Oblivion - Why is The Hero in Prison at The Beginning? Lore, Analysis, Theory EXPLAINED
In today's video, we're discussing what crime could have possibly been committed by the player in order to begin the game in prison in The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion. In its successor, Skyrim, a little more backstory is revealed as to why the player has been made a prisoner of war. However, in Oblivion, very little details are shared as to why we have ended up in The Imperial City Prison. During this video, we make observations on the setting of the cell, the characters outfit, and most importantly dialogue between Valen Dreth, the blades, and Emperor Uriel Septim the 7th! Did the player commit a simple petty crime? A heinous and deplorable one? Or, perhaps was it something more related to destiny, fate and the 9 divines? Don't forget to like, comment and subscribe!
#elderscrolls #oblivion #lore #gaming #theory
I think we already got an answer in game, it was for necrophilia. Not only does your character know the fine for the first offence, but they also know the punishment is more severe for re-offenders.
I am so glad to see I'm not the only one who knew this answer off the top of my head.
canon
Good point
What
@@elvenatheart982 Go to Skingrad and talk to a dark elf named Falanu Hlaalu. The conversation is hilariously memorable.
"why are you in prison" could be the start of a character creation line of questions.
A bit like the "interview" with Doc Mitchell at the beginning of New Vegas. He even gives us equipment depending on which skills we pick, explaining that was stuff we had on us when we were found. So the Courier has a backstory and a preexisting skillset.
I was a 1. career name who 2. fatal flaw/quirk and I 3. reason why in prison. and 4. how i was caught. since then I was 5. prison hobby.
Could get spicy if you are in there for killing kids or something.
Darktide does this. Think Conan Unchained did in it’s early days too.
@@atredfaolanconan exiles has you choose the reasons you are crucified, although it's not clear if you are guilty or not. It's strictly for flavour, though.
Considering the jail cell had a skeleton but was otherwise clean my vote it was a "scared straight" situation where a misbehaving kid (who'd say, got in a drunken brawl the night before) was thrown in across the way from a foul mouthed prisoner to try and get him to see the error of his ways.
That sounds incredibly logical. The cell isn't usually used, the cell is clean, there is a skeleton in that hasn't been removed. All that hints to the fact that it's a setup.
I think it was illegal skooma smuggling in all games. They take the player character crossing the border and throw them in a cell. Then the game begins.
Both sound good ,but I like the ida of it bieng anything and everything
In the previous games youre just an imperial agent. The pretext is that the emperor can put you wherever he wants to. IE, you start on a prison ship in Morrowind but by direct orders from uriel septim. Youre also an agent for and apparent super close friend to Uriel in daggerfall as well. @@Sylvershade
That's so gay. Let's make the pc a eunuch while we're at it
As with all of the other games (except for Elder Scrolls: Redguard), I don't think a single detail about the player character's backstory before the start of the game is set in stone. Bethesda made it intentionally ambiguous so that the player could write their own backstory, not hunt for answers that were never intended to exist. But that's just one eldritch horror's opinion.
Not much has been told about the hero! I think Bethesda wanted us to fill in the gaps for the backstory for the added immersion!
I'm Commander Shepard and I love when people stay in character for KZhead comments. 😂
And all the backstories for the Heroes are canon. And all the endings are canon.
Other than the fact that Bethesda literally said exactly what you just said, it's also pretty obvious because that was cool at the time (and still is, dammit) The only point of this video is fun speculation. Also obvious because that's what is cool at this time.
Iirc in the Arena the character is in the court of the emperor, and in Daggerfall they're supposed to be good friends with them, but that's as much detail as they'd ever get into
Maybe, the character was a drunk and thrown in jail for that, but the people who processed them are off-duty, because it was last night.
Could be for sure! A little rowdiness for the hero of Kvatch!
@@ABardsBalladi just though fit your own crime in my hero of kvatch was taken into custody for killing his co
I'm pretty sure it was for shoplifting.
@@futureshock74Stop thief! You won’t get away with this!
I’d always assumed that “lesser men” referred to the emperor being Dragonborn, rather than societal status. Uriel and Martin were both descendants of the dragon blood after all, and from what we’ve seen in Skyrim, Dragonborn are capable of some pretty incredible things.
The Dragonborn in Skyrim isn't much different from the Imperial Dragonborn lineage. Imperials have the "Voice of the Emperor" power which is probably similar to dragon shouts in some lesser form, and is also likely the very same shout that were used to subjegate/calm the invading Akaviri warriors, leading into the formation of the OG Blades.
The whole dragon blood makes one think if the Dragonborn would be able to take on the throne. Especially since they personally kill the then current emperor for the Dark Brotherhood. And the possibility that Uriel Septim V. has descendents on Akavir
@@HappyBeezerStudiosTheir dragonblood is not necessary anymore though. Sure, it would be prestigious and a powerful tool of war but it does not give you a claim or right to rule.
@@muffinman2546dude Voice of the emperor is just talking like Capt. Picard! And yeah its charming Also beggars use the voice… hence the odd voice changes after giving coin
@@MLBeaton Holy shit I never thought about the idea of the beggar going from well spoken gentleman to limey guttersnipe after they get my gold was them using voice of the emperor. Mind blown.
"Stand up... there you go. You were dreaming. What's your name?" The simple answer is its just a great way to open an rpg. The question of how your character wound up in prison could be answered endlessly in a variety of ways. It gives your complete freedom in deciding who and what your character is. It lays the foundation for creating a story for your character.
Uriel Septim Not being able to see your death also could be related to the fact you become Sheogorath the daedric prince.
