Did GM just S#%! on FORD'S 30 Year Investment in Overhead Cam Engines?! | C8 Z06 & LT6 Breakdown!
The C8 Z06 is finally here and we'd be lying if we said haven't been watching and waiting on it's arrival. GM is stepping into the realm of Overhead Cam engines with the LT6 and they are truly swinging for the fences! Watch as we breakdown the 2023 Corvette Z06's 5.5 Liter flat plane crank engine with the Shelby GT350's 5.2 liter Voodoo engine to see if they hit a home run!
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Great video, I love when intelligence surpasses brand bias. As an LS guy, the coyote excited me in 2011 because I knew it was good which makes the general push harder, when the hellcats came out I was excited again because that pushes Ford and the general to push harder and we get stuff like this LT6, now this engine will continue to push the other 2 and we all keep winning !
Electric is next..... well its already here but Im gonna say were nearing the end of the high HP gas engines.... I hope im wrong though!
@@JohnnyAnderson1 youre right but there s still hope. There will be special programs within automaker companies to keep these nice engines alive for a while im sure
@@JohnnyAnderson1 came here to say that and I hope they can be kept alive as well!
I'm a GM guy since a small child and I used to regularly talk shit on Mustang's.....I stopped that talk when the new 5.0 came out. These new mustang's are fast!!
@@JohnnyAnderson1 Its not going to turn over as fast as people think. It's not economically possible right now. Lithium ion battery mining is worse for the environment then gas engine's. Reliability is becoming a much worse problem then they expected. It won't be a jump to electric cars. We will jump to electric drones that we can't control. Electric bikes and personal drones will replace car's.
I think its specifically "the most powerful naturally aspirated v8 ever sold in a car". Chevy also unveiled the 1004hp naturally aspirated zz632 v8 crate engine. However it's 10.35 liters, so it'll take some engineering to swap it into a miata 🥲
Not really. Move the seats/interior to the engine bay. Put the engine where the seats and trunk used to be. A mid/rear engine miata is a win/win
@@tklkw If it only was that easy to design a car that won't implode on itself
For when you want to fly through the Pearly Gates backwards and on fire.
But we are talking about a race car tho
@@tklkw so crazy that it might just work
"Who gets these cars just to drive around" As a Corvette owner, I can confidently say 95% of Corvette owners. haha
I bought a C4 just to drive around and daily to work every few weeks and my wife got a C4 to go to the grocery store and classes. Just drive them around and enjoy them!
I think you're correct. I read that the average age of Corvette buyers is 54 YO. Like they're gonna hammer on this car.
@@roadtoad7704 we do run them, just not every time the light turns green...
@@roadtoad7704 I have a family friend that's a Corvette owner (like a lot of corvettes idk how many but it's at least 2 dozen some not restored yet) who's almost 70. He gives it some go once in a while but he just likes driving so it is fairly accurate. They like to drive but it's not about the pure acceleration it's often about taking the curvy roads and long way home.
I bought my C5 in 2000, I still have it. There is 160,000 miles on it now and the motor has never been apart. Still passes SMOG tests and still gets 30 mpg on the freeway. All I do is "drive around" in it, best car I ever owned.
The new Z06 seems to be designed for one thing and one thing only, to compete against the European car manufactures in GT racing. The GT 350 on the other hand is designed to compete with the Camaro and Challenger.
yep. When he said about taking a gt 350 and putting $$$$ into because its sticker is only $59k compared to the z06 , i think the gt350 shouldn't try to step that high. You have the c8 base corvette with only 495hp running in the 2.7-2.9 0-60 and a 10.97-11.1 quarter. Its also ran the Nürburgring at 7:29 which was like 3-4 seconds faster than a gt350. The z06 will be a road course monster , which it was designed for and pull like a freight train. Gt 350, as you said should be worried about its rivals from the last 50 years, the camaro , challenger , charger etc .
@@redtesta so what you are saying is, Ford needs to bring back another GT40 clone.
Chevy stop making cars to compete with mustang in 2015..the 6th gens are competing with Porsche,lambo. Etc...the newer camaros were made for road courses...not straight lines..although you can build them for that too..
The ford engine was built wrong in the first place and there is no room for improvement the Chevy is built to be made bigger. i was a Ford guy until they replaced the V* with a European based POS that is to small to be a good street engine! Chevy is doing it right1
@@mylanmiller9656 made from scratch based off their LM car.
Cool video, I own a 1990 ZR-1, GM insisted on 4.4 inch bore spacing on the LT5 when it was in development. Lotus was owned by GM during this period and Mercury Marine was tapped to machine and hand build these engines. If there ever was a machine capable of breaking the world endurance records set by the 1990 ZR-1, this Z06 may be the machine. I'm a GM guy, but I respect Ford and Dodge as each has some badass machines. As a child of the 70s and 80s, I remember the days when performance died. It's so cool to see what's coming out of Detroit, great days for performance. 👍👍🏁🏁
Bad ass car bro. Funny thing about that car which I absolutely love and have been in love with since I found out about it in about 2000, is the fact that not many people, including myself for awhile there were absolutely left in the dark and had no clue this car even existed. This car was way ahead of its time! A true pioneer from Chevrolet. I’m an 80s baby so was born after all the good cars right into an era of not the best cars. My dad builds tri five Chevys and tells me a lot about the horsepower wars back then and how they’re back. Keep that car safe stay under 200 mph it’s a rare gem now!
90-95 ZR-1 was the only Corvette I had any interest in before the C8. It was just boring to me, capable, but just nothing new. You should put up some KZhead content, some sound and driving. Visually there's really not much to a walkaround. Wheels and widebody.
Not to mention the lt5 dohc motor from gm was before ford's mod motors came out...
@@sprsprtrudy IIRC they were trying to base a DOHC engine on a 350 OHV/pushrod block, to save money on a total redesign, AND trucks need the Tq down low. 2 large valves are better for that than up high with 4 smaller valves. Pull away tq at a traffic light under load. I don't know how well a single cam down the middle can handle that kind of duty, plus pushrods for 32, then high RPMs for performance. It's just too much from 2 conflicting designs to squeeze under one hood. The truck line would be fine but the performance side would be a reliability nightmare. I think the Ford's came out in 91 in the Panther cars first. Those 2v's are great motors.
@@pgtmr2713 well you're right about 91 I forgot they put them in land yachts first... The rest of that is just rabble...
I have no idea what he was talking about but he's made me want a Z06 a lot more than I ever did
lol
I had no clue either. But then he wouldnt have a clue as to what I do
I know exactly what he is talking about. I will just say the new gm engine would eat fords ohc engines for breakfast. The shorter stroke allows for more rpm the larger bore will hurt the higher rpms. If you balance the 2 out between cylinder bore size and stroke you won't loose anything in rpms. The way those images are seen up is the way should have been from the start. I could go on and on about this new engine.
This thing is going to sound glorious. That's all that matters
At $90k you could buy a better car. Tesla.
I like your KZhead "set" setup. It's a REAL desk setup not a staged one many KZheadrs have. I think Corvette was diverged to compete with Ferrari, Lambo and McLauren with similar maintenance cost and usage expectations. Camaros being left to compete with Mustangs and other muscle cars. And Yes, I'm expecting to pay insane markup for one. But it's still cheaper than Lambo/Ferrari but with a hardtop for track requirement.
That’s always been what the corvette was for. it’s the affordable super car
"Camaros being left to compete with mustangs..." Ummm, isn't the Camaro being discontinued... Again?
Appart from that shitty old worn chair 😂
I love that these engines are putting pressure on the German manufacturers.
it’s good for everyone when Germany is pressured
Me too and I'm German.
@@Warrior6350 Me three and I’m Martian. We have the most advanced tech.
@@kex78 this, but unironically
Druck, hahaha. Guter witz, weil luftpumpen. 😐
I’m an import guy but very excited about this LT6 and the C8 Z06. So much respect for you for showing excitement for this engine even though you’re a Ford guy/channel. Subbed.
Same 💯
HondaGang
I remember when Ford stated that the Transfer case (PTU) oil was good for the life of the car on early Ecoboost SHOs. They even doubled down on the claim by casting the case without a drain plug! People cracked into them 4 years later to find the oil had turned into black pine tar sludge the consistency of cake frosting. A lot of folks burned up PTU's as a result.
Car companies lie to get you back into the dealership so they can make more money. Even Japanese are doing it now.
Right, when the manufacturer states no maintenance required, and it fails before the engine and transaxle that require regular maintenance, it should be on the OEM.
sure you can they only expect the car to last for 4 years. That's why I drive a 2001 Jeep Cherokee and 03 Silverado
@@35RSkyline 96 bronco 5speed. 06 4 runner V8.
Even car batteries, 2 year old battery in my brothers new car went to shit. Just pulled a 10 year old battery out of our other car. Everything is a joke now.
I know there are many that have trouble admitted it but GM has the knowledge and resources to design and build benchmark engines. Forget about all the other screw ups and corporate bs for a minute. There is NO other engine that comes close to the small block no matter what category you pick. Volume, adaptability, cost, hp, durability, mass production, etc, etc. Yes, we can argue about a few mistakes but overall no oil-burning, valve ticking Ford will ever come close. Yes the Coyote is a good motor but we picking #1 here, not 2nd or 3rd place.
