The Biggest Mistake You’re Making in Helldivers 2 - Running Away
When you're playing higher difficulties in Helldivers 2 have you ever felt like you're constantly overwhelmed? That the game is just throwing way too many big armored enemies at your squad to deal with, so you have to constantly run from objective to objective to survive?
The funny thing is, the reason your team is overwhelmed is precisely because you're running away, especially against the Terminids. This is going to be a tough pill to swallow for a lot of Helldivers. But the reason why running away looks like a good idea is that very few people understand how the game's patrol, alert, and enemy spawn system works, and it's screwing everyone over.
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*Time Stamps*
00:00 This Isn't Bot Propaganda
01:34 How Detection Actually Works
06:22 Alerts & Patrols
08:52 Lets Talk Tactics
12:53 Prevention is the Best Medicine
15:20 When Should I Run Away
17:22 Dispense Some Liberty
#gideonsgaming #helldivers2
The large number of comments about the video mostly being on difficulty 7 is making me reconsider if I should bother with more guides. Most of the video is from difficulty 7 missions because that's the majority of what gets played in my group due to varying levels of skill, and commitment. I do play 9, but I don't get to choose how often I play it because I'm not forcing newer players into it for the sake of taking footage. Furthermore, my friends are my friends, they aren't employees. I'm not going to force them to do specific things with me on the hardest difficulty of the game, which already requires tight coordination, just for the sake of me taking specific footage. The reason why the guide is more generalist than specific is because it applies to all difficulties. The entire premise of the video is one of exponential threat. If you get overwhelmed on 7 because you aren't killing off your enemies and are attracting several heavies from nearby POIs. It's going to be much worse on 8 and 9. Breaking aggro without using your team as an unwilling scapegoat is also more difficult on 8 and 9. Also, has anyone else noticed some of the enemy changes? Bot Scout Striders, and Hulks straight-up sprint if they detect a Helldiver that is far away now. The playstyle I propose is being reinforced by the devs. The biggest difference between 8 and 9 as opposed to 7 is that coordinated loadouts are much more important. You can be a bit more loose on 7. But on 8 and 9 you need answers to every enemy type, and everyone has to cover the person with the answer to the current situation.
Me and my buddy worked our way up to 9 immediately and kept playing on it. Once we had learned to deal with armor we were crushing it as a duo relatively easily. We eventually switched back to 6 or something to do some farming. Proceeded to get our asses handed to us on repeat for like 5 missions. The enemy composition is different and we were way overequipped for big boys. I'm still honestly not sure 9 is always objectively harder, depending on the mission, ordinance and your playstyle. This was the best helldivers 2 video I've seen so far and the only one I've watched in it's entirety. Most of these concepts I had vaguely grasped from playing, but you did a bunch of concise testing and demonstration in the video that I had been meaning to confirm the exact behavior of myself. Even people who -just read the title- err I mean, are in disagreement with your conclusions should find the information legitimately useful.
I totally agree that the advice in this guide is not only more important as you go into higher difficulties, but there are just WAY too many people who think they are John Helldiver when they go on a solo campaign to complete objectives. And I get the frustration of seeing your squad get wiped or uncoordinated at difficulty 6+. Difficulty 6, in my experience, is where rage quits become more frequent than not. To the point where I'm just sort of okay with it. You definitely go further when you use strategy over brute force, but standing your ground is better than cowardice. A tactical retreat needs to be "tactical". You need EMS smoke. You need Shield Relays. If you stand your ground, you need firepower, and you should ALWAYS have firepower. You should have the hammer, and the chisel. Plan for retreat, plan for fight. Plan for disaster. Plan for success. This guide is teaching players to work together, and opening doors to actually enjoying the game and fights. I'm getting better, but I am definitely returning to this guide whenever I feel down, to remind me what democracy means.
Please don‘t let the whiners discourage or annoy you. I searched a lot on KZhead for guides and in my personal opinion this was the best and most beneficial video that I found so far. Thank you for your work, effort and this video. I really appreciate it.
@@Aflay1 we can play on 9 if u want anytime brother, i like coordinating, being stealthy, even I know a way to disengage or maximise stratagems usage efficiency
I have the feeling that most of the people who disagree with you in the comments did not watch the video and only read the title.
"Helldivers do not retreat; they are performing a flanking maneuver by running around the planet to get behind enemy lines."
This completely ignore the fact that both patrols and spawned enemies despawn after a shockingly short distance. If you run, and only run, you'll find yourself in a good position to get back to your previous spot, now clean of enemies. By standing ground, you'll only lose valuable resources. Not only this, but since patrol path close to you, standing ground means that all patrol spawned are likely to get triggered, especially if you happen to stand in a patrol crossroad. If you run, only those in the direction of your running may get alerted. Simply stay away from POI and patrol when runining, and when necessary
this is really noticeable while playing automatons missions. if you run enough then youll see no one is shooting at you. this way you could get back to your objetive and repeat. people want this game to be like Rambo. but is a militar game, where you should use strategies to fight agains the foes, and not jus stand there killing everything (and you could, but youll need teamwork for that). also, people just dont play automatons, they whine about chargers and bests, but the real problem in Helldivers are the hulks. those thing could one shot vile titans from a mile.
Yeah this entire video doesn't really work. With looking at radar you can pretty easily just lose any big horde and easily cheese stuff by running away.
I think u may have missed the details mentioned after 15:30 It addressed ur point in detail In my opinion, there are no rules u must 100% follow. The purpose of either standing ur ground or fleeing is to ensure survival and completing the mission. Use ur head to choose when and wut to do
Enjoy running from your 5 bile titans and 12 charges then.
@@hotpenguin607 Indeed, rigidly following a rule never works, it is a good point. I mostly argue that running is a very valid strategy when done right and will yield better result than trying too hard to hold your ground for nothing; not that you should never fight!
There is a difference between running away and giving ground. The Helldivers are NOT frontline units and do NOT have to 'hold the line at all costs'. There should be no single bit of terrain you should refuse to give up (with the exception of extraction). We simply do not have the numbers or fortifications to 'stand our ground' unlike our enemies. You are a Pathfinder. Your advantage is mobility. Hit and then fade. Then attack again from another angle. Always advancing is the wrong answer. Always be FLANKING.
I've noticed that with flanking that bots just laser know your location like they can see through cover and walls and rockets, predictive fire make them primary targets.
@@grimblankjustblank4316 Naw you can break LOS on them and they can be confused as well. But the thing is their melee units, the Commissar in particular, just magically speeds up somehow to keep visual track of you. If the bots always seem to know where you are, odds are you're being tracked by a Commissar, melee trooper, jetpack raider, or Beserker that suddenly acquired the powers of Speedy Gonzales to chase you down and keep a visual eye on you.
This right here, sounding like you played the first game too
I don’t doubt you’ll need to hold your ground for objectives. But guerrilla warfare does seem to be the message of the game. On high difficulties mainly Impossible or Helldive I usually circle the outposts bombarding it with stratagems behind cover while avoiding patrols using my radar and it has worked for me, using either autocannon or the Spear If I have to fight I would kill enemy units as fast as I can, I usually have an easier time doing it on terminids than the robots especially on Helldive. Despite that im usually objective focused while the rest of the team handles whatever they see fit. I also agree with the statement that we aren’t frontliners. But this video does give some good points I’ll consider. For bot drops and bug breaches I check the map to see how many there are but in most group cases we attract more patrols even if we are in the same “zone” as we were in before. Sure it could have been stray shots and or stratagems but seriously I’ve had patrols spawn in front of me even damn hulks and bile titans just to force me into combat. Admittedly I do run from bot drops and bug breaches on high difficulties just to save time and reduce trouble for objectives and despite what the video says this method also works, at least for me. Yea sure I’ll help when I can but if there’s too many casualties or if the fights taking too long then I will leave the area. Getting kills is nice but play the objective, every time. That wins wars. (Edit) The guy was on lvl 7 difficulty, it’s easier to handle NPCs and their heavy armor counterparts as they have lower numbers and health or resistance.