Seeing as the Emperor can partly see your fate, he says your crime is not what you will be remembered for. If you didn’t commit a crime and were falsely imprisoned, I would think he would know you were innocent of any wrongdoing and not say that
Another idea: - The Hero was a criminal who committed a serious or a petty crime. This is another plausible explanation, as the Elder Scrolls games allow the player to choose their own moral alignment and actions. The Hero could have been a murderer, a thief, a bandit, a smuggler, a spy, a forger, a traitor, or any other type of criminal who broke the law and was caught by the guards. The Hero could have also been a necromancer, a vampire, a werewolf, a daedra worshipper, or a practitioner of any other forbidden or illegal magic or religion. The Hero could have even been a necrophiliac, as some fans have jokingly suggested, based on the fact that the Hero knows the fine for necrophilia in Cyrodiil is 500 gold.
They could be all of that, except a vampire or werewolf. They are specifically not either of those.
Best comment
You know, this comment is making me wonder if this is really the hero we need or deserve. A thieving, murdering, forging, spying, smuggling, traitor bandit who is also an illegal daedra worshipping necromancer, werewolf, and vampire who practices illegal magic. And also a necrophiliac on top of all that?!
You are obviously in prison for moving an apple
I always play a dunmer, that means that I don't pray to the Devines, but I DO pray to Three Daedra Princes. Your idea justifies my time in jail.
I like to use a mod that delays the main quest ("Main quest delayer") until you commit a crime and get arrested. The way I get "arrested" is by taking part in the corrupt guard quest in the Imperial City, only instead of reporting him to another guard, I confronted him myself. Of course, him being corrupt, he used my accusation as an excuse that I "attacked" him and arrested me and then the main quest began with me being unjustly imprisoned.
That's pretty cool.
@@burge117 thank you. It also allows you to get revenge on that guard by turning him in after you start the main game. Just make sure you're not carrying anything important or expensive on you at the time of your arrest, as everything will be confiscated and locked up in the prison, meaning you'll have to steal it back.
Do you have a link to the mod??
Alright, getting that damn mod downloaded the next time i play for sure!
@@user-yx9is6zk4h I posted the link and the website name but KZhead deleted it. I'll try again, its on nexusmods.
Baurus' comment about "lesser men" was not referring to strength of character or ones station. But literally that the Septims are on a higher standing than everyone else. They are recognized by the Divines to be the ones to rule Tamriel. And for asking the Emperor himself why you are there. That's the beauty of the writing. It could be that the PC doesn't know why they were imprisoned. It could be that they do know, but don't think they should be. It could be pre-determinism, that they were always meant to be there in that exact moment. It could be that they were magicked into being there, either teleported or being created. Are they amnesiac, self-righteous, indignant, a manifestation of the Divine's will? The Emperor doesn't know, but the player does, because it's whatever you want it to be(within reason(or not)).
Emperor Uriel Septim VII, sometime after ordering the guards to unlawfully arrest you: "Hmm, what's this prisoner doing in this super specific cell? How strange!"
there's a flimsy - but interesting theory that Sheogorath put you there to test your worth to see if you can take his mantle later on. but that was only made after the expansion came out (as said, its a flimsy theory) there used to be a mod where you could start out elsewhere in the game, but the moment you got arrested and agreed to go to jail (in the imperial city), that's when the story mission would kick off. the mod wasnt around for long, but i miss when i had it downloaded. it kinda made the intro make more sense
Does Sheo really look like a man with a long term plan?
@@xxXXRAPXXxxTrying to predict the madness of a true madman is impossible Basically he's so mad you don't know what he'll do. He could have had a plan, he could have not. Only he can truly know
@@hazeltree7738 Donno man, making plans and executing them requires patience to think things over sometimes for longer periods of time.
Im guessing that mod prevented the Oblivion Gates from spawning, but what about kvatch?
That would be cool but I can definitely see why that wouldn’t make it into the game. Much more accurate to real life but absolute hell trying to figure out what coincidental action begins the main quest line. Obviously everyone playing the mod probably knows you need to get arrested but that’s just hindsight
Todd Howard was open about this introduction. It's intended to be open to the player's interpretation. The player is able to come up with any explanation they like for why they're there. As they intended, there is NOTHING in the game to definitively say how and why the player arrived in prison.
But it does make you wonder if the person/people who wrote it had any intentions at the time, what they envisioned. Although I definitely lean towards the end of the spectrum that if something is not readily available info it probably was not written in the first place.
@@monhi64 writers can definitely write something in such a way that you think they know more information than they're telling you, and that can definitely be a delightful sensation in the audience. This game did not make ME wonder what the writer knew that I didn't know. The mean dark elf (dunmer) in the other cell for instance just made we go "oh gosh, they don't sound like they did in morrowind at all!" In fact, that dunmer seemed to be lacking the dignity most elves are known for, and I thought it was distracting. I didn't and still don't think that he knew what my character did to end up in prison. I thought he was just being a miserable for the sake of it, or maybe he was hazing my character.
I like to think Audrns Avidius imprisoned the Hero of Kvatch, it just makes a little too much sense to me that maybe you looked at him and he took it the wrong way or you couldn't pay his made up fine or maybe you accidentally bumped into him. Just some pre determined misunderstanding that the corrupt watchman took advantage of and hastily put you into the first cell in the Prison where the escape happened to be
That would've been a really cool idea, and it could have been our characters payback to get him arrested. Would've been neat if he had dialogue like "your face looks familiar....I've arrested you before..."
Best part about this theory is it doesn't destroy the illusion of no backstory. Just that you get arrested by a jerk using his power on people. Which explains why the character don't know why they are there cause he could have got forceful and knocked the character out and he had other guards book & cell the character which wakes up to see themselves locked up.