GM is a case of making something "good enough" and then making the hell out of it, cramming it into practically anything a V8 can fit in where it's practical to do so. Ford has a somewhat more focused, more techy approach to engines and both approaches have their tradeoffs. If you want to get the absolute most out of 5 liters and are not intimidated by DOHC and independent VVT the the Coyote is your engine. If you can handle a bit less power per cube but still great power, esp per dollar, then the LS/LT engines are for you. As for adaptability, given there wide array of aftermarket bellhousing available you can stick a coyote anywhere you can stick an LS so long as there is 30 inches of clearance, which is about the same as a Big Block Chevy with tall valve covers. It would have to be a really small car to do an engine swap on before I'd count the Coyote out due to it's size.
Ford hasn't matched the SB GM engines and way behind LT/LS platforms!...Ford has always been unreliable and difficult to work on!
@@nathanielbolden5053 Lol, obvious troll is obvious.
@@177SCmaro yeap
the SBC was not a good engine. plenty of fords slaughter it. what chevy has always been good at is manipulating the rule books for a competitive advantage.
That Z06 is one amazing engine, but I'm surprised you didn't mention the titanium rods and flat plain designed crankshaft that's really light because of much much smaller counter balances. Another factor that's high-tech is its high compression ratio that runs on pump gas and tuned intake runners that take advantage of the different firing order to get the most out of intake air pulses. This is the best of the best racing technology all combined into one, that's why it cost so much.
He can’t talk about the flat plane because he can’t compare that to the coyote. I’m assuming you mean titanium PUSH rods, which again the coyote doesn’t have, so no comparison possible.
@@brownwhale5518 The comparison was between the 5.2L Voodoo which is a flat plane crank, the new LT6 has titanium connecting rods neither engine has pushrods.
@@brownwhale5518 Lower crankshaft weight (Flat plane design) and connecting rod weight (titanium rods) greatly reduces rotating mass which means it will REV very quickly and more power to the rear wheels, it also helps with max rpm reliability. The relative short stroke also helps high RPM because it means lower piston speeds as compared to longer stroke engines.
titanium connecting rods?! holy cow. shorter stroke, lighter crank... all that adds up to less reciprocating weight- which means much higher revs, faster throttle response- now you're entering ferrari territory. you just left ford ground zero and launched into orbit! all the rules change. it's more than just compression, cylinder volume, etc.... you're changing the balance & strength of the engine. wasted HP regained... the list goes on.
Can you imagine it with free valve tech omg holy shit good
The LT6 crankcase scavenging design is straight F1 architecture
the engine has the same BMEP as the Cosworth in the Valkyrie .. that's insane. only difference is the 6.5L v12 spins to 11,400 rpm!
Do you mind explaining that acronym?
@@nvrdwn3140 Brake Mean Effective Pressure (BMEP) is essentially the average pressure forcing the pistons inside your engine down that provides the measured torque output. BMEP is a function of temperature of the gases in the cylinder. To increase the temperature you need to burn more fuel, thus making more heat. Or another way is to make better use of the existing fuel. Torque is a function of BMEP and displacement only.
@@twistedneck yeah but that vehicle is three and a half million dollars. I'm sure if people were willing to pay half that much for a Corvette GM could build it but why do it you're trying to keep it affordable
@@twistedneck , you should drop a link to your source and give EE some credit: kzhead.info/sun/ZNVvoJmuo3ONeKs/bejne.html&ab_channel=EngineeringExplained
I think everyone is getting way ahead of themselves. Just wait until you see it. Also it’s safe to say we can’t compare corvette to mustang. Camaro, Mustang, challenger. Vette is swinging at the GT and all of the European supercars. It’s silly to compare these 2 cars
He's really not comparing the cars, just the engines. Also he basically said that the mustang is more for the daily driver and that the corvette was more of an all out race type car/engine.
Vette has never concerned itself with any American sportscar. They reached limit of front/mid engine... and went mid... like it was always meant to be... camaro is quicker than a GT.. lmfao... GT is dope tho
Not when a gt500 costs more. Dollar for dollar this is where they decided to place themselves
True
Yeah, but he's comparing the engine technology. Not the whole vehicle. However Ford has always tried to punch up to the Vette with the mustang when they have no reason or funding to roll out another gt40.
I'm 71 and had 3 Vette's back in the day. This new C8 Z06 has become my new dream car. Great engineering craftsmanship, style and elegance from top to bottom, all in one package and for a reasonable price. Tadge Juechter and his team continue to amaze us.
Zeal whatever Corvette type of new motor I want to see him race the demon solid and then Ford going to step in and going to dominate that I know they are not at least forward already got it in the most expensive car and that's the GT a grand Lamon champion a Corvette price tag don't match up with that Ford GT Grand Lamont Champion the one that look like the Ferrari they just giving Chevy a chance to famous for a minute
Ford could put Godzilla on them if they want to and that's that I ain't going to speaker the name of the motor it's just called Godzilla it'll be a done deal and what they need to do with the Godzilla motor is go ahead on make it wire it's do it under see Corvette and stole that Lamborghini Ferrari ideal are you all stay paid Ferrari to make that motor for them they love stealing
Now I know the reason why they did that because they try they jealous of that car that Ford made long years ago 1964 and got the new GT Grand lamond Champion General Motors is showing jealousy because they tried to put Corvette up against it this car had left the Corvette so far behind a Chevy fans when the really like that and when they went to see that they show nothing was upset Ford can make take a six cylinder and beat that they had a big block six cylinder if
The price difference between the Z06 and GT350 goes much deeper than the engine. GT350 at its core is a modified mustang, which can be $30k. A Z06 is based on a mid engined corvette. You didn't mention the chassis differences at all
Lol the z06 is literally a modified 50k sports car 😂😂
@@chrismagic3110 and u still cant afford it lol
@@alpha-cf2oi but I can afford yo momma for 3 hours.. 30 bucks is her rate 👍
@@chrismagic3110 The Z06 is literally a luxury version of the C8.R endurance racer. The engine is nearly identical, and actually produces more power because of the lack of an intake restrictor. The C8.R has been around for two years now, you cannot make the argument that the Z06 is an upscaled version of the base C8 at this point, there's just too many connections between the C8.R and the Z06.
The gt350 shares only the body and interior with a "30k" mustang. Everything else is completely different.
When going over the valvetrain, you seem to have lapsed back into Ford's mass production zone. These are hand built. You should shift your comparisons between Mustang and Corvette to Mustang and Camaro. There is no comparison between the former now.
Agreed. Ford has no answer for the Corvette.
@@jrwstl02 it’s called Ford GT
@@FamilyCTSV It WAS.
@@martyfarrell9459 don’t forget It was never a “answer” to anything. Ford never made the GT to be better or claim to be better than any car. The fanboys did.
The Voodoo engines were hand assembled in a separate facility. And the valvetrain was unique to the engine at that time. Virtually every piece of the Voodoo was unique to that engine. So it was no more "mass produced" than this will be.
Ford has made some incredible engines but they refuse to put them in a small, light weight, aerodynamic modern chassis at an affordable price.
Ford should take advantage and bring back the Torino they could slap the 7.3 in it
They do not seem Capable of producing a high performance, high Power, engine of architecturally small proportions. One of their biggest issues in performance vehicles. Their HO3.5 (in my raptor) is like the same dimensions (or larger) & weight (or heavier) than an LS3 or LT1
@@MS-mr4zm That is because they went to multi cam design. Chevy has stuck with the single in-block cam design for years until now. Ford has produced some of the best engines ever. Look at a Ferrari 6 liter V12, They are much bigger than the a Chevy 6.2. The same can be said for Mercedes 5 to 6 liter cars.
@@fredeb67 the LT6 is dohc
@@TheStruts80 The North Star series were DOHC but for the most part, GM is a single cam in block design powerhouse. By the way, the LT6 was manufactured and designed not by GM.
In regard to driving around normally, the ZO6 will probably still feel quicker than a GT350 because the ZO6 will be geared shorter. Shorter gearing equals more wheel torque and it also gets the engine to higher revs faster. Additionally the DCT will downshift lightning fast and combined with the low rotating mass of the LT6 the driver will be able to get massive instantaneous power on demand. "Normal" driving will as a result be much more dramatic than in a GT350 and much closer to a Ferrari or 911 GT3 experience. Lifetime lash adjustment is nothing new. My 2003 Toyota Matrix had a solid mechanical valvetrain lash never went out of adjustment through 200K miles. Toyota recommended lash adjustment at around 100K miles but when it was measured at even higher mileage it remained well within tolerances. That's without a DLC layer.
With the future for all automakers (especially the Big Three) being electric, I don't see any domestic manufacturer ever surpassing the LT6 because no business case could ever be made for it. The Ford GT represents the engineering pinnacle for Ford, and they would never develop such a motor to drop in a front-engined platform when they've already done the mid-engine turbo V6 thing with the GT. Behold the internal combustion king - I'm just glad that SOMEONE built it!!
