Why professional woodworkers never use stain
You been asking, and I've been stalling. But finally it's here: how to use stains and dyes like a pro. I hope this is helpful for you, friends.
I have a PATREON! If you want to support this channel and join a great community of woodworkers, you can do so here:
/ encurtis
I got new merch!! If you want to purchase a GO MAKE A THING shirt, you can find them at the link below:
www.bonfire.com/store/encurtis/
Thanks for watching! If you enjoyed this video please consider supporting my channel by subscribing and hitting that notification bell. It really helps small channels like mine.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Items I use in this video (some are affiliate links which help sponsor this content):
TransTint: amzn.to/4bdGyc0
Mixol (kit): amzn.to/3U8Xz0S
India Ink (black): amzn.to/4968L2u
Oil Paint (black): amzn.to/48MyBcd
Oil Paints (mixed pack): amzn.to/3Ojjb77
Wipe-on Poly: amzn.to/3SfXPZ9
Danish Oil: amzn.to/486eVip
Water-based Polyurethane: amzn.to/3OhvCQC
Mineral Spirits: amzn.to/4b9DsWq
Denatured Alcohol: amzn.to/3u81XCy
Acetone: amzn.to/49691hY
My Finish Mix:
Minwax Polyurethane: amzn.to/3kPgpuO
Liberon Finishing Oil: amzn.to/3kXkIEf
Danish Oil (alternative): amzn.to/3Njlabs
Liberon Beeswax: amzn.to/3Jm2yFN
Turpentine: amzn.to/3SWFznB
Mineral Spirits (alternative): amzn.to/3oKU83h
Items I keep on hand in the shop:
Glue:
Titebond I Wood Glue: amzn.to/3zRXHGv
Titebond III Wood Glue: amzn.to/3MVnG6j
Titebond Quick and Thick: amzn.to/42HGuMC
Liquid Hide Glue: amzn.to/3PhZEEW
TotalBoat Epoxy:
For 5% off any TotalBoat product, visit www.totalboat.com/encurtis
Power Tools and Accessories:
Festool Domino: amzn.to/47YEty0
Table Saw Blade - Woodworkers II: amzn.to/42bIOLa
My favorite trim router: amzn.to/3LbCbTF
DeWalt Trim Router fence: amzn.to/43cYwr2
My Festool Router Setup: amzn.to/3ZPIQal
Extra Fence: amzn.to/3KHi9jI
1/2" dia Router bit: amzn.to/3UkRFYI
A Better Alternative (Spiral Up Cut): amzn.to/3mcPsSp
Sharpening:
Ohishi Waterstones: amzn.to/3TkoZhP
1,000/8,000 Combo (great budget option): amzn.to/3Lqj7Sh
Angle Setting Jig Plans: www.lie-nielsen.com/pages/dow...
Inexpensive Honing Guide: amzn.to/3Jo2Uub
Lie-Nieslen Honing Guide: www.lie-nielsen.com/nodes/423... guide
Sandpaper for Flattening: amzn.to/3Jor73F
You can stay up to date with my work here:
/ encurtis
/ encurtis
encurtis.com/
I'm a professional wood worker. I use that kind of stain all the time. I can name a dozen others who use that kind of stain, as well.
I'm a professional consumer, and I and others like myself would probably never buy a piece that has been stained with the standard basic store bought stuff, because it looks like crap compared to actually taking time to create your own formula that works for the project. So you and all the other 'professional' woodworkers are essentially just cutting your client base in half 👍
@@tiaan_va What an asshole. If only you had been around all my life that I've been making a good living with perfectly happy customers. And, since I already have more work than I can do, I guess the fact that I have cut my client base in half is actually a good thing. We're all very impressed with your ultra-high standards. How wise you must be! 🤣
@@Abmotsad What a simple human you are, no wonder you are happy with just out of the can stain. .."more work than I can do".... have you ever heard of expanding your business?? Usually when an (successful) entrepreneur reaches a point where they have more work than they can do by themselves then they expand their business and delicate redundant and repetitive tasks (like staining for example haha) to other people while you focus on more key components. But as a woodworker who only uses pre-packaged stain you must be very happy living a life of mediocracy so no surprise there 😅
I recently built and installed a peninsula cabinet as an addition to a customer's existing kitchen. They wanted it to match their 10 year old stained maple cabinets, and being the yes-man that I am, I obliged. I made a toner with the information I learned from this video, and it was a remarkable success. I learned a ton, and can't thank you enough! I am sure I will use these techniques for years to come, and probably never buy premixed stain again.
