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How much should photographers charge? One wedding photographer charges $8,000 and sparked outrage online. Some even thought photo should be free.
Tony & Chelsea talk about how much most photogrphers charge, break down the costs of running a photo business, and give tips on making your photo business successful.
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Okay if someone wants free photos I'd suggest they have all the wedding guests taking photos and videos themselves. Then suggest they figure out how to collect them from the guests and go through the process of finding and buying a photo book, prints and editing the photos if they want or need that. I'd probably show up also with just a smartphone and send them the photos after social media has compressed them because that's the level of effort I'd feel like doing for minimum wage and travel expenses like gas.
Oh and don't forget insurance, equipment wear, photo book, photo prints, customer acquisition and advertising, photo editing, software costs and costs associated with storing the photos
Maybe the photographer also has a separate studio/office space and doesn't work from home? That price is starting to seem mighty reasonable especially if they have lots of experience with photography and how to get good photos
Good video but you guys can’t use the median annual income and say photographers make less than average. If you have to lie to make a point you probably don’t believe it
I am a pro photographer, but I would never even try to shoot a wedding. Too hard, demanding people, crazy lighting situations, huge stress. Just too many things that can go wrong. I really respect you wedding photographers. Hard job.
I am still an enthusiast photographer. Not confident enough in my skills to go pro even part-time yet. But I will never do a wedding. The biggest reason is that I do not want the pressure and responsibility of recording what is hopefully a once in a lifetime event. Most portraiture photography can be re-shot. I am much more comfortable with that circumstance.
I love wedding photography. It's not my main photographer job, but I've done about 10 of them. A lot can go wrong, but with the right gear to back you up, it's rarely a problem. Anything that goes wrong in the wedding itself there's usually someone whose job it is to do that. The photographer CAN be very helpful though. I've helped groomsmen tie their ties, I've run to get water for a dehyrdated bridesmaid, and even helped a kid in the wedding party that was having a major allergy attack. Aside from some stress in the attendees surrounding the event, they usually go in the same order so you know where to go and where not to go. Showing people the photos you've taken them during the preparation phase really can help people feel better about how they look, and makes them feel more trusting of the photographer. Generally speaking, people are happy at weddings, and I love being around so many happy pepole.
I don't even make money taking photos, and this always infuriates me. My employer supplies the computer, the workspace, and even free coffee, I guess I should work for free too because I didn't have to buy anything for a days work...
Same.
Dito. Sound’s like you’re working for Apple or Microsoft 😅
"deserved, not deserved" is a moot argument. Nobody is forcing clients to pay 8k. There is a free option, tripods and friends (with their iphones and cameras). But no, you decide to hire a professional. You go through a photographer's past works, you select him not for his gear etc but his end results. He lists his price at 8k. If its too much for you then don't hire him, go to next photographer. Why be mad about it this is simple as that. If its really "too much" then nobody will hire him and he'll eventually cut down his prices to make a living. If enough people hires him at that price, who's to say its too much or NOT fair. In an analogy, its like hiring a musician. Everybody can sing, yet some make millions by singing. If you want Deep Purple to play at your wedding you'll pay a 300k. If a local singer will cut it you'll pay far less. Its very cheap with some amateur band and its free if you can do it with friends. There is no fair/unfair, just don't hire if you think its too much.
This reminds me of a talk I heard by a photographer whose specialty was shooting outdoor action shots, like mountain bikers. A maker of custom mountain bikes was launching their new expensive, spiffy hand-made bike, and bought lots of ad space in the leading magazine on the subject and the magazine wanted to feature the bike being ridden on their cover. They hired this photographer and flew him to Colorado to do the shoot, which included other promotional ad shots, too. (Now, I'm not 100% sure of the exact numbers that follow, but they're close.) After choosing the appropriate images, the photographer said he'd finish them in post-processing and send them on, with his bill. "Fine" said the execs. The bill arrives for $10,000 with all the shots, in digital and print format, for the cover of this leading magazine on Mountain Biking and for several killer images of a champion biker doing jumps and impressive riding, all brilliantly lit and exposed. The execs are stunned, call the guy and say, "Seems a bit steep for something that just took a few fractions of a second to record; I don't get it." The photographer answered, "Well there's something I don't get, either." "What's that?" "How on earth anyone would pay $6,000 for a bike?" They paid his bill. People seem to forget that many photographers, myself included, have paid handsomely for an education in photography and even board-certification in it. It also requires rather costly equipment that most have to recoup in their prices.
My takeway is that mountain bikes are very expensive
@@dj_laundry_list However, skills & time are priceless.
@@arricammarques1955 Not mine - my skills are worth the going market rate
@@arricammarques1955 It's all in everything the photographer brings to the table- time learning, practice, experience, skill, talent, high quality equipment- manifested in a fraction of a second and an amazing shot.
I thought mountain bikes were expensive until I got into cameras.
I've donated my time to do a few events for local charity organizations and 2 weddings for friends. It is a lot of work. One of the organizations asked me how much I charged... I told them they couldn't afford me but I would donate my time to them. As a wildlife and nature photographer, I have zero interest in doing weddings or events for a living.
