The Future of Bowhunting is Under Attack w/ Chris Dunkin & Skip Sligh | HUNTR Podcast
In this episode of HUNTR Podcast, we bring on guests Chris Dunkin and Skip Sligh to discuss some of the current issues with bowhunting today and what we can do as hunters to improve our experience moving forward. While the idea of hunter opportunity is great, it's been taken too far resulting in more bad than good for the archery hunting community. We talk about these issues all the time and it's up to us to make a difference. Whether that be separate crossbow seasons, eliminating baiting, or having some sort of regulation from state-to-state, it's important that we find a way to create more access for hunters. We also touch base on the recent EHD outbreak in the midwest and how it may change things for a lot of hunters this season. Sit back, relax, and enjoy the show as the guys get deep into the politics of deer hunting and what we can do as a community to make a difference.
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Wisconsin is sitting at 57% crossbow kills in bow season so far if I’m doing my math correctly. “Don’t have the time to practice with a bow” “Dialed in at 100” “Shot him at 68 yards through the timber” Doesn’t sound like bow hunting to me. At a minimum the crossbow season should be shortened, if not removed for anyone who isn’t a youth, senior, or injured hunter.
Say it again brother
I'll give you a different perspective as I do hunt with a cross bow in WI. I could maybe practice if I wanted to learn, but I hunt from the ground within a somewhat urban environment, have 3 under 3, and a full time job. Public land is packed with people in SE WI as there just isn't much of it. A lot of swamps making getting into a tree in some spots impossible. Hunting is hard any way you look at it and most crossbows still max out at 40-50 yards. It's still all about getting close and playing the wind and finding deer. By the logic above, gun hunting then isn't hunting since you can shoot deer at 200-500 yards with it. There's plenty of deer here and I have only seen 2 does so far while putting up my stand. The amount of people hunting has been consistently dropping across the country for a number of (stupid, imo) reasons, why not try to get more participation? Once you go, it's addicting, as I have only been going for 8 years starting at 30. Getting a deer to shoot at is incredibly hard, missing because of an equipment failure, lack of time, or having unethical hits, is silly. The challenge is in the hunt, not the shot, for some of us. A bad hit or miss could be the difference in meat for the entire year.
@@MyPointofPewfirst things first I’m glad youre able to get out and enjoy the outdoors and hunt. That’s the one positive that comes from crossbows is that it does get people hunting. Second though, I never claimed crossbow hunting wasn’t hunting. I said it wasn’t bow hunting. Crossbows are much much more lethal than vertical bows. No drawing the bow, no holding weight, shouldering of the crossbow, scopes, tripods… crossbow season needs to be a shorter time frame, you can’t have them on the same level as vertical bows. The reason gun season is short is because they’re significantly more lethal than bows. Similar limitations should be applied to crossbow seasons at this point. Bow hunting isn’t supposed to be easy.
It's more about the level of entry and effectively controlling their numbers. You can buy a decent crossbow that can take a deer at 30 yards for a few hundred dollars... you buy a compound bow that can do what most crossbows can and you're looking at a grand+ easy... at that point you might as well spend the money on a high end crossbow that can shoot 80 yards. Im not sure how often you've hunted with a crossbow, but most people aren't taking shots past 30 yards because they're much louder than a compound bow and maybe twice as fast, but if its not breaking the sound barrier, twice as fast is only good for so far... about a half a second... maybe. You also have to consider how clean the kill is. I've had much cleaner kills with a crossbow than a compound bow. Almost all my crossbow kills are straight through and they drop within 50 yards, its about 50/50 if my compound bow goes all the way through and I'm usually tracking atleast 100 yards or more. but what's a more ethical point of entry, especially considering deer hunting is also very much about controlling their numbers when it comes to conservation. What's your alternative proposal? Increase bag limits for rifle and bow? Those numbers incease exponentially when you do that, vs making it slightly easier to take a deer.
😂 you've never used a crossbow have you? You don't just shoot a deer through the "timber" any easier than you would a compound bow or rifle even. Objects still deflect and bolts deflect just as easy as arrows or bullets. Also, unless your spending about $1800 on a crossbow, your not taking most dear past 40 yards probably closer to 30, and even then, you're an idiot if you try to sight it at 100. You're maybe getting 450 fps, thats well below the sound barrier and well within their reaction time. There's a reason air rifles that shoot bolts are only allowed during rifle season and crossbows are allowed during archery.
All I ever did was rifle hunt and got a crossbow 2 years ago because it appealed to me being a gun hunter. But got my first compound last winter. This will be my first compound season but I am planning to use it all year even during rifle season because I enjoy the practicing and challenge of the compound. Gives me more drive and enthusiasm.
These comments make me smile. A passion for the challenge. More hunters like you will truly make hunting better!!
Gay
Honest question though what made you switch from crossgun to bow the archery parts of a crossgun or people making fun of you for shooting a crossgun
@@outdoorfun2607 when I got my crossbow I thought it was cool bc all I've known was rifle but honestly half the reason I got it was for hobby to shoot in backyard without the cost of ammo but once it was sighted in I got really bored with it really fast. I always thought a compound was out of my price range but once I found I could get a Bear for under $400 I got one and in one year I've put thousands of arrows thru it as hobby in backyard. Just really enjoy shooting it after work without ammo cost and even at night with a spot light.
100% man I agree! I shot my first buck with a bow this year in late season man and it was one of the greatest hunting experiences I've ever had. Been rifle hunting for years and bow hunting is significantly more challenging and more enjoyable. I feel its more respectful to the animal. You have to actually work hard to kill that animal. Good stuff buddy!!!
Minnesota does not have the highest number of hunters in the country. Pennsylvania does.
Access and cost is killing all hunting! Especially here in the south.
You said it Jeremy, your one phone call to a representative isn’t going to change anything, and that’s the problem. However there are strengths in numbers and it would take groups of us in multiple states too get what archers really want. It’s just really really hard to effect change when the people who should be representing us drag their feet and certain game agencies run wild with decision making.