The Emperor literally tells you it doesn't matter, you are the Hero of his Dreams now. Whoever you were before is done. Even if you were a murderer, thief, and you imagine your player character wants to continue doing those things their reasons are now different
This is a interesting theory. I'd like to add that Shezzar/Lorkhan might also be behind the divine intervention. This comes from the Knights of the Nine DLC where the player takes up the same title as Pelinal Whitestrake, famous knight who also battled Daedra and their worshippers (the Ayleids). Pelinal is often called a Shezzarine, essentially an avatar of Shezzar who does his bidding. If true (which is highly unlikely) then that puts the player on the list of potential Shezzarine candides but that's to deep a rabbit hole for a KZhead comment.
I like the add on for the theory! If the gods all make the player a puppet for their wills and even the Daedric gods too I think it becomes more plausible!
The player always ends up doing the gods bidding in all games if you really think about it. From the Neverarine, to the Champion of Cyrodil and even the dragonborn. it seems whenever a mortal of high skill and power emerges the gods all sort of turn their focus on them. @@ABardsBallad
3:19 If playing as a female Dark Elf he comes on to you and sound really creepy, suggesting he ask the guard to let us share cell. I rather prefer him to insult me!
Another counter argument to the "Hero of Kvatch spawned into existence right then and there by the gods"; The Night Mother in The Dark Brotherhood questline, since she states to have chosen you the player since their exitence in their mother's womb Valen recalling you being dragged into that cell is one thing, but the Night Mother remembering your character being conceived like any other person? Either the gods put falce memories into the only few claiming to have known of the player's existence prior to gameplay, or we did in fact exist and end up in prison for reasons that may or may not be something Hero of Kvatch actually did prior to us playing as them (probably excludes actually having committed murder, considering the Dark Brotherhood initiation)
There is only one game in the Elder Scrolls series that you do not begin the game as a prisoner. Daggerfall, the second game in the series, does start you in the very first dungeon, Privateer's Hold, but if the player decides to look at the journal to read their character's backstory they would find that there are some choices during CharGen that actually have the character vary in background from being childhood friends of the emperor all the way up to the usual thing of being a prisoner who is summoned by the Emperor to that meeting experienced in the intro cutscene. However, that cutscene will ALWAYS have Uriel state that you are his friend. "I ask this as your Emperor. And your friend." My experience with the first game, Arena, was very brief and I downloaded it when they were offering it on their website as a free download before they released the Anthology with all five games in one boxed set. Argonians were some green human model in that game and that threw me off and I never touched the game again.
I downloaded Arena when it was free on steam. I got lost in the cell after battling copius amounts of rats, rested to heal, only to have the rest interrupted by more rats, repeatedly, and eventually died from them. Also haven't touched it since.
Starting each game as a prisoner was given some weird significance after the fact, starting with Morrowind. It was always hinted at but MK pointed it out explicitly out of context. The Daggerfall protagonist, the only one who arguably didn't begin the game as a prisoner (but who also arguably did) and who was in the only game until Skyrim that gave the player significant choices (as in, choices that would affect final outcomes for the world- Picking a Great House in Morrowind does not really change anything that happens thereafter, but deciding who gets the Mantella or who wins the Civil War definitely does, and Daggerfall and Skyrim both feature justifications for a "Dragon Break" that resolves mutually-exclusive outcomes into a single timeline), is called "the Agent," which on the one hand means a kind of "secret agent" sent by the emperor to perform certain discrete tasks, but also has the meaning of "a being possessing free will." The "metaphor of the prisoner" in general can be interpreted in two opposite ways: Either by beginning in a state of imprisonment and escaping, the prisoner becomes conscious and demonstrates liberation, gaining free will at the moment that they become the player's handle (from this perspective, because of the player they are among the few beings in this universe that can actually act of their own agency), or they begin as prisoners as a metaphor for the fact that they are among the few beings in this world that actually have no agency whatsoever, their every action being decided by some outside force (ie the player, who is controlling them). The fact that the answer could go either way and isn't clear and is really an abstract philosophical question rather than an actual answer may not be satisfying, but that is the lore reason that since Morrowind the player character starting the game as a prisoner was codified into a rule for the series. What they were imprisoned for doesn't really matter (though Skyrim actually tells us, kind of), and they could just as easily start the game as a slave or indentured servant for example.
@@goatslayer3160Skill issue. You were ratblocked.
Considering the hero of kvatch knows the fine and penalties for Necrophilia I think we know why they’re in prison
What if _both_ theories are true? What if the Gods create you in your jail cell, but instead of simply building you from scratch right then and there, they literally rewrite history so that you are born and grow up, and then end up in the jail cell? This would make sense, as the Gods could mold the exact champion they have in mind, and then rewrite history to bring their champion right to them? For example, on one of my recent playthroughs, my character was a Redguard swordsman who grew up on Stros M'kai, and dabbled in some light piracy here and there; the piracy may or may not have had something to do with his incarceration, and when he asked the Emperor why he was in jail, he was hoping to get confirmation that his piracy years had caught up with him. Only to find out that not even _the Emperor himself_ knew what the charges were, so he made his way through the sewers, and from there it was a pretty typical playthrough. Visits Anvil, gets roped into buying Benirus Manor, eagerly joins the Fighters' Guild, reluctantly joins the Mages' Guild, yadda yadda yadda. But to look back at my theory: The character was a Redguard from Stros M'kai who engaged in some light piracy. I don't see why the Gods couldn't pull some timey-wimey shenanigans to create that exact sort of individual. The Gods want a former petty pirate, so by sheer "coincidence", history gives us a former petty pirate. I mean, Cyrodiil was originally a tropical rainforest in the style of the Amazon jungle, and Talos turned it into a temperate rainforest in the style of Western and Central Europe. And that was the actions of a _single God,_ so the entire pantheon coming together and rewriting history to give them the perfect champion doesn't sound so far-fetched to me.