@@omarmejia7609 Ah the Lure and Strike. Someone 'baits' out as many defenders as they can for an infiltrator to slip in while the bait get chased for an easier time and then joins in the chase killing the enemy as they pursue. You walk the Pathfinder well indeed.
Everyone wants to play like it's the Starship Troopers movie without remembering how well that didn't work.
Then they run in an uncoordinated rout without any attempt at covering fire
I agree I found falling back and covering really worked
I'll go out in a blaze of glory 💪😎
The movie even show multiple segments how badly that can fall apart. XD This game is a firepower assessment + ddr game, can your group smash the hoard and clear area to complete objective? Yes, go for it. No, maybe wait a bit longer so stratagems are off cooldown and everyone is topped off. Got a massive death ball rolling your way and not enough fire power in your team to deal with it? Congrats, for the useless stocks you spend while not running away, and hopefully those are necessary sacrifice.
True
There’s a lot here that’s “right in theory but wrong in practice.” Especially when dealing with groups of people who, uh, let’s say “may not always be acting optimally, all the time.” 1. You try to clear enemies on higher levels but you just can’t do it quickly enough for whatever reason. You don’t have the right combination of weapons, or people aren’t good enough at using them, etc. ANY bug can call another breach. If ONE tiny bug is behind a rock and your team doesn’t see him fast enough, you get a continuation of an endless cascade of bugs that are now spawning 15 chargers and 15 bile titans. 2. Unless your team is terrible at running and I do mean TERRIBLE, you should be able to consistently break line of sight and lose all aggro, quickly. Literally just run next to rocks and it blocks the pathing of all terminds INCLUDING stalkers. 3. Killing enemies gives you NOTHING. This is the biggest oversight in this video and frankly in Helldivers play, especially when we are talking about game mechanics and playing “as intended.” You get ZERO xp, it doesn’t help you finish the objective. It certainly doesn’t give you upgrade mats. I can’t think of a way to more heavily discourage a behavior. There’s a lot more here that seem to me to be really clear problems with fighting enemies all the time, (running out of ammo, running out of time, etc,) but I’ll just end by saying this may be a good option, if you can accomplish it. I just don’t think it’s realistic. I think you need to go with whatever tactics your squad seems to be capable of accomplishing- in reality, not just in theory, or according to math in one very optimal setting.
1. Bugs can cause other bug breaches, but the *Patrol Units* (that can materialize out of thin air in front of you) also have a set respawn timer depending on the difficulty that is usually the reason why your group will find themselves in a fight that is out of control. 3-4 Helldivers on almost any difficulty can clear a single breach or drop and the patrols that wander in with enough time to then disengage and move on to the objective. It's much harder for 1-2 Helldivers to do this fast enough. Sure, you can sometimes get away with running away from bugs, as long as you aren't swarmed by 20 hunters that stun lock you, at which point have fun playing diving simulator until your stim animation is cut off at the same time your head is. *Killed by razor sharp claws* 2. On bots you will often lose at least one person to the random one-shot devastator rocket, tank, tower, or other powerful long-range units they have. Draupnir is terrible with its fog and wide-open plains since you can't see them before a rocket erases you from existence, and I run the explosive resistance armor on bots too. 3. Killing the enemies is fun. I enjoy the progression system, but ultimately, I get on this game to dispense liberty upon bots and bugs. There's a difference between tactically re-positioning to support your allies while they fall back, and outright abandoning them to die so you can extract sooner with samples. I've seen just as many missions fail from the slow attrition of the tickets bleeding away as I have units overcommitting to a position where they burn through their tickets in a blaze of glory. Frankly, I have more fun in the second example than I do watching someone run away, only to reinforce me far away from my stuff, only for me to wonder why I'm overwhelmed - oh wait, checked my map and that player has disengaged a winnable fight again for no reason at all. With all that said, this relies on an integral understanding of your team composition by everyone in your unit, and good enough cohesion that you can deal with the threats promptly. This all falls apart if you encounter several of an enemy type that your unit isn't properly outfitted to kill quickly, but good teams I drop with can kill a small handful of elites and titans before we need to fall back. There are just times where the situation is FUBAR and the best option IS to retreat, I just don't agree that this is unrealistic, and I'd agree with the premise of the video - You should usually stand and fight.
I can consistently coordinate a bumbling group of randoms on 8 to stand and fight. Sometimes it doesn't work, but more often than not it does.
@@JC-Alanmy counter is this: why stand and fight when corraling and using a single stratagem can delete most of the horde? It seems a waste unless actually standing ground at objectives which's somewhat mandatory. Even at evac I find it's so much easier for my team if I run loops around it, aggroing all hordes to me for my team to hit on the flank, or get that juicy airstrike that streaks along the whole line of enemies I created. Automatons, bc range, prevents this strat from being as effective. So I understand standing ground against them, especially bc terrain such as cover is much more valuable to defend, and running out of cover spells death.
What you mentioned isn't at all contrary to what I said, since it relies on your teammates being *present* What I'm referring to is, again, not squads that tactically re-position in fights, but instead, the player(s) that completely disengage(s) and runs to the other side of the map while teammates are overwhelmed in a perfectly winnable engagement.@@will.roman-ros
@@JC-Alan gotcha. That sounds like a communication thing. Some players may be unaware of others skills and/or stratagems (even if they're displayed) making the line blurred: as to what's winnable vs not. I agree.
You know what's worse than a half assed retreat? A half assed stand.
A half-assed anything is going to be ineffective. A half-assed last stand would arguably be more fun, however.
Never half ass two things. Whole ass one thing.
@@GideonsGaming Unless you wanna be that guy you aren't wrangling 3 other players to do leapfrog maneuvers and "fighting retreats". No one wants to play with the guy that demands everyone sticks together and fights every spawn until the vibes tell you to run anyways. It's true that you want to deal with the problems as they come up, shooting behind you while you run is a great way to deal with hunters. But it's a lot better to do the "I"m pinging here, this is what I"m going for, help if you want" when playing with strangers rather than being an armchair general insisting that you need to play this very specific way because a youtuber said so.
@@TheMovieCavenot to mention; we aren’t running away, we’re just not fighting 2 bile titans, 4 chargers, 30 hunters, 30 scavengers, 20 shriekers, and 8 stalkers over the 2 common samples and 1 rare sample with 2 ammo cans lying around. we’re getting to next obj to call in a resupply and stand our ground at the artillery site to give us the edge or hitting main obj.
@@TheMovieCave That´s the only way if you´re not skilled enough to suppressPatrols before they call a breach. But if you do, you better not waste everyones time by trying to run away forever and have to take a detour in order not to realert the horde you drag behind you. It´s just dumb. Kill the Bugs, be done with it, then advance. And don´t start fights you can´t finish without your team.
The fact that the game doesn't teach you all these mechanics, is extremely fitting to the setting of the game.
extremely annoying.
@@noneofyourbusiness4133extremely immersive!
I love when you have to figure out mechanics like this after playing for longer you get better and can share knowledge with your team…..
I might be delusional here, but from what I can recall. Absolutely all games that came out lately that have been a banger, have been without tutorials for the mechanics other then how to press button 1 then 2
but is it fun? that is the first question that should be asked, this is a game.
Running away is very effective, especially when your team of randos insists on shooting at every enemy whether they are aggroed or not and you want to get the objectives done.
Different tactic . What you basically described , is having 2 squads - the distraction squad (that is very loud and draws almost all patrols and alerts of the map) and a objective squad (that uses 1st team to deal with targets with minimal risk of bug breaches) . And yeah , with randoms (a specially that dont have mics) , its often devolves into that
@@shadowkhan422k i l l t h e m a l l
Sorry
This. I feel like the AI understands who is trying to spam kill and who is trying to do objectives. Which is why my goofy friends are giggling at green explosions while I try to push through hordes of foes that leave them alone.
Exactly! That’s what I do every time I play with randoms. I get the least kills, sure, but I also do all the main objectives and side objectives, as well as destroy half of the outposts and do a good chunk of the sample gathering. Meanwhile the rest of the team is busy with patrols. Not that I mind, I like feeling like the stealth operative while everyone else is the distraction.