This reminds me of what I learned in college painting classes, creating glazes in multiple layers. Then using this method to either diffuse a focal point or add additional depth that an opaque layer could not create. Thank you for the inspiration.
Biochemist here! Not a PhD, but a MSc! I can't know this for sure, but based on what I'm seeing from the MSDS, I think it's called "Mixol" because it's alcohol-based (generally alcohols end with the suffix "-ol"), and not because it sounds like "mix-all". And alcohols would mix well with other alcohols, and usually with water as well. Makes sense that it would not mix with oils or anything hydrophobic.
And THAT'S why you make friends with smart people 😂 It's also a German product so I know the name is lost in translation a little bit. Good to know though. I wonder then why it mixes well with acetone?
@@ENCurtis acetone is in the family of ketones, which is what we call hydrocarbons that have a double-bonded oxygen atom. The smaller a ketone molecule is, the more it is soluble in water. The larger a ketone is, the less soluble it is in water and the more it will mix with oil. Since acetone is the simplest and smallest ketone, having only one carbon atom on each "chain", it's the ketone which mixes best with water.
But the "reason why", more to the point, is that the oxygen atom tends to pull electrons more towards itself than the carbon atom. So the electron cloud will be tilted away from the carbon (making a partial positive charge) and towards the electron (making a partial negative charge). Since the molecule has a partial charge (ie. an electric charge "polarity") which depends on what angle you're interacting with it, it will happily make "hydrogen bonds" with water. The molecules of both types will attract each other, which is what it means for two substances to mix well together.
It also looks, from looking at the German wiki page for "Alkohole", that they also follow the same IUPAC chemical nomenclature. I'm not a German speaker, so I can't be sure there aren't funny language things, but it looks like it works similarly as in English and French.
Ooh, chemist. Nice. What is the deal with isocyanates and wipe on poly. Should we be worried?
I played around with dyes and stains a lot last year to no avail. This video was more (and better) info than I found in months of searching. Thank you, this video has been a ton of help!
I was a finisher at a milling shop. We mixed all our stains ourselves. Your spot on
One of the most informative videos you've made..... very practical with approachable strategies! Well done, Erik.... thanks!!
This explanation was awesome. It will make listening to other finishing videos more understandable.
Has a lifelong woodworker I have finished many many projects and I've always felt this was a skill that I was weakest in. Your explanation of dyes , toners and stains was excellent. I have experimented with Adeline Dye with some success and your video added to that knowledge base. thank you !!
I'm making a thing and this is exactly the info I needed. _raises coffee cup and nods_
*_tips cap and walks away slowly_
And that will be going into my saved folder to reference when I need it. Thank you again for covering something I knew nothing about.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on colorants with us. Here's a few comments if I may: 1) you most certainly can topcoat a waterbased stain or dye colored piece with solvent-based topcoats, so let's clarify that point right away. Simply ensure you allow the time necessary for the colorant mixture (dye or stain) to fully cure before laying on the topcoat. 2) If you ever need to dulicate a finish, you'll wish that you had measured the individual elements (in your example, bix box paint, mineral spirits and oil-based poly, which is known in the industry as the topcoat). 3) here's a trick to help highlighting open pored woods: to highlight the open pores of woods such as the oak you cited in your example, pro finishers will first dye the entire piece with whatever colour they wish the background (i.e., the less porous wood areas) to finish off at, then lock that in with a light wash coat of thinned topcoat, followed by the dye they wish the open pore areas to be - which in most cases is a very contrasting colour. Then all of this is topcoated. 4) one important difference between analine dye and pigmented stain is the effect UV rays have on the two: the analine dye will rapidly degrade its tone unless you topcoat it with a highly-UV protecting product. Choose carefully, as not all topcoats will provide the required protection needed. 5 I hope this all helps.
I'm really glad you covered this topic! As someone that does finish work for a living, it can get deflating trying to explain to clients why it costs so much to do compared to a can of stain from the big box stores. Especially if they have an exact tone or interior design concept they want.