Considering that is what the Elder Scrolls are capable off, that sounds pretty plausible. In fact, the thieves guild questline ends with exactly that happening when Corvus Umbranox uses a scroll to "fix" the curse on the Gray Cowl of Nocturnal.
I still Play oblivion and it holds a special place in my heart.
I like your theory I think the Dark Brotherhood set you up for a murder. in the mission we had to kill the dark elf the prison and they knew you were in that prison 2
Now that makes sense.
In skyrim when romlyn dreth speaks about his ancestor valen dreth he tells hero of Kvatch killed 6 Imperial officers before he went to jail thats how insane he is.
I always assumed it was common knowledge that the plot of Oblivion leans heavily on determinism as its founding principles. That's what Martin implies in his speech to you advising of his plan to allow the Oblivion Gate to be opened at Bruma. Of course there is an element of divine will at play in the life of the character, given what we know in hindsight, and Martin too leaves open this possibility. "It wasn't the gods who saved us, it was you. Were you acting for the gods? I don't know. But now it's my turn to act." His acting, with or without pious intentions, accomplishes the will of the gods. It's definitely a fun topic to discuss that few people really appreciate, so I appreciate your input! Through gameplay reasons I must personally disagree that the character doesn't know what they were arrested for, since except for Glarthir and the player they usually tell every NPC what the charges are before they are put to death. Even Aldos Othran, who the Guard is actively scamming AND who is known to be the town drunk, was told to pay the fine for threatening a guardsmen before he was killed in the streets. That's more of a head-cannon issue though, I just personally couldn't see why I would be locked up in the capital city of an empire without any explanation, when I could be locked up in Cheydinhal with openly corrupt guards who would still tell me that they're stealing my home before trespassing me from it.
"doesn't know" or "can't remember"? Even if the crime committed wasn't "public intoxication" as some have suggested, it's not exactly unusual for someone to commit a crime while so plastered they couldn't remember being arrested, let alone what for, by the time they come to 🤷
The whole point of the prison start in the elder scrolls was a roleplaying dealio. Like for one character you may be falsely imprisoned, but another may totally deserve it
What if I told you, that the entirety of The Elder Scrolls, was a dream? A dream of a massive entity known as the God Head. When one achieves CHIM, like Vivec, they realize their reality is a dream, but their willpower is so strong, that they will themselves into reality, and disappear from the dream. Like the dwarves (debatable) and Vivec himself. TES lore is insane.
With how wacky and out there the lore can be at times, that would be fitting.
Oh yeah, the God Head is a very real thing. CHIM is almost like a philosophy it's said it leads you to self realization which zero sums you out of reality. Only by achieving CHIM can you exist outside the dream, or "God Head." It's a major theory concerning the disappearance of the dwarves. Once they were able to get to the Heart of Lorkan and strike it with a hammer, they zero summed. Possibly by uncovering the truth about their existence, due to their hunger for arcane knowledge.@@HappyBeezerStudios
i like to think, it's actually plausible that the gods put you in that cell. the first gives the first clue away, your character themselves doesn't know why you were there. the second is the guards themselves, as they get near your cell, the guard captain and Boris doesn't recognize you. in fact she even asks what's this prisoner doing here, and Boris says, maybe it was a mix up with the watch. that's an important thing to note, because anytime the Empire sentences and locks a prisoner up, they know who they are. now the mix up Boris is referring to, you can apply that to our character in Skyrim. they didn't know who we were, but we were still sentenced either way. only instead of imprisonment, we were gonna be executed, but no matter what sentence was handed out, if they put you in a cell, they'll know your supposed to be there. another clue to me is the fact that he knew you would be in that cell, he even said perhaps the gods placed you here. now Bethesda does have to give a reason, some people think it's just a role playing element, of you going from a complete nobody to someone special overnight. yeah i can see that part, but i like to think im someone important in this world. so i definitely think it's possible, also i think the actual prisoner is the guy in the other cell, the one who reacts to our race depending on your background, and i think our character was perfectly timed to be there. so it's understandable why they were surprised, especially Boris, but to him if the king trusted you with something that important, he has no reason to be suspicious now. great game.
main character has some sus intel on necrophilia tbh 😂😂
😂😂😂 I think so
1:53 Not exactly correct. It wasn't cause of his dreams giving him foresight, but rather the events of Elder Scrolls Arena wherein he was cast to Oblivion by Jagar Tharn (the game's final boss) until saved by the player. While in Oblivion he wandered aimlessly and barely remember the years he spent there except as half remember nightmares which showed the events of the game Oblivion. In other words, he's remembering his suppressed/blocked memories through nightmares/dreams. Not getting magical foresight through his dreams
Its left unknown simply for the player to fill in. just like how you choose your class. You might have been a bard that insulted the wrong noble. Could be a soldier who fled during a battle. Might be a merchant wrongly accused of selling illegal items. Or just a outlander that murdered some people. The idea of the story is that fate/the gods have something in store for you, and your true story begins here. Whoever you were and what you did before becomes inconsequential, and just a minor foundation for the skills you require in the future.
KISS - Keep It Simple, Stupid. A policy first introduced when Todd Howard assumed the steering wheel in Bethesda. Rather than find good explanation for many ideas and question they are left deliberately vague, for good or ill. "Why was any of the heroes starting in Morrowind imprisoned?" "I dunno, who cares? Just fill in the blanks."
All that matters is what you think the reason for it is. Objectively, you seek an answer to the question which you already answered before you began the journey.
You got arrested for stealing a sweet roll.