My nephew asked me to do his wedding. I did it as a gift...never again...too stressful and I gained a ton of respect for those who do it! As far as I'm concerned they're not paid enough LOL
Yep, once you do something yourself you see the real value in someone who does it professionally.
yep, I did 1 for my wife's coworker, it was fun but I'd never do it again.
i’ve had this conversation. i’m very clear to prospective clients about fee vs final price. this conversation starts usually because today everyone is a photographer… or calls themselves one. i remind them it’s not the gear - they’re just the tools of the trade, but it is the experience and talent they pay for. remind your clients - they don’t go into a Starbucks and haggle for a latte. stick to your guns - you’re worth it.
The issue is, there is always someone willing to do it for free if you don’t and it drives me insane. People seem to think “exposure” puts food on the table
If people are willing to do it for free, that should give you a clue what it’s worth.
They do it for free and that is where stories of never getting your photos comes from.
Often, you get what you pay for.
The last wedding I shot was for family, and I was paid about $220. It was my first formal wedding, and I did okay and learned a lot. However, I did tell them, if anyone asked, that you paid $750, and that was the family rate. I used a Canon 5D mIII and a Canon 1D mIV as a backup, used dual cards in both cameras, uploaded and backed up images before editing, and set aside the memory cards for a month before formatting those.
Well, now that's cheap. But this bullshit about $8000 is worth it is just junk.
@@CO8848_2 8k is fine for an experienced wedding photographer. The main thing I learned is that the entire day revolves around the photos, and it's up to the photographer to coordinate the whole event without anyone noticing that is what they are doing. As Tony and Chelsea mentioned, a lot of work goes into it outside the day of the shot most people don't even think about. The number one reason small businesses fail is that they need to charge more.
@@CO8848_2 Whether $8k is worth it depends on the scale of the wedding.
@@CO8848_2 What would you charge?
Also after photo shoot is done... photos still need processing.
Exactly. I tell people you are really paying me to guarantee that the photos are delivered to you in a timely fashion,
that's what most people don't get, I shoot sports and its easily 2-3 hours of editing.
Your restaurant analogy is top shelf, especially if you like high end dining. It's not only good food, it's the experience. Good wedding shooters are usually good diplomats that have to deal with 'Momzilla' or 'bridezilla'. Shooting a wedding doesn't happen in a vacuum. 8 hour wedding? 40 hours in front of a computer screen. It's a tough business!
Here's how to find what you should be charging for your work. And this comes from Michael Sasser, who's a boudoir photographer, when he discussed pricing in a video (since removed, I think). Raise your rates - do this every quarter but not more often than that - until bookings start dropping off. That's about where you'll be maximizing your revenue. But... you need to remember to re-evaluate your prices as well. Once you find your drop-off point, then wait a year before raising your rates again, looking to see if bookings remain consistent or drop off. Bear in mind, of course, that the more you charge, the more your clients will expect. So you need to be able to deliver the value.
@brandishwar Sue Bryce also pushes people to charge more...
I heard a photografer saying to another: "oh, man I have way to much work to do" - and the other ones response was: "You´re way too cheap - you need to charge more" 😉
If you double your prices and lose less than 50% of your customers, you still earn more than before - and it leaves you with more time to work on skill, marketing, etc.
@@stairjoke and most importantly - you get rid of the cheap-customers who would go anywhere to get medium photos from anyone........ and who demands everything.........
People in general just don't seem to understand "You get what you pay for." For me photography is just a hobby, but in my work life I'm a locksmith (Have been running my own locksmith business for 16 years), what this means is the better I do my job the quicker I do it, so if I turn up and get you into you house, business or vehicle very quickly, it could seem like I'm charging a lot of money for 2 minutes work, but the customer isn't paying for that 2 minutes, you're paying for the 20+ years of experience that allowed me to get you in in 2 minutes with zero damage, mess or fuss.
Exactly! I once had a washing machine problem. The guy came and found two wires had gotten bumped and the lack of insulation shorted them out. I could have fixed that - if I had known where to look. But he probably knew where the problem was likely to be, and could check that first.
I have been a professional all my life, although digital improved my work flow, it opened the flood gates. If it cost £10-15 to buy and print 36 images it was costly to learn, now it is free. My income plummeted from £60K pa, to £10K in 3 yrs. Why? Because the world and his wife were happy to take photos and post them free on the internet, or, having a stable income, do a wedding for £100. As a professional motorsport photographer I needed £6-10 million liability insurance, had to include petrol, living expenses and so on in costings, and compete against people who only wanted to take the photographs. Then, some 'amateurs' get themselves killed and health and safety brought in so many restrictions in some cases it wasn't worth signing on, you couldn't get anywhere other than public enclosures, I gave up wedding photography as every guest was taking images on phones, cameras and videos, and clients expected a virtually free service. Recently I noticed a motorsport video on KZhead, 5-6 camera positions, at least three of which were manned, over six hours! Yes, free!