Glad you didn't have any major complaints about this one then! 😂
@@ENCurtis You know just enough about this to make you dangerous lol.
Man I couldn’t agree more!!!
It costs me around 20 bucks a gallon to make a base for my stain devoid of color. I could make it cheaper if I didn't care for my health. My stain smells good! Like walking into an orange Grove. The bottles of mixol are $5.80. While I don't know exactly how much goes in a gallon. I would think less than a bottle, surely less than 2. So with color I would guesstimate about $26 dollars in cost. Flip that to the customer for 50 even. I'm 7 dollars more than Varathane for a high quality gallon of custom made stain. This is based off slight bulk buying on 1 ingredient in 4 gallon allotments. Technically still all retail pricing though. I'm still kind of new to finishing. Mixing colors is the hardest part of all of it. If I were bidding this stuff for custom finishing. I would charge separately to create thier finish, then sell them their finish, then install it if they chose. How much do you think varathane would charge for a 1 off custom color? 5,000? 10,000? Would it even look good? If it takes me 5 hours to figure out a custom color. That's $200 in labor. That's where the money sink is in custom color matching. That's where skill and fine tuning a process can save the homeowner loads of money. Through a body of knowledge built over time through decades of making samples, one can reach a point they most likley have options fairly close to what people want, allowing us installers to expedite the color matching process as well as minimize it.
As a fairly new woodworker I enjoy how to and informational videos. Thank you
Great video. Please cover the the safety issues with acetone! I grew up in a fiberglass factory and learned two things: 1) Acetone burns with a nearly invisible flame, and 2) Acetone is a powerful explosive. So no sources of ignition while working with acetone.
I think you just covered the safety issues with acetone , basically "watch out , it is very flammable"
It is bad for the liver also.
@@ydom706 well ya , if you drink it !!!! Just kidding , I know what you meant ..... "don't breathe the fumes either"
Why is everyone always hating on poplar. It takes stains beautifully and it has grain that is plenty interesting. It just takes extra time and care and preparation to get 'good' results. In fact, I've never seen a single wood species (of the non high oil content variety) that doesn't stain and have beautiful natural grain.
It's so varied on grain and color that, at least from a finish carpenter's prospective, makes it hard to use for clients all over their house. Sometime the grain and color looks fine, but then it can look brown, green and then a more natural wood color, and most clients don't like it. And then finishing it with a sealant or using stain on it brings out the oddness of it. I agree, sometimes it looks fine, but it's just not consistent enough for most people. By the time you pick out all the pieces that make a door casing look good, you've got a pile of "crap wood" twice as large as what you used. Now, if you're making a small piece of furniture or a box or something: cool. But don't trim your house of make cabinets that you want to clear coat or stain!
Hi Eric. This video just popped up on my you tube feed so I had to check it out. I’m a out of the can kinda guy but you know it was one of the most informative videos I’ve watched. Thank you. I’ll have to check with my big box stores up here in Toronto Canada
The "new" saw looks sweet behind you! After you video unveiling it, I am glad it found a nice home in your cabinet
Aniline dye has been my go to for decades. So versatile and more colours than you will ever need. One of the things I really love about Aniline is you can get it in either water or solvent soluable form. I personally prefer the solvent soluable as it works really well with Citrene Turpene or Pure Gum Terpene. It is nice walking into the shop and having it smell like an Orange Grove or Eucalyptus Forest and not a chemical factory.
I didn't know about solvent soluble formulas. Good to know!
@@ENCurtis I started experimenting with the WD Lockwood powdered dyes last year. I went with water and alcohol-or-water based ones since I thought I would mostly be using them with shellac. I then spent a lot of time evaporating alcohol out so I could replace it with water because the alcohol evaporates so fast it gets patchy (apparently it's great if you apply with HVLP sprayer). I've mostly moved on to oil/poly type finishes so might have to pick up a few of their oil-based ones. The colors themselves are excellent, and quite easy to mix (albeit a bit messy).