Start at the 2h 7m mark…. The SOLUTION for all of us everyday hunters that need a voice!!! 👍
@@Iowa_Whitetailholy 💩. Didn't realize this was that long
@Mattj25 Because you haven’t paid attention, you don’t realize that the argument is over as far as crossbows. I keep repeating this, but 28 states now legalize crossbows for all hunters in all seasons. In all of those states, 60-70% of all deer harvested in “archery” season are taken with crossbows. You’re right, there is strength in numbers! Problem for you is that you were outnumbered awhile ago and still don’t know it.
Archery and crossbows should never be used in the same sentence.
@jessebuyler BS! Says you? Crossbows do not meet the definition of firearms. Never have. They do however meet the definition of archery equipment. Doesn’t matter if it’s not your definition.
Hey buddy, shooting off of wheels vertically is not different than horizontal. Stick bows and stone tipped homemade arrows only, right??
fucking A -the fact that it stayes locked at full draw makes it not archery. archery is a skill no matter what, you see skill in a crossbow -it takes more skill to shoot a gun
@Tughill Your definition, your opinion, but doesn’t change anything. Crossbows are now legalized in 28 states for all hunters in all seasons. In all those states, 60-70% of all deer taken in “archery” season are taken with crossbows. Fact! You are now in the minority and don’t set any definitions. For over 30 years crossbow hunting has been studied and the same facts have been found: No detrimental effect on the deer, not taking all the good bucks, state kill totals haven’t changed, not causing more poaching, not overcrowding the woods and not causing other hunters to quit. In America we have choices! It doesn’t effect what you do. No worries, we don’t mind you now joining our season.
Legalized from the crossbow companies paying lobbyists & politicians to slip it through. Usually no hunter input. Iowa data has hunters here overwhelmingly opposed to crossbows being put in archery season. Wisconsin past it hunters had “buyers remorse” from unintended consequences. Meetings in MO had overwhelming opposition to adding them (over 75%) & $ & politics snuck it through anyways. U might have won short term battles on throwing crossbows into archery but the outcome & how it was done are both incredibly sad & wrong. U celebrate getting it through the back door & I’ll agree, some guys say “what’s the easiest weapon?” & use it. What YOU don’t understand is more & more of these folks will have no where to shoot these crossbows!!! The places they do will have degraded age classes & quality of hunts. Feel bad for hunters in the states that got sold out. Not happening in iowa. They will stay for: their own season, not in our general archery season, for seniors & disabled. As it should be!!!
Jeremy is right ,most states guys will not pass on antlered deer. They don't care. In a local fb group , every day grown adult men posting pics of spikes. Adolescent deer and then brag about it. You just killed an uneducated, adolescent deer and then turn around and complain about no big deer. They don't look at age class ,most of these guys couldn't tell you how old a deer is. Personally I couldn't imagine shooting a buck under 4 and even 4 is pushing it for me. I want to see what's possible with a deer. If I need meat, I shoot a doe. We destroyed hunting when we turned it into a sport and as a way to make money. When money gets involved with anything it gets ruined. Humans are destructive by nature, been that way since the beginning of time and by the time we realize we need to do something, it's usually too late, the damage is done.
It’s almost at the destroyed point now ! Won’t be but a few years now
How do we get Skip to lobby for us here in Minnesota?
I’m helping right now!!!! U guys get the groups more organized and funded (not hard to be honest) & I’m happy to help. Very doable!!!!
I live in south east Michigan and I can say the quality of deer has gone way up in my 25 years. The same problems here though access is difficult. I think a large amount of hunters in michigan under 40 are passing deer Like never before cuz ya can't kill a 160 if you keep killing them at 130. If I had one rule change it would be move the guns to December and make it so you can't use both buck tags in the same season like guys killing 2 bucks with a gun....
BINGO!!!!!! Move guns out of rut & 1 buck- MI would be top tier!!!!! They’ve for sure improved in last 20 years where guys have managed a lot more & tightened access down. I hunted van buren, hillsdale, Jackson, Kalamazoo & allegan counties & the potential there is top tier.
Mason county here! I 100% agree we are starting to get some quality bucks here but I think there’s still plenty of room for improvement. One buck tag is an option but I don’t think Nov 15 will ever be changed as opening day of rifle its basically a holiday but I would love to see rifle season cut back to one week!
@@Iowa_Whitetail thanks for backing me up skip! I really appreciate that. Those county's you listed consistently produce our biggest animals. Oh man i just found out my brother inlaw owns 90 acres in Jackson Co. And no one in his family hunts they come from the city and music industry.
@@captaincripple7218 I agree about Nov. 15 and you are right thins are changing but so much room to make it better. I'm okay with 2 buck tags just not valid in the same season. Like you can't kill two bucks in gun season you get two buck tags but you have to use one in archery and one in another season during that year. I think alot of deer would still survive. Iowa and Illinois both are two buck states. Michigan won't change that because they want the tag revenue
I love my crossbow here in NY lol only can used Nov 4 -17
Jarad's question at 2:28 is the one that I suspect will drive the day. Given a choice a lot of hunters will pick crossbows and bait even it that means fewer "big" deer. That is the real problem is we are a group of people who are in conflict and with many opinions.
Quickest way to slow down the non residents buying up land in iowa and residents losing access is ending the forest reserve tax breaks. They tried to do it in the past and it was defeated in the legislature. County budgets suffer because of this tax break. Like it or not a lot of residents are walking away from deerhunting and they could care less about what happens at this point. Its a small handful of guys wantng big deer for the wall every year that are driving the average person out of the sport. Cut the buck tags back to one only no matter the weapon and the bowhunters will throw a hissy fit. Ending party hunting would be another positive move.