It's funny how people say someone charges too much, but if you tried to do they same to their job, they would raise hell. Too many people think photography is point and shoot. They don't consider equipment, editing time or anything else. They think it's like a smartphone. 😂😂
There are four things we are charging for. 1) Our time. 2) Our equipment. 3) Our expertise (training, education, experience.) 4) The cost of doing business (Advertising, Insurance, Credit Card Fees, Taxes, Office and Studio Space, etc.)
Your equipment is worth nothing.
@@CO8848_2 That makes no sense. Try and hire a photographer that has no equipment or broken equipment.
@@CO8848_2 The camera store disagrees on whether the equipment is worth nothing.
People appreciate good food. Maybe what we need is the photography equivalent of those aggressive cooking shows. "Iron Shutter" "Studio Nightmares" "Ready, steady, shoot"
I've wondered for a while why there isn't a reality show where people are pit against each other to try to capture photos of sports events with manual focus lenses and full mechanical cameras. I would want to see that. I really don't think its possible to have a competition which uses modern cameras because frankly the cameras have taken most of the skill out of it.
@@Carthodon That's like saying modern cooking has taken the skill out of the game because we have timers, refridgeration, mix masters, and pressure cookers. Compare the labour of making food just 60 years ago to the present day and they are worlds apart. Bakers used to be built like bulls, because it was hard manual labour. Obviously there is still skill to it, but it's a different set of skills. Modern cameras free us up to get more creative.
@@smaakjeks Its not really comparable. Cameras are so advanced that really the only skill you have to worry about is composition, which in cooking would be the equivalent of a recipe. Cameras can handle exposure, white balance and focus. To me, a timer in cooking is like a light meter in a camera, it is a fundamentally different effect on the act than program mode in a camera, having a sensor with more dynamic range allows for more things to be possible like a refrigerator or stove. The equivalent of what cameras can do would be similar to a robot kitchen which could determine the ingredients to use, their quantities, how and when they should be added and what temperature. Limitations of the current state of the art are regularly compensated by just bursting photos, this is especially the case in sports photography. Drop your pride at the door. I don't kid myself that the amount I have to learn to be a professional photographer is nearly as much as what photographers had to know 50 years ago, and the difference between someone who has only 5 years of experience as opposed to 50 is tiny compared to what would be the case in the past. Photography is heading in the direction of being as automatable as creating digital images, long before it happens to cooking. I'm under no illusions otherwise nor should you. The only thing remaining is to perfect drones (make them stay in the air longer, be safer around people, less bothersome) and it will be over, paying for 5 drones which can go where people can't go, move faster and be cheaper than one photographer at a wedding or especially in sports is the future.
@@Carthodon If you don't think there's much to learn about improving your photography or your photos, you'll get left behind. That's on you.
@Carthodon if the only "thing" photographers had to worry about was composition, then instagram would be full of amazing selfies and the reason they all look the same is the reason photography must be done manual. And the reason most of drone photography looks crap is because an average drone is a flying phone
Law 40 of 48: DESPISE THE FREE LUNCH. Anything offered for free is dangerous. It usually either involves a trick or a hidden obligation.
Thats probably because there has never been such a thing as a free lunch...ever...everything costs something somewhere whether it be monetary or time
When I first started in photography back in 1978 the average wedding was $1200. One photographer, no video.
That's over $5k today.
I'm a fashion photographer. I recently shot a runway that was in the indexation space. The models ranged from pros, beginners, artists, and weirdos. I was the only photographer being paid by the event and I also had the photos for sale to the models for $5 per digital. Two models too great offense to this, one who was a pro and signed by her agency, another just some who does this for her artistic expression. The pro decided to tell everyone I was scamming everyone when I was upfront you are paying 5 bucks for a digital file. She tried to take legal action and we quickly squashed her lmao.
The model should know better. Photographers can get them jobs. Or ruin them
OMG, people have no clue how hard it is. Even tho photography started out as a hobby for me, I wanted to make money with it. I'm no one special by any means just a rodeo / western lifestyle photographer, but you should get paid for what you're worth
When a couple hires a wedding photographer, their goal is to hire the person once and have the results forever. That makes the $2-10k much easier to justify. The wedding photographer is also often the on-site assistant wedding coordinator for the day, because they're the only vendor involved with every part of the day: prep along with the hair and make-up person, ceremony with the officiant and venue coordinator, reception with the DJ and venue coordinator.
As a novice photographer, I am a wreck before a shoot, and spend a lot on my equipment to make sure I get the shots they want. I will be paying two assistants for my next event, and shopping for a bigger vehicle. It will take me about 3 hours to set up and will need to do it the day before due to access issues. My last appointment can't arrive until very late, so I will need to break down and load up the following day. This one full day event is a three-day project. I'm setting up a display table with a price sheet this time so people can see what printed digital images look like, produced from a top tier photo lab, other than viewing them on a cell phone.
Unfortunately, most people don’t view their photos on anything other than a smartphone. It’s a sad world we live in now. I finally talked my daughter into printing books out once a year, and her kids love it now.
love your sit down videos. Tons of great insight, and opinion. Thank you for your work.