Been using WD Lockwood dyes since the early 2000s, when I learned about them from a member on WoodWeb. They are incredibly transparent, which makes them amazing to work with. They're the only dyes that I know of that don't lead to splotchy results on some difficult woods to stain. I once stained a hard maple floor in my house to a charcoal gray, and there was zero splotchiness in the outcome. It's almost as if the wood grows in that color considering how even it penetrates, and dries. Also it's the only stain that on oak doesn't leave that lurid darkening of the open grain. I will only heed a word of caution, if you use water-based polys or lacquers, they often dissolve the dye back into solution. So it's advisable in a finishing schedule to alternate between water-based product and an oil-based one to seal the color. They're a great company in NYC, and a super small business which I love to support.
What brands solvent soluble dyes are you using ? It seems a must in recent 15-20 years , at least here in NY you simply CAN'T get good stains ,you have to make your own, just turned 60 & want to finally restore all the antique stuff I accumulated all my life, just for this time. & now I can't. . . But I can, screw you NY lawmakers I'll order it if they won let me buy it in a store . any solvent mixes you recommend, I think the old radios and victrolas used a shellac and lacquer mix
Eric, thanks very much for this intro into stains, dyes and toners. You've lifted the curtain and given me a good opening to start experimenting. - bonus for anyone interested: I used OSB to cover the walls of my basement shop, because it's cheap and interesting looking. My cabinet tops are all shellacked MDF (Zinsser/amber) and I tried that on the OSB. Wow! They complement the MDF and the effect is quite warm and pleasing. Cheap solution.
That's really interesting! Thanks for sharing. And glad you enjoyed this one!
So far, in my short time in my woodworking hobby, this is the most informative video I've found. Very worthwhile, even in the comments.
I love using dyes, but I also have often used a coat of yellow or deep amber shellac as a toner and/or as a way to then be able to apply further toner or stain without it penetrating into the open pores of the wood. As a former fine arts student and designer, agree the fundamentals of colour theory are particularly helpful when you start mixing up your own tints. This was an excellent tutorial, thanks so much for this detailed information and demonstration.
As an artist who is also a woodworker hearing that I can use oil paint to make any colour, exactly the shade I desire makes my heart sing. I have extensive experience with dyeing silk fabric and threads as well and thought this was the way to go. I wish I knew this when I was renovating my house and needed to match the colour of existing stained wood. I got close enough, but it has always bugged me that I couldn't get exactly what I was after. I'll be trying these techniques out on two new sets of doors that I need to make.
I’ve been a cabinet and furniture maker for years. I have always use Minwax oil based stains, but wow you have opened my eyes to want to try this. Thank you for this video. I’m a fairly new subscriber to your channel and with each video, I am excited that I subscribed. I love your no bs delivery approach to every video you do
Thanks Eric. I've been dabbling in these techniques since asking about adding dye/stain to your mixture in the comments on that video. So far so good. I l like the notion of layering it lighter as you go. I occasionally find myself having to refinish just the tops of old consoles and similar (usually Walnut) and trying my best to match the rest of the piece that has aged finish. The toning and dyes make that possible. In spraying lacquer too when I can't wait.
As always I appreciate the coffee shout out. Thank you
Excellent review of your finishing methods. I like the dark 'stain-wash' example. From my (long past) model railroading years, I also make stain starting with dry artists pigment powders. Lots of flexibility too. Good stuff. Thanks.
I like using Transtint with clear lacquer. I love how fast lacquer dries and sprays really well.
I love natural understated finishes, but I also love a well executed crazy one too. The pinnacle being guitar tops. PRS and Mayones are 2 of my favorites. Would love to see you try to recreate those techniques.
Good vid, I like the depth of color idea. They call that a candy color in auto painting, it didn't dawn on me till you mentioned it that we could do that in woodworking. Thanks for the reminder.
This was so informative Erik, thanks man!
As a young kid, I always colored furniture for my dad. He had about 10 powders in tins. My job was to match the top he stripped to the other wood. We never had stains, so didn't use them. Oddly I was really good at it, so Dad never did it himself, he would wait until I came home from school. Always have a sample off cut to see the color, but it is completely adjustable. Even a popsicle stick will give you a good idea. Then after topcoat, if the color is too red, you go to the opposite side of the color wheel. Tint the topcoat very slightly green. Too yellow? add purple. Go very easy, you can always add more. Error on the "not enough side" at first. Toner is nothing but a tinted topcoat. Often there are various species of wood on the same piece. This way, you can get the colors perfectly equal and it will look like all the same wood. With poplar, you can always "pop the grain" to get it to take more "stain". Everything is adjustable and you have complete control, NO excuse not to have perfect results. It's nothing like using a stain directly out of the can.