This is literally where we are in kentucky. The small community I use to have free run of nearly anything you can see and lease after lease and changing of ownership I have one terrible spot left. At least I get to have a place to take my kids but it's a 200 acre open field. No Turkeys on that property. Now I am down to turkey hunting public and the last time I did that 10 years ago I walked 4 miles and bumped 10 hunters and just left. It's discouraging. Tough to get my kids on birds without people just cutting you off. I can't afford a lease. Mabey that's my fault for not going to collage and getting a better paying job. I'm just a weekend guy. When I was growing up almost no one turkey hunted, turkey had been reintroduced to our area 20 years or so prior to me coming in to the hunting world and deer had to be brought back in mabey 40 years before that. At my time everyone gun hunted and it was to put meat in a freezer sure everyone wanted a big buck but it changed over night. Big deer the excitement the TV shows how to. Same with farms that had turkey and the deer hunters didn't care if you come in and shot turkey. You could get permission anywhere.Then it become popular. Rifle season opens and you will see a license plate from everywhere. Alabama guys come up and shoot every 2 to 3 year old deer they see because it's a 100 to 120 inch monster and they don't see that at home. They don't normally kill does. And locally the amish have moved in and man the deer they kill. It's unbelievable how many less deer we see compared to 20 years ago. Sad for my kids. I'm on the same page I need my own land that someone can't run me off of.
Jeremy, crossbows have been legal in OH during general archery season for over 30 years. I think the recent anti- crossbow resentment is really because of the Ravin and other ridiculous ultra high speed crossbows advertised at 100 yards effective range. I use a crossbow and buddies have always capped on crossbows but 90% of "normal" crossbows have a similar effective range to compound. I've hunted with all manor of bows and guns but have been using an Excalibur micro since like 2015 and 40 yards is really the effective range. Similar to most other kinds. I think all this swelling hatred is stemming from these new age technological freak crossbows that blow the effective range out of the water. I don't think they are as accurate as listed and I don't think with the price tag many people use them but that's just my experience. A regular model crossbow like an Excalibur I use does hold a slight advantage over a compound without having to practice as often or draw on a deer but I still kill most all my bucks at 10-20 yards the skill in hunting mature deer is really all about getting within close range during daylight. With those ravens the definition of close has changed
Shush, don't speak the truth. I don't think anybody wants to hear; they'd rather complain. It's like fly fishermen putting down spin fishers, and it's silly.
Not a fan of crossbows but what you said hits the nail on the head. Nobody had an issue with them when the "Horton Hunter" was being used and shooting 30 yards or less like the other archery hunters, now though its gotten out of hand with the new crossbows.
@@chaddial4123 well said
The turn in Ohio mirrors social media and trail cams. When people started posting big bucks over corn piles, it caught like a wildfire. The same goes for leasing.
the whining over crossbows by trophy hunters has gotten so obnoxious. idk how y'all surpassed the snob-like mentality that guys who ONLY fly-fish have that look down on spinning fisherman
I genuinely regularly enjoy this podcast but you guys gotta look at yourself in the mirror. "the future of bowhunting is under attack", as you're attacking it.
I’m sorry if you think the future of bowhunting is crossbows we are in a world of shit
@@HUNTRPOD so disappointingly arrogant
I live in crawford county pa. I have already found a few nice bucks dead in the past few days. It's heart breaking.
MN hunter here. We could have incredible deer hunting and quality here, but it will never happen nor will it change. If anyone wants a good laugh look at who the representative is who pushed crossbows through in MN.. Definitely an avid hunter LOL
As someone that lives in south central indiana, I am having the worst time this year finding a decent place to hunt. Public land is fairly limited and overran like crazy, even during archery season (mostly crossbow users sadly). I have knocked on about 5-10 doors so far and all said no. I plan on knocking on more but it’s really demotivating. Lost my best spot this year to the land owner’s family deciding to hunt. I am now considering leasing and or buying my own property. I hate the idea of leasing and becoming a part of the problem but seems like I have no other choice if I want to kill a quality buck in the coming years.
Don't say sorry for being American my dude, this is the beautiful thing about the little freedom we have left. If you work hard and harder to purchase a piece of this land for your own. That's the American dream and that is what these commy woke Marxist want to take from us. I know how you feel I grew up bowhunting and by highschool when I got my license I drove all over the state looking for places to hunt and the public land was a waste of time totally.... I learned how to hop a fence. Now I'm to old for that so I no longer even bother. That's how it is growing up in California. This place is beautiful but it's private and woke I'm in the market to leave asap
@@tattoojosh1so less and less public land is a good thing??
I agree OP. I have bow hunted over 30 years. There have been times when the popularity has gone up and down and the posers with money usually get weeded out in no time. But the last 3 years including this one. All the good spots, over looked spots, where the big boys are, is now over run with beer cans and trash. No new sign besides 1.5 yr olds. All the big good sign and buck bedding have been vacant for over two years now. I keep moving and looking for better spots but it getting worse and worse. To think that just 5 years ago I wouldn’t even see another hunter during the week and the bucks were still in the thick swamps. Not any more. Most the hunting property in my area is small even private. I am going to have to drive way up north to these huge swamps that people still aren’t getting into. Just have to find those spots that no one is going to. That’s where they will be.
Great podcast guys! By far the best whitetail podcast out there today. Some friendly criticism for you Jared, please quit interrupting your guests!
1:26:16 i wouldnt be a hunter anymore if it wasnt for crossbows and archery. Born in ‘92 in pa, first year hunting was ‘04 rifle season. Anyone whos hunted in pa knows rifle season died around ‘02 and it was certainly dead by ‘04. I didnt have the option to do anything but rifle hunt until ‘14. I didnt get my first deer until ‘14 archery season when I finally got a crossbow and took it out. Got my first buck in ‘15 with my crossbow. I was raised up to my ears in the hunting culture and hunting camp life, without being able to use a crossbow, I wouldn’t be hunting anymore just like the majority of my age group. And as far as land being bought up, 🤷♂️ ive hunted public land all my life in a state with massive amounts of public land and growing! Plus pa has huge swaths of state forest land that are not going anywhere, and is awesome to hunt. To the hunters bitching about losing access and saying crossbows arnt archery. Cry a little louder and maybe someone will get you a tissue. Why should i care? When you think I shouldn’t be hunting.
And why can't you shoot a vertical bow?? Born in 92 right? What the hell is your issue other than laziness
Drought is killing us down in western Kentucky and southern Missouri. Northern Missouri is okay. Need rain!
Facts. I live up a little south of Kansas City Missouri, but hunt in central southern Missouri and our farm is so dry I didn’t even have to brush hog this year. I have never seen it this bad. Granted I’m only 34, and have only been in charge of the farm for about 4 years. Still I have been going to that farm my entire life, and I can not remember government sending us money because of drought before this year. The cattle only had a handful of ponds with water.