My theory was the Emperor had us put there so we'd be in the right place to get the timeline he wanted. Until you mentioned the i've seen you in my dreams line. I forgot about that. It definitely gives the impression that he did not know you would be there.
I just held it in my own head canon that the Oblivion protagonist was a soldier/adventurer who was in the wrong place at the wrong time and then given a wild card of prison releases.
Before watching the video For me, it depends on the nature of my character. As it were, I just started a new game and my character is a young Redguard healer. It wouldn't make any sense for him to be there for an actual crime. So, my backstory involves him coming to the Imperial City (from Anvil) to find his brother so they can go to their grandmother's funeral. Thing is, with the credible intelligence the city guard has about an attempted assassination, the city is on lockdown with a curfew, which my PC didn't know about. Even tho he was clearly not up to no good, since he had no ties to the city, no place to be, the guard decided they had to put him in a holding cell until the crisis was over. Of course, that was the cell with the secret passage. (The reason they used that cell was because, even tho they knew that cell was supposed to remain vacant, the rest of the jail was full due to other curfew-breakers. The only cell with space was Valen Dreth's, and since I wasn't actually a criminal, they figured putting me in there with him would be cruel and unusual, so they just stuck me in the one empty cell. Of course, since it was a secret escape route, no guard knew about the escape route and saw no reason not to just stick me there for the night).
I like the added immersion! It’s probably what Bethesda intended when making the game was for the player to come up with their own backstory!
It's easy to figure out we were in jail. We probably accidentally knocked over a bottle at a tavern, or picked up a book in a store
In my head canon, after being done in Vvardenfell in Morrowind, he ride hes horse and made sort of "illegal crossing" between borders. Imperial guards hunted him down, strip him down from all of hes belongings and took him in jail in imperial city. I kinda write my character like its one and the same in all games, like he gets capture in Daggerfall and gets sold in slavery in third game. Time table between oblivion and skyrim is explain that he goes back home land (Dragon age world during second game) and then leave in witcher world (where he loses hes memory and gets lost for 10-15 years) and after that returns to skyrim.
I don’t like the notion of being sceptical of the first theory because you have prison clothes on. Like it’s completely ok for the gods to have custom made you and placed you in prison at the exact perfect time, but it’s out of the question that they could have put some rags on you?
The more Oblivion KZheadrs the better. Always nice to listen to different opinions on the games.
It's obvious. Going to prison is the onlay way to reduce your skills. He was powerleveling.
For my character, it's a mix of destiny and Audens Avidius wrongful arrest with a bump to the head. [hence some memory loss]
I think one of the most interesting things about Oblivion we are given our first tragic hero. Morrowind has the reincarnated hero of legend. Skyrim has the last Dragonborn. Here, we are nameless, with no history, no title, no lore to our purpose. We are simply a means to an end in order for Martin to be delivered to Lord Dagon and stop the Oblivion Crisis. Yes there will always be the tale of the “Hero of Kvatch”, but who is that compared to Martin Septim, savior of Cyrodiil and ultimately all of Nirn? We are a footnote to history.
The nine divines have a plan for your character, a path your character creates as their own. Hence, the nine divines, the gods, Uriel mentions, are the developers at Bethesda laying out your fate before you. Releasing this game to allow you decide what you want to play as, what your quest shall be the moment you start a new game.
The guard pointing at the cell while looking up at the camera is funny, it's like he's saying "Get down from there and back in your cell."
My head canon has always been that while visiting some store, you tried to move something out of your way, and stole it by mistake, leading to you being beaten unconscious and thrown in prison. The concussion you suffered during the beating is what caused the retrograde amnesia.
Falsely accused of involvement in the murder of the emperor's sons. That's what I'll run with in my playthroughs.
I like it! I can totally see it too!
That would be a difficult thing to pull off, especially considering that at the start of the game the emperor have just gotten the message and it only says that they were attacked.
@@Danjen3ifyThe messenger could be wrong/confused as well. Maybe the messenger wasn't even around to witness it but was merely told to deliver a message and couldn't get into specifics. Lots of things could go wrong leading up to that being a plausible scenario
Arena, the Hero is a loyal member of the Blades / Emperor's elite members of his guard, though he was locked away after he realized Tharn is impersonating Uriel. The second game Daggerfall, is a blades agent. (Not the eternal hero of Arena), Though what happened to the agent, is an engima. Though a sixth ending was that The agent activated the Numidium, and it killed him out anger of being reactivated, and it took the combined forces of Highrock, Northern hammerfell, the underking, the Orcs, and Imperial legion to bring the brass titan down for good. Since all endings happened in Daggerfall.. Its canonically possible that Agent is dead.
Shows how important Uriel Septim VII is. The protagonists of Battlespire, Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind and Oblivion all are acting more or less in his name. And all the games take place within a 35 year timeframe.
My assumption is the hero of kvatch came from skyrim. And the reverse happened in skyrim as we come from tameriel. And it still works cause if you come from skyrim then you were just probably coming to tameriel for something and as someone mentioned got arrested by the jerk guard in the imperial city and got in a scuffle and knocked out.
What is interesting is I think you can revisit the Imperial prison via the outside and it seems no one recognizes you.
Also, Glenroy the other Blade accuses you of being with the assassins. In fact, Glenroy tries to attack you and kill you until the Emperor stops him. Glenroy is always hostile towards you. He always sees you as a threat. He actually says, "The Emporer may trust you, but I don't! Stay out of our way "
He changes his tone with the more assassins you kill. I've gotten him to say "Maybe the Emperor was right about you, just stay out of our way and we'll get along fine."