I'm just an amateur woodworker. I've done a couple of things to my projects in the past. The first was when we renovated our kitchen I wanted to have the baseboards and window casings match the cabinets. So I went to the manufacturer of the cabinets and purchased a can of the stain they used for the cabinets. The second thing I've done when I want to match a stain to something existing is I've gone to a local paint and stain store that custom mixes stains. I give them the piece that I want to match and a piece of the bare wood and they mix it up for me.
So good!!!! Freaking love this streak of videos you are on..
You can also use water based colour to stain wood and apply an oil finish afterwards. Guitars makers do this all the time, it's just a two step process. Stain, sand, stain again, burnish wait 24hs and apply the top coat (oil or water based)
Yes indeed! And it's obviously a time tested method 👍
...... Thank you.... It was a great video. I don't grasp everything you've explained but it does open up more avenues for me. However, i think for me, at this point in life and my very meager will, I'll have to stick with big box stain for the present. Thank you again though for giving a great presentation.
Great information and I love all your work
Red mahogany or golden oak are the only 2 that I would use at big box stores. I use them on the exact wood species and the results are pretty good.
Oooh, alchemy! Very helpful, thank you!
Great Video, I have a much better understanding of dyes and stains now!!
Worked in a commercial shop, custom pieces were often matched to something existing in the room. I was the one doing the material planning so had to send the samples for approval. Not sure why I ever sent them because they were always perfect, even when wood species wasn't even close. They used dye always but you have to be very good, it is less forgiving. I ate lunch with one of the guys who did the expensive stuff every day, he was awesome. I don't always use dye but I have but often I take the easy way out and use premixed.
I am the dumbest person in the room. And you just taught me some very valuable lessons. I learned a lot! Thank you Eric. I love your channel.
I started testing mixol pigments based off online reviews. I want to test transtint too, but it's a bit more expensive (bigger bottles). It has been a game changer so far! A big part of it for me too has been developing my base. My next step is to pull the oil out of my base, replacing it with ethanol and water. This should allow me to do glue ups of contrasting stained pieces. Right now I'm working on stuff in the rustic farm style. I'm staining oak to a walnut color, and doing a whitewash stain to contrast it. I'm also doing similar stuff in natural maple, with a weathered greywash to contrast it.
Oh ya forgot to mention. My stain smells like oranges too! It's also quite healthy, being made from hospital ingredients (isopropyl 99%), food safe orange oil solvent (d-limonene), and water! The wood shop never smelled so good! Oranges, cedar, pine, and oak!
Excellent video, Eric. Great information will be using one of these techniques. Enjoy your week!!!
Glad it was helpful!
I just needed this! I want to darken my oak project, but I sincerely dislike stain. So at the perfect time 😀 Thanks mate!
I’ve finished a couple of guitar bodies. Water based brown or black dye goes on first, then I sand it back so that the “fur” with the dye gets removed. That really pops the grain. Then alcohol dyes to get whatever look I’m going for. Finally a subtle toner gives the finish depth. It also gives me an opportunity to tweak the final color of the finish. Use test panels and go through your entire planned finish process on each test sample. Measure and take notes. Use the color wheel to guide you in adjusting dyes to “get the red right.” (I don’t know why but getting red right on wood is a bear.)
I had completely forgotten that guitar finishers use toners to get that deep startbust look. That's a great point. Thanks,
Startburst? It's called sunburst. Stringed instrument makers employ a whole range of techniques to get the effect they want. A violin is almost white before it's finished. The terms used seem to have changed over the last fifty years. What's now called dye used to be called stain. Stain didn't used to be a coloured finish, it was just something to colour the wood before a clear finish coat was applied. @@ENCurtis
Blessings, Eric; thanks for explaining that. It was helpful. Years ago, an old-timer told me about Van Dyke Crystals to restain an old oak chest of draws I was restoring at the time. It was useful. When I had finished, you couldn't tell the old finish from the new. Apparently, it's what the old English carpenters used to stain oak. Cheers from Western Australia.