The future is not electric. They are too heavy, to expensive, and their main selling point is a lie. They don't cause less pollution or environmental impact. Just the opposite every electric vehicle built has already done more environmental harm than an gasoline powered vehicle so the cost impact ratio will never catch up until driving the vehicle for almost a decade.
@@ryotaryuu You’re partly right about e-vehicles’ pollution and environmental impact, but that doesn’t mean that that’s not where the automakers are shifting their focus and sales efforts. ICE vehicles will not be sold in some Euro countries pretty soon, for example. But battery recycling, an increase in electrical grid robustness, battery raw materials mining and waste, and other considerations are all critical components of the e-vehicle ecosystem that must be addressed in order for them to be sustainable and less harmful overall than current vehicles. And to your point, we’re not there yet.
@@bobb8361 True but just because they build them doesn't mean people will buy them either. Also currently the batteries are not recyclable, and we don't have enough natural resources on the planet to build enough batteries to replace even 1/4 or the vehicles on the road or charge them. The current electrical infrastructure can not even keep up with demand now causing rolling blackouts in California, Texas and other states. And the state of or county/economy is in the literall trash. We can't keep shelves stocked, unload cargo ships or transport goods now and we have the largest unemployment percentage in decades. How are we going to improve our infrastructure? Look up bridge codes. Over 80% of the bridges in this country are past their life expectancy and our roads are full of 5 inch deep potholes.
@@ryotaryuu the key factor in your how equation is where the electricity come from to charge them. If it's coal, and you have a large battery (110kwhr) then it may take 12 years at 12k mile/year to have the same co2 impact as a fossil fuel car. With renewable energy that cod come down to 4 to 6 years and with a smaller battery it may be in the 2 to 4 yr range. Another fundamental is that they must be driven. I have at least 2 neighbours who have EVs that are enjoying the virtue signalling, but don't drive them more than 5k miles a year. They therefore are going to be cleaner overall when compared to fossil for many, many years.
Meanwhile dodge just keeps putting hellcat engines in everything 🤣
I understand the desire to compare things but let’s say you buy a gt350 and spent 30k on the motor to hypothetically compete or compare with the zo6. The issue is you still have a must and with a compromised vehicle architect. That’s the beauty of the zo6. Not only do you get that engine you get that chassis you get the rest of the GM tech you get a fundamentally better car from a performance stand point and it’s actually special in a meaningful way because it never had to share components with a car that has to be sold in the 20k price range
Mod the z06 with supercharger or turbo and it’s game over for Porsche lambo and ferrrari, I’m curious what the muscle cars like mustang camero and charger plan on doing. Will they re engineer their engines from scratch to mimic the z06? In the coming decade
You won’t be able to really tune this motor for years even if u add turbos u ain’t going as fast as a turbo coyote or voodoo
@@squeekyclean1644 wait for the zr1 1000hp😊
@@samthefarmer52423 Yep, no one has even said they're close to breaking GM Global-B can bus architecture for tuning the C8s and GM has said they won't be giving anything away. So until then it will all be piggyback stuff, which is suboptimal at best, and not the way I'd want to tune my $100k Z06 if I could find one at that price.
@@samthefarmer52423 Right Samuel...There is an awful lot to be said for a vehicle (chassis and engine) combo that has been tested over time and is known to be tried and true! To me heck Id prefer to have an engine set-up that has been used in a lot of trucks as well as the mustang. I used to be a die hard Mustang guy but in the last several years I kind of became the guy that just loves fast good looking cars. I mean Im driving a twin turbo BMW now and I can guarantee I will own a corvette next year
GM first gave us a glimpse of this DOHC 4.2L Twin Turbo technology 2 years ago in the CT6-V Blackwing, and then for real in the Corvette C8.R 5.5L naturally aspirated V8 engine, which is the precursor to this new ZO6 mill. 👍🇺🇸
Feels good doesn't it? 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
@@CynHicks You know it does! 👍🇺🇸
This engine is not based of the blackwing V8, this engine is based off the purpose built C8.R race engine. They clarified that on launch. Also that blackwing V8 is already out of production too expensive at $30k a pop. The BW V8 had a bore spacing of 3.78 and under square. The LT6 has a 4.4 bore spacing, sames as SBC\LS\LT families and is massively over square, close the same ration as Ford and Chevy 302's, just a bit more bore and stroke.
@@Dayandcounting I said the DOHC and twin turbo technology, that's all, not the engine, and yes the Blackwing was a limited run engine, but it's likely to return in the future. I clearly stated the new ZO6 engine was a direct descendant of the C8.R engine, you really should pay closer attention to a post before contradicting it.
@@RealJohnWayne You were literally just talking about dual overhead cams and twin turbos... In that case we saw a preview of this motor in the B4 Audi S4... Since it had twin turbskis and DOHC as well... Like wtf? I totally thought you were saying it was based on that engine, which I thought could be true, because hell I don't know... Don't go around saying stupid stuff and confusing people! Lol. Also, I'd bet my left nut we never see that engine again, why would you say it's "likely to return in the future"? There's absolutely no reason to believe that's true. That blackwing was a sendoff to high displacement racey ICE's from Cadillac.. the last cars you'll see these kinds of motors in will allllll be flagships like the Corvette, and the Corvette won't have that blackwing motor in it ever. Those days are coming, the end is nigh for everything we car guys love, as much as I hate to say it...
The Z06 engine is an amazing feat of engineering. GM has almost always hit the mark with the Corvette, but this Z06 is next level. I can't wait to see the Zr1. I'm hoping for a twin turbo flat plane engine. Let's see an 800+ horsepower mid engine Vette.
Tool room pieces! The 5. 2 Vodoo and this thing!! Wanna impress me, put them in a $30000 car and make 50000 of them!!
800? it makes 675 without turbos. That would be a disappointment. Seriously think minimum of 900 and likely 1000, especially with electric AWD added on the Zora
I love mustangs too and have been a Ford guy all my life as well,… but I cannot deny, that new corvette is bad ass
Me too! and well said
I’m the opposite I was a die hard Chevy guy , until I owned a Mustang and realized how great they were compared to the Camaro, I had one Camaro and three Mustangs and am about to buy another one this week. A 13,000 mile 2014 mustang gt 6 speed manual.
Mustang has never competed against corvette, lets start there, also this is not the first time GM have done overhead cam, the first ZR1 was DOHC
The engine was designed by lotus and built by mercury engines. However, GM owned lotus at the time, so technically You are correct.
Are you talking about direct competition? In the 60's Shelby ate Corvettes lunch with the GT350R.
@@kemosabegt350geuss6 The mustang wasnt built to compete with the corvette, even it it whooped their asses at times. The camaro and mustang were competing. Just like in the 60's the GT40 was the corvettes actual competition, but the GT40 took the corvettes lunch money. Then when the ford GT came out is when ford reintroduced corvettes biggest rival.
The Camaro & Firebird were their direct competitors to the Mustang. The Corvette was sort of a different class direction, That of what Dodge did with the Viper to compete more with the Corvette. Ford had the expensive Ford GT, While its a beautiful car, they basically took their existing F150 3.5 Ecoboost engine, but some lipstick on it & fed it RedBull to increase the horsepower, drop it in the new GT, then slap a half-million dollar price tag on it. For that price Ford should have developed a completely new engine for the GT, like GM did for this Z06/C8-R developement.
@@SebastianLong GT40 is a tweaked Lola platform. Shelby Cobra is an AC schnitzer also British body.
This would be be an amazing crate engine to put in a kit car
It will be. WILL.
I just hope it's before they outlaw the internal combustion engine. There are people in Washington working on doing exactly that. 💯
@@imdeplorable2241 Really? Damn!!!
@@imdeplorable2241 Let's Go Brandon!
Just what I was thinking.
The LT6 craps all over the Voodoo. It’s built from the ground up as a race engine, sharing only the bore spacing of the brilliant small block, whereas the Voodoo is completely based upon and bound by the architectural constraints of the Ford modular architecture.
its a bit silly to compare two completely different engines that debuted six years apart in vehicles with very different price ranges. congrats on being unrealistic.
@@OxBlitzkriegxO you mean “congrats on doing EXACTLY what this video does,” which is to compare the LT6 to the Voodoo. That’s literally the whole premise of this video, so I’m at a loss as to why you’d be so offended by the fact that I compared the two.
GM has a great "Ad/shortfilm" on the new zo6, think it's on Netflix or another stream. It's worth a watch!
Watched it! It was really well done
What's it called?
Porsche had the hydraulic valvetrain in the 991.1 gt3 and it had engine issues then when the rs came out the fixed the issue by lowering rpm to 8800. Then with the 991.2 They switched to a fixed valvetrain the engine issues went away and they were able to bump rmps back to 9k. So maybe Chevy won't have any problems with it. But only time will tell
the big issue solved was materials and thermal expansion, thats where GM scientists have a huge edge. oh and its also shimmed per cylinder by a cmm on the line!
You know these engines have been racing over a year now I seen it myself at the Grand Prix and it put to shame to the Porsche 30 sec lap time
@@MannyDelReal theses engines have been in development for 7 years now.
@@twistedneck no, the big issue with longevity is not "thermal expansion". The issue is tightening of the valve clearance due to the valve seat pounding into the head, and possibly tuliping of the valve as well which further tightens the clearance.