@@dragondude9637 I’ll have to try that. Thanks. 😊
My theory is- criminal scum was locked in the cell. But a "walk-in soul" transfer took place, right before meeting the Uriel Septim
Watching this whilst on my break at work. It's rejuvenating.
I always felt the prisoner start is so the player is free to decide why their character is in prison. Allowing them to decide how they start.
Something i wish RPGs did is depending on our class, traits, race and gender, the game would lock you into only being able to perform certain quests and guilds and have a specific personality and dialogue options. It's bizarre that Todd considers it a positive that the player becomes the leader of all the guilds and sees everything on their first playthrough. The guilds have drastically different morals, goals and skills. If i play as a noble Imperial in Oblivion and want to join the Dark Brotherhood, i should be forced to start a new game and create the character that would be associated with that kind of stuff. Cause then you don't have the issue of "the prophesized hero who helped save the world is also a satanic assassin or the world's most elusive thief." I would also do a unique trick with the game where you would hear about your other created characters moving up in certain guilds or having performed quests, so that the game gives the impression each of your created characters are simultaneously canon since they are locked into their roles and specific questlines. It would add replayability to the game to do this and create immersion for the player and provide a sort of customizable reactivity in the world. Imagine also seeing glimpses of your other characters in the world performing tasks or traveling as a NPC. Maybe interact and team up with them, provided the character you're currently playing as is not of the opposite alignment, cause then you would just be attacked by your own characters. This could be done by simply having the game read your saves and spawn your characters into the world. This also allows certain content to be dedicated to your character's traits and skills instead of having quests or levels be designed in a jack of all trades combat crawl. Granted, this would require a limit on how many characters you could create, so the tech could probably only support a handful of them overall. I don't think crafting radically different prologue levels like in Dragon Age: Origins is necessary nor fulfilling because that stopped mattering after the level and just turned into flavor text afterwards. Granted, i do appreciate that Dragon Age: Origins went that far in trying to make your character feel different when other games don't bother. I don't think what I've suggested would be difficult to program into the game and i think RPG players would really dig the idea. This idea would also require that either none or only one of the characters you created could be the chosen one, but that's fine with me. The main quest could still be something flexible for the different classes, it just would nee it's story altered to align with the created characters. For example, a thief would be after the amulet of kings or Daedric relics which is how they get drawn into that questline, a assassin would be hired to target the emperor or blades, a knight would be tasked with protecting the realm and martin and a mage would be brought in to help fight the Daedra invasion and investigate the Mythic Dawn.
"Your character was likely embarking in a brief visit to the capital of Cydrodiil, the Inperial City." Me who made my HOK a young pirate who got caught during a poorly timed Imperial raid - poorly timed because she was the only pirate on board: 😅
Imagine finding that secret passage on your first night in the cell, a few goblins later and you are home free.
If I had to make any personal theory, it would be that a commoner arrested for a crime of some sort was possessed by divine intervention, and then you (the PC) assume control and autonomy of the host. It would explain a lot of the issues brought up in the game. The second theory is quite close to this though, asides that the host is the character in the past prior to the jailing.
Enjoyed my week off from work by just watching Oblivion content. Great job 👍
Obvious answer is we don't know so as to allow the answer to be projected onto the character. But whatever the encounter was likely happened within the city and was considered obvious enough to involve rapid processing. But also a lesser enough crime to not draw any eyes afterwards. You also have no valuables stowed from your arrest and are not recognized by anyone in the city. Nor do you have any holdings or station to fall back on after release. So my assumption is you are poor, itinerant and unimportant. Your crime likely did not involve anyone but the guards, so it was likely a case of being in the wrong place, or you were rounded up in an unrelated aspect of an investigation and forgotten once it resolved otherwise. Either this or your crime was petty. Your cell apparently was not normally used if it was primarily there as a method of escape, so either the cells were packed and your stay was considered short, or the guard processing you was new and inexperienced. Either way everything seems to point at you being a poor nobody who either did something technically wrong or was caught up in something a guard didn't like.
Alternatively the hero of Vvardenfell was directly guided to his destiny by the hand of Ashura, the divine with the most subtle yet constant presence in Cyrodiil is Nocturne, with an entire quest line dedicated to putting a character's name back onto the Elder Scrolls themselves after she removed a thief from the collective memories of the world. When not in Mask the first meeting with The Grey Fox he is surprised that you even noticed his presence and with repeated dialog he comes to point out that it's been years since anyone has approached him. That would infer the hand of Nocturne in the reason that neither the player nor anyone else remembers your crime. My personal theory is that the character was something of an independent footpad whom Nocturne chose as most suitable replacement for her personal servant in the capital city. In Skyrim we learned from the Nightingale quests that she controls the fates of all thieves and that when her favor is strong the thieves are invisible, but not matter their skills if they are easily caught when she is unhappy. Another approach is that by some chance the character touched the Mask of Nocturne, becoming the Grey Fox in the eyes of the gaurds for enough time to get arrested, but not enough for the memories to set into reality. Officially getting arrested in a case of mistaken identity, and then getting the crime memory holled the next time the forgotten count put the mask on himself.
I like to think that the main character is insane before getting arrested and sent to the Prison in the Imperial City. Because he or she becomes Sheogorath at the end of the game. Skyrim the next game has some dialouge to prove it too.
Every faction and DLC is canon in that they all happened. But it's not canon that the same person did all the questlines. It wouldn't make sense for the leader of the Dark Brotherhood to also become the Divine Crusader. Likewise it makes no sense for the Divine Crusader (a servant of the Nine Divines!) to become Sheogorath. Some might argue since Shivering Isles is DLC it's more canon, but so is Knights of the Nine. I never do both in a single playthrough because they are simply not compatible. Keep in mind, as well, that this is the same studio that invented the concept of a Dragon Break because they didn't want to force an ending on us when there's a choice. Not everyone becomes Sheogorath. Therefore it's not canon. It's only canon that someone mantled Sheogorath. Whoever it was did live through the Oblivion Crisis, so him saying that he was there for the whole affair doesn't prove anything.