Hunted for 21 years in Wisconsin (wrong side of state.) Been on maybe 14 out of state hunts. My 6 biggest bucks come All from out of state. We leave for iowa and other states that hold the age structure we desire. However when I do shoot that mature buck at home. It will mean a lot more based on the rarity and difficulty of growing one to maturity.
@nicschaalma3508 Now I call BS! Are you aware that WI is number one on the Boone & Crockett record books for over 100 years now? Where have you been? See, some get these ideas in their heads and run with it no matter what the facts are.
@@douglasborgaro6801 Wisconsin ppl are so proud they enter them in the books. All my Iowa friends laugh. Not one of them puts a deer in the record book that can be. The hunter has to enter the buck to be an entry. What if one area does it way more than others ?
@nicschaalma Sounds like some wonderful conspiracy theory. So you just claim corruption to excuse over a hundred years of records. The only way to achieve such records is to have the suitable measurements. Say what you can dream up in your Iowa mind, but WI kicks Iowas ass all the time. The only rival is certain parts of Canada. Fact! So out of being humble, Iowa’s hunters don’t register? Ha, you’re dreaming! Put up or shut up! It’s a scientific fact that the deer also achieve higher body weight up here than down in Iowa. The Mississippi River Block, the ice age mineral deposits. That’s what does it. By the way, Illinois is number 2.
@@douglasborgaro6801 you do realize that there’s zero evidence to support that the entire state is the reason that wi is the number one registerer. It’s buffalo county, and buffalo alone why wi is the number one for Boone….. Lots of landowners who want big bucks with good age class with limited public spots to hunt. Large chunks of private made into outfitters generations ago helps too. The rest of the state is hey let’s get drunk so it’s brown it’s down so we can go back to the bar. I’m not saying everyone but it’s the culture here is wi…. That’s the problem…
Buddy if u can’t get a good one 21 yrs in Wisconsin you in a bind
Im not ready!!!!!😢😢😭😭 damn near 2 weeks in to bow season And there's mandatory ot!!! 6 days a week 12 hrs a day!!! Honestly thinking about quitting!
In PA only farm workers, medical professionals and emergency responders can be mandated overtime but most of the working class doesn't know this and they just lay down and take it when their employer demands it.
I generally enjoyed this pod cast at first, having shot compound for 22 years, then switching to crossbow due to vision acuity. The issue with hunting loss is due to value put on big bucks directly related to first and foremost internet pod cast such as this, and tv show. Ohio's loss of access is directly related to the value placed on deer, from podcasts just as this.
Respectfully disagree. #1 issue degrading hunting is special interests pumping new seasons, weapons & killing. All to make $, grow profits & achieve their narrow special interest goals. What happens to hunters & how land has gotten locked up is a bi-product they could care less about!!! The biggest threats to hunters is NOT: PETA or anti-hunters or podcasts that educate folks. It’s the special interests pimps that want to make a buck exploiting states & hunters have reacted to them by locking up more land the more degraded they make the states. Period.
Vision? You can get contacts or glasses, they make corrective lenses for peeps as well. You can still hunt with a real bow if you wanted to.
@@austinhall5933are you his optometrist.. what a dick.. let me guess mathews guy?
@@austinhall5933 Not how it works, genius. Some of us have vision issues that can, at best, be marginally corrected. You would not last 90 seconds in my corrective lenses. But, I refuse to continue to justify to you “elitist assholes” just because you guys are so much better than those of us that don’t do it your way.
@shanedennis1487 Not the way what works? Maybe you don't understand the technology? If your vision isn't corrective with glasses and a verifier lens in a peep to the point you can SEE THE VITALS maybe take up fishing. I'm not an elitist, I just think there should be some level of difficulty to hunting. If you take the challenge out of hunting, you might as well drive into a pasture and shoot a cow.
We need more podcasts with Skip, I would love to hear everything he has to say about everything involving deer, deer hunting, habitat, and personal experiences involving deer.
Missouri had that early rifle last weekend, and I do agree we have too many doe in our area. It completely ruined the bow hunting, and forced me to scout. I kill doe every year for meat, but this damn early gun season should just be a crossbow season. The guns ruin what I live for, and that is to quietly kill deer. I bow hunt all year long, so I prefer to keep the guns out of our early season.
I live in Crawford County; the county you mentioned about the EHD. Makes me want to call the local warden and get more details. Were these deer found on public, what type of ground (wet, ag or hardwoods) etc. probably will get a run around from them about it. Thanks for the heads up about season closing on a Friday - I 100% would have been in a tree Saturday if I don’t fill my tag before then. Not gonna get started on PGC and the idiotic crap they do.
access to good land in MN is hard to impossible to come bye, because its less than half the state, the rest of the state is wide ass open to public hunting but isnt worth a damn, and hasn't been in 10 years
the zone I hunt in used to get 4-5k deer shot in it a year, now its sub 2k, hard winters, wolves, and super liberal deer limits during the 00's, came to head during the 2013-2014 winter that decimated the states deer population, pair that with wolf population exploding it hasnt been the same across a majority of the state since
Congratulations! 👏👏👏👏 🎉🎉🎉150🎉🎉🎉
Have not noticed EHD in Campaign county OH this year, last year we found 20 dead in a 50 acre area of the 450 acre property. Never found the 200”😢. Lots of TINY yearlings with no moms last year and this year half the does we have seen have no babies. The yearlings we have seen seem to be healthy.
here in missouri we now have gun seasons for 3 months off and on and tags for everyone including out of state hunters , i have been bowhunting for 45 yrs and have used everything from osage selfbows with flint tipped arrows to crossbows and enjoyed all of it, 25 yrs ago the top traditional industry guys were saying we need to stop the compound guys because they werent really bows, This crap goes round and round. Hunt with what you are confident with , quit wounding animals , stop fighting amongst ourselves , take the fight to the antis.
There reason apparently for Sunday the 19th is bear season so archery closes Friday then bear is Saturday through Tuesday. I agree they just need to open all Sundays to hunting here in PA!