DOHC 16v heads can easily survive 8k-9k rev limits. The honda B-series heads have been doing it since the late 80's. The b16a heads love to spin 8-9k rpms in stock form, all day every day. It should be simple nowadays, being that 40yrs have passed since the release of the b16a. With modern oils, modern coatings, and the new alloys available, making a solid lifter DOHC head last well over 50-60k miles before needing a valve adjustment is absolutely possible. Having a solid lifter/cam follower is always a good thing in a high revving performance engine. It allows for a much more aggressive camshaft lobe, when opening the valve. That leads to performance gains.
This makes me happy to see because lately there has been so much talk about electric cars and there eventual take over of the market. Nice work GM for the gas power engines LOVERS. Great video and explanation of engine, well done.
Thanks for watching!
Electric can't take over, it's impossible to keep up with power needs.
GM made a mistake by not making the C8 electric.
Gm designers built a car for themselves as they know it’s their last chance to build something special before they are no longer able to. One last hurrah.
In about 2025 you will begin to see a large swing in EV production and a sales. By 2025 these types of ice engines will be dead or dying because of emissions and corporate mileage requirements. I believe 2024 will be the last year of the Hellcat engine and first year of the Dodge EV muscle car.
Well, Ford could come out with an EcoBoost engine designed to mix oil and coolant and self-destruct, but they already did that...
My 6.0 powerstroke agrees
those ecoboost crap deserves to self destruct, guess it doesnt even want to life lol
I don't think the GT350 would do very with with the Z06 being able to hook so well with the advantage of engine placement.
We'll definitely try to do some head to head comparisons and see!
No chance. From a GT350R owner. No torque and a manual in a heavy front engine car. No chance. The Z will still be outclassed by electrics on the street no comparison. Likely a 10.5 sec car at most which these days isn't that fast. Its a top end performer, not a great street car.
I worked for GM for years. Specifically at Powertrain. I can tell you that the assembly process is such that they mount the block to a rolling stand that gets moved from one station to the next every 15 minutes. Every nut and bolt is torqued and checked. As opposed to mass production.
I would still consider that mass production process. Due to the way an engine is built, each station cannot be only 30 seconds long. It's not like how the amg motors are made for instance, 1 tech start to finish.
A rolling stand moved station to station every 15 mins IS mass production
@@nkuntroll247 i agree. I was just stating this because its not typical of a standard assembly line. Theres more attention paid to detail.
These are hand built by a single tech, they don't move from station to station. They even have a signed plaque by the tech that assembled it.
@@boblund8444 this is fact. Im not sure wixom asm is still in operation. It may have moved to Bowling Green but I'm not for sure on that
Man, when you leave Team Corvette to do what they want, those guys sure go Medieval. That's a win not only for the GM guys but for any car guy. The LT6 will find its way in the history books.
In 1965 Ford built their first OHC engine in 90 days and then four won consecutive 24 hrs of La Mans. It only took GM 56 years to catch up with the engine technology ..and they had to copy Ford flat plane crank to do it. We'll see how Ford responds...
@@BobbyOfEarth Copied and did it better… man please. They both do great engines. Why the American on American war?
@@BobbyOfEarth 56 years to catch up? They did it on their first try. You mean it took 56 years for GM to show Ford how to do it right. That's like watching your little brother struggle to tie his shoes for 56 years and then stepping in and then teaching him.
@@BobbyOfEarth the 1991 GM/Lotus/Mecury LT 5 was a dual overhead cam 32 valve engine that produced 405 hp. It wasn't the first overhead cam engine GM produced the 1967 Pontiac Tempest had a sweet ohc aluminum v6 (it had a crankshaft balance problem and led to the design of modern day v6's with offset rod journals.
@@SouthernSpeedVideos hmmm, is that why Ford 427SOHC was banned in NASCAR, 24hour LeMans, and few other sanctioned races?. I'm still waiting on GM to be 1,2,and 3 at 24 LeMans period. It's been how many years again? Oh never mind. Maybe GM will win another one finally😉
I was a Ford guy in the 1990's. Well, maybe a bit after yet. Back then though, the legacy of what their actual, REAL performance engineering could do in the 60's and 70's was a lot fresher, and they were even still using some of the engines from that era. There was also John Colleti, who basically single handedly pushed Ford to build things they had no intention of ever building and sold it to his upper managers as a sales pitch product. When Ford decided to end production of the old school, he was tasked with getting the public invested in the new, so he made the Super Stallion and the 2000 Cobra R. Too bad Ford never wanted to actually sell those. That's the thing, Ford has always NOT sold things. It has been, since the early 70's, up to the public to MAKE their own. Ford guys am I getting you russled up? Think about it. In the 80's they had the Fox chassis. MOstly 4 banger and 6 cyl car, but they offered a 5.0 "GT" which of course is pretty well infamous at this point. But..... why not a 5.8 GT? Every Ford guy worth his salt is aware the 302 and 351W engines are basically only held back by an inch or two of engine bay dimension in most swap projects, everything, even the bell housing pattern, is identicle. Why didn;t Ford offer it? They swapped in a built 351 for a pace car build into a Mercury Capri back then. Hid the car from the public on it's way to and from the track to have the engine installed and removed. Why did it take Saleen to put a 351 into a car and show the world what Ford wouldn't do? Ford finally did do it.... to 250 cars and required driving school to pick up the car. Ford has ALWAYS been chicken Sh1t to "allow" the public to have a REAL performance car. The closest they got was the terminators, and that lasted two years before they released the slowest Mustang since the early 80's. Why not put the 4V into the T-birds and Cougars in the 90's? They have the same chassis as the Lincoln mark. Why not the 4v 5.4 into trucks? Why not the 351W into every car or truck for like 15 years that they could have done, even Crown Vics? Terminator motor was amazing, why not offer it in the 05? Ford has some balls, once in a while, the Coyote is a nice engine. When it was released, people were ecstatic! When they had their press conference, someone asked the guy if there was room to improve the numbers with aftermarket. The guy was shocked and didn't have much of an answer but tried to be positive. Even with the Coyote, Ford was oblivious to just how much the public had invested into the 5.0, the garbage 4.6 2v, etc. to MAKE THEIR OWN performance devision out of the lemons they were served, because three decades of GM not being afraid to put a 350 where a 305 used to sit from the factory (just one example) had left Ford fans desperate to keep up, and they had to, in the end, take matters into their own hands to do it. Ford has offered some mean machines over the years, but they never intended them to actually sell. Colleti's method used to convince Ford to even take time to design these things was unfortunately taken to heart and the mean machines were priced at a point the public at large couldn't touch them. Why not offer yesterdays mean machine drivetrain as today's optioned car for less money? Because Ford never intended to set up long term or even any type of volume production for these things. Money. Ford sells cars to grandmas and housewives and the average shmoe that can't handle a 0-60 in 8 seconds car. They have "optional" cars for people that want more, but you pay more. You can buy a mean machine if you have bank. There is no affordable performance. Affordable fun, but not performance. And Ford has been that way since 1973. They are happy to sell volume and relax in their chair as a distant third or fourth in domestic performance. They save face by making a ringer model, then price it so high they will only sell a thousand or two in a year vs 60,000 of the base model. Mostly, this is a result of Ford becoming and staying interested in being a global company. They spend more time and money worried about foreign sales then domestic, and in the big picture performance sales domestically are a fraction of their companies' financials. I switched to Dodge back in about 2006 when it became evident Ford was going to "1974" the Mustang while Chrysler was dropping truck engines into sedans and wagons, and then offering AWD to go with them. There is still a worked over fun to drive 94 Mustang in my driveway of course. I bought it 15 years ago. It was going to be swapped to a 351. Life got in the way, so I tuned it for back road highway cruising and it does what I want. I bought it to replace an 84 Capri. The Capri did have a 351.
I agree with everything you’re saying 100% At 51 years old I WAS a Ford guy through and through purchase brand new fox body 5speed manual notchback straight out of high school in 1989 bought every bolt on heads cam exhaust you name it and was kicking ass on the streets of Detroit for two years I beat every GM Japanese German and Ferraris up to around 120mph Anything after that I would lose to those exotics So I would hit the brakes 3:73 gears of course Car got stolen went to go buy a 94 mustang it was so lame I said fuck Ford bought a Corvette I wasn’t about to get my ass kicked on the streets trying to represent Ford.
I absolutely just watched a guy that did everything in his intellectual power to compare a new ZO6 to a GT350. I would like to add you never mentioned the flat plane crank. Probably an absolute killer. I am a corvette guy, I am presently slowly modifying my 99 FRC. I have been looking for a dyno to get a good base tune on it and now I am a little nervous coming to your shop. HAHA! I live in West Palm Beach. And hope if we cross paths I might be able to help you not change your favorite, but give you a little more of a reason to realize it’s not so bad being #2. All in fun, have a great day.
Awesome stuff Ken I’m a Ford Chevy guy and I can’t wait to get my hands on one of these C8’s. I was shocked at how well the regular C8 worked on the track I can’t imagine how good this thing is going to be.