I dont know man, there a places on the map that work like "crossroads" for any spawned patrol going trough there. If you will decide to fight there, you are up for one of those "endless waves" as they are percieved by community.
If you happen to be in such a place, make a fighting retreat to better terrain. The point isn't to never retreat, it's to not sprint from objective to objective with a trail of enemies chasing you. Those enemies aggro other enemies and you just end up leading additional hordes to the objective you need to complete.
except I've pissed off patrols, ran past PoIs with the patrol chasing me, and the PoI enemies don't react until you fire upon them or fire within a certain distance of them. the AI is quirky, that much is for sure.
Yes turning a simple mission into a helldive
I'm reporting the rampant cowardice in these comments to my Democracy Officer.@@GideonsGaming
They really should make it to where nothing spawns within a certain rang of your group it would stop this problem and stop them from litterally popping in infront of you which is funny but terrifying when a charger just pops up right next to you
Devs confirmed that stalkers can smell you at close range they dont need to see or hear you.
On Helldive the fastest way to clear waves of tanks and hulks is to move away and let them despawn. Standing your ground can easily turn into a 5 minute or longer running battle that accomplishes nothing.
"Fastest" eh? If you have a decent position and a decent loadout, your team can clear a drop in about a minute. If u run, sometimes it caan be good, but not if u need to be there for an objective, not if you need to run by uncleared areas, and not if you dont have hills or something to quickly conveiently break line of sight with as a group or someones gonna get picked off and loae their kit and samples. The game is designed sos that enemies despawn when they are supposed to be no longer relevant. Sure dont fight every spawn, especially not unnecessarily. But if the reason u run is because u cant fight it and therefore would enter deathspiral, it means u are ill equipped, uncoordinated or are playing too high difficulty
May I introduce you to the auto cannon. Two shots to a hulk faceplate. Three shots to the back of a tank. There are also loads of strategems that will drop them on the spot. If heavy armour is where you need to be, it's faster to just deal with it. If it's not, ignore it.
@@sadghfajdslhgsadklgk running while checking radar for where u running work fot me most of the times, it's easy and quick to get out of line of sight of enemies and despawn them in chaotic situations than clearing them out.
@@dennislin3883 are you playing alone when you do this or like is pointed out in the video, are you just concerning yourself when you do this? I know it works to avoid enemies, but enemies don't despawn quickly and everyone has to leave. If you want to do everything on the map as a team, it rarely is helpful to run. Only when they drop in where we'eve already left actually. Obviously dodge patrols that won't bother u.
My team has adopted the strategy staying and fighting when we can and then doing leap frogging retreats with covering fire if the fighting gets too much or is taking too much time. It has been working very well for us especially against bots which we fight most of the time.
Thank you finally someone who understands end game!
Congratulations, you have discovered a real life tactic used by the military
@willwhite6628 yep, that's where I got it from IRL. Now, if we can finally get the community to understand how firing lines work and proper cross fire.
@pkkiller_apathy4568 it's just not gonna happen. Not with strangers anyway
@@willwhite6628 I was an 11b so yeah that's where I got the idea to use it in the game. Also, you can use Battle Drill 2A against the bots and it works super well with their suppression mechanic.
"very few people understand how the game's patrol, alert, and enemy spawn system works" proceeds to extol unworkable strategy. Breaking LOS by disengaging is simple and effective.
Yeah the info is good but I disagree with some of the conclusions here.
Man, someone who knows how to properly call a retreat via the Halo method. S' nice to see someone else knows how to organize it properly. To expand on that: a few things to keep in mind: odds are if it's gotten to this point, you've already attracted a sizable group of basic units, not reinforcements. This means that you should not consider escaping as anything more then a chance to regroup, and reestablish control over the conflict. All of the following steps should be done in as short a time as possible, never more then how long it takes to call in a stratagem that could help with reestablishing control: Announce your plans: always let your teammates know if your breaking from typical procedure, whatever it is. Know your exits: typically where you came in from if you've been clearing as you go, but be aware if you've maneuvered around during the current skirmish. Know if they're still clear: check your maps, take a glance at your route, look for any reinforcements. Know who's best geared to hold out: as stated you want the most time possible for the escapees. Know when to commit: If your escape route's compromised or you can't easily make one, if you made a bad call, if the tide starts to turn during your check, or if something unexpected happens, announce when your calling off the retreat And again, Know your cleanup plan: this will likely come back to bite you if you let this be, likely at a mission point that requires you to remain at a singular area for a time. You know, Like extraction. So yea, there's a fine art to doing it cleanly, considering this is an option you want to avoid at all costs. It takes a bit of practice and understanding of your team, as well as a level of cohesion.
I’d say the biggest mistake is staying to fight. Everyone wants to fight every encounter. In Helldive difficulty I literally have to do the entire mission alone half the time. I look at the map and my team is still fighting 100ft within spawn.
The reason why you can do the mission is because of those teammates, it's a win win. You get to do your mission in peace and they get to do what they like, KILLING STUFFs.
actually not exactly, when ur lone wolf from a team it's easier to stealth kill and while ur team can finish off the enemies, you've wasted so much time & resources that could've gone into doing more objectives and samples. If the whole squad retreat that would be the best. Not so difficult to pull off either as u can break line of sight pretty easily.
Nah man, have seen so so many teammates die over and over trying to defend a useless plot of land. Run to objectives and deal with enemies when you get there and keep moving. Running away is a valuable strategy, particularly running to objectives constantly.
This is completely wrong. You should never stand and fight if you don’t have to, especially on Helldiver difficulty. You will get overrun. You will fail. I notice you mainly play on level 7 difficulty here. Standing and fight in Ing level 9 difficulty will spawn too many heavy units that you won’t be able to fight. The best strategy is to fight when you need to; killing enemies at objectives, kill enemies in your immoderate vicinity. Get to the objective do it as fast as possible, and run away. Also, run between patrols. Never aggro or fight patrols. If you break line if sight on enemies, and get a little more distance, they will go to your last known position and stay there. All you need to do is run, get some distance, turn a corner around an obstacle and change direction.
You're unlikely to be overwhelmed by armored enemies on level 9 if you have coordinated load-outs, or at least 2 dedicated anti-armor players, and you take care not to aggro every armored enemy at nearby POIs.
You have no clue or have never played in a balanced team. I have played 280 hours mostly HELLDIVE and played flamethrower for 130 hours pre buff as crowd control… a balanced squad can kill all and everything with 0 need to kite the worst that could happen would to be forced to reposition but with the addition of stun grenades this probably won’t be necessary anymore. Matches were your fighting like man and end matches with 3-5k bug kills as a squad are the most fun and intense matches..I know kiting is meta because it’s basically just broken and allows you to play solo but it’s also very very boring basically 90% of people play this game just to run away xD Anyway it’s possible and all of he stratagems can be used in builds in balanced squads that Play together I had more then enough 100% runs with 0 deaths or runs were we stood our ground even on evac with no call ins available. Personally I expect Arrowhead to address the kiting meta soon and make solo perma kite obsolete people are literally finishing matches with barely any stuff killed…
@@harunmahdielmi5498Seems kinda stupid when all that time you spent netting thousands of kills for literally no reason since killing enemies does literally nothing but inflate your kill count that no one cares about anyway, you could’ve been completing several other missions to net you the resources you want for better unlocks… What is actually the point of killing as many enemies as you possibly can in a game that provides no tangible benefit to killing bunches of enemies?
@@Kalashee the point is to have fun ?!
@@Kalashee Killing a shit ton of enemies in a seemingly unwinnable situation is kind of the main draw of the game, it's probably why you picked up the game. I doubt you picked up the game to just run around the whole time. Or maybe you picked up the game thinking it's another thing to "win", but that is equally boring and depressing.
I used to be like that until one fateful mission on the western front. Patrols will be alerted by the sound of fighting leading into “patrol loop” where you have to fight endless horde, wasting tons of time and resources, and even failure on the mission. It can work on Terminids if your team can wipe out “every single one” since almost all of them can call in a breach. This can be extremely hard unless your team can close in on the breach and spawn kill with no additional patrol. For Automatons? Stand your ground if you have a death wish. You are not going to beat 3 dropships without wasting a lot of ammo and stratagems. Learn to cut your losses, splitting in two groups and break LoS. So no, it is much safer to run away, just check you minimap while running and look out for more patrol so you don’t bump into them.