Haven't heard of em. I'll have to check it out! Thanks.
Great video. Informative AND entertaining. Thanks!
I'm not a rocket surgeon but I can see already this is a superior approach to attaining proper wood finishing.
I like your name. It makes me want to snap my fingers and tap my toes 😊
I watched the other video about the 5 youtube tips that professionals hate today and stain was the only one I used. So of course I had to watch this video. I done the toner method before on a guitar I was making. Everything else, I usually use stains. After watching this, I still plan on using stains. The reason is simple. I am a hobbyist and price is an issue. I use reclaimed wood or free wood I can get locally. The same goes for stains. Most of the stains I have I got for free. I do apply a finish over my stains because I want to preserve the color and finishes add to the richness of the wood. Stains are not accurate in the color but I can reapply if I want it darker. Because it is preexisting, I don't have to try to make my own color or try to match a previous batch. It is just easier. However, I will use what I learned here. I am always striving to learn more.
I like your laid-back style.
Toner is definitely what I use most! Ive been worling in a finishing shop for 6 years now and did custom furniture for 10 years before that.
Love the coffee cup!
Thanks for this!!! Lol, I've been waiting for this. I'll try to find the walnut credenza video too.
Really good information, thank you!!
This was excellent!!!! Thank you!
Great video but beyond my needs. Thx
Very informative!. Thank you.
Great info and I wish I had seen your video last week before I bought two bottles of the Mixol and tried unsuccessfully to add color to my oil-based polyurethane. Failed just as you pointed out and now I know why!
Great info Eric thank you, thank you!
There is a channel John's Furniture Repair. She restores old furniture for clients and her color matching for old colors is pretty amazing. She doesn't specifically teach staining but you can pick up some things.
That's an excellent resource. What professional finishers do is nothing short of alchemy in my opinion.
Trina (sp?) is a master of "toning" - she usually uses spray toners but she has one heck of an eye for making things match and look good. Between Tom Johnson and "John's Furniture" I've learned a lot. Personally - I hate finishing and am therefore not meticulous or patient enough, but just learning that color does not have to go on first - it can be added to finished 'film' coats (toner.. "Toning") was a game-changer for me. And it's great that it's reversible.
Great advice, opened my eyes to the possibilities ahead. Was gifted a bunch of aniline "Mohawk Co." dyes I've never used, but I will now. My most looked forward test will be on Cherry, a wood that blotches and is hard to work around, and then I will have the chore of gifting all those Stains and Gels I've accumulated. If you have any advice for a 72 yr old retired wood worker in a small garage workshop, please feel free to send it. I'm really proud of my Roubo styled workbench where I build split-top
Thank you. Great video
I was wondering how to warm up the curly maple panels I'm making to pair with my walnut frame and the TransTint dye might be perfect! Thank you for the insight!
Great info…..interesting personality.
I am 76 years old, and I remember my father making the most beautiful furniture in the world, residential and commercial, and he always used the dyes first, which he mixed, then sanded,
Hahahahaaa just discovered your channel bro 😂😂it's fun n informative ...i actually had some torginol " a brand of paint here in Guyana" red oil paint that was settled in its canister so i decided to open it up and all the oil was floating on top ,i scooped it up and decided to apply said oil onto a speaker box i was working on. Turned out pretty neat looking,it really made the grains pop . A fun experiment 😂😂😂
I have to say nice to see you using paint. That is my biggest stain i use due to the fact that i can get a larger variety of colors. And i know you showed oil based paint, but you can use water based also
I saw you using a mixing container that had the Total Boat logo on it. I've used their penetrating epoxy to restore the wood slats on three park benches for a non profit art center. That stuff is an amazing product for restoring and hardening old wood. It's a very messy job though. I refinished my kitchen table by adding dye to my finish but I just put straight clear finish after that first coat. I wish I had seen this video before doing my table. It looks okay but it would have looked a lot better if I had seen this video first.
Toner is really important in dialing in color matches in antique restorations, either for coloring repairs or when part of a piece requires refinishing. Plus, toner is reversible by removing the finish coat. I highly recommend watching the Thomas Johnson Antique Furniture Restoration channel. What he accomplishes with different coloring techniques is amazing, and he explains exactly what he's doing at every step.