Camera phones made everyone a judge on what a photographer is worth. Many people believe you can get the same quality from the phone
I agree wedding photography is absurd. I'm just not very sentimental and have had more fun at small, casual weddings that cost a couple thousand dollars FOR EVERYTHING. I think it's a vapid waste of money, but if someone is already very well off and getting married, go for it. This is more an argument against wanting / needing hundreds of perfect wedding shots, rather than just enjoying the day -- if someone for some reason does want the full boat photographic package, like some kind of royal or movie star, I think the photographer should milk them as much as possible. Go for it. The idea of expecting the labor of another person for free is even more absurd. Also the point about charging for something you yourself wouldn't / couldn't pay for rang true -- my wife is a massage therapist in an affluent area and charges $110 / hour. We would NEVER pay that much ourselves.
@@Whatsgoodmydude2222 I think weddings in general are a colossal waste of money, particularly for people who are young and have to stretch to make it all happen (or dig into mommy and daddy's retirement to pay for it) -- and in my experience there seems to be an inverse relationship between money spent and how memorable and fun one of these is. I agree if somebody's wanting a professional suite of hundreds of perfect museum pics, to pretend for one day like they're the prince and duchess or the Hollywood "it" couple, that's going to be a ton of work including after the shoot and should cost a lot of money, and I'm supportive of photographers making every cent they can for whatever value they're providing. I've "done" three weddings for friends and family, fairly to very casual affairs with little expectation of brilliantly lit, perfectly framed, exquisitely sharp archival-quality pics. People in their 30s and 40s. Mainly candids and playful "street photography" style interactions with people, which to me are the most natural and interesting, and more of the guests than the couple, which to me helps the couple spur memories of the event much better than a hundred and fifty staged pics of THEMSELVES. I didn't "charge" for two of them and for the third my brother and SIL insisted on Zelleing me $500 after I sent them the files and they were very happy with them. For all three events the couples seemed pretty satisfied with what I provided -- FUN pics that still resonate. More power to wedding photogs, and if marrying people want to spend a bunch of money that's fine too, but there is another way.
The snaps last longer than the marriages! lol
exactly, how often do you pull out your wedding photos after having a few out after the first year? Then when/if you get divorced they get tossed.
There is much more than photography than pressing a button. Pro level photography does not come cheap and when you look at the quality, it speaks for itself. LOving the look and style of this video, too.
Well, at least we weren't charged for our wedding photographs (40+ years ago), but he shot the wedding with the wrong color-temperature film, and all the pictures were ruined. If I can find the prints I should scan them in and see if I can correct them today with Light Room or Photoshop.
My sister had a fight with her boyfriend just before my wedding. She tried to make him jealous by taking off with my photographer. I have very few pictures at the wedding and none at the reception. This was forty years ago, and I'm still deeply disappointed.
My wife and I had to move our wedding up by two weeks due to me having to deploy to Afghanistan in short notice. Her “Professional” photographer cousin took our pictures and they stunk. My friend with a disposable film camera took better pictures. This was pre iPhone days. We tell everyone if you are going to spend money on your wedding invest in the photographer. Everything else can be done cheaper.
I had the exact opposite experience. A friend volunteered who did this for more people. She is good at taking these kind of photographs. I am a hobby photographer and she used my gear, which is professional equipment. I am very happy that I got good photo's and the photo's were for free.
Right. The wedding is over in a day, but the pictures are all you have to show for it. I take loads of pictures on vacation, which I can enjoy over and over. (Last fall I was on a tall ship for a race on Chesapeake Bay. When the bridge collapsed last week, I realized I had sailed under that bridge. Those ordinary photos now have a special significance.)
Wedding photography and wedding videography is the gift that keeps on giving. What do I mean? They are memories that last through the generations and thus, a gift that keeps on giving well after a couples wedding day. Invest in a good professional photographer and videographer, and you will have memories that are priceless and worth every penny.
Such an important point about the restaurants. Great video, thanks.
Thank you for the info!
I have done video and photography for free and my payment (at the time) was gaining experience. Also paid for all my own gear when I started. If I charge for a project, the client is paying for that experience. For me, weddings are hard because I am trying to make each video or photograph perfect for the family. But free or not, I am always trying to deliver.
Just did my taxes as a first time business owner...learned so much reading up on the US Tax code (which is super complex). Made nothing on my business last year (due to concentrating on family stuff), but think I set up a good foundation for the rest of this year. Definitely recommend getting a basic planner or just a notepad and literally writing down everything you do involving your business. It's amazing what you can deduct from taxes as a small business owner as long as you have a record. Even if you have a CPA, you'll still need to provide them with records to find those deductions.
