward-angled weapon expressly intended to attack the undersides of Lancasters. Finally, I think it’s pointless to ‘pick a winner’ amongst heavy Allied bombers. Together, they devastated much of occupied France and nearly wiped many German cities and towns off the face of the Earth. Over Japan, General LeMay’s B-29s almost, as he famously said, “Nearly ran out of targets...” with these aircraft using conventional ordinance. Thankfully, no bomber in the Luftwaffe or IJAF inventory could come anywhere near the effectiveness of any of our four-engined ‘heavies’. BH
Believe it or not there were so many "bugs" during the developement of the B-29 the USAAF was seriously looking at having Lancasters built under license here in the US for use in the Pacific. Obviously it never happened though, but it's a great illustration of how good the Lancaster was.
I believe the Lancaster would also have been capable of carrying the atomic bombs, but for political reasons the US wanted to use a US plane. Having said all of this, the B-29 is my favourite; I'd love to see the museum's B-29 It's Hawg Wild covered in a future video!
@@dungareesareforfools The Lanc certainly would have been capable of carrying the atomic bombs, the only thing it lacked that the B-29 had was the range, so IF a Lancaster was used the use of the bombs would have had to wait until air bases could have been built closer to Japan, say on Okinawa or the Phillipines. It all never happened of course, but it's fun to speculate. Certainly for political reasons an American airplane would have been preferred, but there are times when military needs beat out political ones. By the way Convair, another American aircraft company, was developing a long-range bomber of their own, the B-32, but they never got the bugs out of it until the war was almost over. Only a handful were built.
Actually, a special squadron of Lancasters was readied in Burma to carry the atomic bomb, if the B-29 wasn't ready in time. They wouldn't have had the required range, but in-flight refuelling had been developed, albeit a bit crudely. (there's a YT vid somewhere, can't find the link right now). Also, don't forget that Lancs were originally built with a belly-gun position, but most RAF squadrons removed them after a while. I think they regarded them as ineffective (attacks rarely came from that direction) and besides weight considerations, it was just 'one more crewman to be lost'. Preferences for the B-17 mostly come from the European theatre. Out over the Pacific, the massive long-range capability of the B-24 meant that it reigned supreme.
There was a squadron of Lancasters assigned to drop the atomic bombs as backup because of the many problems with the B29s. Little known fact.
Another great video from you!
Clark Gable, from Gone with the Wind, was waist gunner in a B-17 and flew several combat missions during the war. I find this absolutely outstanding! He sure was far from being a teenager by then, and statistically waist gunner was the more dangerous station, the most exposed to enemy fire. (the ball turret was the safest, unlike many people thinks) Ronald Reagan volunteered too, but he was much too short sighted for active duty; so he ended up doing a great job starring in instructional movies for the US Army, either as actor or as Voice off. James Stewart was a B-24 co-pilot during the war and I believe he ended his career flying B-52s. Charming fellow.
Excellent production - thank you for sharing !
I always marvel at how often footage from the Memphis Belle documentary is used for other historical videos. It really is one of the best preserved wartime films.
Duxford is a fantastic place to visit and the American Aviation Museum is superb. As big as the B-17 & B-24 are the B-52 makes them look like small scale models. The size difference is staggering.
I'm very happy that it's being preserved and displayed.
Congrats to all that made this restoration possible for everyone to see a part of history, very well done !
Heart-wrenching to hear him speak about loosing his friend again. You never get over that.
I've been to Duxford so many times and have never heard of the history of that specific aircraft. I don't remember seeing it on the blurb. Amazing how it was used by so many different people
I love these historical stories & it’s wonderful to see the aircraft so beautifully maintained 👍🏼
What amazing dedication to restore this plane to its wartime configuration. Wow!
Excellent documentary on the B-17, especially when you took us inside & pointed out the lack of pressurized interior, complete with open windows for the waist gunners!
I found your channel tonight. This is my 2nd video after your recent video on the P-51. I'm so, so impressed with your content. Consider me a regular viewer from this point forward.
The B-17 is easily the prettiest of all WWII Bombers. Such an elegant looking plane.
My Grandfather was a flight engineer in the 381. He flew out of Ridgewell. Up until he passed away in 2003, he could never believe he survived both Schweinfurt raids. He said the flak was so bad he felt he could walk from cloud burst to cloud burst.
Thank you so much for sharing this excelent video !🎩👌🏻👍🏻🏆🏅
I hear the ball gunner was one of the highest fatality rate amongst the B17 crews.
They required another crewman to let them out so if the plane was shot down they couldn't get out unless there was time for another crew to open the hatch for them
I am grateful of the efforts to preserve these aircraft.
Brave, brave men. 🇬🇧 🇺🇸
The 8th Air Force campaign was the equivalent of trench warfare. The attrition was horrendous!