Just run arc throwers I have a group that runs arc thrower with erupter and shields backpack. 3 arcs and a quesar cannon had no trouble with multiple tanks or titans etc.
I try to play like I am playing Tom Clancy's Wildlands/Badlands picking my fights, using stuff like 500kg or clusters to enter areas clear it with grenade launcher, then using orbital laser to move away from the area I am clearing. My motto is you don't have to fight everything all at once. Its almost like the game tricks you in believing you can take on everything on lower difficulties and so you go into 7+ levels doing so and basically have most of your reinforcements almost depleted because people are dying constantly due to too much to deal with at once when you need to have 500kg, rail precision strike, orbital laser for tougher enemies.
I try to play it like Widlands too, but it simply doesnt work with enemies instantly calling reinforcements and patrols spawning in and zeroing on your position. I hope they add supressed weapons and hopefully suppressor attachements with the supposed gun customization content. That might help with being sneaky, as of right now it just boils down to "dont interact with enemy at all".
@@Ally5141 I say it depends on the type of enemy. it’s very effective in my case with terminids as you just need to break lines of site whereas autos will detect even if you are behind cover. But you can still avoid conflict and pick your battles but you need a bit of a formation/positional strategy to take out better armoured personnel units and using stratagems to take specific targets and quickly taking out the rank and file units.
Is the Cluster Eagle Strike actually good? I ayed a few games today with a group and his Clusters were failing to kill even the smallest enemies sometimes. The Eagle bomb strike seems to work way better
@@prich0382 its good especially at clearing almost anything if you aren’t timing your throws it doesn’t matter if it’s 500kg or laser they won’t do much if you miss.
I haven't played those games, but yes. People play low difficulties like a horde shooter, keep that mentality on higher difficulties.
I find it’s an unending horde if you stick around and get mired. The only way to win harder difficulties is never stop moving and don’t take fights if you don’t have to.
The Problem is you HAVE TO fight Chargers, because you can´t run away from anything while dodging them and they are faster than you.
@@iron_side5674 Lots of options for dispatching them quickly. Ortibal Railcannon, EAT, Railgun, Recoilless Rifle, Autocannon, etc. You have lots of options if working with a semicompetent team. Chargers are only really a problem if you got multiple and a horde of smaller bugs or a bile titan around. Even then, they don’t give me much trouble. Less so if you use shield backpack so you don’t get staggered or tossed around when they do get close. I find bile spewers to be more problematic than chargers.
@@iron_side5674 It's quite viable to escape Chargers in a lot of scenarios using terrain and LOS blockers to break contact. They are *barely* faster than a running Helldiver and have very long post-charge animations. There are definitely scenarios it might be difficult or even impossible, but it is, by and large, an option. I think a lot of this Run vs Fight discussion also has a lot to do with how skilled and how coordinated your team is. If you can clear drops and breaches quickly, fighting will work well for you. If you can't, you're likely to get into an unwinnable scenario of repeated drops and patrols joining, while running out of ammo and strategems. There are also just straight up benefits to keeping moving even if you can deal with the enemies. Every moment holding ground is time not completing objectives. Keeping mobile while keeping the enemy numbers thinned enough (and dragging them into one big conga line can make them very easy to manage with strategems or other explosive weapons) can be very efficient.
You can stick around without getting mired.
did you know u CAN run from chargers, have you even tried making it crash into a rock and break LOS? LOL@@iron_side5674
Id argue a fighting retreat is very effective. You cant JUST run away
There are situations where you can fight through it but a group needs to know when its time to headout.
Those situations are 100% self made tho. Most of the time because of the Misplay discussed in this vid. Or people that absolutely positively need to aggro everything in sight for no reason other than having ammo in their Mag.
No, you don't only fight and you don't only run away. You actually do both 😂
Yeah, this video is dumb. The key to winning Helldive difficulty missions is knowing when to fight and when not to fight. Fighting every single battle will cause a ton of deaths and wasted time.
"Overwhelming numbers" laughs in arc thrower. I let my team keep moving to objectives and shut down the bug breach solo. It'll be a sad day when it gets the rail gun treatment.
Arc thrower can solo nearly any bug breach in the right hands. Just wish they fixed its broken detection so it always at least functions properly.
honestly i dont think they'll nerf it. 1. its hard to use danger close, you simply cant fire sometimes without TKing your friends 2. it has a very hard time hitting close targets 3. it has neat tech that makes it harder to use optimally 4. its finnicky and unique, its good for weird weapons to be more powerful because it gives the game flavor. imagine if the meta was just liberator + machine gun + ammo backpack
So there's a couple of things that I would bring up here. Different patrols have different timers on their alert call ins. So if another patrol walks into you, it can send out another alert creating chains of alerts. Second Noise attracts patrols, so making "noise" be it explosions or gun fire will draw patrols to your position. I have stood and fought many times with an entire group blown all of our stratagems and entire reinforcement budget without ever completing any objectives only to give up and run and then complete the mission as if it was easy mode. The more effective tactic I've found is to run, break line of sight and circle back. This gives you time to call down stratagems reinforce or pick up equipment where as staying and fighting can lead to an excess of deaths due to being overwhelmed. That said if you can silence an alert quickly by using overwhelming force while it's small and immediately relocate, it's much more likely to keep your alert profile low.
The alert timer is universal. The only way you can get a chain of them is if you activate an objective that triggers its own alerts, such as the mining objectives or TCS towers. In fact, the new booster that comes with the cutting-edge warbon actually extends the cooldown timer between alerts.
If everyone grabs a generic loadout thats not specialized at any particular role, yes this happens. If you have someone completely dedicated to clearing a large number of bugs, no it does not. All it takes is literally one person with 2 eagles and a grenade launcher+supply pack combo to efficiently clear out a horde. You can do it in so many ways as well. I've done a suppression role with EMS orbital+napalm, anti tank with railcannon+airstrike+EAT, bug swarmers with eagle airstrike+cluster+grenade launcher+supply pack, and a generic loadout with orbital laser+500kg. Of them all, the generic was the worst of these sets.
@@PerciusLive I am almost exclusively doing quick join missions so there usually is 0 team coordination, or voice comms. It means that I have to be adaptable and prepared to carry the whole team, which means I can only really use a Generic all rounder load out. The general point of the post was that standing and fighting in a scenario with no communication or coordination can lead to just a bunch of time and lives wasted instead of accomplishing anything. By leaving and outrunning/dodging enemies you can regroup, consolidate your efforts on a single front and move quickly from objective to objective instead of waffling.
@@GideonsGamingby 10% from testing
I've seen dozens of squads follow this advice and stand their ground only to drop their reinforcment count, while countless patrols join the fray growing the numbers. In these situations I let them draw all the attention die continually while I complete objectives and extract.
Many teams bring all red stratagems and easily trigger more patrol. Worse they bring 500kg with low fire rate primary, they can't clear a patrol in time if they run into one. Mines is super good for team prefer to run for objectives, but no one use it lol.
sure doing a fighting retreat does risk some deaths but however if you run around the map from enemies you will run your reinforcement timer out really fast and more likely to fail a mission. It's why a group of friends fighting together to take care of a horde with combine arms with guns and stratagems will work out more than group of randoms running around and end left their team behind while aggro more enemies. If you mush run away with ur team to a over whelming horde than do so with the team. Don't run, fall back in a constantly firepower on the enemy.
And as a result you end up making more patrols spawn in due to how spawns work. In other words, you aren't helping you're making the mission harder for everyone else in your lobbies. Good to know that if I ever play with you it's an instant kick from my lobby :) nobody wants to play with a coward in a cooperative horde shooter. You won't be missed.
Helldivers 2 is such a fascinating game. It looks like it just rides modern AAA trends with it being a third person co-op shooter, but gosh does it knock it out of the park. Fantastic video too! I definitely noticed enemies alerting other ones, and I genuinely didn't think to just.. fight before fleeing and making things worse.