I’m a wedding and event photographer and your photography business is your brand and for you to charge good money to your clients you need to have built up your brand already with a good portfolio in order to charge top rates so you carnt expect to start charging high rates when just starting up your business, and marketing is the key to building your brand online . Great video insights 👍
At weddings now, the Bride and Groom get their friends to take lots of iPhone photos and then GIVE those pictures to the newly weds after. It’s a “spray and pray” type event but if they are happy with that … that’s it!! This is what real photographers have to compete with. The sixties, seventies, eighties and nineties are done and dusted, never to return. I got married in the eighties and we had a photographer turn up with a medium format film camera … those days are over for sure. We got some great photos! Now it is more so so. Cheers
The new video camera or edit used on this channel makes Tony look 60 instead of his actual 70 years of age
I shot wedding videos for 7 years. Without repeating your points and beating the dead horse, my immediate area did not have the financial resources for a high-end wedding, yet their expectations were high-end. I had to work at least 50 miles away, because my area expected a $3000 wedding for $300. I had enough budget shoppers that I created a list of things that “Uncle Harry” needed to consider when using his $300 point and shoot that also took video, to cover a wedding. After looking at it, frequently they would say that “Uncle Harry” could afford to do those things. You are correct, and we can’t either. But, if you want professional coverage these are the things that you must do. And for those who didn’t listen, I’d get the occasional, Uncle Harry tried, but he did a really bad job. How much to fix his mistakes? No amount of money can fix the unfixable, unless you stage your wedding over. Larry from Texas
Hi Tony and Chelsea, wow this was an eye opener for me. I do photography as a hobby and have photographed two if my neices wedding with pleasure. But i didn't know how much photographers charge their clients, or how much they earn. I thank you for this video, i learned something new. 😊
Thanks for this enlightening video. I'm not sure if non photographers will see it. As a photographer I give all others a tip. Just put it on your website. Take a section where you kind of explain what it takes (costs and labor wise) to do a shoot. I know many photographers don't want to be so transparent, but if a lot of customers still think that everyone with a phone can make similar shoots, we need to educate them.
Great clip guys! I was also thinking about the problem with TFP or TFCD sessions. Don't know if you already talk about it. Greetings from Spain.
People who would criticize a wedding photographer for charging $8k are envious of the photographer for their success and of the people who are able to afford to pay that amount. Why do people feel the need to tear down others for being successful? Why can't we celebrate success in others as well as we do our own success, and help others who aren't as successful to find their own success? Moreover, it's a free market. If you want to pay $8K for a photographer, fine! If you only have $800 for one, that's fine, too! There's a photographer for every budget. Let the photographer decide what they want to charge, and let the people who think they are worth that pay them! If you're not the photographer or the client, your opinion is frankly irrelevant.
I’m not photographer (I love photography) but I find extremely relevant you putting relevance on this work. Nowadays it seems everybody wants everything free, and that’s not the way to go.
i got told i was charging too much for a 20" x 18" high gloss print on half inch wooden frame, i charged £160! pin sharp photo of a flying kingfisher.
original or limited run?
@@johncooper9746 original photo. The board alone is £25/30 to buy, nevermind cost of putting the print on it
@@peakadventures_ I buy similar size framed prints for 60 US and sell at 120 unless its a limited run . I agree that you should get at least double the cost of the print for unlimited runs. If they pay it, thats what its worth.
@@johncooper9746 $60! Just for the board? See I add everything to that price, board ,print, camera/lenses used, travel expenses and length of time it takes to get the shot/to get to location. Tiny bit on top of that depending on weather conditions. Being a biker I'm carry a near 20g bag with me every time I go out shooting , bag is waterproof luckily but eventually water creeps into my bike gear..which I don't mind if u get my shots. I've seen some people charge nearly a grand for shots similar to what I got.
@@johncooper9746 they bought the print, but wanted to pay £100 for it, wasn't a chance I'd sell it that little
don't forget all the work, effort you put in for the prep work like location scouting or testing
Chelsea, I must say I have been watching your channel for two decades or more and you don’t seem to age at all. Still as beautiful as ever. 🙏🏻
Here in the UK, couples do not want to pay the going rate for wedding photography, they are happy with their friends' iPhones.
In the end, you get what you pay for. If you want free photography, you get free quality.
This is a great discussion, I have struggled with setting my scale for payment.
Photography should not be free I know the saying is shooting is free but in reality it's not, you use your time and with the practice it takes that takes time.
Thank you for talking about this debate
This was priceless information (advice)! Chelsea - “if you can’t afford the steak, we’ve got this hamburger “ Tony - “our family wouldn’t be able to afford us”
I'm not a wedding photographer, and where I am based there are a lot of wedding photographers that do not charge a lot, but they also do not provide a lot for it. But photography like every job where you are not just a member of staff has lots of costs. I run a photo studio at a loss, alongside a retail premises. The biggest cost is wages, and heating and Tax that people don't understand. From the photographers I talk to that do shoot weddings, are working from 8am to the first dance (at the earliest) they take 1000 photos in a day, then have to edit them all. I realise a lot may just use a pre-set and "done" but for me as a portrait photographer who edits every photo individually if I was to shoot a wedding and take 1000 photos, it is at least 1 weeks work. My standard day rate is much less than a wedding photographer, but it is also for a 7 hour day, and it is for a very specific outcome, and not 1000 photos. My biggest pet hate is the comment "You must have a good camera" these are people that are not hiring a photographer but a camera operator. Some people will never pay for a photographer as they don't see it as a skill or an Art, they just think it is someone with a camera and Free does not pay the bills (never mind the fact that my photography degree cost me £100K)
The cell phone really changed photography back in 2008 when the cell phone cameras were getting better and people only wanted images on their phones. I saw wall art really go down about this time vs before were I sold a lot of wall art and albums.