@@Danjen3ify Even being the Divine Crusader as The Listener of the Dark Brotherhood could make sense considering the fact that the Prophet has unique dialogue if you tell him you listen for the night mother. Prophet: Are you a worthy knight? Player: No. I listen for the Night Mother. Prophet: The gods will find you an interesting plaything.
I agree with the first part, but for the rest, I feel the hero is an agent of akatosh. Akatosh picked the hero at random, probably a homeless bum, and when akatosh chose them, they went insane, ran rampant throughout the imperial city, and was stopped by the guards. Then snapped out of it, without any memory whatsoever, waking up in the cell.
Loved the video Cant wait to see more tes content like this!
What if the player character is a “prophet,” entering into a trance like state to speak for the nine? As a subclass of cleric, it explains why they start the game with healing spells that, if common, would make other fights in the game much longer. A prophet would not be needed in the Imperial Capital if the Emperor has similar powers. However, the Emperor may be in denial due to normal fears about their own mortality. A second prophet was sent from a distant land so that the prophetic dreams would not be dismissed as “mere dreams.” The Emperor would have been difficult to see, in addition to the business of running an empire, they might not want to hear “the bad news.” A guard might offer to relay the message, but even in the Bible a prophet giving a message of disaster is treated as “disturbing the peace.” Panic and disrupting normal business to prepare for the disaster is treated as being bad for the Empire, especially if the prophecy is false. The foreign prophet is charged with “treason,” suspected of intentionally destabilizing the empire as a preamble to invasion by and war with their country of origin. Their crime is not made public knowledge due to such knowledge leading to uncomfortable questions about the exact wording of the prophecy. However, there is a cell “for the Emperor’s use.” While the secret passage is, of course, “secret,” a warden without that knowledge may have the following interpretation. “For the Emperor’s use” may refer to prisoners who are placed in custody because the have knowledge that could be dangerous to the Empire if made public. With a college for wizards conveniently located in the Imperial City, it is possible that a wizard could research a new spell that could destabilize the economy. In Skyrim there is a spell to turn iron ore into silver ore, and silver ore into gold ore. While bandit rumors of turning “wood into gold” are false, if a wizard in Oblivion discovered the same spell it could destabilize an economy based on “the gold Septim coin.” While far from the only use of magic that could cause problems, having a prison cell for wizards with dangerous knowledge seems prudent. Using it for a foreign prophet “speaking lies” would seem an acceptable use of the cell now that the previous tenant is a skeleton whose secrets died with them. The prophet, in need of guidance, “surrenders their will to the Nine.” It would be difficult to keep faith in a prison cell. Rather than a vision of their eventual release, their are taken over by “the Player.”
Finally! Now we're answering the real questions we've all been wondering about.
It could have been that corrupt imperial watchman
In this case I'm pretty certain that by "lesser men" Baurus is referring to the fact that Uriel is royalty and has the dragon blood. Don't think it's supposed to be a dig at the pc.
I think I’ve struck gold discovering this channel.
The more videos I watch on channels like these... Feels like I finally have to give this one game a chance.
I like the fact you cover all the ideas and theories, even if you don't put stock in them yourself 😊 I agree with you and the 2nd theory.
Depends on how we roleplay tbh. Currently on an Orc that happens to be signed Theif, he just derps around and happens to be a Goth.
Yes! Very fair with regards to the immersion!
As a game master I have a few ways to start games: 1:) Old Mode, you meet in a tavern. 2:) Bethesda'd, you are all prisoners. 3:) Attack, the small starting town is under siege. These have always served me well lol.
I think its the same as Skyrim...minus the harsh execution. He was caught crossing the border, probably got drunk or something and was caught. With no "vesa" as we would put it, and no idea wha to do with him, they throw him into a cell till he sobers up. This also would explain his memory loss.
Beginning of the video: “they couldn’t have been teleported” 10 minutes later: “they were teleported”
😂 I did mention I didn’t like the teleportation theory and that I thought there were holes
Mephala surly has a subtle touch. I would not put it past her to put the character in the right spot at the right time to get arrested for something.
First one can’t be possible due to one of the vampire dreams saying “In a dream from your childhood you remember playing hiding games with your young friends on a warm summer afternoon. You hide in your parents' barn, sure you will not be found”
what question i would prefer answered is, the emperor knew he was going to be assassinated but no one knows how he knew.
It's because the "Hero" has always started out in prison. Way back to Arena, up to even Skyrim; you are either falsely accused, or genuinely accused for all the player knows, but always imprisoned and potentially awaiting death at the start. At this point, it's both tradition, as well as a bit lazy, and somewhat disrespectful to player choice in character background. (Daggerfall you could debate, but you end up shipwrecked in a dungeon with fuck all to your name, having to fight your way out with realistically very little chance to succeed all the same, so it's close enough) Redguard, Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim all started just like Arena did. So it's a trend, not something that needs a theory crafting session.
I thought they wanted you to make up your own back story. I made up that my character was the son of a bandit. The father got imprisoned many years earlier & was transported to Morrowind. So, my character's father is my main character in Morrowind. The dad's bandit buddies (still in Cyrodiil) were wiped out by Ogre's leaving the son (who escaped) to fend for himself, going around begging and pick pocketing until caught and thrown in the imperial city jail. Hence, starting the Oblivion quest. My character in Skyrim is the great great grandson of my character in Oblivion.