I really like the direction of the podcast. With Dr. Matt Rinella and Skip Sligh, there are alot of common talking points and view points that are shared. Bringing back the sport to its purist form really gets my attention. I understand the outdoor industry must continue to make money to continue to innovate, but the industries direct influence on laws and land sales is ruining it for the common man's hunting experience. Great job guys.
To me a bigger problem is that rifle season is peak rut. I think thats more of an issue than crossbows. I hunt in KY and I swear that is the biggest issue. That and the fact they do not allow motorized vehicles (4 wheelers) on public road access points. These are mountains out here that we are hunting. I am sorry but for the average hunter expecting them to hike 3-5 miles in hill country is expecting to much. I do it all the time but I am 32 and in great shape. This access issue for the Daniel in particular is killing the sport.
SPOT ON!!!!! Guns out of the rut is the #1 issue by far and away!!!!! Why OH, IA & KS still have the best balanced age structure. I would say the archery pressure is getting worse in every state & archery hunters (along with guns or any weapon) are finding access harder each year. In iowa- u can’t hardly get archery permission. It’s really hard. U add crossbows to this season & it’ll get infinitely worse. But YES!!!! MO, IN, MI, MN, WI, NE, etc - GET YOUR GUNS MOVED BACK 14 DAYS!!!! Game changer!!!!
@@Iowa_Whitetail I could even compromise 2 rifle seasons. Give them 10 days late October through early November and then 1 weekend around the 22nd
It’s still a type of archery, however I don’t think crossbow kills should be counted the same in regards to record bucks. They should have their own class. A solution may be to only allow crossbows for half of the archery season.
Crossbows should have 1 week maybe 2. It's not archery at all
@@mikeguy9668same could be said about compound bows
@@madsenmotorsports9950not even close. Compounds are still archery and are actually harder to master than trad bows. Crossbows are just arrow rifles that require 0 skill or practice
@@mikeguy9668 lol compounds are easy way easier than a recurve. Lol I can tell you have never shot a recurve lol
In what aspect is it a type of archery?????? You mean it’s a type of gun
It’s crazy how people say crossbows are killing this and that. In all reality they have been around for nearly the same amount of time. It hasn’t destroyed anything, I agree yes it sucks when your hunting a big buck and the guy with crossbow gets him because you passed the other night @30 yds Who cares, if anything there will be a lot more deer shot with precision and more deer being recovered. I hunt by all means blow gun,recurve, longbow, compound,crossbow, black powder, shotgun, and rifle. You have choices pick your poison. I enjoy hearing more of a hunters successfully hunting and recovering. As long as it is harvested legally, have peace with all work together. Good luck to all you hunters out there, may you shoot straight and hit your mark. Be sure to put in your practice daily, comfort and knowing your weapon is extremely important. A lot of people say they know then don’t pick up their bow until the first day of the season. Go get your deer, there are plenty out there.
Fellow Canuck here,I agree, 100%
One of the first things that some jump on is the whole wrongheaded crossbow argument. Once again, after more than 30 years of study, there is no evidence that crossbow hunters are so much more successful than vertical bow hunters. State after state have found the same things. Crossbows have caused no detrimental effect on the deer. State game agencies and commissions in many different states have stopped recording kill rates between vertical bows and crossbows because time after time the same results were found. A state game commission or department can improperly manage things, but many other factors come into play. How long is the season? When is the season? What are hunter numbers? And many other factors play far bigger roles than crossbows ever will.
Where are these studies at? Would love to see them
@HUNTRPOD yes they are abalible. You can obtain this data from any of the state conservation agencies which allow the full inclusion of crossbows which is now more than have the states in the country. In fact, for the states that allow crossbows for all hunters in all seasons which today totals 28, 60-70% of all deer taken in the archery are taken with crossbow. The facts you say you wish to obtain are available from multiple sources.
Great podcast. I was born in Iowa and parents move us away to Georgia for most of my life. In the last year I was finally able to move back and buy a small 20 acre farm. In just the one year of being back here I see so many hunting rules that I'm like why is this in place. Like the one comment made about using dogs to run deer. It's honestly being done in iowa with people instead of dogs, with man drives during shotgun season. People come across posted fencing , kill anything that runs out and act dumb when confronted. My self I think man drives should come to a end. We may as well be using dog....same same. Now, to make man drives worse, it's being done with straight wall ar rifles, 10 round magazines, and 10 guys with no care where their bullets are going. So, a group like this to look into better rules and laws would be great
Thank “the hunting public” for that dumb shit
Skip is the man!
Bro most working hunters with family are lucky to get one weekend a year to hunt
Michigan would be one of the greatest states if everyone would get on the same level.
Agree!!!!!! All MI would need to do is this…. Get 51% of hunters to agree (something needs to change. It can’t continue like this) and…. THAT CHANGE….. moving gun season back a measly 14 days!!!!! Which is maybe a temperature difference of about 1 to 1.5 degrees on average!!!
Don't get it twisted, 2B, in Pennsylvania, is like Kansas
I think New York is getting better in age structure, I could be wrong, but I’ve been seeing a lot more mature deer than growing up
I bet you’re right!!!! Younger generation that actually is passing some 1.5’s vs 25 years ago that didn’t happen. The old schoolers would never pass a little dinker back then. & more guys probably have locked some ground up. I suspect NY is similar to MI in those changes. Glad to hear it’s improving!!!!
1:41:03 no one said the average hunter was smart. In fact, theyre not smarter than the average consumer of any product. We’re told constantly in the hunting community that the only states with good deer hunting are iowa, kansas, Missouri, maybe a couple other states (ohio, etc). While in reality, sure their may be great hunting in those states, most hunters are simply bad hunters though, and the hunting in their home state is fine, they just cant find the good hunting in their state. So they go to where their told good hunting exists
I think the money should be spent on quality of land not just quantity cause theirs plenty of land that the state can buy that sucks so what they should be doing is the crp funds, food plots, leaving corn like places that the Midwest do that they don’t in the northeast
Hunt with whatever turns you on, but I don’t buy majority means your right.