People will pay thousands for the cake, food, flowers, and so many more consumables. Yet, they don't want to pay for professional photos that will probably outlast the marriage. I walked away from photography in the film days because people didn't want to pay even a decent amount and expected to get professional work for friend-with-a-camera rate. Same for graphic design. I got back into it some years later and finally said the hell with it again when it comes to doing portraits or weddings. Same with prints. Unless you have a big name and heavily invested in the marketing people want nice prints for a few bucks. Usually, less than the actual print cost. Yeah, maybe sell the gear and just watch grass grow. Darn, drought in SW Texas, so the grass isn't growing. Thank goodness there are ambient videos on KZhead. The only way I can remember what rain sounds like.
Thanks for posting. My nephew purchased a Nikon SLR a few years back. After a couple of months, he decided he was a wedding photographer. He signed up with a company who would assign jobs to him. So workflow was something along the lines of ... 1. get call from company with a wedding date. 2. show up at wedding. 3. take pictures (very formulaic). 4. send pictures to mother company. Don't know the quality of his images, but after a few months he decided photography was not a good career path for him. These days it is very tough to make a living as a photographer. Everybody has an iphone/droid which of course translates into "i am a photographer". I do have a question. As a customer/client, what should I expect from a photographer? Meaning, how many hours before, during, and after the wedding/reception? Touched up pictures? Videographer? How many number of pictures to expect from a wedding photo shoot? Not to mention, the engagement pictures?
As a customer/client, that is all part of the negotiation before signing a contract. The total time on the day of the wedding can typically be 4, 6, 8 hrs, for example. Whether the pictures are touched up is irrelevant, it's more important that you like the photographer's sample work which represents the complete day, and that you get something similar. Videographer depends a lot, because the wedding video business is now its own genre. The number of pictures and the engagement session are all based on the package or negotiated. The "one-size fits all" model is gone.
For 30 years ago, I was deciding if I would study at the university or become a photographer. I’m so happy that I didn’t go as a professional photographer. Now I can take photos of dancers and theatre’s by a weekend basis. Sometimes I get paid and sometimes not. The income covers the income of the yearly upgrades of the equipment etc, photography trip overseas etc. so I never makes any profit in the company. For me I don’t have any intention of taking any more photos, if I did, I probably wouldn’t have the passion for it.
I photograph horses and riders love photos of their horses but the truth is they don't need photos of their horses. I don't charge because it is my hobby and I enjoy doing it but I also don't charge because I have a job that covers my expenses. My advice to new photographers is learn all you can, buy the best camera and lens you can afford and then photograph for free for a year or two. See if the stress of weddings and Senior Photo shoots is worth what in the end will most likely end up being a second job. Cell phones have made everyone a photographer and nobody is going to pay for something they can get for free unless you are able to impress them with your quality and creativity.
taking it at face value 8K could seem high for a wedding just taking picture for you special day that hopefully will only happen once, but there's a ton more to consider then just the price. most people don't look any further into something instead oh price too high in their opinion so must complain. then the internet spreads it like wildfire. I'm not a professional photographer just more of a hobby but have done some stuff for friends and its lot of stressful work to get it right and do a god job. more so when doing it for friend's but still has to be similar if your taking money for it as a job. The great thing is there are tons of professional photographers out there giving people tons of choices and options to consider if you think a price is too high. people love to have something to complain about lol
Photography should be free when the photographer takes pictures that everyone else can do: selfies, group shots, a vase that very few noticed, bouquet that everyone saw at every event, and random photos of people where you/customer will have to figure out what the F is going on in those photos. A real photographer will roll in at any event with the right gear (not $20k+ gear) and is prepared to capture a memorable story for you so that every photo you see, will either make you laugh, shed a tear, shake your head, fine details of treasurable items, and other memorable incidents that took place without your knowledge but very gratified they occurred. The event may have its flaws, but it's a story you will always watch and enjoy.
I'd be like, EXCUSE ME! My camera gear wasn't free, and my time and knowledge isn't either!
I pay $200+/month for just software! No image is free. Thank you for this!
A lot of great points were made in this video. People in the (auto detailing) industry, that I am a part of, experience the same issues. Both parties (consumers/business owners) have unrealistic expectations for services at various price points. There is a lot of shame placed upon the providers with respect to being considered 'affordable'. Both consciously and unconsciously treat the detailing operation like the customer is employing someone as if it is not a real business. I will also add to the hidden expenses of being a business owner, these crafts are often very underappreciated. That is the average person not realizing how much goes into detailing. I have talked to professional photographers who deal with people who think wedding photography is just paying someone to do a glorified selfie that they can get on their eye phone in portrait mode.
A wedding is at least a 5 day thing the day, there would be pre pictures for that kind of deal, and all the meet ups and processing printing etc probably an assistant. not counting all the equipment
The number of hours at the wedding/event plus the hours of work making everything look great and then packaging that for the client.
My nephew paid $25000 for a photographer and a second photographer which also includes the announcement photos plus photo book
I always love these videos. Can we title them TCTalks? I love these videos you guys do.