Ford guy here and am actually excited about this new engine for GM. A lot of people who probably cant afford the car are talking smack towards Ford lol. Heck even the old Z06’s are bad ass.
My 92 SHO had a solid valve train and in 240k miles it never needed maintenance.
For the Coyote displacement to get bigger will require a new block casting. A new 60-degree V10 casting could open the door for 6 and 7 liter displacement with better mid-engine space management.
Good luck with the crankshaft trying to do that.
To be fair, GM is no stranger to OHC/DOHC engines. From the Pontiac SOHC inline six from the Sixties, to the modern HF-Alloytec V6 and Blackwing V8. The LT6 is just an evolution of that experience.
Took their a$$e$ a long time 😂
@@JT-pt5tl Yes, and that’s a huge testament to the original SBC, the LS, and LT engines, and to the engineers behind them! You would have to agree, the current GM LT V8’s have taken mass production pushrod actuated valve train tech about as far as it’s going to go. Very efficient, very reliable. My 6,500 lb truck regularly runs 23.5 mpg on the interstate at speed limit. And, the 5.3L is over 200K with only oil and filter changes.
I have a DOHC 3.4L V6 “X Engine” in my Lumina Z34, put out 200hp in 1993🥳
The original lt5 was a quad cam v8 whether or not gm has more experience than Ford is debatable Ford have Been messing with ohc engines for years in Europe another interesting note is Holden (gm’s old Australian subsidiary) designed a ohc version of their v8 that reportedly was better than the ls1 once they got it to work without blowing heads even while hsv Holden’s in house tuner had sent engineers to America to help develop the Ls engine
This isn't even the first time a Corvette has had a dohc setup.
As the owner of 2 C7 Z06s, they are amazing cars and I’m even more happy now that I’ve had a deposit down for a new C8 Z06 for 9 mos already. I’ll keep my ‘19Z and also have the C8Z. Best of both worlds.
Good for you man 🤷♂️
Corvettes are for Peasants. If you want to compete in the super car world you need a Porsche Lambo or Ferrari. I’ve put a deposit on the upcoming Ferrari and it’ll cream this new kid on the block z06.
@@squeekyclean1644 You remind me of a Ferrari owner I met at Road Atlanta who called my Corvette a cheap plastic car. He told me how the Ferrari is superior to my Corvette in every aspect. However he never once asked me anything about my car; he was too busy bragging about his. After the event he refused to talk with me. For most drivers at track events, there is a comradery wherein drivers respect each other and their cars. Hopefully you will learn that when you track your Ferrari. Safe driving to you!
@@squeekyclean1644 Ferraris are complete money pits though.
@@Pmtd1234 Ferraris are complete money 💰 pits anyway.
The Vette and the Mustang are very different animals. if I'm mostly tearing around the streets of Boston the Mustang, or a Camaro is a better fit. but with the Vette they are clearly going after the European supercars, for a fraction of the price. the Corvette is a supercar, where the Mustang is still a fairly traditional muscle car. obviously as a mechanic I drive a 2000 Marquis..as we all do. In a movie John Travolta once said: "you don't need speed. if you're important, people will wait for you."
2.6 seconds 0-60 and a 345 tires, I think it will tear up the streets better than those 2 cars lol.
I'd say the GT350 engine was built as a ground up race engine, yes there is similarities in its architecture, but The flat plane crank alone completely changes this engine from the regular mod/coyote engines. Also a lot of Honda engines use solid valvetrains and hard to argue with their reliability
It was built with more limitations than the Corvette engine. It had to be since affordability is a major component of getting into a Mustang as opposed to a Vette.
The Voodoo was actually raced quite a lot and did well.
GM has made dual over head cam engines off and on for decades. They actually had an awesome one, they killed with Olds..
Thank you & good reference
Those aurora v8s were nice. Oldsmobile was actually developing a quad-8 that was basically two quad-4s made into a V8. It would have made at least 320hp.😇
Cant forget the c4 zr1
@@connordingee4654 Pretty sure that was outsourced.
@@paulfrantizek102 Yes and no. It was a Lotus engine but GM owned Lotus at the time.
I was hoping you were going to talk about the flat-plane crank. That's a pretty major factor of the new design and how it revs so high.
There's just so much going on here and it's all good!
That is the major factor.
I agree it's a way bigger factor removing all those counterweights to get it to rev. Look at the GT350 also with the flat plane crank
He probably didn't mention it, because the gt350 also has a flat plane crank, so the lt6 doesn't have that as a benefit over the voodoo engine. It's been talked about for years. What he's highlighting, are the unusual aspects of this engine, at least in the production car world.
It's nothing new. It's actually late in the game since not too long from now, everything will be EV and even quicker lol.
Dude, I'm an European immigrated to 🇨🇦. I can't beleve how much reliable performance American automotive industry is throwing in! Started with Dodge, Ford and now Cadillac ATS-V. When prices come down... GT-350/Mach 1, CT4/5 Blackwing and now a mid engine top of the line NA engine, that revs over 8000!!! I'm soo saving!
Great product you have. The Porsche GT3 also claims to have permanent, factory set for life "lash caps" and use the "Helmholtz resonance principle" to extend the torque curb.
Thanks for this technical insight into the new LT6. I, too, am a Ford guy, but that aside, what a great time to be a car enthusiast. Hellcats everywhere. Forced induction is commonplace. Mid-engine Corvettes, etc. With this package, GM has set their sights on bigger game I think: Porsche, Audi, Lamborghini, et al. I expect it will be considered a performance bargain in that rarified air. Sadly, I think a power train like this will be a last gasp for pure internal combustion engines. Every manufacturer is setting their sights on all electric vehicles. It won’t happen overnight, but it is already happening much faster than I ever thought it would.
Thats what everyone keeps saying. But companies still produces ICE vehicles every day and EV still only accounts for 2% of sales.
@@Saddedude Exactly. Tesla stock is very overvalued because people think Tesla will have a monopoly on maintenance of their vehicles. The moment right to repair bills pass Tesla stock will crash.
@@Saddedude that sales percentage doesn't matter because the gov't is just going to outlaw the combustion engine and force everyone to buy an electric car. I would love to see everyone refuse to purchase an ev and just buy a used ice car, then maybe that would get all these fucking car manufacturers out of bed with the gov't.
Actually alot more people are giving up they're electric cars then buying em because they can't stand waiting 2 hours to charge they're Teslas and can't stand to have short distance in they're Teslas as well.
@@christenn32 You can thank the evil progressives for all of this.
Thanks for the details on the GM engine. As an old Toyota Master tech, in my opinion, I wouldn't worry about valve adjustment on a daily driver. We never had any tighten up except on the high load box trucks that ran 4 cylinders so it may be a problem racing. My concern would be GM getting the specs proper from the beginning, considering quality in mass production isn't their area of expertise. My biggest concern when GM does an overhead cam, due to their past efforts, would be oil leaks.
I would argue that the 3.8 V6's and any small block V8 would qualify for "quality in mass production" I have a 3800 series 3 and a couple big block V8s with well over 1 million miles between the three and they show no signs of giving up(the 3.8 os in my GrandPrix and I've rung the piss out of it for more than a decade and a half and highway on ramps are still my favorite stretch of road ;D ) I would also say that any manufacturer (Toyota/GM) that has so much experience in racing would have things sorted before such a hyped product hits the market.
I am a Ford guy but bravo to GM on this one ! I think they've done a heck of a job here . If Ford was to build something without the restrictions ( bore centre ) etc they use , perhaps they would match up better . Now to play catch up ?
The piston speed on a 5.2 is 114 mph, the piston speed on a Ferrari 458 is 108mph the piston speed on a LT6 is 106mph this lets the LT6 Rev up to its 8,600 red line with less vibration than the Ford 5.2 generates at 7,800 RPM.
critically its less friction... that stroke is a big killer - and it makes for smaller intake and exhast valves.
@@twistedneck True, but stroke increases torque. It's all a delicate balance.
It def does ,but gm moved the injector to the exhaust valve side of the cylinder so they could go with a larger intake valve & lower emissions! The guy from engineering explained did a pretty cool video on the engine!
@@WhalerGA too much stroke and you detract from the ability to have the high revs.. a balance for sure!
If you look into it closer, the Ford product is not a true flat plane which is up down down up. Looks like they didn’t want to spend the money in tooling and balancing equipment so they compromised and went: up down up down.
I'm gonna repeat a comment I left on another video about the LT6... Seriously, I'm _amazed_ at what they've done here. An engine that's only 0.3L larger than the Voodoo (5.5L vs 5.2L), revving 'only' 350 rpm higher (8,600 vs 8,250 rpm)...and yet, they managed to pull almost 150 more horsepower out of it (670hp vs 526) and an extra 31 lb-ft of torque (460 lb-ft vs 429). Raising the bar of specific output from 101.87 hp/liter on the Voodoo to 122.6 hp/liter, considering the bore x stroke dimensions for accurate displacement. Sure, Ferrari had a higher number with the 458 Speciale (134.5 hp/liter for a 4.5L V8 reaching 605 hp @ 9,000 rpm), but it's still amazing considering this formula (high-revving flatplane V8) was never done by GM before, while Ferrari has decades of experience. And I think GM did their job right, making an oversquare engine with much shorter stroke (80mm vs 93mm in the Voodoo), so this thing can rev higher and handle those rpm's better too.