Thanks! ❤
In my opinion it's partly because it's very sandboxy. They give players tools and say do with them what you please.
Helldivers 2 is yet another example of why indie games are better than most AAA games.
That is not always true there are ways to escape patrol in high difficulty. The better info would be go undetected by quickly clearing enemys or better steath. Pick your fight so you don't have to waste ammo or better avoid the fight. Stand your ground at objective BUT HAVE A WAY TO DISENGAGE. Plan your escape before starting the fight. You can do this by breaking line of sight and killing off faster enemies first. For bugs kill white bugs first. For hunters run in the direction they are trying to hop towards usually that means there are lower enemy counts in that direction but thay isn't a rule. The smoke plants are king at this run through them. Way to many people run without a plan or checking the map or surroundings. I call EAT at map hellbomb locations so I can run to them and end pursuits.
Ive turned the corner in my scout armor and ran into a chargers butt and it didnt even turn around because i was crouched with the -30% detection buff.
Probably the best armor in the game for solo play.
@@GideonsGaming I like to split off of the group and grab the bonus stuff and meet back up. It's definitely the best solo armor by far.
-30% buff from my testing in helldive solo pure pacifist runs only seems to affect their literal sightlines, you can crawl up and literally touch enemies with both the scout armour and heavy armour etc. It doesn't matter if you are behind them, only infront. Even with their vision it often isn't a dealbreaker for stealth runs.
@@johntravoltage959sight is 80% of alerting
@@johntravoltage959i think the key word here is "crawl". pretty sure if you crouch and walk close enough behind an enemy it will detect you, so it's possible that the scout perk decreases this detection range enough that the charger's fat ass keeps you out of that detection range even when crouching.
I get the point of this, and I think that knowing some of how detection works is useful, but there is a lot more going on with that, like how certain enemies that spawn on objectives work, (can't be distracted, don't move, once aggroed will retain it unless despawned). And past that, I don't think that retreating is a bad option, mainly because of how quickly enemies can despawn, and how limited enemy spawns can be. Splitting the team up at harder difficulties to approach multiple objectives can make it abysmally easy to do entire complete pacifist runs faster than actually doing loud runs (pacifist as in no melee, no shooting, no stratagems, no nothing). because the game cannot spawn enough enemies, and if someone causes a bug breach/bot drop, everyone else is free to do whatever they want with no repercussions. Running is just so much easier and faster, and there are very few enemies that can actually keep up to the point where you can't despawn them (pretty much just stalkers and hunters). Its kind of similar to the issue with the first game, where its quite a boring strategy, it isn't very skillfull, you just need obtuse knowledge and it just breaks the game wide open. I think its genuinely easier to do pacifist helldive over a loud difficulty 1 mission if you just know some bizarre things. I think the best way to learn a lot of this bizarre stuff is just by spending time in the game, without interacting with enemies at all except under very specific circumstances. Go into a mission, and just see what you can do with different enemies, sight/sound etc. but don't attack them at all, aggro one and leave, see what happens. I still don't know too much about bugs but learning about how certain enemies on objectives with the bots actually refuse to move and don't really lose line of sight was a facepalm moment for me that explains so many of the bizarre things I've seen online (enemies shooting at people in stealth from really far away for no reason, stuff like the confusing stratagems alert/distract enemies discussion etc.).
I can attest that a level 5 game with one teammate who keeps trying to fight all the enemies is MUCH harder than a level 9 game with teammates who go silent as much as possible
While I don’t agree 100% with every conclusion in this video, I still found it to be informative and interesting. I appreciate the channels that explore aspects of the game like this that tend to be less covered by most. 👍
if you want to ignore killing and do obj thats fine but youre going to need to do it pretty quick. the new booster that lowers encounter rates reduces the accumulation of enemies. you either need to kill the patrols before they summon more units or find a balance between running and killing.
I don’t run because I think it’s a good idea. I run because I get scared lol. Informative video though, thank you.
Dont be a Traitor Fight Till the END o7 Btw feel huged my Dude
Thanks for watching! ❤
Your honesty is totally refreshing!! 👍
I agree with you. I wish you touched on the heat system, how patrols spawned by it path to where you were when it triggered, also how some patrols actively head towards your current position. At least that’s what I’ve understood. How fighting inside main objectives causes more patrols. How even being split up at main objectives causes more spawns than normal. Also how spawning goes into overdrive once the main objectives are completed. So it’s not necessarily better to only clear holes/fabricators and secondary objectives after the main objectives are completed
id say if that happens, especially against automatons that are just too slow to chase the players, they its that you arent comitting to running enough.And besides, a team that stands its ground every time has a tendency to dry up the clock pointlessly as killing enemies does NOT progress objectives. Also its VERY effective to drop a stratagem to cover your getaway
Yeah, I still remember my first day out in the field, I was lucky enough to come across much higher level teammates who were literally there just to teach new players strats. They showed me how small the alert radiuses were and using grenades and stratagems to slow a chasing horde. I've definitely noticed that timer issue often, I usually just hop in on randoms who don't even think to consider where we are dropping.
Smoke strike does wonders. I never have the space for it but I'd take it over laser
@@MagikarpPower what about the EMS strike? Slow them all so they can't chase you and eventually you break LOS enough to despawn them?
@@DavidSmith-mt7tb yeah that's a solid pick and I've definitely seen ppl recommend it. pretty good for killing hulks as well
This. Whenever I play with people like the guy who made this video we always complete much much less of the map because they cry if you do objectives instead of helping them with the pointless fight they are in.
Wow, thanks a ton for putting together such a well-researched and well thought-out video. I can definitely see more scenarios where I would or would encourage standing our ground armed with some of this knowledge. I will say I think there are a few more factors in favor of breaking contact than have been discussed here. One of the most important is... skill and coordination. If your squad can't consistently and efficiently manage those breach fights, especially if there is a mitigating factor like being low on ammunition, standing your ground is going to cost you more than it saves. Because a mission completed poorly via running is better than a mission failed via casualties. One of the biggest takeaways we had during the first week of play was to get better at recognizing when a situation is deteriorating and make the retreat call before it is too late. You might call "skill issue" on our part... and I don't think that would be an unfair assessment, but what works for one group may not always be best for another. Likewise, if you have *practice and experience* breaking contact or fighting on the move as a team, and perhaps your loadouts are more tailored for it, you will be more effective at it than someone who doesn't do it often. The second major thing is... time. Every second spent holding ground is time spent not completing the objective. Again this is worse if your team can't efficiently clear these battles because it results in even more lost time. If you can keep on the move while keeping the enemy numbers manageable through a combination of breaking contact, drawing enemies into chokepoints for quick destruction via stratagems, and selectively killing problematic targets like Chargers and Titans, you can accomplish a lot without getting bogged down in trying to full clear an area of enemies. In particular at higher difficulty levels once the main objective is complete and patrols increase x4, if I am with a full squad I feel like there will practically always be an alert active until the end of the game, do you find you are able to give yourself breathing room in tier 8-9 games? I... don't agree that splitting up is a game exploit. Only having a single drop at a time makes sense - those are regional QRF forces and they send what is available. Having some people stage a distraction while the others complete the objective should be a perfectly viable tactic, that's the same logic as the Last Stand in this video, although without the necessity of sacrifice. I find making the decision about when and where to go 4-strong versus 3-1 or 2-2 or 2-1-1 to be an interesting one with significant tradeoffs. I don't think people should be railroaded into always sticking close together, which you could argue is already somewhat the case with the increased patrol spawns for separated groups. And maybe this is self-inflicted at this point, but I feel like the train-without-brakes constant barely-managed chaos of smashing an objective and then frantically escaping as a horde descends is... what Helldivers 2 *is* to us. That and it doesn't make sense to me that a special forces team would attempt to hold ground in occupied territory unless there were a specific objective attached. It just feels more natural to strike the objectives with maximum violence of action and then move on quickly before the enemy can consolidate.
Now that I think about this, the system is similar to Helldivers 1. From what I recall, running from a bug breach also does this snowball effect so staying near the breach and clearing it out was actually the better strategy, because in the exact same way that was said in the vid the alert just snowballs if you frag them in tow.