It took until the MACV-SOG commando missions during Vietnam that were sent "across the fence" into Loas and Cambodia for the US Army to reach the attrition percentage rates that the 8th Air Force had in WW2. And, the 8th Air Force lost more men in WW2 than the Marine Corps did during their entire campaign in the Pacific theater during the war. Those two facts put things into perspective.
@@dukecraig2402 …. Any romantic notions of being an airman were lost as soon after arriving in England. The film “Six O’Clock High” portrays it well
At first, yes. As time went by and effective fighter escorts became available, and after the Normandy invasion and the ground forces advanced closer and closer to Germany the loss rate wasn't so bad, but being a bomber crewman was still a dangerous line of work to be in right to the end of the war.
Dad did 30 missions behind the twin 50s in the top turret of a B17G, 401st Bomb Group. Lots of war stories including a life or death battle with an ME262. He brought back a raging case of PTSD that hounded him until his death.
Great video enjoyed that .. would love to visit again one day
Great and informative videos! Just yesterday I was watching the Mosquito video and I was thinking if you have a video about the B-17.
Happy to be of service!
Great video. I'm glad this B-17 has such a great home. Thank you
I was a member of the Duxford Aviation Society in the 1980s, i wired the lights in the Viscount. A friend was restoring this actual Fortress and invited me on board. Being 6' 2" tall, i was bent double in the fuselage. Gunners had to be 5' 6" tops
B-17 generally carried 6,000 to 8,000 pounds of bombs, not 4,000 as the narrator stated. It also had more armor than the Lancaster. The "best" bomber of the war was the B-29 which served in the Pacific theater.
The normal bomb load for German targets was indeed only 4000lb; hence the frequent comparison with the Mosquito. This could be increased as you say to 6-8000lb for shorter-range missions. They could actually carry up to 17,600lb with use of added external racks but the higher weights made too much of a dent in speed, altitude and fuel consumption.
Thank you Tim, saved me a lot of typing!
Thank you IWM for being such a good steward. 🇺🇸🇬🇧
Looks fabulous both inside and out.
Wonderful! I'm going to learn more about the B-17 now...
these are some of my favorite videos on youtube
excellent narration
Interesting vid, and presented well
Glad you enjoyed it!
How interesting - thank you very much for this presentation.
This is a good video, the historical part of the aircraft in the museum was interesting to me. Thanks.
very interesting. Thank you
American Grandfather worked at the Nash-Kelvinator plant in Lansing Michigan making the B-17 and B-24 propellor blades. German Grandfather was rear machine gunner in the Ju 87 Stuka. Always an interest of mine to know both sides of the air war.
Very good narrative well presented¬!
It’s very hard to put words up for these so committed warriors that flew these beasts ..Respect
Badass and Cool Video.
A Great movie my Parents raved about 1946's "The Best Years of Our Lives " featured a Captain Fred Derry a B-17 Bombedier returning home played by Dana Andrews. I wondered before playing this role he took a ride or two with a local USAAF unit in The Los Angeles area still flying B-17s in preparation for filming this movie. Many WW2 aircraft right after the war were immediately obsolete and withdrawn from service.
Such brave young men...
This, and the M-1 Rifle, are brilliant examples of Art Deco design.
M-1 is a beautiful machine. One of the best rifles ever made.
Thank you my Dad was a mechanic at Debach stationed with the 8th Army Air Corp. He worked on B 17s
I like the videos you narrate. You are awesome :)
Always love seeing her when I visit, must pop over again soon.
Excellent interesting presentation. That was really interesting,
Awesome video
Very nice video. Enjoyed it very much. FYI, though, late B-17g's with the staggered waist gunners DID have windows. This reduced drag and gave the plane a mile or two longer range. 🙂
I'm glad they restored that aircraft to its original mission configuration. Some may take this the wrong way, but it was built to bring destruction to the enemy, not fly around a rich guy, or even a group with a noble purpose. I worked on military aircraft for many years (the good old C-130 Herc) and I can tell you, they have their own personalities (at least the older ones did). Again, some may not get it, but if you've worked with the same bird night after night you get to know its quirks and habits and how to deal with them in ways not always found in the technical orders. The men of the 8th Army Air Force were true heroes. That outfit had the highest casualty rate of any group during the war and they accounted for more than half of all Air Force losses during that timeframe. To put it into further perspective, they lost more men than the Marines. Before the 25-mission rule went into effect the flyers knew it was just a matter of time before their number came up. Yet they kept at it. They kept bombing in the day in spite of the warnings of the British because in their way of thinking daylight bombing offered the best chance of success. While I served, I was fortunate enough to speak with several flyers who served with the 8th and they were all humble guys who just did a job that needed doing. Most are gone now, but if you are ever fortunate enough to meet one, give him your thanks. Those men, and their brothers and sisters in arms from all allied branches and nations truly did save western civilization.