It's definitely an impressive powerplant
This engine is impossible to hate. The flat plane crank is what makes it so special. Can't wait to hear them screaming.
I liked the video because you showed alot of respect to the coyote, I don't know why the main crank in my 2011 coyote engine keeps failing, thats the second time it happens and i had it since 2017 (and that's daily driving) Starts with engine knock and 5 minutes later it sounds like an orchestra. I woul really like to know your thoughts about that. Awesome video! 👍👍
I think Chevy absolutely nailed it with their engine design and placement among it's trim levels. The lt1 makes perfect sense as a larger, more torquey engine for the street and base c8. Then the lt6 for the zo6 that screams racecar and looks to set the zo6 as a thoroughbred supercar. Who knows what the zr1 or zora will be capable of. We could easily see a 1200hp Corvette in the near future. I think turbos could push the lt6 to an extra 230hp if the internals can hold up. So a 900hp LT7 and dual 150hp electric motors up front. 1200hp and the only drawback would be loosing trunk space. Or just delete the back trunk too and add an active aero spoiler like on the Ford GT. Chevy would be playing with the hypercars. They could make that thing start at 160k and it'd still be an insane bargain. It'd be a 918 Spyder for a fraction of the price.
Their planned top-level C8 Zora is looking in the hybrid AWD set up to push the 1000 bhp barrier, with this engine as twin turbo in addition to electric drivetrain. Truly something very exotic, & not typical American production car technology.
The valvetrain is supposed to have some sort of diamond coating which is why they say it'll be good for life
It's 'DLC' , diamond like coating. All the OEMs use it to get to their friction targets if necessary. It's not inexpensive by OEM standards, so it's only used if absolutely necessary.
Lmmfao. If it had friction, it sure as hell isn't made for life. It's made to be repaired and maintained for life. That's simple physics. I dunno where these engineers get off reporting that anything requiring friction, and at these tolerances, is a maintenance free mechanism. That simply doesn't exist, period.
I have always been a pushrod guy because they're so symmetric. But this 5.5 has the large bore and valves I've been waiting for. The ports are raised sky high, like a Ducati Panigale or '17+ YZ450F. There's 20% more bore, and most likely about 20% more power than the GT350. It has a very nice dry sump on the front of the engine. --I'm inclined to think going bigger on the 5.5 isn't going to be practical. The bore can't get that much bigger, so that leans towards stroker cranks. But, look at those piston crowns. They're already short. So, putting in a shorter piston and different rod like I can do with an LS isn't going to work. Besides, we have no idea if there's enough room in the crank-case for that. So, any extra performance on the LT6 is going to come from cams and additional RPM. I think 10,700RPM is going to be the practical limit with serious cams that have 240+ degrees of duration. -- I'm not gonna say boosting the 5.5 is a good or bad thing. I'm a purist. A race bred NA engine should stay NA because of the experience it offers. Honestly, I would chose the A50XS. (Whatever the name is. The forged 5.0 with GT350 heads. I'm a crossplane guy.) TIVCT delete, bigger cams. Very lightweight clutch. Front mounted dry sump. That would be a fun, simple engine. The power isn't the same, but the simplicity is there, and that means a lot.
As a "Used" to be GM loyal guy except for owning a 03 Cobra, I am concerned with the solid valve train, as they can't even figure out after 12 years how to get their displacement on demand to work without destroying camshafts and valve train components.
Maybe GM subbed this part out for Toyota to build .. lol
@@josephp1592 You must have gotten very lucky because there are thousands of forums with people talking about how bad there experience has been with it.
@@josephp1592 I have the LMG engine iron block c/w vvt and afm.I like the iron block for strength durability and less expansion and contraction.
Being a Ford guy my entire life, I never did GM or Mopar bashing. I want all to be amazing. It just pushes the limits for all of them. I would purchase all 3 and be happy. But still nothing like the sound of Mustang. Very distinctive.
Because Ford was greedy and trademarked the firing order for the mustang.. so it technically can't be copied...
Same with the Hemi to me. Distinctive and nothing like it sound wise. You can always tell when a piped mopar is coming
@@waynewilliams5353 especially the 02+ rams... Those suckers sounded mean factory...
@@sprsprtrudy a sbf and ls have the same firing order though.
if you really know your fords those blocks took a page off honda
One of my buddies is a top engineer on the c8 here in Michigan. He asked the chief engineer if they’ll be making a crate engine he said not for at least 5 more years.
Thats ok. Sure there plenty people out here these days with an ass full of money an 0 skill behind the wheel. Which in turn will have these in scrap yards totaled. But (at least most) of the valve train will be in tach. Crate engines with a few miles an atleast half the price.
@@jayisfedup6896 facts
@@jayisfedup6896 it would be cool to have this engine in a copo Camaro basically a Chevy 302 with dohc and a drysump and a flat plane crank
@@mf6738 Why would you want to put this kind of motor in a COPO? Not bashing on the idea, I’m just genuinely curious.
@@jayisfedup6896 one is already up player from RAIDERS just crashed his going 156 DUI
Here in Australia, with our V8SC series, they stroked the coyote, Miami here, to 5.4, revs to 7000rpm, can go further, but they had to minimalise the vct as it made too much power, race series is limited to 600hp. They use the vct to match the destroked ls3 (5.7) in both power and torque. The factory coyote is so restricted its not funny. But as you're comparing factory built motors, it does make the GM mind blowing, and proof that push rod really only goes so far, in power production and reliability in the long run. As a Ford guy, and a previous Holden mechanic, I'moving this new 5.5 from GM. Bring it on.
GM has always been better then Ford bro just go to any drag strip in any part of the word at any time.
Great thorough, informative, and straightforward analysis on both engines. Thanks 🙏
As evidenced by Ford’s new 7.3 OHV engines, the OHC vs OHV debate will rage on. This engine is bad ass, either way!
I think the debate is fairly well settled. Overhead cam is better, unless you need the engine to be compact. But for regular cars and trucks, the manner in which it is better doesn't matter.
@@rightwingsafetysquad9872 with trucks you want the torque available as low as possible for towing. That's part of why diesels are so popular for hauling, on top of its efficiency.
@@Squishysforbreakfast Low speed torque comes down to piston stroke, manifold geometry, and cam lobe profile; it has nothing to do with cam shalft location. Low end torque is equally achievable with either OHC or OHV configurations, but high end torque is not, it is much more achievable with OHC than OHV. And I could write half a book about why low end torque does not matter, with one exception: efficiency. Towing a lot can just as easily be done with a low torque engine revving to 20k rpm - that's what transmissions and torque converters are for - but it will use a lot more fuel doing so than a low revving torque monster. The one advantage of diesel is energy density; the fuel has more energy than an equal amount of gasoline, but requires a lot more air to burn so the diesel/air mixture has less energy than the gasoline/air mixture. A gasoline engine with the same internal geometry as a diesel with produce more of both torque and power than the diesel. Diesel requires a high compression ratio, which lends itself to a long stroke, small bore cylinder; which is what tends to be favored by low revving high torque engines in the first place - so basically if you do one, you may as well do the other from a design perspective. That was a lot of writing to say that cam shaft location has nothing to do with low speed torque, efficiency, or the choice for gasoline vs diesel.
The stroke is short because the engine revs out. Put a stroker kit on it and watch it throw a rod out the block.
that's why it will last. less rotational vibration with shorter rods as well as less overall rotating mass. Excellent choice
Love the videos, and really like the incite here, but time for a new chair!!! LOL
Growing up a ford guy, I've always wanted to ask a really dumb question, something along the lines of "why do people always compare the Corvette to the mustang"? But, I do actually understand, seeing as how ford doesn't make a supercar besides the ford gt that's actually attainable, so they end up comparing mustang to Corvette. I remember as a kid hearing people try to say the fox body is a better car than a c4 or c5 and I'm like...better in which way? Stock for stock it's going to lose in handling, braking, and top speed. Sure, you can build it to be a nice trailer queen car but it wasn't designed off the bat to be a track car, it was designed to be a mass produced car. I agree with this guy, there's only so far you can go with the modular idea, at least stock once again, but it's crazy how far dodge and chevy both pushed the pushrod v8, in terms of power and torque output, to where one of my buddies had a new 1Le ss, and it was just as fast as any mustang gt "performance pack" with all the "extra" technology, and definitely handled quite a bit better with the 1LE package. The brakes were Soo good too, that car really surprised me. It felt more like a track car from Germany than a tail wagging, lots of torque, low top speed car that some people assume muscle cars are. Unfortunately, whether I cheer for ford, or dodge, or chevy, well all be losing within a few years unless something major changes in the government. We've made a lot of advances in engine design and efficiency and even pushed some racer ish tech out to the masses, but we all lose within the next 5-10 years when it gets banned anyways, and the ones that are still on the road get "forbidden" to be modified in any way. A say end to the american dream, and especially people like me who grew up eyeballing all the shelby cars back when and of course some of the new muscle and supercars. Oorah chevy for one last ditch effort to resurect the piston engine, boo for it probably being one of the last ones, probably ever.