I don't "run away". I fall back to re-establish my tactical advantage
I’m usually the guy drawing the horde away from the objective and my team. Everyone stays stealth and one guy runs in dropping 500kg bombs and raising hell with as much aggro as possible. When the horde is drawn away from the objective and has chased me halfway across the map my team can easily come behind me and take care of business.
This is excellent advice, and I wish these were more common practices. Some spawn points you can just run away from and despawn, but all it takes is for one Helldiver to aggro one set of permanent enemies, and it begins a cascade. Running and gunning can be a viable tactic, but the main point you make in this video that I wish would be spread far and wide is that whatever you're doing, do it coherently! If you're running and gunning, run in a group, gun in a group. If you're standing and fighting, stand and fight as a unit. Cover each other, move when it's necessary, give people space and support to do their roles. Having the entire group scatter in four directions is how Helldives turn into Hell. Coordination cleans up a lot of the chaos people thing is endemic to the game.
I particularly love getting stalked by stalkers and teams do not peel them and do not hunt down the nest.
This is super helpful. I didn't know all the details but generally noticed there are always way to get around the hoard. Just a thing to add. If your team prefer to rush objectives, mines can be super helpful, it stay there forever, usually kill most of the bugs that call bug break, and works as early alert on incoming patrol.
Instead of running away I find circling the encounter area works well. You dont run into new areas to trigger new aggro and still lets you create space
awsome video dude, you earned your self a new follower.
Awesome video Helldiver! Youre giving me NPH vibes with all this intel you have on the bugs. "It's afraid.... IT'S AFRAID!!"
I'm doing my part!
Information about combat status, alert status and line of sight was very useful. Personally I don't get to play with a dedicated group most of the time so my Johnny heldiver is always puffing and wheezing while circling from bug nests
The enemy awareness part is incorrect, enemies that see another enemy get their head ripped off by a diligence even if far enough away that they do not hear you shooting it, will inmediatly go into alert and start a reinforcement call if its not on cooldown, shooting an enemy and them not dying will inmediatly put it in alert causing others to go alert if they see it engaging you, missing shots will cause them to become aware for the first shot if they do not see the bullet directly and try shooting or investigating the place you are, missing a second time will have them go alert however hitting that second shot will most likely also have them go alert, an explosive projectile going off too close to them will have them inmediatly call for reinforcements if possible, however an explosive projectile going of relatively far will have them instead investigate the explosion without being trully alerted, a red stratagem being tossed in line of sight of an enemy will cause them to engage inmediatly. Line of sight is important, breking line of sifht alows you to run as enemies start to go back to searching after 4 seconds, unless they get bugged into soft alert, which happens if you alert an enemy with a stratagem and dont engage it any other way, they will alwqys be heading towards you and "see" you from miles away As of now patrol spawns are bugged so that no matter player count they always spawn at same intervals on all player counts, patrols spawn every 2:45 minutes and that timer gets shorter depending of the amount of fabricators/nests/main missions done up to one-four patrols every ten seconds, standing ground at that point will just lead to getting overrun
Knowing how detection work is huge, TY
My man, if you can hold your ground at an obj, that's the only time to not do a rebounding retreat where you cover each other until you break aggro. Best thing to do is have two focused on crowd control and two for anti armor and if you're not on helldive you can usually do a good 2 and 2 split around the POI so all angles are covered and you clear everything faster, spam EATs or carry a auto cannon. If you have a big breach and it spirals out of control back off and let them come to you, pick a choke point and mow them down before pushing back into your obj or if it's just on the way to the obj go around and flank with your team, most of the times as long as you hit them they'll aggro you and you can draw them your direction while your team works around them and takes them from behind. Lastly, a retreat is sometimes VERY necessary, don't pick flights you aren't prepared for if you're low on ammo or stims, wait for a resupply and your stratagems before pushing on doing things well and pacing your advance through a horde of anything is helpful especially with the bots since they have much more range and will easily kill you out of cover if you're exposed. Remember that movement is key and communication is vital, never run without Knowing what's infront of you. Go spread democracy you beautiful bastards and Godspeed soldier Edit: clear out any bug holes or fabricators around the obj or poi BEFORE advancing to the bigger obj, this will cut down the amount of enemies in the area at once and prevent an endless wave of enemies, this is KEY at higher difficulties if you're having to remain at the obj for a prolonged amount of time such as a ICBM or Artillery obj or egg breeding ground or even large nests or bot strongholds, if you are going into a mission with only a "destroy ____" objective it's a good idea to bring an orbital laser to throw it into the obj and then move away as it won't immediately give away your location more than necessary and wil likely destroy any ships or fabricators and turret towers in the way and afterwards you can easily move in and finish of the rest of the fabricators or bots still in the area
Interesting alert mechanics, thanks for sharing!
It has also been confirmed by Arrowhead's CEO when he played with another KZheadr that certain enemies not only have sight and hearing, but also the ability to smell Helldivers.
11:49 that leap frog strategy is an actual military tactic called “bounding”. Essentially while a squad retreats a few meters/ miles, the other squad lays down covering fire until the first squad is a good distance away to stop and then lay down covering fire for the previous squad.
At first I was skeptical, but the logic makes sense. On further examination alot of my issues with a "stand and fight" strategy comes from my groups insistance on a two teams of two model for the sake of operational brevity. However, there are a lot of situations that two people just don't have enough firepower to blitz through comfortably, leading forever fights that turn controlled retreats into routs that drag you back through a zone full of stuff you've snuck past. Trading operational stability for blind speed has a tendancy to catch up to you. Its just easier for a team of 4 to control a situation. I've heard it said "Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast" not to mention the reduction of strategem redundancy. Maybe a full half of my teams strategems wouldnt need to be Quasar cannon and Shield backpack if we weren’t all trying to reduce the margin for error presented by armored targets and things slipping past the picket line. I'd encourage any team that does a similar split of forces to give moving as a unit a go, and compare how much easier of a time they have. I'm also really curious to hear about peoples experiences wity operational efficiency: is it quicker to handle all of the outposts with overwhelming force, or split them in half and have two teams doing it with moderate force. In my experience, the momentum of a multi-team mission shatters when the first person dies: all your strategems are probably on cooldown, and now you need to retake a corpse with only half the support equipment. If you run, or keep dying, you've lost operational speed and defeated the point of splitting up.
Not 100% sure but i will it here for fellow helldivers, though it applies for the bugs only: If you encounter a patrol, it might be in your best interest to CHARGE at them if you do not have LOS to all bugs in the group OR if you cannot take them out fast. Reason is, if you thin out a group very fast, bugs tend to immediatly call out for help. However, I have noticed if you are close to them more often than not they will try to take you out instead of calling for backup even if most of their group is dead. This has actually saved me a lot of times when low on ammo and a random patrol decided to say hello.
Everybody's mad that their precious "running meta" isn't meta at all. I love it!
And what you're standing there and fighting a useless battle not even at an objective Dying over and over and over and over and over and fucking over is meta?
Any Helldivers veteran from either 1 or 2 will tell you that standing your ground is inviting death. “The enemy hordes are without number. You are not” is a loading screen tip in HD1 that applies just as well to HD2. The only exception is during an objective, and even that should be evacuated if you’re losing reinforcements and have the time to regroup. Standing your ground also risks newly spawned enemies to call for a new wave of reinforcements, which can and likely will get you overwhelmed quickly. Personally, I consider engaging into a bloodbath to be a viable option only as long as it’s used as a distraction for a single squadmember to sneak undetected and complete objectives.