Such a great and interesting podcast. Love what you are all doing to make hunting great again. 5 years ago we started a Pheasants Forever in upstate NY where 100% of our money raised stays right here in the area. What a difference it has made compared to all the other well known organizations I have been a part of. Love seeing hard working people making the difference. Keep inspiring us all🦌
In TN I can buy a native tag because I was born there. I like that rarely take advantage of that just for crowded public. There are guys that drive 4 hrs just to hunt that Public everyweekend just to have a place to go.
Crossbows aren’t even what we have to worry about. It’s these new air bows coming out. The fastest crossbows on the market are shooting slightly over 500 fps. Yet here we are with air bows, just coming out and already shooting over 600 fps. In a some states it is already legal with usually a free permit to use during archery season. If you are worried about crossbow hunters shooting at a median fps slightly higher than compound. Just wait until these “air bows” become more prevalent, and advanced.
Agree!!!!! Both owned by the same company & both get that company to hire lobbyists to buy off states to get their products in. RAVIN CROSSBOWS is owned by Velocity, Inc. They own Benjamin Air bows…. All same strategy - lobby to pimp states out so they get wealthier. That company & their business tactics are bottom of the barrel greed & disgust!!!!!
Same shit! They both 500fps rifles with a scope !
Cut compound season down to 2 weeks same with crossbow. Only let longbows and recurves have half a year to hunt
First, thanks for reminding me to buy my Iowa preference point. Second, if you are against something you shouldn’t start doing it just bc it’s legal. Third, great pod bois’!
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I don't know if people quit hunting but when they banned baiting in Michigan and where I hunt(on public)I rarely see anybody in the area and I see a lot less deer but more quality deer.
I do have to disagree this coming from The bluest state of them all unfortunately😂 Washington State I like the only other one that has has trumped is maybe California😅 but they still allow hunting on Sundays in my state. Your podcast was the first time I ever even heard of this to be a hundred percent honest. I have to say that's got to be one of the craziest laws I've ever heard.
Table for 10! Lets go party lol
First time listener and found you guys pretty uneducated on MN law (basically a 2 week gun season then muzzy season), culture (B&C dimished due to brown it’s down mentality among super popular gun hunters and wolves esp St Louis County) and access (we have millions of acres of public land, access is not an issue here). Also laughable how scared some “hardcore” bow guys are of xbows and more people enjoying bow hunting. Especially while shooting the latest and greatest compounds that perform pretty similarly to xbows.
I'm down in the SE part of the part. There is very very little public land around this area. And what little there is, it's a wasteland for wildlife because of all the pressure. There's a ton of ag land that doesn't hold a lot of deer or any wildlife for that matter. So decent hunting grounds is extremely hard to find. It's a constant battle for decent places to hunt. Access to hunting land is definetely the biggest barrier hunters have in this part of the state.
The SE part of the state does lack in public land relative to the rest of the state, but there is still some and plenty within an hour or two drive. I live in the cities and there’s a lot more public land and deer than there is hunting pressure imo.
Crossbows have their place. They are good for the youth , elderly , handicapped and the brand new hunters no doubt. I also see them being good in two ways. One would be there are way to many deer let’s thin them out and especially in these urban hunts where you can put a deer down pretty quick with one. The other is very limited hunting area where your only allowed to kill up to 3 animals per season ( a buck and a couple does) . Once you killed all your allotted deer your done less pressure on the rest of the animals.I think they are a slippery slope when you have a very balanced herd or a struggling herd it wouldn’t take long to effect the herd. To me a crossbow should not be in the early season and rut hunts when the deer are vulnerable. They are perfect in during the lulls and late seasons. I’m honestly so tired of the Ohio bashing of how bad it is. It’s a bow hunters paradise your only allowed one buck for the season and very limited gun seasons. Their are a lot of big bucks being killed there. You have places in Ohio your only allowed a buck and a doe per person in certain counties. To me you guys crying about corn piles is ridiculous if you want to beat corn piles have better food. Deer will always go to better food.
I heard on one of the hunting shows recently that in the midwest states, 20% of the bucks killed are on public land. 80% are killed on private land. Now you know why the number of hunters is decreasing every year. If you have money then you can buy or lease deer hunting land. If not than you hunt crowded public land and you have to be darn lucky to kill a big buck.
People in NY social circle are buying land in multiple Midwestern states for access. They don't want to lease ir; just buy it outright. For perspective deer hunting only leases in some areas of my state are approaching 100 dollars per acre. 50 has become common. We have 1.25 million deer and we can kill 10 does. Yet the numbers are still staying elevated. Public hunts are hilarious, though. One draw hunt let 1200 hunters hunt 12000 acres... High-spending non residents put money into the system, without consuming many tax dollars.
1:05:09 they have mentioned before that PA has a law that caps the amount if money the game commission can try to spend on new land purchases. And that cap per acre is either $400 or $600 per acre. Thats all the pa game commission is allowed to spend by law when it trys to buy new land for hunters. That law needs changed.
I totally agree with you, I live in Berks County. I know the land is over priced, everyone here thinks their property is gold.
Sounds like it's time to march on the Ravin factory, take our sacred hunting back
IMHO…. Velocity, Inc is one of the dirtiest rotten outdoor companies to ever exist!!! That company should be boycotted & companies like them deserve to go out of business!!! So many good ethical companies out there with a few toxic apples in the mix. Pay attention people!! Velocity owns: Ravin, Benjamin air guns, crossman, etc etc.
The 19th was specifically for bear our 3 Sundays are not just for deer when they started giving us those 3 Sundays they took away 1 day of the bear rifle season to replace it with a Sunday
I had to switch to a crossbow after being injured in Afghanistan. Personally I hate it. It takes a lot of practice to get good at actually hitting a deer. They are way louder than my old slow but true PSE. My first few tries ended up with deer ducking the bolt. I guess I could spend 1,500 bucks for a quieter one but I don’t think so. I don’t enjoy shooting it, it takes forever between shots when practicing. I could send 4 or 5 arrows down range versus 1 bolt. If they can ever fix my shoulder I will be back to the vertical. I was much better with it, slow, quiet but effective.