The Cobra was the first to kick Corvette ass......then came the GT 350......thats where the Mustang became the direct competition.....now sadly the FPC comes along in the beginning of the change of the guard .....electric in the near future will make ICE a hard sell
@@HAIDARAVEN to be fair the Cobra wasn't really a Ford it was British car (AC ace) with a Ford Engine stuffed in it (a 289 to start) and that happened before there was any factory backing. The Cheetah was really the answer to Cobra out on the track.
1le compares to the Shelby GT350 in the track not the GT with the performance pack.
@@diegogodinez6511 was talking about the early seasons
This was a pretty good point. There's already manufacturers that won't be doing any more new engineering on internal combustion engines. In a few short years, it will be all electric. We'll see if it was smart of gm to "bother" to make a new engine like this. I mean, does really any one "need" a car that can get to 60 mph in 3 seconds, or one that will do 200 mph? Also, there have been some great reasons why Ferrari and others never made a flat plane V8 over a certain displacement level. Surely technology has allowed this, but the jury is still out, as none of these have any real miles on them, in customer's hands. The original ZR1 was tough to get anyone to work on it. I love all this hp and such, and I think the best sounding cars have flat plane cranks. When you hear a voodoo gt350, just tooling around, it's the best sound ever.
Never in my life wanted a Corvette until I saw this new Z06
Facts
same here brother...this z06 is chevys swan song to gas engines as the ev revolution grows...the previous c8 sounded like a jon deer to me..the new one is up there with the very best sounding engines of all time...thats a hella achievement! these will be great investment and bound to be collectables
they did a great job putting that together. it might take a while before anyone can top that. Chevrolet themselves might be the only one to top it. me personally I prefer the LT5 and even LT4 over the LT6. even though the LT4 makes 20 less horsepower than the LT6 it makes 190 more lb-ft of torque.
You coming out like this being a hardcore Ford guy shows character, I'd trust my car at your shop any day....#RESPECT
I feel like part of the problem with ford's engines is that the coyote is designed based off of old workhorse motors to be a mostly performance motor, and the ecoboost motors are the ones designed off of racing engines that end being workhorses. I love ford too but I feel like their thinking on engines is backwards
Damn you hit the nail on the head. I'm a Ford guy as well but they are backwards thinking. Get with the program (Mr better 💡 idea)
The potential to Rev to the moon should be there on ohc engines but they really only took advantage of that on one or two engines.
Backwards indeed!
It’s not bad thinking it’s actually better the work horses are designed to last forever compared to the f1 style racing
Most modern overhead cam motorcycles are solid valvetrain, spin upwards of 12K rpm, and can usually double the valve inspection interval, often not needing it at 40K+ miles. I wouldn't worry about it, modern machining tolerances really are that good.
I am a broken individual... I cannot focus on anything except the worn out part of your chair. Thank you though for breaking it down though. You're not over complicating it and it's really easy to understand what you're saying. Thank you sir!
Imagine if the Ford GT had this engine instead of the Taurus V6.
I have to admit when Ford put the 6 in the GT I was really turned off- This engine in an absolute marvel of technology
😂😂😂
Lmao
@@97VobraOwner ..and after winning La Mans in 2016, the FIA handicapped Ford by reducing boost in 2017 ..simply because the GT was so well balanced in handling and performance.
Yeah the 3.5 ecoboost is impressive, but I feel like ford should’ve put a V8 in the new GT.
I love the technical content Most people,even the guys twin turbocharging the c8 don’t have this level of understanding.It is truly why I watch your channel.👍👍👍👍
Cool video, thank you. One comment, you show the GT 350 TQ (purple line) as over 450 ft/lbs torque from around 4000 RPM to around 5200 RPM but the specs you showed were 529 torque for the GT350. Any idea what caused that?
Can't really compare costs based just on engines, the Corvette is also mid-engine etc...a lot of other factors going into the cost difference.
This engine was tested for a very long time. The shimming with the valve lashing and so on was done and they say never needs to be done. The oiling system on this car is superior. I recommend you go look bad footage with the second in command engineer on this motor. He goes through the incredible oiling system on this car. It is actually incredible and all the tolerances are so within spec they test the engine before the shims they test the engine after the shims and then they test it again. This thing is a freaking monster
It all sounds great and I hope that is the case, but I was around aircraft overhaul for years for military and commercial, and there is a lifespan on parts no matter how perfect you build things. Nothing is perfect but I guess we will all see.
Ford has had the basis for a competitor to this LT6 for years. The 6.2 Boss has 4.53 inch bore spacing. The 6.2 Boss is just a siamese bore aluminum block with dry sump, a nice set of 4-valve cylinder heads and some intake/exhaust tuning away from being an easy competitor. I’d prefer a cross-plane crank though
Make the exact copy of the 6.2L BOSS V8 block out of Aluminium, add some GT350 heads to it with some cams, and give the displacement up to 427 cubic inches and man you'll have you're self a Ford All Aluminium 7.0L DOHC 32V V8 known as the Modern day Cammer.
Ford and Roush did experimented with the 6.2L. Look up Boss 777, it was a prototype 7.0L engine based on the 6.2L. Their goal was 700hp but when they revved this thing to 9000rpm it produced 850hp, sadly it was not approved for production and it was cancelled.
@@Jimmyxsx The 777 even used production ready 6.2 cylinder head castings. A DOHC 4-valve version of that engine should have happened, IMO.
Me too, on the cross-plane crank. Single-plane cranks are for 4 cylinders.
GM 427 LS7 was a siamese also. NOT for boosting
Don't worry about the solid valve train too much. I have had motors with valve shims go on forever without any adjustment, and yes I am jealous too, but happy chevy is upping the ante.
Overhead cam engines where the valve is directly under the camshaft do not alter their valve clearance as quickly as a push road engines does. I checked a Toyota we owned as part of the 100,000 mile service and every single valve clearance was spot on. No shims needs to be adjustes
2 main points, I think your estimation on torque is over-estimated roughly 30 to 40 lb-ft at the low engine speeds - assuming this engine is capable of the same torque capacity of a 2-valve pushrod engine. This assumes this engine will be better than other 4-valve V8 engines at low speeds. Secondly and more importantly - if you add stroke to either flat plane crankshaft engine, the secondary vibration that is inherent in ALL flat plane crank V8 and 4 cylidner engines will become excessive. Horizontal vibration is inherent with all flat plane crank engines and this is directly affected by the rod length to stroke ratio (R/L) - so if you increase stroke, the rod has to become shorter and vibration is enhanced and then multiplied when you double the rpm. So a small vibration at 4,000 is likely 4x when you double engine speed to 8,000. The bottom line is Chevy did their homework and stretched the stroke and resultant rod length to stroke ratio as far as is possible to minimize (but not eliminate) the vibration. Many years ago Ryan Falconer built a 5.0L 3.00-inch stroke small-block Chevy for Formula 5000 racing and discovered it shook itself apart. He probably put the rod length at 5.7 inches which makes the R/L less than 2.00 on a 3.00 inch stroke which tends to amplify the vibration. So the bottom line is you can't stroke this engine to make more torque - it will shake itself to death. Look up secondary vibration problems with flat plane crankshafts. It's best to avoid modifying the bore/stroke/rod length design orientation in this LT6 engine for many reasons.
Are these the excuses you guys come up with when getting gapped?
That's why Ferrari and McLaren keep the displacement down. They know
Great insight into the two engines. The Z06 also has a 8-speed DCT verses the Ford GT350 6-speed manual. That just makes the Z06 that much in performance and should increase the cost to performance ratio.
Chevy has changed the c-8 trans a lot. 1st gear was just like a 4:11 on a 4l60e. The z06 is way lower than that. It must be controlled buy the computer as not to pull the front wheels off the pavement.
It's silly to compare the GT350 to a Corvette anyway. The Mustang is a pony car, not a sports car. The car for comparison would be a Camaro 1LE. And I doubt that a GT350 is much faster than one of those. A 5th gen Camaro Z28 would kill a GT350 around any road course.
Not a shot at the OP... but I get a kick out of the manual transmission or nothing crowd... best quote I ever heard: "once the horsepower is there, a manual trans might as well be made of glass" 😂
@@andyharman3022 odd because the GT350 vs 7.0L Z28 was done and the Gt350 won, the GT350 beat it around Laguna by nearly 2 seconds, and gapped the Z28 by .2 seconds and two car lengths in the 1/4 mile. You could say the GT350 subsequently killed the Camaro as GM was never going to invest enough in NA engine technology in a Camaro to beat it. The only way GM could beat the GT350 was put a supercharger in the ZL1, which Ford came along and beat with the GT500. However the GT350 remains the pinnacle of NA pony cars and realistically the ICE pony car's history, at this point has been completed.
The c8 dual clutch transmission problems already, leaks after 7,500 miles lol
Driving 4 answers has a great video that kind of explains why these engines are so different. They weren’t really designed for the same purpose.
I'm a ford guy but I'm really impressed with the N/A hp numbers on the C8 ZO6. Honestly if Ford were to bring back their flat-plane 5.2L engine and give it direct injection and a little more compression they could get similar numbers out of it.