Ministry of Truth: "No helldiver was harmed in the making of this video"
I'm not running away, I'm falling back to a more tactically sound position while blind firing behind me with the secondary
Helldiver's are forward rangers and scouts tasked with weakening enemy positions from behind enemy lines, you should see yourself as a guerilla combatant using mobility and planning to defeat a greatly numerically superior opponent. The only time you should ever be holding your group is if it's a defensive task that you _cannot_ lose. Even the stratagems we have are designed for _mobility,_ either improving your own or hampering the enemies. - Opening a hole through enemy lines with strafing runs and bombardments - Limiting enemy movement with gas and fire strikes that temporarily close off choke points - Ones designed to be tossed in before you run away to cause chaos in the enemy ranks, barrages getting thrown down during a retreat or into a large base/nest. Even the mech's very limited ammo supply is proof that you're meant to drop it in, hit hard and fast, then vacate the area just as the mech is about to die. Try to stand your ground with a mech and you're a dead man. We aren't SEAF infantry, those are the guys and gals with unrestricted access to the big guns, overwhelming numbers, and fortified positions that are tasked to hold their ground. Simply put; there are more bugs and bots in that small section of the planet than you have ammo and reinforcements. If you see a Bile Titan, two Chargers, eight Bile Spewers and a swarm of chaff walking towards you your first priority is maneuvering around them, getting out of their sights, and losing them so you can get back to the objectives. Remember boys and girls; SEAF success is measured in K/D and holding ground, Helldiver's are playing the objective.
People just don't understand HOW to run away from the pain train that's going after them. That's what makes running away ineffective for new players. When you know what to do running is a good option, since it doesn't take much of your resources (including time) to run away.
By far the most helpful guide video on this game I've seen.
In MMORPGs, we call enemies alerting their friends BAF or "Bring All Friends." Sometimes we call it chain aggro as well.
This is actually really good information. Early game at lower levels it's hard to be able to stand and fight cause before level 10 you really don't have much to work with to fight heavily armored enemies. But I've noticed after I made it to level 10 and got more powerful strategems unlocked it definitely became much easier to drop larger enemies
6 min in of this 18 minute video and its THE TEXTBOOK. Brilliantly done a masterclass on enemy group engagement and wave mechanics!
That slow fighting retreat and static frontline is the simplest form of how to deal with swarms. A valuable lesson that I've learned from Helldivers 1 that has served me well in 2 aswell is that the enemies are infinite. And catching a break is something that takes time, you have to earn, and is always short-lived. The more effective strategy is to maintain the situation in a controllable state and carve a path through your enemies towards your objectives. Sure you could fight each horde till their dead and perfectly execute stealth, but it's slow, painstaking, frustrating, and just sucks if you aren't in a fully coordinated team, which most people won't be. You shouldn't constantly retreat, but you also shouldn't be digging in wasting time in fights you don't need to fight for dirt you don't need to win. The fight will have to happen eventually, That is a fact you cannot control. The only thing you control is when and where the fight will be. If a fight starts away from an objective and you know the objective will be a fight anyways, then you carve a path to cover your asses and move the fight to the place where you'll be having a fight anyways. That way you're digging in with a purpose. And even then, don't be too afraid to get mobile, especially now that you don't have to stick together like glue anymore like in the first game. Tango with your enemies, dodge and weave through their numbers, pull aggro and use terrain to manipulate sightlines so you can knead the crowd into the shape you want, then unleash your stratagems to finish them off. That is the kind of game Helldivers truly is, a real horde shooter. You have to embrace the horde and learn to thrive inside the horde. Or in simpler words, stop fearing the horde, that's where you can do your best work if you know what you're doing.
Killing yourself with a left behind hellbomb, wiping a bug horde is one of the coolest things in this game.
Wish more teammates would watch this video. The stay and fight AS A TEAM makes sense, , , in a coop game. Appreciate the video homie.
This makes so much sense. The last few games I played against Terenids felt absurd. But I remember multiple times me and my teammate dissengaged fights because there was only 2 of us. I'd throw a sentry down for us to run away, but the next scout group would see us and pull the rest up behind us. There were so. Many. Stalkers.
I personally guide my team in running back to get better ground/cover to fight. Fighting up hill is a hell to fight with projectile raining above you plus lower visibility. Knowing when and where to retrograde to make your fight better angle is a big plus side making life easier. This also allows easier flanking when fighting with Heavy unit with again, better visibility to take those out. As the video did say once the fight has begin, finish it before regroup or else it will get more chaotic and it becomes a '10 verse 1' situation.
this explains so much, im like why is highest level so much easier than lvl 6-7, its cause ppl at the highest level hold their ground, i've noticed when the squad moves there is a shoot and move too, one player holds till the start to be overwhelmed then the run to the squad which has run just a bit further away and are putting shots into the horde, its unspoken, and not every game is like this, but i notice this tactic a lot more at helldive difficulty. It also helps that at helldive we have someone wave clearing, and just by the nature of their role, they tend to be the last to move. Also i noticed everyone actually drops the reinforce 5 to 10 m away from them and the horde while positioning themselves near or inbetween the horde and the spawning player, which also is a good way to ensure the respawning player doesn't get one shot coming out of the pod. I will say, even if the chance to fail is higher, i like lvl 9 cause of the teamwork that goes on, most of the time unspoken which is also just wild to me.
There are very few enemies that can keep up with you, and even less that can both keep up and survive blind fire from your secondary. If you run, most enemies will not keep up, and simply killing the ones that do will make the rest give up and despawn.
You can not outrun Chargers and having to dodge them will make you unable to run from any other bug as well.
@@iron_side5674 When you hear them get close, do a 360 loop, and they will miss you completely, and not give enough time for even hunters to slow you down. If somehow they do, diving repeatedly will get you enough distance to just sprint away. Also, there's plenty of support weapons that take out chargers in no time.
Some amazing tips. Thanks 🙏
I hope it helps! Thanks for watching! ❤
Cluster bombs and orbital airburst are really good for this reason. I always take them and chuck them at dropships or bug breaches pretty quick. Running has it's place in certain scenarios but standing your ground is not the immediate death sentence people think it is. The important thing is goinf 100%, you either need to full effort kill the enemies, or full effort run away until you've lost the enemy. Either one can work the skill part is determining what action should be taken
Ayyyy, gotta love that diff 7 advice. Try standing your ground when you get a 7 ship bot drop with 5 hulks and factory striders. I must have missed the section that talked about patrol spawn _rate_ and area of influence heat generation. hmmm
Very informative! Thanks!! New sub here 🙂
In my experience when a situation divolves like this, staying in a pitched battle usually leads to more and more bugs and breaches joining the fight. With nobody running we just spend life after life fighting for no purpose. Leaving the situation together is almost always the smart option. At least in my experience.
disagreed with this at first, but then we gave it a shot and this works beautifully with a coordinated team. The problem is that randoms on 7 and up just run by default so I go stealth when I'm playing with randoms anyway. But with a team that buys into this. It makes 7 seem like a 5.
man the last stands or just moments when you split up and fight millions of bugs on your own are the best
Thanks for this video….. I will use this info when I can. It’s hard to do this when 1 player does missions -1 does s.m - 1 wants to work together- and the last 1 just shoots at everything. welcome to match making
Helldivers 2 has got to be one of the strangest cases for trolling ever, people will legit grab super samples and die in a pit. intentionally run to melee terminids while there's stratagems being called in on them just chill shooting the flamethrower at a wall of enemies with no self preservation in sight the worst one of all, punch you in the back of the head at the last moment before the evac leaves, leaving you behind.
OP: “Stand and fight!!!” Me with my 2 mags, 1 grenade having a staredown with 50hunters 20 warriors and 3 chargers: “Awesome”
Excellant video mate thank you
I'm a solo player just got the Hell Dive achievement last night, who mainly fights the clankers so run when you need too and fight like a Vietcong. Scout armor is your friend you don't always need to engage the enemy, the auto canon sentry,orbital laser, and ems mortar paired with the energy shield are my main strats especially against bots. On defense missions I run the small area prolonged barrage strat, toxic bomb, eagle airstrike, and either the orbital laser or jetpack. Pro tip some defense missions you can cheese by getting up on a high enough vantage point when against bots you can use these missions to farm requisition and medals.
Great info thank you
very good video. thanks a lot!
Dude, this video is suuuper helpful for a noob diver like myself. Thank you so much for sharing this. It may be common knowledge to many, but I've only been in the game for about a week. Edit: oh wow this actually makes the new booster much more clear. "Increases time between enemy encounters" was so confusing to me. But now after this video i understand it clearly.