I like to think the Hero was a drunk tourist. The guards didn't know who it is, and just put 'em in the special cell to let him sleep it off. Hence why the character doesn't remember anything, why you got placed in the unused prison, and after escaping no guard tries to immediatly arrest you.
The crossing the border drunk theory is so far my favorite and oddly enough the most plausible.
The system of law in that setting has suspects guilty until proven innocent. A court hearing may have well been in the works, and the HoC was waiting for their hearing, and then the story elements started. So the HoC could be innocent, or guilty of something. But the guards checking out the empty cell would speak to the other prisoner who pointed out the emperor himself showed up and drug HoC away.
Honestly, there's another possibility: in Skyrim, there's a quest "A Night To Remember" where you get drunk with a disguised individual (_I'm keeping the spoilers to a minimum in case others haven't seen/played through that quest_) where you wake up, having apparently gone on a quite the chaotic rampage across Skyrim in your epically drunken stupor, but remembering literally none of it and can choose to go around trying to find out what you did. It's entirely possible that this same individual is the reason you ended up in prison, with the only likely difference being that very few saw what you actually did.
The developers probably let the player create their own backround. Probably the divines don't create someone to be a dark broterhood assasin or a molag bal worshipper vampire.
There is definitely a level of interpretation from the developers on who the player was! I think with the second theory, it lines up a little more with regards to the player being able to do some heinous things!
I always figured that I was locked up was because what player did in Morrwin. But I played all the Elder Scroll games as if I was the same character.
The eternal champion, the agent, the Nerevarine, the hero of kvatch, and the dragon born are explicitly different people.
Headcanon for my hero of kvatch is that they were around when one of Uriels sons got killed. The mythic dawn agents had fled the scene, and the hero was conveniently close to the body for a guard captain to arrest them and sent to the imperial prison for interrogation at a later date
I think Daggerfall is the only entry in the main series where the player doesn't start as a prisoner, since Arena literally opens with you breaking out of prison, just like you do in Oblivion. In Daggerfall, by contrast, you are actually a friend or at least trusted agent of the Emperor and are sent personally to Iliac Bay as an imperial agent, with no mention of a pardon or prison sentence.
The emperor had dreams of the player character. He gave your character's decription to the guards ordered your arrest. Up until skyrim, Lorkhan was giving the emperor dreams about your character, thats how you always ended up in his custody.
i have never looked at that absolute ballcrusher chandelier cage before, tbh i don't think i ever looked in the cells hallway before, ty for sharing
Uriel was imprisoned in Mehrunes Dagon's realm of Oblivion and impersonated by Jagar Tharn. (Probably spelled that wrong) but during his time, he was sleeping and he had dreams of your character stopping the Oblivion Crisis. That's why he trusted you so much. Battlespire is pretty much rescuing Uriel and stopping Tharn.
They leave it ambiguous so you, the player, can come up with the reason. No one ever talks about it. Maybe you were falsely accused. Maybe you did something horrible. Maybe you did something petty. The only crime we know it couldn't have been is murder, because the Dark Brotherhood doesn't come for you until after you kill an innocent in-game.
But you yourself can be a target of the brotherhood. Unless I'm getting the games mixed up.
my thought comes from when I was very young and played through the first 2 games. I always thought that at the end of daggerfall when the dragonbreak happens he uses that time to put us in a safe location seeing what will happen in the future. I don't really remember the ending to daggerfall anymore since I haven't played it since oblivion came out.
Actually, picking a class at the end of the tutorial implies that we were created and placed in the cell by divine power. If our class truly rpresents skills we already know then we should already be in possion of those skills before the story begins. Likewise, the fact that we have no Birthsign is more evidence that we did not exist before the start of the story. Presumably, a birthsign is something we get at birth (otherwise the name makes no sense whatsoever). If we existed before the story started, we would already be in possion of a birthsign and we would already have a class.
No mention of the Hero knocking a Sweetroll onto the floor, picking it up, and being arrested for it?
I like how you mentioned all elder scrolls games up until now ❤
I believe it’s said that Uriel Septim also made a habit of releasing prisoners in times of strife in the belief they’d be heros, following his rescue from Oblivion and the death of the usurper Jagar Tharn.
HoK: "Why am I in prison?" Emperor: "Perhaps the -devs- Gods placed you in here so that we may meet" (wink-wink)
There isnt a single answer. Because it is up to the player. A player makes a nord. He is a massmurderer that is why he is in jail. He lies "why am in jail?" Then you decide to make a redguard. He got thrown in for the night in wrong cell for being drunk (or they just thought he was drunk) A bosmer that crossed the border without papers. Then a high elf that arrested by a corrupt guard wanting a bribe. The nine placed a breton there. A guard was blank in his eyes. Controlled. "Come with me" and put in jail. Etc etc
For my latest character, I roleplay as something like a merchant. I imagined she got drunk at the merchant's inn and got arrested for some minor offense. The guard who arrested her is some hot-headed a-hole who recently got this job so he just wanted to use his authority and throw some foreigners in jail. Also he wasn't aware this cell wasn't supposed to be used. And my character doesn't know why she is in jail because she didn't do anything criminal (or at least she was too drunk to remember idk)
There's an interaction where you know the minimum fine for necrophilia (being 500 gp). Do with that as you will.
😂😂 I might have to remake the video to make this the new conclusion 👀
Don't you find that dialogue option during a quest in anvil?
No its a dumner in chorrol I think
@@katzchenschatzchen6751I think you're probably right. Sounds right anyway. I do remember it being a dark elf woman that says or triggers it, but that's all I really remember. There's people in middle school that weren't even alive the last time I played this game 😂😂😂😂 sigh, God damn I feel old 😅
@@commandershepard4235dont worry youre not alone 😂