I don't think you guys touched on it, but let's not forget the time it takes to cull all the photos, edit the photos, and then get them off to the clients. That right there, depending on how many photos were taken is probably close to 40 or more hours a week.....
I'm still a hobbiest, but I fully support photographers making what they can. This is not a business where a tiny handful of people are coordinating and driving prices up artificially. There are hundreds of wedding photographers so if they can make $8k then they are worth $8k. My only advice is to make sure when you sign a contract, if you raise your rates later don't try to short your earlier customers just because you are now worth more. Our photographer was just starting out and was budget priced, but between signing our contract and the day of the event he started charging way more. The reason i know this is he complained to us about how good of a deal we were getting, and he later didn't deliver on some of the contracted promises he made. Don't short change people because you realize you chose to undercharge. Learn your lesson and work with integrity.
Hello! Wondering if you guys were coming to Erie, Pa to photograph the eclipse. I have followed you guys since before you guys came out with your book. It would be awesome if you guys did a meet up
Do people still order albums? Or have they gone all digital?
My daughter started printing books, and her kids found out that real printed photos are much better than viewing them on a phone. Hopefully, more people will discover that again.
Prints seem to be making a bit of a comeback.
All good about weddings. The ‘go into debt’ for a wedding though makes me nervous.
Some software now requires nowadays monthly or yearly fees now! How does the saying go, "If you do something well enough, don't do it for free"? Something like that. Like most things in life, those that don't do it think the results they see is easily done. Which in a way can be complimentary. But, we all know it's not just about taking a picture and making it brighter or darker. Or adding saturation or no saturation. On average, we don't make a lot of money. I'm glad I didn't see whatever the thread. I would've been nothing but fire. I get so sick of art of any kind being belittled. So, glad you all have the patience to make a video like this. I'm not a wedding photographer. I did three. Two the clients were very happy. Then there was one she just didn't like my editing of the photos (which I learned later that I needed my monitor adjusted and purchased a Spyder). All three though I made fun, lots of laughs and I'm VERY physical when shooting. I stopped simply because of the workload. That's really it. I didn't like the entire day of shooting every little thing and then editing for a long time. But yeah, all the other things that go into a wedding and the thing that lasts forever is criticize?! Yeah I would've told a lot of people to kiss my.....big toe.
YES, for some. If you are an event shooter and enjoy shooting and editing photos from the event, the cost is free. It's a win-win.
I'm a woodworker building furniture. It's hard to explain to people why hanbuilt furniture cost so much... I have 50 to 60k in equipment but I can't charge 30k for a window flower box that took 2 days to make. I can't charge 10k for a picnic table that took me a 3 days to build. I can't charge 5k for a garden glider that took a week. A delivery driver needs a 70k van to bring you amazon stuff....he isn't making 8k for a day.
One thing that I think is important is that you don't have to spend all this money getting started in any kind of photography including wedding phtoography. To be clear I'm not trying to say people should charge less, just that older cameras are perfectly good for wedding photos and you can edit them on an pretty much any Windows/Apple laptop from the past 10 years, you can even get free very competent photo software e.g Darktable, you can even get some stuff to run on a Chromebook. As it says in the video dual card slots is really good for creating duplicate files of every photo taken.
Every shoot, stills or video, sometimes requires an extra bit of kit. Its rare that I already have everything I need. There are consumables that are part of the process, and there are continual updates and upgrades to the capability of my gear. I look forward to the day when I "retire" and not have to buy any more gear to make a living. So when people think photography/video should be free, those same people have no idea the hidden costs that are part of showing up and doing a professional job.
Wow, while I know a lot of photographers are underpaid and its a sensitive point for many photographers, people missed the issue with that photographer. They kind of threw it in peoples faces and their portfolio was far from exactly impressive. So thats why they got dragged. People understand paying for quality and thats fine, but honestly it doesn't look great to defend crappy photographers either. And there are indeed a lot of sub-par wedding and family photographers that honestly just are giving bad names to the industry. 8k is definitely in the higher end of wedding photographers.
The change from film to digital and the internet have devalued photography so that most people now have no respect for photographrrs. In the days where a photographer used perhaps dozens of rolls of film to get a few good shots, people understood more about the work and costs involved. Today I think that has been completely diluted by digial photography even though many of the costs are still the same for photographers.
I think there is little respect for an average photographer but more respect for a good photographer.
I have high skill for what I offer (headshots/editorial portraits) but nobody in my area feels its worth more than $100. Been at it for 14 years too but used to avg 5 clients a year pre-covid, but post covid i would be lucky to get 1. Granted I spent thousands of dollars in advertising a year pre-covid, but decided to stop spending on it to only barely break even.