It's not common knowledge, and a lot of folks will disagree with some of my takes because there's a common method that people use to exploit the spawn system. I don't feel that exploits that will likely be addressed via a patch have a place in a guide video however. I'm glad you found the video helpful! Thanks for watching.
Nice video, very well put together! Love how concise you made all the information, keep it up man
Thanks! ❤
Nice video. Confirmed a lot of my observations.
In theory what you say is correct, aggro *should* spread like a virus as enemies chasing you alert other enemies. But you ignore a couple key factors. Mainly just how fast line of sight can be broken and aggro can be lost, and how fast enemies will actually despawn once they dont know where you are anymore. Is this how i hope this game would work? Certainly not, but it's how it works. Anybody who plays in a small team knows that, by far, the missions that can go out of control the easiest are the ones in a small area where you cannot ever stop enemy reinforcement loops. Everything else is a walk in the park by comparison. If you can win the encounter and kill stuff faster than it appears, sure stand your ground. Otherwise dont be an idiot and run for it lol. No point sticking around to waste ressources if you can literally just get rid of all those enemies for free, other than a little time investment. So really, the decision should depend on whether or not the time and ressources spent disposing of the enemies and potential reinforcement loops is smaller or larger than the amount of time spend running away and coming back to a now empty objective. I think the wrong conclusion being reached here is mostly due to how inconsistant missions are in general. Some mission types are vastly harder than others in direct comparison, even more so if you dont run as a 4 people squad. But even in the very same difficulty, there is arbitrary difficulty spikes that make some missions on 5 feel worse than some missions on 9. Sometimes on 7 you barely stay awake and dont lose a single life since just nothing spawns.. while other times you literally drown in reinforcement loops while "standing your ground" which simply dont stop, ever, not even when there is no bugholes, nests or even patrols nearby. The game, as was correctly stated in the beginning, is completely opaque about a lot of things. And on others it even directly lies to you, like how some modifiers may claim 100% more call-in time.. but actually increasing things with 1 second call in time to the same 8 seconds of call in time something with 3 seconds of call in time gets. Then there is confusion between light, medium, heavy armor.. and light / medium vehicle armor.. aswell as guns claiming they do light penetration, but actually doing medium penetration, on top of confusing usage of terms like "explosive" (which sometimes means the trait, dealing more damage to fleshy parts, and sometimes actually explosive damage) and so on and so forth. Helldivers 2 is a great game.. but for the love of all that is good in the world, even the most indie releases i've ever played did a better job at actually distributing information to the players, and never have i felt more like the game is outright lying to me than when playing Helldivers 2. I digress. Point is, i have never, not once, had a case where an endless wave of enemies was following us while we moved locations (and actually tried to get rid of the enemies), as this video claims. I have however had countless experiences of endless reinforcement loops while trying to get shite done at some location. Occasionally without even having active bugholes or bug breeches around. Like, there is nothing, but enemies keep flooding in as if there is 10 active breeches while you try to extract or complete an objective. Resetting the encounter helps with this, if it's an option.
So I noticed that most of the time time they do not go into combat mode when you throw a red stratagem, if you do it while prone. If you are just standing behind a wall, they will almost always detect you, but even within line of sight, they often will not react at all if prone. So I think when the red stratagem lands, there is a check to see if they can hear you, at your current location. If they hear you they enter combat mode but if they don't, they don't even investigate. You you can sneak in and wipe out an entire group with an eagle strike, if you are stealthy enough.
Only issue with this is that if you throw a stratagem at enemies that spawn on an objective, theres a chance you will aggro certain enemies that have special stealth rules and they will know where you are immediately. Some enemies do not get distracted, and instead just aggro on you, and they never lose sight of you. It will look like you can break line of sight as they shoot where they last saw you, but as soon as you enter a place where they could get line of sight on you, they turn and start shooting at you again. Even if you move around behind them etc. Throwing any stratagems at these guys seems to blow your cover because of how they work, atleast with bots. I presume bugs have a similar kind of thing.
Ok. So, yes, this can definitely be an issue. But, it does depend on variable factors. Early in the mission, with lower numbers of patrols, and providing you stick together, AND you're wearing the "stealth" armor, running is the better option than fighting an unwinnable fight. You will lose the enemies very quickly. But to do this is situational and you need to be cohesive and smart. As to patrols, this is how they work.... Every player has an invisible timer. When the timer hits zero a patrol spawns. If 4 players are within 50 yards of each other it counts as one timer, if you split into two groups, it's two separate timers and so on. This timer shortens depending on 3 factors. 1. Completing or being near any MAIN mission objectives. 2. Clearing enemy bases, ie, nests or factories. 3. Evacuation NOTHING else increases enemy spawn rates, including mission time.
There's a balance. Digging in and fighting around objectives makes sense, but sitting around fighting all patrols and alerts on higher difficulties is a recipe for failure. Really good players know how to avoid damage while running/kiting, so a good team can dig in and defend an objective, but then also knows to start evacuating shortly after and escape combat without dying, and therefore not wasting 10 minutes and a bunch of ammo/reinforcements dying pointlessly in an area with no objectives remaining. The thing is, with efficient stamina usage and using terrain properly to impede enemy pathing and line of sight, you can break out of the combat phase fairly quickly against anything, including Bile Titans once they lose track of where you are. Being able to escape combat quickly is a skill issue for some players, and practicing it could help make their runs more efficient. A lot of us learned this from "medal farming" on helldive mode. We would just drop in the middle of the map and proceed to all run off in separate directions, agroing everything along the way, then running into objective areas brazenly and complete the objective in 10-15 seconds solo while agroing everything in the area, then proceeding to run to extract while kiting titans, chargers, killing stalkers, dodging dozens of hunters etc and then extracting with 0 deaths. Now I just take all that knowledge with me into suicide difficulty PUBs and I very rarely die, even if I'm just ditching patrols etc mid-map. I die most often defending objectives with the team than kiting anywhere else, especially alone.
Nah. Running is good for cardio, and my laser rover needs to eat! ❤
1:58 that orbital railgun had some beef with that charger. bro straight up went orbital
makes so much sense, whenever I play with friends I split up and go solo while the other 3 play together and I can usually take down 3-4 bases and objectives with stealth before I end up getting killed and brough back near them, and when they do were always completely surrounded by enemies. I honestly just assumed less bugs spawned near less players
Makes absolutely non-sense, as others have pointed out, this video is full of wrong bs. You need to run especially on higher difficulty or mission types destroy eggs/factories where you only get 15 minutes to do so.
@@Jason06245sure about that? I have played for 280 hours and playing like this are the only matches were I had a 100% run with nearly all samples and 0 death for the entire squad. Playing as a squad is the best and most intense and fun way running and kiting is literally so boring that I always leave the lobby’s since I capped out my stuff.
@@Jason06245 bot and bug sympathizer spotted to obscure and discredit valuable intelligence!
@harunmahdielmi5498 exactly this. I have a few friends who are "helldive veterans" and another group who are just naturally good gamers. The naturally good gamers are able to manage swarms and bug breeches so we have really good clears and 100% missions, and we play like the video says. The "helldive veterans" play the run and hide playstyle and meta build but achieve so much less that its hilarious.
@@Jason06245 my reply to you appears to have been 1984'ed...
I've been playing around with smoke for the last few weeks. it actually does an amazing job confusing enemies, drawing attention off you, and leaving them semi open to damage in combat as well as just being good for getting away. I'm a smoke main nowadays :3
Thanks for doing your part helldiver!
I have found that instead of running away, you should try to find high ground close to you. From there it is all about prioritizing targets. Jumpers first for instance.
dude what are you talking about. the dominant strategy that even pub lobbies mostly abide by nowadays is to sneak up to an objective, nuke it down with stratagems, then complete the objective as fast as possible then run away. the enemies will no stop spawning, you are not here to gain ground. you are here to fall out of the sky, blow up a factory, and run away. to do this the game gives you crazy burst damage abilities (stratagems) the entire war effort revolves around these untouchable weapons platforms (destroyers) dropping small teams all over the planet to crush the enemies logistics. NOT to take and hold ground or clear out enemy positions. we are not looking for a fair fight.