2:04:29 the only part id disagree with here, is the dcnr doesnt really manage the state forest land for animal habitat, it just enough cuts everywhere that a lot of good habitat exists on state forest land across the state. Some of which is so many thousand square acres that its barely hunted
So if a crossbows basically a gun what would happen if you could just gun hunt all archery season. They basically the same right both shoot up to about 600 yards comfortably correct?
You basically gun hunt the entire season with a xbow and a strait wall and a rifle it’s pathetic
Where was minnesota bowhunters inc. When they snuck that in
Why not let crossbows have their own season. After traditional archery starts and lasts after gun finishes (till end of year?)?
What mechanic makes 30k??? I love how this dude just figures out how laws are passed. This is how all laws are passed. Honestly I worked in capital In MI Those phone matter. My job was to track calls And rank how pissed people are. It helps
IMO You cant have more hunters and access to giant bucks without serious restrictions on access. Either through private land, limited tags or both. I think any solution needs to acknowledge that as fact. Habitat improvement can help but it doesn't let a million PA hunters all have that awesome quality experience. We have too much private land and the state "manages" the deer with the permission of the landowners. Our hunting is better than it ever was in my lifetime because the private landowners that lock up land and you we have a few hundred thousand fewer hunters than we did 25 or 30 years ago. I just don't see a solution without pushing some hunters out or allowing "quality" to go down. The PGC cares too much about "opportunity" - I think that is a combination of their desire to keep a political base of active hunters and annual income. It dose not address "quality" beyond those 2 1/2 year old's. Also politics has always held the interest of special interests and the politicians themselves higher than the interests of the ordinary residents. Glad to see people are realizing that :)
Make deer hunting great again….
Nebraska has a 9 day rifle season in the heart of the rut. Unlimited archery tags, Xbow included. OTC non resident rifle permits. Baiting allowed but you have to be 200 yards away. And a late January rifle season. It’s hands down the worse run Game and Parks commission.
I have heard above so many times - I 100% agree with you!!!! Literally hundreds of serious NE hunters said exactly what u did. Place could be so good!!!!!!
Is there a group here yet lobbying for change? Would love to get more info.
Baiting a not allowed. If you get caught you can’t hunt within 200 yards and neither can anyone else. So when you go out and do it on public land then have people sit by bait they had no clue was there then they get in trouble. Baitings the lamest thing ever. All the private landers will bait the deer away from public lands
Louisiana is the worst managed state
@@roosterdope6778so what you’re saying is baiting is allowed for rifle hunters.
This is sad to see. Its gotten similar put west with elk. Everyone goes west OTC and its ruined with predation and too many non-res and private holdings. Same thing
Only recurve bows should count as the entire archery season. Compounds shouldn’t get as long as they do crossbows shouldn’t get as long as they do
They also say they want everyone to have access to quality hunting land, but then the talk about owning multiple properties and wanting to acquire more! Isn't one property enough?Commical
What are they (the state) spending all of our revenue from license on?
1:37:19 the mountains of nothern Pa have tons of public land, huge bodied deer, a great age structure, and dropping numbers of hunters. yet people tell me all the time Pa isnt worth hunting. Theyre wrong, but people believe, including these two
No rain then a frost no bugs Rain equals mud equals bugs....ehd and dead deer. Rain is the problem. No rain early frost no ehd
In Pennsylvania that Sunday that you don’t think is valuable is opening weekend of bear rifle season
To be honest completely blanked it was Bear season. I’m still used to Mon-Wed tradition. So it is a good Sunday
No I completely understand I do not personally bear hunt or am used to the new seasons they started but when I heard you talk about that I had to actually go back and double check myself to see if maybe that was when bear firearms season started also I didn’t mean to come off as harsh I just typed it quick while I was at work listening to your podcast I loved the debates and listening to them while I’m working keep up the great job
IDk what dude is talking about Wisconsin and Illinois is ruined what ? Hunting is the best its been in 20 years awesome deer herds Giants everywhere happy hunters lots of opportunities every where just gotta do the work. If your going to Kill a whitetail deer you need to earn it. Its Not Supposed To Be Easy!
Maybe in pockets. I’ve been all over WI & IL…. I quit hunting both those states. I’m literally surrounded by Wisconsin guys around multiple iowa farms. They are the #1 NR land owner in my area by a long shot. I’ve hunted Fulton, Schuyler, Jo Daviess, peoria, etc counties in IL…. There’s a few good pockets but the vast majority of tracts are struggling. The average farm has a tough time not getting their best 2.5 & 3.5’s shot. & outfitting is out of hand in both states. Good pockets- yes. Degraded greatly on the average farms- absolutely IMO & in my experiences.
@@Iowa_WhitetailBasically Stay Out My state these are my deer not yours and Stay Away from outfitters LOL
@@Iowa_Whitetail you should find the good pockets to hunt.
I’d rather EVERYONE has good opportunities across all states & land. It’s a state owned resource that’s shared by all BTW- why it shouldn’t be exploited by special interests. The masses flee the broken states. Iowa can’t take them all on. I love my neighbors but we can’t take any more on. The residents are losing access left & right. The main reason they are losing access is guys locking land up that fled degraded areas to buy in POCKETS of great management. BOTTOM LINE: let’s make the whole state of WI & IL considerably better than it is today. So folks don’t have to fight over the tiny amount of high quality Pockets that exist. EVERYONE benefits from improving age structure across a whole state!!!
I get it man nobody likes it when Jonny shoots alot rolls up with out of state plates leasing the neighbors especially when Jonny shoots a crossbow over corn piles, but when Jonny shows up with a check to buy the farm you’re saying thats just as bad which is what you did at one time. So just say it man no one will be mad at you its Ok ( Don’t Come To Iowa !)
I wish we could vote on it in Michigan to get rid of it
Coming too Iowa in a truck hopefully soon. As a RESIDENT
Welcome!!!! Great place to live!!! You won’t regret it!! Welcome and congrats on the move. Now help us keep iowa great!!! 😜🥳👊💪
@@Iowa_Whitetail ty guys I owned there before and will again soon. I'm into the Land management side more than the killing part and I should be in zone 5 or 6.