My questions to the couple is always the same: What would you pay if their wedding photo/video is to be stolen? Do they remember all the details of the best wedding you have ever gone in your life including the dresses, weather, location, food & drinks they served, speeches and the people that were there that day? And why would they think those things worth worth more then the photos/videos services. If they think those things are more important.... I don't want their business because the marriage most likely would not last long enough for me to become their family photographer anyway for me to take the newborn, birthday, hockey/football/dance/trampoline/graduation...photos! I prefer to be a life long family photographer than just a one day wedding photographer... personal preference. Worked at a camera store for years and seeing enough "Wedding Photographer" asking about "What is the best setting for this camera I need for wedding this weekend" ("P" for "Professional" is the default answer. LOL!) as well so I can understand why so many people lost their faith in wedding photographers as well. For anyone who thing photos should be free... as long as they & their families would work for me for free for the same amount of money & time & schooling & equipment cost &.... sure, let's do it... starting with my garbage bin...!
People often forget the depreciation of their equipment over time. The gear has a finite lifetime and after that it will need to be replaced. For that you will have to have the funds to do that replacement which you will need to add to your charges. Since camera gear is bldy expensive you have to allow for both the replacement (and possible upgrade) costs. In over 55 years of photography I have only done three weddings, one I was blackmailed into doing, in one I was a guest and the "professional" had a major gear failure and the third I was also a guest and the photographer was a no show. Whatever you charge for weddings it is not enough, my decision never to do them was completely right.
Self employment taxes! I didn't realize that my employer had been paying half of my social security and Medicare until I had to file my taxes my first year in business.
The problem with the photographer charging 8k was the photos looked pretty bad (subjectively speaking) and a lot of people shared the same opinion. The debate was mostly about if that particular photographer’s photos were worth 8k or not.
The business of photography is business I'm in the air conditioning business and I get the same things people will Google a part and then tell me how much I can charge crazy business courses should be mandatory in high school
I am doing sleddog and other photography for 15 years, and lately sometimes people ask to buy my photos. I am honored and it makes me happy to sell them their own photos, yet don't understand some feel a price of 2 starbucks coffees is too much for few high quality jpeg images. What people see it they are only getting one file, that can be send via mail, yet don't understand there is weeks and months of office work to get the gear in first place, years to get to some level of experience, hours on venue, hours behind PC, paying for software, harware, PC, storage media, electricity, car payments, food... yet price of 2 coffee for few photos if "in their opinion" high, and they are rather happy with crappy cellphone photos with no composition, fake bokeh, and vertical video...
J.J. Abrams is an example of a rich photographer. >
So, I''m a hobbiest photographer. My friends daughter is getting married next month and they are paying $10k for the wedding photographer. I don't have the skills or the right gear to help them out, otherwise I would have done it. People just don't understand what it takes to be a great photographer.
nice video 😊
In a free market the price is not determined by the amount of expenses a photographer has but by supply and demand. If you live in a small village and there are 10 wedding photographers then you might get a really good deal when you want to hire such a professional. On the other hand, if there is only one then the price will go up. Of course if a photographer can't make a living with his work then he will most likely quit being a full time photographer. The opposite is also true, if there is only one photographer and he is charging high prices then it is very likely that a new photographer will come to that town and compete. Personally, I did not hire a photographer on my wedding but let a friend take the pictures. That is a choice that I made and everybody is free to do with his money what he wants.
Yes, and the point of the video is the flip side of "everybody is free to do with his money what he wants" is also true, that it's fine to ignore people saying the amount charged is absurd.
Photographer's don't just have to pay for petrol (gas). I have an expensive camera, expensive lenses, expensive lighting, expensive editing software, my time getting to and from your event, and my time editing your photos. You're also paying for my experience, my time that I took to learn how to light, how to shoot and how to edit. I wouldn't have invested all my time and money into all this stuff if I was just going to give it away for free, that makes no sense.
What did the band charge? The catering? What did the cake cost?
My wife and I got married many years ago, but we decided that we were going to spend a significant amount of money on a top notch photographer. That’s the one thing from the wedding that the two of us knew we would have forever. And it was worth every penny. Periodically, we go back to the photos and have the best time looking at them. However, if that isn’t important to you, save your money and ask your next door neighbor to take photos with his 4 year old iPhone. But don’t complain what someone else charges and what others are willing to pay for a high quality product.
Photography should be free. So should housing, college, healthcare, food. I'm beginning to see a pattern, everything I want should be free.
There are so many great photographers here, there is no way you can get paid unless you are good enough. I am not good enough. That said, I volunteer to get into events to take pictures and practice my art. Anyway, last Sunday I was at a non-profit event and there were four other volunteer photographers as well. There was one paid free-lance photographer who had a full frame like a few others. The volunteers with iPhones were impossible to compete with since they uploaded in real-time, and the organization loved it. I did a my interviews with lavalier mics and a full frame camera but had to edit them at home vs the iPhone users who did their interviews live on Facebook which got 100s of views by the time I got home. Weddings are even going live now on social media with iPhones. By the time I got done editing the next day, the pictures and interview clips were old news. iPhone users win!
$3k for a wedding photographer?! I think I paid $7k in 2011! One of my in laws paid $12k for high end photographer. My area is likely more expensive and being a photo hobbyist myself, i was a bit picky and pick a higher end photographer.
Someone once told me that photographers make an insane amount of money for the work they do … because they are only really working when the shutter is open.
That person's brain is open for less time than the shutter.
Just like how the landscaper already paid for the mower!