Been using WD Lockwood since early 2000s. Great company in NYC, small business to support and the dye transparency is unmatched. I used Lockwood dyes to stain a maple floor charcoal grey and there was zero splotchiness. I learned about them from Woodweb along time ago when forums were the only resources for knowledge. I am glad someone else knows about them!
Been using WD Lockwood since early 2000s. Great company in NYC, small business to support and the dye transparency is unmatched. I used Lockwood dyes to stain a maple floor charcoal grey and there was zero splotchiness. I learned about them from Woodweb along time ago when forums were the only resources for knowledge. I am glad someone else knows about them!
Thanks. I’ll check it out. I want to learn this so bad.
Damn…good video. I have to admit, I haven’t ever used dyes. I’ve had a a bottle of trans tint in my cart for a while and haven’t pulled the plug. I now have the confidence to try it out. Thanks brother.
Totally worth diving into. They're a game changer in my opinion.
There are oil soluble aniline dyes available in the US. You can buy many shades of shellac and further dye shellac with Transtint. And Rubio makes water-based stains that are compatible with hard wax finishes like Rubio Monocoat (which doesn’t work with other stains or dyes. Lots of options!
Good info!
Hey, I just used golden oak stain for a set of Dutch doors I made for a daycare
Thank you! Perfect timing for me as I’m about to finish my first large oak dining table with your finish mixture, and now I may add a toner instead of using a wipe on box store gel stain that I tested last night. Keep it coming!
Heck yeah! Play around and experiment!
Well done
Just to mention one other choice; If you have crappy wood, you can seal it with shellac or very thin varnish, and then use the toner over the sealed surface. That way you avoid any blotching that often occurs with pine or poplar or certain other woods. A lot of furniture is finished this way and it's fine. Try it. It's what the pros do.
I can see this being useful to match an existing antique or something, but 9 times out of 10 for new work, the pre-mixed stain is going to be easier, more consistent, and repeatable.
A small scale really helps in color consistancy. If you measure out your additives you can replicate the color as needed. I have found that even off the shelf stains can have a pretty good amount of variation in color from can to can.
Damn that was informative!!!!! Gracias brother!
Excellent video and very informative. A lot of the stuff that you did there. I’ve already experimented with, but I just need confirmation of what I suspect is shellac that you have in that jar you call finish. You add the transtint that you have mixed with acetone I believe, and therefore to be a compatible solvent in the jar I believe it is shellac, but you never revealed that. I’ve done this very toner that you referred to but I’m not crazy About working with slack because it gums up very quickly as you apply it with a rag. I’m interested in your thoughts.
First of all, love your work. One question: What is in your finish mason jar? You just all it your finish but what is that liquid? Thanks.
Agree!
Appreciate you!
Curtis, I seriously don’t understand why you don’t have a million subscribers bro! Fantastic video man! Can’t wait to meet you at WBC!
Thanks brother! And likewise!
The wait is finally over! Thank you. I’ll likely stick w/ “no color,” but I can see myself opting to add depth to certain species. Thanks for the overview on how it’s done. It was worth the wait.
Great video! Dyes are actually transparent, hence the name "transtint" while a pigment blocks light. So the only reason a dye solution would "soak in" better is the vehicle or base that its in allows that. The clarity comes from the transparency of the color used.
Pigments are also insoluble in the solvent they're in, so they sit on the surface of the wood, while dyes are dissolved, so they soak into the wood. When something dissolves in a solvent, it breaks up into individual molecules, which are so small they soak easily into wood. At the microscopic level, pigment is like rocks, while dye is like colored liquid.
Thanks, this was very helpful! Do you recommend using a wood conditioner before using dye?
Ive been using mixol in an oil finish with great success. My oil finish is cut with d-limonene, for a solvent, might be why? Also, i didnt love how fast it mixed in. So i tried using a dash of isopropyl as a starter with good sucess. Acetone would be a last choice for me due to cost. I may run a test to see if it works that much better. I only use a teeny bit like you, everything is worth testing!
Perfect timing! My son asked for my help staining a guitar he made and I pulled up your video.. super helpful!!