Their flat engine also came out nearly 7 years ago.....
@@Spiritcr1jsherok and? They’ve been making DOCH engines for 30 years and in a Thanos snap just got dusted
@cloudstrife4897 not really . One was for a 50k car and one was for a 120k car. Should be better 7-8 years later. Car and driver had a complete engine failure on every new vette since 2013....
Having owned Ducatis with the Desmo valves I have said whoever does this first on a production engine wins! He didn't even mention this. It's huge yall, and a flat plain crank! I just might have to buy my first Chevrolet!
We'll can only hope it works as well on a mass produced engine!
GM has done flat Plane crank before. LS engines and LT engines take boost. The 6.0 engine from Escalade and heavy duty vans and trucks is the other option to the 5.3. I am a GM guy but have a respect for 2JZ, RB26DETT, and Rotary
@@TeamHeat604 I do know what I'm talking about. Your Mom isn't ready for more yet.
@@TeamHeat604 Nashville. No goof. Happy about the new Vet. You want to piss on me. MAN! .
electrics rule. its simple
Looking forward to the day you and PBD has the opportunity to do R&D with one of them. Congratulations on your recent well deserved expansion. You have been working endlessly to get there and your chair shows it. Lol, time for you to get yourself a new comfortable throne for the kingdom. GL going forward
I would love for PBD to develop the Z06. It’s an awesome car.
This Story is not complete without mentioning GM doing the DOHC LT-5 32 years ago and running it for 5 years in the C-4 ZR-1 Vette. Lingenfelter made them do huge numbers 25 years ago.
Awesome video, the only thing I think is worth pointing out is that it would be a more fair comparison instead of the “base” gt350 to the Z06, compare the price to the GT350R. That one msrp’s at more like $75k which is closer both in price and features to the new Z06
Enjoyable to watch because you know your craft so well.
I love the GT350 (I'm really bummed that Ford hasn't found another use for the Voodoo) and I love the Z06 (I have a C6 Z06). I'm not a loyalist and only follow and buy from one brand. I just love cars and can appreciate the great ones. The one thing, in this video, that stands out for me is the constant comparison of the C8 Z06 to the GT350. I understand that both cars were engineered to blur the line between street and race car. I understand that both use flat-plane crank V8s. I also understand that both have four tires. The one thing I don't understand is the idea that the C8 Z06 competes with the GT350 (or that the C8 Stingray competes with the Mustang GT). They are not in the same market. I understand that the comparison in the video is mainly between the two engines (both being DOHC and flat plane V8s) but would almost be like comparing the Ford GT to the Raptor because they use the same engine. The Mustang is a front-engine 2+2 while the C8 is a mid-engine 2-seater. The base C8 costs more than the base Mustang. The Z06 is going to cost more than the GT350. For that difference in price, the Z06 better have better performance. Both cars, and both engines, are awesome. I would still love to have a GT350. I still think it looks better than any other styling updates that were done to the Mustang afterwards.
Same way... I will say that voodoo was trash. 90 degree engines exist for one reason... they're smoother and more reliable.. 180 degree V8s are literally 2 4 cylinders sharing a crank... 4 cylinder engines are rough running.. take that times 2
GT350 gets matched on the track by a 20000 dollar cheaper ss 1LE... gets obliterated by equally priced ZL1 1LE (which is still faster than a C8 at the track) GT350s were slow, and the mediocre handling trade off killed it
@@modfoxv10 Looking at some times at the same track for a SS and GT350 and the GT350 was faster. The ZL1 should kick the GT350's ass as it is a much larger engine with a supercharger. The SS is really good on the track. Really good but an absolutely terrible car in general. GM was so driven to one up the mustang once and for all they forgot to build a viable vehicle...and now it dies again. To bad. No one who drove the last three years of the GT350 said it was anything other than wonderful and special. What obscure rag are you reading? GM Fanboi Monthly?
I agree but I would also say Fords top engine IS the eco boost in the Ford GT. It’s far closer in horse power and excels in torque compared to the LT6. The Mustang is a pony car that seats 4. It wasn’t built to fight the Corvette. The C8 is a mid engine super car platform. Much like the Ford GT. If you want a comparison for the top engines and platforms from Chevy and Ford, those are the ones. The Voodoo is not Ford’s premiere motor.
@@toddjohnson7133 I agree, I love Corvettes, have a C5Z, and I drove a GT350 recently and was impressed. Engine ran just as smooth as anything else, power delivery with it's gearing made up for any lack of low end torque. Very fun to drive
Gotta say, I was gonna talk some friendly smack about you being a Ford guy, but you are clearly a car guy. Great job on the comparisons between the two cars.
I think you hit the nail on the head with the Corvette motor, larger bore, shorter stroke. Does anyone remember the 1969 Camaro Z28? Bore 4 inches, stroke 3 inches. Revved to 6500 plus way back in the day.
I'm sure it incorporates some things learned from the LT5 which was developed by Lotus engineers and built by Mercury Marine. They kept the bore spacing of 4.4 somehow squeezed a larger bore compared to the 3.90 and shortened the stroke from the 3.66 originally in the LT5. 31 years later they have access to way more technology and must have liked the LT5 that much more than every LS they ever produced.
I’m glad GM has has decided to go hi tech amd take the fight to the Europeans and Japanese As someone who worked 25 years for Mercedes Benz, I used to love and see the Corvettes hand the Europeans a lesson at endurance races especially at Lemans Well done America 🇺🇸
Gm has no buisness there. They never have
@@Mike.hobbies no business where ?
@@Mike.hobbies LOL 🤪
I’m stoked to see how it performs, just sad that they waited this long and even still you have to buck up for it. Shame they didn’t offer a 32 valve in the base c8
That is only if you don’t want the power curve of a 6.2 liter. The balance between Torque and Horsepower from 1500 to 6500 RPM is insane.. supercharged or without… it pulls like a a Sarturn V, in a ZL1 or a Z06, it’s terrifyingly quick, perhaps why it’s so annoying to Ford lovers. The Torque is addicting…
@@mbukukanyau agree
I am a long-time Mustang guy, but the progression that GM has accomplished with small-block V8's since the early 1990's is astounding. GM did not stay with OHV because they couldn't do (D)OHC. They did it primarily to keep the engines simple, inexpensive, reliable (when cylinder deactivation is not involved), high parts availability, ease of aftermarket support, good power curve, etc. Certainly no European auto manufacturer could have accomplished what GM has in this regard; likely no automaker anywhere. Not without spending WAY more than GM had to spend on development. My hat off to GM !! I hope they keep the OHV V8 alive for many years. One of my bucket list items is to have a vehicle that I can drop an LS/LT crate engine into. I doubt it will happen, but that's okay. I can still watch others do it.
@@WhalerGA I have wanted to do a project car with a GM crate motor, too. My wallet just doesn’t wanna cooperate. GM makes some cool plug-and-play crate drivetrains. A little pricey (at least for me), but you can drop in the drivetrain that suits your build, and with a warranty.
@@WhalerGA you summed that up pretty good, GM obviously can do DOHC, they’ve been making the 3.6 family since 03, not to mention the Quad4 from 1988. I just wish they would rethink canceling the Z/28 with this engine, they just stopped caring about Camaros after ZL1 1LE.
i loved ford till i met my legendary cousin{within the family cause his nhra history from late 60s and early 70s} and he had all chevy engines in his 1st gen mustangs. he said he sold his ford dealers for toyota in the 90s because how much he had to do warranty work. said hed give me his last 6cyl 64.5 as long as i promised to use a 383 stroker with nx. still sitting in his yard under a lean to next to his paint shop where he keeps his chevy belair draggster im so damn stoked for chevys new tech. i cant wait till crates are 5kish. would totally use one in a late 40s-early 50s buick. and the sound..... good god the roar is incredible
Your concern about the valve train was the first thing I thought of when I saw the overview of this. Good for GM if it turns out as intended. I guess we'll see...
I saw an interview with one of the lead engineers for this engine, and one of the things he mentioned on the valve train, was that they engineered the materials between the cam lobs and the rockers, and valve tips so that they limit wear to the point that you don't need to adjust the valve train for the life of the engine (like you said). I suspect we are talking about tool steels being used in these components.
Why have rockers? It should be cam on bucket. That’s a better design for lightweight and higher and faster reviving.
Wear on cam lobes, rockers, and valve stem tips isn’t the problem. In modern engines, this wear is negligible, especially with roller followers and synthetic oil. But even if you get greater than expected wear here, the worst you are going to have is a noisier engine. On the other hand, the REAL bugger is valve seat recession.this generally outpaces valvetrain wear, causing valve clearance to get smaller. Eventually, the valves don’t close because there is no valve clearance. And the valves (particularly exhaust valves) burn away. Now you’re pulling your head, getting a valve job, and having to cut down valve stems to get a proper adjustment since no shims will likely be available. Not good. But maybe the aftermarket will provide a solution here.
@@matthewstorm5188 I don't know of any production engines from automotive OEM's that use roller lifters and cams.
Congratulations 🎊 coming into new senses! Wow, I truly appreciate your intelligence & passion of racing & American Engineering, Made in the USA 🇺🇸!