I think here in pa, the reason gun season has been so dead, is because more people are looking for that opportunity to hunt the rut and watch the chase. Majority of all hunting shows are archery related. Teaching a kid today to shoot a compound bow is a lot different then when we were younger. My dad said if you can pull it back, you can take it. So at 14 years old, i was finally able to draw back 70lb and after that I taught myself how to archery hunt. I didn’t have KZhead or instasuck or whatever else. Kids today wanna watch KZhead, then hunt the rut, with a crossgun, because all they need to do is site it in and buy camo, now they’re an archery hunter. We have few shows that share the tradition that we grew up with. 10 yrs old and I was walking jungle thickets for my pap, my dad, my uncle etc. I wouldn’t send a 10 yr old out to get the mail today lol.
Right there with you man. Killed my first at 14 with a compound but put many miles on these legs as a kid learning and observing
Best way to solve Chris’s problem with to many hunters and crossbows is to do away with non resident hunters. If you don’t live in the state or own land in a state you cant hunt in that state. Problem solved. Residents hunt with what you want.
But he thinks that before compound bows came into existence those that switched from recurve and longbows to compounds when they came on the market it was the same argument that compound bows weren’t true archery in the past but because of the release and let off you either embrace new technology or you stick to primitive techniques and nothing in between
As someone who has to use a crossbow due to physical limitations I think crossbows should only be legal for able bodied people 15 and under 65 and older! I WISH I could use a upright bow! It’s a lazy cop out for physically capable people to go with a crossbow over honing there skills with vertical bows.
@midmissourimountainman2696so why’d he stop using the xbow? Didn’t want to shoot 60 yards or under
Not enough hunters in most states to take enough deer to dent the deer population to where the DNR wants it so the state will do what they think it will take to get the hunters out and reduce the deer populations and a lot of hunters don’t take their limit or shoot does that are overpopulated
Outfitters and outa staters screwed illinois age structure bad. The 90's and early 2000's the outa staters flooded our area, our genetics are awesome so they think 150" deer are all old. So many 2 and 3 year olds have been shot and claimed as old deer just cus their big deer. We still have areas good where our families insulated themselves in the 90's cuz they saw it comin. These Michigan guys down the road kill 120" deer all the time. I appreciate guys like you who care about age structure.
Crazy to think but you are right, that was destructive to Illinois
Good frost this morning near central Illinois.
where can i see a picture of that buck in monessen ? lol
This podcast made me a little confused on what y’all think. I thought we wanted people to buy land to manage for bigger bucks, less hunters, and people not getting access because it’s less intrusion. This podcast went back and forth with the guest. No hate, just confusion.
I watch a ton of podcast deer hunters and I say this to all, come to Harlan Ky and try public land hunting in these steep, rugged mountains with zero agriculture 99 percent mountains. There’s almost zero pressure so killing a mature buck should be easy! Come give it a try please!!!
Haha it’s not easy, I love eastern KY. My second home, but it’s TOUGH hunting
As a Minnesotan I think it’s cheating. They essentially have rifles and get to hunt a 3 month season, just not right.
110% agree with you!
As a fellow Minnesotan, I disagree 100%. Crossbows are archery. I don't think just because a crossbow can reach out and poke a deer further than with a compound bow yet should be excluded from your special club. I can't reliably shoot a bow because of shoulder problems, and the process to get a special permit was stupid. Now I can hunt with everyone else since my wife has issues with having guns in the house. You have to pick your battles, and that's not one with fighting.
If 70% of hunters want to shoot a crossbow then that is the mjority. You dont want average hunters making those decisions. There arent more tags because there are now crossbows so it doesnt matter. Everyone wants to have the woods to themselves, thats it. Theres no other argument. You guys buy land because you want to manage it and create a better experience for yourself, not because there isn't access to ground. The last thing i want is govermenet buying up more land so i habe to hunt next to elmer fud who doesnt understand safety or hunting etiquette.
Guys buying/leasing up land are not the problem. I'm sure a lot of them would prefer to be able to use that $ for other things, they are simply reacting to terrible regulatory decisions.
Crossbows and compounds should be in the same category and only allowed half of the real archery season which is Tradbows. Don't look down your nose at crossbow hunters when you use a mechanical device yourself.
I'd like to point out that crossbows would probably never been legalized IF ... the compound bow industry hadn't lobbied so hard to make mechanical releases legal.
Oh that’s a great point
Change your rules to maine’s rules 1 deer a season from either archery or gun season combined. Unless in an expanded archery zone. You can buy extra for tags in such zones. Expanded archery areas, are for traditional archery equipment or compound bows only. To complain about crossbows is just childish. That’s just like the traditional bowhunter complaining about the compound bowhunter. There has always been a knucklehead out there that does something stupid that reflects on everyone. It just about doing right by all, be safe on public hunting and respectful. To be respectful of the non hunter as well as the hunter alike. Will create a better hunter nonhunter relationship. A major thing such as taking your gut pile out with you! (It’s a major one) I’ve seen it first hand people leaving gut piles and the landowners dogs being attacked ,when they are taking a walk or in their backyards. By simply removing a gut pile will already give a better appearance. Respect the land and what others have to see.
Compound bows and archery shouldn’t be in the same category if you are going to say that about crossbows. I can pick up a compound after a year of not shooting and get some consistent groupings. Can’t pickup a recurve after not touching it for a year and get good groupings. Recurve is real archery. Sounds exactly like when compounds came out. Then people got over it and adapted. At the end of the day you still have to get a deer in close with a crossbow. You aren’t shooting 70 yards with a crossbow.
First I don’t disagree that trad hunters felt the same way when compounds were introduced. But even though it’s easier than Trad, it’s much greater skill than a x bow
@@HUNTRPOD I don’t think so. Compounds are way easier than traditional. The way I see it. You still gotta get the deer on the ground no matter what you use. A crossbow isn’t a guarantee either. You aren’t shooting 100 yards with a crossbow. And you still have to get it dialed in just like anything else. I have a recurve, compound and a crossbow and they all have strengths and weaknesses. I am most consistent with a compound. Idk if it’s just the most comfortable for me or what but I feel way better shooting my compound than even a gun. I’m way more steady.
You can hunt crossbow in the state of Indiana but most archery purest don't