If the samples you to use are agreed upon, it works just fine. Grain seal is important though. It helps keeps the cost down on some larger pieces using ready-made. . I always makes sample per species chosen if I cannot convince them to not stain. I’ll add a coat of shellac with toner if needed. Another thing I do is add more “binder” the stain itself. I’ll do 1/3 additional binder (blo) to the stain color blend.
very interesting topic; thank you for closing with why you use them. I have a question about the ink: could you use other inks? Is it important that the pigment be waterproof in normal use?
Thanks for the video Eric great information especially for new woodworkers. Using big box store stain on wood is like staining with a Hershey bar. I fume my projects to bring out some amazing color that is naturally in the wood then I finish with a clear oil base product. Would you be interested in making a video to show how fuming with ammonia is actually done? The wood takes on a color that is hard to believe. If you haven't tried it give it a shot, once you do and see the result you may never pick up a bottle of dye again, I know I didn't.
Great stuff
Great video! 🤯🤯🤯
Interesting take on "toner" use. I'm retired, owned a 20 man shop making commercial work. Offices, medical, retail, restoration. Avoided kitchens. Whatever was specified by the designer is what we tried to provide. High $$ conference rooms were typically paneled with sequence matched veneer panels that were custom laid up for the job. Since a given log will only yield so many prefect pieces of veneer, the finishing process needed to make the variations minimally apparent. That's where toning came in. (Finishes came in 55 gallon drums and were pumped to pressure feed HVLP guns.) We generally started with a wash coat of sealer. That prevented some of the color variations that are due to differing absorption of the finishes due to grain orientation. Many of the colorants used were Sherwin Wms Universal colorants (ultra fine ground pigments that acted almost like a dye, - red, green orange, yellow, browns, black...) Many dyes tend to fade so we avoided them if possible. The first color coat was mixed with a stain base (no color of its own) and a colorant. A seal coat of the finish was applied. At that point the finisher could compare the approved finish sample to the work. A common issue was sapwood looking different. The next operation was using a small gravity feed HVLP cup gun or an airbrush plus hand held shields, the colors were matched in the lighter areas to the main body. If there were little dark spots those were colored in with colored pencils made for the purpose or a fine artist brush. Two top coats with a light sanding between. The panels were fully dried and stacked in sequential order for shipping. The panels had labeled backs that showed the sequence # and location of each panel on a room diagram. All the moldings had to match also. I should note that the finishing products we used came though the industrial divisions of the suppliers and many of them are not available @ retail. We also used some waterborne finishes. They require different skills but can be excellent. Grain filling is another technique that can enhance open grained wood. Be careful, use protective gear, use a spray booth if at all possible, store finishes in a fire protection cabinet. Keep, up to date, fire extinguishers near exits. If you are commercially finishing use the free technical services of the suppliers.
good info. Thanks
@ENCurtis - Love your videos. They’ve been so helpful. I could use your expertise for something. I am using ambrosia maple for decorative pieces in our newly remodeled bathroom. I am trying to determine what finish to use. Something that won’t smell up the bathroom but will also protect against steam in the air. I tried a water-based finish on a scrap piece and it did a horrible job at bringing out the grain and color. I would appreciate any ideas you have. Thank you.
If I need to color wood, I usually use ‘Fiebig’s Leather dye’ It’s alcohol based and you can mix it, for end-finish i use a wax based finish - Pipemakers using leather dye too for tobacco pipes
Hello. First of all, thanks very much for sharing so many great tips and peaks into your business. Please clarify for me what you mean or are using as your "wood finish" in your Toner mix. Thanks again.
It’s not only the video, but it’s also the chat that comes out. The rest of the story. 😊
nice. Now talk about the witchcraft of matching an existing color. Example heartwood vs sap wood in cherry or when you have to make a repair to an already finished piece (of course you did not make so you don't know the mix). I did enjoy the video. will try the layering in the finish.
I just by General Finishes dyes, stains and top coats - all in water based formulas. Easy peasy. No hassle. But thanks for trying with your video.
Love your videos! Question on your example using oil paint in poly... You mentioned the poplar part of your project was painted first. What's the advantage of adding tinted poly over the paint? As opposed to clear poly? Or really poly at all over paint? Sorry, that turned into multiple questions! 😬